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Speculating On What a Microsoft Superphone Might Mean
smitty777 writes "Forbes is running an intriguing story on a new 'Superphone' under development by the folks at Microsoft. According to this leaked MS roadmap document, the plan is to build the Apollo-based phone in the 4th quarter of 2012. FTA: 'In the end, however, none of this matters. Microsoft's "peek into the future" is barely a glimpse into what the company may or may not have planned for 2012. While the "superphone" bullet is worth noting, it is not the confirmation of a revolutionary new product. At best, it indicates that Microsoft wishes to compete with Apple by offering a product that is, well, super.' It's also interesting that Sony and AT&T also appear to be working on superphones of their own."
I expect a Super cool bluescreen on that phone!
Winphone 7 isn't *that* good.
However ... It's a good start considering they wiped the Windows CE slate clean and implemented XNA and Silverlight on a decent minimum-specced hardware base.
It's still *very* immature, considering the polish of its competitors.
Nice astroturf. Too bad it hasn't much to do with TFA, but then again neither does the summary. Which can be be summarized as
How exciting.
(Sarcasm in the TFA)
It's a hyperbolic expansion of a marketing blurb that in essence, means absolutely nothing except to perhaps cement "superphone" as the next idiotic buzzword in this segment.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
one phone for all bands? so you can get the phone and use it on any network with have to buy a ATT or sprint one like the iphone. No having the phone locked to the carrier you choose.
You have a strong stomach. I think I threw up in the back of my mouth.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Microsoft has deep pockets and is not shy to use them to support a money pit until it becomes a success (like the xbox). Maybe this phone thing will be a success, but I hope they will come up with something better than Windows CE which, as a developer, was painful to work with.
lucm, indeed.
Honestly, I can't think of anything that would immature about it.. In fact, especially the UI is great once you've tried it. Easily beats Android and even iPhone too.
Also, development on WP7 phones is ridiculously easy, as you point out. I'm more than happy that Nokia finally dropped Symbian, which was a *major* pain in the ass to even set up development environment for. XNA, Silverlight etc make it ridiculously easy to do apps for WP7.
Only bad thing about WP7 is that you can't run apps outside markets as easily as with old Windows Mobile's. It really sucks. But it's something iPhone and Android mandated, so blame is on them.
More pre-release Microsoft hype about a vapor product that is going to change the world. What ever happened to Windows Phone 7 changing the world? Remember Windows Phone 7? Neither do I.
It's only super till the next big thing arrives.
Silence is a state of mime.
Microsoft reminds me of General Motors.
The capability of both companies is immense, yet due to various internal
influences, both companies have an overwhelming tendency to produce
things which are mediocre at best and outright repulsive when compared
to alternative choices, this with distressing regularity.
Microsoft could produce an amazing phone, but it will suck in ways which
matter to smart users, who won't want to use it, much less buy it. Just
wait and see.
iPhones are a commodity with a certain amount of cache, it will eventually collapse. Android is the reasonably priced alternative used by the masses. Unless MS can come in with phones at half the price of Android phones with all the features this will be a two pony race for some time. As Android and Chrome grow though I suspect it could eventually eat into the Windows market which is the biggest strength that MS has for making Windows mobile viable. Of course this is all speculation and at best conjecture. Things will play out with time, one thing is certain though is that Android will take 50% of the market alone and eventually start eating Apple's lunch if MS can't compete.
Got laid tonight ... check.
Cool story bro.
I dont think there's been a single other player out there who can stand to compete against Microsoft in it's ability to generate huge amounts of press and fanfare in unreleased products that ultimately become unparalleled market failures.
Frankly, Microsoft would do well to take a note from Apple's playbook and SHUT THE FUCK UP about the product until it's release instead of blathering like a spastic child about it's vaporware, leaking feature after feature and allowing the competition to catch up or even surpass it's abilities before the product is even launched.
Fuck all.
Because most of modern smart phones seem to be lacking in that department. My 10 year old nokia has better reception, better sound quality, longer battery life and doesn't shatter when I drop it by accident. To me, a superphone would at least be able to do this. Any added features that do not take away one of the previous named, is a benefit, but not required.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
One word:
Astroturf.
We're super, thanks for asking.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
so that "superphone" means they will have something which supports today's hardware sometime in 2013. Remember, "super" can be a relative term and in this case it means it'll be better than the previous versions of Windows Phone( 7.x). There's little doubt that by 2013, both iOS and Android will be super duper phones compared to this Microsoft superphone.
OT: is a Windows Phone based phone called a Windows Phone phone? Android based phones are called Android phones.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
This obvious troll is obvious has gotten out of hand.
Seriously, it would be wonderful, just once, for InterestingInsightbitesCmdPony et al ad infinitum to STFU, and perhaps enter the fray once the discussion begins, rather than rushing to be the first post with all the ms tripe.
Ducks, "great software" from Microsoft, google sucks, etc.
All just pure bullshit and astroturf.
With the added bonus of modding oneself up, with who-knows-how-many aliases, and modding anyone who points out the obvious troll, down.
Really, it would be nice to, just once, to read a discussion that isn't anchored by some preselected MS astroturf.
cheers,
the competition to deliver something better, like a Megaphone!
Next years winphone looks a lot like last years Android phone. This is indeed great progress, but too little too late to matter.
Indeed, Microsoft could produce an amazing *anything*, but they are hobbled by their own situation.
When it comes to a phone, unless they go the route of the XBox, where they build it themselves, there is no way to keep it secret when so many other vendors have to have access to the plans to get their own version out. Thus, companies like Apple and Google can move faster and mitigate any new or innovative features said phone might actually have.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
Oh please. I just read a survey that 2% of Europeans are even considering Nokia / MS. It is and was DOA.
I was a Windows guy for portable stuff for many years because they were usually the first to market with the "killer apps" that I needed. (Apps not necessarily meaning applications but also features.) Honestly, M$-based PDAs had some killer features back in the day. But what they've got on the phone market now is a joke. They're a distant third these days. One or two phones per carrier, some still on 6.5 which is 2 years old now. Verizon doesn't even have a 4G WinMo smartphone. It's pretty pathetic. Apple's nice but they've always been behind the curve in connectivity. Last OS to get tethering, still don't have 4G, etc. Android's been at the cutting edge for a while now and, unless they totally drop the ball, it will be hard to pull existing customers away from the platform.
I made the switch a couple weeks ago and haven't looked back. It doesn't really matter to me what Microsoft puts out in the next few years because I don't think they'll be able to catch up, let alone regain the lead. The only hope they have is to go after business clients with cloud computing, workstation docks, etc. Of course, they'd still be playing catchup to Android. Already got laptop and desktop docks for Android phones along with google docs to work on your documents from any device.
It's fascinating to watch Microsoft fail in market after market where it didn't start with a monopoly, like in mobile devices generally, phones specifically, tablets specifically, media generally, mobile media players specifically, and everything else.
Except for mouse and keyboard, and in games both console and PC. Why are those different from the rest? Maybe because mouse and keyboard are just extensions of the Windows brand monopoly on the desktop, with no real brand competition whatsoever. And maybe in games the competitors each have their own monopolies, and the competition is the kind Microsoft likes: based on spending a lot of money and running a corrupt supply chain / marketing system rather than on quality.
--
make install -not war
Is this phone cheaper? Who is buying this phone? Who is selling this phone to whom and how?
Early Android sales was much about competitors "getting something comparable to an iphone to sell" as it was about consumers "getting something comparable to an iphone on their network".
One cannot just look at product to explain sales.
Ducks, "great software" from Microsoft, google sucks, etc.
All just pure bullshit and astroturf.
Please explain why you want to forbid someone from having a positive opinion about microsoft products?
I use their compilers daily and couldn't be more happier. Its my opinion that their developer tools are superior to everything else that I've used.
Define "great products".
I'll remind you that each of the products you cite had competition, until Microsoft used their monopolistic advantages to squash that competition.
If, in truth, Microsoft has any "great products", the competitor's products were sometimes greater. It sucks to be deprived of those products, just because Microsoft had the influence to crush them. Look at the close call we had with Java. Imagine a world in which the only surviving JVM was Microsoft's own version.
Those people who define "great products" as those products promoted by the most successful mega corporations would certainly agree with you that Microsoft has a lot of great products. Those of us who define "great products" differently will continue to disagree with you.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
It's a coin toss. Do you want companies telling you what they're trying to do so you can prepare for changes, or do you want to be broadsided by a truly innovative product developed in secure isolation?
I'd argue that if a company is working on something truly revolutionary, it's there obligation to let others know about it so they can issue the layoff notices before having their lunch eaten. :p
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Only bad thing about WP7 is that you can't run apps outside markets as easily as with old Windows Mobile's. It really sucks. But it's something iPhone and Android mandated, so blame is on them.
Erm.. android? erm... no there is a nice simple setting where you can chose to install things not from the official android market, there are also other markets such as the app brain market for android.... so yer kinda of .. well way off the mark
Outlook is actually good software if you need email + calendar. I really haven't found anything as good. The Bat! sure comes as close and is lightweight as hell, but it just doesn't have the same integration and feel either. It's the best try so far, at least.
If you cant recognize that Microsoft has made SOME great products, then youre either ignorant or a fanboy, and probably both. Examples: Exchange, Outlook, Excel, Visio (FINALLY there is a worthy competitor in Gliffy),
Win7 (Hows gnome3 / Unity treating you?), etc.
Nice try.
So I'm either ignorant or a fanboy? How's about neither. Try realist. I don't recall saying that MS has made NO great products. The same way I didn't say I hated ducks. But keep demonstrating where your level of comprehension is, and perhaps I can dumb my posts down (even more) for you.
Gnome/Unity? Seriously? Fluxbox, ftw.
Keep flaming, tho. Looks good on you.
cheers,
Nokia has been preparing their Windows Phone 7 line-up. Their Nokia Lumia smart phone has beat sales in many European countries and Australia in December and November, even topping iPhone and every Android phone. It is also a very solid offering. I think both Microsoft and Nokia did the right to go together. Great hardware from Nokia and great software from Microsoft. That combination is pure gold.
You silly little WP troll. The Lumina 800 has been a flop in Europe and it'll also be a flop in the US joining the list of all other WP7 flops that have come before it.
Here's The Guardian's review of the Lumina:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/dec/30/nokia-lumia-800-goodbye?newsfeed=true
Outlook! That is the absolute worst MUA ever. It's defaults and broken replies have ruined email forever resulting in everybody using TOFU messages to make any discussion/question for more than just 1 point per email impossible.
A "superphone" should be super strong. It should be able to handle being run over by a car, immersion in water, and falling off a building.
Like the Sonim XP3, the Kyocera KX12, and the Casio Ravine phones, all of which can do that. Those thin black plastic things, not rigid enough to survive and not flexible enough to bend when necessary, aren't "super".
Another thing a "superphone" should have is fallback to Iridium satellite links. None of this "no service" crap.
Supermodels - ha! Nothing super about them. Spoiled, stupid little stick-figures with poofy lips who think only about themselves. I used to design for GODS!
one phone for all bands? so you can get the phone and use it on any network with have to buy a ATT or sprint one like the iphone. No having the phone locked to the carrier you choose.
My iPhone 4S works with any carrier...
Especially since it's 11:42am by his post.
I like Android, I think it's good, I've been using it for the past year. I used an iPhone for the previous year or so.
I don't think there is any question that on things like graphics and UI issues, iOS is more polished. Apple is very good at the user experience.
Android is a good balance. My android phone has more options, more customizability. I used a Blackberry before this, and it really took the cake on options/customizability (to the point of confusion, often).
Android has strengths and weaknesses, polish is one of the weaknesses.
That "leaked" roadmap is what Steve Ballmer get's paid billions of dollars to shit out quarter after quarter. *sigh* I hate my job....
No, I think superphone is just about right. The only thing that prevented their desktops from being superdesktops was that most people aren't strong enough to send them sailing across the room after the umpteenth random CTD or other error.
Are you certain about that? I would think that for a phone to be GSM and CDMA it would need to have hardware for both on board... doesn't seem like a very cost effective way to manufacture. Interesting...
Indeed, Microsoft could produce an amazing *anything*, but they are hobbled by their own situation.
It always amazes me that some people still believe Microsoft is just chock full o' amazing ideas that would overwhelm the world - if ONLY their corporate culture didn't get in the way.
There's simply no evidence for this. Microsoft has done very little innovation - most of their successful products have resulted form iterative fine-tuning on ideas that originated elsewhere (e.g. Windows, Office). They've done this very well at times... but it's not innovative in the least.
#DeleteChrome
Honestly, I can't think of anything that would immature about it.. In fact, especially the UI is great once you've tried it. Easily beats Android and even iPhone too.
Seriously? Have you either of the other devices?
Also, development on WP7 phones is ridiculously easy, as you point out. I'm more than happy that Nokia finally dropped Symbian, which was a *major* pain in the ass to even set up development environment for. XNA, Silverlight etc make it ridiculously easy to do apps for WP7.
Agreed. Compared to Symbian, XNA/Silverlight is amazing :)
Only bad thing about WP7 is that you can't run apps outside markets as easily as with old Windows Mobile's. It really sucks. But it's something iPhone and Android mandated, so blame is on them.
Not the *only* thing, but I'm not going to enumerate them, as it's likely to be a waste of time. I am surprised you didn't mention that Microsoft has blessed a jailbreak/sideloader http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/11/official-windows-phone-7-jailbreak-now-live-for-a-fee/
*snigger*
It does have a certain amount of polish, things have certainly improved since Android 1.6.
I do get what you mean though.
Please explain why you want to forbid someone from having a positive opinion about microsoft products?
I use their compilers daily and couldn't be more happier. Its my opinion that their developer tools are superior to everything else that I've used.
Only if you explain where I said I wanted to forbid anyone from having any opinion about anything.
The portion you've quoted is an example of the general tone of the OP's numerous first posts; it's bullshit because it's constant, persistent, and ultimately exasperating, not because it's necessarily untrue or exaggerated.
Perhaps, rather than "setting the stage", and anchoring every discussion each and every time there's a chance to promote MS and/or dis anyone but MS (google, linux, geese), our wizard can hold off and enter once the discussion has begun. Methinks his "points" may not stand much of a chance, once the tone of the discussion is set by someone else.
cheers,
I dont think there's been a single other player out there who can stand to compete against Microsoft in it's ability to generate huge amounts of press and fanfare in unreleased products that ultimately become unparalleled market failures.
Frankly, Microsoft would do well to take a note from Apple's playbook and SHUT THE FUCK UP about the product until it's release instead of blathering like a spastic child about it's vaporware, leaking feature after feature and allowing the competition to catch up or even surpass it's abilities before the product is even launched.
They don't have much else to talk about. Their sales suck. They are years behind the curve on most features that people want. Nobody cares (except MS employees, shills and bloggers), and the new UI is not doing a friggin thing for them. If that new UI has the same effect when it comes to the desktop, they will have even bigger problems. Its pretty tough for them to try to be in that market and get your ass kicked day in and day out. To have any hope of being a respected player, all they can do is talk. As pitiful as it sounds, it still seems to generate some press.
Perhaps the savings of not having to deal with multiple phone models outweighs the costs of including hardware for multiple bands? I don't know, but this is a guess.
SSC
you might be correct but the iPhone is the standard by which all other phones are measured.
Even if you hate Apple with a vengance, you should be able to admit that the release of the iPhone shook up the market in a bit way.
That in itself spurred Google on to make radical changes to Android thus giving birth to the Android we know it today.
If Apple had not entered the market the smartphone market would be very different from what it is today.
finally, even if Apple is a bit player then selling 30M+ Smartphones Phones a year is the sort of business that Nokia would give their eye teeth for at the moment.
Depends on your phone. I bought an HTC a while ago (my first smartphone) and thought it was pretty neat. I was surprised at how much different other Android phones were when I compared them, particularly the lack of consistency between the various apps. (HTC includes their own media player, mail, calendar, etc. so it all looks the same throughout.) I have a few gripes with my phone, but on the whole I'm very satisfied with it.
Didn't we hear the same crap about the Zune over the iPod a few years back? Big hat, no cattle.
- Exciting features delivered with disappointment
- Revolutionary change followed by a miserable user experience
- Energetic marketing strategy followed up with monotonous patching and bugfixes
- missed boats and opportunities
- stale product model
- lotta' MEH
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
The Lumina 800 is made of parts recycled from the N9 (which is a "super phone"). Except for the processor (ARM - N9 Snapdragon - Lumina ) it uses the same case, glass, and most of the internals. I don't know if the front facing camera that the N9 has is just missing, or if WP7 just can't handle two cameras.
Nokia would have been better off sticking with Maemo (the N9 is not really MeeGo). It is truly beautiful.
On a side note, does anyone know if Microsoft got copy and paste working on WP7? Or have they fixed the WiFi so it can connect other than DHCP?
I bought an N9 for my phone collection. It's smoothness and functionality is much more than I expected. It could have been the next iPhone.
Really.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Here's my take. I think Microsoft wants to unify their operating systems.
Windows Phone was the first "Metro" experience, but it runs on an old CE kernel and the stack above that is Silverlight (and XNA). Metro is huge. It's the first really new user interface Microsoft's shipped since Windows 95. Metro makes classic Windows and even iPhone and Android feel ancient -- the same old square icons on a desktop we've all been using for the last several decades.
Windows 8 brings Metro to the desktop, laptop, and tablet world. This world, though, is built on the NT kernel, with the WinRT API above that. Sure, you can build Silverlight-like apps in Windows 8 Metro, it might even be trivial to port your WP app to Windows 8 Metro, but you can't easily go the other way.
So, what can Microsoft do about this? Well, it's easy, move Windows Phone onto the NT kernel, and carry over the bulk of the WinRT API. This would make developing your Windows app for any form factor, from desktops to phones, a very easy task. Throw in some nice Visual Studio and Blend templates for re-shaping your app to fit the various form factors, and you've got something really compelling.
The problem with that? Well, today's Windows Phone hardware probably isn't sufficient to drive an NT+WinRT OS. Enter "Superphones."
Superphones, I'm guessing, are the first generation of Windows Phone that run on the NT kernel and support the WinRT (or at least enough of it for most apps.) Note the Apollo release timing is not far from the expected Windows 8 release. Put that together with the recent news that the Windows Phone chief was put in charge of a "a new role working for me on a time-critical opportunity focused on driving maximum impact in 2012 with Windows Phone and Windows 8", and there might be something to this.
So, what do you all think. Am I crazy? Would "same API" across all devices be a worthy Microsoft goal? An achievable one? And what about X-box? Could Microsoft pull off the hat-trick, and unify all of their major platforms under a Metro front end? No doubt that's a tall order, and there are three CPU architectures to deal with. But Microsoft is a big and wealthy company.
Don't forget the web variant, OWA. "Shit" is too kind of a word.
*shakes head*
slashdot has degenerated into this ape-like group mentality where intellectual dissent results in questions regarding the holders integrity, intellect, and right to express themselves.
continue your idiotic attempts to quash anything resembling a threatening idea, and soon you'll all just be high-fiving each other by yourselves while reality presents you with an ever-lengthening list of things for you to bitch about en-masse.
grow the fuck up, develop a sense of intellectual individuality, and stop swinging from each others nuts. stop being a ragtag group of fuckup me-too!s and dare to think. thats what the wasted organ in your head is meant for, you know.
>Really, it would be nice to, just once, to read a discussion that isn't anchored by some preselected MS astroturf.
no, it would be nice if the reflexive microsoft demonizers could find something better to do with their lives than fight a losing ideological battle by taking almost every slashdot discussion hostage with their trolling claims of shillery and astroturfing. it would be nice if you ever backed up any inflammatory statement with even a semblance of impartial data, or better yet, presented respectful arguments supported by solid data.
"cheers" indeed. I hope 2012 brings you a throught-process renaissance
\When i had to root and install a cooked rom just to get the camera to take more than 2 pictures in a row, there is a problem.
Yes, there is. Return your phone to the manufacturer and get a brand new one for free. No need to flash your ROM to take two pictures without crashing.
That would be useful if the single reason I used MSVC was to create code that benefits from whatever optimization that ICC does better. (I still don't believe your claims, just taking them at face value)
MSVC has better debug support via Visual Studio. It understands the memory layout of most of the C++ containers out of box. The edit and continue feature alone cuts down on a large chunk of my dev. time. The only thing I dislike about Visual Studio is the editor. It parses the code and stores it into some large database file (.sdf w/e that is) that sucks up a ton of CPU time. I wish it supported a configuration where the Visual Studio would load all of the source code in some kind of 'read-only' mode and I could use an external editor to make changes that it synced back.
We could go on forever, however, riddle me this:
When you perused the headline, then the summary...did you have any *inkling* whatsoever, that InterestingFella would have the first post? That it would have the same timestamp as the submission? (ya, it's Firehose! yep, Firehose!). That, despite having the same timestamp, the spelling/grammar is usually good; that the thoughts seem pretty-well laid out, embedded links, sales info? Cursory competitor bash? Shall I continue?
Of course you did. If it's not frosty piss, it's this weeks incarnation of the same dude.
ergo...obvious.
How many accounts does one have to have on this site, anyway?
cheers
The phone market is done and dusted. People have increasing investment (in money and in time spent learning to use) a collection of applications, and the market for "dumb phone to smart phone" transition is finished. The only market left is competing head-on to switch people away from iPhone (good luck with that) or from Android (fractionally easier, as there's evidence people can be switch to Apple).
In order to compete, Microsoft would either have to completely kill Apple stone-dead in functionality and quality, with a release one product going against a mature product with a mature eco-system (didn't Zune teach them _anything_?) or would have to undercut the commodity Android vendors on price, which is essentially impossible now, never mind in a year's time.
Microsoft are increasing slow to react, and are arriving both late and under-armed at every fight. Music Player, Smart Phone, Tablet: they've missed all three. They need to find a new place to innovate, and for as long as they refuse to do anything which isn't based around Windows, that's going to get harder and harder for them.
What it means, no matter how good it is technically, is that it will fail through bad marketing.
Microsoft has its good points and bad points, but where it really, really always fails, is marketing. A "zune", in brown, that squirts? What complete and utter retard thought that would work?
One example of many over the past 7 or 8 years that just prove that their marketing droids are talking to the wrong people in their focus groups. Microsoft products are not cool.... at all, in any way, to anyone. Business products don't need to be cool, but tech like a phone absolutely needs to be cool to some demographic, regardless of its functionality.
It could be the best phone ever made, but unless Microsoft fires its entire marketing dept, this phone will be DOA.
I'm sure they'll find a way to ruin it, just like many other products before that, no matter how nice they may have been in theory (Zune clusterfuck, Courier debacle, ...).
Apple releases one phone per year. Google doesn't release any phones at all.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
At the top end, Android phones are just as expensive (up front costs and monthly plans) as the iPhone. At the bottom end, the iPhone 3GS is $1 with a contract.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
On a side note, does anyone know if Microsoft got copy and paste working on WP7? Or have they fixed the WiFi so it can connect other than DHCP?
Yes, and yes.
Why would he need to be paid? It's a good product. My son's iPhone and wife's Android device look primitive in comparison to my WP7. I've only got 50,000 apps to sift through, but that will improve, I think.
I love comments like this one, which clearly proves love & hate can make you blind.
Nokia has been preparing their Windows Phone 7 line-up. Their Nokia Lumia smart phone has beat sales in many European countries and Australia in December and November, even topping iPhone and every Android phone. It is also a very solid offering. I think both Microsoft and Nokia did the right to go together. Great hardware from Nokia and great software from Microsoft. That combination is pure gold.
I suppose you are confusing the Lumia with the MeeGo-powered N9, which is the phone that's been selling unexpectedly well despite the fact that it wasn't released in a lot of markets, including but not limited to the US and UK markets.
I don't read every single story nor do I waste my time digging up past comments of posters. If your criticism is about off topic posts, then by all means use the moderation system to mark them as such. The poster obviously has a positive opinion about microsoft, I get that, but I don't see why that should necessarily be a bad thing or grounds for claiming that its simply astroturf.
If your phone can't find an AT&T, Sprint, Verizon or T-Mobile store, might I suggest you look more closely into WP7. It can do maps and stuff. ;)
It always amazes me that some people still believe Microsoft is just chock full o' amazing ideas that would overwhelm the world - if ONLY their corporate culture didn't get in the way.
There's simply no evidence for this. Microsoft has done very little innovation - most of their successful products have resulted form iterative fine-tuning on ideas that originated elsewhere (e.g. Windows, Office). They've done this very well at times... but it's not innovative in the least.
I think people are referring to the fact that a company of the size of Microsoft with that much cash flowing in, should be able to produce fantastic products. The fact that their company structure is set up to produce boring products is what is interesting.
I don't know, but it works for me.
If it's anything like Microsoft's original answer to the iPhone, I think we can be sure it will do all of those things and more!
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
If that's what's suggested, then I think a Microsoft Superphone would mean...that hell froze over. Don't get me wrong; I think Microsoft is amazing, and has done a great deal for the world. But their phone products are the biggest, steamiest nut-studded shitloafs I've had the displeasure to use. I HATED my phone when I had Windows Mobile, and the odds of them coming out with a great product all of a sudden (be mindful..they've been trying to sort this out for as long as there have been smartphones) are almost zero. Throw in the recent confusion as to whether or not Silverlight was going away, and other insantiy (like opening Microsoft stores...bascially consumer electronics stores in malls...while they decide they will no longer participate in CES) and it does not look good.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
STFU? WTF? This was a leak of a simplistic chart. Apple has managed to get actual prototypes stolen.
They are so far behind in marketshare they need to do more than create a competing phone, they need to create a better phone. It's hard to see how they can claim much marketshare quickly. the churn rate on iPhone is quite low and people who have those phones generally purchase apps they may be be hesitant to abandon for the MS phone which has a fraction of the apps that iOS has available. On the Android front there are way more models than wp models which creates great pricing deals on the 6 month old models. No I ink MS is like the Tandy of mobile phones.
There is no certainty that Android will start taking share from IPhone, it hasn't happened yet, I don't see it happening in 2012. the difference between Apple and Google is that Apple is number two in marketshare but number one in revenue. Google needs to find a way to make android more profitable, winning marketshare certainly hasn't helped.
They wiped the visible parts of the CE slate clean, but it's still the CE kernel. They needed to keep the CE guts to get the phone to market when they did. If they had started fresh, they wouldn't have made the same design compromises with the CE kernel that they did years ago. IMHO, Apple made some very smart decisions with iOS, especially in power management features. It's amazing just how much of the iPod/iPad/iPhone gets shut down when idle or doing something like watching video. I think Apple's heritage as a hardware + software company gives them a big advantage over a mostly software company like Microsoft or Google.
As far as Nokia and RIM are concerned, I really don't understand how they have managed (and continue to mange) to do almost everything wrong.
The reason is because they don't have the correct leadership. If they get someone with a similar disposition to Jobs in charge, you can bet he'll practically live at MS Research, and you'll see tons of amazing stuff get productized. The problem with MS is that monkey sitting on top of it.
Conversely, plenty of people I know are sick of iPhone problems and Apple's clausterphobic walled garden, and are looking at the android superphones for replacements.
Word up! If Microsoft really wanted to take over this market, they'd take the phone out of their superphone and just make it super. Seriously, imagine a device you could use just like a phone but without the carrier (e.g., AT&T, Verizon, Vodaphone). Not just some WiFi/Skype thing, but a 5G, video call, LEO satellite, wireless system with global coverage and no 'pay per second' or 'pay per bit' usage charges. Call it a "Microsoft fucks the carriers." That would sell BILLIONS.
Well, the do have a lot of sharp computer scientists who sold their souls for Microsoft Research. So I guess it could be the corporate structure getting in the way. On the other hand, maybe the suckiness of the company turned their brains into mush.
This is such a worn out strategy. Almost every time MS has been out done in a product area, some info "slips" out about their new fanatastic, better-than-anything-in-history product. The reason they do this... and all you business majors out there should remember this from your business strategy classes... is to freeze the market. All the possible MS customers that are completely committed to the MS brand will hold off on making a purchase of a competitor's product hoping that MS will actually deliver. And from what we've seen of late, they haven't been doing very well. Windows 7 is not too bad, but you don't have to think too hard to remember all the disappointments that they've delivered.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
Are you talking just in the mobile space? It seems to me that MS is doing just fine is OS and Office sales still, despite all that has been going on. All markets are growing - not only the tablet and phone markets (which will probably be owned by android), but the mobile PC market is still in a growth phase. The other surprising growth is actually in the custom-build PC market, so you see newegg, ncix, and other online component vendors trying to expand as fast as possible.
Outlook is actually good software if you need email + calendar. I really haven't found anything as good. The Bat! sure comes as close and is lightweight as hell, but it just doesn't have the same integration and feel either. It's the best try so far, at least.
I will admit that Microsoft kinda got the email/calendar integration right. Why "kinda"? Because it was actually a whole lot better back in Exchange 5/Outlook97 before they completely screwed it up due to security and performance concerns. Even with that said, it's still one of the better client integrations out on the market, albeit with the caveat that no one else can integrate 100% with Outlook nor Outlook's Calendaring.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
The trend is clear: Android will do to Apple what MS did in the OS space. I actually am one of the lucky Google Nexus owners, just recently switch from an N1 to the GN. I'm quite impressed with Android 4. I'm finding the iOS interface is just not aging well at all on the iPad and iPhone I'm using for development. I see the appeal of what Apple offers (integration), but it come at far too high a price. Plus, I'm used to cobbling together my own solutions. I have a mix MS and Linux-based stuff working quite well together, thanks mostly to the efforts of the linux community.
Why is this modded "-1 flamebait"? You may disagree with this (as I do - I support Android), but Flamebait != Disagree.
AccountKiller
I think you want to take that back. GM is producing good products now.
XNA, Silverlight etc make it ridiculously easy to do apps for WP7.
Only if you completely ignore the position Microsoft is in with respect to the overall market.
XNA doesn't matter. What matters is how easy it is for the developers who have already written apps for iOS and Android to port them to WP7. Microsoft is trying to apply their usual MO to a market where they have no market power, and it doesn't work. Pushing platform-specific developer tools and EEE are useless when the platform is a very small minority, because instead of locking out other platforms from software developed for yours, you lock out your own platform from software developed for the others.
So what are you saying exactly? That one should not make positive comments about MS products and dislike Google's datamining? Should we censor people who do so? Freedom of speech for those who think like me and so on, right?
If you cant recognize that Microsoft has made SOME great products, then youre either ignorant or a fanboy, and probably both. Examples: Exchange, Outlook, Excel, Visio (FINALLY there is a worthy competitor in Gliffy), Win7 (Hows gnome3 / Unity treating you?), etc.
Im just not sold on the whole Phone 7. Minimal isnt something MS does well; most of their products include the kitchen sink.
Exchange/Outlook both suck, with the exception of internal email/calendaring integration. MS managed to completely screw over 20 years of internet convention with a single product.
Excel - this is a product that does everything half-assed. It's not really good for any single use, except perhaps the most basic - spreadsheet functions. Which, btw, Visicalc did long long before them with a tiny fraction of the resource requirements.
Visio - not originally an MS product, after MS purchased Visio they promptly screwed it up. There are a number of other products out there that are far better. (OmniGraffle for one)
I've run and coded for Win7/2008 R2. Guess what? It actually sucks worse than the previous versions and gives me no reason to bother memorizing yet another randomly ordered menu system. In fact, for servers, MS has pretty much shoved me ever more into *nix systems for the last 15 years. On the desktop, I've just about run every flavor of OS you'd care to name in the past 20 years, with the exception of BeOS. That would include things like IRIX and Solaris. The MS product revamp circle speaks to a complete lack of consistency in design, provided anything was actually designed across versions.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Apple's unwillingness to yield to 3rd party apps for core functions such as enterprise mail is very infuriating. I frequently need to send out updates to attendees on a calendar item and Blackberry (and every other email /call system on PC or phone I've ever seen) makes the process of sending an email to fellow meeting attendees very straightforward -but the iPhone ( iOS 5) mail client doesn't let you do this and even makes it very hard to gather all the email addresses in a meeting to copy them and create a fresh mail send. Now, I could understand if Apple followed the model of "we make dumbed down the default apps shipped with the phone and if you want real functionality, get a more powerful 3rd party app". But Noooooooo...... Apple has designated email as something others are not allowed to provide, so you have to live with Apple's belief that if they don't give you that feature, you don't need it and you need to reexamine your life to see where you've gone wrong.
I miss my Blackberry. There's so much it doesn't do, but the core business functions and enterprise mail/calendar integration is still the best.
My guess is a phone os that takes advantage of virtualization or some type of sandboxing so that you can have a single device that you use for personal as well as business use.
XNA doesn't matter. What matters is how easy it is for the developers who have already written apps for iOS and Android to port them to WP7. Microsoft is trying to apply their usual MO to a market where they have no market power
Hey, I would you introduce you to these two small guys called Windows and Xbox360.
Frankly, Microsoft would do well to take a note from Apple's playbook and SHUT THE FUCK UP about the product until it's release instead of blathering like a spastic child about it's vaporware, leaking feature after feature and allowing the competition to catch up or even surpass it's abilities before the product is even launched.
Actually, it's a strategy MS has used over and over again when it's products are waning in the competitive market. They'll bluster and blather about all these wonderful features, and, but wait!!!... there's more!!! and inexplicably (in my mind anyways) they manage to get the entire media world to listen to them and ignore everyone else. Until they fail to deliver... Anyone else remember Chicago, Blackcomb, or Longhorn?
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
one phone for all bands? so you can get the phone and use it on any network with have to buy a ATT or sprint one like the iphone. No having the phone locked to the carrier you choose.
My iPhone 4S works with any carrier...
No. The iPhone 4S can work with any carrier in general, for the most part. A specific one cannot though, since there is a GSM model and a CDMA model. You either have the GSM or CDMA model in one phone, not both. You could however own both models...
"To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
Super duper phone!! So will it fly too? It will probably have the Ballmer mode enabled (automatically throwing chairs at Android users).
I would say MS is slow to react but not late. In fact in some cases early. They've had smart phones and tablets long before Apple. But their efforts were not as successful. However you have pointed out that their early failures are primarily due to wedging in Windows paradigm where it would not have fit.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
MS realises they can't compete in the Smartphone market so they have devised a cunning plan to create a whole new market, the superphone market.
Sure a superphone looks and acts kinda like a smartphone but that' doesn't change the fact that a smartphone is just not a superphone (It doesn't have an MS logo on it for starters).
And when the stats come rolling in, MS will be the only player in this new market so they will naturally have 100% market share.
But it doesn't end there. MS will trademark the Superphone name, effectively meaning nobody else can enter the superphone market. They'll also patent the act of making a phone super just to bolster their position.
The week after, Samsung will trump them by releasing a Megaphone. Their marketing will be so loud it will drown out MS's and pretty soon nobody will remember the superphone.
Ryans Tutorials - A collection of technology tutorials.
Nokia didn't drop symbian. It's still the biggest mobile OS in the world by a large margin.
for that to work at it's best. Same number does work that well for dual use.
Windows phone 7 is a turd.
"Superphone" Windows means what? Rocket-powered turd?
The metro UI is clueless. Clearly it was designed by people who never really "got" touch. Why is 20% of the high-resolution screen always occupied by useless black sliding bar?
Pointless, ugly and without function or art.
Rocket-powered turd.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Tried. It's abandonware. I either get the same phone with the same defect, or i get a complete piece of shit below it.
The real problem they have is that to shift the usual mindset of "oh look, Microsoft product. It'll be garbage unless you pay way more than the competition, and then it'll be merely mediocre". In fairness to them, they are slowly, infinitesimally getting a vague clue about security on Windows, and the user interface is merely poor now, instead of dire as was. They do produce workmanlike applications now, having started off poorly, briefly called in at total crap, learned a hard lesson and improved.
However, Microsoft does not have a track record of excellence, but one of mediocrity on first release followed by slow, incremental improvements. The first version of anything new from Microsoft will be crap so don't buy it. The new super phone will follow this pattern, so it'll be late 2013 before we see the iPhone-beater in its full, iPhone beating form.
The previous poster did not point out that development was ridiculously easy. He did however say, "Winphone 7 isn't *that* good."
A great UI means nothing without decent apps for the user to interface with. I am not interested in pissed-off avians or whatever game clones may be available for WP7, I want tools not entertainment. Most of the quality app makers for WM have jumped ship for Android or iOS, and WP7 won't catch up anytime soon.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
They haven't dropped it *yet*, anyway.
Also, Symbian is easy to develop for....easier than Android anyway....QtCreator is excellent.
Max.
Symbian is easy to develop for...QtCreator is amazing.
Max.
Ducks, "great software" from Microsoft, google sucks, etc
If you cant recognize that Microsoft has made SOME great products, then youre either ignorant or a fanboy, and probably both.
Wow, what a compelling argument, it supports not only the truth of what you say but also your credibility. Bringing in any facts (such as Visio was _bought_ by Microsoft) to support a contrarian view would be futile. Maybe some of their stuff do not suck as badly as the alternatives (esp. where they successfully cut off their competitor's air supply), but "great software" and "Microsoft" in one sentence???
Who cares about profitability in this sense? If Android phones keep eating market share from the iPhone (which is eventual if not massive) the need to be "more profitable" is limited. You're really comparing apples to oranges. If we calculate the value of sales of all Android phones against the iPhone you'll find it falls short, it's a matter or rigging in the stats in this case to favor one or the other. Long-term profitability is in favor of Android simply because marketing isn't going away.
At the top end, Android phones are just as expensive (up front costs and monthly plans) as the iPhone. At the bottom end, the iPhone 3GS is $1 with a contract
This is such a misnomer. An iPhone 3GS isn't comparable in terms of abilities with free android phones or low-cost models at this point. The 3GS is nearly 3 years old and falls behind every Android phone produced in the last year in terms of OS updatability (meaning you will never get iOS5 on it) versus almost every new android phone getting 4.0. I'm not arguing one is better than the other but cheap phones drive sales in many cases. Apple will always have their segment but they lost their shirt in the PC world on price and accessibility and again when the mobile market matures it'll happen there too. MS has a chance with great cheap phones to recover but it's more about beating android than taking Apple on, Apple is an also-ran that doesn't know it yet because of the massive closed-ecosystem they insist upon.
A company that got started by cheating and lying, then prospering by illegally abusing their monopoly, then losing their momentum altogether, has trouble building something that's great or inspiring, What a surprise :-)
If Microsoft is releasing their Superphone in 4Q12, will they announce its end-of-life the quarter before or the quarter after? Remember the Kin's April announcement and June retirement?
ttp://wmpoweruser.com/ looks like pseudo "theres an windows phone user community" site.
Yep, wmpoweruser is a joke. Leave anything in the comment section that doesn't tow the rah rah windows phone party line and be prepared for "This site has banned you from commenting". Pure kool-aid.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
It's going to be the current generation of phone, with an added Infiniband port. Then, you can lash a couple of thousand of them together to make a "super"-phone.
with all the ms tripe......."great software" from Microsoft, google sucks, etc.
If thats not implying that Microsoft cant make great software, I dont know what is.
Is it possible that some people ACTUALLY LIKE the Win7 GUI more than OSX, KDE, and Fluxbox? That we like a GUI that is minimal, usable, has sane defaults (and keyboard shortcuts), and doesnt get in your way?
No, of course not. Anyone claiming so is spouting "ms tripe".
OWA 2007 / 2003, yes. 2010 probably the best web interface for email out there. I prefer it over google's interface, certainly. Fast, full featured, and completely cross-browser compatible: whats not to like?
What alternative would you recommend to Exchange, then? I keep seeing this said, and Ive never seen a suitable, non-beta, maintained example given. There are some VERY recently (iRedMail, Zentyal) that might be close contenders, but thats it.
As for outlook, youll note that the best contenders for Exchange work best with Outlook, as they use MAPI (I believe).
Id be really interested to hear what you think would be a suitable contender for an LDAP-integrated, active-sync (or comparable) compatible, full email / calendaring / contacts solution would be, though-- fire away.
Maybe some of their stuff do not suck as badly as the alternatives (esp. where they successfully cut off their competitor's air supply), but "great software" and "Microsoft" in one sentence???
Exchange might have been bought a looong time ago (not sure), but it is currently developed by MS and has been for at least the last decade.
In the same way google hasn't dropped android "yet". Actually even less so, considering that my several years old s60v5 phone is still getting updates, long after support for phones of same age from apple and google is gone.
And while Elop claims that symbian will be fully phased out in favor of WP some time in far away future, that's unlikely to happen before 2016 or so, which gives you at least four more years of active support. Looking at current support models, iphone4 iterations and 2.x android support will be long gone by then.
We in the industry have been using the term "superphone" for a while now to indicate the tier that sits above the iPhone in terms of spec. It is jam-packed with very-high-spec Android devices, like the Galaxy Nexus, Motorola Droids, HTC Bionic, etc. This segment differentiates itself from the iPhone with HD resolution displays, NFC, sub 10mm thickness cabinets, dual-core processors and other techie specs. It is the only space that's really left open now that Apple has claimed the $99 to $199 space and is very crowded as a result. The only other viable space is low-end prepaid, where Pantech, ZTE, LG, Huawei and others fight it out. I have a very neat diagram of this, but I think you get the idea. So this comment on the roadmap is I'm sure nothing more than a tip of the hat to that super-high-end market spot and not a "superphone" that'll rescue Microsoft like Superman.
The new Microsoft super-phone will come with lighter, shorter and smaller tin cans and two strings for messaging redundancy.
The problem with Microsoft is that its being run by accountants, who might be well intentioned but have the creative soul of MP3 player designers, you know the "deer in the headlight" guys who never got that people just wanted to listen to their music, not play with their devices endlessly just to go from one tune to the next. (I have a cousin who was that kind of "early adopter". He also used to drive his car high as a kite while playing with the MP3 player and flicking the ash off of his roaches. Distracted driving ads were written for and because of people like him.)
Anybody who can seriously come up with an ugly brown Zune or a brain-dead Kin in this day and age should be chased from design meetings with a friggin' bull whip and a flame thrower.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Xbox 360 is for applications that are games and use a gamepad. Windows is for applications that use a mouse and keyboard, or rarely a gamepad. Windows Phone 7 is for applications that use a touch screen. The input device feels differ so much among those that one style of real-time game isn't going to be very playable across all three, as anyone who has tried the classic console emulators for Android has discovered. The only games that stand a chance of being portable are the turn-based ones.
How big is Symbian in the English-speaking world? Not everybody wants to have to target the 23 languages of the European Union as their first market.
Yes, MS should've waited to release their latest release of their phone o/s.
Is 2018 too soon?
Notice how many of the ACs are posting variations on "eat shit and die softie"? kinda sad that /. has become infested with batshit crazies. I don't know why but it seems like lately FOSS attracts the batshit. First it was OS/2, then Windows during 9x, then Apple when jobs returned, now its FOSS that have the batshit. I mean its bad when I'm on a Linux forum and say "There needs to be a stronger consumer focus and more integration when it comes to GUIs" and get told, completely seriously mind you as i read the guy's history and he was being honest, "What do you need GUIs for? How would you write a GUI to make 'for' loops?" because the guy honestly believed little Suzy the checkout girl and grandma were writing if then else statements on their holidays, now THAT is batshit!
Now as for the WinPhone no matter what your thoughts on MSFT, and personally i think Ballmer gives the Pepsi guy a run for his money on the "shitty CEO with no direction" count, but one thing you DO have to give the man credit for is his focus on developers, because without developers you don't have apps, and without apps you don't have users. Now can MSFT catch up to Android? that I honestly don't know, the WinPhone has a nice UI but Android has the buzz and momentum. I mean even my 71 year old dad who don't know shit about OSes wanted me to go with him to look at Android phones which he knew by name and THAT is a hell of a lot of buzz. Apple will probably keep a lock on the top end, that is where they have always been the strongest so i doubt WinPhone has a hope in hell of changing that. the big question is will they be able to capture the middle and low end where Android is currently king and that i honestly don't know.
I DO think though in the end we'll probably see MSFT buy Nokia and try to come out with their own custom line as they've seen with Apple not only is that where the money is at but you have MUCH better control over the user experience. i mean we've seen great Android devices and some I wouldn't use to play frisbee with my dog but frankly since jobs came back and focused the company on the consumer market you really haven't seen a shitty device come out with iOS. Having control of the hardware they can make sure the device purrs like a kitten and runs as smooth as a Swiss watch and customers LIKE that level of smooth control and functionality.
But whether MSFT can pull it off or not in my mind comes down to three key things since I believe the parts are all there its whether they can put them together and make a solid whole from them. 1.-Smooth integration with AD and GPO to take the corporate market that was once held by RIM, 2.-Integration with XBLA to attract the young and the gamers, and 3.- making it along with Skype all work seamless with Windows so its all easy peasy plug and play goodness. The parts are all there, as others have noted its easy as hell to write new apps for which will not only appeal to hobbyists and those that want to make a few bucks off the market but to corporate for rolling out custom business apps, the only real question in my mind is can they pull it off with a shitty CEO like Ballmer at the helm. looking and playing with Win 8 my gut says no, Ballmer is a follower with no follow through and he'll screw the pooch trying to rip off OSX and Android and miss the boat again. In mobile you really need to get ahead of the curve, RIM found that out the hard way when they waited and put out a bad Android clone at the last minute but to get ahead you have to not only have a good idea but STICK WITH IT. Ballmer has shown that he doesn't tough things out, he folds. But time will tell but so far i haven't seen anything that would make me think ballmer can rally the troops and pull it off.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Try using WP7.
Do you mean try before I buy or buy before I try? I can't try before I buy because none of my local friends or relatives has a WP7 phone. I am unwilling to buy before I try because $1,440 on a new 24-month phone contract is more than my limit for an impulse buy.
The next logical step is a Zune phone (zPhone?), now that the Zune has kicked Apple's ass out of the music player market. I can't wait, and I'm sure it will be delivered on schedule and perform just as they say.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
The base version will be 1G GSM, with other network technology available as premium upgrades.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Well, I don't think that's a valid claim since I don't think the CEO of Google has claimed they plan to drop Android - that is a fairly significant difference, IMO.
But, yes, until it actually *is* dropped, you can never tell if it will be or not. It *is* possible that Elop could change his mind, or quits/gets fired - since the Symbian developers were sold off to some other company (I forget who), they can still be utilised. Not so much for MeeGo, IMO.
By 'dropped', I suppose I mean that Nokia no longer have any expertise in house, plan no more support or products. I guess some services might still be supported, if it makes sense to have those services for other devices (presumably WP7 ones, if things go the way MS/Elop wants).
I wonder what about this up coming 'next billion' device/platform from Nokia...could be interesting, if it's open.
Max.
Whenever I hear the words Microsoft and smartphone in a sentence together I'm always reminded of this Internet classic where Ballmer laughs at the iPhone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U
Here are some choice quotes from this discombobulated silverback:
"$500 fully subsidized with a plan [while laughing like a wounded hyena] - I said that is the most expensive phone in the world and it doesn't appeal to business customers because it doesn't have a keyboard which makes it not a very good email machine"
"I like our strategy I like it a lot"
"We're selling millions and millions and millions of phones a year Apple is selling zero phones a year"
"In six months [Apple] will have the most expensive phone, by far ever, in the market place and let's see how the competition goes"
Outlook sucks compared to Gmail and its conversation view. Then again, every email system sucks compared to Gmail AFAIC. Nothing's more annoying than having to use my work email (on Outlook Web Access (OWA)) and try to wade through dozens of emails that are all part of the same conversation, when Gmail organizes them together automatically.
It's not just MS, it's almost any large company. It's something about humans and their organizational abilities: it's a very rare large company that's able to make great products and smart decisions with regularity. Most of the time, it seems companies grow to a certain size and then things start falling apart because they're just too big. The problem is, they're also so large and powerful that they can also crush their superior yet smaller competitors with unfair competitive practices; somehow even though they suck at making great products, they're really good at the crushing competitors unfairly part.
one phone for all bands? so you can get the phone and use it on any network with have to buy a ATT or sprint one like the iphone. No having the phone locked to the carrier you choose.
My iPhone 4S works with any carrier...
No. The iPhone 4S can work with any carrier in general, for the most part. A specific one cannot though, since there is a GSM model and a CDMA model. You either have the GSM or CDMA model in one phone, not both. You could however own both models...
Don't correct me when you clearly don't know what you're talking about and read the specification.
> the N9 is not really MeeGo
Yes, it really is MeeGo.
Max.
I have the unlocked, unsubsidized version. Nothing special about it.
Microsoft Research pumps out some amazing stuff - much of which is not commercially viable, but amazing nonetheless.
In fact, it IS their corporate culture that prevents them from really pulling off some amazing stuff.
Microsoft is organized as a series of fiefdoms - you have various divisions that will NOT talk to each other. The Windows sub-teams may have SOME communication with each other, but they don't talk to the Office team. Neither talks with the online (Windows Live) team, and probably none of them talk at all with the Entertainment and Devices sub-teams (which includes Windows Embedded, Xbox, and Windows Phone). Oh yeah, and the IE team and dev tools (Visual Studio) teams...
At best, Microsoft is really just a set of independent businesses with their own schedules, releases, and own ideas of doing stuff. The only difference is that each team can access the source code of other teams.
An anecdote - a friend of mine was working on Windows CE, and he found a memory leak bug in the javascript interpreter. He went over to someone he knew on the IE team and talked to them about it. The IE project manager saw this and got pissed off, chewed out the Windows CE project manager over this, etc. In the end, no one on the IE team wanted to "own" the bug (it was an IE bug, after all) as it was for a product they've shipped and it doesn't concern them anymore when they're working on the latest and greatest.
In the end, the only way any sort of engineering communications goes on between teams (without filtering through the hierarchy of managers and other crap) seems to be through contractors. People would sit down and do nothing, other than routing questions between their team's developers to another contractor who can route the question to the right developer.
Hell, i could bet you could split up Microsoft along these team lines, and nothing would change - it's that bad.
But Google isn't offering anything revolutionary on their phones. Microsoft is trying to compete with Apple in the "innovative" space.
When apple releases a new product, few people know what will be in it until the day its released. When Microsoft releases something, everyone has known what would be in it for over a year.
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Microsoft does have amazing talent working for them. There is no doubt about that.
Microsoft has done tons of innovation, the problem is that it takes them so long to get it out that by the time it's a real product, their competitors have had it in theirs for quite some time.
Vista was a great example of this. Microsoft demoed "wobbly windows" and other advanced UI acceleration, and Spotlight type search system back in 2002, neither of which made it into real products until 2007. Apple put them out in 2004.
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It's not Notes, that's for sure. As far as these collaborative solutions go, exchange is the top of the dung heap.
The killer app in this case is the integration of calendaring and email - and in this, MS appears to take the crown. IMAP would be the API you're looking for, although MAPI is the non-standard flawed MS specific API used by Exchange/Outlook.
Oh, and Exchange isn't LDAP integrated. It's AD integrated. When Exchange was hooked into AD, the performance of Exchange dropped by several orders of magnitude. I was able to send an email to a 25K distribution list in about 10s in Exchange 5.x, in the AD version, that same email took many hours to be delivered. Exchange/AD is one of the worst "integrations" on the planet.
As for alternatives, any IMAP mailserver/client will perform roughly equally in mail, and any iCal server/client pair work equally well for calendaring, where the problem lays is the integration of the two. BTW, external integration for MS Outlook is a major fail, as any calendar update sent out within a minute appears to be FIFO, as seconds don't appear to count. Try doing several updates in Outlook on an event, and see what results in a client on a different (non MS) calendar client/server.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I always read things like this on slashdot. People conveniently ignore all the innovations coming out of Microsoft. Try comparing office 2010 to office 95 sometime. Unlike Android, Windows Phone is not a copy of apple, but quite innovative. Windows 8 is bringing innovations that will change the face of computing in their implementation of Contracts. I don't think anyone has realized yet how huge a sea change the contract system is. The idea that my App can support social networks, data feeds, or other systems not even invented when I wrote it, is incredible. There have been hundreds of innovations sinc.e windows 3 that make the OS more intuitive and easier to use, as well as under the hood changes that people never see, like the back compat subsystem that actively patches old apps as they load.
In 20 years, linux has not managed to make a single desktop OS GUI I could teach my mother to use. Just because you don't see the innovations, doesn't mean they're not there.
No, the Nokia N9 is Maemo Harmatten. Maemo with QT screen objects. It's beautiful.
Maemo is Debian based, Meego is RPM.
apt-get moo proves it.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
No, the Nokia N9 is "MeeGo Harmattan", not "Maemo Harmattan" (note you spelled it incorrectly too).
MeeGo is a marketing term, and the Nokia N9 has it. Technicalities are not relevant with marketing.
Also, it's Qt, not QT.
If you have one, check it...Settings/About product. On my N950, which I have to hand and runs the same s/w, it says :
"MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan"
Make no mistake, it *is* MeeGo. It might not be the same as you get on the public web site, or on other devices, but it *is* MeeGo.
Max.
4. CDMA available only if iPhone 4S is sold and activated for use on a CDMA network.
So don't slag people if you aren't willing to actually read the whole specification.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
M$ are control freaks, they are talking about price competitiveness, hmm, easy guess. M$ are working on a bumb-phone a remote mobile terminal that only goes into their cloud. A phone that can just barely make a call and then be totally reliant on data the download which it present on the screen, no data connection and the phone might as well be a brick.
So will a mobile dumb terminal work, cheap entry price customers screwed on later on connection and data download costs. So smart phone users how much do you use your phones without making a connection. Of course if your looking to make your dumb-phone as a remote to control your appliances well your out of luck, can't get a connection and you've got a brick in your pocket and this thing is going to be a real data hog.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Then by your definition of "dropped", nokia did not drop symbian. They keep releasing new versions of OS and will do so for years to come. They are also constantly releasing new phones, including smartphones on symbian. They keep releasing new applications for symbian, and keep supporting developers developing for symbian actively. Their tentative roadplan had penned new symbian smartphones to be designed and released at LEAST until 2016 last time I checked.
Sybase sold Microsoft a copy of the ASE 10 series code mere months before they were planning to release ASE 11, which drastically changed the architecture and performance characteristics of the database.
The way I see it, Sybase suckered Microsoft into paying for obsolete technology.
The fact that Sybase marketing sucked and never made much inroads with the 11 or 12 series ASE databases outside their established markets was what killed Sybase, not some predatory behaviour by Microsoft.
I'm quick to blame Microsoft when they're at fault, but I'm not so naive as to let companies get away with shitty marketing or technology that they subsequently blame "monopoly abuse" for failing to win a place in the market.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Metro, Unity, and all these other "innovative" interfaces are nothing more than a desktop of big icon buttons and an attempt to force the user back to a single-tasking model from a windowing interface model that encourages multi-tasking.
It's not "innovative" -- it's a step backwards to the bad old days of green screen form processing, where you kept filling out screens and hitting submit to move through an application with no option to change the workflow from what the programmers built in.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I have an odd set of features I hope to find some day.
I have no interest in carrying a cell phone and being leashed to harassment by customers and employers 24x7. Leave a message on my landline or send an email -- I'll get back to you when I have time, not cater to your impatient demands for instant service impinging on my personal life.
Seeing as I don't want to carry around a phone all the time, what I want is a tablet device that will let me use a stylus to scribble notes and diagrams, a true replacement for pen and paper.
I want the option of having those scribblings analyzed for text content, graphical components, and an interface to clean up those scribblings and turn them into a proper document on my home/main system when I get back from collecting notes at a client site.
It might be nice to have 4G and phone connectivity from the tablet device, maybe even skype video conferencing support, but I'd rather just clip a bluetooth headset to my ear and have it talk to the tablet than deal with an actual cell phone.
If you want to get fancy, let me use the bluetooth headset to "command" the tablet through a voice interface. I don't mean being able to say "Select File. Select Save As. ..." type dialogs, but Siri Part II: Siri Meets Watson. With an actual tablet, the device has enough power to do the voice analysis and grammar parsing without resorting to a central server like Siri has to because of the low CPU power and memory of a cell phone.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
In short, I'm still waiting for someone to follow through and bring Alan Kay's ideas to market instead of trying to tell me that being able to play "Angry Birds" is more innovative and useful than being able to take notes.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Probably because on slashdot, anything pro-microsoft is going to get flamed.
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
WTF!!!!!
Now I know that you are joking.
While that is amusing we are trying to have a serious discussion here. Please try to do something more constructive than making the former MS Exchange admins laugh. It's got that name because it's a warning to swap it for something else that works.
and particularly that he decides that he needs to share this information with an anonymous hoarde of Slashdot-readers, many of which are single men, unwed, and sadly (given the amount of ho-ho-hos and nervous heh-heh-hehs), unlaid.
You mean like the Volt? Great idea, insane price.
I can buy two Ford Focus cars for the price of one Volt. And despite the lack of an electric drive train, both of them will get better highway mileage than the Volt.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
($Version)-1 was crap but the new $Version is wonderful.
Yes, I heard that about WinME, MS Exchange 5.5, IE6 and a pile of other crappy products by MS standards before and since. Does that silly bit of doubleplusgood advertisingspeak actually convince anybody?
The problem with the claim that 'their Nokia Lumia smart phone [nokia.co.uk] has beat sales in many European countries and Australia in December and November....' is just that it isn't true. As The Register reports, the the Lumia has bombed in the market, and just one model of Android phone is outselling it worldwide by more than one hundred to one. Nokia's Windows strategy is not 'going to fail', it has already failed. And consequently, so has Windows Phone.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
For a Mail Transport Agent - anything else on the planet with any sort of following is still superior even though Microsoft have had over a decade to try to fix MS Exchange. Take a look at a mailing list of MS Exchange admins to see the sort of problems we all thought we solved with email in the 1980s.
For the calendar - nearly any popular calendar system on the planet (but not quite all).
The only thing that MS Exchange has going for it is a degree of integration between the two which used to be tricky but is now as trivial as getting a gmail account or dozens of other options.
I strongly disagree with your tricky little weasel of a constraint of insisting that a single thing ticks all boxes instead of a more sensible approach of using several different applications to cover several different tasks. I'll charitably assume that you are being honest here and that you don't actually know much about MS Exchange and that it's really a suite of applications anyway instead of being a single package. If you actually do know enough to install, run, configure and do backups in MS Exchange (ie. you are actually in a position to have an idea what you are writing about), then why are you taking such a dishonest approach and trying to mislead the readers here?
Either way you are just making noise. Whether it is from ignorance or malice it is still just a waste of everyone's time and you should be ashamed of yourself.
iPhone 4S - Technically Yes, actually NO. The modem will do both, however is locked out of the factory to a carrier and can't be changed. Plus, Sprint and Verizon only allows phones they sell on their network.
My iPhone 4S isn't locked to any carrier, I bought it unlocked from Apple. How much stupidity is one required to correct in a single thread?
quite a lot obviously, I'm not even from USA but I can tell you that no, you can't just pop a sim into your unlocked bought iphone4s and have it work on a cdma network, for it to work on that network it would need to be carrier locked and the carrier would have needed to sold you it.
I bet american carriers just hate that sim-cards even exist. otherwise they could just sell all phones. that's perhaps even carrying weight behind choice to keep using cdma.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Thunderbird is absolute garbage compared to outlook, and Evolution is worse. What would you recommend as a good integrated groupware product? Preferably one that can handle about 3 GB of email, by the way.
Zimbra.
And no, Mac Mail doesnt count. Its terrible in its own way.
Why?
I suspect that Nokia was asked to develop the MS phone, In order to do so, they had to let go of Qt, the GUI software development product. Or at least, keep it at arms length.
Qt adoption will allow MS (If they adopt it), to be free to use any operating system they chose.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Outlook sucks for email. Heck even Eudora is better for email and was better in terms of UI since the 1990s.
1) Searching for stuff is much better with Eudora - you can easily have multiple search terms for the same or different fields.
2) Eudora (and other sane email clients) do not hide email addresses from you. On Outlook you have to jump through hoops to see the actual email addresses.
3) Outlook crashes more (it does restart automatically, but it does crash).
4) Outlook is often slow and unresponsive
5) You can't drag the scrollbar and scroll down while having the message titles/subject lines update as you do it.
6) Perhaps it's a configuration issue, but at my workplace Outlook/Exchange's junkmail filtering sucks - way too many false positives. It's very bad when the junkmail filtering drops one/two emails from a customer but not the other messages from the same customer on the same/related thread/topic. I get far better spam filtering when using spambayes on my primary personal email account which I've been using for more than a decade (and has been exposed to all sorts of spamming and mailing lists). So far the false positives on my spambayes set up have been very understandable.
The only reason why I'm using Outlook at work is because it's the standard email client at work, it integrates with Exchange for calendaring, and I haven't got pissed off enough to try to see if I could actually get rid of it.
That we like a GUI that is minimal, usable, has sane defaults (and keyboard shortcuts), and doesnt get in your way?
You just described OSX.
If thats not implying that Microsoft cant make great software, I dont know what is.
Microsoft has an extremely long history of churning out mediocre software which people hailed as "fantastic". You seem to have forgotten the Outlook back when it tended to auto-execute email attachments. You know - back when retrieving a deleted mail from Exchange included a database restore. Back when Word seemed to lay out its documents differently from PC to PC. (It still does). Remember Vista which people loathed? People on this site now claim it was "great". *sigh*
Groupwise. It works great at a fraction of the resources of Exchange.
http://www.novell.com/products/groupwise/
Recently I wanted to go back to 2005. If I knew all it took was reading the comments of Slashdot's declining mobile section, it could have saved me a lot of time. I find it funny people commenting on reliability and security on a phone platform that isn't riddled with malware, viruses, and security holes, while people proclaim from the heights the crappy not-even-open source platform that has all of the above. BSOD? Not since 2005. Sorry, buck-o. MS has come leaps and bounds since they hit rock bottom with Vista over half a decade ago. Vista is workable, Win7 is fantastic, Win8 is still a mystery but the Metro UI is a great advance as far as touchscreen integration is concerned. The tile grid UI and resource-greedy widgets of yesteryear are hopefully going to die a swift death, but I assume the amount of hangers-on that I see in these comments will keep the past alive because of their general fear of the unknown. It's almost irony that the MS offerings in the cell phone market "just work", whereas the one chosen by the geek community requires all of the care, setup, and fixing that made them hate Windows in the first place. And then the world moved on without all of you, while you still live firmly in this echo chamber that has seen a 20% drop in web traffic over the past year. Judging by the outdated discussions going on here (Completely ignoring the medical advances that Kinect is promising, ignoring Surface and the fact there is nothing like it in the world, and ignoring the success and redemption Win7 has brought MS in the eyes of the general market), and judging the general hypocrisy (Down with Windows and its malware and crashes... but I use Android!) I can't imagine this will be met with "astroturfer" and "paid employee", because anyone that disagrees with Slashdots infinite pool of geriatrics is automatically paid to do so. Enjoy.
The 3GS is nearly 3 years old and falls behind every Android phone produced in the last year in terms of OS updatability (meaning you will never get iOS5 on it) versus almost every new android phone getting 4.0
Funny, iOS 5 installed just fine on my nearly 3-year old 3GS, and new 3GS being sold today come with iOS5 pre-installed.
And several Android phones released in the last year will NOT get the 4.x ICS upgrade, including the LG Optimus V (released Feb 1, 2011) and Motorola Atrix (Feb 22, 2011). Per LG's update plans from a few days ago, only 11 of their phones are officially slated to get ICS. I didn't bother checking the other vendors, but it's obvious not "every" Android phone in the last year can be upgraded to the latest firmware, while a nearly 3-year old iPhone can (and I'll bet very few 2-year old Android devices, never mind 3-year old ones, will get 4.x ICS).
Apple will continue to lose overall market share. It's of course inevitable when they control every aspect of it and are the only manufacturer that runs iOS, while anyone can make dozens of models of cheap Android devices. Limiting themselves to a new model and OS features every year is also a problem, despite the irony that Apple gets flamed by haters for releasing new models "too quickly" who ignore the dozens of new Android phones are released each year.
However, you can't just write them off as an "also-ran that doesn't know it yet". Comscore reports that by end of November, Apple increased its market share by 1.4% to 28.7%. Android increased by 3.1%, RIM was down by the same amount, and Microsoft lost 0.5%.
Another way to look at it ("rigging the stats" if you want) is that Android improved on existing market share by 7%, Apple improved by 5%, RIM declined by 15.7%, and Microsoft declined by 8.8%. If there's an also-ran in this bunch it's not Apple.
"Windows Super-phone "could mean it could fly out of my window in a single bound when I get the bill,find the bugs and hear the daily 'sploit reports.
Stickin' with my "not-so-smart-phone" for now thanks.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Oh wow. Two astroturfers in one thread, both can't even focus on promoting Microsoft crap.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Because Microsoft is known to keep hordes of astroturfers on this and other sites.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Actually yes.
Microsoft is now what Inquisition was for most of the Middle Ages -- a force that nearly single-handedly held up the progress in all areas of science and engineering. We laugh at our ancestors for putting up with them, and our descendants will laugh at us for putting up with Microsoft.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
lololo,,,,,,great software from microcrap??????
There's nothing specific to the OS or anything MS when it comes to multi-band support, so as it's MS slides here I wouldn't expect anything new in this area.
If anything such multi-bands support would be on Nokia side, and the trade-offs are the same for all handset vendors. Adding more bands add cost and may call for some compromise in performance --- a wide band power amplifier is not as efficient as a narrow band one for example. Because of the tight grip US operators have on what's on their network it doesn't make much sense to support all on the same hardware: if the hardware is operator specific anyway, you might as well cost optimize the hardware and support only the operator bands. And add just a few more for international roaming for high end devices. Unless the US carriers open up their network a lot this won't change.
The above advertising trick was used to promote WinME by pretending Win98SE was rubbish (while the reverse was true) and some spectacularly bad versions of MS Exchange (as shocking as an open relay by default in 5.5 while the previous version worked OK).
Are you certain about that? I would think that for a phone to be GSM and CDMA it would need to have hardware for both on board... doesn't seem like a very cost effective way to manufacture.
Nonetheless, there are many phones which do simply have the hardware for both (there's presumably some degree of commonality which can be shared, so it's probably not exactly twice the hardware).
It's a fairly common feature on Japanese cellphones, targetted specifically at people who travel overseas...
We live, as we dream -- alone....
From developer's perspective, two biggest problems with WP7 are the lack of native code (making it very hard to port apps from more popular mobile platforms), and lack of any form of cross-app communication - it doesn't even have the ability to pass URLs and data around from app to app like iOS can, much less an actual shared file system of Android.
From user's perspective, the problem is the lack of quality useful apps. Partly this has to do with the two reasons above. Partly it's because relatively few people can be bothered to target WP7 at the moment due to its meager market share, especially since they would have to write from scratch since they can't easily port their C/C++ code from iOS and/or Android.
OSX GUI actively tries to hide how many instances of a program you have open. Have 3 excel documents? only one icon shows. Want to see what folder youve opened in finder? Hidden by the GUI.
OSX isnt terrible GUI wise, but Win7s is IMO much better and cleaner. The one thing I like better about OSX is the unified menu-bar (which Unity has now too).
My experience with it was while working on someone's macbook. We had just changed the SMTP server to one that is only reachable via VPN, and the user had several messages in outbox. Immediately on startup the program tried to connect to the smtp server, failed, and popped up one dialog box per failing message, one by one, until the system bogged down and became unresponsive (there were at least 50 messages in outbox). Of course, OSX doesnt have an example of a full screen terminal (like linux) or of an "interrupting" task manager (like windows), so we had no choice but to slowly wade into Apps/Utilities/Activity monitor and kill the whole program.
If thats not "failure", i dont know what is.
> each of the products you cite had competition, until
> Microsoft used their monopolistic advantages to squash
> that competition.
WP vs MSOffice notwithstanding. WP was a monster, it was stratospherically near `hand me that Puffs kleenex to wipe my nose after I xerox a copy on my cool Fujitsu. Monster: Hulk, arrrrggghhh.
WP, everyone else thought WP was invulnerable; they would charge like USD$800.00 per box copy at computer stores. And that was in 1980s dolares, d00d! They thought that they owned the market, office workers, businesses, corporations, home office peons were their bitches. Bend over! Then MS came in with a novel idea, they charged a vastly LESS usurious price, not economical, just not as much an overt rape. And they packaged all their shiz in a bundle too; WTF, said WP; thus whilst cosmically aware and disabled, MS fucked WP up their ass. Just desserts?
Mean time Bill Joy was coding BSD solo. That was the cosmic monopolists perspective.
Not so. You're an AC, probably never look back here again - but browse my posts. I'm not a phanboi of Linux. Linux has it's problems - and foremost among them, from my perspective, is that they are screwing users with their desktop offerings. Unity kinda blows, a lot of people agree to that. KDE kinda sucks, though fewer people agree to that. Many people are agreeing the Gnome sucks - so much so, that Mint is attempting to fork Gnome3, and make it more like Gnome2 was. Enlightenment is really cool, but it's a pain in the ass to configure properly. The rest are still cool, but they just aren't as popular.
Sound on Linux sucks ass more than any other thing. Basically, you have suckass ALSA and Pulse, or you can do the work to get OSS4 up and running. Problem with OSS4, some things (like Google Voice) don't support OSS.
I have my favorite and least favorite OS's, yes. And, it's pretty obvious what those are. But, I'm honest with myself, and with the world. Some things suck in ALL of the OS's.
It just so happens that I think Windows sucks the hardest.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
don't think anyone has realized yet how huge a sea change the contract system is. The idea that my App can support social networks, data feeds, or other systems not even invented when I wrote it, is incredible.
Wow, you mean they invented the programming interface, only about as old as programming itself? How amazing that they gave it a completely new name and pretend like it is something fascinating. Get back to work, Ballmer is looking to fire slackers.
Monstar L
I just couldn't get enough of that in Windows Mobile 6, looking forward to it in Microsoft's new superphone.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
The problem as I see it is that Microsoft management has an absolute imperative to use the same code on all platforms. So the cell phone division has absolutely no choice but to run Windows. And Windows doesn't work well on a handheld device. But Windows is Microsoft's core competency and must run on all their platforms. It's a circular argument that will continue to dominate on the desktop and continue to suck everywhere else. They can't help it; it's built into the way the company does business.
In another thread, someone suggested that Microsoft could force corporate adoption of Windows phones by making the next version of Exchange work only with Windows PCs and Windows devices. Assuming that could even be done, what that means to me is that the previous version of Exchange would be the last version ever adopted by corporate. There just isn't any longer a business imperative to run Microsoft.
You're right in that they were early to market in this genre, mostly by blindly releasing devices with a "start" button and running some version of Office and Outlook and calling it good. And it wasn't. Part of being early is that when you get it wrong, you have to recoup your mindshare in some way, and I don't think Microsoft has done that in any significant way. Windows phones featured on TV shows isn't going to do it. And pulling out of CES is the consumer equivalent of making a movie and refusing to pre-screen. It bodes ill. Personally, I thought Microsoft pulled out of CES because they didn't want consumers to touch Windows 8 and find out how much it sucks. The strategy seems to be to go from very carefully controlled demos directly to sales. $$ Profit, we all live like kings.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Um, unless the special projects group finally got the bugs worked out of Microsoft Magic Wand, [1] the cost of putting in that kind of infrastructure would be prohibitive. They would have to buy an existing carrier, which is not, I think, what you meant.
[1] The biggest issue, as I recall, was how to incorporate a "Start" button.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
It's really sad that you feel you have such a small dick that everybody who has a different opinion than yours must be in someones pay. I pity you. Please tell your mum you should be let out of the house more.
It is really sad that your dick is so small that you feel that everybody who disagrees with your religious views have to be paid shills. I pity you, and hope that once (if) you reach puberty, things will improve a little for you. If not, you can always become join a monastery or something. Somewhere where they share your religious delusions and tiny sexual organs.
/. is being overrun by the religious nutcases these days. The only thing they do is sit around their computers wanking at the fantasy of The Year of Linux on the Desktop. Anyone who says anything that goes against the Gospel gets modded down. It's pathetic in the extreme. I don't envy them the (obviously) tiny sexual organs they apparently have. The "wanking" part obviously happens using tweezers.
who have already written apps for iOS and Android to port them to WP7. Microsoft is trying to apply their usual MO to a market where they have no market power, and it doesn't work. Pushing platform-specific developer tools and EEE are useless when the platform is a very small minority
Run back to 2007 and tell Apple that.
Sheesh
Anonymous Coward with such a small dick that he can't stand anyone disagreeing with his religious convictions nor post about the same religious convictions using his own name. Pathetic. That is what the Linux Lovers United have turned into. Pathetic in the extreme.
Please note - I currently mostly write Java for JBoss running on Linux, I have balls enough to post without hiding behind AC though, and I also have balls enough to state that WP7, irrespective of market share, has by a rather significant margin, the best developer tools out there at the moment. I also prefer it over iOS (which was my main OS until I tried WP7 for a month) and Android.
Actually, that would be Apple. Microsoft isn't holding up any progress at all, and is slowly turning into one of the main contributors to FOSS. Not that religious nuts like you would know, but that's OK. For those of us in the real world, Microsoft is doing quite a lot of cool stuff. Particularly in the Enterprise. The next version of Windows Server, with the announced and demonstrated features, will significantly extend Microsoft's lead in the Enterprise.
Sorry, they do not exist in your mums basement. Tell her to let you out once in a while.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the reason for the iPhone's success was Apple's developer tools? Because that seem pretty laughable considering that it became popular before the App Store existed.
Actually, that would be Apple.
Apple does not shit up the direction of software development for non-Apple users.
Microsoft isn't holding up any progress at all, and is slowly turning into one of the main contributors to FOSS.
Microsoft contributed absolutely nothing of value to free or open source software. It submitted a giant patch (on, I think, a third attempt) to make Linux work under its shitty Windows-based virtualization. That's not contribution, it's sabotage.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Apple does not shit up the direction of software development for non-Apple users
Neither does Microsoft.
Microsoft contributed absolutely nothing of value to free or open source software
Really? So codeplex doesn't exist? Were you always this clueless or did someone remove your brain just recently? You should stop being religious and start thinking for your self (if possible, something I seriously doubt). Just the fact that you implicitly equates "Open Source" with "Linux" above shows that you are a bigoted religious nutcase.
Did I. I don't think I did. What makes you think I did? Reading comprehension is difficult I understand.
Well then what did you mean by "Run back to 2007 and tell Apple that"?
All they have to do is click on that link to see that you've backdated it three years and pretended we were writing about the Tsunami three years before it happened. What an incredibly stupid and obvious lie.
Pointing out that Apple uses platform-specific tools, both as a major player (in iOS today) and as a minor player historically. These platform specific tools have not had any impact on Apple's ability to deliver. Additionally, Android uses platform-specific tools and did, both as a minor insignificant player and as a major player today. I am saying that whether your tools are platform specific or not is irrelevant for your market penetration.
Oh, and porting from Android to WP7 is significantly easier than porting from Android to iOS for example. C# and Java as languages (not counting GUI libraries here) are so similar that you can copy and past code unmodified a lot of the time, and with tiny modifications all of the time. C# is Java on steroids you could say. Oh, and if you want to argue Java/C#, keep in mind that I was part of a team that delivered large commercial apps in Java as far back as 1997. C# today is what Java could have been if it had not been managed by a committee. I still do a lot of development in Java, but VS2010 and C# leaves all Java tools in the dust at the moment. Which is a little sad actually.
I'll charitably assume that you are being honest here and that you don't actually know much about MS Exchange and that it's really a suite of applications anyway instead of being a single package. If you actually do know enough to install, run, configure and do backups in MS Exchange (ie. you are actually in a position to have an idea what you are writing about),
Youre playing semantics. Ive been doing Exchange installs and migrations for years, and I cant really argue that you could define "suite" such that Exchange fits the bill, but it really, truly is a single product package.
The fact that it integrates all together with a strong LDAP backend without needing to screw with PAM and hoping the version of PAM installed works with the version of your mail server and that somehow it will all play nicely with that open-LDAP server-- why is that a bad thing again?
Flamebait? Someone was offended by that guy's post? Wow. Yeah, it's a stupid, shilly comment, but hardly flamebait.
A Microsoft product that is superior to anyone's?? With the exception of Excel they've never done that before, never even come close. And it took them decades to get Excel right.
Microsoft making a superphone? LOL!!! You guys are hilarious.
Free Martian Whores!
Pointing out that Apple uses platform-specific tools, both as a major player (in iOS today) and as a minor player historically. These platform specific tools have not had any impact on Apple's ability to deliver.
That is because Apple uses a completely different strategy. It isn't about "developers developers developers," it's about "users users users." The iPhone was already a huge success before the App Store, and at that point developers will use whatever tools they have available in order to reach that large customer base. The disadvantage of being less portable was overcome by the advantage of a large existing customer base.
The problem for Microsoft is that they're trying to do it the other way around, by attracting developers with supposedly better but platform-specific developer tools, before they have a user base. But what good is that when the applications are being written for other platforms first? Even if you can take an Android application and run it through a meat grinder to make it into C#, the best you can do is minimize the disadvantage caused by having to port it. You get no advantage from the supposedly better Microsoft stuff because you can't use any of it: By the time you have something portable enough to run on both iOS and Android, it almost never makes sense to go back and make any kind of nontrivial changes to it in order to take advantage of proprietary features of a small minority platform.
Which leaves Microsoft still in the chicken and egg situation. WP7 has no significant advantage over Android and iOS that can overcome the user preference for platforms with more apps (and the developer tools don't provide one), yet developers have little incentive to spend many hours rewriting their code for WP7 before there exists any significant customer base.
Really? So codeplex doesn't exist?
It does. And contains shit.
You should stop being religious and start thinking for your self (if possible, something I seriously doubt). Just the fact that you implicitly equates "Open Source" with "Linux" above shows that you are a bigoted religious nutcase.
If it doesn't work on Linux, it is not written with any worthwhile goal in mind.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I have news for you -- it's perfectly ok to have enemies and apply an effort to defeat them.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
wtf is with the mods marking pro-MS posts flamebait and troll?
There's no "commenter is a shill" moderation. The comment you're referring to is no troll, but I'd have simply modded it "overrated" since it's an incredibly stupid comment that goes against all reality; MS making ANY OS or software that doesn't suck horribly? MS will never make a "super" phone of a super anything. With the exception of MS Mice and Excel, every single product Microsoft came out with after 1995 was buggy, bloated, and with horrible interfaces.
Maybe the GP was looking for +5 funny? That would have been a good moderation.
Free Martian Whores!
Have you actually tried WP7 or tried developing for it? Your blind hatred is showing.
AccountKiller
And yet nobody's modded that flamebait you just posted as such. "Religious nutcases" who worship Apple and Linux? Flamebait. Yes, there are a few Linux and Apple (and even MS) zealots, but not the majority.
I don't envy them the (obviously) tiny sexual organs they apparently have. The "wanking" part obviously happens using tweezers.
And yet, you weren't modded down, despite the very obviousness of your flame/master baiting.
The fact is, the GGP was an obvious shill; the entire comment was delivered in marketspeak and did not deserve to be seen. I would have modded him "funny" he was so over the top -- MS, who has produced nothing but pure crap for twenty years (with the exception of Excel) is going to make a phone OS that blows everyone away?
LOL!
Free Martian Whores!
Windows sucks and always has. Each iteration sucks a little less, but they're still buggy, bloated, and with a crappy UI (no, "shiny" has no part in useability). Windows only succeeded because IBM made sure that DOS was the dominant OS. If IBM had bought the other guy's OS, your computer would be running a desktop shell on top of CP/M instead of on top of DOS.
As to the X-Box, my daughter who works at GameStop tells me they're crap that break often, with design flaws that she's sure are deliberate (I don't; I just think MS's competence leaves much to be desired).
The GP is right; the apps are already developed, they only need to be ported. Making them rewrite them completely is brain-dead stupid. I predict that MS will do as well with their smartphone OS as they were with their MP3 player.
Free Martian Whores!
It does. And contains shit.
Not only are you an ignorant moron, you are also a disrespectful piece of turd. The only shit so far is what is contained in your tiny head.
If it doesn't work on Linux, it is not written with any worthwhile goal in mind.
Again, you should lay off the cool aid and drop the religion. You are exactly what shows that so many Linux zealots are retarded morons. For the record, I do a significant amount of development on Linux (on JBoss mostly). What I am not however, is totally religious about my platform. You need to take your meds and try to get out some more.
Even if you can take an Android application and run it through a meat grinder to make it into C#,
You can't. The GUI stuff is platform specific, and you can not "meat grind" Android GUI stuff into XAML (at least not currently). Still, the majority of code is non-GUI, and that will port easily. Then you add the GUI specifics, and you have taken advantage of the improved WP7 GUI.
You are right that there is currently little incentive for developers to be on WP7 though, and still more than 50 000 apps have been developed. Not bad for a platform that is one year old and which there is no point in developing for.
Incidentally, the WP7 market share is just a tiny bit lower than the Apple Macintosh market share was a few years ago, with a significantly larger potential market. Was the Apple market of a handful of years ago dead and without developers?
The parent comment is identical to his comment to another poster. It's obscene, it's flamebait, it's a troll and it's reducndant. Why is the guy still sitting at 1? He should have been modded to oblivion yesterday.
Terjeber, why are you so focused on dicks? Are you female, or gay? At any rate, your fascination with male genetalia is troubling. Perhaps you should seek psychaitric help?
If you're still in high school don't bother, teenagers are normally insane (If you want a scientific study I can point you to at least one).
Free Martian Whores!
Have you actually tried WP7 or tried developing for it? Your blind hatred is showing.
A leopard doesn't change its spots. I've been using MS software for thirty years, and almost everything after DOS 6 was utter crap. They are getting better; my notebook has Win 7 and it's head and shoulders above XP (except for the Control Panel, whoever wrote that interface needs a different occupation), but it's still nowhere as useable as KDE.
No, I don't like Microsoft; but the reason I don't like them is because I use their products. They've made exactly ONE product I approve of, Excel.
The Win phone will go over about as well as the Zune, for the same reasons.
When you buy a non-Apple computer, it has Windows preinstalled and you can't get an alternative OS. Not so with phones; MS actually has competetion. Historically, they haven't been able to handle competetion without using their desktop monopoly.
Free Martian Whores!