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Inductive Charging For EVs To Be Tested In Berlin

cylonlover writes "The increasing availability of more practical electric vehicles has seen inductive charging technology attract the attention of those looking for for a cable-free way to charge EV batteries. German automakers are taking the opportunity to put inductive charging of EVs to a real-world test as part of the 'Effizienzhaus-Plus mit Elektromobilität' project. The project is a German government-backed initiative to build an energy-efficient house that generates more electricity than it consumes, with the surplus being fed back into the grid or used to charge the occupants' electric vehicles."

30 of 123 comments (clear)

  1. Low efficiency? by eparker05 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose when you only need a few watts of energy for a cellphone or something, I can understand the use of inductive charging. But if you lower your efficiency by a significant amount in a single step while charging a car (a few dozen kWh), and this is multiplied across a population of EV owning people, this is potentially adding a lot of unnecessary strain to the electric grid.

    Is it so hard just to plug the dang thing in? We don't have tubeless fuel transfer do we?

    1. Re:Low efficiency? by eparker05 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, spilt gasoline is a big deal. Aside from it's detrimental effects on the environment, it's also has mildly toxic fumes and it is highly flammable. Every year many people are burned while pumping gas, we just don't hear about it much because, like car accidents, it is one of those risks that we just accept.

      As for 'grandma' using a 300 amp plug. I think a clever engineer could come up with a relatively safe plug that doesn't sacrifice as much efficiency as inductive charging does.

    2. Re:Low efficiency? by Endlisnis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you spill a *little* gasoline, it's not a big deal, to the person pumping the gas. Yes, I'm sure that many people are horribly burned from pumping gasoline while trying to light a cigarette every year, and you are never going to have a perfect system. But I could pretty easily (if I wanted to), go to a gas station, accidentally pump gas all over my pants and walk away uninjured, assuming I didn't do something stupid afterwards like try to dry myself off by a campfire. But if I tried the same thing with a high capacity charging cable, I'm pretty sure my testicles would pop like corn and I wouldn't be walking anywhere.

    3. Re:Low efficiency? by Draconmythica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You simply need to include a low voltage "handshake" type setup in the charging circuit and then only start the high power transfer once the plug is fully engaged. This shouldn't be too hard to implement for even a mildly clever engineer totally removes that risk.

    4. Re:Low efficiency? by uncqual · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't follow charging plug technology/standards. However if "spilling electricity" is a problem, it seems that something very wrong has happened in the standards process for these plugs. (The size/weight of a 300A cable for a very weak person might be more of a problem, although it seems like even that could be addressed by fairly simple mechanical systems to counterbalance the weight.)

      Presumably (I certainly hope!) the charging stations have GFCI protection to prevent injury/damage from some of the common screwups/failures (fault to ground through human being a particularly interesting one).

      A firm verified locking engagement of the cable and car presumably (again, I certainly hope) is required before power is enabled and breaking that locked engagement presumably shuts off the power.

      For extra credit, if the charging unit and the vehicle being charged ever disagree substantially on the amount of energy being transferred (due, for example, to a breakdown somewhere in the cable causing a short across positive/negative which would not be detected by GFCI but could lead to fire problems et al), the charger should presumably shut down (this might not be a very precise safety mechanism due to having to allow for varying resistances of cables/cars).

      For super extra credit, provide a standard mechanism to allow a car to identify itself though the plug via a cryptographically secure mechanism (similar to smart card). This would facilitate employers, for example, allowing employees to recharge their registered cars for free with a minimum of hassle without opening the recharging up to everyone in the parking lot. It would also allow cardless recharging at commercial recharging stations -- just plug into a charging station that is on the ShellCharge network and your car is instantly recognized and you're billed as appropriate. It would also allow a multifamily dwelling complex to provide chargers in a very transparent fashion to their residents.

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    5. Re:Low efficiency? by sexconker · · Score: 4, Informative

      You simply need to include a low voltage "handshake" type setup in the charging circuit and then only start the high power transfer once the plug is fully engaged. This shouldn't be too hard to implement for even a mildly clever engineer totally removes that risk.

      That "handshake" is called a ground connection.
      Many plugs have conductors of different lengths. The longer connectors are the ones you want to engage first.

      Typically, the ground connectors engage first as you plug the cord in, so the device has a place to shunt current to in case of an OH SHIT moment.
      Then your other, shorter connectors make contact as you continue pushing the plug in. If something's wrong with the device or those connectors, you already have a path to ground.

      I think the SATA power connectors play this game with the +3.3V and +5V lines too. Not sure.
      Look at the connectors on an SD card. Same principle.

    6. Re:Low efficiency? by sexconker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For super extra credit, provide a standard mechanism to allow a car to identify itself though the plug via a cryptographically secure mechanism (similar to smart card). This would facilitate employers, for example, allowing employees to recharge their registered cars for free with a minimum of hassle without opening the recharging up to everyone in the parking lot. It would also allow cardless recharging at commercial recharging stations -- just plug into a charging station that is on the ShellCharge network and your car is instantly recognized and you're billed as appropriate. It would also allow a multifamily dwelling complex to provide chargers in a very transparent fashion to their residents.

      Holy shit a good idea on Slashdot.
      Apartment complexes (and the shitty housing market making them necessary for more and more people) are one of the big things holding back plug-in cars.
      If people can't plug their car in they're not gonna buy a plug-in car.

    7. Re:Low efficiency? by Jmc23 · · Score: 2

      Canadians have done it for decades without any problem, are USians just lazy or what? Lot's of cars here come with plugs and lots of parking spaces have outlets to plug into to heat up the engine block.

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  2. Re:a smart fortwo? by compro01 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who would? I'd much rather be caught alive in one.

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  3. In an efficiency experiment? by Urza9814 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who's the idiot who decided to put 'inductive charging' and 'energy-efficient' in the same paragraph? If you're trying to be efficient, inductive charging is the LAST thing you want to do. If you really are that opposed to having to plug in, come up with some innovative solution using contacts embedded in the garage like cordless phone cradles. Or do something like bumper cars. Though I bet people wouldn't like the thought of having exposed high voltage contacts...but I'm sure they could figure out a way to make it safe. Hell, even a plug on the front of the car that drives into a receptacle. Inductive is just stupid.

  4. Inefficient by Redbaran · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wikipedia cites an 86% efficiency for inductive charging. I would bet that efficiency is hurt as this scales up from a cell phone to a car. Other than helping to improve EV adoption by making it more convenient, why would we want such a system?

    Given the current costs of an EV, plus the length of time it already takes to charge, it seems there are other areas of research that would be better focused on. This technology only makes an EV more expensive to own and would probably take longer to charge with. People seem to do just fine connecting a short, thick, clunky hose to their cars now.

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging#Disadvantages)

    1. Re:Inefficient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You would be incorrect on your assumption. Inductive energy transmission efficiency involves many factors, but as voltage and current raise, recapture losses begin to drop off. Again MANY factors are involved here, but the base assumption that scaling inductive energy transmission up decreases efficiency is false.

    2. Re:Inefficient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wikipedia cites an 86% efficiency for inductive charging.

      Gasoline engine efficiency is typically between 25-30%; Diesel engines do a little better, at between 40-50% efficiency. That said, the 86% efficiency rate of EV's is still over 30% greater than that of the most efficient internal combustion vehicles... and that's not good enough?

      This is only for the charging. The actual production of the electrical power has additional losses.

    3. Re:Inefficient by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      I don't really care that much, and I'm sure most other people feel the same, about how energy efficient or not a particular source of fuel is. I care more about how much $ per mile, how far I can go, and how fast to refuel. I don't even know the first thing about inductive charging, but if means I can travel to work and back for a few dollars or cross country for a few hundred bucks, refuel in minutes not hours, then it sounds good. Oh, and if I'm stuck in a winter storm in Chicago for 12 hours in my car as many were last winter, will it keep me warm?

      Ultimately, those concerns will be the deciding factors in whether EV's manage to surpass ICEV's any time in the foreseeable future.

      They (EV's) lost that battle in the 1920's, and even though batteries have become orders of magnitude more efficient than those of yesteryear, I personally don't see the EV replacing the good-ol'-fashioned inefficient, heat producing internal combustion engine anytime soon.

      --
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    4. Re:Inefficient by Tanktalus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I took EE in school. Many years ago. Haven't done a thing with it since. However, the part you seem to be missing (and the AC you responded to) is simple logic, not EE-specific. We're not comparing inductive charging to gas vehicles. We're comparing inductive charging to non-inductive charging. That is, driving your EV to a specific area of your garage vs driving your EV to somewhere that it can reach the proper outlet and be plugged in.

      86% efficiency for inductive charging means that when you buy 1KWh from the power company, you're only getting .86KWh to your vehicle. Additional losses come into play after that (and before that as well), but they should be the same losses whether we're using inductive charging or not, so they're entirely irrelevant. Copper wire's losses are negligible over this short of a distance, so when you buy 1KWh from the power company, you're putting 1KWh of energy into your vehicle, for all intents and purposes. That 14% loss is increasing the cost of "refueling" your EV by about 16%.

      When comparing against gas vehicles, the mode of charging is relevant in that it affects the overall efficiency of the system. And you have a valid point that the overall efficiency of an EV likely far surpasses gas and diesel vehicles. However, we then open whole new cans of worms - depending on your energy source, the EV may not be a significant overall improvement when considering things like pollution. If your electricity is from a coal-fired plant vs natural gas vs nuclear/wind/solar/hydro, for example. If from coal, the EV advantage may not be nearly as significant.

      Having said all that, induction charging can make the convenience of an EV very attractive. You don't have to think about it, you have a fully-charged vehicle every morning. No worrying about making a run to the gas station for regular commutes. If someone else can solve the distance problem, we could get a long way toward a serious contender to take gas vehicles off the road. While this doesn't make the EV a must-have, it is another parallel attempt to get there.

  5. Re:a smart fortwo? by SirGarlon · · Score: 3, Funny

    Smart fortwo EV is doubleplus good.

    --
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  6. Problem? by elsurexiste · · Score: 4, Funny

    The project is a German government-backed initiative to build an energy-efficient house that generates more electricity than it consumes

    Problem, thermodynamics?

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    1. Re:Problem? by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Problem, comprehension? If the house has solar panels, wind turbines, etc, as well as being energy efficient in usage, then yeah, it could easily generate more electricity than it produces. You know, like a power plant.

      Problem, engineering? Even if the house has solar panels (optimistically 20W/sqft cite), wind turbines (in a heavily suburban area with trees, neighbors, kids who like throwing things into other things... cite = maybe 200kwH per year), etc., as well as being energy efficient in usage...

      Okay, let's just stop there. Your fridge alone needs 600kwh. Hate to break it to you, but unless you live in a temperate climate that requires no heating, cooling, and the only major appliance in your house is a fridge, forget it hippy. There's a reason this is a major government backed initiative: It's almost hopelessly optimistic given today's technology.

      p.s. recursion is fun.

      --
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    2. Re:Problem? by St.Creed · · Score: 2

      This may be of interest: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/BoiLu.shtml

      If it is possible to design a house that only consumes http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/solar_power.htm - gives them 2500 kWh/year. Uses a bit of real estate but we can get more efficient cells and then the price goes up but you can certainly get more power than this. And it is more than enough if you designed your house the right way. Even without a lot of measures, the average energy use for a Dutch household (2.1 persons) is around 3500 kWh/year. The more modern houses do better. And that is with just the general measures that every house has to follow.

      So hopelessly optimistic, I think not. Optimistic yes, but certainly doable with current tech. Maybe not at a pricepoint you'd like, but doable? I think so.

      --
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    3. Re:Problem? by aXis100 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Problem, bad info??

      My pissy little 2.2kW solar system, consuming maybe 1/10 of my roof space, has generated over 1400kWh since August. I've cut my daily import consumption by more than half - from 20kWh to 9kWh - and that's still using airconditioning, two fridges, multiple PC's running all day and an electric tumble drier.

      A bigger solar system or better engineered house with specific attention to energy efficiency would blow my efforts out of the water and easily have a nett export back to the grid.

    4. Re:Problem? by mattack2 · · Score: 2

      How much did yours cost, and what do you think the "payback time" will be?

      (Disclaimer: I actually think payback time is often not a great question to ask.. one can want to be green even if it's more expensive... just like driving a ridiculous expensive BMW instead of a Civic.)

    5. Re:Problem? by swalve · · Score: 2

      How do you install solar and wind in a condo?

    6. Re:Problem? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      Do yourself a favour and get rid of your shitty fridge. Even an average modern one (kike Bauknecht KG335) needs only around 240 kWh per year, better ones (like Siemens KG39EAW40) are satisfied with 160 kWh or less.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  7. People are too stupid by NoobixCube · · Score: 4, Funny

    People are too stupid to plug their cars in, I mean, connecting something to the car to make it go? It just baffles the mind! That's why we all fuel up by driving into a pool of petrol and letting osmosis take its course!

    --
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  8. Conductive roads by guantamanera · · Score: 2

    They should just build that stuff into the roads so we can drive our cars like bumper cars. Charge while you drive.

  9. They're testing this in Chattanooga by Vegigami · · Score: 2

    They're trying this out with some electric buses in Chattanooga, Tennessee: CARTA's electric buses to charge on the go

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  10. Re:a smart fortwo? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 5, Informative

    No it isn't. For one the test was mostly show. Without accelerometers a crash test is of limited value. But visually, the car holds together but it is so rigid the passengers would have to take almost the full force of the acceleration of the impact. There is no real crumple which is what helps reduce the G forces on the passengers in bigger nosed cars if they crash. Even the windshield of the Smart Car crashed in the test lab didn't break. And when they crashed a Smart Car into concrete at 70 mph the driver's door still functioned. Given that the door basically starts at the front of the car, this thing didn't crumple hardly at all. As unscientific as the tests in that video are even the presenters noted this (I transcribed a short excerpt on it):

    The downside of the shells rigidity is that there is a greater potential for the crash forces to be transmitted through to the passengers. Ideally you ought to slow them down as slowly as possible.

    If the people have to take the acceleration of a crash at any sort of speed, they will die. But maybe the resale value of the car would still be good. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable riding in one at any sort of highway speed. But what am I saying??? I ride a motorbike. Never mind... I still wouldn't feel comfortable.

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  11. Re:a smart fortwo? by eineerg · · Score: 2

    Have to agree here, cars that do well in collisions tend to compress as much as possible to dissipate energy, so a smart cart bouncing off a wall at 100km an hour probably isn't solid evidence.

  12. Re:a smart fortwo? by neongrau · · Score: 2

    see smart fortwo
    vs BMW 5 series


    not too much of a difference, except that you have higher chances to kill pedestrians in a BMW :P

  13. Re:a smart fortwo? by neongrau · · Score: 2

    smart uses some tech to compensate for the lack of crumple.
    Basically some slightly-time-delayed absorber built-into the chassis.
    The german word for it is "Tilgermasse" couldn't find a proper english term for it.
    A lot of ppl fear driving smarts but being more endangered in a crash is just FUD.
    Especially crumple seems to be a fetish of US car makers after their historical ignorance of it when they built massive chunks of metal that behaved the way you fear smarts would do.
    It's probably already a tradition to lack behind in the automotive industry. ;)