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Interpreting the Constitution In the Digital Era

oik writes "NPR's Fresh Air this week had an interesting interview with Jeffrey Rosen, one of the authors of Constitution 3.0 , which addresses a number of issues to do with interpreting the US Constitution in the face of new technologies (both present and future). Many of the topics which he touches on come up on Slashdot a lot (including the GPS tracking cases). It's well worth listening to the program (link in the main page), of which the linked article is just a summary."

17 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. The real issue by Baldrson · · Score: 5, Interesting
    If you are really interested in issues of Constitutionality and electronic technology, the issue most relevant to the original intent of the US Constitution was the establishment of de facto censorship of free speech created by the broadcast networks under the licensing authority of the Federal government. The broadcast licenses thereby issued allows public discourse to be limited to the range of issues and opinion determined by central authorities far from the citizens they were to "inform".

    No tyrant in history was ever able to grab such power and the effect over the 20th century has been absolutely devastating to the United States. Even today, with the increasing disintermediation (and consequent slow recovery of freedom) of information, you still have public opinion being molded by the likes of Jeffrey Rosen and NPR. Indeed, no candidate seeking public office at the Federal level has had a hope of winning that office without the support of the broadcast networks, whose unconstitutionality is so ignored by Jeffrey Rosen and NPR (for obvious reasons).

    1. Re:The real issue by Xanny · · Score: 5, Informative

      The power of media is just part of a recurring theme of politicians just ignoring the constitution and putting Supreme Court judges in place to keep whatever backwards legislation they pass as law.

      If all three branches of government are controlled by private media dollars, there are no checks and balances left, and there is no way to enforce the constitution if all the branches are taken out of the picture like they are right now.

      I mean that is the main reason for OWS, getting corporate influence out of government. The real solution is to really understand what the constitution was for - it was just a document to unify the states under a common base law. That was the reason for the 10th amendment. The states should be handling almost everything the fed is right now, and through financial mobility anyone disenfranchised with a given state could move to one that better suits their political ideology. The problem is that states have become irrelevant as amendments like direct voting of senators came about removing the states from the federal level.

      It really is just a side effect of the top down politics when they should be bottom up - new ideas of political discourse should come from local attempts at new ideas and good ideas should build up across districts into state laws, and eventually if everyone starts doing the same thing it might become national law. The way it is now is just backwards

    2. Re:The real issue by anagama · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Here's a real gem from Obama's position on the law:

      Moreover, applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets. We have spent ten years since September 11, 2001, breaking down the walls between intelligence, military, and law enforcement professionals; Congress should not now rebuild those walls and unnecessarily make the job of preventing terrorist attacks more difficult.

      In other words, Obama is saying "Bush, Cheney, and I have managed to get get around constitution for the last decade. If you pass this bill, you jeopardize all that hard work."

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:The real issue by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please, look at the name of our nation again. United STATES of America. Like Pete Venkman already said, a bunch of free and independent states united together for mutual support. I don't recall where in my history books that the states abdicated their rights, in deference to the Corporate American Empire. I guess it was around the time that the federal government decided to expand interstate commerce laws. (not all of the fed's interstate commerce regulations are wrong, just as not all of them are right)

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    4. Re:The real issue by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

      United STATES of America.

      One of those interesting bits of historical trivia - before the Civil War, "United States" was plural ("these United States"). Afterwards, it was singular ("the United States").

      Which should give you a clue how the Founders intended things.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  2. Why would you want to interpret the constitution? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When you can simply ignore it.

    It's not as if there are any repercussions.
     

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    Deleted
  3. KSR's Mars trilogy make me think about the now by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While the political themes of Kim Stanley Robinson's trilogy beginning with Red Mars have divided readers, I found the constitutional debates within to be fascinating. The settlers of Mars come together in a constitutional convention that takes new, present-day technology and ecological themes into account, and examine a far larger set of models of political organization than the American Founding Fathers knew about. Junking it all and starting from scratch seems like a wonderful opportunity. Ever since I read those books in the mid-1990s, I've felt sad that not only is American democracy co-opted by special interests and the inevitability of a stagnant two-party system, but even at best it would be limited to a late 18th-century worldview.

    1. Re:KSR's Mars trilogy make me think about the now by hort_wort · · Score: 4, Informative

      ... I've felt sad that not only is American democracy co-opted by special interests and the inevitability of a stagnant two-party system, but even at best it would be limited to a late 18th-century worldview.

      It'll make you even more sad to find out that Thomas Jefferson believed the Constitution should be scrapped and rewritten every 19 years, a new set of rules that each generation decides for itself to follow. All the modern politicians that talk about the founding fathers tend to skip over that point.

      You're welcome. :-\

  4. constitutional interpretation by doug141 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One thing I always found interesting about constitutional interpretation is that the same people who argue the 2nd amendment should only apply to muskets (on the basis that the writers of the constitution supposedly could not have imagined anyone ever designing what they all wanted... a gun that shoots faster and further), will turn right around and assert the first amendment has a wide reach with respect to electronic mass media. Electronic mass media... like that was easier for a colonist to see coming than a rifle upgrade.

    1. Re:constitutional interpretation by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, there are two reasons for that. The primary reason that the Constitution is "underdetermined" is because it was a document designed to limit the power of government. Many of the issues that people think the Constitution does not speak clearly enough on are issues that the Framers considered to be things that the Federal government should not be involved in. The second was that the Framers intended that those who followed them should amend the Constitution as needed to address new issues.
      For the most part though, I believe that the "problems" you see in the Constitution result from the attempts to twist it to allow the federal government to do things the Framers thought they had explicitly denied it the power to do.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  5. Re:Interpret? Your doing it wrong. by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thats where you went wrong... there is no such thing.

    All texts require interpretation. No human utterance is unambiguous. This has been understood for over a century now, since Saussure proposed l'arbitraire du signe. Science, bitches.

  6. Usurping power by subverting the Constitution by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is the real problem - 'interpreting' the Constitution.

    There should be no such thing, no 'interpreting', because this is used to justify anything, any power grab, any expansion of gov't power, any kind of thing that gov't wants.

    You know it's true, they interpret Bibles the way they want to fit in any new technological advancement and same becomes a problem with the Constitution. It's not supposed to be interpreted, it's supposed to be followed. It's the law.

    It's not the Constitution that needs interpretation (and I am not saying the document is perfect, far from it, it is not making it explicit that it shouldn't be interpreted for example).

    The law that applies to the private citizens is not interpreted - you kill somebody - there is no 'interpretation' of the law. The question is only of your guilt.

    It should be same with the Constitution - gov't takes over some power, the question is only the amount of guilt that should be allocated, not whether it was permitted by the Constitution that this power was supposed to be taken over.

    There is a larger question here as well - should gov't even be allowed to pass NEW laws at all? I don't think so.

    If the physics laws were changing all the time (F=MA today, some time from today it's F=2MA, some time later it's F=A; E=MC2, E=MC, E=C, E=4C; Today Hydrogen has this mass, tomorrow it's half that.) There would be no stars, no planets, no life in that unstable system.

    Same with society and economy and gov't. Gov't sets the basic laws and then society and economy work around those laws. Change the laws and economy/society now must change how it works to accommodate the change of laws. Do too much of this and enough times and you destroy the economy and society.

    That's what you have now - destruction of economy and society by gov't.

    This was caused by various loose 'interpretations' of the Constitution (at first), and now it's just blatant disregard to the Constitution, which is LAW that gov't is supposed to abide by.

    This is your fundamental problem.

    1. Re:Usurping power by subverting the Constitution by LocalH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is a larger question here as well - should gov't even be allowed to pass NEW laws at all? I don't think so.

      The problem isn't new laws, it's that they exceed their authorization to pass laws covering certain things. The Interstate Commerce Clause basically turned into the legal equivalent of a rootkit when it can cover activities that are fully intrastate, merely because they can "affect" interstate actions. That little bit of legal wrangling pretty much guts the 9th and 10th, from a practical standpoint. If a person is too "self-sufficient", that means they are affecting the interstate market for various things and must be stopped (see Wickard v Filburn).

      --
      FC Closer
  7. Easiest and safest interpretation by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll make it easy. Stick with the traditional interpretation and follow it like plain language. If you treat the Constitution as a list of government permissions and not a set of restrictions, and ditch the attempts to interpret the enumerated rights as somehow limiting anything not mentioned...

    The Constitution is VERY easy to interpret when you are trying to argue on the behalf of freedom. The only time you need a crack lawyer to argue an interpretation is when you are trying to present an interpretation that seeks to limit freedom.

    Some argue that such a simple approach is flawed as it would prevent the government from performing functions that we want them to do such as the EPA, Dept of Ed., etc. That is not true because for anything so important and universal that it requires the federal government, then we need to go through the effort to amend the constitution to grant the government the authority to do that. If it really is that important then passing the amendment will happen. If it doesnt pass that means you either were proposing something that more people than you didn't want, or you need to spend more time convincing people that they want the government to do what you say they should do.

    Imagine you hire someone to repair a wall in your house. While he is working he sees you have a broken window and decides that you would be better off and fixes the window of his own volition. What he didn't know is that you were going to build an addition and the window was being removed anyway.

    The repairman exceeded his authority and even though he was doing something 'good', but the right way to do it would be to ask you to amend his contract to grant him the authority to fix the window in addition to the wall.

    Sure, its harder, but hat process ensures that you have to 'opt in' to increased government rather than the easier method that requires us to actively 'opt out' by continually passing new 'protections' each time the government figures a way around the old protections.

    --
    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  8. I'm afraid of what we'd lose. by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can bet the Second Amendment would be gone. That's the lynchpin keeping all the other ones in place. On another note, the constitution doesn't need to be recreated. The founders created a clear method for amending it, which has happened over two dozen times now.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  9. Papers and effects by Compaqt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What part of "papers and effects" don't they understand?

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Your computer (and phone) is as much your "papers" as the media is a "press".

    What right did they get to GPS-track you? Isn't your car an "effect"? Even if not, it still is your property. So where did the government get the right to use your property without due process of law (5th amendment)?

    Where'd the government get the right to confiscate servers? Domain names? Where's the due process of law?

    The constitutional view is that the government only has such powers as have specifically been given to it. The state's view is that they have plenary (unlimited) power until stopped by a greater power.

    A Constitution 3.0 would not be needed if there were a proper perspective on the existing constitution.

    Read the link for the Federalist Papers, the Antifederalist Papers, and more.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  10. Re:It's the pledge week question by heypete · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The loss of government funding wouldn't dramatically affect NPR itself (about 7% comes from "grants and contributions"). The largest single source (34%) of their funding comes from station programming fees.

    However, it would affect many of the local public radio stations that re-broadcast NPR (and which, in turn, pay NPR for programming fees). According to this site, 16.4% of the average public radio station's funding comes from government funding and grants from the Corporation from Public Broadcasting. About 14.3% of a public radio station's funding comes from universities, which frequently get income from the feds.

    Without funding from the government, many public radio stations would have insufficient funds to continue to operate and would need to close down. NPR would likely be able to continue without much trouble, but local radio stations that actually provide services to their local community would be shut down.

    Many of the pledge weeks are for the local stations to raise funding, not for NPR itself (though the NPR radio staff often record "Give $local_station_name money!" ads for the stations).