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Speculating On What a Microsoft Superphone Might Mean
smitty777 writes "Forbes is running an intriguing story on a new 'Superphone' under development by the folks at Microsoft. According to this leaked MS roadmap document, the plan is to build the Apollo-based phone in the 4th quarter of 2012. FTA: 'In the end, however, none of this matters. Microsoft's "peek into the future" is barely a glimpse into what the company may or may not have planned for 2012. While the "superphone" bullet is worth noting, it is not the confirmation of a revolutionary new product. At best, it indicates that Microsoft wishes to compete with Apple by offering a product that is, well, super.' It's also interesting that Sony and AT&T also appear to be working on superphones of their own."
I expect a Super cool bluescreen on that phone!
Winphone 7 isn't *that* good.
However ... It's a good start considering they wiped the Windows CE slate clean and implemented XNA and Silverlight on a decent minimum-specced hardware base.
It's still *very* immature, considering the polish of its competitors.
Nice astroturf. Too bad it hasn't much to do with TFA, but then again neither does the summary. Which can be be summarized as
How exciting.
(Sarcasm in the TFA)
It's a hyperbolic expansion of a marketing blurb that in essence, means absolutely nothing except to perhaps cement "superphone" as the next idiotic buzzword in this segment.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
one phone for all bands? so you can get the phone and use it on any network with have to buy a ATT or sprint one like the iphone. No having the phone locked to the carrier you choose.
You have a strong stomach. I think I threw up in the back of my mouth.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Microsoft has deep pockets and is not shy to use them to support a money pit until it becomes a success (like the xbox). Maybe this phone thing will be a success, but I hope they will come up with something better than Windows CE which, as a developer, was painful to work with.
lucm, indeed.
Microsoft reminds me of General Motors.
The capability of both companies is immense, yet due to various internal
influences, both companies have an overwhelming tendency to produce
things which are mediocre at best and outright repulsive when compared
to alternative choices, this with distressing regularity.
Microsoft could produce an amazing phone, but it will suck in ways which
matter to smart users, who won't want to use it, much less buy it. Just
wait and see.
I'm no MS basher, but seriously, their "roadmap" if at all authentic, is embarrassingly redolent of this:
Step 1: Release new OS/Phone
Step 2: Sell in more markets
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
Seriously. The graphic is almost literally like that
I dont think there's been a single other player out there who can stand to compete against Microsoft in it's ability to generate huge amounts of press and fanfare in unreleased products that ultimately become unparalleled market failures.
Frankly, Microsoft would do well to take a note from Apple's playbook and SHUT THE FUCK UP about the product until it's release instead of blathering like a spastic child about it's vaporware, leaking feature after feature and allowing the competition to catch up or even surpass it's abilities before the product is even launched.
Fuck all.
One word:
Astroturf.
This obvious troll is obvious has gotten out of hand.
Seriously, it would be wonderful, just once, for InterestingInsightbitesCmdPony et al ad infinitum to STFU, and perhaps enter the fray once the discussion begins, rather than rushing to be the first post with all the ms tripe.
Ducks, "great software" from Microsoft, google sucks, etc.
All just pure bullshit and astroturf.
With the added bonus of modding oneself up, with who-knows-how-many aliases, and modding anyone who points out the obvious troll, down.
Really, it would be nice to, just once, to read a discussion that isn't anchored by some preselected MS astroturf.
cheers,
Indeed, Microsoft could produce an amazing *anything*, but they are hobbled by their own situation.
When it comes to a phone, unless they go the route of the XBox, where they build it themselves, there is no way to keep it secret when so many other vendors have to have access to the plans to get their own version out. Thus, companies like Apple and Google can move faster and mitigate any new or innovative features said phone might actually have.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
Oh please. I just read a survey that 2% of Europeans are even considering Nokia / MS. It is and was DOA.
I was a Windows guy for portable stuff for many years because they were usually the first to market with the "killer apps" that I needed. (Apps not necessarily meaning applications but also features.) Honestly, M$-based PDAs had some killer features back in the day. But what they've got on the phone market now is a joke. They're a distant third these days. One or two phones per carrier, some still on 6.5 which is 2 years old now. Verizon doesn't even have a 4G WinMo smartphone. It's pretty pathetic. Apple's nice but they've always been behind the curve in connectivity. Last OS to get tethering, still don't have 4G, etc. Android's been at the cutting edge for a while now and, unless they totally drop the ball, it will be hard to pull existing customers away from the platform.
I made the switch a couple weeks ago and haven't looked back. It doesn't really matter to me what Microsoft puts out in the next few years because I don't think they'll be able to catch up, let alone regain the lead. The only hope they have is to go after business clients with cloud computing, workstation docks, etc. Of course, they'd still be playing catchup to Android. Already got laptop and desktop docks for Android phones along with google docs to work on your documents from any device.
It's fascinating to watch Microsoft fail in market after market where it didn't start with a monopoly, like in mobile devices generally, phones specifically, tablets specifically, media generally, mobile media players specifically, and everything else.
Except for mouse and keyboard, and in games both console and PC. Why are those different from the rest? Maybe because mouse and keyboard are just extensions of the Windows brand monopoly on the desktop, with no real brand competition whatsoever. And maybe in games the competitors each have their own monopolies, and the competition is the kind Microsoft likes: based on spending a lot of money and running a corrupt supply chain / marketing system rather than on quality.
--
make install -not war
Define "great products".
I'll remind you that each of the products you cite had competition, until Microsoft used their monopolistic advantages to squash that competition.
If, in truth, Microsoft has any "great products", the competitor's products were sometimes greater. It sucks to be deprived of those products, just because Microsoft had the influence to crush them. Look at the close call we had with Java. Imagine a world in which the only surviving JVM was Microsoft's own version.
Those people who define "great products" as those products promoted by the most successful mega corporations would certainly agree with you that Microsoft has a lot of great products. Those of us who define "great products" differently will continue to disagree with you.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Only bad thing about WP7 is that you can't run apps outside markets as easily as with old Windows Mobile's. It really sucks. But it's something iPhone and Android mandated, so blame is on them.
Erm.. android? erm... no there is a nice simple setting where you can chose to install things not from the official android market, there are also other markets such as the app brain market for android.... so yer kinda of .. well way off the mark
If you cant recognize that Microsoft has made SOME great products, then youre either ignorant or a fanboy, and probably both. Examples: Exchange, Outlook, Excel, Visio (FINALLY there is a worthy competitor in Gliffy),
Win7 (Hows gnome3 / Unity treating you?), etc.
Nice try.
So I'm either ignorant or a fanboy? How's about neither. Try realist. I don't recall saying that MS has made NO great products. The same way I didn't say I hated ducks. But keep demonstrating where your level of comprehension is, and perhaps I can dumb my posts down (even more) for you.
Gnome/Unity? Seriously? Fluxbox, ftw.
Keep flaming, tho. Looks good on you.
cheers,
Outlook! That is the absolute worst MUA ever. It's defaults and broken replies have ruined email forever resulting in everybody using TOFU messages to make any discussion/question for more than just 1 point per email impossible.
That "leaked" roadmap is what Steve Ballmer get's paid billions of dollars to shit out quarter after quarter. *sigh* I hate my job....
Indeed, Microsoft could produce an amazing *anything*, but they are hobbled by their own situation.
It always amazes me that some people still believe Microsoft is just chock full o' amazing ideas that would overwhelm the world - if ONLY their corporate culture didn't get in the way.
There's simply no evidence for this. Microsoft has done very little innovation - most of their successful products have resulted form iterative fine-tuning on ideas that originated elsewhere (e.g. Windows, Office). They've done this very well at times... but it's not innovative in the least.
#DeleteChrome
Honestly, I can't think of anything that would immature about it.. In fact, especially the UI is great once you've tried it. Easily beats Android and even iPhone too.
Seriously? Have you either of the other devices?
Also, development on WP7 phones is ridiculously easy, as you point out. I'm more than happy that Nokia finally dropped Symbian, which was a *major* pain in the ass to even set up development environment for. XNA, Silverlight etc make it ridiculously easy to do apps for WP7.
Agreed. Compared to Symbian, XNA/Silverlight is amazing :)
Only bad thing about WP7 is that you can't run apps outside markets as easily as with old Windows Mobile's. It really sucks. But it's something iPhone and Android mandated, so blame is on them.
Not the *only* thing, but I'm not going to enumerate them, as it's likely to be a waste of time. I am surprised you didn't mention that Microsoft has blessed a jailbreak/sideloader http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/11/official-windows-phone-7-jailbreak-now-live-for-a-fee/
Please explain why you want to forbid someone from having a positive opinion about microsoft products?
I use their compilers daily and couldn't be more happier. Its my opinion that their developer tools are superior to everything else that I've used.
Only if you explain where I said I wanted to forbid anyone from having any opinion about anything.
The portion you've quoted is an example of the general tone of the OP's numerous first posts; it's bullshit because it's constant, persistent, and ultimately exasperating, not because it's necessarily untrue or exaggerated.
Perhaps, rather than "setting the stage", and anchoring every discussion each and every time there's a chance to promote MS and/or dis anyone but MS (google, linux, geese), our wizard can hold off and enter once the discussion has begun. Methinks his "points" may not stand much of a chance, once the tone of the discussion is set by someone else.
cheers,
Didn't we hear the same crap about the Zune over the iPod a few years back? Big hat, no cattle.
The Lumina 800 is made of parts recycled from the N9 (which is a "super phone"). Except for the processor (ARM - N9 Snapdragon - Lumina ) it uses the same case, glass, and most of the internals. I don't know if the front facing camera that the N9 has is just missing, or if WP7 just can't handle two cameras.
Nokia would have been better off sticking with Maemo (the N9 is not really MeeGo). It is truly beautiful.
On a side note, does anyone know if Microsoft got copy and paste working on WP7? Or have they fixed the WiFi so it can connect other than DHCP?
I bought an N9 for my phone collection. It's smoothness and functionality is much more than I expected. It could have been the next iPhone.
Really.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Here's my take. I think Microsoft wants to unify their operating systems.
Windows Phone was the first "Metro" experience, but it runs on an old CE kernel and the stack above that is Silverlight (and XNA). Metro is huge. It's the first really new user interface Microsoft's shipped since Windows 95. Metro makes classic Windows and even iPhone and Android feel ancient -- the same old square icons on a desktop we've all been using for the last several decades.
Windows 8 brings Metro to the desktop, laptop, and tablet world. This world, though, is built on the NT kernel, with the WinRT API above that. Sure, you can build Silverlight-like apps in Windows 8 Metro, it might even be trivial to port your WP app to Windows 8 Metro, but you can't easily go the other way.
So, what can Microsoft do about this? Well, it's easy, move Windows Phone onto the NT kernel, and carry over the bulk of the WinRT API. This would make developing your Windows app for any form factor, from desktops to phones, a very easy task. Throw in some nice Visual Studio and Blend templates for re-shaping your app to fit the various form factors, and you've got something really compelling.
The problem with that? Well, today's Windows Phone hardware probably isn't sufficient to drive an NT+WinRT OS. Enter "Superphones."
Superphones, I'm guessing, are the first generation of Windows Phone that run on the NT kernel and support the WinRT (or at least enough of it for most apps.) Note the Apollo release timing is not far from the expected Windows 8 release. Put that together with the recent news that the Windows Phone chief was put in charge of a "a new role working for me on a time-critical opportunity focused on driving maximum impact in 2012 with Windows Phone and Windows 8", and there might be something to this.
So, what do you all think. Am I crazy? Would "same API" across all devices be a worthy Microsoft goal? An achievable one? And what about X-box? Could Microsoft pull off the hat-trick, and unify all of their major platforms under a Metro front end? No doubt that's a tall order, and there are three CPU architectures to deal with. But Microsoft is a big and wealthy company.
\When i had to root and install a cooked rom just to get the camera to take more than 2 pictures in a row, there is a problem.
Yes, there is. Return your phone to the manufacturer and get a brand new one for free. No need to flash your ROM to take two pictures without crashing.
We could go on forever, however, riddle me this:
When you perused the headline, then the summary...did you have any *inkling* whatsoever, that InterestingFella would have the first post? That it would have the same timestamp as the submission? (ya, it's Firehose! yep, Firehose!). That, despite having the same timestamp, the spelling/grammar is usually good; that the thoughts seem pretty-well laid out, embedded links, sales info? Cursory competitor bash? Shall I continue?
Of course you did. If it's not frosty piss, it's this weeks incarnation of the same dude.
ergo...obvious.
How many accounts does one have to have on this site, anyway?
cheers
The phone market is done and dusted. People have increasing investment (in money and in time spent learning to use) a collection of applications, and the market for "dumb phone to smart phone" transition is finished. The only market left is competing head-on to switch people away from iPhone (good luck with that) or from Android (fractionally easier, as there's evidence people can be switch to Apple).
In order to compete, Microsoft would either have to completely kill Apple stone-dead in functionality and quality, with a release one product going against a mature product with a mature eco-system (didn't Zune teach them _anything_?) or would have to undercut the commodity Android vendors on price, which is essentially impossible now, never mind in a year's time.
Microsoft are increasing slow to react, and are arriving both late and under-armed at every fight. Music Player, Smart Phone, Tablet: they've missed all three. They need to find a new place to innovate, and for as long as they refuse to do anything which isn't based around Windows, that's going to get harder and harder for them.
STFU? WTF? This was a leak of a simplistic chart. Apple has managed to get actual prototypes stolen.
They wiped the visible parts of the CE slate clean, but it's still the CE kernel. They needed to keep the CE guts to get the phone to market when they did. If they had started fresh, they wouldn't have made the same design compromises with the CE kernel that they did years ago. IMHO, Apple made some very smart decisions with iOS, especially in power management features. It's amazing just how much of the iPod/iPad/iPhone gets shut down when idle or doing something like watching video. I think Apple's heritage as a hardware + software company gives them a big advantage over a mostly software company like Microsoft or Google.
As far as Nokia and RIM are concerned, I really don't understand how they have managed (and continue to mange) to do almost everything wrong.
Word up! If Microsoft really wanted to take over this market, they'd take the phone out of their superphone and just make it super. Seriously, imagine a device you could use just like a phone but without the carrier (e.g., AT&T, Verizon, Vodaphone). Not just some WiFi/Skype thing, but a 5G, video call, LEO satellite, wireless system with global coverage and no 'pay per second' or 'pay per bit' usage charges. Call it a "Microsoft fucks the carriers." That would sell BILLIONS.
This is such a worn out strategy. Almost every time MS has been out done in a product area, some info "slips" out about their new fanatastic, better-than-anything-in-history product. The reason they do this... and all you business majors out there should remember this from your business strategy classes... is to freeze the market. All the possible MS customers that are completely committed to the MS brand will hold off on making a purchase of a competitor's product hoping that MS will actually deliver. And from what we've seen of late, they haven't been doing very well. Windows 7 is not too bad, but you don't have to think too hard to remember all the disappointments that they've delivered.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
XNA, Silverlight etc make it ridiculously easy to do apps for WP7.
Only if you completely ignore the position Microsoft is in with respect to the overall market.
XNA doesn't matter. What matters is how easy it is for the developers who have already written apps for iOS and Android to port them to WP7. Microsoft is trying to apply their usual MO to a market where they have no market power, and it doesn't work. Pushing platform-specific developer tools and EEE are useless when the platform is a very small minority, because instead of locking out other platforms from software developed for yours, you lock out your own platform from software developed for the others.
XNA doesn't matter. What matters is how easy it is for the developers who have already written apps for iOS and Android to port them to WP7. Microsoft is trying to apply their usual MO to a market where they have no market power
Hey, I would you introduce you to these two small guys called Windows and Xbox360.
MS realises they can't compete in the Smartphone market so they have devised a cunning plan to create a whole new market, the superphone market.
Sure a superphone looks and acts kinda like a smartphone but that' doesn't change the fact that a smartphone is just not a superphone (It doesn't have an MS logo on it for starters).
And when the stats come rolling in, MS will be the only player in this new market so they will naturally have 100% market share.
But it doesn't end there. MS will trademark the Superphone name, effectively meaning nobody else can enter the superphone market. They'll also patent the act of making a phone super just to bolster their position.
The week after, Samsung will trump them by releasing a Megaphone. Their marketing will be so loud it will drown out MS's and pretty soon nobody will remember the superphone.
Ryans Tutorials - A collection of technology tutorials.
Windows phone 7 is a turd.
"Superphone" Windows means what? Rocket-powered turd?
The metro UI is clueless. Clearly it was designed by people who never really "got" touch. Why is 20% of the high-resolution screen always occupied by useless black sliding bar?
Pointless, ugly and without function or art.
Rocket-powered turd.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
The previous poster did not point out that development was ridiculously easy. He did however say, "Winphone 7 isn't *that* good."
A great UI means nothing without decent apps for the user to interface with. I am not interested in pissed-off avians or whatever game clones may be available for WP7, I want tools not entertainment. Most of the quality app makers for WM have jumped ship for Android or iOS, and WP7 won't catch up anytime soon.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
with all the ms tripe......."great software" from Microsoft, google sucks, etc.
If thats not implying that Microsoft cant make great software, I dont know what is.
Is it possible that some people ACTUALLY LIKE the Win7 GUI more than OSX, KDE, and Fluxbox? That we like a GUI that is minimal, usable, has sane defaults (and keyboard shortcuts), and doesnt get in your way?
No, of course not. Anyone claiming so is spouting "ms tripe".
If Microsoft is releasing their Superphone in 4Q12, will they announce its end-of-life the quarter before or the quarter after? Remember the Kin's April announcement and June retirement?
April and June are in the same quarter.
Xbox 360 is for applications that are games and use a gamepad. Windows is for applications that use a mouse and keyboard, or rarely a gamepad. Windows Phone 7 is for applications that use a touch screen. The input device feels differ so much among those that one style of real-time game isn't going to be very playable across all three, as anyone who has tried the classic console emulators for Android has discovered. The only games that stand a chance of being portable are the turn-based ones.
Microsoft Research pumps out some amazing stuff - much of which is not commercially viable, but amazing nonetheless.
In fact, it IS their corporate culture that prevents them from really pulling off some amazing stuff.
Microsoft is organized as a series of fiefdoms - you have various divisions that will NOT talk to each other. The Windows sub-teams may have SOME communication with each other, but they don't talk to the Office team. Neither talks with the online (Windows Live) team, and probably none of them talk at all with the Entertainment and Devices sub-teams (which includes Windows Embedded, Xbox, and Windows Phone). Oh yeah, and the IE team and dev tools (Visual Studio) teams...
At best, Microsoft is really just a set of independent businesses with their own schedules, releases, and own ideas of doing stuff. The only difference is that each team can access the source code of other teams.
An anecdote - a friend of mine was working on Windows CE, and he found a memory leak bug in the javascript interpreter. He went over to someone he knew on the IE team and talked to them about it. The IE project manager saw this and got pissed off, chewed out the Windows CE project manager over this, etc. In the end, no one on the IE team wanted to "own" the bug (it was an IE bug, after all) as it was for a product they've shipped and it doesn't concern them anymore when they're working on the latest and greatest.
In the end, the only way any sort of engineering communications goes on between teams (without filtering through the hierarchy of managers and other crap) seems to be through contractors. People would sit down and do nothing, other than routing questions between their team's developers to another contractor who can route the question to the right developer.
Hell, i could bet you could split up Microsoft along these team lines, and nothing would change - it's that bad.
No, the Nokia N9 is "MeeGo Harmattan", not "Maemo Harmattan" (note you spelled it incorrectly too).
MeeGo is a marketing term, and the Nokia N9 has it. Technicalities are not relevant with marketing.
Also, it's Qt, not QT.
If you have one, check it...Settings/About product. On my N950, which I have to hand and runs the same s/w, it says :
"MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan"
Make no mistake, it *is* MeeGo. It might not be the same as you get on the public web site, or on other devices, but it *is* MeeGo.
Max.