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Feds Now Plans To Close 1,200 Data Centers

1sockchuck writes "The U.S. government now expects to shutter at least 1,200 data centers by the end of 2015 in its data center consolidation project. That's about 40 percent of the IT facilities identified in the latest update from federal CIO Steven VanRoekel. The number of government data centers has grown steadily — jumping from 1,100 to 2,094 and now to 3,133 — as the Obama administration has identified more facilities than expected, and expanded the initiative to target telecom closets. The CIO's office says it is on track to close 525 facilities by the end of this year, and has published a list of data centers targeted for closure."

36 of 148 comments (clear)

  1. Figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Under a Republican administration government grows exponentially and it takes a Democratic president to get things back under control.

    1. Re:Figures by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Welcome to topsy-turvy land. We've actually been here for awhile, with "fiscal conservative" presidents and legislatures growing the national debt and supposedly "tax and spend liberal" presidents actually shrinking debt.

      I support consolidating telecom facilities. Having facilities physically compromised is a bigger danger when there are more facilities, and having more facilities and presumably more equipment means more places one's information ends up, possibly leading to a greater chance that one's data won't remain secure to electronic penetration either.

      Many years ago, Tennessee forced all of its state agencies on to one computer system for the bulk of State business. The agencies were very upset by this, but in the end it did save money and help keep records better because now agency X and agency Y were handling the same record, instead of having separate, different records that were never checked against each other. I'm sure there were problems, especially turf wars where agencies would fight over who "owned" the data and who could change things, but I'd bet it still worked better than having thirty individual agencies all with their own equipment that doesn't synchronize...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:Figures by mr1911 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, what is the national debt again? What was it last year, and the year before?

      The government has grown wildly under all parties. Yeah, I know it is hard to troll when keeping reality in focus.

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      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    3. Re:Figures by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure there is. Small government Republicans just get the next administration to pay for things. Much like what's been going on for the past few years. If we ever get a Republican that is actually for small government and fiscal responsibility without being a total nut job they'll have my vote. Till then, I feel the Democrats have been doing the least damage.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    4. Re:Figures by bussdriver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Obama put the wars into the budget for the 1st time; that made it appear spending went up more than it actually did!
      The revenue went down because of the depression that started under Bush and continues today; that means less money coming in while spending continues and in most cases can not and should not instantly reflect revenue. Then you have tax cut extensions which also lowered revenue.
      Plus do not forget inflation undermining the dollar's value; a number which is no longer reported because it got so bad (again under Bush, but Obama would have probably done it too.) While this makes the debt amount seem lower in value it actually does more harm than good.
      The economy stimulus was way too weak and way too foolish (republican tax cuts) and that cost us a huge amount only to soften the downward spiral and couldn't dig us out-- you have to take a big step backwards so then you can build up enough momentum to escape...

    5. Re:Figures by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Welcome to topsy-turvy land. We've actually been here for awhile, with "fiscal conservative" presidents and legislatures growing the national debt and supposedly "tax and spend liberal" presidents actually shrinking debt.

      I support consolidating telecom facilities. Having facilities physically compromised is a bigger danger when there are more facilities, and having more facilities and presumably more equipment means more places one's information ends up, possibly leading to a greater chance that one's data won't remain secure to electronic penetration either.

      Many years ago, Tennessee forced all of its state agencies on to one computer system for the bulk of State business. The agencies were very upset by this, but in the end it did save money and help keep records better because now agency X and agency Y were handling the same record, instead of having separate, different records that were never checked against each other. I'm sure there were problems, especially turf wars where agencies would fight over who "owned" the data and who could change things, but I'd bet it still worked better than having thirty individual agencies all with their own equipment that doesn't synchronize...

      I've been witnessing the consolidation, or at least attempt at, in California. Sometimes they run out of money for the consolidation effort and it is shelved for short term budget reasons against the wisdom of getting it done now to save much more down the road. Turf wars, well, the try to conceal their turf, 'if we don't look after it it'll be a mess' which needs to be beaten back for the greater good. A little pain now for gain later. Government can't keep growing.

      I wouldn't utter a blanket curse at 'Conservatives' growing government - I've lived long enough to see each side of the aisle has its pet projects and is fully capable of spending like "drunken other-side-of-the-aislers" Reagan and GWBush both grew the size of the federal government by significant amounts, without finding a source for the funding, while Clinton (social liberal/fiscal conservative) actully slashed over 100,000 (I think it may have been as high as 300,000 from federal payroll - through consolidation and weeding out things which had lived beyond their mandate.)

      Good to see some of this attention coming back. This is how you cut spending, not by some trumpeted bill in the House or turning the budget screws, but by ferreting out the redundancy or unneeded and removing it.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    6. Re:Figures by wygit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So if there something wrong under a Democrat administration, it's the President's fault, but if there's something under a Republican administration, it's Congress's fault.

      OK, I get it.

    7. Re:Figures by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 2

      I used to say the same thing, but I plan on looking at it more closely in the coming months. I want to see how much of Obama's spending is investment and how much is "waste". The US's infrastructure is falling apart. Reducing to a household analogy, there is a difference between house debt and bar debt.

      However, having to switch to walking/bicycling to your job because you refused to get your car repaired to save money hampers income prospects no matter which debt you are paying off.

      --
      by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
    8. Re:Figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This.

      It appears to me that Republicans engage in hypocrisy more than Democrats. I remember a common refrain "Why do you hate Bush so much?" whenever there was legitimate criticism of his policies. Those same people are now calling Obama a Nazi, a Communist (I am sure Hitler and Stalin would have a chuckle on that one), non-American, etc. etc.

      Why do you hate Obama so much?

    9. Re:Figures by glodime · · Score: 3, Informative

      inflation undermining the dollar's value

      You should note that inflation has been historically low over the past 4 years.
      Also, the USD has gained value relative to other widely circulated currencies since the Global economy turned downward in 2007.

    10. Re:Figures by glodime · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm no Obama supporter.
      He has expanded on the bad that Bush got started.
      He's OK with ignoring due process for Citizens of the USA (which I think should be extended to all people that the USA's government agencies accuse of a crime).
      He lent money to insolvent corporations without a penalty rate or equity participation but would not consider lending or granting funds to insolvent or solvent but illiquid individuals during a credit freeze.
      His staff was informing corporate board members of the about to be announced free money that was going to be handed to them.
      He gave up until recently on filling the vacant Fed Board position after a little push back initially (when the Fed could have saved many people from extended unemployment)
      He hasn't pushed for effective regulations on financial leverage and size of financial intermediaries.
      He hasn't pushed for easier formation of Mutual financial intermediaries.
      He ignored the unemployment epidemic after the initial stimulus bill.
      He never publicly entertained a single payer health care system.

      But he still seems better suited to run the country than his predecessor or hopeful successors now in Iowa.

    11. Re:Figures by Jawnn · · Score: 2

      Umm, I don't know if you noticed or not, but Obama hasn't shrunk the debt at all--he's grown it at a pace worse than Bush.

      Mind you, Bush was undeniably horrible. But the takeaway here is this: there is NO SUCH THING as a "small government Republican" anymore.

      Actually paying for the horrendous bills run up by the Bush administration can not correctly be labeled as growing the debt. Nice try. The numbers, all of them, are a matter of public record, there for anyone to to look at and analyze. Those to blame for the huge spikes in the deficit, for example, fairly leap off the page. Please stop trying to parrot bullshit Republican talking points here.

    12. Re:Figures by obsess5 · · Score: 2

      And the Republicans had majorities for the first 6 years ...

  2. What qualifies as a "Data Center"? by sirwired · · Score: 2

    3,133 Data Centers? Does some computer-savvy worker taking some initiative to back up the PC's in the Outer Podunk Forestry Station by sticking a cheap NAS box in the closet underneath the shelves of tree-climbing gear count as a "Data Center"?

    1. Re:What qualifies as a "Data Center"? by Entrope · · Score: 5, Informative

      The memos that talk about the data centers make the criteria clear. A "data center is defined as: *Any room that is greater than 500 square feet and devoted to data processing; and, * Meets one of the tier (I, II, III & IV) classifications defined by the Uptime Institute."

      If you are surprised that the US Federal government has more than 3,000 of those -- welcome to the (not-so-)new bureaucracy, trying hard to pretend it is a technocracy.

    2. Re:What qualifies as a "Data Center"? by Pharmboy · · Score: 2

      Maybe the problem is that the federal government has too many employees to start with. They don't generate wealth or create jobs, so maybe we could start with getting rid of a bunch of those jobs. Starting with the TSA. Next we move to the Drug Czar's office, then the Department of Education.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    3. Re:What qualifies as a "Data Center"? by afidel · · Score: 2

      Correct though if it was not for virtualization we would be at three as we were at about 110% of design capacity a few years ago prior to starting a serious VMWare deployment (we had grown from 60 to 170 servers at the primary datacenter, today we're down to 87 and might be at 60 or fewer by the end of the year if we have enough time to virtualize everything we want to in between all our other projects).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    4. Re:What qualifies as a "Data Center"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sure, the government doesn't generate any wealth whatsoever, they just:

      1) Allow wealth generation to happen at all (by maintaining roads, public transit, police forces, fire departments, and other services necessary to the functioning of a modern society)
      2) Encourage wealth generation indirectly (by providing free or subsidized education that creates a more knowledgeable population, by providing libraries, museums, and other cultural institutes that extend that availability of education (artistic, cultural, and technical) to interested adults, etc.)
      3) Encourage wealth generation directly (by investing in research and public works projects that corporations are unwilling or unable to fund, but which corporations often directly benefit from)
      4) Provide social services which aim to keep people as contributing members of society, rather than let them slide into (nigh-irrecoverable) homelessness. (And, while it is easy and sometimes correct to say that individuals in such a position are there because of their own poor decisions, the reality is that they will, without alternative opportunities, likely turn to a life of crime that costs us -- either our safety if we let them continue to perpetrate crime, or a larger sum of money if we imprison them securely.)

  3. I work on this effort and it's horribly misguided by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I applaud the efforts to consolidate and streamline government to prevent waste. However, the government, at least in Homeland Security, has no idea what they are doing when it comes to managing the data centers. They want to consolidate ALL Homeland Security assets into TWO data centers. Firstly, from a security perspective, two isn't really enough...need a bit more diversity than that (though certainly not the hundreds out there).

    Worse yet is that one is not even owned by the government, but rather a Fortune computer company...which means that when the contract is up, they can increase the rates exorbitantly so, and the government has nothing they can do about it. Why? Because otherwise they would need to migrate all of these systems, which takes several years, at least. Way to go.

    The contracts are already so screwed up...e.g. if we need to recable a government system, and we go and do the work, the company which owns the datacenter contract still gets paid as if they did the work. But we have to do it, because they always screw it up. Whoever wrote those contracts should be shot by us tax-payers.

    Further, both are in flood zones, one is in a frequent hurricane zone (lightning/wind already took out our power systems once), and both are relatively east coast...really poor choices, geographically.

    Oh right, and let's not forget that with all these systems migrating over, we are now seeing significant power and space concerns in the data centers. Shocked? Did the government ever determine the combined, used square footage of existing data centers and compare that with the data centers we are migrating to? I doubt it, or we wouldn't have such stupid issues. I'm sorry, but these data centers the government is migrating to are large, but by no means the largest I've ever seen. And they expect over 3000 data centers to roll up in them.

    It's like they never went to kindergarten and are trying to jam a massive round ball into a tiny square hole with a big plastic hammer.

  4. Colo? by aaronb1138 · · Score: 2

    Please lie to me and tell me this will be followed by government auction colos, with fat pipes already laid. Might be a good time to pick up rack space cheap. Or we might be just looking at lists of broom closets with two poweredge 1850s in them.

    Seriously though, federal auctions are the best place to get used, yet reasonably current hardware cheap. I got a laptop a year ago which still has warranty left that way (had to add a hdd).

  5. Re:FAA by NetRanger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Every plane registered is stored there, the logistics center is there, and their academy is located there too.

    Why did OKC reach this prominence? Of all the lower 48 states, it has the best flying weather for most of the year.

    --
    -- We live in a world where lemonade is artificial and soap has real lemon.
  6. Re:I work on this effort and it's horribly misguid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Guy's dead on. I see it, too. For extra fun, sometimes "closing" a data center means throwing away all the working equipment and buying completely new equipment to replace it in a different data center. I have no earthly idea how they think they're going to save any money. They just get a metric in their head and run with it. Fewer data centers is better, no matter what, right?

  7. Huh? by GoChickenFat · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Wholly smokes...

    ...and supposedly "tax and spend liberal" presidents actually shrinking debt.

    I don't know what the savings are with these DC closures...the article doesn't say. But tell me where in these numbers you see a liberal shrinking the debt http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm - probably hosted on a server in one of the soon to be shuttered DCs...

    1. Re:Huh? by hondo77 · · Score: 2

      On this chart, down at the bottom. Go Truman and Ike (who would be considered a lefty by today's Republican party)!

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    2. Re:Huh? by locketine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are aware that Bush was increasing the debt during an economic boom and Obama is increasing it during a recession, right? Tax revenue is the main difference between those two situations.

      Also, debt only became an "important" issue to congress once Obama took office even though Bush's policies are responsible for a majority of the debt growth during Obama's term in office. If one wants to see an accurate accounting of who raised the debt and who lowered it they need to take into account the economic conditions and policy decisions made by each president as some decisions have longer lasting effects and longer delays before they impact the economy. A simple but rough accounting would be to look at the budget office's 10 year forecast during a president's term in office as those at least try to deal with the long term implications of policy decisions.

      --
      Think globally but act within local variable scope.
  8. While you're at it... by bradorsomething · · Score: 2

    Why don't you close down those "datacenters" in the phone company closets, too.

  9. Useless data centers by lucm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are not needed anymore because:

    1) the big hardware vendors already made their money
    2) the contractors who installed and configured the hardware already made their money
    3) the corrupt purchasing officials have already made their money from the bribes they got from the hardware vendors and the contractors
    4) the software vendors will keep racking up software maintenance fees since all those physical servers will become VMs

    It's called "greed computing".

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  10. In a word by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why is a smaller government superior to a larger government?

    Freedom

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:In a word by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Freedom to starve, Freedom to enjoy the fresh open air, freedom to be bullied by corporations ....

      Small Government is bad it can't protect you

      Big Government is bad it over protects you ... ..as always the median is the ideal

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
  11. Re:I work on this effort and it's horribly misguid by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    I feel your pain.

    > if we need to recable a government system, and we go and do the work, the company which owns the datacenter contract still gets paid as if they did the work. But we have to do it, because they always screw it up.

    It's not just governments that trap themselves into this kind of contract.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  12. in soviet russia by decora · · Score: 2

    the data centers count you!!!

  13. and SABRE, and Tinker, and Douglas Aircraft, by decora · · Score: 2

    and a crapload of other aviation stuff that has been in oklahoma historically.

    anyways.

  14. Modern Monetary Theory by Nicolai+Haehnle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Welcome to topsy-turvy land. We've actually been here for awhile, with "fiscal conservative" presidents and legislatures growing the national debt and supposedly "tax and spend liberal" presidents actually shrinking debt.

    It's bizarre how perverted the discussion has become due to the focus on deficit and debt. There is a reasonable political debate to be had on the question of whether government should be small or large. Should the government be responsible for maintaining basic infrastructure? For education? And so on.

    But these questions should not be confused with discussions about the deficit and debt, at least on the federal level. The deficit is mostly endogenous. That is economist-speak for saying that the deficit is not directly controlled by political decision. Instead, it is largely the result of what happens in the private sector. If the private sector produces a lot of activity, this automatically results in higher tax payments and therefore a lower government deficit. If the private sector is running idle, tax revenue drops while at the same time federal outlays in social programs increase, hence the government deficit increases. Therefore, it is best to just let the deficit be whatever it needs to be. That is the approach of Functional Finance, which greatly influenced Modern Monetary Theory.

    Stop worrying about the deficit or the debt. They are meaningless, red herrings. Start worrying about real things instead, like crumbling infrastructure or high unemployment - both are things that can very easily be fixed simultaneously at the federal level, if the deficit terrorists are finally silenced.

    1. Re:Modern Monetary Theory by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      It's bizarre how perverted the discussion has become due to the focus on deficit and debt. ...
      Stop worrying about the deficit or the debt. They are meaningless, red herrings.

      Dear Sir,

      Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

      Sincerely

      J. Weidmann
      President
      Deutsche Bundesbank

      WHAT IS THE EUROPEAN DEBT CRISIS?

      In its most basic form, it's just this: Some countries in Europe have way too much debt, and now they risk not being able to pay it all back. Simple!

      There's more to it than that, of course, but when people talk about the "crisis," what they're worried about is that a big, scary, flashpoint event will happen -- like one or more of the eurozone countries defaulting on its debts -- causing investors to panic and triggering a massive banking shock.

      The possibility also looms that one or more countries will pull out of the eurozone -- the 17-nation bloc that use the euro currency, which has been around since 1999. Should any of the eurozone nations drop out of this group, it could lead to a rash of bank failures in Europe, and possibly in the United States as well. Under these circumstances, people and businesses who need money might not be able to get any. We'd be looking at depression for Europe and recession for the rest of the world. Some people argue that an orderly, controlled eurozone break-up would be a good thing for certain struggling debtor nations. Still, even this relatively benign scenario carries economic fallout for Europe and maybe beyond.

      HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

      The reason everyone is freaking out now is that while some eurozone countries are relatively sound from an economic standpoint, other countries are way over-leveraged, meaning they have too much debt relative to the size of their economies. And the troubles of a few countries could end up affecting everyone, yoked together under one currency for the last decade -- even though their economies functioned according to different habits and enjoyed very different degrees of financial health.

      Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain -- gathered under the unfortunate acronym PIIGS -- are some of the most highly leveraged eurozone countries, and most people think that if a disaster happens, it will start with one of them. Italy's debt is 121 percent the size of its economy. For Ireland, that figure is 109 percent. In Greece, it's 165 percent.

      The PIIGS took different paths to this scenario. Ireland, for example, underwent a massive real estate bubble, and its banks sustained giant losses. The Irish government wound up rescuing its banks, and now the country is burdened under a huge debt load.

      Spain, which now has a 22 percent unemployment rate, also experienced a huge housing bubble. The country didn't indulge in excessive borrowing -- rather, it ended up with high deficits because it couldn't collect enough tax revenue to cover its expenses.

      Greece, on the other hand, not only borrowed beyond its means, but exacerbated the problem with lots of overspending, little economic production to make up the difference, and some creative bookkeeping to prevent eurozone authorities from realizing the true extent of the situation.

      The deficits weren't piling up everywhere. Countries with strong economies like Germany and France were keeping their output high and their debt at a manageable level. But when 17 nations use the same currency, trouble spreads quickly.

      Now that the size of the PIIGS' debt has become clear, investors are getting more and more reluctant to buy bonds from European countries, since many of those countries are heavily in debt -- and the ones that aren't in debt look like they might have to assume responsibility for the ones that are. Investors don't want to put their money into bonds if they think they might not eventually get that money back. And

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    2. Re:Modern Monetary Theory by Loki_1929 · · Score: 2

      Stop worrying about the deficit or the debt. They are meaningless, red herrings.

      I'm former Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou and I approve this message.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    3. Re:Modern Monetary Theory by Nicolai+Haehnle · · Score: 2

      Actually, the US Federal government is also only a currency user, ever since 1913. The US Dept of the Treasury has no legal authority to create new US Dollars

      The so-called independence of the Fed is all smoke and mirrors. The Fed was created by Congress, it has to operate under the rules set by Congress, and it can be undone by Congress. More importantly, even today the Fed does not operate independently from the Treasury. The Fed and Treasury coordinate their transactions to enable the Fed to manage the bonds market. Seriously, read up on it.

      a pseudo-private/public institution whose owners are US banks but who is somewhat answerable to the US Congress and the President

      That is quite misleading. Outside of regulatory capture (which is unfortunately a very real thing), the banks have exactly zero influence over the politics of the Fed. They are formally owners, but even the profit of the Fed is largely paid out to the Treasury.

      This last point highlights just how absurd the institutional setup is, by the way. The profit of the Fed is in large part due to interest that the Treasury pays to the Fed for the bonds that the Fed owns. The profit is then paid back to the Treasury. Hooray for smoke and mirrors bureaucracy!

      should Congress remove that authority from the Federal Reserve (...) in the middle of the mess we're seeing, it would bring about an economic panic that would dwarf any we've heretofore witnessed.

      Oh, really. Never mind the fact that such an action wouldn't even be necessary, what form do you imagine this economic panic would take? I assume it'll be like the panic that happened after Treasuries were downgraded to AA+?

      Greece, Ireland, and others are all perfectly able to coin their own money at will. They need only abdicate treaties prohibiting it and fire up the printing presses. The reason they haven't done so is that it's economic suicide.

      Bad comparison, because Greece and Ireland are in a very different situation. Their problem, especially in the case of Greece, is that its currency should have devalued significantly relatively to currencies of the rest of the world, but that was prevented because Greece tied itself to the Euro. Countries that do not have pegged currencies don't suffer from the same problem, because their exchange rates never go that far off-kilter.

      That said, I would say that reintroducing their own currency is in fact the best thing Greece can do economically. Better to have a very painful but short cut followed by a swift recovery, than to suffer many years of economic depression. Argentina is a good example that this can work.

      We've seen in Germany, Zimbabwe, and many others what happens when you attempt to coin your way out of a massive fiscal debt.

      I was wondering when the inflation bogeyman would show up. Hyperinflation in Germany and Zimbabwe was never about printing too much money; that was just the spectacular side effect of other, very different problems. This is a good introductory paper. Tl;dr: in both cases, a collapse of productive capacity combined with foreign currency-denominated debts created an impossible situation. Printing money was a symptom rather than a cause.

      What happens when the US pays more in debt servicing than its entire annual revenue combined and we begin borrowing for 100% of spending plus x% of the debt servicing?

      Since that can only happen due to the interest that the government pays on the debt, the answer is very simple: decrease the interest rate. The interest rate is a political choice set by the Fed, after all.

      If the decreasing interest rate should cause people to buy and invest instead of saving, even better: This will cause tax r