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Are You Better At Math Than a 4th (or 10th) Grader?
New submitter newslash.formatb points to this Washington Post blog post, which "discusses the National Assessment of Educational Progress test (specifically, the math part). One of the school board members took it and was unable to answer any of the 60 math questions, though he guessed correctly on 10 of them. He then goes on to claim that the math isn't relevant to many people. P.S. — if you want to feel like Einstein, check out some sample questions." Maybe this is mostly about the kind of life skills that are sufficient to succeed in management.
One of the school board members took it and was unable to answer any of the 60 math questions, though he guessed correctly on 10 of them.
Wait.
Even a gorilla could have got 15/60. It's probability 101. (And a rather sensible assumption that all questions had 4 options)
Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
That wasn't from the same test - it was from a test for 4th graders. But if you need a calculator for that problem (esp given the multiple choice answers), you probably didn't do well in math.
I guess the thing that bugs me about this story is that this administrator concluded that since he was a successful paper-pusher and didn't need to know that stuff, the problem was that the math test was too hard. I would suggest that you give the same test to a set of scientists and engineers and see how they do before one can draw that conclusion.
The test that the school board person took was for tenth graders. The sample questions linked are from two entirely different tests. The first three are for fourth graders and the second three are for eighth graders.
It was a different test. The one he took was the 10th grade version. The one in the summary is 3 sample questions from each of the 4th and 8th grade tests
That is why I have an engineering degree from a world class university and this guy is a Teacher.
This guy is not a teacher. He was a teacher, but he is a school board member. He's an elected politician, and has been for 15 years. He's the guy who sets policy for the principals and teachers.
Worthy caveat: the test he failed was for 10th graders. The "test" linked in the summary was for 4th and 8th graders. The blog makes the point that kids do very well on their 4th adn 8th grade tests, but miraculously become "stupid" and fail their 10th grade tests.
Everyone makes life changing decisions that involve maths - quite advanced math, at that - regularly. For instance, take this type of question:
Deadly disease X has a prevalence of 1 in 10,000. Consuming substance A reduces your risk by 80%. Deadly disease Y has a prevalence of 1 in 500. NOT consuming substance A reduces your risk by 20%. If this is all that is involved, should you or should you not consume substance A?
Many decisions we make involve things like this. If one lacks the ability to reduce the maths, how can one live?
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
Tests from 2005 to 2007 are available at http://fcat.fldoe.org/fcatrelease.asp
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There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
I am pretty sure we had a professional wrestler as the govenor of another state in the last 15 years.
Jesse Ventura was the governor of Minnesota.
You must be a youngster. You forgot about the movie star that was in charge of California for several years...then was in charge of THE COUNTRY.
We all need to see Being There again (or, for the first time)...
Twelve-and-three-quarter inches. Unyielding. This wand belonged to Bellatrix Lestrange.
First, they cite the wrong exam. This school board member was not complaining about the National Assessment of Educational Progress test, but rather the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, or FCAT. (The NAEP test adjusts the skill level of its questions on the fly as you're taking the exam, and returns a score that is percentile-based. I'd actually like to see what this board member scores on the NAEP...it's a very good metric that can be used to measure one's skill level, and is not biased or corrupted by political influence.)
Second, the sample questions are misleading. Not only are they "4th grade" & "8th grade" leveled questions (not the 10th grade exam that this board member was complaining about), but even those questions are not as difficult as you will commonly find on a state exam. If you want to see the types of questions on the FCAT, you can look at the item sampler here.
I work in Education up in Minnesota. As you can see on page 13 of this report, there is a downward trend across grade levels in "percent proficiency." While the average joe might conclude that most 3rd grade teachers are fantastic while most 11th grade math teachers need to be fired, the skeptic while (rightfully) question the validity of the test. For example, on that table, you'll see that all the 2011 results are about 10-12% lower than their previous years (except the 11th grade). That's because, in 3rd - 8th grade that year, the state moved to a newer, more difficult exam which emphasizes heavier Algebraic understanding (with completion of Algebra I by 8th grade). Because the standards became more difficult, scores dropped. But the uninformed Joe would just conclude that teachers are getting lazier and use these results as a way to blame schools for not doing their job. (These changes to the standards have not affected the 11th grade yet, but will in two more years.)
I personally coached students for and administered the 11th grade exam last year at my school. The questions on the exam are not simple. Rather than throw traditional skill-based questions at you, the questions are worded in a very complex manner, requiring a deep level of understanding of the skills required to solve the problem in order to recognize which skills are required to solve the problem, much like that FCAT exam I linked to above. This test is not a valid metric of what students know or don't know; I saw one student personally who had no problems with the worksheets I provided him during our coaching sessions, but bombed the exam, not because he was stupid, but because he gets severe test anxiety. Other students told me that they just didn't understand what many of the questions were asking them to calculate.
The upper-level state exams are engineered to fail students, so that schools can be labeled failures. Particular politicians want schools to appear as though they are not doing a good job, to validate the privatization of our educational system. While you hear the expression "raising the bar," what they are really doing is increasing the failure rate. It's absurd what kids are being asked to accomplish; cognitive science has shown that what kindergartners and 1st grade students really should be doing is playing and reading, and we're trying to sit them down and teach them Algebra skills. (If you don't believe me, ask a 1st grade teacher in the state of Minnesota...even 1st grade standards now are engineered to incorporate "Algebraic thinking".) It's downright ludicrous, and it's all a political game.
This is true of standardized reading tests, and as an analytical-minded person with good math skills, this always troubled me about these tests. Many times there is more than 1 correct answer, and you have to somehow make a judgment as to which is most correct. Whether this comes from intuition, ability to weigh qualitative factors on the fly, or taking a lot of practice tests, it's not a skill that comes easily for many people. It's not just with reading comprehension but also in grammar questions, where there are no clear grammatical errors, but one choice of phrasing is supposed to be "better" than another option that can also be perfectly acceptable.
The test he took was the 10th grade one. The article says the example questions come from the 4th and 8th grade tests.
Right. Plus, he took the FCAT, but the article links to NAEP questions.
There are sample FCAT questions here: http://fcat.fldoe.org/pdf/sample/1011/math/FL522267_Gr10_Mth_TB_WT_r3g.pdf
Much harder and not the kind of math most people are doing as adults. The guy's point is that the test is bad and the math is disconnected from the math you really need in the world. He's got a point.
And it seems that we will go back to the days of unfettered capitalism where children will be forced to work and stop being "such a burden on society". Read Charles Dickens for examples of such a Libertarian paradise.
No sig for the moment.
The school board member took a test for tenth graders. The sample questions are for fourth and eighth graders. The impression given by submitter and editor is not supported by the evidence presented.
It should be illegal to say that freedom of speech should be limited.