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Voyager Probes Give Us ET's View

astroengine writes "For the first time, scientists have been able to measure a type of radiation streaming out from the Milky Way that in other galaxies has been linked to the birthplaces of young, hot stars. There was no way to make our own galaxy's measurement of the radiation, known as Lyman-alpha, until the Voyager probes were about 40 times as far away from the sun as Earth — any closer and the solar system's own emissions drowned out the fainter glow from the galaxy."

39 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. For Science, of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pictures of young, hot, stars?! Count me in!

    1. Re:For Science, of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      As with most hot young stars, they do tend to cool quickly and their waistline expands as they run out of good, hot material. Eventually they can either have a big blowup or become small, not so hot, older stars when they begin using different materials.

      Damn. That sounded better in my head but the metaphor got a bit muddled. But, think stars, hydrogen, red giants, helium, novas, etc...

  2. So Cool... by steevven1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Voyager has to be the coolest space probe ever. It's been operating for 34 years straight and is LEAVING OUR GALAXY, still receiving commands from Earth and still transmitting data back. If that's not marvelous, I don't know what is. Anyone interested should read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

    1. Re:So Cool... by steevven1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Correction: solar system, not galaxy. D'oh!

    2. Re:So Cool... by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Voyager computers are awesome too. How many other 18-bit word systems are actively maintained today?

      I'd love to see the source code, though I'm sure it's terribly boring.

    3. Re:So Cool... by agentgonzo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Unfortunately not. Milky way's escape velocity is approx 525km/s (wikipedia) and voyager and our solar system are moving at approx 18km/s (Monty Python Song). Unless it happens to get flung out of the galaxy by the impending collision with Andromeda in 3-5 billion years it's not going to be leaving the Milky way anytime soon. It'll just float around in the vicinity of the solar system and go around the Milky way.

    4. Re:So Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Meanwhile my smartphone will be lucky to survive 34 months, and is only able to receive commands from Earth if I hold it out of an upstairs window...

      Out of interest, are there many computers down here on the planet that have been operating constantly for 34 years?

    5. Re:So Cool... by deroby · · Score: 3

      Ah, I was not aware of that. My bad.
      I simply assumed it would take a (ridiculous) amount of time but hadn't considered the required escape velocity of the Milky Way, nor the fact that the probe is just coasting...

      Damn, you DO learn something on /. now and then, I'll have to adapt my signature some day =)

      --
      If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
    6. Re:So Cool... by dtmos · · Score: 5, Funny

      I have personally seen 50's Univac and 60's IBM systems running

      Yes, but when? I, too, have personally seen 50's Univac and 60's IBM systems running.

      However, it was in the 50's and 60's.

    7. Re:So Cool... by flyingfsck · · Score: 5, Funny

      Cool, so you must also be in your 60s or 70s and still running...

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    8. Re:So Cool... by dtmos · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, and before you ask, I, too, have been receiving inquiries from museums.

  3. Impressive by PortaDiFerro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That must be one of the most successful space exploration projects so far, too bad it's running out of juice!

    1. Re:Impressive by niktemadur · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The distance at which the Voyagers are still collecting and transmitting useful data back to Earth, is mind boggling.
      Over a light day away!

      Back in 1989, when Voyager 2 flew past Neptune, the JPL command center was probably dismantled and refitted for the next glamor project, while the long final phase of the Voyager mission was relocated to a much tinier space, probably the basement, with a couple of old-school, hardcore Voyager geeks down there, living on Doritos, pizza and Usenet, a rickety AC rattling and slowly dripping water over a puddle, unfixed for months because the Maintenance Department is constantly needed up at Voyager's old stomping ground, kept immaculate for the Galileo probe people, or Cassini, or the Mars Rovers, whatever the Flavor Of The Lustrum was / is.

      Nice and quiet down there among the rusted ceiling pipes and aged Crays, though. They didn't bother nobody, nobody bothered them. Beer could be smuggled to work and no one would notice, everybody upstairs would be swooning over Neil DeGrasse Tyson filming a segment on Pluto and the Horizons mission. Only time anybody saw the strange Voyager geeks, was when they went up to the ground floor vending machines, as the supply guy always forgot to restock the one in the JPL basement, forgot there was one in the basement.

      Little did anybody know (except for these guys) that the Voyagers were like an aging boxer with one good fight left in them, very low bitrate coupled with an ultra-weak signal perhaps, but with still one final, grand potential payoff - a peek at the outside, which may end up being the longest lasting legacy of all.

      Look at it now bitches, it's on the other side of the heliopause!

      --
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    2. Re:Impressive by Kjella · · Score: 3, Informative

      The distance at which the Voyagers are still collecting and transmitting useful data back to Earth, is mind boggling. Over a light day away!

      Uh? 120 AU is only 0.7 light days. And if that's far depends on perspective, it's 0.05% of the way to the closest star. Somehow the Mars rovers have been a lot more visual in saying that yes, we can do interplanetary with their cameras. The Voyager probes are more of a reminder that interstellar is a completely different ballgame. Thirty three years and 18 billion kilometers out yet it's still gotten nowhere in interstellar terms. Though it's fun to see them still operational and still doing science...

      --
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  4. Re:30 years later... by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We could cheaply launch 10's of much faster probes with incrementally better sensors for the price of the voyager program (~$3B in today's dollars).

              I am not sure why you say that. The costs of space technology haven't changed much at all relative to the rate of inflation, and there haven't been any important breakthroughs in launchers. The only thing consequentially different is computer capability, but a faster/more complex computer would just as likely be a liability as a bonus. Software design techniques, if anything, have gone rapidly backwards for this sort of application since the late 70s/early 80s.

  5. Question About Voyager(s)... by steevven1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It receives commands from Earth, and it's 34 years old. What's to keep enemies of the United States from sending it bad instructions, or from collecting all data it sends back to us? I realize that Voyager isn't of any military importance, but I guess this is more of a hypothetical question. Does it use some type of encryption? Is that encryption still unbreakable today? The keys haven't been compromised after all this time? Just curious.

    1. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > What's to keep enemies of the United States from sending it bad instructions, or from collecting all data it sends back to us?

      The fact that they are so far away that talking or listening to the Voyagers _REQUIRES_ a POINTABLE satellite dish 70 fucking meters in diameter. Only three that big exist in the world, and guess who owns them?

      http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/news/profiles_dsn.html

    2. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by ETEQ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think it's encrypted, but I think the methods of encoding the transmissions are incredibly arcane and the formats for the data are nothing even approaching standard (standards for such things didn't exist back then). Probably more important is that the only radio receivers in the entire world that are capable of detecting its signal are run by NASA...

    3. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by Framboise · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In the linked article I didn't find that "only three" such antennae exist. The deep space network made of three big antennae is able to follow and control Voyager without interruption, but other isolated and big antennae exist and might be used to perturb the spacecrafts, probably with slight modifications.

      Germany has a 100 m radiotelescope (Effelsberg), UK a 76m one (Jodrell Bank), Australia a 64 m one (Parkes), and China builds a 300m equivalent one, FAST, to be ready in 2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_hundred_meter_Aperture_Spherical_Telescope).

         

    4. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by Kagura · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Obvious troll is obvious

      No... you're just dumb. I've always wondered this, too. Not just about Voyagers, but all space exploration probes. No states have an interest in sending these false commands, but I wonder if it is possible or practical.

      Edit: I just reread the grandparent's reply, and the way he posed the question makes him out to be an idiot. I won't suggest modding him up, but his question is at least valid. Anyone know about how secure communications with space probes is accomplished? :)

    5. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by Tastecicles · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's not just single large antennae that can be used to detect signals from Voyager.

      The VLA uses technology developed in Britain (actually, a quirk of physics) to use several small antennae to simulate one large antenna. You can do the same, using similar frequencies to those used for the Voyager downlink (2.3GHz), a few lengths of coaxial cable, some one and a half inch nails, and four feet of marine ply.

      1. Set two nails in the ply a set distance apart, call this distance D. You'll need this.
      2. Connect each nail to its own demodulator (AKA receiver), then connect the receivers to a phase correlator.
      3. Set the phase correlator to cycle the sinD differential between the two signals.
      4. Take the output to a computer for decoding.

      It is possible to do the phase correlation on the computer, or simply use the computer to record the signals from each receiver (forgetting about the phase correlator altogether) and combine them later. If you're dealing with streaming data (like you would be if using WiFi) you'll need a phase correlator* or set sinD as close to zero as you can get it (by setting the nails in the case of WiFi at multiples of 1.21"/30.734mm apart - as far apart as you can get them).

      *There is a way around this, but it also requires precise angle measurement. If you know which direction your signal is coming from, you can point your interferometer toward it (the elements set exactly perpendicular to the signal source so they receive the signal in precise phase alignment). It helps if the interferometer is mounted on a common axis as this does away with the need for a phase correlator.

      An improvement on this extremely simple design is the use of "cantennas" or other narrow-field antenna, which develops a narrow but high gain cone for the receiving antenna, making life a bit easier for finding the transmitter. If you want to get ambitious, the VLA uses 27 antennas, a 21+21+21km 3-way rail baseline, and several supercomputers.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    6. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by agentgonzo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's an interesting question, but regardless of whether anyone can theoretically crack the authorisation to upload commands to the Voyagers, I believe that it's only NASA's deep space network that can actually send the signals that far to be received by the probes.

    7. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by rimcrazy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not that anyone is probably interested but I worked in the group that made the radios that are in Voyager. I just missed working on those specific models but I worked on the next generation following those use on Voyager. Working there (Motorola GED) I worked close with NASA and was in the loop on all the programs, past and current that we were working on with NASA. What is really remarkable here is both Voyager probes have "failed" receivers on them. There was a problem with the capacitors that were used for the input loop bandwidth filters. These failed in such a manner as to cause the acquisition loop bandwidth to be a very narrow band instead of the intended wide band. NASA was able to recover using these radios by basically making an empirical model of each of the spacecraft. They did this when the spacecraft were relatively close to the earth and they could blast them with wideband signals to ensure acquisition. What they did with the model was to identify exactly how the on board xtals in the radio aged or varied with power and temp and then threw in compensation for age and doppler. With all of this data then then had a model that told them on such and such a date, the correct xmit frequency to use to put the carrier in the middle of the narrow band filter is X. They would dial it in, send it out and everything still worked. Actually a very clever fix for what would have been a disaster.

      --
      "TV, a medium as it is neither rare nor well done." Ernie Kovacs
    8. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by tibit · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's nothing to crack. An interplanetary mission is pretty much the ultimate in security through obscurity. You won't have a clue what to send until you get a backseat worth of documentation. That's all that's to it.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    9. Re:Question About Voyager(s)... by jcgam69 · · Score: 4, Informative

      On March 31, 2006, the amateur radio operators from AMSAT in Germany tracked and received radio waves from Voyager 1 using the 20-meter (66 ft) dish at Bochum with a long integration technique. Retrieved data was checked and verified against data from the Deep Space Network station at Madrid, Spain.[22] This is believed to be the first such tracking of Voyager 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

  6. Re:30 years later... by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Software design techniques, if anything, have gone rapidly backwards for this sort of application since the late 70s/early 80s.

    I'd say the Mars rovers are a good counterexample of that, they're "new" and have been operating for many, many years now. Particularly when it comes to data compression the current probes have a huge leg up on the old ones. That said, yeah computers can't rewrite physics and launching anything into space is still quite expensive and they don't really go faster from it either.

    --
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  7. Re:30 years later... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If we build the probe from neutrinos we could possibly launch it faster than light. And get the results a few years ago.
    If we had known to listen to them, that is.

  8. Re:30 years later... by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Launched today they would not do much .... they relied on a chance alignment of the planets that allowed them to use gravitational slingshots to get there in a reasonable time, tour most of the planets, and leave the solar system ... next time this will happen is around 2150 ...

    --
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  9. Re:30 years later... by Tastecicles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Oh, I don't know... electrostatic ion propulsion is already proven to be more efficient than ordinary chemical propulsion (once you get out of the gravity well).

    As long as you have fuel, you'll keep accelerating, albeit at a very small rate. It might take ten or twenty years, but I reckon that if an ESI probe was launched tomorrow it'd overtake Voyager and still have propellant to go faster.

    The bonus is with computer technology; that while it's gotten thousands of times faster in practically every respect, it's also gotten a lot smaller - a non-hardened computer package these days weighs no more than 3lb, with terrestrial ruggedised coming in at little more. The advantage of this is obvious: with the single biggest non-fuel component of the spacecraft now the size of a paperback, you have far less mass to push.

    Of course, you don't need a screen or a keyboard in deep space, so cut the weight in half and you've got something a smidge lighter than the several hundred pounds of GE custom machine that went up with Voyager, that has its own battery, that pulls about ten Watts rather than over a hundred, that uses solid state storage, and in most cases can automagically govern its own power load (this would be why the later Shuttle missions used self-contained laptops rather than a room full of mathematicians and radio that meant data moved at the speed of speech) - I've metered my netbook off the line and found it runs on between 3-35W, averaging 11, including the screen on minimum brightness.

    That said, you do need to protect the computer against hard radiation. That will obviously push the weight up, but not so much as to make it unmanageable. A couple or three pounds of lead and a steel cage to protect against EMI/RFI I think is all that is needed. The major part of the probe is then going to be propulsion systems and fuel, and the science package.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  10. Re:30 years later... by khallow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The costs of space technology haven't changed much at all relative to the rate of inflation

    When you get away from government projects and missions you find an interesting thing. They've gone down in absolute dollars. It's not rare to find private analogues which cost an order of magnitude or more less than the government counterpart.

    For example, prior to the early 80s, there was no commercial space flight of any sort. When it first opened up with offerings from Arianespace, Boeing, and Lockheed, prices were on the order of $20k per kg (to low Earth orbit or "LEO"), a bit better than the Space Shuttle. Now there's perhaps a dozen private space launch providers, some offering flight costs well under $10k per kg. So we've gone from $20k per kg in 80s dollars to under $10k per kg in today's dollars. And if SpaceX delivers, we'll be hitting $5k per kg (in today's dollars), perhaps less. The Russians have a good chance of meeting that price point as well.

    It'll never be a Moore's Law thing, but we are seeing a remarkable long term decline in launch costs over a few decades. So no breakthrough in launch technology (with the exception of the creation of commercial space flight in the 80s and the possible exception of SpaceX now) yet we still manage to drop prices considerably even before adjusting for inflation.

    Second, there are great economies of scale in launching tens of probes. For example, R&D is divided up over a large number of probes. There are learning curve effects from building tens of probes and part costs will go down. Now maybe building a Voyager-level vehicle wouldn't be as cheap as the original poster claimed, but I bet $3 billion can buy a lot of interstellar probes, just the same. Especially, if one cuts out the slick tools that Voyager used for its planet flybys, but which weren't used for the interstellar portion of the mission (such as the imaging cameras).

  11. Re:30 years later... by amRadioHed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They wouldn't be using state of the art chips, but even the old radiation hardened chips needed for space travel would be an big improvement over 30 year old technology.

    Probably the biggest improvement would be in propulsion. Isn't this the exact sort of mission the new ion propulsion systems would be perfect for?

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  12. Re:30 years later... by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Informative

    The only thing consequentially different is computer capability, but a faster/more complex computer would just as likely be a liability as a bonus. Software design techniques, if anything, have gone rapidly backwards for this sort of application since the late 70s/early 80s.

    Thankfully, some of our/your assumptions about space technology are currently being proven wrong. For instance, take the Nexus One. NASA has been testing it to see if it could make cheaper smaller satellites with it, and its performance in that regard has been completely outstanding.

    Granted, it hasn't survived 30 years in space yet, only time will tell on that one.

    But it can survive in all kinds of extreme temperatures, all kinds of G forces, and it works perfectly well in a vacuum. And it's so small to begin with, the extra hardware it needs to power it, recharge it, move it, etc, doesn't have to be that big to begin with.

    During one of its space test, the Nexus One was even strapped to the tip of a rocket and the rocket accidentally crashed back into the desert leaving a large crater, but the phone only got a cracked screen and was still fully functional otherwise.

    And this is probably something that's not unique to that phone, or to Android, in particular. Consumer-grade devices, because they've been designed to survive actual consumers and sometimes even little kids, have come a long way in terms of reliability.

    And granted, a Nexus One will still have bugs that would normally be intolerable in the older type of computers designed for space, but it has enough computing power to be reprogrammed remotely and compensate for most bugs that are found after the fact. And since they take much less space and weight, and are much cheaper to launch. You can launch half a dozen for a fraction of the cost it used to launch an older type of satellite, thus building a type of redundancy that we just couldn't afford to have with the older kind.

    So if anything needs to improve, it's probably not our technology, but our mindset. We have good technology. That technology may not be perfect, but it should be more than good enough for unmanned space exploration at least. And it's grand time we start using it for that purpose.

  13. 40 times as far away? by agentgonzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Last I heard, the voyagers are about 100-110 AUs from the sun. Is the summary incorrect or do you only need to be 40 AUs from the sun to make these measurments? In which case, why is it news now and not in the 80s/90s when they reached this distance?

    1. Re:40 times as far away? by Shadowmist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Last I heard, the voyagers are about 100-110 AUs from the sun. Is the summary incorrect or do you only need to be 40 AUs from the sun to make these measurments? In which case, why is it news now and not in the 80s/90s when they reached this distance?

      Presumably because it's only recently that they discovered techniques to make these observations with the remaining equipment on board. Voyager is now making measurements it was never designed to. Keep in mind that the engineers who built these ships did not expect them to last as long as they did, nor that we would still be able to get useful signal strength from them at this point. Also remember that with the twin factors of half life decay and thermocouple degradation, they're only getting about half the power from the RTG's that they used to, so some equipment has had to have been permanently turned off.

  14. Um, no. by dtmos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You're confusing antenna angular resolution with antenna effective area. The problem with reception of the Voyager probes isn't being able to discern them among other relevant signals. The problem is that the signals are so weak that they need an antenna with large area just to collect enough energy per bit to reliably overcome noise generated in the receiving system. Until you do this, you can't get a signal strong enough for your correlator to work on -- all you'll get out of the correlator is noise, because that's all that's going in to the correlator from your receivers.

    Ergo, the 70m dishes.

  15. Re:30 years later... by Muad'Dave · · Score: 4, Informative

    A couple or three pounds of lead and a steel cage to protect against EMI/RFI I think is all that is needed.

    At the high gamma energies found in space, lead is no better than aluminum as a gamma shield, and both are pretty anemic. 1 cm of either will attenuate high energy gamma rays by only about 50-70%.

    --
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  16. Re:ET's View by dtmos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This seems to be a pretty good description of the Voyager telecom system. Based on this, the X-band transmitter provides 18 watts to the high-gain antenna, which has a gain of 48 dB, for an effective radiated power of just over 18 * 10^(48/10) = 1.1 megawatts. (At least at launch; I assume the output power will have fallen somewhat over the intervening decades, as the RTG output falls and RF components age.)

    This sounds like a healthy amount of power, and it is, but keep in mind that antenna gain comes easy at X-band (8 GHz), and such ERP levels are common in terrestrial point-to-point microwave links. Also keep in mind that the half-power beamwidth of the high-gain antenna is only 0.5 degrees, so any alien not in that narrow beam would hear substantially nothing.

    Also, to answer your direct question, the frequencies and beam shapes are different, and one has to consider the shielding effects of the ionosphere vs. frequency, but just to compare (US regulations, YMMV): AM broadcast stations (~1 MHz) are usually limited to 10 kW with more-or-less 0 dB gain antennas, for an ERP of 10 kW; but UHF TV stations (~500 MHz) may have an ERP of up to 5 MW.

    Of course, there are a zillion broadcast stations, all transmitting non-coherently (some would say incoherently), but only two Voyagers, so that would have to be taken into account, too.

  17. Re:30 years later... by Tastecicles · · Score: 3, Informative

    ESI is the way (as I said, sans gravity well effects), generation of electrical power is somebody else's problem. As you've pointed out, solar is useless as a source for deep space probes; self contained generation of power is the only option, and right now all we have is RTG. This is what ion engines have used in every practical application so far (examples that spring to mind are SERT I and II, and DS1) and until something better comes along, it'll continue to be a sink for RTGs in deep space exploration. As to your claim that there are no RTGs available: I could build a crude but functional one in about five minutes (if I had a pellet of [insert name of suitable isotope here]), and it's not as if we're short of radioisotopes suited for the task. The problem lies in a particular nation state unilaterally and unjustifiably denying any other from possessing any quantity of refined radioisotopes for any reason other than the manufacture of smoke alarms. That nation state continues to throw RTGs all over the Arctic in the name of science and monitoring the military movements of others without the need to lay thousands of miles of power lines, and there is far more than the Apollo 13 RTG sitting at the bottom of the ocean - the Atlantic passive SOSUS net buoys are all RTG powered (there is very little sunlight three miles underwater).

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  18. Re:30 years later... by dmatos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is indeed correct. Radiation hard electronics are created at the microchip layout and design level, rather than with external shielding. It requires an understanding of the damage that occurs from ionizing radiation and high-energy particles, and implementing device layouts that are tolerant of that damage.

    Let me give you a little hint: current generation designs with tiny FETs and low voltage drivers cannot operate for very long when the gate Vts start to shift.

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