US Threatens Spain For Not Implementing SOPA-Like Law

SharkLaser writes "In a leaked letter sent to Spain's outgoing President, the US ambassador warned that if Spain didn't pass SOPA-like file-sharing site blocking law, Spain would risk being put into United States trade blocklist. United States government interference in Spain's intellectual property laws have been suspected for a long time, and now the recent leaks of diplomatic cables confirm this. Apart from the cables leaked earlier, now another cable dated December 12th says U.S. expresses 'deep concern' over the failure to implement SOPA-style censorship law in the country. 'The government has unfortunately failed to finish the job for political reasons, to the detriment of the reputation and economy of Spain,' read the letter. Racing against the clock in the final days of the government, Solomont had one last push. 'I encourage the Government of Spain to implement the Sinde Law immediately to safeguard the reputation of Spain as an innovative country that does what it says it will, and as a country that breeds confidence,' he wrote."

Comments

correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Anonymous Coward]

All it needs is one domino to fall.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[L4t3r4lu5]

Spain is bankrupt. Putting them on an international trade blacklist is like refusing to serve homeless people in Harrod's.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[DCTech]

It would be fun to see U.S. threaten China about blacklisting them. Oh, wait, they can't because U.S. is so dependent on China that it would hurt U.S. more than it would hurt China.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Anonymous Coward]

Spain is only bankrupt if it can't provide all the necessities for its own people. If they can manage to self-sustain, all the blacklists in the world will have no effect on its economy.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Nadaka]

Not really, the US represents a huge buyer of inexpensive cheap plastic crap from china and would devastate their economy if we stopped trading with them. The US would suffer because we would have to buy locally produced expensive cheap plastic crap, at least until we have had time to ramp up the cheap plastic crap industry at home and solve the unemployment problem.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Asic Eng]

I really don't get this - is SOPA so important to US interests that it would risk a trade war with an EU country? I get that it's in the interests of some media companies, but they are puny in comparison with other US industries. Don't these industries have lobbies, too?

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[rickb928]

1. SOPA is so important to U.S. corporate interests that they are exerting enormous pressure on our Legislature.

2. Our Legislature, being so dependent on corporate insider trading, is willing to do their will.

3. Our Executive branch, being utterly bereft of ethical standards, is willing to threaten Spain with actual economic damages for no more reason than to support U.S. corporate interests, which uktimately serve to enrich the Legislature (and other insiders) to the disadvantage of the general population.

4. There are virtually NO U.S. corporations that would not benefit from the enactment of SOPA, in some way. Virtually none would suffer any damages from enactment of SOPA. Even Internet-based corporations would benefit from having clear rules to follow. Ambiguity is not always profitable.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Anonymous Coward]

Germany has twice as external debt than Spain, same the UK, France... even the US has much more external debt than Spain proportionally, in case you think the US is not bankrupt. Spain's problem is a very high rate of unemployement, their debt is relatively small. Amazed of how easy is to be absolutely misinformed nowadays.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Anonymous Coward]

And to prove point #4 EVERY entity listed on the SOPA & PIPA supporters list will receive daily copyright infringement takedown notices for all their non-US websites.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[poetmatt]

what makes you think this doesn't apply to any trade blacklist globally?

The market is no longer "us centric", so any trade blacklist just makes it worse for us. Who would do business by choice with a country that is blacklisting (and blackmailing) countries into being the same kind of failure they are becoming?

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Anthony Mouse]

4. There are virtually NO U.S. corporations that would not benefit from the enactment of SOPA, in some way. Virtually none would suffer any damages from enactment of SOPA. Even Internet-based corporations would benefit from having clear rules to follow. Ambiguity is not always profitable.

This is just ridiculous. First of all, what about the existing law is supposed to be so ambiguous? New laws almost always produce more ambiguity because there has to be a period of years before the courts have a chance to write decisions interpreting them where any number of the new provisions remain uncertain. This is especially true of SOPA because parts of it are so obviously subject to a constitutional challenge, which means companies won't know whether they have to follow them until it goes to court -- which is the worst kind of uncertainty; the kind that leads to expensive protracted litigation.

In addition to that, if SOPA will have no negative effects on them, why have they all come out against it? Why are they running full page ads in the New York Times?

I think you'll find that the US Trade Representative's positions are set not based on what US companies want, but rather based on what US companies that do the most lobbying want. The RIAA and MPAA have long been prolific in their employment of lobbyists; tech companies less so until very recently and even there they lack the sort of experience necessary to be as effective as would be expected from their size and economic importance. One can hope that they get it right before it's too late, but I prefer to hope that Americans come to their senses and make it a defense to murder that the victim was an entertainment/fossil fuel/defense/telecommunications industry lobbyist.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[thisnamestoolong]

My friend, you are sorely mistaken if you think that money is the only card on the table in the SOPA debate. If it was only about money, Google and Facebook would lobby the **AA's into oblivion, as their pockets are so much deeper that it wouldn't even be a contest. SOPA is not even about copyright; it's about control. By writing such an overly broad rule, the government assures that all sites on the web are in violation of the law at all times. While the vast majority of sites would be assumed to be acting in good faith to prevent infringement, anyone who steps out of line can immediately be wiped out with no due process. Wikileaks and the Occupy movement have showed the Congress critters that an unregulated Internet will eventually bring all of their greed and corruption into the light of day, and that people will only tolerate it for so long. They NEED something like SOPA to reign it back and, so that they can continue fucking the people without worry of being taken to task for it.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Bob9113]

4. There are virtually NO U.S. corporations that would not benefit from the enactment of SOPA, in some way. Virtually none would suffer any damages from enactment of SOPA. Even Internet-based corporations would benefit from having clear rules to follow. Ambiguity is not always profitable.

3.5% of the US GDP is media, in the broadest sense. The other 96.5% benefits from an unrestricted Internet. "Having clear rules to follow" means having to hire people and build systems to enact those rules.

SOPA will be as costly to US corporations as the DMCA was. it's a giant extra bit of friction that only helps a tiny corner of the economy. Either you know nothing about economics or you are a shill.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[dthx1138]

It would be fun to see U.S. threaten China about blacklisting them. Oh, wait, they can't because U.S. is so dependent on China that it would hurt U.S. more than it would hurt China.

Surprise, China is already on the Priority Watch List in the "Special 301" report: http://www.ustr.gov/webfm_send/2849

Other nations you may have heard of that are already on this list include: Canada, India, Israel, and Pakistan. Being named in this list, as the ambassador suggested might happen to Spain, does not mean that the U.S. is starting some kind of trade blockade or economic war with Spain.

Does the Sinde law sound bad? Yes. But the ultimate responsibility and/or blame lies with the Spanish government. Insinuating that the only reason the law was created and passed is that the U.S. threatened Spain with an act of war is silly hyperbole.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[arkane1234]

You know, big boys were having big boy conversation until you came in saying that.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[theskipper]

Exactly. Let's not forget how Allison Halataei and Lauren Pastarnak whored themselves out to the RIAA/MPAA straight out of Lamar Smith's office. No waiting period to dispel any appearance of impropriety. They know it doesn't matter, just follow the money because the corruption is so ingrained.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70149.html

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[ricklow]

What he was doing (rightly or wrongly) was paraphrasing the old saying "When you owe the bank a thousand dollars, you have a problem, but when you owe the bank a million dollars, the bank has a problem."

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[operagost]

Their economy is a WMD.

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[AngryDeuce]

Exactly, because the only options one would have is to sue the government or some multi-billion dollar corporation. Neither is economically feasible to anyone that is not a government or multi-billion dollar corporation themselves, so in effect, no one else has any rights at all regarding this.

The assholes in government and corporate America would love nothing better than for all of us to shut the fuck up, come out and vote for the guy they tell us to every couple years, and buy their price-inflated shit on credit. Hell, with all the game playing going on with voter-ID laws and other disenfranchisement methods, it probably won't be long before the "vote for the guy they tell us to" isn't even an issue any more. They'll just make sure that only the people that support that guy get the opportunity to vote in the first place. People openly say things like "only property owners should be allowed to vote since they're the only ones with a vested interest in the economy anyway" nowadays. How long will it be until we start seeing these ideas gain traction in actual government? As long as the economy stays in the shitter (and with companies sitting on record amounts of cash, hiding it overseas without penalty, it will be) people will believe almost anything they're told out of desperation.

It's time to start taking a page out of our Founding Fathers book and arming ourselves. The government won't hesitate in pulling out all the stops in making sure they remain in power.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[rev0lt]

Actually, China is one of the (non-american) biggest USA debt buyer, and their interest in american economy is quite simple to grasp - they need to keep the dollar strong,so they can make a ton of money by dollar-yuan exchanges, but keeping their international selling prices the same. As an added bonus, the commodities market also frequently trade in dollars, so it's a win-win situation.
In the day the dollar stops being a priority for the chinese, probably it won't worth the paper is printed on. A considerable devaluation of the currency would lead all those countries that also negotiate in dollars (officially or unofficially) to exchange them as fast as they can. Given the amount of forged currency in circulation, it would have a catastrophic effect - not only for the USA, but for every other 1st world country whose financial sector is backed by dollar investments.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Tsingi]

It would be fun to see U.S. threaten China about blacklisting them.

Chinese have WMDs, Spaniards don't have them.

They're still reeling from the inquisition. They didn't expect that. But they are ready for whatever comes next.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[517714]

Yes, I am proud to own a phone built in the USA ... by Western Electric ... in 1974.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[rev0lt]

Actually, you are wrong. Spain has a GDP foreign debt of 284% and Germany has a GDP foreign debt of 176%. The US have 101%, and they are in much better finantial shape than many strong countries in EU.
Spain also has a complex, almost non-regulated, mutualist banking system (Caixas), and very poor performance in the EU stress tests. The only reason Spain has no interest to the IMF/European Fund is because most of the foreign debt is held by Germany and the UK, and a rescue operation would imply much more money than what the European Fund had avaliable, and would cause a direct hit in both UK's and Germany's banking companies. I used as reference the following infographic: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[517714]

Yeah, Cuba doesn't get any aid from Venezuela.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[ShieldW0lf]

Not really, the US represents a huge buyer of inexpensive cheap plastic crap from china and would devastate their economy if we stopped trading with them. The US would suffer because we would have to buy locally produced expensive cheap plastic crap, at least until we have had time to ramp up the cheap plastic crap industry at home and solve the unemployment problem.

Cheap plastic crap such as laptops and tablet computers almost all produced in China in Taiwanese-owned plants

China gets squat in exchange for the goods they ship to the US. The reason they continue is to keep their productive infrastructure operational and their people industrious. They could dump manufactured goods into the sea and be no worse off.

As for being blacklisted by the Americans... the US got where they are on the basis of trade. The reason they got that way is because people who trade with them usually end up getting the short end of the stick. This being the case, any rational person would see that doing business with the US is a bad idea. This isn't a secret. It's not even a controversial statement. The problem is, Americans are extremely good at corrupting representatives into screwing over those they represent by continuing to do business with them.
 

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, China is one of the (non-american) biggest USA debt buyer,

That is like saying that a 4 ft tall person is the tallest person in a room full of midgets. The amount of US debt owned by China is only 8% of all US public debt. Their interest in the US economy is solely as a potential market to sell goods. And soon they won't even be worried about that as their middle class keeps growing. But right now the US is the larget market out there, with no real replacement.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[dbet]

This is what I'm hoping for. The rest of the world finally says "enough" and puts the U.S. on a trade blacklist. We face the possibility of 100 million deaths because we don't produce any food anymore. We go to war to secure stations in food-producing countries. Both the EU and China join forces to stop us. The U.S. military is completely destroyed. The U.S. signs treaties. We go back to a "normal" country again and start putting money into infrastructure and education instead of bombing the shit out of the backwoods tiny nation du jour.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[steelfood]

I've been reading more about SOPA recently, and the list of opponents is actually relatively small. Most of them are internet-based service companies, without tangible products. Google's the biggest of the bunch, followed by Amazon, Ebay, Yahoo, and AOL. Everyone else is tiny--miniscule even--compared to the list of SOPA supporters.

On the other hand, everybody from cosmetics to media support SOPA. Every industry that involves a tangible product has at least one company or lobbying group within it supporting SOPA.

Tech giants like Microsoft and Apple are staying quiet, though I suspect the BSA's stated reservations are close to their official position. Collectively, they're neutral at best.

But everyone else is in favor of SOPA. Everyone. Except the ones whom the government is supposed to represent.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[suutar]

I think SarbOx may be a better comparison (or perhaps just a more widely known comparison)... I remember lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth at the expense of adjusting to Sarbanes-Oxley requirements, but not so many for DCMA.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Gr8Apes]

Exactly. Let's not forget how Allison Halataei and Lauren Pastarnak whored themselves out to the RIAA/MPAA straight out of Lamar Smith's office.

Yeah...but for the amounts of $$ they're likely getting....who wouldn't??

You have this wrong... they "whored themselves out to the RIAA/MPAA while in Lamar Smith's office". The amounts of money granted were for work already performed.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[tragedy]

DCTech wrote:

China owns 8% of dollar. If they sold all their dollars, dollar would drop 8%.

Really? Is that the way it works? Sorry if I'm completely ignorant of the way this market works. Why would one large player completely selling out of the market only affect the price by the amount that player holds? I'm just asking because in just about any other market I've heard of, that kind of move would trigger a huge drop as other players struggle to be the first to abandon what they see as a sinking ship (even if their intention is just to sell high and then buy low later). Why would it be different in this market?

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Thing 1]

I wouldn't.

Your question reminds me of the old joke about the guy asking the lady in a bar, "Would you sleep with me for a billion dollars?" to which she says "Yes"; then he asks "For a hundred?" and she responds "What kind of lady do you think I am?"; his answer: "We've already determined that. Now we're negotiating the price."

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Super_Z]

Actually, you are wrong. Spain has a GDP foreign debt of 284% and Germany has a GDP foreign debt of 176%. The US have 101%, and they are in much better finantial shape than many strong countries in EU.

The "Foreign debt to GDP" numbers reflects the relative size of the countries financial systems and should not be seen as liabilities as this debt is collateralized. The better numbers to compare for "financial shape" are the "Govt debt to GDP" levels, respectively 67%, 83% and 100%. Additionally one should look at the current account for the countries in question. This shows a why Spain is in trouble even if its debt to GDP ratio is relatively small (67%).

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[shiftless]

It wouldn't be the US that starves as we have no issues with any food product that can be produced in the country

The problem isn't producing it. The problem is transporting it. And the other looming problem is, how do people buy food if their money is worthless?

Don't be so smug as to think a worldwide interruption in trade (due to, I don't know... World War III perhaps?) wouldn't hurt us. It could hurt us pretty bad.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[X86Daddy]

With that verb choice, you insult hard-working courtesans all over the world. These disgusting creatures are selling other people's rights rather than their own labor.

Re:correct response: "OK, put me on the list."

[Grishnakh]

The US still exports steel, airplanes, arms, automobiles, and agricultural products.

I call bullshit on this. No one outside the US buys US-made automobiles in significant quantities. How many Chevies and Fords do you see driving around Europe or Japan? Moreover, while American automakers do own several European automakers (like Opal), those cars are all made in Europe, not in America.

There are also "soft products" like software, and financial services.

Shuffling fake money around is what caused the crash of 2008. The way it's practiced here in the US, it's not a real product or service with any value.

Freedom

[alphatel]

Blackmail: you're doing it right.

Re:Freedom

[SniperJoe]

Actually, this is more along the lines of extortion. "Nice country you've got here. It would be a shame if someone blacklisted it from trading with other countries..."

Re:Freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

In fact, SOPA will make work for the police a lot harder.

As of now, it is easy to sit back and monitor connections, because people will do their business directly from their IP addresses.

Come SOPA, there will be a distributed, encrypted name system, and more people will move to offshore proxies. This will completely lock out passive spying, forcing LEOs to have to take an active role, either by blocking proxies by IP address, demanding endpoints have monitoring on them, or passing harsh, unenforceable laws, and then vacuuming up a script kiddy to throw a life sentence at as an example.

SOPA will just get P2P people to have to download an updated client. Law enforcement will be stuck out in the cold when all connections go dark as people start using VPNs as a matter of routine.

Re:Freedom

[danomac]

99% of the population would not understand what you are talking about. Yes, people will wind up updating their clients to get some sort of encryption which will be traceable back to their IP.

I can tell you if I ask teenagers today most won't even know what a VPN is.

It will affect casual piracy as people are thrown in jail to make an example. Hardcore pirates will use workarounds such as VPNs. The average Joe won't and will see people being thrown in jail and stop.

That's all they want.

Re:Freedom

[Synerg1y]

Don't you think the RIAA lawsuits have done something to this effect?

There's actual tangible value in piracy, it's not just a convenience feature of the internet. Robbing banks is illegal and they have spent hundreds of millions in securing them in that industry, but guess what I hear on the news a few months ago? Yep, bank STILL got robbed.

I imagine a serious increase in wifi hacking and a lot of misdirected finger pointing.

Re:Freedom

[LordLimecat]

Irrelevant, this isnt SOPA.

It looks, from this mini article (since noone seems willing to link to either the letter, or the law), like its more akin to the DMCA takedown provision. A content holder feels like their content is being illegally shared, they pass that on to a commission which determines if the case is actionable; if so, that is passed onto a judge.

Which, to my mind, sounds about right. Im not clear on why the commission is necessary, except perhaps to weed out unnecessary cases; but regardless it sounds like the courts do get involved.

Can someone explain to me how this is remotely similar to SOPA?

Re:Freedom

[Nursie]

You miss one point - it's possible to make more sophisticated P2P programs.

I don't (personally) want to get involved in it due to prevalence of child porn, but tru darknets like freenet start to look more appealing.

It would also be perfectly possible to set up an encrypted multi-bounce net that connects friends to each other to share data. Direct connections need go no further than friends-of-friends, each one trusted because a direct friend has signed for them. Each person shares a list of media they can 'see' with their connections, the kevin-bacon effect ensures that the net eventually encompasses a whole heap of people who can now trade data across the world but appear only to be connected to local folks.

Traffic disguising algorithms like those used by WASTE can hide or at least randomise a lot of traffic and... well. There are attempts in this direction already with projects like OneSwarm.

And as pipes get faster all the time this sort of thing just gets more feasible.

(no, I haven't got the search algorithm worked out yet)

Re:Freedom

[Vectormatic]

There is a difference between US companies individually saying "we dont like how spain doesnt support SOPA, we wont do our business there", which your analogy would be like, and the US imposing nationwide sanctions on trading with spain.

Re:Freedom

[SniperJoe]

Would coercion seem more appropriate to you?

Coercion: Coercion is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force. In law, coercion is codified as the duress crime. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in the desired way. Coercion may involve the actual infliction of physical pain/injury or psychological harm in order to enhance the credibility of a threat. The threat of further harm may lead to the cooperation or obedience of the person being coerced. Torture is one of the most extreme examples of coercion i.e. severe pain is inflicted until the victim provides the desired information.

Keep in mind that coercion is an integral part of extortion:

Extortion: Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense. Exaction refers not only to extortion or the unlawful demanding and obtaining of something through force,[1] but additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant.

Re:Freedom

[forkfail]

99% of the population doesn't understand dns, http, tcp/ip - yet they use a web browser.

If it can be coded at all, it can be given a point and click interface.

Re:Freedom

[AngryDeuce]

That 99% of the population will just go to the 1% that knows how to pirate shit. The cat and mouse game will continue. There are already informal "clubs" springing up just to share media. As it is now, many people in our circle carry their huge external hard drives around with them everywhere they go, explicitly so we can share media with each other. I'm the music guy, another is the movie/tv guy, another is the windows software guy, then there's the Apple software guy...hell, I even know someone that has almost any ebook I would ever want, plus thousands of comic books in a variety of formats.

The irony in all of this is, they'll spend or otherwise forego billions of dollars fighting piracy when they could put that money into providing a better product with more value and sell more than they ever did. The RIAA has been fighting music piracy for over a decade and what did they gain? Nothing. How many billions did they waste?

Piracy is like the hydra, you cut off one head and two more grow in it's place. Wiping out Napster just moved everyone to Kazaa and Limewire. Fighting Limewire just moved everyone to P2P. Fighting P2P just moved everyone to digital locker sites, and SOPA will just move everyone to encrypt their traffic and give rise to the sneakernet once again, and the only way they're going to police that is to start searching people...and once that comes to pass the U.S. Government might as well start putting it's affairs in order, because it will not last long after that...

Re:Freedom

[danomac]

99% of the population aren't really concerned with SOPA anyway.

They should be concerned... or rather they will be crying foul when they get sent to jail. Amazing how people just don't see this stuff coming.

Dear US of A

[Krneki]

Fuck off!

Re:Dear US of A

[toetagger]

The questions is: Will the people living int he US finally elect a competent set of leaders, or will this worsening problem require an external solution? I guess another alternative would be a revolution? How many more years like this?

Re:Dear US of A

[DC2088]

There's none on the ballot this year.

Re:Dear US of A

[ByOhTek]

Problem is, we get the same garbage up to the point where we are given a choice, so the question is not so much which candidate is good, as which maggot is the least rancid.

Re:Dear US of A

[jimmerz28]

We can't elect anyone who is competent until we somehow fix the lobby-centric corporate buyout principal the political environment is built on here.

People (like Obama) seem competent to voters and then turn around and act just like (or worse than) the previous administration due to their corporate entrenchment.

Re:Dear US of A

[g0bshiTe]

That's not a question, it's not like we get to actually choose who to vote for. It's like you coming over to my house for dinner and I offer you your choice of tripe or haggis. Which is the better choice?

Re:Dear US of A

[LordLimecat]

Lobbying is basically people banding together and expressing their opinion with promises of campaign money. Im not sure how you intend to get rid of that without curtailing people's right to vote, or to speech, or to the press.

Re:Dear US of A

[Man Eating Duck]

That's not a question, it's not like we get to actually choose who to vote for. It's like you coming over to my house for dinner and I offer you your choice of tripe or haggis. Which is the better choice?

Easy choice. Haggis is quite tasty, tripe... not so much. So, haggis :)

Re:Dear US of A

[CCarrot]

Fuck off!

I think you meant: "Que te jodan!", or perhaps "Ándate a la chucha!" :o)

Re:Dear US of A

[jimmerz28]

I'm not sure what people you mean? Do the majority of voters band together to contribute money to campaigns?

No the majority uses (or fails to use) his/her vote. Don't you think the vote should constitute that? Why should the people have to explicitly pay to elect officials? Shouldn't that be part of how a democratic entity uses its funds?

The ones contributing money (at least the large bulk of it) are rich individuals or corporations which is why we see such large disparities between what people want and what corporations want.

Sometimes I wonder for how horrible it was how true Mutant Chronicles corporate states will become.

Re:Dear US of A

[thisnamestoolong]

With the amount of money that it takes to be a viable candidate for the office of the president of the United States, you can be sure that anyone you see on the ballot was bought and payed for long before you had any say in the matter. Couple this with the corporate collusion in media ownership to take care of 'outliers' (not that I agree with everything he says, but look at the time Ron Paul was given in debates in relation to his poll numbers), and you have a system where we really don't get a choice at all.

Re:Dear US of A

[jahudabudy]

Im not sure how you intend to get rid of that without curtailing people's right to vote, or to speech, or to the press.

Get rid of campaign donations, or severely limit them? If you believe donations deserve the same protections as political speech, please explain why. If possible, explain why that protection for giving someone money doesn't equate to speech in any other aspect of life, either in the legal or common sense.

Re:Dear US of A

[houghi]

They are politicians. What did you expect?
Power corrupts: News at 11.

Even if you are the best willed person and set up the best government (or even company). At a later date it will become corrupt and will look not at all the people, but at some of the people. So even if you start a 0% evil it will evolved towards 100% evil.

Revolutions are there for a reason. They are there to do a reboot to 0% and the the whole process starts over again.

I am not saying that a revolution is what would help. Not yet anyway, but it will come. No idea in what form or when.

Re:Dear US of A

[jimmerz28]

Yep I just wish the citizens of foreign nations would understand that. Short of a revolt democratic change is slow and uneventful.

And I fear because of our sheer geographic size and population disbursement (in that groups who share the same ideas/ideals are geographically disconnected) we would really never get a good hold on a proper revolt.

Re:Dear US of A

[SteveFoerster]

Yes, although it kind of says something when someone refers to "that supposedly crazy person running for president" and disambiguation is needed.

Re:Dear US of A

[forkfail]

Here's how you get rid of it: you demonitize elections.

This means that you force TV and the 'net to provide certain free services: specifically, access for candidates to air time and a certain amount of bandwidth for their websites. You force the ad placement companies to put political ads into their rotation. Then you make it illegal to give money to a candidate if you're a corporation, and cap individual contributions.

Of course, the Roberts court basically made this practically impossible at this point, but there are systems that would work. Perhaps not perfectly, but well enough to massively diminish the legalized institutionalized bribery system that we call lobbying.

Re:Dear US of A

[GameboyRMH]

Paultard persecution complex, ENGAGE!

Re:Dear US of A

[Kalriath]

Since the US appears to be writing laws for everyone now, can I ask when the rest of us will be permitted to vote in US elections?

Re:Dear US of A

[glodime]

Not exactly. Joe can currently use unlimited Megacorp funds and personal funds (but why use your own money if you don't have to) to fund PACs that do the campaign work on behalf of Bill and his Campaign organization with no disclosure beyond corporation xyz gave $X (where xyz's ownership is not disclosed).

In about a 20 years...

[Anonymous Coward]

America will be the new China... everybody will hate your government, including the people who live there...

Re:In about a 20 years...

[g0bshiTe]

Your "in about 20 years" is more like now. I live in the US am a US citizen and I'm fed up with the way my government governs. What's worse is about all I can do to stop it is storm the capital.

Re:In about a 20 years...

[PhxBlue]

The difference between the U.S. and China is that (for the time being) Americans are still allowed to talk about how they hate their government. Whether the system prevents them from doing anything is a different story, but we can at least talk.

Re:In about a 20 years...

[Windwraith]

I am Spanish, and I love the US. Got a lot of friends from there, and I find them to be really good people in general terms.

The "people in charge", however, is something else entirely. But the same can be said of most countries. The worst of the worst is always governing over others.

Problem is, I am biased because I know people from the US...people who doesn't will possibly misunderstand government as people, and that's why we have wars and stuff like that in our world.

Now do you understand

[OzPeter]

Why a large part of the world considers the USA to be a big bully?

And yes .. mod me to hell for that.

Re:Now do you understand

[SniperJoe]

Being a big bully is one thing. It's one thing if we're a big bully on things like human rights. What's more distressing to me is that we're basically allowing the media companies to push the US into being a big bully for things that even our own citizens think is ridiculous.

Re:Now do you understand

[OzPeter]

Being a big bully is one thing. It's one thing if we're a big bully on things like human rights. What's more distressing to me is that we're basically allowing the media companies to push the US into being a big bully for things that even our own citizens think is ridiculous.

Before the media companies there were other commercial interests that pushed the US government to do their bidding. Go back to 1893 and you'll find that sugar interests were responsible for Hawaii being taken over by the US. And that is just one example.

Re:Now do you understand

[marcosdumay]

If you only threatened countries to do things that are good for their populations, those populations wouldn't think you are a bully, and would laugh every time their media or government claims so.

The reality is that rarely the US gets involved on the internals of another country to make its people better. But they get involved daily in things that makes other country's people worse.

Re:Now do you understand

[Anonymous Coward]

USA only seems like a bigger bully because it has bigger economic muscles. You can see France and Germany throwing their economic weight around to the detriment of smaller EU neighbors. You see China throwing its economic weight around to the detriment of the SEA neighbors. You see Russia throwing its economic weight around to the detriment of its former satellites. Yet these other bullies are rarely the focus of internet moralists, many of whom live in or are more affected by their proximity to those countries.

Re:Now do you understand

[inviolet]

Being a big bully is one thing. It's one thing if we're a big bully on things like human rights. What's more distressing to me is that we're basically allowing the media companies to push the US into being a big bully for things that even our own citizens think is ridiculous.

Before the media companies there were other commercial interests that pushed the US government to do their bidding. Go back to 1893 and you'll find that sugar interests were responsible for Hawaii being taken over by the US. And that is just one example.

Yep. Not to mention all of the banana republics in South America, who had their approximately-democratic governments violently toppled by the CIA acting on behalf of American produce companies.

America has never been The Good Guy, it has just been a typical state out to get ahead at any cost... any cost, that is, short of allowing its citizens to discover that it is not The Good Guy.

That's why the diplomatic cable leaks are such a Big Deal, and the reason why Bradley Manning will get no popular sympathy. His revelations cause American citizens to feel cognitive dissonance ("We aren't the Good Guy? Really?")... and people deeply hate those who cause them cognitive dissonance.

I'm an American citizen and I feel ashamed about the degree to which my country has fallen to regulatory capture.

Re:Now do you understand

[DCTech]

I'd mod you up had I the points.

This is the reason I can't go to a foreign country to visit. I'm American and evil even though I have no control over my government. It's those assholes that are so disconnected with the population that make us all look like tools.

Yeah, this is actually funny thing. I'm European and I can travel to anywhere in the world and people will be happy to meet me and talk to me.

Then, I once met an ex-pat guy from U.S. that said he always has to tell people that he is from Canada because they would hate him otherwise, and that he rather does that than tell them he is from U.S.

Re:Now do you understand

[aintnostranger]

For a good example of that look at US "foreign policy" on Latin America on the 20th century. We've been a playground of tactics, social and not so social experiments, etc... School of americas used some of the French guys that had tortured people in Algeria as teachers for latin american army officers. Those army officers went on to run the dictatorships that kidnapped/killed thousands. It seems US citizens are now questioning the basic goodness of their government. We stopped believing in it decades ago.

Re:Now do you understand

[Andy Dodd]

I'm really hoping that Google, Facebook, etc. pursue the "nuclear option" that has been discussed. It will kill SOPA almost instantly, making SOPA politically untouchable. It will also serve as a wakeup call to politicians that they were meant to serve the people, not lobbyists.

At this point, we'll have serious egg on our face for implying that another country is a "bad country" because their politicians didn't want to commit political suicide.

Re:Now do you understand

[Captain Hook]

Or maybe their internet moralists are just not writing in English very much and so don't get picked up as readily in the US/Canada/UK

Re:Now do you understand

[HWguy]

America has never been The Good Guy, it has just been a typical state out to get ahead at any cost... any cost, that is, short of allowing its citizens to discover that it is not The Good Guy.

That's why the diplomatic cable leaks are such a Big Deal, and the reason why Bradley Manning will get no popular sympathy. His revelations cause American citizens to feel cognitive dissonance ("We aren't the Good Guy? Really?")... and people deeply hate those who cause them cognitive dissonance.

I wish I had mod points because this is just about the most concise description of American reality I've seen in a while.

Re:Now do you understand

[Anonymous Coward]

America was one of the Good Guys circa 1941-1945. And even that is debatable. I'm not gonna argue about whether or not the nukes were necessary (I think they probably were), but you don't get to be called a Good Guy for using them.

Re:Blocklisting allies over SOPA

[firex726]

Except by not passing the law Spain is not seen as an Ally.

Far too often in recent history the US seems to be taking a "With us or Against us" stance when it comes to other countries internal dealings. They either do as we tell them, or else...

I think its time

[future assassin]

to overthrow the US gov and burn down Hollywood. The two greatest threats to freedom since Hitler. Fuck em.....

Re:I think its time

[b4dc0d3r]

NDAA says you are a thread to the country, citizen or not, and can now be detained indefinitely. And no one is going to be able to counter the massive firepower, including automated drones, to make this happen.

Maybe 11 years ago it might have been remotely possible, but the republic is here to stay until people start starving in the streets (no citizens to tax) or another country takes over violently.

Re:I think its time

[jvkjvk]

Nope.

The government would have to outsource the military action to another country.

They have the tech, but not the Will of enough people behind them to have predators shooting at people in downtown Peoria.

Fuck America ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am so fucking tired of hearing how America is bullying the world into being forced into implementing legislation that is utterly flawed and is only there to serve the interests of the *AAs.

America can go fuck themselves if this is the best they've got.

Things like fair use are legal rights in other countries, but the USA is working to be sure that we all have the same lowest common denominator -- them.

I think someone should start passing laws holding the US accountable for the financial melt-down they caused, and for charging them for the implementation of the laws they've been ramming down everyone else's throats.

America has become a bunch of pathetic, whining cowards who are only worried about copyright, and making sure they can buy cheap oil.

Re:Fuck America ...

[spire3661]

We, the People, DO NOT WANT THIS. Politicians and businessmen do. We are as powerless as you concerning these matters.

Re:Fuck America ...

[NatasRevol]

Well, not AS powerless. But we'd have to group together, in VERY large groups, to do anything about it.

Re:Fuck America ...

[aintnostranger]

Powerless? You are not. Come back and tell me that after you get a big chunk of population marching on the streets and getting shot for it. In Syria people are powerless. So the government officials you guys elected don't act like they should?? Mass protest / strike till they are out of office. Until you try such things and fail you ARE NOT POWERLESS.

Re:Fuck America ...

[FunkyLich]

This so true. I mean, there have been now several years (to put it mildly) that in my mind there is a downward and backward push that the USA is imposing on the World. I'm sure they have many good things, they have brilliant minds at work there, state of the art technology is produced there... these are what give it an edge. But damn it, all these don't justify this fervor to push others down when they try to improve themselves. Summing it up: You innovate? Fill this patent application form please, it's cheap, several billions. You produce raw product? Not without us protecting your factories from theft, for a fee. You have natural reserves? Can't sell em around, we have created a global legislation for that, it says you need to use our currency only. You have an idea? You bloody anarchist who wants to experiment with well established routine. You fell head down and now are seeing stars? Not without the stripes. You are an atheist? We shunned Bertrand Russell once, so shut up, you nazi communist materialist ethicless immoral piece of sh!t. Really, I don't like to generalise, but it is in moments like this when from the depths of my being comes roaring: Who do you think you are, you prime thief of the entire World? Live and let live, you idiotic cowboy!

Re:Fuck America ...

[yabos]

Part of the US politician's plans is making the public lazy and complacent. It's working. In general, the USA population is getting dumber, lazier and fatter. Good luck getting all those dumb lazy people to get up off the couch and do anything about their failing country. You all know it's the truth

Re:Fuck America ...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you're right. The people are not being shot in the streets in America. They are having chemical weapons, banned under the Geneva convention, deployed against them at peaceful protests. That's much better.

Speaking as someone who was pepper-sprayed, beaten, and detained for a legal, peaceful demonstration, I'd say we've got a few problems here.

I'm absolutely sick of it...

[g0bshiTe]

First I'm an American, I live in the US always have. I'm am just fed up with my government. How in the hell can they be so disconnected, and how in the hell do they expect to impose their will on other nations. Fucking hell isn't that what the initial settlers came over here to get away from?

Re:I'm absolutely sick of it...

[L4t3r4lu5]

No. The initial settlers came over to get away from the oppression of their own religious ideals, but ended up oppressing the ideals of the nation they were settling. It's the same throughout history.

Spain sent Columbus

[tekrat]

I find it so ironic that the USA is threatening a country that essentially found this side of the planet (admittedly, there were already people living here, but those indigenous populations are usually ignored by history books).

Secondly, exactly what items from Spain will stop being in Walmart if a trade embargo goes into place? And with "globalization", all Spain has to do is ship via a third party in a preferred trading partner status, like China or Canada.

And lastly, America is a failing empire. Apart from having a big military that they are borrowing heavily from the Chinese to pay for, they are no longer a threat. Rome lasted much, much longer, and was managed far better than the USA. A shame really.

Re:Why I love being an ex-pat living in China

[Anonymous Coward]

Pirated games and movies don't affect me, either. Does that mean I should shrug my shoulders and go "that's cute"? Fact is, while we should be concerned about copyright laws, it is YOU who should be MORE afraid of a country willing to censor "political stuff" You are only able to enjoy the life of an ex-pat because you have the luxury of leaving China whenever the politics do start to affect you.

A civil reply?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear United States of America,

We acknowledge your concerns over the political decisions of a sovereign state and, politely, refer you to the reply given in Arkell v. Pressdram.

Spain

Re:Why I love being an ex-pat living in China

[Anonymous Coward]

The local censorship is just political stuff so doesn't affect me. In fact it's quite cute.

...posted AC

The sad irony in this matter..

[Superken7]

Actually, thanks to Wikileaks we now know that the head of PROMUSICAE (the RIAA-equivalent in Spain), Guisasola, secretly pushed for having Spain included in the infamous 301 List. http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=10MADRID179
After Spain was finally included in that list, he claimed that being included in that list was "a national dishonor", and used this argument in order to push for Ley Sinde, the aforementioned SOPA-like law.

Only a few days ago, this law was finally passed. Most Internet users are against this law because it does not change which sites become illegal - it merely changes the *referee*. As a result, judges have been replaced by a commission whose members are privately selected by private lobbying parties (aka spain's RIAA). This might sound like something outrageous, but sadly this is exactly what has happened.
If this was not bad enough, keep in mind that this occurs right after *years* of judges ruling *in favor* of those websites that they want to take down (no hosting sites, just linking sites)

Re:The sad irony in this matter..

[Anonymous Coward]

Spaniard here. Totally true history.

More outrageous details: they carefully worded the law so that there are two judges involved in the process of closing a web page. And all they do is checking the paperwork is correctly done, not if the page should be closed or not!! Go figure... any web page the commission says is against someone's intellectual property will be closed in a hat's drop, and only after a pair of years fighting in the courts it will be ruled if the web page should come back or not. A pair of years, literally!! That's way too much for someone's starting a new bussiness on the net. This law is just a workarround since the judges in Spain where issuing "not guilty" to every filesharing case, since in spanish law filesharing was legal as long as you wasn't making money in the process.

And worst of all, there are so many fires in Spain right now, there's literally not enough people to fight back, because they are fighting back too many problems at the same time! Did you know Spain's health care system was universal and free as in beer (read paid through taxes), and they are trying to turn it into USA style private health care system? And that's just the iceberg tip...

Occupy this, occupy that.

[C_Kode]

They need to stop occupying parks and what not and start occupying the front yards and offices of the politicians that are trying to impose SOPA.

These guys are dirty and are obviously getting money in their bank accounts for doing this.

The media needs to expose these guys by putting their face all over the news papers, magazines, blogs, TV, etc. Expose these political criminals and get them the hell out of office.

Re:Occupy this, occupy that.

[b4dc0d3r]

From the meetings I've seen, they could be genuinely clueless and taking the word of someone who has enough money to take them out to lunch. Anti-SOPA people don't have connected lobbyists. Plus, the pols are proud of their ignorance and sneered at the experts who said this was a bad thing.

Politicians are always dirty, this is no exception. And they need to be shamed every time they do something stupid. But blaming it on straight up bribery is missing important points about the many ways Congress is dysfunctional.

Rewrite that as "US threaten war with Spain"

[marcosdumay]

As a comercial embargo is an act of war, the replaced headline would be acurate. Remember that the US is still discussing if it should embargo Iran... Now compare to the decision about Spain.

It seems like Spain needs a nuclear program.

Great news for the conspiracy theorists!

[pla]

For everyone normally making fun of the tinfoil hat crowd, we have here nothing short of concrete proof of a vast (global?) intergovernmental conspiracy by the oligarchy to fuck... us... all.

We've discussed the technical merits (or lack thereof) of SOPA here on Slashdot numerous times, and always, the inescapable conclusion came out that we simply had Luddites and idiots for leaders. Now, we have a better, more accurate answer. Our leaders may still count as idiots, but they fully realize just how deliberately-bad a law they've crafted in SOPA.

Can you hear the drums in the distance, getting ever closer, Washington?

Re:A: "Don't push it, putas", or?

[ccguy]

I expect the Spanish to show cojones over this.

We didn't. But I see lots of comments here about the US being a bully. The problem (here) is not that the US is a bully, which isn't new, but that the Spanish government caved.
Also, to add some relevant info, this law was written with the previous government (changed last month) but passed by the new one. And this is a two party country (for being in power purposes I mean, there's lots of parties but doesn't matter much here). So you can see that we are fucked here.
Anyway - we do have a tendency to pass laws that eventually aren't enforced, so this can be just one of them. For example, and this is my car analogy, you can see what we do with traffic signs.

Same thing happened in Canada

[future assassin]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/09/07/canada-to-u-s-please-blacklist-us/ and it wasn't really publicized in the media that the serfs read just some tech columns here and there. Oh, what came of it this near treason actions......nothing.

Responsibility

[trptrp]

You US citizens at some point in future will need to understand that though we don't hate you, but your government and associated corporate behaviors, you have a responsibility for who represents you. If you continue to not uphold to that responsibility it get's harder and harder to respect you. As individuals you would laugh at me since I'm probably much weaker then you. But I know that we have learned a lot through time. Your nation is really young and there's so much collective experiences you never had. Please don't make the mistake and fight for north America staying like it is. I believe in better futures for everybody.

In Capatilist America...

[eagee]

We're the insensitive clods :-(. I find this so embarrassing - SOPA has like 15% public support and we're pushing it on other countries? *sigh* The worst part is that even though we can vote in new politicians, our electorate is completely broken; and I have no idea how to fix that...

Re:Ok seriously, WAKE UP!!!!

[Pi1grim]

s/Obama/US government for the last couple of decades
There, FTFY.

Why Spain?

[Lincolnshire Poacher]

The Economist covered the reasons some weeks ago, starting at the sixth paragraph.

Basically, music sales ( real and online ) in Spain are at an all-time low. 10 million albums sold in 2010 in a country of 50 million people.

If there is any country in which the big media conglomerates feel they have lost, it is Spain. Little wonder they're pressuring to have Spain "punished".

Re:Why Spain?

[Alioth]

If piracy had disappeared altogether, though, Spanish album sales would still be at an all-time low. Unemployment is over 20% and salaries for everyone else have gone down, so it's hardly surprising that spending on non-essentials is at an all time low. In particuar, unemployment amongst the young (who are probably the people who buy the most albums) is around 40%. Piracy has very little to do with it.

Re:Republitarians no better

[SeNtM]

I am far from being a republican, but I would likely vote for Ron Paul. He may be a loon, but he has been consistent and has shown a degree of moral aptitude, while other politicians pander to corporate interest. The Republican party has toted the line of less government influence for 100-years, yet, where are we? There have been as many Republican controlled justices, congressmen, and presidents, if not more, than Democratic ones.

Its time to put your money where your mouth is right-wingers...

Excellent comedy sketch

[zooblethorpe]

Wait... you mean we are the baddies? That must explain the skulls on our hats.

For anyone not familiar with the paraphrased quote above, I *highly* recommend you watch the source of the quote, this short clip from That Mitchell and Webb Look, one of the funnier British comedy duos of recent years.

Cheers,