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Running Tor On Your TV

Posted by timothy on from the blender-seems-the-obvious-choice dept.

jaromil writes "TorTV is an early effort to embed Tor in household computing: run it on your TV at home. So far only WDTV installed with the homebrew WDLXTV firmware is supported. What other platforms do you think are viable for it?"

44 of 80 comments (clear)

  1. Re:FIRST POST! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Maybe you would had got it if you didn't use Tor...

  2. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OK, let's get the obvious question out of the way: Why would I want to run Tor on my TV? Honestly, I don't get why. I don't see anywhere on the site that explains why it would be a good thing for me to run my TV on the Tor network.

    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, there is the, "Because I can" factor. But it also could provide some interesting safety measures when using a built-in browser on some televisions. Yes, there are televisions with a web browser. Why? Because some people like the idea.

    2. Re:Huh? by wiedzmin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guess so you can host an always-on exit node, without having to keep your laptop on? Can this do exit nodes?

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
    3. Re:Huh? by Al_Lapalme · · Score: 2

      Some TV's come with Netflix and (as mentioned by another user) web browsers. A lot of content out there is limited to specific countries; for example most Canadian TV networks (comedy network, space, etc) have TV shows available for viewing but locked to Canadian IPs; likewise for American networks and American IPs. Netflix, Amazon, etc, all do the same. If you could choose an exit node in any given country, you'd effectively have a nice proxy for these geographically locked services.

      --
      Al
    4. Re:Huh? by wiedzmin · · Score: 2

      Also, I assume this can work with TV screen off?

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
    5. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      have you ever used tor ? its slower than a hayes 14.4k modem over a crappy phone line. and thats for web browsing, not media.

    6. Re:Huh? by v1 · · Score: 2

      Even so, of all the computers in your house, this is the oddest choice for using as a router. Why not .. um .. your router?

      To take some of the load off your other hardware maybe. Though the router is where a LOT of things would make more sense to run if you could - bittorrent for example. no needing to deal with one computer on your network trying to bury your router with connections.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    7. Re:Huh? by DarthBart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, my router routes. The closest thing to a service that it provides is NAT. I don't worry about it getting buried in connections because I bought a router (Cisco 881 at a surplus yard) that would stand up to the abuse I throw at it.

    8. Re:Huh? by InsightIn140Bytes · · Score: 1

      Tor is way too slow for streaming.

    9. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So that nobody can tell that you're browsing child porn in your living room, of course.

    10. Re:Huh? by jaromil · · Score: 1

      If you visit Asia you might notice it: the only electrical household that everyone has is a TV, even in absence of any other basic furniture.

    11. Re:Huh? by jc79 · · Score: 1

      But if everybody's TV was a Tor relay node, then it would be way fast. This is why Tor-on-TV (or Tor-on-toaster) is a Good Thing. These relays don't need to be exit nodes.

    12. Re:Huh? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      why the hell would you download danceing with the stars?

      So you can not watch the whole series all at once.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    13. Re:Huh? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Yes, there are televisions with a web browser. Why? Because some people like the idea.

      I like the idea; I have a computer plugged into my TV. With that setup I have no use for cable at all; most of the channels are on Hulu, most of the networks stream their shows from their websites, and I don't actually have to be in front of the TV at 7:00 Thursday night to see BBT. All I have to do is log on to CBS's web site and get the latest stream. It's like having a DVR and not having to take the bother to set it up for recording.

      --
      Free Martian Whores!
  3. Re:FIRST POST! by Nimey · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Just seconds behind the first person to use that joke. Maybe if you didn't use Tor...

    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
  4. Router by burningcpu · · Score: 1

    Can you throw that shit on a replacement firmware for some of the higher end but still consumer level routers?

  5. Speaking of WDTV... by LanMan04 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just grabbed the newest version, the WDTV Live Streaming Server "Gen 3", which is essentially the "Hub" product without the internal hard drive.

    Will WDXLTV be available for this model ever? If so, do I really care? It plays *everything* I throw at it...so what else does XL do, other than being a torrent/usenet client?

    --
    With the first link, the chain is forged.
    1. Re:Speaking of WDTV... by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      I presume you mean all Xerox copier and printers produced in the last year? Many of the Xerox products I've used predate Linux, let alone VNC and Ogg. Of course, they also predate LCD screens with informational videos....

      I do think it's nifty that Xerox was able to produce something using some of its own tech though... who knew VNC would be useful for anything beyond the XEROX Parc mobile desktop?

    2. Re:Speaking of WDTV... by iamwahoo2 · · Score: 1

      I think torrent/usenet is probably the big thing. I think there was one hack that allowed you to send remote control commands to the device via the network, which would be cool if you wanted to control the device through a smart phone or tablet device.

    3. Re:Speaking of WDTV... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      That was the idea behind DLNA, but during design the tech grew so complicated (In large part due to every company involved demanding their own patented technology be made a requirement) that it became impossible to get it to work.

    4. Re:Speaking of WDTV... by dobster · · Score: 1

      ... can connect my 6 2TB drives (and more) ... can keep track of what I watched (MediaMark) ... superior MediaNavigator ... and a zilion other things. Oh, and it is LX and not XL

    5. Re:Speaking of WDTV... by jaromil · · Score: 1

      For sending remote commands UPNP-AV is there as ... yet another standard. Here an implementation I'm busy with http://syncstarter.org/avremote

  6. Re:yawn by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    the fatties got ripped apart by the zombies first

    Same thing happened on Zombieland too

  7. Re:yawn by oodaloop · · Score: 3, Funny

    What the hell are you two talking about? Shaun's fit roommate got bit early in the movie, and the fat one made it to the end.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  8. Raspberry Pi ? by billstewart · · Score: 2

    I'm putting this under the "toaster" comment not only because of the traditional usage of "toaster" to refer to any small machine (there have been actual toasters running NetBSD for years...) but because you might alternatively want to put Raspberry PopTarts in your toaster, and I need to make it clear that you shouldn't put Raspberry Pi in your toaster, even if it is RoHS-compliant.

    But a Raspberry Pi computer is designed to attach to your TV, works fine with TVs that don't already have web-toasters built in, is something you can take to random hotels with randomly-filtered ISP service, doesn't cost much, and should have enough horsepower to run Tor. It may not have enough storage for some of the classic applications for Tor-on-a-TV, such as downloading pirated movies, but maybe a USB disk drive can fix that.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  9. Use Tor to watch TV instead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Its much better to use Tor to watch British TV here is how to do it http://www.caledoniacomputers.com/?p=1880 and its free for Linux users.

  10. Re:yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Anonymous cowards post too much. Stop arguing about this. If you are too cowardly to use your name and you post 5 times a day you are posting too much. It's that simple. Time to cut your throat, asshole.

    There are reasons other than cowardice for posting AC, you know.

  11. I don't know... by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a result of inexperienced police departments, running a TOR exit node can have some serious consequences.
    So the idea of ubiquitous TOR is great, but in practice I'm be leary of endorsing having TOR enabled [everything].
    For now, it should remain the domain of experienced users who are running TOR with their eyes open.

    You can say it's a chicken or egg kind of situation, but I don't want my family to be one of the eggs that gets broken because of the content coming out of their TOR exit node.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:I don't know... by subreality · · Score: 2

      This is why you load it up on other people's TVs.

    2. Re:I don't know... by jc79 · · Score: 1

      Using Tor or being an intermediate relay poses no such risk.

      Correct. Running an exit node is for the brave or those who live in countries with sensible laws. The rest of us can contribute by running relay nodes, and not allowing exit traffic.

  12. Re:yawn by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    "Rule #1 for surviving in Zombieland, CARDIO. When the virus struck, for obvious reasons, the first ones to go were the fatties. Poor fat bastards."

  13. What's All This About, Then? by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is the goal to flood the Tor network with so much traffic that the feds might not be able to catch your bittorrent downloads?

    --
    Who did what now?
    1. Re:What's All This About, Then? by jc79 · · Score: 1

      Running BitTorrent over Tor is stupid:

      1. Malicious exit nodes can correlate your BT streams to your Tor web browsing, and learn your real IP.
      2. The high bandwidth used by BT cripples the Tor network for everyone else
      3. Most popular BT clients send the tracker your IP anyway.

      https://blog.torproject.org/blog/bittorrent-over-tor-isnt-good-idea

      If you want anonymous P2P, then I2P is a much better option.

    2. Re:What's All This About, Then? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      1. Malicious exit nodes can correlate your BT streams to your Tor web browsing, and learn your real IP.

      How exactly can they do this? Why would your web browsing have any correlation to your BT streams?

      3. Most popular BT clients send the tracker your IP anyway.

      This is definitely a risk. It is probably best mitigated by ensuring that the client doesn't know your IP (NAT, no route to internet, etc).

      If you want anonymous P2P, then I2P is a much better option.

      Assuming you don't want to actually download anything. What is actually available on I2P? How does its library compare with any of the trackers on the internet at large? The reason people use tor isn't because it is more secure, but because it lets you browse the internet that you already use.

      Sure, it does create more traffic on the network, but most of its other problems are really not much different than the sorts of problems people can run into using a browser with tor.

    3. Re:What's All This About, Then? by jc79 · · Score: 2

      1. Malicious exit nodes can correlate your BT streams to your Tor web browsing, and learn your real IP.

      How exactly can they do this? Why would your web browsing have any correlation to your BT streams?

      Sorry, should have been more clear. Because Tor conserves circuits for reasons of efficiency, it is possible for an exit node to build a profile of the activity of a circuit by inspecting the data leaving that circuit. If you are browsing via Tor while running a BT session, the data from the two sessions can be sent over the same circuit. The exit node can learn your IP from the BT stream (BT client tells tracker what unique random port it's listening on, exit node sees connection to tracker at unique port number, faulty BT client sends IP to tracker) and correlate that to the web traffic on the same circuit. They now know what you're browsing, and what your IP is. Anonymity broken. It's explained in the post I linked to.

      Like you say, if your BT client doesn't know its real IP (NAT etc), then you're OK. It's a question of all the lemons lining up.

      Assuming you don't want to actually download anything. What is actually available on I2P? How does its library compare with any of the trackers on the internet at large? The reason people use tor isn't because it is more secure, but because it lets you browse the internet that you already use.

      Chicken and egg problem. If more people used I2P for their filesharing, then there would be more files available over I2P. A few benevolent individuals are seeding more and more. But yes, I understand that people prefer to proxy their normal things over Tor rather than switch entirely to new networks. It's just a shame that in doing so they hurt the Tor network.

      There was a suggestion a while ago that someone ought to make a bitTORrent client which ran a Tor relay on every BT peer. This would solve the bandwidth problem. Don't know if any work was ever done on it.

    4. Re:What's All This About, Then? by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 1

      Tor is horrible for any type of file sharing, and likely to just fail for lack of connections. Most outbound nodes have defaults to only support a few protocols on. HTTP(S) is the most popular supported. File sharing and email being the least supported of all, for obvious reasons.

      --
      I8-D
  14. Dumb Idea by Whiteox · · Score: 1

    None. It's a bad idea and will get nowhere. There are already enough solutions to watch world-wide TV. If Tor is the answer to watch 'home movies' then I for one wouldn't support it.

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  15. Re:yawn by geminidomino · · Score: 2

    Yeah, but when you combine it with blatant trolling, it's a pretty good guess that you're not dealing with an oppressed political dissident or a whistle-blower, just a douchebag manifesting the GIFT.

  16. Re:Now you can stream CP... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    Start with the fact that you can't even use Tor to stream ZP, much less CP...

    Troll.

  17. Re:Now you can stream CP... by jc79 · · Score: 1

    Ha! Like any hidden service has enough bandwidth to stream anything.

    Tor is used by many people who want anonymity. The fact that CP enthusiasts and other criminals use it is testament to the robustness of the anonymity it provides.

  18. Windows Media Center? by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

    I'm running MCE 2005 on my TV with two analog tuners (useless since September 2011 in Canada).
    It runs MAME and other emulators, and I can run about anything I want on that thing (the limiting factors are its CPU, an old 3000+ Athlon and its video card, an old 6600 non-gt silent)

    2GB ram, 3 1TB drives + a 120GB for system

    --
    I've got better things to do tonight than die.
  19. Re:yawn by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

    do you really think that someone who posts stuff like that would have mod points?

  20. Re:yawn by rpresser · · Score: 1

    Enjoying yourself, I hope. Like the asshole doctor who told me I needed to lose weight, as if I didn't already know that since before he was born, your comments have exactly zero impact on my future behavior. And I'm smiling ear to ear at the pleasant thought of your violent death next week.