Ask Slashdot: Advancing a Programming Career?

AuMatar writes "I've been a professional programmer for 10 years. The startup I work for was recently bought, and while I was offered a full-time job, I opted to accept only a six-month contract. At my most recent job, I was lead developer for a platform that shipped tens of millions of units, leading a team that spanned up to three geographical areas I've done everything from maintenance to brand new apps. About the only thing I haven't done is been lead architect on a large system. What else is there to look for in the next job so it won't just feel like the same challenges all over again? I'm not interested in starting my own company, so I'm looking for suggestions assuming I'll be working for someone else."

Comments

Own Company or Game Designing

[antitithenai]

While you say you're not interested in starting own company, why is that? Since you've been lead developer and are looking for further challenges, there really isn't much where you can go. Either you have to switch your area of work, go to management (which also switches your area of work) or start your own company.

Having your company is definitely interesting and provides new interesting challenges. You also have much more personal feel to your work. At times it can be exhausting, but it's also really rewarding - but to yourself, and of course to your wallet. I wouldn't do anything else than running my own company at this point. It is definitely much more interesting than working for someone else.

Apart from that, what is your line of work? Maybe switch to more interesting part of the industry. Game development can be fun too, if you're just done some other kind of software programming. However, I would really suggest you look into game designing and not programming. The latter is crunch work that can be done by almost anyone and in the long run extremely annoying. Designing is fun.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Anonymous Coward]

I would really suggest you look into game designing and not programming. The latter is crunch work that can be done by almost anyone and in the long run extremely annoying. Designing is fun.

I did games for 17 years and I disagree with that statement.
There are parts of game development that can be done by almost anyone, and those parts suck. Things like shitty game AI and front ends. Things that don;t take any insight, just hours of monkey work.
Then there are the parts that separate out the chaff, the low level optimization and driver stuff. I did the latter for almost all of my career and it was a blast. Every five years or so a new generation of hardware comes down the pipe and you get to wrap your head around a whole new set of problems building on the knowledge and experiences of before. Going form the old 8 bit stuff all the way to current consoles has been a hell of a ride.
As for game designers, I've only worked with a couple that weren't idiots. The biggest problem I had with them is their inability to think about their decisions ahead of time and require the devs to actually build the bad ideas before understanding how awful their decisions actually were. The good designers were a blessing to work with. They had a clear vision and an understanding on how to get there. The projects with good designers you build once. The projects with poor designers get built two or three times on the way to final and are usually poorer for the effort.

If you think you could be a good game designer then GO FOR IT! The industry needs you.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Anrego]

I can sympathize with not wanting to start your own company.

Marketing, accounting, networking, hell just coming up with an idea all things I very much detest. Being a wage slave sucks in a lot of ways but at the same time: you show up, do the thing you love (for the most part) and get paid enough to be happy. You don’t have to worry about how it makes money or where the next project is coming from... that’s someone else’s job.

If you can partner up with a guy who has the same passion for wearing suits and working in power point as you do for cranking out killer code... then maybe it would be alright.. but having to deal with all that stuff yourself (in addition to actually writing the software) sounds like a nightmare to me at least.

Obviously some people enjoy the whole package.. but we don’t all have that entrepreneurial drive, and I think going that route just to get more interesting coding projects is a bad move.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[maple_shaft]

Game development is great if you like working 80+ hours per week and getting paid half of what your friends are making writing uninspiring business apps. Do yourself a favor and make sure that you REALLY like doing this sort of thing, and I mean having a serious passion for it, or else you will either not make it or you will be miserable.

To hell with game development, because I work to live, not live to work.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[darronb]

Last I checked, pay in the game industry was very low for the talent required. Given that so many want to do it, I can't imagine that's changed much.

Recommending the game industry to someone who isn't seeking it out in the first place is just wrong. It's simply not worth it unless you REALLY REALLY want to be there.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[timeOday]

If you can partner up with a guy who has the same passion for wearing suits and working in power point as you do for cranking out killer code... then maybe it would be alright...

I think that would inevitably wind up a Steve Jobs / Steve Wozniak situation - in the best case, if the endeavor were really successful, he would gradually leave you in the dust and replace you. Whoever manages the money and touches it first has all the leverage. Might as well work for a larger company with more stability. (Granted Wozniak never had to work again, but Apple's level of success is unusual to say the least).

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Ihmhi]

Regarding this topic, I'd love to know why so many game companies get it into their heads to code their own engines.

However much they want to do it, there's an engine out there that they can license and it will do almost anything. The Unreal engine is, what, like $200,000 K? That's 3-5 programmers for a year right there (and there's no way they can make something halfway decent in that time unless they're really skilled and command a high enough salary which defeats the purpose.)

With all of the prefabricated software we have nowadays (the only term I could think of that fits), it should be a matter of assembling all of the pieces and then doing the artwork, UI, unique AI elements, etc.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Ihmhi]

Wozniak was the creative guy who enjoyed engineering stuff.

Jobs was the business mind, the one who handled all of the numbers, contracts, etc.

This kind of relationship isn't all that insane. It *can* work very well - let the creative guy make stuff, let the business guy sell it. Now if only they would filter this method down to entire companies. R&D is pretty much in the shitter at most major companies nowadays.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Homr Zodyssey]

Consulting. You can do it through a consulting firm if you don't want to be your own boss. You can make damn good money at it -- especially if you can specialize in one of the big-name platforms like SAP, Axapta, Rockwell, or Great Plains. I'm currently doing this through a firm, so I don't have to find the work. I get benefits, and I have clients in completely different industries month to month.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[johnsnails]

really $200,000K or $200,000?

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Pope]

Two hundred thousand dollar kroners!

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Anonymous Coward]

Licensing an engine is only useful if it DOES WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. If you want to make a FPS and you don't mind it looking like Unreal, sure license Unreal. What do you license for a GTA style game when you need to differentiate yourself from the crowd? There are game engines available for certain genres that are OK on the PC. Finding a good engine that does what you want that is cross developed on PCs and consoles is a complete waste of time. Besides, our engines were better :-)

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Grishnakh]

The problem is that, while this relationship would seem to be ideal, in the real world it rarely works out, because the business guy takes advantage of the creative guy and tosses him out when he's able to replace him with someone cheaper. Someone above said it succinctly: the one who controls the money has all the leverage. Why do you think so many smart people want to go into finance and banking? He who controls the gold...

It worked out OK for Woz (but did he get the same wealth as Jobs? I doubt it), but for most it doesn't.

R&D is in the shitter at most major companies for this exact same reason. The phenomenon completely scales between very large and very small companies; the people controlling the money are usually sociopathic and screw over the creative and engineering types whenever it suits them and their personal wealth and power.

That's why it's better, if you can stand it, to start your own company and do the business stuff yourself even though it might not be your cup of tea. As you grow, hire some other people to handle certain parts of it for you: hire or contract an accountant (you can get them part-time) to handle the company's books; hire someone to deal with customer service issues, only bugging you for the more complex stuff they can't handle; etc. But never give up control/ownership of the business to someone else, and never share ownership with some "business guy". They'll just fuck you over when it's convenient for them. Yes, this is basically just like becoming a manager, but unlike being a lowly first-line or middle manager at some big corporation, 1) you get to work on stuff you really have a passion for, 2) you can set your own hours, and 3) you'll reap all the financial rewards of your hard work, not some executives and shareholders. It's a fallacy that corporate managers are paid more than engineers at tech companies; the higher-level ones are, but the low-level ones (i.e. the ones directly supervising a team of engineers) aren't. They're only there to try to work their way up to the better-paying high-level positions, or because they were never very good engineers to begin with and are better at running their mouths and sitting in meetings all day.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Grishnakh]

Yep, that seems to be a common theme about working at game companies. Perhaps the secret is to start your own game company. You'll still work 80+ hours a week, but you get to make all the decisions and work on games that interest you the most, and if your game is a big hit on the Android/iPhone app store, you're going to be the one collecting all the cash.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[AuMatar]

To form a startup (I have no interest in being a consultant type, I despise business networking and self-salesmanship) I'd need a brilliant idea. I'm out of those at the moment. I'd also need someone else to do the business end. I understand business, but I'm not enough of a people person to do the sales/marketing stuff with non-technical people.

Also, I have a mortgage. That makes me leery of not having income for more than a year. I'd need to get angel funding very quickly, which once again requires a hell of an idea. I'm really not the type of guy who comes up with revolutionary ideas, I'm the type who figures out how to implement one or does small evolutionary type ideas.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Anonymous Coward]

Funnily enough, where i work it's reversed - I gross $60k as a game developer with 2 years of web dev experience and some game related portfolio pieces, vs $45k at the web company I worked at previously and $50-$55k at one of the local big corps where most of my friends work.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Grishnakh]

Sorry, I should have been more clear; the "common theme" I hear about game developers is the long working hours and stress and eventual burnout. I don't really know about the pay part (I only read people bitching about the hours usually), but even if you get 50% more pay than your friends writing boring business apps, if you're working twice as many hours as them, you're still getting paid less for your time.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[Anonymous Coward]

Because every game built with UE3 looks like they were built with UE3.

Sometimes you have to build your own if you want to stand out from the crowd.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[kestasjk]

Take Trine as an example; it is one of the best looking games I've ever seen, and it runs wonderfully even on mediocre hardware (by today's standards):

• It doesn't look like anything else. It's not just Postal or one of those games that are reskins, those are boring
• If they had just put a new story and artwork on an existing engine anyone could see their success and just do the same thing; they've got their own engine so only they could release Trine 2, and reap the benefits
• With stuff like game engines the reason they're so massive and expensive is because yes they are incredible technology, but also because they're so adaptable to so many different games. (Relatively speaking) If your make an engine for your company's game it might serve that game beautifully even though it took nowhere near $200k to write, just because they didn't need the huge depth and flexibility of a full engine

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[plover]

Maybe he's German, where they use the comma to indicate the decimal separator.

So in USD, that would be $200.000K -- in other words, a very precisely rounded number.

Re:Own Company or Game Designing

[zeroshade]

How is reading a book different from playing a video game? Both are a hobby that one can partake in that provides enjoyment. Both take a lot of work to produce. But one is referred to as an "adolescent mentality" and the other is not, that makes no sense.

Did you know the average gamer is 21 - 35 years old? You going to say that everyone in the entire industry has an adolescent mentality? Give me a break...

Natural Transition

[rwven]

A natural transition for programmers can be "Enterprise Architect" roles. This will still allow you a modicum of programming, and you get to be at a slightly higher paygrade, with pseudo-managerial powers. If you're decent at your job already, this gives you more of a top-down on the process so you can truly shape a project rather than simply build the shape someone else has given to it.

Just my $0.02.

Re:Natural Transition

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with this is that the role of an Enterprise Architect varies wildly from role to role. In some organizations it is exactly as you describe. In some organizations it is mostly a political favor handed down to somebody connected. In others the Architects are a miserable cesspool of the most stodgy ivory tower types that come up with terrible ideas that amount to mental masturbation and whip up convuluted half-completed prototypes that only vaguely demonstrate the original idea they came up with, then handing over that unfinished and likely technically impossible to implement prototype to a group of developers to turn into a product.

Re:Natural Transition

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually he should go into politics, look at what those brain-dead idiots are coming up with, SOPA WTF?? If that's not enough of a challenge, well, I don't know what is.

Re:Natural Transition

[Homr Zodyssey]

The problem with this is that the role of an Enterprise Architect varies wildly from role to role. In some organizations it is exactly as you describe. In some organizations it is mostly a political favor handed down to somebody connected. In others the Architects are a miserable cesspool of the most stodgy ivory tower types that come up with terrible ideas that amount to mental masturbation and whip up convuluted half-completed prototypes that only vaguely demonstrate the original idea they came up with, then handing over that unfinished and likely technically impossible to implement prototype to a group of developers to turn into a product.

I totally agree with AC.

Dilbert

[Aighearach]

If you're not interested in starting a "business" and being a consultant, your choices are basically Dilbert or PHB.

Re:Dilbert

[jellomizer]

Keep in mind Dilbert and the PHB are stereotypes used to make a form of entertainment well... entertaining. Going into management doesn't mean you will not use a computer again or never code. But you will be challenge yourself with new problems, when you go to management level you really see things with a different perspective. You see you are making decisions that you would have thought would be idiotic, make more sense as you see more trade-offs you need to make.
For example. You may make a decision that all new code should be done in C#.net even though you know the advantages of all the other programs and you know .NET combines the slow speed of Java with the Platform independence of just making it in C++, however you see when trying to find new developers most of them have C# on their resume so it makes it easier for you to hire new people to maintain the projects. Or having to go to your team and tell them that their program is Good enough to be released, even though you know there are still rough edges. But on the brighter side you are also more involved in the decision making process, you really can be part of the creative process on making the application and you can get your way, and push for what you learned to be a good thing.

Consultants are not as evil, as Unions who feel threatened by them make them out to be. For the most part their motivation is to get the work done, so they will be hired again, as well empower the people working at the location so they end up looking good.

Re:Dilbert

[Anonymous Coward]

There are always Dogbert, Catbert, Ratbert and last but not least Wally.

Figure out what you like

[PCM2]

Are you interested in anything besides programming? Maybe head that direction. I don't mean stop programming and do something else, I mean find a job where your programming skills will be contributing toward something worthwhile and that you're interested in. That might mean working on software to help find new cures for deadly diseases, or it might mean being a lead programmer for the NFL. Whatever floats your boat. If you're a part of a team that's doing something that you genuinely like and that enriches your own life, maybe it you'll be less concerned about "the same old challenges" and you'll be happy just to contribute toward the end goal.

Re:Figure out what you like

[aix tom]

That would be my preferred choice also. At the moment I'm at a fun but somewhat dead-end job (About one third development, one third administration and one third figuring out what the hell people actually want). I enjoy doing it, but when I have paid off some loans in 5-6 years I will probably have a look for something new.

Basically two options I have started to look into:

- Switch Industries.
So far I have worked in manufacturing companies and retail companies. Perhaps I will try to get into something more technological / scientific. I have started to network a little with people from a aerospace research facility to see if there are any options for a garden variety geek there.

- Switch location
Another option would be to try to go to some-place new. I'm taking a few language lessons already to give me some options there.

But I *definetely* know I don't want to do anything management related. I like fixing technical problems, so that is where I will stay work-wise.

Re:Figure out what you like

[Anrego]

I totally agree, and this is heavily overlooked.

Very few jobs are pure programming .. software is rarely written for the sake of software, it's almost always programming + . A lot of people don't factor that in.. figuring if they are doing cool c++, the reason probably doesn't matter.

Personally I think that part adds a lot of interest to a job and when you get to a point where you can be a little choosier about your job (vice out of school when you get the first job that gives you the time of day) it would seem sensible to aim in an area you enjoy.

Re:Figure out what you like

[Anrego]

fack..

* it's almost always programming + <some industry>

* Personally I think that <some industry> part adds a lot of interest

Slashdot feature suggestion: yes we get that we have a forced preview.. but we are lazy. Maybe check what's between the < and > and if it isn't something that makes sense.. warn the user!

Re:Figure out what you like

[tebee]

I'd add my vote to that too - I've been a programer since the days of Assembler on IBM 360 days and have drifted through many jobs over the years, from support to networking to consultancy but always keep my hand in doing a little coding.

About 7 years ago had several major crises in my life that made me review my life priorities and realized that though I was still a good(but dyslexic) programer, there were young bucks who could do it faster than me and people in the third world who could do it for 50th of what I wanted to charge.

Re-invented myself as a 3-d designer making things for my hobby - making a fraction of my consultant's fees, but it's steadily growing and I get to do things I enjoy all day.

I've also downsized my life , bought a house in a cheaper country for cash and don't run flash cars any more, got a new wife and am as happy as Larry. Now these choices may not be right for you, but they worked for me, you need to decide what is right for you.

     

Hmmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

I was a developer for nine years. Moved into management for a different company five years ago. Now I oversee software development, project management, network support and a few other odds and ends. It's been an interesting career path and not one I think I can reduce to a seven step program for you...

Teach

[Anonymous Coward]

I would look around for the opportunity to break in to the education field. There is no field more challenging and the real life experience you would bring to the classroom would be invaluable to the students.

Re:Teach

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Yes but you already stated the main problem with that idea, the students. They're worse than users. Plus the pay flat sucks in comparison to the private sector for someone with serious skills.

Re:Teach

[i.r.id10t]

But there are always a few students each semester that make you really glad you were teaching...

And, the hours are typically flexible enough (a FT instructor here at the college I work for has to be on campus about 25 hours a week) that having your own consulting gig on the side to make some extra $ is very possible.

Not to mention (still) good state health and retirement benefits, extra pay for working summers (or the whole summer off), etc.

Re:Teach

[flaming error]

> the students. They're worse than users.

Far be it from me to say there are no stupid users or students.

But isn't it possible, that given different teachers and apps, some students and users might be more successful?

Blaming the problem on the peons whilst ignoring the conditions we forced them into is a really trite meme. Let's try wearing their shoes before dissing their limp.

Systems Engineer

[Anonymous Coward]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10468165-71.html Best job in America.

If you're wondering what jobs were beaten out by the joys of system engineering, well, second came physician assistant. Have you seen how much money these people make? Quite astounding. In third place was college professor. Yes, really. Followed by nurse practitioner, IT project manager, and--breathe now, breathe--CPA.

If you don't already have the formal qualifications, you are well equipped to get them. Go for it!

"Programmer" verses "Problem Solver/Value Adder"

[porsche911]

If you continue to present yourself as a "programmer" you will continue to get programming assignments. What sort of projects are you good at? What types of problems can you solve? Think of yourself as a business instead of as an 'employee'. The old "You Weren't Meant to Have A Boss" mindset (see: http://www.paulgraham.com/boss.html ).

Get out there and do something cool, don't sit around waiting for someone to tell you what to do!

Plenty of Options

[Anonymous Coward]

As you seem to have plenty of experience and deep skills, go indie. Be a company of one, or have your own team. Consult on a specific piece of a project, then move on. You'll (typically) get a higher paycheck with time off in between projects for other interests, family, writing a book, building new skills, or teaching. Contract out the parts you don't like, such as administration.

Try Freelance commission work

[Anonymous Coward]

Offer your services for a price. See who offers you a nibble. If you find it interesting, great, if not, just make sure your offering is for consideration not commitment.

Re:Try Freelance commission work

[PCM2]

The only problem I see with freelancing is that he specifically says he wants to advance his career. When you're a freelancer, people tend to want to hire you to do the thing you did last time. It's just the nature of the beast; you're probably going to get a lot of jobs by word of mouth, and the word of mouth is going to be "when we needed that same thing, we hired this guy -- you should hire him, too." Also, people tend to underestimate the amount of hustle it takes to be a freelancer. You're always thinking about your next job, which means you tend to be reluctant to turn down paying work. These two factors make it very easy to fall into a rut.

Re:Try Freelance commission work

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't agree. What I find more often is that they become confident in me and start to ask for more and different things. The sky becomes the limit as I strech myself to keep up with that. If they are only asking you for one thing, then either that is just the limit of their need, or else you didn't wow them.

If you still enjoy it...

[s_p_oneil]

IMO it's not so much about advancing a career as it is about finding new things to learn (the learning is the fun part). If you still enjoy it, I would recommend looking for something that requires different languages, tools, skill-sets, etc. so you can continue learning and keeping it fun.

If you're tired of it, then go for management or a lateral movement. Some have mentioned an architect role, but there are also positions like product and/or project management, technical lead for a sales team, etc.

Re:If you still enjoy it...

[Anonymous Coward]

This. I recently started taking the free online classes offered by stanford for machine learning, ai, natural language processing and these topics are all 'new' enough to me that I enjoy programming in them. I think the problem the original poster might be experiencing is that he's solving similar problems over and over again (probably writing CRUD apps). Learn something new and programming will become exciting again.

Roll the dice, then.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't want to retire, work for yourself or start a company, then isn't your only remaining career choice to do as you are told?

That's the employment deal. If I hire you, you do what I tell you, and I pay you.

If you're lucky, the things I tell you to do will be the things I thought I'd be telling you to do when I hired you.

If you're unlucky, conditions have changed so I'm going to be telling you to do something else.

Re:Roll the dice, then.

[fatmonkeyboy]

Just because you are working for someone doesn't mean you are their bitch. Someone with marketable skills will move on to something else if you treat them poorly. Good luck keeping your company going when all of your employees are the kinds of people that don't have any better options.

Re:Roll the dice, then.

[rohan972]

Someone with marketable skills will move on to something else if you treat them poorly.

Even if you get treated well by a boss you will still have to do what they say. Otherwise why would they hire you?

Re:Roll the dice, then.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a matter of degree between doing what you're told (or asked to do?) and being someone's bitch, which makes it sound like the consequence of not sucking your boss' dick is getting stabbed.

Job Satisfaction

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been a professional programmer for 30 years. I've been everything from a grunt to a lead developer and have had some products wind up on millions of PCs and watched many millions of dollars be blown by incompetent executives on others. If you're dead set on working for someone else and you're in a position to do due diligence on a company, its executives, its history, and its current financial situation before accepting an offer, then do it. However, don't be surprised if you ultimately burn out on trusting employers to provide the satisfaction that you derive from writing software and start thinking about starting your own company to obtain that satisfaction. If I could give advice to myself 20 years ago, it would've been to start thinking about starting my own company a lot earlier.

Similar Situation

[jomama717]

I've been a developer for about the same amount of time as you and am now a tech lead/team lead, where "tech lead" means I'm the go-to guy for the organization on anything to do with my particular product (new design/architecture, integrations, major issues, what have you), and "team lead" means I act as the manager of all of the developers/testers under me (reviews, layoffs, vacation approval, all that crap).

I'm coming to the realization that I kind of hate this role...I can only put myself down for 5-10 hours a week of actual development, and even that is usually a stretch, and the management stuff is quite stressful. It is shocking how differently people behave when you go from their peer to their manager. So, I find myself in a similar situation, what do I do now? I am the best developer available to work on my product, yet I am unable to find any time to actually code...all I can do is quickly spec things out as best I can, pass them to my team (also spread around the world) and get back to fire control/integration meetings/budget planning/etc. It's extremely frustrating.

My thoughts wander from 1) Just suck it up, dive into the management aspect, do as much coding as I can on the side to scratch that itch (it is my true love), 2) Find another job that is purely technical - lead dev/architect, what have you (would probably lead to the same situation I'm in), or 3) Say f**k it and go totally off the reservation - try to start something on my own, or become a teacher and work on stuff on the side or something, complicating this option is the small matter of a family to feed... I just don't know.

Re:Similar Situation

[wmelnick]

Here is the problem you are about to face... Next time you work under someone, you are going to second-guess everything they do. What you need to do it to ask your company to send you for management training, my guess is that based on how you phrased things you have never had any. After that you need to take the time to figure out how to explain to your subordinates how you want something done and let them do it. You may think you are the best person to do something, but if you can teach 5 or 10 (or more) people to do it the same way, that makes you far more valuable to the company and will get a you a larger paycheck as well. You just need to figure out how to do it all in a way that does not stress you to the point of snapping and eventually it will become easy and natural. All that being said there is nothing to stop you from trying to teach the occasional night class at a local college.

Re:Similar Situation

[jomama717]

Sage advice, thank you. Your assumption with respect to management training is correct, in spite of me continually asking for it for the past two years.

Re:Similar Situation

[Anonymous Coward]

You're on the way (or may I say Highway to Hell) to fulfill the prophecy of the Peter Principle: "In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence" (look it up if you don't know about this yet). You're almost already there—either you get in the habit to really like managment (and become proficient in this) or you try some means to get a job you like. In the same company (which is hard, because going back to programming looks like degradation) or you have to look for another employment in programming, not management.

Re:Similar Situation

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds to me like you love programming and want to remain a programmer... so why do you need to advance? If you're happy as a programmer and don't want to move into management then stay a programmer! Tell them no when they offer you the promotion.

 

Re:Similar Situation

[jomama717]

It's interesting, it was never really put before me in that way - to be honest it's hard to trace back to how I ended up in this position. People leave, there are big shakeups, massive layoffs - all of which lead to frantic phone calls with you, your boss, and your boss's boss "asking you" to pick up some of the slack "until we can backfill those positions". Next thing you know, you're a manager. Or a developer with a large cylindrical shaft suddenly where it shouldn't be, depending how you look at it.

There are some aspects of it I really do enjoy (not the shaft part, heh) - running a small development team (with good, motivated people on it) is a real joy most of the time, but for whatever reason that is not a stable situation at my company - once you're there they just start throwing more crap at you.

Re:Similar Situation

[Genda]

You know, the nerd amongst us are really the worst communicating bunch of people on the planet (except for everyone else :-) We don't deal with getting our hearts broke or our asses kicked very well because of childhood trauma for being different. So we put up with virtually infinite discomfort that ultimately demands we either go dead inside or commit some for of professional seppuku. So here are some dots placed CLOSE TOGETHER for you to follow.

1. Tell your management what you want. Explain to them where your biggest contribution to them are. Let them know that you appreciate the fact they have a plan. let them know that you want to empower their success and that requires using you most efficiently. Frame the conversation to their benefit, while explaining why you need what you need.

2. If you manage other people, Let them know that you are their champion, you're here to make their lives work. You are not their Father, you aren't there either to throw a couple in the backyard (though having fun it totally part of the gameplan), and you're not there to whip their hinnie if they behave poorly (though shitty performance beget a shitty review.) They are here to be party to building something, and your are here to point the way, conduct, and celebrate the accomplishments of your team members. Have them actually use you to grow themselves in a way that's important to them. Then treat them with infinite respect and dignity even when you feel like kicking them in the groin

3. Start your own company, absolutely do something different, EXPERIENCE DISCOMFORT, here's a fantastic rule: Profound satisfaction is inversely proportional to comfort. We get complacent. We slowly succumb to TV and potato chips. We go for the rut. You what a rut is? It's a coffin with the ends knocked out and you walk back and forth until you lie down in it. Challenge yourself. Grow a pair. Take a chance. Life is out there. Life demands creating new and powerful relationships. Stop trying to do it all by yourself. Get coaching. Take a class. Make connections. Find out where successful entrepreneurs meet and go there (you'd be amazed at how many are interested in helping you get started.) NETWORK YOUR ASS OFF!!! Use social networks.

4. As a group, we have this profound need to know everything before we attempt, quantify all the variables, plan for all the contingencies. This is a nonsubtle form of mental masturbation, and will displace your potential future with a million good reasons why you shouldn't leave the nest... consider you were born to fly and not flying is a waste of your purpose. If nothing else. There is a great course available all over the world, I'm not proselytizing the provider, they're great people don't get me wrong, but pushing their business is... well, their business :-) It's called the "Team Management and Leadership Program". It's a two year program to train you in powerful distinctions in being able to create enterprises both personal and professional, connect them with huge global networks and make them brilliantly productive all the while having more fun than the law should allow. Its not particularly cheap, but its not financial rape either. Part of the cost is the fact that there are 3 prerequisite classes that come before it (but they are weekend seminars, and with any luck you can get them out of the way over in anything from 2 to 6 months (the courses are surprisingly affordable considering the cost or most coursework these days.) The most expensive part of it for people in the US, is that you have to travel to a national convention/classroom once a quarter and they alternate between left and right coasts. They promise when you complete year one, you'll be fit to run a fair sized corporation and when you complete year two you'll be fit to run a fair sized nation. We are not born entrepreneurs. That's why we love machines, they do what you tell them, they're predictable and you get what you asked for eve

Re:Similar Situation

[jomama717]

If I could mod you insightful I would, that all sounds about right. Never heard of the principal, but I can definitely see the truth in it.

Re:Similar Situation

[Mirvnillith]

4) Step down and re-join the developer ranks?

Re:Similar Situation

[oyenamit]

I completely empathize with you. There was a phase in my career when I would go to office everyday hoping that I would be able to spend a decent amount of time on actual coding work. But at the end of each day, I would realize that all my bandwidth has been consumed by managerial activities like people handling, metrics, excel reports and all that jazz. It was the most frustrating period of my 8 year long career.

But it all ended about 2 years ago when I made a fresh start by switching to a new project within the same organization. While joining, I categorically demanded that I should not be expected to perform managerial duties and should be solely responsible for design/architecture/coding related work. It was not easy to convince them at first. After a couple of months, they again tried to shove people management responsibilities down my throat. But I stood my ground and eventually that stubborness paid off. Today, my peers envy me for the amount of technical work that I get to do while they are still stuck in the rut trying to get rid of managerial responsibilities.

Re:Similar Situation

[CBravo]

And to complete the requirements for a good social skills training: theory and practice (including a good teacher)

Re:Similar Situation

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice you found it insightful—I didn't elaborate the details as we ACs tend to be overlooked in this fucking /. system.

Anyway, our society is built around the principle of "promoting" good work. If you successfully stay at you level of competence, this may look like an utter failure to others, as you never become the manager, but rather keep that same job as a programmer. And a new boss who doesn't know your achievements and who doesn't know that you want to stay at your position will draw his or her conclusions: You haven't been promoted in years (therefore, you can't be that good). Additionally, you earn way more than any newly hired random guy (therefore, you're too expensive).

This is rather frustrating ... good luck!

Re:Similar Situation

[AuMatar]

That sounds like my job. I'm 50% dev, 50% PM, and 20% people manager. There are weeks when I don't code at all, just respond to bugs with various forms of "by design", "won't fix", or comments on how to fix it and ship it off to some junior engineer. I try to fix one or two real bugs myself, but my days are so full of talking to PMs, managers, etc that I just don't have time.

I don't hate the role. There are times when the lack of coding annoys me, but there's other times when I actually enjoy my additional responsibilities (seeing a junior dev I mentored coming into his own) and the force multiplier it can bring (just being able to write down how to fix a problem I know off the bat and not having to go through all the trivial work of implementing the solution). But I don't have much of the management overhead other than dealing with my team- I don't do budgets, planning meetings, etc. And I'm not sure I would want them, so I've been hesitant to move up in the management side.

Re:Similar Situation

[scottyboy]

@ jomama717 I used to be in your situation too - very little time to code, and responsible for a team.

The single biggest improvement to my life at work as a technical team leader came about when I learned to better delegate. You have an entire team at your disposal! They are there to help you, as well as each other! It's all to easy to slip into 'control freak hero' mode, where you feel the need to do everything yourself because you don't feel anybody else can do it... but that will only ever perpetuate the situation and never give less experienced developers the chance to learn the ropes and be able to do what you can do. And if they don't get better at what they do, then they can never help take some of your workload off you.

In other words, If you don't feel you can delegate because you believe that others won't do the work to your standards, then you need to start fixing that, by making time to coach them through tasks and give feedback. If there are already developers on your team that you do trust to complete tasks to your standards, then you must delegate more immediately!

If you sub-divide and delegate a number of tasks between 4 or 5 developers (and yes, sometimes these are non-coding tasks, just like yours), then what might be a small effort or trivial interruption for them, can be a major load off your stack. It all adds up.

This would allow you more time to code up some solutions or example code as a technical lead (which are folded back into the team projects, again helping the team be more successful), or coach individual developers to bring them up to your required standards (if you don't feel you can delegate to them yet) - everybody wins; it's a virtuous circle.

If you feel you are struggling under the weight of non-coding tasks, again it's worth stressing that you can give out non-coding tasks too - say you need to write a document guideline for a web service API, there's nothing stopping you delegating that, to another developer, even if it's not coding work. Send a team member to a client meeting to gather feedback, and ask them to summarise the feedback for you. If it doesn't work out the first time, try and understand why and fix it.

If you aren't doing this already, then you should give that a go for six months. After that time, if it doesn't work for you, then...

Become an independent software contractor - where you will be paid to focus on code, because that is specifically what you will be hired to do. You get to work with a great variety of teams and codebases, learning much more than you would at a single company.

You can better set and negotiate your wage (within reason) and there's also no more performance reviews, unnecessary meetings (time is money), much less politics to endure as a 'non-employee', and at the end of a contract period you can give yourself a few weeks off to travel or recharge at home when, as you want it (Yes, you can give yourself 6 weeks annual leave to de-stress if you wish, and nobody can deny you that privilege).

Re:Similar Situation

[jomama717]

Good thoughts - thank you!

How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[RingDev]

Every developer hits that point eventually. And your choices aren't necesarily limited. Assuming you're ok with a pay cut.

There are plenty of opportunities to move in the direction or Project/IT management. That's the direction I've gone. 15 years of seeing poorly run projects and trying to get them back on track has left me pretty well practiced for taking the reigns.

Switching over to the networking side of the house isn't a bad option either. There's some learning involved, and you're not going to start out as a senior architect, but you can get work with the ancilary skills you've developed.

All industries can benefit from exceptionally bright solution developers. Look into 6-Sigma training and advance your career into process improvement.

And if all else fails, get out of the office. Find yourself a lumbar jack gig, maybe come camp counciling in the summer, park maintenance in the Everglades, etc....

-Rick

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[Aighearach]

There are plenty of opportunities to move in the direction or Project/IT management.

I knew somebody was going to recommend PHB.

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[Genda]

You missed the subtle suggestion of overtaking a kingdom. Yes, taking the "reigns", then installing your own puppet ministry. Its all going according to program! Bwuhahahahaahh!!!!

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[iggymanz]

"He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps, he likes to press wild flowers. He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in..... bars?! "

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[rubycodez]

Dear Sir,

I wish to complain on the strongest possible terms about the previous entry in this webpage about the lumberjack who wears womens' clothes. Some of my best friends are lumberjacks, and only a few of them are transvestites.

Yours faithfully,


Brigadier Sir Charles Arthur Strong (Mrs.)

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[gstoddart]

I knew somebody was going to recommend PHB.

You jest, but companies do require those skillsets.

I spend over a decade primarily as a coder. Since then I've been out in the consulting industry.

The last project I was working on made me really see the value of a good PM, and made me realize it's a skillset I need to flesh out a little. The majority of PMs I've see area hinderance to getting the job done ... but on an enterprise-wide roll out of a software upgrade, consisting of a lot of environments, and a lot of machines (and manpower involved), having a PM who could actually steer the project, get it done on time and on budget, and actually accomplish the goals ... well, let me say he was the first PM to truly gain my respect.

He knew that it was his job to clear the path so that me and the other people on the ground could get our job done, and he had a genuine plan as to how we'd build it. The end result was a successful project, happy clients, and a reference project that made the people who signed off on the money feel they'd received value for money. Literally, the best PM I've ever worked with.

By the time you're talking about projects with really huge scales and timelines on the order of a year or so ... the skillset is absolutely necessary. And if you have someone who has done this stuff for real, they tend to better understand what's involved (which is why the managers I've had who used to code are better than the ones who have only ever been managers).

Nobody says you need to be a PHB, but there's nothing wrong with competent people moving into management -- they can at least bring some experience and insight to the role.

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[Homr Zodyssey]

I agree that PMs are a vital part of any large project. However, I think it's not a logical step to go from programming to project management. They are two completely different skill-sets.

I'm may be just a little bitter, though. We just narrowly avoided failure on a project because a programmer tried to take up the PM role and failed miserably.

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[Pope]

And if all else fails, get out of the office. Find yourself a lumbar jack gig

Massage therapists are very much needed by geeks with lower back problems!

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[Grishnakh]

And if all else fails, get out of the office. Find yourself a lumbar jack gig,

Why would you want to use a jack on the lumbar region of your back?

maybe come camp counciling in the summer

If you want to get out of the office, why would you want to get involved in a council? Those usually meet indoors. Unless you're talking about some kind of council that goes camping together.

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[jawahar]

I think Project/ IT Management involves fair amount of marketing and business development.

Re:How do you feel about Lumberjacks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Six sigma is junk outside of the manufacturing environment. Take it from me, someone who works at the company who invented it. The biggest joke is 5S for the office environment.

Maybe a different thinking perspective

[pkinetics]

My overused response to a lot of questions is: Unask the question.

You've got a lot of technical and lead and coordination and probably management skills you've developed. So instead of asking where should you go next, ask what do you enjoy the most?

It may be that you do want the challenge of a lead architect position, in which case you might be looking for a startup company. I have no idea how people get to that level. Some are bottom up evolution, and some are top down revolution type people.

It may be that you want the joys of integration or release management, or something along those lines.

Basically, in a nutshell, ask yourself what makes you happiest and pursue that. Worst case scenario, you've wasted a few months. Best case scenario, you grow into a beautiful butterfly...

Re:Maybe a different thinking perspective

[PCM2]

Basically, in a nutshell, ask yourself what makes you happiest and pursue that. Worst case scenario, you've wasted a few months. Best case scenario, you grow into a beautiful butterfly...

I would add that the first time I quit a long-term, high-paying job, I enjoyed the time off for about two weeks. After that, I was white-knuckle stressed every day, wanting to get to work on a new job. I let it pass, though. I forced myself to ignore it, and by taking the time to really think about what I wanted to do next (or what I didn't want to do), I was eventually able to land myself a new job that I really enjoyed. If the submitter has been making good money so far and has the skills he describes, I'd say the best favor he can do himself is to realize that he's got some time and he doesn't need to jump into the first thing that presents itself. If you really want to enjoy your career, the best thing you can do is manage your career, rather than letting it manage you.

Re:Maybe a different thinking perspective

[rwv]

the joys of integration or release management

I do not believe that word means what you think it means.

Re:Maybe a different thinking perspective

[hkz]

But that's your answer to everything!

Take a job in QA

[CyberDong]

Most developers tend to think that QA is for button pressers and failed programmers. However, having a couple of good programmers on the QA team can dramatically improve a product. If you're really a good programmer then you can take requirements and write GOOD tests. Also, as a programmer, you can deconstruct what the dev team has built, and look for ways to make it fail (i.e. the cases they failed to consider). If you understand the nuances of the language, you can better anticipate the edge cases that a lot of non-technical QA folks would miss.

I've been down this path, and found that when a dev team knows there's someone who will call bullshit on their submissions (and can back it up), the code that's checked in tends to be better.

Re:Take a job in QA

[caywen]

The reason why most developers think of QA that way is because most QA is that way.

Re:Take a job in QA

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF are you smoking?

Going from development is a career limiting move; unless you go management.

Its also going to be a step down in salary for most software engineers with 10 years of dev experience.

Re:Take a job in QA

[recharged95]

It depends on what field you're QA-ing in. Most game devs (which I noticed are representative of the replies so far), say QA sucks... a game can pass QA@75% and still be shippable. In that world it's all about shipping and user base (e.g. I shipped 5million units of that game).

" I was lead developer for a platform that shipped tens of millions of units"

Sounds like you're already in the game industry... A ERP dev would have said "I developed a framework to process million tracations a day". A CRM person would have said "I developed software that mines 1TB of data every minute". A mobile app dev would say "I made apps for every mobile platform, Apple, Android, and WP7". A social networking dev would say, "I have a web system that supported 1 million users". Context is important.

QA in the gaming is at the low end of the respect-pole. It makes sense cause gaming is near the top of the software food chain: hardware, s/w frameworks, messaging, graphics, networking... all of those critical things need to be done before a game is developed.. and usually developed and QA-ed in a non-gaming company. The game environment exploits near all tech, it's the "AI" and design that interests people. Now if you look at other industries, automotive, aerospace, medical, other forms of entertainment (movies & physical SFXs), robotics, military, and such, QA is extremely critical and can be quite exciting. For example QA on rockets, or military weapons can be 100x exciting and challenging than game design.

Basically the point is choose your interest in industry, then cultivate your skillset, I guarantee you'll be happy and will find a way to make cash that is good enough for you. It sounds like you're in the mood to try a new industry....

Re:Take a job in QA

[TheGratefulNet]

I think you have valid points. however, I'm not sure its going to be as easy going 'back' to programming from qa. its kind of a one-way path.

in the past, I've done tech writing (and pilot/test teaching) and then moved on to 'real engineering' work (C coding, etc). I've considered going back to docs since its a nice break and I know I could bring a different perspective to the new group, but I fear that, too, would be a one-way trip in my career. not saying it would be impossible to go back, but it surely will be much harder than if you stayed in engineering all along.

it should not be that way, but it is and I've seen it in my own experience over the years. so, just be aware that much of the world does see a vertical placement in disciplines even though its not always fair to put one always above another.

one more thing needs to be said. consider the incoming group (the qa group) if you are a fulltime programmer/coder/engineer (whatever title you like). the hiring mgr will have doubts as to why you are 'stepping downward' and also, if he invests time in you, will you stay? are you jumping 'down' due to the down economy and not being able to find something else? the group will also be cautious about you. its just a fact. if you are good, you can make a place and they'll accept you, but it will be a proving test for a while, at first. any change of discipline triggers that.

each time you change jobs, it has an affect on your career path. its kind of obvious, but it bears repeating.

Re:Take a job in QA

[AuMatar]

Not in the games industry. The last job was mobile software. Eh I was going to be mysterious so I couldn't be traced back to my name, but screw it. I worked at a company called Swype making mobile phone keyboards. I was the lead developer for the Android platform, which included responsibility for most of the core (since Android was more than 95% of volume shipped).

Re:Take a job in QA

[recharged95]

Fair enough...
Having been in the mobile environment as well, you'll like being a lead architect. It's likely less programming--the challenges shift from coding to scalability issues, system design and such. Also what comes with being a good architect is excellent systems engineering skills. IMO, currently, Systems Engineering is the most underrated role in the tech field, period. One thing I've noticed is that critical people in big systems development are architects that know system/software engineering (not s/w programming), the position gets abused (e.g. average pay), but I think in the future it will rise to the top since most architects/sys/software engineers are great integrators, which will be needed in the future.

If you like distributed and scale challenges, an architect will be good experience to have--if you try an architect position in mobile it will open doors for cloud systems, databases, social networking, even robotics and such (trust me). Otherwise, messaging systems will be a good crossover to other fields (with a mobile background) if you want to just stay in programming/development.

That's my 0.02...

Good Luck on your decision.

Re:Take a job in QA

[LordLucless]

Nice. I'm sure there's quite a few slashdotters with your software installed.

Re:Take a job in QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely true. I work on a project that has existed for quite some time and a programmer who worked on one of our three systems 5+ years ago recently came back as a contractor to work in our QA area. He is feared (and respected) by our development team because as you put it, he knows the edge cases and and is able to deconstruct things and as such is far more thorough by his very nature then testers who never wrote production code or don't come from technical backgrounds.

convergence is where it's at

[xeno]

Why is it that decent, smart people get it in their heads that they can only do one thing? Years ago I had some bungee-manager give me a lecture on how I was spreading myself too thin, and successful people chose one thing and did it well. Nonsense. Successful savants maybe, but creative/skilled people who've been doing something well for a decade or two..? (I'd steadfastly refused to choose between the management and tech tracks at my company, and my good performance in solving/building/managing/selling didn't fit their vision of a career.)

Instead of trying to find a place for yourself as a good systems engineer who will be applied to good peoplems, go look for an enterprise or business sector that could use someone like you. One of the coolest things I did in recent years was to stop thinking as an IT security geek (please, not another PCI assessment or pentest clown show), and got a yearlong gig with the UN as a governance reform manager who happened to specialize in IT. Same crap, but new challenges and way more satisfying work.

Look at the org's business, not the tech. Some examples: I have a engineering/physics/software geek friend who signed on last year with a biotech firm that does fish tagging. Instead of looking up up up the tech hierarchy, he now runs a small operation with just a couple of guys, doing world-class work. Another friend topped out in engineering management at a certain large redmond org, and decided that where she was working was more important that the specific engineering challenges, so she's now working for a school system in Hawaii. Both are incidentally now working on improving their health and have time for music that they'd been puting off for years. Second life in the real world. Nice.

Re:convergence is where it's at

[Anonymous Coward]

This is about how I'd define "retirement".

Advancement where, then?

[Jake73]

I'm not clear on exactly where you'd like to advance. You don't want to commit to your employer (and only took a 6-month contract) and you don't want to burden yourself with the risks associated with success (by not wanting to start a company). I assume this also means you don't want to partner with someone.

So you want exactly what out of advancement? No more risk. No more commitment. No more responsibility. Just money? Play the lottery.

Re:Advancement where, then?

[Anonymous Coward]

"risks associated with success (by not wanting to start a company)"

So that is the only alternative in your view? Don't you need a good idea to go this route or you're just throwing away a lifetime's savings? You glibly toss the word "success" out there like it is a given.

How about suggesting looking at other industries related to vanilla programming, like bio informatics and such.

Re:Advancement where, then?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you are being a little harsh but you have identified the essential issue. A good technical guy needs a guy who is just as good in the business world to partner with. Or better a small group with strong skills in useful areas.

Been there several times. No other way works.

Re:Advancement where, then?

[AuMatar]

Maybe I'm trying to figure out what I should find in the next job? I'm not staying with the new company because I dislike the new owners. They actually bought the previous (and totally unrelated) startup I worked for as well.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you missed this part:

I've been a professional programmer for 10 years

so porn star is probably out of the question.

Unless perhaps you meant watching porn, but if you were paid for that I'd guess most nerds would already be multi-millionaires and not looking for career advice.

Go to work for Microsoft or Google

[eman1961]

See if you can run with the big dogs.

Re:Go to work for Microsoft or Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Find something that has bigger consequences for the quality of your work....

Take a job with a medical device company, air traffic control software, flight control systems.....you have bad day and a bug gets through people could die.

Try to get a job at the NSA, or if you are really good one of the think tanks or primary development contractors (I'm not talking about the beltway bandit contractors who provide warm bodies). You have a bad day and americans could die, you have a good day and non-americans will die ;-)

Team with a few good programmers.

[Anonymous Coward]

With the variety of in demand skills it might be wise to team up with one or two other programmers each with his own speciality to offer a wide range of capability to a prospective employer. Kinda hard to know and do everything.

Failing that, marry a programmer wife and job hunt as a team.

Lead Architech on a large system

[Anonymous Coward]

You should probably advance your programming career by being a lead architect on a large system. Something about your question draws me to this answer.

Slashdot is stagnated. Need to stop giving karma to ask slashdot submissions, so real questions needing real answers will get asked.

Try Consulting

[LDAPMAN]

Take your skills on the road and sell them to the highest bidder. Consulting has totally different challenges but takes advantage of your experience. I recommend you try it....and the money can be great.

Lead architect moves you out of programming ...

[gstoddart]

Almost anybody I've ever known who has moved onto being the lead architect isn't handling much (if any) code anymore. You're operating at a different level ... the overall design, the components that make it up, and working with the dev team to sort out problems. And, of course, working to define the requirements, use cases, and all of the other stuff like that.

Which is fine, but from what I've seen you can stay as an actual Programmer for so long, and then people expect you to move into architect/management roles to oversee the people who now do the coding. Your job becomes big-picture kind of stuff. Sometimes they look at someone of a certain age who is still writing code and wonder why you're still doing that.

If you're looking to solve new and interesting problems without feeling like you're doing the same thing over and over ... well, maybe what you want to do be doing it is working with a consulting company? The breadth and depth of your experience gets used for many different problems, it definitely changes often, and you get called in to help clients solve problems and develop solutions

Not saying consulting is for everyone, or that it's even the best choice out there ... but when I 'graduated' from a previous job as a programmer and got into consulting, I found I got to work on different projects, provide different insights into them, and then work towards the overall solution.

If you've been doing the kind of dev work you describe for long enough, there's a remarkable amount of soft skills you've likely picked up that are very marketable ... you don't need to know everything about everything, but knowing a lot about a lot of things actually makes you quite useful as a generalist skillset, with the ability to delve deeper when the need/occasion arises.

Re:Lead architect moves you out of programming ...

[kiwimate]

Almost anybody I've ever known who has moved onto being the lead architect isn't handling much (if any) code anymore. You're operating at a different level ... the overall design, the components that make it up, and working with the dev team to sort out problems. And, of course, working to define the requirements, use cases, and all of the other stuff like that.

Yep (although you might have a business analyst type to work on the use cases and so forth). But you're right about getting away from the programming. I have a close colleague who's doing exactly this right now. He's been a programmer for, well, not sure, but much longer than 10 years, probably more like 25 or 30. He decided he wanted to move into an architect position. It took him a while to get used to defining work for other programmers to do and not do it himself, but he's gotten better now.

He loves it. Fresh lease on (professional) life for him. It's been a big challenge, and continues to be challenging, but in exactly the way he wanted, and he couldn't be happier that he made the move.

Doesn't mean everyone will find it as much fun, especially if your passion is for coding.

If you want to do something very different, consider something like a business solutions architect role.

Re:Lead architect moves you out of programming ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost anybody I've ever known who has moved onto being the lead architect isn't handling much (if any) code anymore.

One of my most respected colleagues carved out the role of chief architect / portfolio architect for themselves (which had not previously existed in the company). They say explicitly they would like to keep their hand in and spend an appreciable amount (I'd guess ~ 20-30%) of their working time coding.

One of the ideas behind a role like that is to have a person who doesn't just look at their own project but has an overview about what's going on (starting with component re-use, and continuing up to portfolio design).

Depending on the person fulfilling a role like that, it may have a major (positive) impact on a company / department, but the need for the role often is not seen by management - so finding a job posting on this topic might be a bit hard.

Build something that matters

[Anonymous Coward]

It sounds like you're focusing a lot on what your role in the company is, and not on what that company is trying to build / achieve. If your role is focused on solving problems then every problem is different... and the problems your company is trying to solve don't challenge you then you're not in a very interesting / important company. On the other hand, if you're just following directions... writing code to meet the spec... then I could see that getting old quick.

Re:Build something that matters

[AuMatar]

I agree, that definitely helps. My current job has been cool in that respect- I've heard people talking about my software on the bus, in lines at stores, etc. It's made it a lot more fun to work on.

Switch fields in programming

[dsvick]

You could try a different branch of programming .... If you do standalone apps right now you could move into web programming or database programming or even mobile apps.

Change up the problem domain, or methods

[Gribflex]

Given the restrictions that you have (keep doing what you're doing, but more advanced) then I would suggest one of two things.

[1] Change to a completely new set of problems. If you've been working in business software, change to games. In this way you will still be doing dev, but the kinds of problems that you are trying to solve will be completely different, which will lead to new challenges.

[2] Try changing up the 'how' of what you're doing. For example, look for a team that's using scrum methodology, or test-driven-development. Alternately, new tools, programming languages, platforms (Mostly focussing on windows? Go mac/mobile/unix/web.). Even just somewhere with a vastly different release cycle could be interesting - by last employer measured their dev cycles in years; my current employer in weeks. If you put the focus on the skills, instead of the work, it can be really rewarding. See Software Craftsman movement for related inspiration in this direction.

[3] Move. I'm on my third country now, and I can tell you that doing the same thing in a different country totally changes the game. French engineers do not think the same way as Canadian engineers. So much of our work is about problem solving, and being able to transform real world problems into software. It's been very cool to working through a problem with someone with a totally different world view.

To use an analogy: You are a great French chef; you've worked in a wide range of sit down restaurants from very small to very large. And you've always felt successful, but you now feel you're only option is to start your own business. I'm recommending that you [1] go work at a japanese restaurant, [2] try a catering company or 'fast food', or [3] try working in Vietnam.

20 years C programming dude here..

[Anonymous Coward]

I have written C code for 20 years and know (too) many other languages, i don't care to mention, too...

("too many" because I was a Java-buzz-victim too... "compile once, run anywhere" lol.. bullshit)

I find my companies projects increasingly boring.. and secretly tinker on my own open source projects during work time because they are more appealing.. I am interested in N-grams and how to turn that into something close to an AI and such... it also involves data mining and such... cool stuff...

I am seriously thinking about living from social welfare and focusing on my own projects 100%... I lived from social welfare before and have learned how to get by and have internet with so little money...

Really, work is stupid.. I am sick and tired of wasting my precious time with other peoples projects..

what motivates you...?

[bodland]

Money...
Cleverness...
Sloth...
Babes...
Fame...
Only on person had it all....Bill Murray...
Seriously, if you have money in the bank or the ability to put money in the bank do that for a year or two...then chuck it all, and do something completely out of character...like go volunteer some place...go sailing, visit all the baseball parks in one season, take up something inherently selfish for a few years and enjoy the world and it's people...meet people, love and enjoy the beauty of the world. When you have run out of money go back to work and you will be surprised how motivated you will be. Motivated to fill the bank again so you go off on another adventure...life is too short to be a code monkey or a slave to your customers...or strapped to someone's insane project and crappy software...go now.

Are yoiu kidding?

[wbr1]

The answer was just posted yesterday!

Right here...

Sarcasm is my closet friend.

Re:Porn

[rubycodez]

why? there's always certain genres like fat twink

is money an object?

[roman_mir]

if you can survive without a paycheck for a couple of years, why not use the time to consult for some business that may be of interest to you at a low enough rate that they won't mind having you around, present yourself as a business analyst/applications architect and offer them to spend time on their business problems and attempt to come up with some solutions to help them?

After all, unless you are going to do theoretical stuff in computing, the only other choice is to do applied computing. If you are looking for a challenge and not necessarily security or pay-check, then looking at something that you never thought you'd be involved with and then coming up with ways to be useful there by creating some form of automation/solution may give you the challenge you are looking for and it also can translate into a future model for you to earn some money while doing more of this risky stuff that's not boring.

explore a new area?

[Surt]

Are you a database expert?
How about integration?
Performance and scalability?
Web? (It's been sooo many years now and there still isn't a good interactive web library ... as a result of which basically every website sucks compared to what windows programs could do a decade before, so if you feel like a challenge ...)

Tips for promotion in programming

[cashman73]

For promotion as a programmer, you should follow the Peter Gibbons example. Come in to work every day about 15 minute late,. . . use the side door so Lumbergh can't see you,. . . ;-) Then, just space out at your desk for awhile. But look like you're working. Do that for about an hour after lunch, too. You need to try and keep the actual work that you do down to about 15 minutes of real, actual work, per week. Also, never put cover sheets on your TPS reports.

Reformulate your question

[eulernet]

I propose 2 methods to reformulate your question:

1) root-cause analysis: take your original question, and ask why you want that. Find 3 to 5 answers.
Reapply the process to your answers: why do you want that ?
Answers that have no parent are root causes.
When there are no more answers, take a look at all the root causes, and what you are searching should be obvious !

2) domain analysis: enumerate all your activities in development.
For example: coding, debugging, managing, planning, etc...
Now, put a score on every activity, 0=it sucks, 10=it's great.
When you finished the scoring, take the 3 biggest scores, and imagine what job could fit these 3 activities without the other activities.
That is your dream job !

If you still don't know, read this:
http://www.inspirationandchai.com/Regrets-of-the-Dying.html

The best thing to do

[caywen]

Take some time off and reflect. Slashdot isn't going to provide you with any wisdom for something that is a function of you and your feelings.

Re:The best thing to do

[TeknoHog]

Take some time off and reflect. Slashdot isn't going to provide you with any wisdom for something that is a function of you and your feelings.

What about Mirrordot?

(No, seriously, the parent is fucking insightful.)

Re:The best thing to do

[AuMatar]

Good point. And my current schedule reflects this- my 6 month bonus is going to send me to Europe for a few months. What I wanted here was more to get opinions, see what others in this situation have done.

IT is a saturated market.

[Anonymous Coward]

While you say you're not interested in starting own company, why is that?

I can give a few reasons why you wouldn't want to.

For one software is extremely saturated - talent, businesses, products - you name it.

Sales. Starting a business is easy. Watch: There I just started a business. Here I'll start another one. Bam! Two businesses in as many seconds.

Sales. It's extremely difficult as someone who has been behind a computer all his career to get the sales. If you think it''s just a matter of cold calling, walking into a building, or placing an ad in CIO magazine; you will be quickly disillusioned.

You will be competing with established businesses. A couple of years ago, folks were suggesting that one should get into the web page and marketing business because the companies they were working for were experiencing increasing sales. Of course they were. Try walking in as a startup and convincing someone that they should drop the guy that they have been doing business with for the last several years (and most likely pleased with them) and hire you. Try, just try to convince them. Do it cheaper? Never compete on price because there's always someone who'll do it cheaper. Anytime on RAC will show one that.

Your own portfolio? It's a start - if you can get a chance to actually show someone who has the power to hire and pay you. And that's assuming your design and coding skills are so awesome that the potential client will fall in love with you. There aren't too many people like that in the World. .

It's much more than hard work. If all it took was hard work, everyone would be successful in their business. And here's the killer: when you're in business for yourself, you will spend most of your time getting work. So you will not only have to meet your deadline for your project, but work in getting sales - going out to networking events, shows, taking "decision makers" out to lunch.

Then there's the collections. Do you think at the end of 30 days, said company is just going send a check right over? Pfft.

Industry: IT is a saturated industry. If your business has anything to do web design, custom software development, support, or anything sun of the mill like that - good luck! Folks like that are a dime a dozen. And they're all not screw ups.

Re:IT is a saturated market.

[Homr Zodyssey]

This varies by geography. In my town, we can't find enough developers. Headhunters are trying to contact me daily. My last three clients were all hungry for new programmers.

And no, people who actually do the work well are not a dime a dozen. H1b, offshore and otherwise useless wannabes are.

Re:IT is a saturated market.

[Anrego]

Anytime on RAC will show one that.

Oh man.. nailed that one on the head.

I remember back when RAC was ok-ish. You'd get not what you were worth, but enough that it was worth it for a student (and beat flipping burgers).

Then you started seeing the insanely low bids. I had a great rating on the site.. so I could still get _some_ business for a decent rate.. but when you bid $500 and someone bids $10 (not hyperbole.. that happened a lot) .. you are pretty much screwed.

And of course the $10 guy did really shitty work, so all the legit buyers left and the site became a slave labour clearing house for people needing "100 articles for my ad riddled new website" or "1000 blog comments pushing my scam".

And that was years ago.. I don't even want to think about what it has devolved to now (assuming it is even still around).

Re:IT is a saturated market.

[maple_shaft]

You are right that the market is saturated but you are terribly wrong that it is not a worthwhile business model. It all comes down to the insanely low financial barriers to entry.

With web development tools and frameworks coming to a point where interactive web applications can be built and go live in less than 6 months, sometimes with only one developer, as well as the huge variety of open source software in existence, it has never cost less to startup a business.

The potential rewards however are staggering because if you are lucky you can earn hundreds of times your initial investment. If I start up 8 different software companies and 7 of them fail, it doesn't matter if one of them ends up making 20x what I put into it. Compare that to the enormous financial investment and similar risk of failure in starting up a car company.

Software makes even more sense if you have connections with important people because despite what people think, the software making money out there right now is not always on their A game. More than likely some clever golf-course sales with people at the CEO's country club got them that million dollar contract. If you undercut them on price, it won't matter but if you blow them away in quality you will be surprised how quickly you will get noticed.

Re:IT is a saturated market.

[Anonymous Coward]

My experience with RAC mirrors Anregos up to and including the $500/$10 bid ratio. There are also cut and paste saturation bids where people bid on everything (generally the first 20 bids for every job), jobs that appear to be for malicious software (silent installers are a favourite) and bid ceilings that are impossible to met, at least on western pay scales.

Re:IT is a saturated market.

[Anonymous Coward]

This. I've been there done that and am back in corporate America where I get benefits, retirement, salary and some semblance of stability.

Do it again

[Anonymous Coward]

Join a startup, build their product to stardom. Do it all again.

Maybe the first time around you just got lucky.

Put your resume on job boards

[GWBasic]

Someone with your skillset is in high demand. It's very easy to just cast an uber-wide net, listen to job after job, and then decide where you want to focus.

Put your resume on job boards and then take your pick. In addition to things like Monster, Dice, look for smaller boards that cater to niches that you might be interested in. On your resume, state that you're looking for either a full-time job or a few short contracts until you find the right position. Keep casting as wide of a net as possible until you figure out what your interest is, and then narrow your search.

When recruiters call you, without sounding cocky, politely state that you know that you're in demand and that you're still trying to focus your career search. Hang up on anyone who tries to negotiate salary or contract rate in the first call. Do not go to any recruitment agency's offices in-person, especially if they come across as high-pressure.

Waaaay too short sighted...

[billybob_jcv]

10 years? Yeah - you're the cock of the walk, almost at the peak of your programming career. Now, picture yourself at 50 years old. Look around your office. Do you see any 50 year old programmers? If you do, he's probably the surly little troll sitting in the corner working on some old legacy code that no one else in the office will touch.

You need to start planning for what you will do when you aren't programming any more. Development manager? Project manager? Enterprise Architect is cool - but how many of those are in a typical company - and many companies don't have that role at all. Contrary to what most career books will tell you, for the vast majority of companies, there *is* a ceiling to the technical path. To get to the Director or VP level you will need much more than tech skills. I think it's better to start learning about project & people management now than 20 years from now when you are being bypassed by younger folks who have taken the time to learn more than code.

Blown out of the water

[Anonymous Coward]

You're always thinking about your next job, which means you tend to be reluctant to turn down paying work. These two factors make it very easy to fall into a rut.

And get blown out of the water.

Yes! Been there!

In the mid to late 90s, I did C++ middleware and UIs for RDMs on servers and mainframes. That's all I was hired for and never got the opportunity to do anything else - no matter how hard I pursued those jobs. Then Java and the internet took off and work disappeared. Even though I took Java classes until I was blue in the face and wrote code on the side, I was forever dubbed "that C++ middleware guy".

Maintenance? I don't think anything I wrote is in production anymore. I think it was all replaced with Java Beans and a few other products.

Tried getting other work in embedded systems and other things and it never came to pass.

Once you're pigeon holed, it seems impossible to get out. I wish I never contracted. The money was awesome for a couple of years, though and I can say that I used to make six figures back when it meant something.

Same Boat

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm 15 years in, professional full-time and I managed to get the lead on a pretty decently sized system in 2005. It was a 3 person team and a 3 year, 2 phase rollout. The company was a software vendor and it was a major surgical documentation system that integrated with our flagship product, and multiple third party inventory control systems. I was responsible for the entire project, soup to nuts.

I did the the project plan and estimation, the hiring of the other two developers, the allocation of tasks based on ability, the database design, the ORM, the overall architecture of the app, handling any personnel issues, and a bunch of the coding. I worked with QA during the testing phase, and the sales / trainers to make sure they knew what they were doing. I worked with the documentation people to make sure it was right and they knew what to write. I pulled requirements from the BA who was an expert at domain knowledge of how such a system should work, but didn't know much about computers. I worked with our beta clients to make sure their needs were met. We made it on time and on budget. It was all aspects of the SDLC and I was in charge of every facet. It was a lot of work, but very fulfilling.

It allowed me to check that box off of my accomplishments: full responsibility for a major system that was sold to other companies. We acquired another company that sort of did the same thing for way to much money, and they ended up shelving it 2 weeks before the user's group that was to announce it to the public to justify the overpriced acquisition. That was kinda a kick in the balls, but it was still worth it. I would liked to have seen it public though.

Now I'm writing iPhone apps on the side and designing and building complex automation engines with another company. That's pretty fun too, but I'd really like the iPhone apps to take off so I could just do that and live off it.

Also, if you get a chance and you haven't done so, work for a shrink-wrap software company, preferably small (not like MS). It's a lot different from internal IT. They're few and far between these days because everyone wants everything in a browser.

Side rant: I don't understand why someone would call themselves an architect when they aren't getting dirty implementing their own designs.

Speech/Image/Signal Processing, BioInformatics, AI

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, if you are looking for new challenges IN PROGRAMMING because you love it and don't want to go to the dark side of management/marketing, I think that's a great thing.

Try considering branching out into the realm of the computer taking input from the larger world, better comprehending the world it finds itself in, or manipulating somehow the real world. Look at the challenges of Speech Processing, Image Processing, BioInformatics and Artificial Intelligence. All fields require you beginning with a solid understanding of programming and then learning something else and then putting the two together. Too often these challenges get attempted by a bunch of grad students operating like code monkeys to solve some problem in a lab that would be overwhelming to make work in any kind of more general setting -- but a true programmer knows how to refactor the challenge several times over and can write the gorilla programs that write the monkey programs to write the final program.

All those code snippets and algorithms you have in your toolbox by now become the starting point for something else much cooler and tangible to measure / demonstrate / take pride in than just units shipped until Mitt Romney comes to buy out your next company.

Train yourself first

[Brain-Fu]

If you are moving to an enterprise architect role, read up on modern industry practices/tools first. Don't assume that your development experience alone qualifies you as an EA. The experience is an absolute prerequesite, but it is not enough. The mistakes you can make as an EA can cause a lot of pain to a lot of people for a long time, so those lessons are ones you really can't afford to learn the hard way.

Also, if you are looking for something different, you could also consider staying as a regular developer but target an entirely different domain. Have you done hardware controllers? If so, interested in trying desktop apps or web apps instead? Just food for thought.

Re:Train yourself first

[AuMatar]

I've had a pretty varied career so far. My first job was firmware, I did that for 4 and a half years. I did back end web services for 2 and a half . I did porting to proprietary OSes for two. I've now done Android development for 2 more. I did some short contract stints in between doing odds and ends, the longest one programming for a really bad ERP system.

Another change in domain (or going back to one I haven't done in a while) would definitely be a possibility. It would make it seem less of a move sideways. I'm definitely keeping my options open on that front.

Change focus area (security, embedded, etc)

[Anonymous Coward]

Take what you've known and are good at and branch into a something slightly different.

Focus on security and testing applications for vulns or working to exploit them
Move from consumer to industrial or embedded side of things
Look for a teaching job
Find an industry you are about (biometrics, green energy, NGO, etc) and do the job to help advance them instead of just programing for a job

And yes, if you can afford it, take 6 mo off. Research, read, relax, etc. You can bill it as a sabbatical on your resume as long as you can show some output from it.

Truth of the matter

[cshark]

If you want to advance, don't become especially good at anything technical. Have problems, make stupid mistakes. If you're a really good programmer under 40, it's a dead end job.

What career advancement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right out of graduate school twenty years ago I started as a senior software engineer. That's still my title, and I suppose I will retire a senior software engineer. After a couple of brief stints in management, I noticed that that is not where I can contribute best.

The HR people keep lecturing on "career advancement" opportunities as though everybody hated their job or were unfit for it. It just may be that you are lucky enough to be where you belong.

As for the challenges not changing, it is a bit depressing that the advances in the field are excruciatingly slow. You end up confronting problems in every company that were solved in the 80's or before. I guess there are limits to the average engineer's problem solving skills. One nice new thing is the general acceptance of garbage collection. One of the nasty newish habits I'm hoping the industry will grow out of is the ubiquity of threads as general-purpose context containers.

You don't...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like they say about homelessness: if you haven't solved the problem within 3 days, the chance that the problem will last months is enormous.

In this case, if you haven't had the combined lust for (80%) power and (20%) knowledge from a young age and exercised it as naturally as breathing air, consuming food or ejaculating semen, your prospects are much worse. A failed phenotype, a darwinian dead-end; ancient patterns of DNA circling around and around mindlessly, with not two shits given until they were evolved to be given by a tiny few of the very gene vessels that we are.

Have you thought about becoming a business analyst

[SaleNowOn]

I had been programming for around ten years and was looking for a new challenge, I initially did the logical thing and became a team leader, and like a lot of the posters here I found that you get battered by the management above and the programmers below, it can be really rewarding but it's really hard work and I didn't want to spend my career doing that job. I looked at technical lead and at project management but they didn't feel quite right.

Then by chance I was ask to lead a large tender (my boss was off at the time and no-one else had the skill set). I had to come up with a solution for the prospective customer that not only fitted the requirements but was better than the competitions and write the technical sales documentation and lead the presentations. It was a terrifying couple of weeks. But also an amazing adrenalin rush and from that I ended up becoming a business analyst. I don't programme any more but I get to design the U.I. and all the functional requirements of the software so that satisfies my creative side, and even more strangely the sales side is really great, becuase like a lot of the posters here, you really do know what you are talking about right down to the nuts and bolts of the product. (I'll always have a director with me to handle the commercial side, my job is to get the customers tech boys onside).

I would have never of thought of it as a career move until I got thrown in the deep end, but I get the same satisfaction with work as I did when I was a programmer and I enjoy my role, which is pretty much what you want out of life.

Tech Meetups

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm writing this with the assumption that you may want to go to a small stage startup, since it sounds like you are in the process of leaving one.

Here in Boulder and around the country, there are monthly tech meetups where a lot of the tech folks get together to discuss the latest happenings in the area. At the start of the one here, there is time to broadcast your verbal resume and announce that you're open to new opportunities. There is also the time for companies to advertise their openings as well. After attending for several sessions, you'll a) run into a bunch of friends who will know of some opportunities and b) you'll see what is happening locally. One of the benefits of the Boulder meetup is that Brad Feld, one of the top VC's in the country, will sometimes give his opinion on the state of investing and where he sees things moving.

I guess to summarize, get out there and see what is happening. Something will interest you, it is just a matter of figuring out what it is.

pay is not terrible, with a PhD

[Anonymous Coward]

The pay is somewhat lower than industry, but not obscenely lower, if you're a tenure-track prof; at a mid-tier uni, in a normal city, you can probably make 80-100K (which is way above the median in my city for a *technical* guy; of course, you can make much more by becoming a PHB :)

don't bother

[TheGratefulNet]

find a new career.

seriously, if you are in the west, you will be outsourced. maybe not in 5 yrs but certainly in 10. I'd bet money on it.

this is a race to the bottom. I've invested 30+ years in engineering (I'm 50ish now) and I see this. only kids and low paying wages will be in software, in the US, soon enough. if you can do the job without being local, it WILL be outsourced.

I hate to rain on your parade (its mine, too, btw) but this is the fact of our 'work force' and you'll never get anywhere doing software in the US. very few will make it big and most will just be a few paychecks away from being homeless.

again, I hate sound so negative but my years have given me some wisdom. I see the writing on the wall. it really is a race to the bottom. our country does not value us, our employers don't and we're expendable. we're a 'cost' to them.

either start your own thing or change fields. software in the US is done-for. pointy hairs have spoken and they run things, not us grunts.

Re:don't bother

[PJ6]

seriously, if you are in the west, you will be outsourced. maybe not in 5 yrs but certainly in 10. I'd bet money on it.

Sorry, but I really don't see evidence of that myself. Everywhere I've been, and everyone I've talked to in the last 5 years in software, it's all the same refrain - outsourcing is a disaster, avoid it at all costs. Yes it's OK for some things related to development, but not the coding itself.

Also, at least in my area, I see demand for developers starting to boom again. I've been getting regular headhunter calls since the middle of last year. Maybe you're living in an economically depressed (tech-wise) area, or could benefit by changing technologies or attitude.

I do agree, though, that working in normal software employment as a grunt is usually a shit job, mostly because of endemic poor management practice in the industry. Nothing beats being your own boss.

Re:don't bother

[Required Snark]

Age discrimination is a fact of life in software. The offshoring and 1Hb are just making it easier. Your two long term options are move into management or start your own business. As soon as you are older then your managers they will start getting uncomfortable. You make them think about their future, and if they have any sense it will scare them shitless. Until recently going into academia was an option, but "no new taxes" == "no academic career", so you are also screwed there.

The best option: don't get old.

Re:don't bother

[mdf356]

only kids and low paying wages will be in software, in the US, soon enough

Well, I can't speak t your experience, but at the formerly-small company I work for (we were acquired a year ago and have grown headcount by at least 50% in the last year, and have budget for 60% more growth on the team I'm on) not only is it not a race to the bottom, but there's lots of jobs.

It's true that when I started, at 33, I was one of the older devs. As the company grows, we're hiring more college kids than older people, still. That has nothing to do with anything but the people who are applying -- I haven't seen a lot of resumes from older workers. But we don't look at age at all, we look at talent. Definitely there's been some age 50+ hired for our east-coast branch.

The "pointy-hairs" in the company I work for are former engineers, who in some cases realized they're not great at writing software and moved into management. The first line managers are expected to be technical contributors. The company founder / CEO was an engineer.

And to the point of outsourcing: it's a temporary thing. The problem is quality -- if you are a foreigner who can write software as well as anyone else, you will not continue accepting less money for the same work for long. The only people who cost less are the ones who don't do as good of a job.

I disagree.

[Anonymous Coward]

This varies by geography. In my town, we can't find enough developers. Headhunters are trying to contact me daily. My last three clients were all hungry for new programmers.

Lot's of people post things like that but never post where they are or what their requirements are.

How about posting where you are and maybe some talented folks would actually move there. Here in Metro Atlanta, there are quite a few out of work folks who need jobs and may be able to relocate.

And no, people who actually do the work well are not a dime a dozen. H1b, offshore and otherwise useless wannabes are.

In the years I was in the business, it amazed me how one person's screw up was another person's competent person or even genius. And after seeing some of the code of one "screw up", I think some folks are wrongfully labeled that for whatever reason.

When I was in the business, I got my work done on time, commented and it worked. Was I a super genius that was able knock out super genius code? Nope. I was told that I was good by my employers - one colleague even called some of my work "genius" - it was an UI that was incredibly intuitive to the users: I guess it takes a "stupid" person to know how to talk to other "stupid" people.

After a long time out of work, someone finally gave me feedback. The reason he thought I wasn't any good was because I was unemployed. If I were any good, I'd have a job - this was in 2002 when a bunch of us were out here in Atlanta, GA.

Of course as time went on, that label became reality. It's kind of hard to work on systems and technologies that only large companies can afford on your own time in your own home while unemployed.

I really think you're having a hard time getting people is because you and the rest of the industry made that reality.

Every other industry that demands highly trained and skilled workers doesn't have a problem getting people. Because if they can't - like CAT did when they needed welders - they created a training program.

You know about those millions and millions of lines of COBOL code that the big Hartford insurers use? They have no problem getting people; even though very few schools teach COBOL and their programmers are retiring left and right.

How do they do it?

Training programs. And they produce some damn fine people, I might add. Of course, there is some snobbery with regards to training too. Some of those Hartford Insurance company programmers have "only" BAs and some have no degree; which makes them unqualified to many firms that require their programmers have BSEE or BSCS or a BS in a physical science. I'm sure those firms are also bemoaning how they can't get qualified people and how there are too many wannabes.

Re:I disagree.

[Anonymous Coward]

Lot's of people post things like that but never post where they are or what their requirements are.

I'm in San Francisco, Ca. My company has hired 10 new developers in the past quarter and is looking to hire at least 20 developers in the next year. And it will likely be at least 21 since I was recently contacted by a previous boss about an opportunity that I'm probably going to take. He's hiring at least 10 developers in the next year too. The pay for all these positions will be at least $80k and more often than not more than $100k.

As far as the requirements go, it's primarily Java development roles, but a couple of those jobs are DBA/SysAdmin roles too. Specifically, we've been having a hell of a time finding someone with both MySQL and BigData (Hadoop/NoSQL) experience.

There may not be jobs in your area that require your specialty. But there are lots of jobs available if you're willing to move and/or willing to train up on other technologies.

Re:I disagree.

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy crap 80k in the bay area.... I wonder why you can't find anybody other than those fresh out of school.

Who the fuck fresh out of school (other than the exceptional autodidacts) has any meaningful experience with "BigData"... in my part of the country someone like what you want would be getting offers of at least $100k, with cost of living expenses a tiny fraction of the bay area.

May be....

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe work as an independent contractor? You've gotta switch project often, pick on projects to work, higher level of accountability, exposure to different industry domain, but not as much marketing/accounting as owning a business. Obviously you still need to look for new contracts all the time, and more riskier than employee.

Application Architect first

[Anonymous Coward]

Lead developer then
Application Architect then
Solution Designer then
Technical Architect then
Enterprise Architect then
Chief Architect then
CIO

Come on folks. Learn the lingo.

I say this as a CIO who followed the path above.

Re:Application Architect first

[rwven]

I would certainly hate to be a part of an organization that has that many steps between "Lead Developer" and "Enterprise Architect."

I've typically seen:

Lead Developer
Application Architect
Enterprise Architect

I've also never (aside from you, apparently) seen Enterprise Architect or * Developer anywhere in the list of prerequisites for "CIO." Every CIO I've ever seen has mostly basic technical skills, lots of business skills, and generally strong knowledge of the tech industry around which the company centers.

Good question

[guided_by_coffee]

I am faced with a similar problem myself. So recently I decided to remain at my current company (the grass is always greener... anyways), and to make my job interesting by spending a little time each week on my own pursuits: like learning new tech to improve our product suite, creating nice dev tools to help make the day-to-day tasks a little easier, and trying out (in prototypes) new features for our products. These things keep me interested in my career position, and I have to believe they will actually help me advance in my career. To answer your question, I would look for in the next hypothetical position: try finding projects in a new problem domain / industry, or something that will require you to learn new tech. In your 10 short years, you certainly haven't covered every domain / industry / coding tech, and those things are constantly changing anyways, change is always good ;-)

Hard to start at that level

[durdur]

The problem with switching companies is that you will have to prove your skills and worth all over again. And most of them will slot you into at best a middling job grade at first (not architect level) unless you already have an industry-wide reputation.

Linus Trovald's Lesson on Software Development:

[Anonymous Coward]

1. The first thing is thinking that you can throw things out there and ask people to help. If you start off with some ‘kumba-ya feeling’ where you think people from all the world are going to come together to make a better world by working together on your project, you probably won't be going very far.

2. The other thing—and it's kind of related—that people seem to get wrong is to think that the code they write is what matters. Way too many projects seem to think that the code is more important than the user, and they break things left and right, and they don't apologize for it, because they feel that they are ‘fixing’ the code and doing the right thing.

Do something useful: free sotware + activism

[anarresti]

Challenges? There are many challenges out there, but maybe not in the typical businesses. I would personally advise you to look first at the project that would motivate the most and only later about ways of gaining money doing such. There are a few zillions of free software projects where you would "work for someone else", but together with a community of other motivated developers, facing challenges, solving problems and finding creative solutions. Moreover, with the last boom of the Occupy movement (and the revolutions against dictators in the Arab world), there are many more interesting projects with amazing challenges out there. My bet is that building decentralized tools for activists wraps the next big technical challenges (personally I'm helping in comunes.org). Helping to solve them is not only very self-satisfying, but is being certainly useful for our societies. Moreover, creative solutions might be game-changers in many fields.

Try SW Architecture

[Anonymous Coward]

Architecting complex systems is a challenging and in demand skill set. If you are as competent as you claim you are a natural next step would be to become an overall systems architect/designer. Someone who conceptualizes the overall system.

Try systems work

[mdf356]

I've also been writing software professionally for a little over 10 years. I've worked on multiple projects with IBM, and now I work for a small division of EMC (the start-up was acquired). In my experience there's lots to do and learn still. The world of systems programming is never-ending -- there's more restrictions on how and what you can do, and that increases the challenge. Coding in user-space has some challenges, but when a language will do a lot of things for you; when you can rely on the OS to clean up after your mistakes, memory leaks, leaked file descriptors, etc., it's just a little boring to me. No one needs a perfectionist writing their user-space code.

That is the path I took

[Anonymous Coward]

It took me a while but I now realize that while coding is fun, coding for a living is a shit job and in the past ten years the Australian development industry has morphed into a cottage industry with all the larger players now out sourcing overseas. I now remove venomous snakes from peoples houses and believe me, it is much more relaxing than dealing with customers and PHB. My clients are invariably grateful and pay up before I start.

Quant Hedge Fund

[Anonymous Coward]

Take the next step, become a quant. You might be able to retire early...and not want to!

Business Analyst, Project Manager, NoSQL Admin...

[feuertod]

Any of the above could work...but it depends how you define the "same challenges" you'd like to avoid.