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US Survey Shows Piracy Common and Accepted

bs0d3 writes "A new U.S. survey sponsored by the American Assembly has revealed that piracy is both common and accepted. The surveys findings show that 46% of adults and 75% of young people have bought, copied, or downloaded some copyright infringing material. 70% of those surveyed said it's reasonable to share music files (PDF) with friends and family. Support for internet blocking schemes was at 16%."

26 of 528 comments (clear)

  1. Sauce for the goose by symbolset · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If it's OK for the media lobbies to steal our public domain works from us in perpetuity, then by all means let's even the score.

    Once more into the breach for Baron Thomas Babington Macaulay, 1841 & 1842:

    I will only say this, that if the measure before us should pass, and should produce one-tenth part of the evil which it is calculated to produce, and which I fully expect it to produce, there will soon be a remedy, though of a very objectionable kind. Just as the absurd acts which prohibited the sale of game were virtually repealed by the poacher, just as many absurd revenue acts have been virtually repealed by the smuggler, so will this law be virtually repealed by piratical booksellers. At present the holder of copyright has the public feeling on his side. Those who invade copyright are regarded as knaves who take the bread out of the mouths of deserving men. Everybody is well pleased to see them restrained by the law, and compelled to refund their ill-gotten gains. No tradesman of good repute will have anything to do with such disgraceful transactions. Pass this law: and that feeling is at an end. Men very different from the present race of piratical booksellers will soon infringe this intolerable monopoly. Great masses of capital will be constantly employed in the violation of the law. Every art will be employed to evade legal pursuit; and the whole nation will be in the plot.

    You'll find a commentary on the first speech with references on Kuro5hin.

    And in a final bit of irony you can buy these 160 year old public-domain speeches printed in a paperback book for $21.24 from Amazon.com. So there is even no need for long onerous copyright if there's profit to be made in public domain works.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Sauce for the goose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it's OK for the media lobbies to steal our public domain works from us in perpetuity, then by all means let's even the score.

      Hell, it's okay for them to steal current works from artists and then sell the music thousands of times over for cash. Big Media did that in Canada and got a slap on the wrist for their commercial bootlegging. It's not who's in the right morally, or even legally, it's who has more money to buy lawyers and politicians.

    2. Re:Sauce for the goose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A few years back there was an absolutely amazing music torrent called oink.me which offered unprecedented selection and quality, all assembled by dedicated contributors. Naturally, it was shut down. I, and everyone I knew, would have gladly switched to a subscription model, and it could have been a gold mine for the recording industry, because it offered quality, selection, and organization unmet anywhere else. But of course like many dying industries, they decided they were more interested in control than profit, and arrogant enough to think they could maintain that control.

      Forgive me if I don't shed any tears watching them crash and burn. I feel bad for the artists and other content creators, but I suspect they'll survive the transition better than the parasites.

    3. Re:Sauce for the goose by symbolset · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The author of those speeches, Thomas Macaulay, was also an author of such works as "The History of England". He stood to lose a lot if copyright were extended so much that the people refused to cooperate with such unfair terms.

      The fault for the demise of copyright as a cultural imperative lies not with the pirates, but with Sonny Bono and Disney.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    4. Re:Sauce for the goose by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well when they can get played on the radio or heard by the masses without selling everything they will ever create to the leeches they can make a decent living. For all those musicians out there that want to make some extra scratch at your next gig? let old hairyfeet show you how to market and build a damned loyal fanbase, ready?

      Now I'm gonna assume you have the usual swag, T-shirts, your album/albums, hats, the usual stuff correct? how would you like to triple or even quadruple your sales? How? think RAFFLE buddy! You go to the local pawnshop of whatever place you are playing in, buy some $100 pawnshop special guitar or bass. If you want to stand out you can do like I did and when we found a bass I'd get some stickers or temp tats and some glitter fingernail polish and decorate. if there was a knob missing? A Dremel and some dice become cool knobs. Then at the gig you tell the audience everyone that buys some swag gets their name put in the drawing at the end of the show, first prize is this one of a kind instrument customized and signed by the band! Then at the end of the thing you pick some pretty young thing out of the audience to draw the names, third is a shirt, second an album, and finally first prize the autographed guitar or bass they got to see you play for a couple of songs that night.

      My last band we had fans follow us across states because they had won or one of their friends won an instrument. It makes them feel closer to the band and to help foster that feeling anybody that won we allowed to sit in the wives and GFs section and hang out with the band. It made for some extremely loyal fans and built a hell of a buzz. As an added bonus if you keep one or two old junkers around if you find a sweetheart in the pawnshop you can substitute the clunker and keep the sweetie. I have a great 82 Washburn that I decorated with 40s Pinup girls that played so well I let the audience have a late 80s Kramer bass I didn't care for and kept the Washburn. to this day I've had guys try to buy that bass off me wherever i play. It may not be nearly as fancy as my Fender 4 and 5 P Basses but its got style.

      So I give this idea freely under GPL to my fellow musicians, who knows, maybe one day you'll open for us or we'll open for you. I'll be easy to spot because i always have that Washburn with dice knobs and girlie stickers and my Squire Korean 5 string, those two I NEVER leave home without, the Fender P basses are optional. So if you see a kinda fuzzy bass player playing a Wahsburn with girlie stickers come say hi, and let me know how it went for you! I can tell you that little trick we were making triple what we were getting before even after taking out the cost of the guitar or bass. Its easy and fun, try it at your next gig!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    5. Re:Sauce for the goose by Pieroxy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you could lobby someone to pass a law that would guarantee you a fat paycheck until the rest of your life you'd do it in a heartbeat. And even if you didn't, most people would.

      You can blame the players, it's only fair. But don't forget to blame the system, which is really the party responsible for this entire mess.

      Until companies can no longer buy stupid laws and until legislators get a clue of what technology is, this ain't gonna get any better I'm afraid.

  2. double-edged sword by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's too bad they're too busy downloading and sharing music to call their congressmen, threaten not to vote for them if they vote for SOPA/PIPA, and actually follow through on that threat on election day.

  3. Of course people have no problem with sharing... by scottbomb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...music, DVDs, a cup of milk, a tool, a lawnmower, a car. People have been sharing media ever since the first record was pressed. Farmers have been sharing equipment since... the beginning of time. But you don't hear John Deere crying about it. All laws do is make a good deal of the population guilty of federal crimes. Ask Uncle Sam how well that fight against pornography worked. Or the war on drugs.

  4. Media companies lost the war by Hadlock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Copyright infringement went mainstream in 1998-2002, and now a decade later those kids on the internet in high school spent four years in college learning about file sharing culure and now are having their own kids.
     
    Whatever social value(s) the media industry was trying to impress upon us over the last 10 years have failed, and it's too late to re-educate the next generation of parents. It's only going to get worse from here, and they've spent a decade building animosity in their customers. They'll pass that animosity along to their children in terms of pirated Disney films, Dora the Explorer and whatever the next incarnation of Teletubbies are. Instead of selecting a VHS from the family video library, they'll be directed to the pirate bay or similar to find whatever obscure children's video isn't already on netflix on-demand.
     
    The generational shift has already happened, and public favor is against the media industry. Something's gotta budge, and it isn't public opinion.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
    1. Re:Media companies lost the war by Dwedit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One major exception: People don't mind paying their Netflix subscription fee to get better service than piracy. But selection is still a big problem.

    2. Re:Media companies lost the war by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Copyright infringement went mainstream in 1998-2002

      Eh? I guess you're too young to remember casette tapes and taping songs from the radio, or using dual tape machines to copy a buddy's tapes. It was pretty mainstream in the 1960's and 70's too. Not everything has happened in recent history, young man.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  5. How many are hostile to copyrights? by blind+biker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder what percentage of people are directly hostile to the notion of copyrights? I know I am

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:How many are hostile to copyrights? by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Copyrights themselves aren't the problem, copyrights that extend for decades without the creator having to extend them and without regard to the creator's interests that are the problem. The reality is that there's a bunch of content that's been abandoned by the owners that would have been public domain after 28 years previously, but now thanks to the super long automatic copyright terms isn't available to anybody.

      That's not a feature of copyright, that's a feature of what happens when politicians give corporations what they want without concern for the consequences.

    2. Re:How many are hostile to copyrights? by siddesu · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, this kind of abuse is exactly a feature of copyright. The economic reasoning is simple enough that it is covered in microeconomics introduction. The problem is similar with all regulations that create monopolistic profits.

      This is money you get in excess of what you'd be making in a fully efficient, competitive market. Since this is money in excess of the cost of all factors of production (and, btw, that includes the return on your investment in R&D), you don't get extra profit by spending it on your main business. Instead, you're better off if you spend that extra lobbying for activity that extends the regulations that give you the extra profit.

      The problem is made worse because this kind of behavior (called rent-seeking activity, if memory serves) is not self-correcting. Since distribution of cost and benefit is extremely uneven (small cost to many people vs. large benefits to very few large publishers in the case of copyright), there is very little in terms of political incentive for change.

  6. Re:Of course people have no problem with sharing.. by Totenglocke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ask Uncle Sam how well that fight against pornography worked. Or the war on drugs.

    Or the war on alcohol - which is the greatest example of why the government does far more harm than good when it tries to tell people what they should want. Not only do the majority ignore the laws and do it anyways, but they also create a large number of violent criminals to supply said product to the masses.

    --
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
  7. Re:Of course people have no problem with sharing.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lending and copying aren't the same thing. If I lend I do not make a copy of said thing. Digital files are digital copies of a creative work, and because the file is duplicated, ie, a copy, it is then violating _copy_rights.

    John Deere won't cry because you can't just _copy_ a tractor. It takes real work and real knowledge, time and skill to take one apart, figure all the pieces, all the compression, setup, etc., and build an exact copy.

    I don't support the excessive fines and draconian attitude, and copyright holders should be limited in to how much legal intimidation they're allowed to.

  8. It's quite simple by mbone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Copyright is a bargain between the people and the creators and owners of content, in which the people grant a temporary and limited monopoly in return for the ultimate ownership of the content.

    The people of the United States (and, for that matter, the rest of the world) have shifted the terms of that bargain some. It will take a while for their representatives to catch up, but they will.

  9. Unfortunately it's the 1% who calls the shot by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The folks on Capital Hill don't listen to the common people.

    Their only master is the 1% who can pay them.

    From patent trolls to perpetual copyrights to SOPA to ..... those a_holes in Capital Hills are killing American ingenuity as we know it.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Unfortunately it's the 1% who calls the shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And they just made it a law that they can come in the night and take you away for threatening to ever remove them from office

    2. Re:Unfortunately it's the 1% who calls the shot by Serpents · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is they're killing not only American ingenuity. By proposing agreements like ACTA they are trying to enforce similar solutions across the world. American ideas, be they good or bad, have a tendency to spread.

    3. Re:Unfortunately it's the 1% who calls the shot by flyneye · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All the way up to the parent, you guys get it.
      I'll take it to it's natural conclusion
                  Music is sound, it's communication. Marketing it as a tangible doesn't really work or someone gets screwed badly. In our case it it the musician that gets the worst of it. An industry exists that gets to decide WHO gets to make the best living from music. Think about it. Hand picked musicians get money poured into promotion for as long as they cooperate and stay a fad.
      Now not only do the non industry musicians suffer from a non level playing field but the industry musicians get their songs taken, their ability to perform their songs for money taken, their ability to play with each other under their chosen name can even be forfeit.
              It's just time to let the music industry die so musicians 'round the world can bring about competition amongst themselves on a level playing field. Music is free, forget selling it except for commercial use, the bother of trying to licence it for general use is like catching 5 lb. of mercury in a collander. Performance however is paid! Think of the fanbase that comes from freely distributed music! Taking the album purchase out of the equation greatly improves the chance your fan will have your song on his ipod. That leaves him money to come see your act, which is what you REALLY want as a musician anyway. It's the live shows that is the drug, not sales statistics.
              Take the industry out of the equation and the field becomes level for any musician. You can then get out of your career what you put into it rather than the slot machine business process of dealing with the corrupt industry. The internet is truly a great playing field leveler. Now the industry can die and all those couch surfing musicians can finally get some raisin pie.
                Bleating about lost jobs is kind of moot since ,A: musicians jobs far surpass industry numbers, B: filling jobs that culminate in an undesireable evil only taints the innocent who perform them. Let them stand in line for a job just like the rest of us who have to do actual work, actually do.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    4. Re:Unfortunately it's the 1% who calls the shot by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I grew up with musicians

      Which is funny. You must have known some pretty shitty musicians. I know several who are not big label, but they're making a medium income living doing local concerts and getting a couple albums out with smaller labels and even on iTunes. Some have had to switch bands a few times, due to break-ups or people moving away.

      Thanks to MafiAA Accounting - something that they deal with even on the lower level labels - musicians generally MAKE MORE MONEY these days by touring and doing concerts than they ever do off of their albums. Ask Great Big Sea about how they make money for instance: "“We’ve always been focused more on the live show than anything else,” he said. “Certainly, with the record industry the way it is, the live show has become so important to a band’s career. It used to be part of it, now it’s practically all of it. It’s the only way you can make money, pay the bills. ".

      Live performances ARE how musicians make the money these days, and you are full of shit saying otherwise.

  10. Re:Great. Now we just need to get the laws changed by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IP abolition isn't necessarily any better than what we have now, what we need is real meaningful reform to the system. Throwing it out completely is both more work and less likely to happen. Take the terms back to an automatic 28 years with extensions as long as the author cares to file them. And cap that at 56 years for corporations and that would solve a lot of the trouble with copyright right there.

  11. Re:Of course people have no problem with sharing.. by tantaliz3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately, that's the whole point... it's all about justifying the buildup of the police state. From drugs all the way through reactions to terrorism.

  12. Re:Of course people have no problem with sharing.. by Bogtha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lending and copying aren't the same thing.

    You are right. The infinite, perfect reproduction of digital tools and culture is far, far better than mere lending. It's damn near magical! It is truly a quantum leap in civilisation, which makes it all the more repugnant that such a wonderful ability is locked away so that the proles can't do it. Anybody who wants that kind of restriction is essentially advocating for a modern day dark ages.

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  13. Re:If one thing, I would say the number is low by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Those of the older generation are likely somewhat short. I wonder how many of those that said "No" traded tapes or sneakernetted when they were younger and such.

    I've noticed this myself. My father was a professional musician for a lot of years, and by virtue of the fact that he made his living playing music he obviously feels very strongly about music piracy. Many a night have I listened to him and his friends from the industry rail against the pirates "stealing from artists."

    But, even back in the days before the internet, I remember watching movies he had taped off of television, in some cases over a decade earlier. He had countless cassette tapes he had recorded off the radio or copied from LPs and later CDs, concerts he had recorded...he even had stuff he had copied onto reel-to-reel; it was so old it predated the cassette. Pointing this out to him when he gets on his rants about piracy yields little, as he seems to think it's different somehow. The fact that, in his youth, he was the dirty pirate just doesn't compute.

    It's funny to me how, to people like my father, the justification for piracy has more to do with how difficult it is to do, or the quality of the copy, and not the act of pirating in itself, like it's okay as long as the copy is shitty and making it is time consuming. It wasn't until the internet came around and people started downloading that he really started having a problem with it, which is a little ridiculous to me, and a little hypocritical as well, but seems to be a mindset shared by many of his peers.