Slashdot Mirror


SCADA Vulnerabilities In Prisons Could Open Cell Doors

Orome1 writes "Many prisons and jails use SCADA systems with PLCs to open and close doors. Using original and publicly available exploits along with evaluating vulnerabilities in electronic and physical security designs, researchers discovered significant vulnerabilities in PLCs used in correctional facilities by being able to remotely flip the switches to 'open' or 'locked closed' on cell doors and gates."

39 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. U.S. prison system is flawed by SharkLaser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The SCADA system isn't flawed, the whole prison system in U.S. is. Not only have studies shown that there is no need for such locked down prison facilities, but it's also demonstrated by real life experiences in Norway. Almost all of Norway's prisons are open. Their objective isn't locking down people but correct behaviour. The purpose is to create real life environment, complete with saunas, sunbeds and own rooms and furniture. It makes much more sense too. If you just lock down people for years they are always going to stay criminals. If you try to correct their behaviour and reintroduce them to system and proper behavior, they will learn and also stay out of prisons in future. It's very telling that U.S. has one of the highest percentages of their people in prisons. That system clearly isn't working.

    1. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's very telling that U.S. has one of the highest percentages of their people in prisons. That system clearly isn't working.

      The more people in jail, the more money the private companies running the jails make. The system is working as designed.

    2. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by SharkLaser · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You need to look at complete picture when fixing bugs and vulnerabilities. There wouldn't be need for any SCADA system to begin with if U.S. fixed its prison system. Currently it's only making money for those who own prisons. It's mind blowing that something like prisons would be commercially run.

    3. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by djl4570 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not only have studies shown that there is no need for such locked down prison facilities

      What studies? In which journals were they published and where can I read an abstract?

    4. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "News for nerds, stuff that matters". I'd call prisons "stuff that matters". And nowhere did you attempt to refute any of the perfectly valid points made in the parent. You're simply complaining because he has a different opinion.

    5. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by pete6677 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The United States is not Norway. Norway does not have violent illegal immigrant gangbangers. If they did, they would have to create a real prison system.

      Look what happened when there was that shooter at the kids' camp. The police did not even know how to respond.

    6. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by billcopc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The purpose of the U.S. system isn't to rehabilitate criminals, it's to generate profits.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    7. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by SharkLaser · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look what happened when there was that shooter at the kids' camp. The police did not even know how to respond.

      Yes they did, but the shooter had planned it well. First bomb in city center and then go to an island to shoot kids. It would had been disaster everywhere in world.

      The United States is not Norway. Norway does not have violent illegal immigrant gangbangers. If they did, they would have to create a real prison system.

      Which is mostly caused by the stupid war on drugs. If you just let your people get high there wouldn't be any reason for such violent immigrant crimes that mostly come from Mexico. There was lots of crime involving bootleg alcohol when it was banned too. All that went away when alcohol was legalized.

    8. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quite—it would also mean there would be less motivation to attack the software at prisons in the first place. I completely agree that such a discussion is relevant to the discussion at hand.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    9. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There was lots of crime involving bootleg alcohol when it was banned too. All that went away when alcohol was legalized.

      Actually it diversified - it was a huge boost for organized crime syndicates like the mafia. We should expect the same sort of 50+ year run for everybody who came up in the drug cartel system to die off before we are really free of the effects of the drug war. Just in time for everybody to forget the lessons of the past and shoot ourselves in the foot with some new arbitrary contraband.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    10. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are you serious? This is painfully trivial to find with Google Scholar.

      Education or punishment? Reformatory schools in Norway, 18401950 Education or punishment? Reformatory schools in Norway, 18401950
      Daddy in Prison: An Evaluation (Norwegian)
      The prison reform movement: Forlorn hope
      People's Justice - A Major Poll of Public Attitudes on Crime and Punishment
      Wilful Obstruction - The Frustration of Prison Reform
      Reaffirming Rehabilitation


      On top of that you have the highly conservative Daily Mail, as the grandparent poster linked, stating unabashedly that the system on Bastoy has proven itself as being more effective than Norwegian closed (traditional) prisons, which is a position that is quite controversial for the newspaper and not at all towing the party line. That may not have the integrity of a longitudinal study conducted by unbiased researchers, but the tour escort is quoted as saying that there has only been one attempted escape in all of Bastoy's years of operation, and that the region has the lowest re-offending rate in all of Europe despite Norway's absence of a death penalty or life sentence. These are not light claims.

      Next time please RTFA and JFGI.

      Don't shoot at ghosts, rookie. It gets you laughed at.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    11. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by SpiralSpirit · · Score: 5, Informative

      Norway is an entirely different country with a far more homogeneous population and completely different social dynamics. At the prison you mention re-offend rates were 16%. At a normal Norwegian prison (not the cushy kind) re-offend rates were only 20% - 4% more. Recidivism varies per state in the US. Arizona is pretty close to norway with 24.6%. Nevada was at 29.2. California was at 70% and connecticut was at 56%. There are social issues involved. wikipedia says that in NYC, police arrest 200k black males every year, out of a total population of 1200k. 1/6th of that particular group gets arrested EVERY YEAR. You can't solve that problem by making jail more inviting, but you can't necessarily solve it by making jail worse. Thats why its a difficult dilemma - it isn't easy to solve.

    12. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      If you try to correct their behaviour and reintroduce them to system and proper behavior, they will learn and also stay out of prisons in future.

      It is very likely that many Americans don't want that......they want to punish the people who robbed/mugged/murdered//etc them or their family member.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by kestasjk · · Score: 2

      Maybe if we install Linux in the prison monitoring systems? I'm pretty sure studies have shown that in trial studies in German prisons there was a high correlation with lower recidivism rates

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    14. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by TheLink · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can't solve that problem by making jail more inviting,

      It's not about making jail more inviting. A prison system that is civilized and actually _actively_ tries to help prisoners gives them fewer excuses to say that "They are against Us" and more reasons to feel part of the Main Tribe, to leave their current gang (their old tribe) and rejoin mainstream society (the "main tribe").

      If you feel part of the tribe you are less likely to go against it than if you feel like you're in a different tribe. After all when they're in their gang it's not just fear of punishment that keeps them in compliance with their gang traditions and rules.

      It doesn't make noncompliance impossible, but it seems more likely than if you keep reinforcing the "Us vs Them" thinking - e.g. humiliating them, treating them with contempt, not even allowing them to vote (very common in the US), etc.

      It's different to be still considered part of the tribe and merely being in a "time out" for committing crimes, than to be considered a "prisoner" and a member of a different tribe - just POWs waiting to get out and continue their war against mainstream society (who is conducting a war against them).

      Most (not all) humans are social creatures. Yes such stuff won't work on a few but maybe nothing is likely to work on them[1]. But when you have people who are members of gangs following gang rules, why can't you make them members of "Our Gang" and follow our rules?

      [1] Even so you could still keep two prisons, one more open and one more for those who have proven to be a persistent danger to society and really need to be kept away for safety reasons (but not completely isolated!) for a legally limited amount of time.

      --
    15. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by SpiralSpirit · · Score: 2, Funny

      this year is obviously the year of the linux prison.

    16. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by SharkLaser · · Score: 2, Funny

      BSD already has jails!

    17. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by Genda · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is a fundamentalist, puritanical desire to render retribution from prisoners instead of addressing the real underlying issues. The current system is disaster to the guilty it warehouses and an obscenity to the innocent people wrongly convicted. Its just easier to blame people, have public lynchings and dispose of the bodies, than actually look at the issues of organized crime, drug abuse, violence in our culture and what is quickly becoming a nation which criminalizes its poor. Growing studies show that there is no justice in the justice system. Cameron Todd Willingham was executed in Texas this year, with what amounts now to a mountain of evidence that he was innocent of any crime. Confronted with either looking soft on crime or doing the right thing, Governor Perry chose instead to have an innocent man executed. Capital punishment is the new coliseum. There isn't a single sane argument that supports capital punishment.

      Prison's should be divided into those who can be rehabilitated and those that can't or shouldn't be. Both sides of the prison can do useful work, earn a wage that provides for their families, restitution to victims and pay their own cost of living. For those in the side supporting rehabilitation, giving them job skills and real life skills, that will serve them when they leave will dramatically reduce recidivism. Separating career criminals from young people who made a mistake, is a vital step in ending the criminal cycle. Keeping the most dangerous and violent offenders separate, and ensuring that they aren't in a position to do harm, will immediately enhance the security for both guards and inmates.

    18. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Or as the prison operators see it, repeat customers.

    19. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by TheLink · · Score: 2

      They aren't your gang, and they know it.

      That's exactly what I'm talking about. As long as you do not fix that, the problem will remain. You put them in US style prisons and they'll certainly continue believing they are not your gang, and for good reason - by putting them in US style prisons you are reinforcing the belief that they are not your gang.

      And as long as people "outside" continue believing "the prisoners are not the same gang", the problem of reintegration will remain and hence there will be higher recidivism.

      As for the rest of what you said, I did address them, you and I both claim the problem is societal.

      If making prisoners believe they are members of the "Main gang" is too hard (since the main gang is not really very cohesive), might it not be possible to make them believe they are members of a different sort of gang which does not reoffend etc?

      --
    20. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by foobsr · · Score: 2

      addressing the real underlying issues

      Solving problems does not create revenue streams. Only if you install what I call an onion system (introducing ever new layers to fix problems) will you generate 'wealth' and 'growth'.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    21. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 2

      You need to look at complete picture when fixing bugs and vulnerabilities. There wouldn't be need for any SCADA system to begin with if U.S. fixed its prison system. Currently it's only making money for those who own prisons. It's mind blowing that something like prisons would be commercially run.

      I don't think you know what SCADA is. I can assure you that there are uses for SCADA outside of prisons and the vulnerabilities that exist within prisons are the same for those outside of prisons. The main difference what happens if they do affect a prison. To tie this back into tech talk though, SCADA is currently actively preventing a Linux file system creator from continuing his work. There's a conspiracy theory there, I'm sure.

    22. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by skegg · · Score: 2

      Just to clarify your opening sentence:

      desire to render retribution from prisoners instead of addressing the real underlying issues

      I don't think it's either/or ... I believe the desire is for both.
      Theoretically incarceration satisfies multiple desires:

      1. deterrent -- incarceration should deter the criminal (and others) from committing crimes
      2. remove dangerous people from the streets (protect the public)
      3. retribution -- satisfy the victims (or victims' families) desire for revenge (hence eliminate feuds)
      4. rehabilitation -- inmates to receive training, counselling, ...
      (there may be others)

      I'm not saying the prison system succeeds in satisfying all these objectives, just that there are multiple objectives.

    23. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by Ihmhi · · Score: 2

      Agreed. All the best tech practices in the world won't help your network function well if your users are drooling morons (also known as executives).

    24. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by russotto · · Score: 2

      Yes, but I can easily see a world where drugs are legal and gang members are doing drive-bys over bootleg Gucci purses and bootleg DVDs.

      I can postulate it, but it seems rather unlikely. Gucci purses and legal DVDs are regularly available, which sets a ceiling on the price for the bootlegs; at some point sale of the merchandise fails to cover the overhead of running a criminal enterprise.

    25. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by alanwall · · Score: 2

      ok I am a felon for life.I turned 21 in prison in California/1968 for 3 joints. During my time-6 weeks-in the routing system of the penal system I was assigned to the library to compile data for the past 6 years of inmate data. I made a type of excel using legal sized paper and finished the project before I was shipped to Chino to work as a drafter.The data showed the largest percent came for LA and SF and was about even between blacks and mexicans with native americans being the lowest.Education was 10th grade or less.Single parent was high.Most had priors in adult or youth court.I have forgotten the rest of the types of data..I got the job because I had college.While serving my time in Chino I met many 18-19 years olds that had been in the "system" since 9 years old.It was the only life they knew and was/is a inmate form of higher education.After 10 years in the big house you could have a masters in any the the top paying criminal jobs
      plus a law degree/other high paying "normal" jobs.All paid for by the tax payer.Many would be "free" on the outside and only make it 1-2 weeks before they were back behind bars.Ever hear the saying " 3 hots and a cot".Life is stable for them with a place to eat/sleep.
      Many in the "free" outside world today would be glad to have that "insurance" as they sleep under a bridge/wherever.And I would put little value to the "studies" done by "experts" in criminalogy/related social sciences.I sat in on many of these in state prison/county
      jails and inmates by about 66 percent know how to play the system to be viewed as " victims" of their upbringing/enviroment. The " I am not bad/society made me this way" lie.While true that both can and does play a roll in their path in life, they are still a smaller percent of those that live in that life hell.If ALL the people that have a less than hollywood life used that excuse,they
      would not be able to build prisons fast enough.From my
      view and "real life" data, I would say that 62 percent of the people in prison at this current time belong in their
      preferred habit for life. Think Shawshank Redemption-the movie-when the old man who was the librarian was set free.And for those against capitol punishment.Shame on you for being cruel and demanding a "civil" end to it.For many on death row they consider it cruel and unusual punishment to be left alone in a cell with little interface
      to other people/books/movies/fresh air. All the other things that a normal inmate gets.Here in Oregon, we had
      an inmate on death row demand that the state carry out
      in a timely manner his court ordered death as ordered by
      jurors in his trial.But before he got his legal rights granted to a fair and timely sentence as required BY LAW, the governor outlawed all capitol punishment.
      Now who is breaking the law ? The inmate was denied
      his rights as ordered by law.So now he will rot in his tiny
      cell for life with no hope of an end to his private hell.
      Guilty of murder beyond doubt,after the verdict is read
      roll in the pay per view video cameras and a guillotine
      and off with their head.Crimes such as committed by Bernie Madoff and his kind would also end the same
      way.Along with any one in the child porn/sex abuse
      cases.Think about it, a person kills another person and the impact on the victims family is short lived.Where in the white collar crimes like stock/investment/ponzi schemes/etc destroy generations from a better life/college and all the things that that money would have
      made possible.Madoff is not in a blue collar prison and
      Bubbas bitch.Sorry for bad spelling but it is new years
      and may ? be the last. /end rant

      --
      Amigian and proud of it!
    26. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by digsbo · · Score: 2

      wikipedia says that in NYC, police arrest 200k black males every year, out of a total population of 1200k. 1/6th of that particular group gets arrested EVERY YEAR.

      I'm shocked and relieved you weren't accused of being a racist just for posting those stats.

    27. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by budgenator · · Score: 2

      There are social issues involved. wikipedia says that in NYC, police arrest 200k black males every year, out of a total population of 1200k. 1/6th of that particular group gets arrested EVERY YEAR.

      You can't solve that problem by making jail more inviting, but you can't necessarily solve it by making jail worse. Thats why its a difficult dilemma - it isn't easy to solve.

      Make the jails that inviting, then it wouldn't be a problem, our prisons might even have to start having a waiting list.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    28. Re:U.S. prison system is flawed by sveinungkv · · Score: 2

      Does Norway also have the Mob and gangs that will murder the other prisoners in their sleep?

      Anders Behring Breivik, the Utøya shooter, is kept away from the other prisoners so they won't kill him. (A price tag has been put on his head) At the moment the prison is planning to build a high security department (article in norwegian) for him. So the problem is here but it's not as big as in the USA (yet).

      --
      Spelling/grammar nazis welcome (English is not my first language and I am trying to improve my spelling/grammar)
  2. This is a duplicate from November. by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:This is a duplicate from November. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Nice to know 2011 isn't over quite yet on Slashdot.

      2011? Slashdot isn't even out of the 20th Century yet!

      Take that Unicode!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  3. Slashdot and SCADA by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is Slashdot's submission system running on SCADA? I ask because we this "duplicate story" vulnerability keeps popping up.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  4. OMFG by Osgeld · · Score: 2

    Flip digital switches with electronics, the apocalypse is near!

    thanks for the FUD slashdot, could you not fucking dupe it next time?

    http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/11/08/0136230/vulnerabilities-discovered-in-prison-scada-systems

    Cripes half the wikipedia article is based on this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCADA#Security_issues

    And yet its still probably simpler to hold a guard at knife-point with a toothbrush handle filed down on the concrete floors

  5. magnetic boots by noh8rz2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    you can add redundancy with magnetic boots! flip the switch when the gates go haywire, and everybody is locked down. face/off!

  6. HAL should run the prisions by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 2

    That's right HAL should run the prisons in the USA and also look after the Prison Guards.

    --
    All cows eat grass!
  7. I was in prison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Let me tell you something here. I just got out of a state prison in the US 2 months ago. I served 10 years (and yes I have a /. account, my old pre-prison one is here to but I don't remember the password, I am not going to suffer the flaming rantings of trolls to my account so I am posting this AC).

    I did the crime. Did I deserve punishment for what I did? Definitely, I hurt a lot of people through my actions, not just my victim. However, while I cannot speak for the system in other countries, the system here is very flawed. It gives lip service to rehabilitation, but does very little to actually produce it. In my experience, most of the teachers and counselors in prison are there for two reasons. One, they could not hold a real teaching or counseling job because they were incompetent, lazy, or both. Two, the prison system gives them a place where they can sit, collect great benefits and have inmates do most of the work. I tutored in a Software class for 7 years while I was inside and the the teacher could not even be bothered to learn windows XP (her mind was stuck on DOS and didn't know that well). She was well meaning, but also ignorant and clueless. There are exceptions to this, but it is largely the rule.

    The system is hugely exploitative. In the Virginia system you have Virginia Correctional Enterprises. In the Feds you have FPI, and other states have similar programs. They pay more than any other job in prison (I made .45c /hr as a tutor and that was the highest non industry pay available). They still only pay at most $2.00/hr or so. Now, I know the state is housing, feeding, and guarding you but if you work in industry, you will make uniforms, or furniture, or other things that a PRIVATE COMPANY is making millions on, and you don't have enough to send home or pay child support. Oh, yeah in VA they can garnish a $50/month paycheck for child support while you are incarcerated.

    The system is corrupt. I am not just talking about low level corruption of correctional officers accepting bribes or smuggling contraband, which havens daily. But on and up to the top. From administrative staff skimming commissary funds to hold officer parties, to buying equipment for a band room on state funds, never opening the band room then selling the equipment. I saw the latter one happen myself. Hell in VA the state code gives the director of DOC the permission to take bribes and kickbacks!

    5. To accept, hold and enjoy gifts, donations and bequests on behalf of the Department from the United States government and agencies and instrumentalities thereof, and any other source, subject to the approval of the Governor. To these ends, the Director shall have the power to comply with such conditions and execute such agreements as may be necessary, convenient or desirable, consistent with applicable standards and goals of the Board;

    I have to give a view (somewhat) from the other side as well. I have seen posts recommending separating the 'bad' criminals from the ones who can be rehabilitated. How do you propose to do that? Based on the crime? Their behavior while imprisoned? I spent ten years inside and there are people who are so good at gaming and manipulating ANY system it would make your jaw drop. I personally am not good at manipulating people and don't want to be, but in order to survive there were many times I had to bend and break the rules. For me, it was making my own soldering gun and tools and collecting contraband parts to repair other inmates electronics. (Most people don't want to fuck with the guy who can fix their TV for them cheaply when it breaks). For others it might be stealing supplies or running a gambling pool. Finding the right way to classify and group prisoners is an exceedingly difficult prospect, and to be quite frank, most of the staff and administration at these facilities (at least in my exp

    1. Re:I was in prison by kermidge · · Score: 3

      Flame? For what - telling the truth?

      Nah, you nailed it, man.

  8. some people use the prison system for healthcare by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    For others it's better then living on the street.

  9. Re:head asplode by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    "You behave and have no more riots, or it's back to the saunas for you!"