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How the Tevatron Influenced Computing

New submitter SciComGeek writes "Few laypeople think of computing innovation in connection with the Tevatron particle accelerator, which shut down earlier this year. Mention of the Tevatron inspires images of majestic machinery, or thoughts of immense energies and groundbreaking physics research, not circuit boards, hardware, networks, and software. Yet over the course of more than three decades of planning and operation, a tremendous amount of computing innovation was necessary to keep the data flowing and physics results coming. Those innovations will continue to influence scientific computing and data analysis for years to come."

22 of 66 comments (clear)

  1. And the web... by InfiniteZero · · Score: 2

    And the web was created at CERN. Enough said.

    1. Re:And the web... by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Informative

      U of I have had supercomputers for decades. Of course a lot of computation is needed for the Tevatron, from controlling the streams to analyzing the data. U of I is also home to the Tevatron.

      Odd that people don't think of Illinois when they think of computing and physics.

    2. Re:And the web... by vondo · · Score: 2

      U of I is not home to the Tevatron. That's a page for people who are at U of I and work on the Tevatron. Illinois (the state) is the home of the Tevatron.

      Fermilab was built by the DOE and managed by a consortium of universities. It's now run as a partnership between that consortium and the U of Chicago.

  2. TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... by aix+tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... where people need something new to fix a problem.

    It will never really happen at places where people want to make a quick buck with it.

    1. Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... by Kjella · · Score: 2

      TRUE inovation will always happen at places where people need something new to fix a problem. It will never really happen at places where people want to make a quick buck with it.

      What about "our customers are leaving us for the competition", is that a problem? Of course they try all sorts of other and sometimes quite innovative ways of keeping the customers too, but sometimes corporations do innovate to make a buck ;)

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... by SciComGeek · · Score: 2

      I agree that the fact that basic research leads to unexpected spinoff technologies is not generally given sufficient recognition, which your comment seems to imply, aix tom. But don't forget that both the Tevatron and LHC computing architectures are based on the use of cheap commercial technology. Without affordable computing components and later PCs, they could not accomplished all of these other things. It's a symbiosis. Of course, from your comment it isn't clear whether or not you meant to dismiss corporate innovation entirely, or just short-sighted corporate greed. So my apologies if I'm making any wrong assumptions.

    3. Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... by LordVader717 · · Score: 2

      Your preposition kind of excludes innovation. If competition exists, it implies you are working in an established field and market. True innovations on the other hand create new and unprecedented markets which have yet to be established.

    4. Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      More often than not actual innovation will be the last option considered after all others have failed. History has shown that innovative companies often lose out to aggressive and unscrupulous competitors.

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    5. Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately it can often be more profitable to stifle or delay an innovation, and so in a purely profit driven organisation this will be the course of action taken.

      How many highly innovative technologies exist behind closed doors because their release would obsolete an older but more profitable technology?

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  3. This is why we need the big projects by sandytaru · · Score: 5, Informative

    I got the mini tour at Lawrence Livermore National Lab a few years back. They've spent about three billion dollars on a proof of concept system for hot fusion. During the project, they invented a process to extrude entire sheets of solid ruby crystals, and hundreds of other innovations. Yes, three billion dollars is a lot of money. The things they had to create will reverberate throughout the private sector for decades, however, and they plan on selling off the final hot fusion plans to private companies who will profit from it once they've got all the kinks worked out.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:This is why we need the big projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Impossible. Progress can only happen in space.

  4. RAIT by Smallpond · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the National Labs was using a parallel array of fast tape, I think LTO, to get decent speed (1 GBPS or so) and decent capacity (10TB). Good for recording all the data from one experiment.

    1. Re:RAIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I worked in a mid-size experiment in the mid-90's -- we acquired about 2TB of data -- but that's back when the biggest readily available SCSI disk you could buy had just doubled in size to a whopping 18Gb; a big tape would hold maybe 10Gb compressed. Data volumes all depend on data flow capacities.

      Two things hold: you will acquire more data faster until you hit a bottleneck then you'll move the bottleneck a few times; AND you will increase the computation being performed on a data set until it is slow -- you pick your tolerance for how long a statistically significant sample should take to analyze then adjust the analysis to fill that time. This holds in particles AND it holds in MR imaging physics where say a new technique gives you 2x the signal per unit time -- a balancing game ensues and some signal is spent in better SNR, some in better spatial resolution and some in shorter scan times. You will expand what you do until it becomes painful in some manner.

  5. PET/MRI by sirdude · · Score: 4, Informative

    In medicine, one of the offshots from CERN & the LHC has been the development/improvement of the MRI scanner.

  6. The article barely scratches the surface by stox · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'll rattle off a half dozen from the top of my head:

    According to Robert Young, one of the founders of Red Hat, Fermilab's adoption of Linux was one of the seminal events in the acceptance of Linux as a real operating system.

    IBM's SP series of computers was inspired by the IBM RS6000 compute farms at Fermilab.

    The original Linux CD driver was written by an experimenter at the DZero group at Fermilab.

    Many parallel programming techniques were pioneered on the ACP/MAPS system designed, engineered, and built at Fermilab.

    The term "compute farm" was coined at Fermilab.

    Fermilab was the world's third web site, after CERN and SLAC.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
    1. Re:The article barely scratches the surface by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      About the website, remember the original purpose of the world wide web wasn't to distribute porn but for researchers like those at CERN and Fermilan to share information. Yes email existed but they needed something more akin to a kiosk to post information to anyone in the world that was interested.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  7. Still going on by fermion · · Score: 2

    My understanding is the the LHC currently involves a worldwide computing grid capable of distributing on the order of a petabyte of data a month, and doing basic analysis of much more. The thing is that the people who work at such places are highly intelligent problem solvers that are not going to throw out ideas simply because it does not meet some preconceived notion. They are not going to say don't paint the roof white simply because no one has done it before. They have problems to solve, and know how to get the funding to do it.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  8. Tevatron eh? by Starfleet+Command · · Score: 2

    Sounds like a Transformer, probably a Decepticon.

  9. Re:Impossible by mcgrew · · Score: 2

    Wrong. The first electronic computer (discounting the secret British one -- if it's secret, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist) was ENIAC, patented in 1946, a quarter century before Apollo 11 and six years before I was born.

    I hope you're still in junior high, because if not your teachers REALLY suck.

  10. Re:Rose-tinted glasses by SciComGeek · · Score: 2

    Not to mention Scientific Linux (which was frankly unusable it was so out of date until CERN took over)

    I can't comment on the rest of what is written here, but this statement in particular is definitely a false statement. CERN did not take over this project. Scientific Linux remains a collaboration between the two labs. See:

    SL is a Linux release put together by Fermilab, CERN, and various other labs and universities around the world. Its primary purpose is to reduce duplicated effort of the labs, and to have a common install base for the various experimenters. -From http://www.scientificlinux.org/

    If you click on the "about" page, you'll see that there are two "main" developers from Fermilab, two from CERN, one from DESY, and one from ETHZ.

  11. Re:Rose-tinted glasses by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    what a bullshit fairy tale. Various clusters were built of SGI, IBM workstations and DEC vaxstations. There were CADD/CAE groups who liked SGI machine (and others who used PCs and others with Sun) and some of those had SGI servers,. Until 1995, "the mainframe" for physics use outside of the clusters was an Amdahl, IBM mainframe clone on steroids (actually won over competing supercomputer bids!). First PC farm with dual pentium iii at 333MHz was in 1998. I was there.

  12. Tagged Photon Lab by aitala · · Score: 2

    I worked at the Tagged Photon Lab - that's my PhD advisor Don Summers loading tapes into the Great Wall of drives. We drove the poor folks at Exabyte nuts.

    Eric Aitala

    --
    Eric Aitala
    www.f1m.com