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Microsoft 'Trustworthy Computing' Turns 10

gManZboy writes "Bill Gates fired off his famous Trustworthy Computing memo to Microsoft employees on Jan. 15, 2002, amid a series of high-profile attacks on Windows computers and browsers in the form of worms and viruses like Code Red and 'Anna Kournikova.' The onslaught forced Gates to declare a security emergency within Microsoft, and halt production while the company's 8,500 software engineers sifted through millions of lines of source code to identify and fix vulnerabilities. The hiatus cost Microsoft $100 million. Today, the stakes are much higher. 'TWC Next' will include a focus on cloud services such as Azure, the company says."

185 comments

  1. Microsoft Succeeded by DavidSell · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Windows is far more secure now. Nowadays malware mostly comes either via third party programs like Flash and PDF reader or via social engineering - like those sites which claim you have a virus and need to install this program or you need to install codec. Windows itself is very secure.

    Interestingly it was also one of the reasons why people initially hated Vista. The security model of Windows changed so much that many legacy apps stopped working and driver needed to be updated. Windows users also weren't adjusted to having to work under non-admin account. That was the reason most people had issues with Vista, and by the time Windows 7 came out, application and hardware vendors had fixed their issues. Windows 7 is a very good OS, actually so good that Microsoft really needs to step up their game in windows 8 so that W7 won't become the new XP.

    In my opinion Microsoft has really fixed their issues with security. Internet Explorer 9 is one of the most secure browsers around. It is currently sharing the first position with Chrome. IE9 has sandboxing, JIT hardening and other ways to make vulnerable plug-ins like Flash and PDF reader have less access to the system. Firefox is currently lacking any of these, so if you use Firefox and you are being hit with Flash or PDF vulnerability, your changes of being infected are much larger than when using Chrome or IE9.

    Given that Apple is using Microsoft's Azure cloud services for their iCloud platform, I have no doubt that they can both secure the platform and develop good software to developers that can help developing secure software. After the security disaster at Microsoft tens years ago, they have added security features to both their internal tools, but also to the likes of Visual Studio. VS nowadays has many features that can help prevent the most usual security problems. Since Visual Studio is integrated with Azure, many developers will be using it and also having the advantage of those features.

    Cheers,
    David E. Sell

    1. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      WOW,

      you posted that entire comment in under 1 minute. You sir win an internet.

    2. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      I stagnated in your mom.

    3. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For the past decade, Microsoft has been where it is now: equal or worse. Internet Explorer shares the browser market with Chrome. Windows 7 shares the desktop market with XP and OS X. XBox shares the console market with PS3 and Wii.

      Being as good as your competitors means that when something bad does happen, like a new zero-day exploit in the wild that makes the headlines, the company drops back to second place. Regardless of its current improved security, Microsoft will never regain lost reputation until they produce a series of spectacular products that are consistently better than any competitor. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    4. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Since this is Slashdot, I expect the above well-written post to be marked flamebait within 10 minutes, because it dared to speak well of Microsoft.

      I wonder if it's David Sell that typed that...


      M.

      --
      I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
      I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
    5. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by SJHillman · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Thank you for including that dollar sign in place of S every time you abbreviate Microsoft. Not only did I not realize they were a for-profit company, I also did not realize the depth of your creativity. You have truly opened my eyes. Now let's see if we can change the characters used to spell Open Source to hint at Stallman. Maybe give it a beard and surround it with flies?

    6. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by HBI · · Score: 4, Informative

      To rebut specifically:

      1) While most users do not need admin access and by default Vista and 7 do not give it to you, I still see people assigning admin rights to themselves and deactivating UAC as a prerequisite to using the computer, which puts the lie to your top two paragraphs. Once they take those two steps, the machine might as well be XP. They actually do it for (to them) legitimate reasons - software related and habit being the two largest.

      2) IE9 still runs any script presented to it that passes a very crude ruleset based on zones. You Microsoft shills (sorry, that's how you come off) always try to compare Firefox without plugins with IE. IE has no facility for blocking scripts and flash selectively that doesn't cost more than a browser is worth. Noscript and ABP are a few mouse clicks away. You can have all the sandboxing in the world, but not letting the script run in the first place is the only effective defense against drive-by malware installs.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    7. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by DavidSell · · Score: 2

      No, sorry, I'm not the same guy, I don't work at Microsoft. Seems like we just share the same name.

      David

    8. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by h4rr4r · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      So this is your only comment with a new account?

      So does it hurt to shill that hard?

      I agree with the top 3 paragraphs, but please don't spam forums.

    9. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by stanlyb · · Score: 2

      He is apparently a paid cheer lady, but nevertheless there is about 80-90% truth in his comment. The newest VS2010 is so far one of the best IDE, there are a lot of MS libraries, tools, etc., that helps the poor developer doing his job, even if the MS environment is so clumsy and bloated.

    10. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by stanlyb · · Score: 3, Funny

      did you mount your hard drive too?

    11. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by DavidSell · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That might be so with the individual products, but there's another factors at play too. For example, for games DirectX has always been better than any other product. It has some minor competition from OpenGL and previously Glide, but they aren't even in the same ballpark and never have been. DirectX is complete package, technologically more advanced and has always had better documentation. It has always been better choice, both to developers and technologically.

      This in turn made Windows really popular among gamers, even up to current day. It also did the groundwork for Microsoft to go for game consoles.

      Similarly, Visual Studio and development tools have always been top-notch, and creating the huge software economy that Windows has. All of these things have helped Windows indirectly.

      Microsoft is mostly interested in providing a platform, and they do it very well. Neither Linux or OS X go that extra mile.

    12. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      The idea that windows 7 is the best thing since xp is silly because it fails to take in account all the exact same issues you have had since XP and windows NT.

      Back in c.o.l.a. days (is that still around?), the Windows fans went through endless rounds of "Yeah, the last version of Windows was crap, but *this* one is the best OS money can buy!" New release, same old song.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    13. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know replying to myself is bad form, but after posting I looked up the stock growth for Microsoft and its competitors. Over the past 10 years, Microsoft is more stagnant than Slashdot (the site, not Geeknet as a company).

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    14. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      Since this is Slashdot, I expect the above well-written post to be marked flamebait within 10 minutes, because it dared to speak well of Microsoft.

      Yet oddly enough, as I write it's modded "4, Interesting".

      Slashdot doesn't suffer from groupthink nearly so bad as a lot of people like to (group?)think it does
      .

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    15. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by hedwards · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's the thing Win 7 is a good, but not great OS, and is solidly mediocre in most respects.

      It's far more secure than it used to be but still lacks things like security levels and separate configuration files like has been the case for many, many years with Linux and *BSD. For as long as I've used FreeBSD I've had security levels to work with, and one program doesn't need to be able to write to a configuration file for another. If it's needed then I, myself, have to make it happen.

      Windows has gotten a lot better, but it is indeed mediocre.

    16. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real fun is when a John Smith shows up and has any position. He'll be linked to an endless barrage of mutually contradictory outside sources as each /.er tries to dismiss him with their own favorite guilt by association.

    17. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by hedwards · · Score: 2

      That's not true at all. I remember those days and DirectX was a steaming load of crap. It just happened to be what MS was using at the time to make it less convenient to program cross platform.

      Windows was really popular amongst gamers for the simple reason that it was the largest platform and attracted the most developer attention. It wasn't any better than the other options at that point, in many ways it was inferior. But, MS had the ability to crowd out the competition and get its OS installed on the vast majority of computers sold. In those days, MacOS was pretty much crap and required paying a premium for Apple hardware.

      But, ultimately, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to replay to an obvious shill.

    18. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Insightful

      DirectX 9 was released 9 years ago, and hasn't been replaced because of the stagnation of Windows. OpenGL is cross-platform, and with OS X's adoption, sees growing use. New versions of DirectX do not add any vital features over old versions, so Microsoft still has no clear advantage in that field.

      Windows does currently hold the gaming market, but OS X is gaining ground, with the porting of Steam and generally-growing user base. A multi-platform release is now an important goal for new games, just as it was in the early 90's.

      Apple is also providing a platform, for which Microsoft has yet to provide a comparable answer. They call it iOS, and it's now the hip new place for budding programmers to make their debut into professional development.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    19. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Windows users also weren't adjusted to having to work under non-admin account. That was the reason most people had issues with Vista, and by the time Windows 7 came out, application and hardware vendors had fixed their issues.

      No. That is absolutely wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

      The reason people hated Vista was because it simply would not run on less than 1GB of RAM. It was so unforgivably bloated and slow, that when people tried to use Vista as if it were a software upgrade that did not require a hardware upgrade, they immediately became enraged that they spent $100.00+ only to be told that they did not read the fine print, and that the System Requirements demand 1GB of RAM MINIMUM.

      XP Era Home Desktops and Laptops could not run Vista, and to ordinary users who are absolutley terrified of swapping out RAM DIMMs, are actively prevented by vendors from swapping hardware, or were simply running laptops with buses for which RAM upgrades were tough to acquire (read: not sold at Best Buy), this meant buying a new PC in order to upgrade their software.

    20. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by hedwards · · Score: 2

      I don't get why people have a problem with UAC, I've found it to be only a bit more annoying that the Linux equivalent. It's not like with Vista where it would be asking for a click every 5 minutes or so.

    21. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by DavidSell · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with a solid, stable company? Except of course if you are doing stock trading you want lots of highs and downs, but otherwise it shouldn't matter. Stock price has little to do with how good company is doing, other than revenue wise. In Microsoft's case it just shows that Microsoft is a solid company and will stay stable as it is for many years.

    22. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Relayman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not the same person as the poster. Sorry.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    23. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Like so many people, you completely misunderstand what UAC is. UAC does not provide security, in fact, UAC's sole function is to lessen security. UAC is what GIVES you the ability to do things.

      The purpose of UAC is the same as sudo, gives you privileges you wouldn't otherwise have. Turning off UAC would mean you couldn't do anything that required any privileges. What most people think

    24. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Relayman · · Score: 0

      The original comment is well thought out and there isn't much objection in subsequent comments. I don't see where the spam is that you're referring to; he's not shilling for a product.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    25. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Relayman · · Score: 1

      He is apparently a paid cheer lady ...

      He says he doesn't work for Microsoft, that's another person with the same name.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    26. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by h4rr4r · · Score: 0

      He created an account just to use for this thread. He clearly copy pasted it, and he is just using it to sell VS.

    27. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You $ure told him. Enjoy your Micro$oft day.

    28. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Of course 2GB of ram only costs $30 at the time, and XP SP2+ basically needed at least 512MB, preferrably 1GB anyways (and standard machines had been shipping with 1GB for a couple of years). So yeah, there some people who were affected by that, but most weren't

    29. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Jeng · · Score: 1

      They actually do it for (to them) legitimate reasons - software related and habit being the two largest.

      One of the titles I help support was written back in 1999, in order for it to save changes it requires admin access, the program that is. With Windows 7 there are around 6 or 7 different ways to give a program admin access, without the user having to log in as an admin. The easiest is right on the compatibility tab.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    30. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by goldspider · · Score: 2

      "1) While most users do not need admin access and by default Vista and 7 do not give it to you, I still see people assigning admin rights to themselves and deactivating UAC as a prerequisite to using the computer, which puts the lie to your top two paragraphs."

      That's an issue of users trading security for convenience, not an inherent weakness of the OS.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    31. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FUck Open ^ource too (thats a dick head for the S instead of a dollar cause it reflects the people you deal with in the open ^ource community). I develop my own OS and build my own computers from sand rocks like that comic i wont link to because your a fag if you link to xkcd

      these don't blue screened and dont black screen like craptastic linux where it just fucking locks up with no useful info or memory dump. at least i can dumpchk my M$ memory dump with some fucking debug symbols and see that it was A%I drivers that crashed it. thats a % for the T because it looks like a turd with a stick in it because A%I make turd graphics. only game looked good in them was M$ turd simulator 3000.

      linux and windows are turds.

    32. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To rebut specifically:

      1) While most users do not need admin access and by default Vista and 7 do not give it to you, I still see people assigning admin rights to themselves and deactivating UAC as a prerequisite to using the computer, which puts the lie to your top two paragraphs.

      I still feel Microsoft needs to be given credit for implementing the UAC by default to begin with. Nobody can drop the single-user paradigm that's dominated consumer-grade computing for the past 30 years overnight and expect end-users (let alone developers) to go along with it swimmingly. At home, XP was typically the first experience most users had with a true multi-user environment to begin with.

      UAC makes the best of a bad situation that is not strictly (or at least not exclusively) Microsoft's fault. You'd sooner eliminate spam before you'd train all computer users to use runas.

      always try to compare Firefox without plugins with IE. IE has no facility for blocking scripts and flash selectively that doesn't cost more than a browser is worth. Noscript and ABP are a few mouse clicks away. You can have all the sandboxing in the world, but not letting the script run in the first place is the only effective defense against drive-by malware installs.

      NoScript is still relatively unique to Firefox, but IE9 has most (if not all) of the capabilities of AdBlock Plus out-of-the-box. You can subscribe to your favorite flavor of EasyList without installing any additional add-ons, third-party or otherwise.

    33. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by HBI · · Score: 1

      No, I dont' misunderstand UAC. Turning UAC off removes the prompting for elevation of privileges. Combined with administrative access to the box, this enables you to operate entirely in the XP mode of full admin access without limitation or even warning.

      I think you misunderstand. Try running as a local administrator on a system with UAC turned on. You get a significant level of prompting even though you should require no privilege escalation.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    34. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by HBI · · Score: 1

      The only equivalent in a Unix concept is running as root. Which I am aware that people do, but it's hard to share that root access around. Not so in the ACL based Windows.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    35. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Windows 7 is a very good OS, actually so good that Microsoft really needs to step up their game in windows 8 so that W7 won't become the new XP.

      Why would that be a bad thing?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    36. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by poetmatt · · Score: 0

      Windows is only vaguely secure when you keep it entirely, 100% stock. This is not a realistic situation for any company and thus, doesn't exist.

      The second you add anything third party which is out of their control, security goes out the window.

      On other operating systems, adding third party programs don't compromise the entire setup like that. So in reality, windows is no more secure than ever since it still gives users the ability to compromise security. Not to say that anyone else is better off, but to act like windows is more secure than it used to be is to be blatantly dishonest to compare to things like the NSA loophole, FIPS loophole, and other government backdoors (such as the ones Microsoft gave themselves) which continue to exist as ways for people to crack into a windows system.

      The worst part is trying to tell people they're secure.

    37. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by artor3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While the OP is clearly a shill, your refutations ring hollow.

      Using Firefox's own usage stats, only about 0.5% of users use NoScript. Comparing that tiny segment to the standard IE install makes no sense.

      Then, on the other side, you focus on people who turn off UAC, and ignore the hundreds of millions who leave it on.

      Basically, from each group, you're cherry picking whichever segment best supports your argument, even when that segment is in no way representative.

    38. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by goldspider · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine having to (often remotely) support 700+ PCs without having local admin rights via ACL, but then my experience on Unix-based systems (outside my Ubuntu/Mint desktop at home) is admittedly limited.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    39. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) While most users do not need admin access and by default Vista and 7 do not give it to you, I still see people assigning admin rights to themselves and deactivating UAC as a prerequisite to using the computer, which puts the lie to your top two paragraphs. Once they take those two steps, the machine might as well be XP.

      I would argue that those actually capable of deactivating UAC and adding their account to the Administrators group are the exact users who don't require those protections.

      UAC in particular is there to benefit vast majority of Windows users who don't t know what the term "executable" means. It helps prevent their PC getting hijacked by the russian mafia because they clicked on a dancing hamster, by giving them an "are you SURE?" prompt. I don't see what's wrong with power users disabling the feature.

    40. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Window$ crashes, you're right.

    41. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Lewis+Daggart · · Score: 2

      If an operating system marketed at users gives users a better interface, how exactly is this a bad thing?

      You are not their demographic, the "luser" is. As a developer, I would hope that you would understand the need to cater to the users, instead of maligning them for not being as knowledgeable as yourself.

      As an aside, the issues that I recall everyone complaining about back in the day were blue screening and degradation over time. I can't speak to your experience but I haven't need a reformat since getting Windows 7, and blue screens and black screens are a thing of the past. The BETA was more stable than previous iterations, the only problem being its lack of driver support.

      I guess the fact that I notice and appreciate these things makes me a Luser. Uh... down with MS. Here's a hilarious picture of Nazi Bill.

      I WANT TO NAME MY FOLDER 'CON'

    42. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see that happening in February 2012 when they release the beta version of Windows 8.

    43. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by causality · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with a solid, stable company? Except of course if you are doing stock trading you want lots of highs and downs, but otherwise it shouldn't matter. Stock price has little to do with how good company is doing, other than revenue wise. In Microsoft's case it just shows that Microsoft is a solid company and will stay stable as it is for many years.

      Okay then... tell me, what don't you like about Microsoft? Or, what do you consider the biggest weakness(es) of either the company itself or any of their products? I believe reasonable people can acknowledge they are not perfect on the basis that no company is perfect.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    44. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      If an operating system marketed at users gives users a better interface, how exactly is this a bad thing?

      If only Windows 7 did...

      Instead we got a brain-dead reimplementation of the 'Start Menu', 'Libraries' that confuse the heck out of non-techies I know, the wacky new taskbar, shinier windows, and... UAC.

      I would agree that UAC was a good idea, but the implementation is awful. The best part is when you start an application, switch to another application, sit there for ten minutes wondering why the first application didn't start up, and then eventually spot the hidden UAC window on the task bar so you can switch to it and click 'Yes, I do want to allow program WhoKnowsWhat to do random shit I don't understand'.

    45. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by haruchai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      John Smith? Around here we prefer to call him Anonymous Coward.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    46. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by jd · · Score: 1

      Because there's still a lot of software that doesn't work correctly if UAC is enabled.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    47. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ehem.. running as a local admin with UAC on, and I've gotten a total of 0 prompts today... in fact, I only get them when installing a new program... that's about it. Not even debugging in Visual Studio needs elevation.

    48. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that most OSes will shine in some area and the only areas in which Windows shines are the direct result of years of monopoly abuse. In short the only reason I use Windows at all is because I paid for a copy and the only reason I paid for a copy is that it's hard to find decent laptops for a reasonable price that haven't at some point paid for a license.

      For MS the fact that Win 7 is regarded as good or mediocre is something that they should be celebrating after 15 years of garbage releases.

      But, they aren't particularly secure like OpenBSD is, they aren't stable and reliable like a good Linux Distro is. They lack the just general well rounded flexibility and reliability that FreeBSD is known for. In short, apart from benefitting from years of monopoly abuse, I have a hard time thinking of anything particularly compelling about Windows that would lead one to conclude it was anything other than mediocre.

    49. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by DavidSell · · Score: 1

      Of the top of my head, I hate that Microsoft killed The Courier tablet and didn't see the potential it had. It was the first tablet that really got me excited, and in my opinion it was bad decision not to go further with it.

    50. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 2

      That's the thing Win 7 is a good, but not great OS, and is solidly mediocre in most respects.

      It's far more secure than it used to be but still lacks things like security levels and separate configuration files like has been the case for many, many years with Linux and *BSD. For as long as I've used FreeBSD I've had security levels to work with, and one program doesn't need to be able to write to a configuration file for another. If it's needed then I, myself, have to make it happen.

      Windows has gotten a lot better, but it is indeed mediocre.

      ??? Normally I don't think much of Windows security, but the OS has had most of the ACLs and other security level systems it has needed since NT3 -- that's not really the problem. The problem is that nobody uses these features. Windows 7 made that a bit better by forcing programmers to use some of them, or end up with code that wouldn't work. Full use of mandatory access controls, ring levels, etc. that are ALREADY THERE would significantly improve security. Unfortunately, most people don't understand how to use these tools, and Microsoft still doesn't make it easy with the development environments it provides... they want to make things easy for the programmer, not more difficult.

    51. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      I don't get why people have a problem with UAC, I've found it to be only a bit more annoying that the Linux equivalent. It's not like with Vista where it would be asking for a click every 5 minutes or so.

      It happens a lot because of poorly-designed old software (or poorly-designed new software).
      It regularly gets hidden when it pops up, so you don't realise that you've been waiting ten minutes for something to happen because UAC was waiting for you to do something.
      It displays meaningless gibberish like 'Do you want to allow program HappyKittyScreenSaver to Access local disk?' so even techies don't know whether they should allow it.

    52. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by causality · · Score: 1

      Of the top of my head, I hate that Microsoft killed The Courier tablet and didn't see the potential it had. It was the first tablet that really got me excited, and in my opinion it was bad decision not to go further with it.

      So you regret that their amazing genius was not applied to tablets? The only thing wrong with the Courier is that it didn't happen?

      Do you believe there are any weaknesses in existing products that I could go purchase today?

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    53. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

      ... until you hit help

    54. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      So Unix has ASLR, DEP, compiler exception handling bounds checking?

      VMS is the only other OS that has DEP support fully. XP has partial support by SP 2.

      Checklist wise Windows is the most secure kernel

    55. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does to run the Windows Azure emulator :-(.

    56. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1, Informative

      Windows 7 is great. I just hit the Windows key and type the file or program I want. It is nice if you forget the name of the file but remember something like sales figures for 2009 and it will display them for you. I go nuts on XP and feel crippled without it. I never go into the program menu at all.

      I did not like the libraries feature at first and grown to like. On my desktop I have an admin account called God and the other one is my limited user account. I can just use public documents to share files back and forth. On my laptop with Windows 7 I can view them with homegroup too.

      The libraries thing is for sharing very easily and it is nice. Windows 7 is a decent OS actually and a real upgrade from XP for those who get frustrated it is not identical to XP and feel XP is fine even though it is approaching 11 years old.

    57. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

      10 years ago you would be modded down faster than goatse.

      5 years maybe too. Most of the anti capitalist pro gnu and linux zealots have faded since the early years as this place turns more I.T. professional oriented

    58. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by antdude · · Score: 1

      Where did you see these statistics? I am curious about other addons/extensions like AdBlock Plus.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    59. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Kalriath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the only areas in which Windows shines are the direct result of years of monopoly abuse

      I'm not convinced of this personally. I personally, and from observation of those around me, find that the areas where Windows shines are that it's easy to use (although there is inevitably some confusion each new release which changes things around for no real reason), and that software built for one version rarely breaks on a newer one. By contrast, OS X will tell you to piss off if you want to run old PPC software (I can still run the 25 year old Commander Keen on Windows 7. I cannot say the same for OS X), and Linux - well, let's just call it unpredictable and leave it at that. It may not refuse to run it, but it may not run correctly either.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    60. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by clodney · · Score: 1

      While the OP is clearly a shill, your refutations ring hollow.

      Where did this widespread belief the Microsoft pays shills to defend its honor on /. come from? Did everyone crank their tinfoil hats up to 11 or something?

      I don't think Slashdot is influential enough to have any impact on Microsoft's business, and as a practical matter, if there is a cadre of professional shills, you don't think somebody would spill the beans? How big a conspiracy is needed?

    61. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Stock price has everything to do with where it is going, not how stable or how profitable it is.

      The goal of any corporation is to raise its stock price. Not make money. ... the exception is a private corporation.

      Since companies do not pay dividends the people who own the stocks do not make a single cent on the stock they purchase. So if it stays stagnant they make no money. Now if the stock price keeps going up and it keeps growing they can now make money to sell it to the next guy and so on and so on.

      If you make profitablity but do not have the right accounting magic ratios that are used to value its share price then there is something wrong with the company as the CEO is ignoring his fidiciary duty to the shareholders.

    62. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by MichaelKristopeit492 · · Score: 0
      cower in my shadow some more, feeb.

      you're completely pathetic.

    63. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by causality · · Score: 2

      So Unix has ASLR, DEP, compiler exception handling bounds checking?

      VMS is the only other OS that has DEP support fully. XP has partial support by SP 2.

      Checklist wise Windows is the most secure kernel

      I tend to doubt that. Have you checked out PaX and Grsecurity? I personally use Gentoo Hardened. It's a source-based distro so everything in userland is also built with SSP which provides the bounds checking (one nice thing about having the source). It also includes support for SELinux (see the Resources section of that first link I provided).

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    64. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 removed the prompting for a lot of tasks, such as attaching a debugger to a process spawned by the debugger itself (which kind of makes sense really, the debugger does technically own that process).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    65. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Not true. Go look at your internet options and you will see different zones for intranet and internet? For one, IE only runs signed activeX controls on the internet, and by default will put a nag are you you want to run X, unless its disabled by default.

      IE 9 blocks access to bad domains and scripts that reference them as well. Go google the study finding IE the most secure browser from 2 or 3 months ago. These blacklists are updated regularly. As an add on you can download additional lists too from the addon website to block ads as well kind of like ad-blocker. I believe VBscript is disabled by default too in IE 9 on the internet.

      Most users have an admin account because software still requires it. Most do not know how to disable UAC, but with ASLR, full DEP, and other security improvements even running as admin is a BIG improvement over XP anyday.

    66. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by causality · · Score: 2

      You are not their demographic, the "luser" is. As a developer, I would hope that you would understand the need to cater to the users, instead of maligning them for not being as knowledgeable as yourself.

      I do appreciate your point. Much of the "maligning" of users is unwarranted. But there is one legitimate form of it that occurs not because they are ignorant, but because they actively resist learning. Do I expect them to become expert technicians overnight? Of course not. But it's just not natural to use a system for five years and know nothing more about it than when you started. That ... that takes work.

      It's the most natural thing in the world to slowly pick up new tidbits of knowledge with increasing experience and to remember at least some fraction of them. There's really no excuse not to. I believe this failure comes from yet another entitlement mentality. After years of public schooling most people are not conditioned to cherish natural curiosity and to see learning as a wonderful, exciting, fascinating opportunity of discovery that opens doors and makes new things possible (see my sig).

      No, instead they think it's hard tedious work because instead of learning a few general principles and reasoning from those in a dynamic and flexible way, they memorize long series of steps by rote that fail if one step in the series is incorrect. Incidentally that's why minute interface changes require "retraining" to update the memorized list, because such users have been rendered too helpless to find the new location for the old feature on their own. Since they think it's hard tedious work to be avoided whenever possible, they feel entitled to never do it unless a boss or other authority figure demands it.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    67. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Either you failed to read anything other than Microsoft's propaganda, er.. literature regarding the history of DirectX or you are an imbecile.

      Microsoft refused to port OpenGL libraries to Windows. Mostly because they were "OPEN" standards available to all developers. Microsoft still refuses to port OpenGL to Windows. Probably because OpenGL is still.. well.. Open. The Port and distribution of OpenGL is up to vendors, and has always been up to vendors. There have been numerous publications where Microsoft explicitly states that they will never ship OpenGL because it is not their standard.

      Microsoft created and distributed DirectX to create Lock in. In many cases large software houses were given 50-70% of their development costs by Microsoft to port to DirectX. This was done with the largest commercial CAD products, and most likely still happens today to ensure it's a "preferred" development platform.

      DirectX is still inferior in performance to OpenGL, and still uses cheats to increase rendering performance at the expense of viewing real math. As an example, OpenGL does some funny things with you look at a surface with an inverted attachment point, generally splaying a prism across your screen. DirectX can not handle this mathematics, and will not show the prism. Instead you will see a nice smooth surface. While this may help a game developer release sloppy code, it explains why institutions that require real math to display use OpenGL.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    68. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows is easier to use than os x because you can't run programs that are 25 years old on it?

    69. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by McGruber · · Score: 2

      WOW,

      you posted that entire comment in under 1 minute. You sir win an internet.

      He could be a subscriber or saw the article in the firehose.

    70. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I guess sticking your head in the sand is a way to view the world. Windows is far more secure today than it was ten years ago, but it's not that much better.

      Sure, we hear about exploits in flash and adobe, but honestly it's only because we "hear" about them, there are serious security holes in windows that go unpatched for months, even years, and you don't hear about them simply because it's something that keeps happening, completely not news worthy, people got used to them, hell, there's a whole industry based on that poor security.

      The other problem with Microsoft products, isn't their security, sure, we can agree that it's impossible to flesh out all the bugs and problems, every piece of software has them, but there's this thing called "vendor locked" which is somewhat of an art form to them.

      Oh, and scrap IE, there's Firefox and Chrome, which in terms of years experience should be complete newbies, but manage a secure and standards compliant product for multiple platforms.

    71. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Eh, I ran XP as a standard user. Let me tell you, UAC (even on Vista) was a god-send. After the hell of RunAs (which can only be used on executables; if you wanted to do something like install a .MSI you had to manually elevate msiexec.exe and pass the .MSI as a parameter) I thought Vista's UAC was the best thing since multi-user Windows. I've used NT at least lightly since 4 and first used it primarily with 2000, but mostly as Admin because it was too much of hassle otherwise (sometimes as "Power User" - I'm sure somebody else remembers that group).

      Through heavy tweaking of filesystem and registry ACLs, I got most software to run happily as standard user on XP, but you still needed to do RunAs as often as on Vista, and it was way more hassle each time. When Vista came out, I was actually able to reduce the amount of UAC relative to XP's RunAs, partially by applying what I'd learned making XP limited-user tolerable, and partially because I discovered you could force installers to run as standard user (provided they weren't trying to write to the Windows folder or anything like that) so long as there was a user-writable folder to install them into.

      That said, Win7 is certainly a big step forward. It seems to have crossed the line of how much UAC the typical user (who has no idea how to reduce its frequency the way I did) is willing to put up with.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    72. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by JDG1980 · · Score: 1

      Then the vendors of that software need to be kicked in the ass hard.

    73. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Funny, my IE9 install has Flash blocking and Ad blocking.

      For Flash, I use the built-in Flash-blocking (site-wide basis, not the fine-grained of Firefox FlashBlock, but c'est la vie). Tools -> Manage Add-ons -> Shockwave Flash Object -> Remove all sites. It will now operate on a whitelist basis, not even loading the plugin until you approve the page. The prompt appears on the Information Bar (at the bottom of the screen).

      Too annoying to have the Info Bar, or want to block *all* ActiveX proactively? Tools -> Safety -> ActiveX Filtering. Puts a little blue circle with a line through it in the address bar when content is being blocked. Click the circle, and you can enable or disable the filtering site-by-site.

      For blocking ads, you can use the Tracking Protection feature of IE9. I actually use the block-lists from EasyList (the same folks who make the popular block list for ABP) as they have a script that automatically converts their block lists to IE's format, and IE will automatically update the lists if you subscribe to them. I also maintain a custom list on top of the EasyList subscriptions. Again, this can be disabled on a site-by-site basis using the little blue circle, or you can manually whitelist something on your personal list (will override the subscribed lists).

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    74. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Informative

      How did this get marked insightful? Boy the geeks treating corps like ballclubs just gets worse by the quarter, don't it?

      As for how Win 7 is better, as someone who has been working on the things since before there even was a Windows let me count the ways. 1.-ASLR makes it damn hard to use buffer overflows. 2.-DEP keeps software from writing in non executable locations, again helping kill buffer overflows dead. the fact that before 7 I'd see a hell of a lot of buffer overflow exploits and now its all social engineering tells me a lot. 3.- Both IE and Chromium based browsers by default are in low rights mode, which is even lower than a *nix standard user, this helps kill drivebys dead and is why I no longer recommend Firefox because it doesn't support this security feature even after being introduced FIVE years ago. 4.-Action center which creates a "one stop shop" for security and by default reminds the user they need to have a scheduled backup plan which brings me to 5.- Windows backup being image based now makes it MUCH easier for the user to have a solid backup plan in place that will actually restore the machine even on drive failure. It also by default includes the folders most used by people to store their important data like My Docs, pictures, and their music folders.

      Now as for the non security features we have 1.-Jumplists, how in the hell did we live without these? these are the best damned thing since the DVD burner as far as I'm concerned, when I want to get back to what I was working on yesterday just right click on Explorer and BAM! my folders are back up, right click on Dragon and BAM! all my websites are back up, its just too damned quick. 2.-Breadcrumbs, man i love the breadcrumbs because when you have a file and folder setup several level deep breadcrumbs make navigation fast fast fast. 3.-Superfetch, with RAM so cheap Superfetch can really give Windows a hell of a speed boost along with ALL your apps. the longer you run the system the smarter it gets thanks to its DB of usage patterns so it knows for example that between 9-5 I'm gonna be running Dragon and after 5 I'm firing up WMP to play my music so BAM! Its already loaded into RAM and ready. With 8Gb of RAM I even have the core files of my current favorite games loaded into cache so when I fire up Just Cause II BAM! there it is, that's damned nice. 4.- Readyboost when combined with Superfetch gives a hell of a speedboost to mobile devices like laptops and netbooks. not so much desktops as you have fast RPM drives there and fatter caches but on a netbook you can pop a fast cheap SD card into the card reader and just leave it there and it really makes you apps load quick.

      Now I could probably name off a good two dozen more of each but do I really have to AC? There are plenty of things to bitch at MSFT about, like Vista being rushed with serious bugs, their mobile strategy is pretty much "Ape Apple" but Windows 7 ain't one of them. I've converted just about all my customers to Win 7 and to a man I've not had a single complaint about 7, in fact most ended up buying the family packs later just so they could get rid of XP completely. Once you've used the new features in 7 going back to XP feels like Win98, its THAT backwards.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    75. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      77 million PlayStation Network customers might disagree with you. MS security is not just as good as competitors. While it is true that MS can't win by being secure alone, I agree with an earlier poster that MS is winning the security battle relative to competitors, and that will help MS's reputation over time as competitor weaknesses become exploited.

    76. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Then the vendors of that software need to be kicked in the ass hard.

      LOL.. good luck with that.

      What's the point of running Windows if you have to replace all your old software with new versions?

    77. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      And why do you believe that Windows/Apple/BSD admins are more professional?

    78. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you created an account to fucking troll Slashdot. You just did it a long time ago.

    79. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Since companies do not pay dividends the people who own the stocks do not make a single cent on the stock they purchase.

      Actually, Microsoft declared a $0.20 dividend per common share in October. Over four quarters, that would be $0.80 a share. The stock price is in the high 20s, so that is about a 3% annual return.

    80. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Threni · · Score: 1

      Hilarious post!

      DirectX rules the gaming world, and doesn't need to add `vital features` as it already has them.

      Multi-platform releases have always been important.

      iOS, like Android, is a fine platform for beginner game developers and budget games, but I feel we're some way off it being comparable with PC/PS3/Xbox type games.

    81. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by jd · · Score: 1

      I agree completely, but if you recall XP actually had to remove security features because of stubborn vendors wanting to write insecure software. Vendors of all kinds hate doing things right.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    82. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Having 2 GB cost $30 does no good for people whose computers could only handle three 256 megabyte RAM cards.

    83. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by benjymouse · · Score: 1

      The purpose of UAC is the same as sudo, gives you privileges you wouldn't otherwise have. Turning off UAC would mean you couldn't do anything that required any privileges. What most people think

      You are seriously mistaken. User Account Control works by *stripping* your the process token of certain "powerful privileges". UAC does NOT elevate your privileges beyond what is already granted to you through group direct assignments or groups memberships. Once you elevate through an UAC prompt it merely gives you those rights back. That is *very* different from Linux/Unix/sudo where you essentially change effective user to the all-powerful, unrestricted root account.

      Think about that for a second. Think about the irony that sudo is actually more like ActiveX (handing over the keys to the kingdom and pray that the visitor is well-behaved) than UAC is. In Windows there is no single all-powerfull account. An administrator account still just holds just the privileges and permissions granted to it, and they can be taken away. In Unix/Linux you have syscalls which just checks for euid == 0 and then passes. Worse, in most distros (Fedora the notable exception) you are actually *forced* to run many processes as SUID processes because privileges cannot be granted.

      It is true that the UAC prompt cal *also* be used to run a process as a higher privileged user, but that required the full account name and password to be entered, at which point the process will continue with the new users privileges.

      On an architectural level Windows has meaningful process tokens where Linux/Unix has a very simplistic (and inadequate) effective-user system. That's right, Windows process tokens are fine-grained and not restricted to any user account. Privileges (identified by SIDs) can be granted or denied in the token. Groups can be added or removed from the token. In Unix/Linux you will need something like grsecurity or SELinux to achieve the same level of expressiveness. And in Windows it is not bolted-on; actually Windows has had that kind of tokens since the NT 3.5 days.

      --
      Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    84. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by stanlyb · · Score: 1

      LOL, so true. I did not mention it because who nowadays is not using Google!!!

    85. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by DavidSell · · Score: 1

      Why would it be Microsoft's job to port OpenGL to Windows and not the authors? I don't bitch at them porting my code, either.

    86. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by DavidSell · · Score: 0

      Weaknesses? Most likely, as all products have. But something that really bugs me? No, not in the products I use, at least. Of course you can always improve something, but I can't really think of specific thing that I would hate.

      I was going to point out that I've always thought IE is somewhat slow to use, but I before I posted I quickly tested IE9 and man has that improved, both performance and UI wise. Since it also supports HTML5 and other standards I don't think there's anything to complain about it. Firefox and Chrome like addons would be nice touch, but I personally use Opera anyway.

    87. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by artor3 · · Score: 1

      This guy created a new account purely to post in this thread, and based on the timestamps, he apparently had his post typed up ahead of time, just waiting for a Microsoft security related story to come along. That definitely sets off my shill-dar.

      It's pretty well established that companies do hire shills. They aren't directly on the companies payroll, but are instead subcons of marketing companies hired by the company that wants the astroturfing done. I've read "exposés" by such shills in the past, talking about how they juggle a few accounts on a few different forums, and how the best ones first work to build up a rapport in the community before casually praising the business that hired them. Of course, those shills are more expensive (since there was more of a time investment).

      It's not a conspiracy, it's just something companies do as a form of marketing. A lot of Slashdot readers are sysadmins, which makes this site a logical target for people advertising IT-related products (includes the ones sold by MS), just as people watching sitcoms at 1 AM on a Saturday are logical targets for those "dating" phone lines.

    88. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      In addition to, not because of.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    89. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      (I can still run the 25 year old Commander Keen on Windows 7. I cannot say the same for OS X)

      I call bullshit, windows 7 has no dos stuff in it. The only way to run commander keen on windows 7 is to use dosbox to do it (If you purchase it new from id software, it comes bundled with dosbox to run it) the very same open source dos box which can be used on both mac and linux.

    90. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The astroturfer brigade of Redmond strikes again.

      They did it with IE and Zune. Now they will do it with WP7 and Win8.

      No matter. WP7 is dying, and Win8 will actually make WinMe look good.

      Predictions: WP7 won't get even 10% of the smartphone OS market, and people (home users and corporate users) are going to stick with Win7 for as long as they can. Plenty of unsold Win8 tablets collecting dust in inventories. Ballmer gets nudged into 'early retirement'.

    91. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      DirectX rules the gaming world, and doesn't need to add `vital features` as it already has them.

      That's my point. There's nothing new that's really useful, so there's no real reason to upgrade to DX 10 or 11, which leads back to my original claim that Microsoft hasn't been really innovative in about 10 years.

      Multi-platform releases have always been important.

      Except from the mid-90's to mid 2000's, where new games were available almost exclusively for Windows. Mac versions were much rarer, and were hardly ever seen in major retailers. If you had a mac and wanted to play a game, mail-order was the best chance you had to get it. Barring that, Mac users were often left out, and to a large extent they still are today. Steam (and a set of its most popular games) was released for Windows in 2003, but not on OS X until 2010.

      iOS, like Android, is a fine platform for beginner game developers and budget games, but I feel we're some way off it being comparable with PC/PS3/Xbox type games.

      iOS is nothing like a full console, of course, but that's not my point. My statement was in response to the shill:

      Microsoft is mostly interested in providing a platform, and they do it very well. Neither Linux or OS X go that extra mile.

      Apple is effectively sidestepping all competition with Microsoft by dominating the mobile market with the iOS devices. They're convenient, and have a key feature that Google doesn't care about, and Microsoft has been chasing for years without achieving. All iOS devices look and act exactly the same as every other one, and that's very close to how OS X looks and acts. They have a complete platform with an enormous userbase, and they don't have to fight hard for it. That "extra mile" race was finished with the utter failure of the Zune.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    92. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by symbolset · · Score: 1

      And this is why we can't have nice things.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    93. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      That's nice. Now tell me what software I can use to run PPC applications on Lion? Wait, there is none? Oh, that's terrible.

      Besides, 32-bit Windows 7 can and does run 16-bit DOS applications. 64-bit does not because the processor is physically incapable of running 16-bit code in 64-bit mode, and there's perfectly reasonable alternative solutions freely available (ex. DOSBox) so there's no need to write an emulation layer.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    94. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      Pet peeves with what limited windows 7 use I've had (generally integrating it into others networks)

      1 - lack of NFS support unless you use ultimate/enterprise editions, most machines don't come with ultimate, so that is $189 AUD per copy straight up just to get it to work decently with network shares. (and no, smb is not an adequate solution)

      2 - The control panel reimagination, no windows, I don't want you to try to fix the problem for me, I know the problem, but let me find the dialog to fix it myself please instead of fighting me the whole time.

      3 - lack of native software raid5 support, completely rules it out for NAS usage.

      If you want to do anything not in the realm of playing computer games or using office stuff etc, you can pull it off with only a level of inelegant nasty hackery that makes linux look like childsplay.

      Using windows server 2008 instead remedies a fair bit, but introduces it's own set of problems. For starters the $700 price tag for standard edition with only five client access licenses. I've encountered instances in a reasonable size home network of a large family that this has been hit, not to mention having to actually track licensing usage etc.

      In short, if you are doing anything more than playing games, watching youtube videos and office stuff, why deal with with windows bullshit?

    95. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by walshy007 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Besides, 32-bit Windows 7 can and does run 16-bit DOS applications.

      No it cannot, try running something like kknd, syndicate wars or the like on 32-bit windows 7, it won't even try to start up let alone work properly.

      Things like that need proper dos (or an emulated environment like dosbox, or a VM with dos on it), which no version of windows has supplied since windows ME.

      As for running ppc apps while having lion installed, here provides a few solutions. Mostly it is either virtualization or dual booting.

      But hey, dual booting win98/win2k or win98/winXP was how people remedied wanting to play their dos games too, and you've already said that work-arounds such as dos box and virtualization are acceptable.

    96. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? DirectX 10 and 11 are massive improvements over DirectX 9. DX9 is still around because game developers have switched to targeting the XBox 360 and PS3, which only support DX9 level features.

    97. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      It needs to move 10% annually to be just average. That is what Wall Street looks for

    98. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah Chrome / SRWare it's the only browser that when I tell squid no frame iframe xframe and light up vidalia/popo/tor they all work perfectly for installing frame iframe xframe trojans and worms. lol There's the dirty secrets of the day.

      Oh and before I forget HAPPY BIRTHDAY MICROSOFT!

    99. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      To me a professional is one who has opinions but works with them at work and understands why people use each one. 10 years ago slashdot was filled with angry college kids who used Windows 98 which bluescreened like a mofo if you install/uninstall apps frequently who have no real world experience rail about Windows and quote their CS professors on how great Unix is. Today these schools have macs, Windows is better, and these same schools teach CS for Windows and Unix or just Windows. Not this PC is for toys and real work is the mainframe or Solaris OS etc that was taught.

      There were many who are so radically anti corporate that they would flame redhat users for using non free drivers. Things are much more grown up here

    100. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      It'd be a bad thing for MS, since they want people to shell out the money for their new OSes as often as possible. (Obvious.) It wouldn't be a bad thing for the users. But GP didn't seem to argue that it would be bad for the users.

    101. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      You DO realize that every. single. thing. you bitched about are SERVER and ENTERPRISE technologies and you are bitching because you have to gasp! Shock! Actually use a server or enterprise software for server or enterprise features? How many home users need NFS? How many are running a home built NAS? i'd say damned close to zero. BTW IIRC Win 7 Pro has most if not all those features so you can run that, or just buy the right tool for the right job instead of bitching that home systems aren't designed for enterprise work. if you want a NAS buy a fricking NAS or get one of the bazillion cheapo HP boxes with Windows Home Server, those make excellent low power NAS and Home Server boxes.

      But what you are bitching about has been the way MSFT has done things since waaay back with WinNT. You have Home, Workstation, Enterprise, Server, each tailored to a different job. the only fuckup i see in their current business model is Ultimate, I mean WTF are they thinking when the MOST expensive has the LEAST length of support? if you didn't know while pro and Enterprise gets 10 years Ultimate only gets 5 like Home which is just stupid. But if you are wanting all those features for cheap you shouldn't even be in a discussion about Windows in the first place, you should be over on LinuxInsider learning how to turn an off lease into a badass headless server. different tools for different jobs friend, and not having SOFTWARE RAID is as SMART idea because that is the LAST thing you'd want home users to have. I've dealt with enough gamers who royally fucked their entire setup by going with software RAID to know that if you give a shit about your data you do NOT fuck with it, you get a decent RAID controller and let IT handle the RAID, PERIOD.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    102. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      How many home users need NFS?

      I'd say most of the people who have older model embedded media playback devices that only support it, that is why I have had to go that route on several home networks.

      How many are running a home built NAS?

      Mostly people with home theater setups and the like, I wouldn't call it every mom and pop but among pc enthusiasts (and as you mention, even gamers) it is extremely common now compared to ten years ago.

      Shock! Actually use a server or enterprise software for server or enterprise features?

      I'd hardly consider nfs support an enterprise feature, considering windows xp had it. The features listed should all be standard fare for operating systems these days, it is no longer 1998 when having a web browser preloaded on the os was an awesome feature. Hell back then smp support was an enterprise feature, nowadays every home machine has several cores.

      Basically my primary bitching is about how microsoft artificially limits its own software, and doesn't get with the times.

      Operating systems are a commodity product these days, the primary features were down pat quite some time ago, we should not have to pay for technology that is several decades old.

      I've dealt with enough gamers who royally fucked their entire setup by going with software RAID to know that if you give a shit about your data you do NOT fuck with it, you get a decent RAID controller and let IT handle the RAID, PERIOD.

      So when the raid controller dies in a couple years time and is no longer made, the data is completely irretrievable? that sounds very irresponsible.

      I've had plenty of failed disks and even disk controllers using linux softraid, recovery back to a non-degraded state works just fine and dandy.

    103. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Right, that was kind-of my point. All we as users want is a stable environment in which to work. At some point we need to get off the upgrade merry-go-round.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    104. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Win9x bluescreening had nothing to do with installing/uninstalling apps and everything to do with lack of proper memory management.

    105. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by arose · · Score: 1

      Linux has a default that people in general can comprehend and as much modular security as you can personally handle. The highly complex system Windows employs is likely the reason it got summarily ignored by developers and users alike.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    106. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I remember being in tech support when Office switched to Ribbon. That was a busy period.

    107. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1
      Microsoft has a lot of not-invented-here issues... or rather not-patented-here. That is why they install such a limited selection of codecs out of the box: WMA/WMV, h264 on the the newer IE versions, with some reluctance MP3, and that's it. No Vorbis, no ogg, no webm video, no theora... all of these would not only compete with WMA/V, but likely *win* because they are also available on non-Microsoft platforms. Most importantly, built into firefox.

      They also loathe open source. Really loathe it. Take, as an example, this extract from their licence agreements. I took this particular one from XP home, but it's actually a common section - among other things, it's in the licence for implimenting the ASF specification.

      3.3 Identified Software. If you use the Redistributables, then in addition to your compliance with the applicable distribution requirements described for the Redistributables, the following also applies. Your license rights to Redistributables are conditioned on you (a) not incorporating Identified Software into or combining Identified Software with the Redistributables; (b) not distributing Identified Software in conjunction with the Redistributables; and (c) not using Identified Software in the development of a derivative work of Sample Code. ... Identified Software includes, without limitation, any software that requires as a condition of its use, modification and/or distribution that any other software incorporated into, derived from or distributed with such software must also be (f) disclosed or distributed in source code form, (g) licensed for the purpose of making derivative works, or (h) redistributable at no charge.

      I have actually broken this contract myself, in implimenting an ASF header analyser: I edited the code in emacs, and didn't realise until a little while later that I was violating section c (The ASF version actually refers to using the specification, not to redistributables as the Windows EULA does, but the rest of the text is the same) which prohibits using identified software in development. Worse, I compiled it in GCC. I'm not the only programmer to run into this: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.devel.core/3570

      Microsoft loaths open source with such intensity that to access the specification for ASF (The container used in the WMA and WMV formats) you have to agree not even to use an open-source editor to write the code. Oh, and just to add further insult, one of the other clauses forbids giving your software the ability to save in any format *other* than ASF... the idea being that once media is in ASF, it'd be impossible to convert it into any other format. The developer of Virtualdub had to pull ASF support after a Microsoft lawyer threatened to sue him for patent infringement.

    108. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Unsurprising - it reached market saturation. When your core products - Office and Windows - are used in practically every office and desktop PC, there isn't any room for growth other than entering new markets, and Microsoft's history on that is almost as poor as Googles. For every Xbox, there are Zunes.

    109. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It doesn't take long for that sort of user to realise that even though they don't know what this strange dialog means, clicking 'yes' usually gives them what they want.

    110. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by noodler · · Score: 1

      "DirectX rules the gaming world, and doesn't need to add `vital features` as it already has them."

      Direct3d is on the way out.
      The platform is not designed to keep up with the flexibility of modern gpu designs and the increased bandwith between gpu and cpu.
      There are bits of directx that put gigantic overhead on doing things in other ways than dictated by direct3d.

      Very little effort is put into making it future-proof and directx already cannot expose more than 15% (guestimate, in reality propably lower) of a modern GPU's capabilities.
      That's right, pc gamers have been pissing their moneys away because directx wants things done in a certain way.
      GPU these days are pretty potent calculators and the directx api is severily limiting what you can do with that power.
      A direct3d game cannot efficiently do things that directx cannot do, even if the card or the drivers can do much much more fancy things.
      It's inefficient bloaty overly complex crapware that manages to produce some compatibility.
      But that means the high end suffers for being limited.

    111. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      I'd say most of the people who have older model embedded media playback devices that only support it, that is why I have had to go that route on several home networks.

      What are these devices ? Why would any "embedded media playback device" preference NFS over SMB, when the proportion of the target audience who even had an NFS-capable data source would be fractions of one percent ?

      I'd hardly consider nfs support an enterprise feature, considering windows xp had it.

      NFS, outside of serious (as in: all the way to the desktop) UNIX environments and virtualisation, is practically unheard of.

      Basically my primary bitching is about how microsoft artificially limits its own software, and doesn't get with the times.

      No, your bitching is about how Microsoft isn't supporting your niche requirements.

    112. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      You get a significant level of prompting even though you should require no privilege escalation.

      For example ?

    113. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Which I am aware that people do, but it's hard to share that root access around.

      Never heard of 'su', I take it ?

    114. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      On other operating systems, adding third party programs don't compromise the entire setup like that.

      Really ? Can you elaborate on which awesome features and capabilities these "other operating systems" have that Windows lacks ?

    115. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      What are these devices ? Why would any "embedded media playback device" preference NFS over SMB, when the proportion of the target audience who even had an NFS-capable data source would be fractions of one percent ?

      I cannot remember the brand off hand it was a company that specializes in such embedded devices on the higher end of the scale. It did technically support smb but even in the menu system it forewarned that the performance penalty to do so was pretty nasty and that hd stream throughput may suffer for it. Tried smb then nfs and there was a night and day difference, so nfs stayed. They were quite nice devices though and if interested I can post what it was after i visit them next.

      No, your bitching is about how Microsoft isn't supporting your niche requirements.

      Almost everyones niche is someone elses mainstream, my grandmother spends most of her time on the computer playing solitaire, creative people can spend a lot of time in photoshop, and so on and so forth.

      Most of these niches are covered by third party applications, however the fundamental stuff like filesystems and standardized lowish level communication protocols should be handled by the kernel abstraction layers. Unlike other functionality this is hard to replace, thankfully since it is so simple microsoft have had it done internally for ages, but they choose to ream you over the coals if you want to use it...

      They are entitled to release whatever they like, as am I to say the released core functionality of their os is a decade behind others, and if anything they intend on only further restrictions. (Hell, my sister got a netbook a short while ago that had windows 7 starter, the thing both ran like a dog without running anything and actually artificially limited her from running more than two programs).

      If you run linux you don't have to worry about what it is going on or what it is going to be used for as you are free to do with the os whatever you wish. One less thing to think about. Technical problems are solvable, social and legal problems caused by artificial limitations and nasty licensing agreements are a damn bitch.

    116. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Name one, because I'd set up sandisk and Cowon and Rio and just about every kind of MP3 and PMP known to man and I have NEVER actually seen on that preferred NFS, not saying that one couldn't exist but if it does you are talking a teeeny tiny niche of a niche friend. And as for NAS? that's what those cheapo HP WHS boxes are for. Its a HELL of a lot cheaper and unlike some jury rigged homebuilt it will actually be efficient and is actually BUILT for that job, its also great for media and file serving since it has a ...drumroll...server OS!

      And XP PRO had it, which has been replaced by Enterprise. Win 7 Pro is for workstations which is what pro originally was back in the days of WinNT and Win2k but MSFT had to get WinXP out the door quick after WinME went down in flames so they didn't bother separating the workstation and enterprise builds like they did with WinNT and Win2K. So complaining about that is like complaining that you built support around a glitch and get pissed when the glitch is removed. look up the versions of NT/2K and you'll see they had Enterprise and Data Center for the jobs you listed and NT/2K pro was for workstation.

      In the end it comes down to the fact you simply don't want to pay for the correct version that you require but in a capitalist system they are free to set the price and you are free to use something else. For the jobs you have it would frankly be insane to use a desktop because its not designed to support the connections you require and there is already a perfectly affordable version that is DESIGNED to do the tasks you want. Now if you say that $48 is too damned much for a server OS then we'll know you are just trolling. If not may I suggest you buy a cheap AM2+ board along with this chip along with a cheap case from Geeks and for less than $250 all told you can have your very own low power high performance media server. i've actually built a couple using that chip and Asrock boards and its easy peasy to make a whisper quiet media server using the above.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    117. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Threni · · Score: 1

      On the way out, so it's being replaced by....what? Don't pretty much all best selling PC/Xbox games use DirectX?

      Never mind efficiency; MS is efficient, and would provide missing functionality if there's a market demand for it.

      Also, DirectX targets the GPU, as I understand it. Games say `needs DirectX 10` or whatever and you get a graphics card with a GPU which also supports it, so I'm not sure what you mean.

      Graphics card manufacturers design their shit around DirectX - they have for years.

    118. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by noodler · · Score: 1

      "On the way out, so it's being replaced by....what? Don't pretty much all best selling PC/Xbox games use DirectX?"

      On the way out as in game devs dedicating more time to circumvent D3D to achieve new types of visuals.

      "Never mind efficiency; MS is efficient, and would provide missing functionality if there's a market demand for it."

      dictating a standard != providing missing functionality
      And microsoft is not a nimble little fairy that magically implements everything gamedevs ever wanted and more, lol.

      Besides, it's not about providing missing functionality.
      It's about their 3D framework being designed for old graphics hardware and system specs at the core.
      nVidia and AMD have to keep implementing stupid and ridiculous stuff in their drivers to satisfy direct3d while at the same time d3d prevents the full use of modern gpu architecture.
      That is why we have stuff like CUDA that sidestep the graphics pipeline alltogether and use the GPU in a different way.
      I mean, you could not do a real time ray tracing thing with D3D, but the GPU wouldn't mind chewing on those calculations.
      It simply is a very limited api if you care to look at what the hardware is capable of.
      You can only do games efficiently if they look like D3D

      And they know it to.
      You mention xbox, but on that platform (as on any other console) it becomes essential to circumvent provided apis as much as possible to be able to deliver new experiences. It is impossible to talk to the hadware directly without going through a mile of abstraction layer in D3D.
      If people would purely use D3D on the 360 then we would see games with worse graphics than a 5 year old pc game.
      That's because 5 years ago pc hardware was about as powerfull as that of an 360.
      Surprise surprise, the 360 does way cooler things now graphically than pc games did 5 years ago.
      Why?
      Because on the pc it's totaly impractical to optimize around D3D (unless you use newer versions of opengl, and even then).
      And that is why pc games look way crappier running on a pc then on similar hardware but on consoles.

      "Also, DirectX targets the GPU, as I understand it. Games say `needs DirectX 10` or whatever and you get a graphics card with a GPU which also supports it, so I'm not sure what you mean."

      Because a cards driver can process D3D things doesn't mean it is limited to D3D or that D3D can realize everything the hardware is capable of.
      The cards do not process D3D directly, the driver translates D3D to more native commands.
      Problem is, of course, that the native commands in the driver change depending on the GPU architecture.
      So the only real use for D3D is hardware abstraction.
      But i think they have taken it too far and now they are dictating what a card should be capable of instead of providing a real interface to the cards capabilities.

    119. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by noodler · · Score: 1

      Here is an interesting quote from AMD's head of GPU developer relations, Richard Huddy :

      'It's funny,' says AMD's worldwide developer relations manager of its GPU division, Richard Huddy. 'We often have at least ten times as much horsepower as an Xbox 360 or a PS3 in a high-end graphics card, yet it's very clear that the games don't look ten times as good. To a significant extent, that's because, one way or another, for good reasons and bad - mostly good, DirectX is getting in the way.' Huddy says that one of the most common requests he gets from game developers is: 'Make the API go away.' 'I certainly hear this in my conversations with games developers,' he says, 'and I guess it was actually the primary appeal of Larrabee to developers – not the hardware, which was hot and slow and unimpressive, but the software – being able to have total control over the machine, which is what the very best games developers want. By giving you access to the hardware at the very low level, you give games developers a chance to innovate, and that's going to put pressure on Microsoft – no doubt at all.'

      Also, the rest of the article explains most of the things that suck about D3D.
      Note the last sentence, according to him D3D does damage to innovation. So your comment about microsoft providing functionality as demand rises is nonsense. There is demand, yet no solution from microsoft.

    120. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I cowered in your mom, feeb.

    121. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by MichaelKristopeit477 · · Score: 1
      cower in my shadow some more, coward.

      you're a coward.

    122. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by mcswell · · Score: 1

      "On my desktop I have an admin account called God..." This is a copyright violation, and He will be in contact with you shortly.

    123. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      How about the basic security issues:

      they didn't provide a crack to the encryption for the entire operating system.

      So yeah, I'd consider that a security feature.

      Do we have to go through this every time someone mistakenly believes that windows somehow has more features and capabilities than every other enterprise solution?

    124. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      they didn't provide a crack to the encryption for the entire operating system.

      What does that even mean ?

    125. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad the Ribbon was good for somebody :-).

    126. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      Name one, because I'd set up sandisk and Cowon and Rio and just about every kind of MP3 and PMP known to man and I have NEVER actually seen on that preferred NFS

      Here you go it's a fine player that plays anything format you could really want, but smb performance is abysmal, nfs is the only way to go for hd streaming over the network.

      And as for NAS? that's what those cheapo HP WHS boxes are for. Its a HELL of a lot cheaper and unlike some jury rigged homebuilt it will actually be efficient and is actually BUILT for that job, its also great for media and file serving since it has a ...drumroll...server OS!

      Oh, you mean like the dedicated cheapo home storage boxes that were already installed when i arrived? it handled four disks at the time and achieved a maximum throughput over the network of 4mb/sec. When I made the linux nas (with the only new hardware being an extra plain sata controller, rest he already had) he wanted some more storage so it now uses five drives and pretty much saturates gigabit ethernet (sequential read speeds of between 320-350mb/sec too).

      Oh and that dedicated embedded nas box ran an ancient version of linux with softraid, so reading the old drives and updating/using them was not a problem.

      For the jobs you have it would frankly be insane to use a desktop because its not designed to support the connections you require

      It would be insane to use a typically installed windows, linux works fine and dandy as both server and desktop, the people understand that they have to leave that machine on in order for the media hardware to access it (there are five 40+ inch tv's in that house with some form of network playback device attached). But it also functions to access the internet and end user purposes also.

      look up the versions of NT/2K and you'll see they had Enterprise and Data Center for the jobs you listed and NT/2K pro was for workstation.

      Yes, because we all love paying more for the os than we do the entirety of the hardware, and only to still have more limitations.... win2k enterprise edition was damn expensive

      The only difference between server and client is which one is providing information, the hardware is not typically a limitation, a modern i5 or i7 has no trouble serving up many a webpage or media, on a modern machine the software is the limitation. In fact half the reason it was setup this way was the abysmal performance and lack of flexibility with embedded solutions.

      With windows you have this arbitrary line between 'this is used for a server' and 'this is used for a desktop' with linux, it will do whatever you damn well want it to do, which isn't that the point after all? for software to do what the user wants?

      As far as power consumption is concerned, having a bunch of disks spinning already consumes a fair bit of power, the extra overhead of the machine is balanced with the immediate availablility of a machine that is always on and ready to do what you wish, with more flexibility and performance superior to any cheap and nasty embedded nas device.

      The windows home server 2011 you listed is decent value. It still presents quite a few limitations that are not present in a linux solution but to most these would be moot, although it isn't windows 7 which was what the topic was originally about. With that kind of pricing I fail to see why desktop users aren't simply using windows home server as their primary desktop os. Cheaper than windows 7 and with less restrictions.

    127. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by causality · · Score: 1

      Weaknesses? Most likely, as all products have. But something that really bugs me? No, not in the products I use, at least. Of course you can always improve something, but I can't really think of specific thing that I would hate. I was going to point out that I've always thought IE is somewhat slow to use, but I before I posted I quickly tested IE9 and man has that improved, both performance and UI wise. Since it also supports HTML5 and other standards I don't think there's anything to complain about it. Firefox and Chrome like addons would be nice touch, but I personally use Opera anyway.

      Knowingly or not, I leave that up to you and wouldn't presume to guess ...

      But you truly come across like someone who is afraid to piss off his boss.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    128. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      While there might be a few such systems out there (typically laptops, and they weren't limited to specific sizes of memories, rather they were limited by the density of the memory, thus could take larger sized sticks when they became available in lower densities), most computers simply didn't have those limitations. If anything, 2GB was the limitation for anything built in the XP era, which was typically a chipset limitation.

    129. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Interestingly it was also one of the reasons why people initially hated Vista.

      Initially?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    130. Re:Microsoft Succeeded by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      It means that Microsoft has provided the government (not just NSA) for their perusal all of their encryption (and decryption) keys for windows - so information can be readily decoded at the OS level even if you use bitlocker or other full-disk encryption solutions, and that this has been going on since Windows XP.

  2. Now it's Android's turn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Troll because it's true.

  3. Not a shill at all by oGMo · · Score: 1, Troll

    A new user profile with a very fast first pro-MS post about the successes of MS and Windows? Can't possibly be a shill. I'm actually curious whether these people are paid for this stuff or they're just insecure MS employees with nothing better to do.

    Like them or not, at least you don't see Google and Apple stooping to these levels.

    --

    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    1. Re:Not a shill at all by grimmjeeper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Shill or not, he has a point. Security within Windows and Internet Exploder have improved over the years. It may not be all wine and roses but it's not as bad as it once was.

      Of course, there still is a long way to go...

    2. Re:Not a shill at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But we were told that it was impossible to improve IE's security because of its popularity/market share.

      I guess the fanboys were wrong. Vulnerabilities do in fact follow poor design better than market share. So much for the whole "If Competing-product-X were as popular as Microsoft-product-Y then it would be just as insecure as the Microsoft one."

      OWN UP BITCHES YOU WERE WRONG ON THE INTERNET!

    3. Re:Not a shill at all by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Shill or not, he has a point. Security within Windows and Internet Exploder have improved over the years.

      How could it not? Alternate answer: Test by: Windows still exists as a product.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    4. Re:Not a shill at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like them or not, at least you don't see Google and Apple stooping to these levels.

      With a number like 379 and the above comment, I can only conclude that you've spent the last 5 years living under a rock, on Mars, with your fingers in your ears.

    5. Re:Not a shill at all by Captain+Hook · · Score: 1

      It's not even like it's hard to see through so I can't see what MS thinks it gains by paying for stuff like that.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    6. Re:Not a shill at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hah enjoy your troll downmod, douche

    7. Re:Not a shill at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, like it could get any worse.

      Seriously, silk purses and sows ears or polishing turds, take your pick.

    8. Re:Not a shill at all by roc97007 · · Score: 0

      I remember when I first got cable modem. (I was the first one in my neighborhood.) I fired up my Windows 98 box and before I could even connect to microsoft.com to download security updates, my machine was pwned. It could be worse. It could be like back in the old days.

      Mind you, I would like to see M$ go bankrupt in a way that forever ruined the careers of all involved, took all their money, burned their homes, sowed their land with salt, and insured that they never again could show their faces in the tech community. But even I have to admit, security is better now than it was. One could argue that this was not a hard target to hit, but there you go.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    9. Re:Not a shill at all by arose · · Score: 1

      Insta-owns were with us all the way up until XP added a firewall (because ports need to be open out of the box damnit!), not exactly ancient history.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    10. Re:Not a shill at all by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps not, just relating my own experiences. About that time I bought a software firewall, and about a year later a hardware firewall, which mostly fixed the problem.

      I don't slaver over every new version of Winders the company craps out; didn't switch to XP until SP1. Is that the version that included the firewall?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    11. Re:Not a shill at all by arose · · Score: 1

      I don't slaver over every new version of Winders the company craps out; didn't switch to XP until SP1. Is that the version that included the firewall?

      Never used XP myself, just had the misfortune of re-installing it from pre-SP2 (it's when they apparently re-did, as the other reply noted the capability was there, and enabled it by default) media a few times. Within less than a minute after connecting to the net (routers weren't standard accesories yet, so no NAT) you'd get the fucking restart countdowns. So yeah, up till 2004 MS was shipping a consumer opperating system with open ports (technically they did after too, just with a bandaid on top).

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    12. Re:Not a shill at all by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Within less than a minute after connecting to the net (routers weren't standard accesories yet, so no NAT) you'd get the fucking restart countdowns [wikipedia.org].

      I really don't get it. In some cases (smaller cable and dsl companies in the boonies) they're *still* connecting some poor retiree's PC directly to a modem and hence to the raw internet. My mother in law, for instance, just recently switched from dial-up to DSL (I know I know, DSL is passe now, but that's what was available in her area). She had some questions about the installation so called me. She said the installer wanted to sell her some security package I'd never heard of. I said no, I have my own products that I will install for her.

      I asked her to describe the arrangement, and she (being fairly savvy for a grandmother) described the bare-bones DSL modem connected directly to the PC! I said "turn it off! turn it off!". Fortunately it was the weekend. I rifled through my junk box, found an older D-link router, drove the 170 miles to her house, installed same. I checked her computer very carefully, found no infection. She got lucky. I have to wonder how many computers that company has attached to the internet that are now spambots or worse.

      Incidentally, I get an "attack log" mailed to me approximately weekly from her router, and man it looks like a war zone. Hundreds of DOS attacks, port probes, login tries a week. Her network gets attacked more often than mine.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    13. Re:Not a shill at all by arose · · Score: 1

      I woildn't be connected directly to the raw internet after XP SP2. Of course the firewall could have exploits... but so could the router. Unless your mother in law routinely opens ports on the firewall she shouln't be much more exposed than behind a NAT. The only advantage of a seperate (hardware level) filtering for consumers is that it would make it somewhat more difficult for unsuphisticated malware to phone home after infection, that and users who'd fidle and turn the Windows Firewall off.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    14. Re:Not a shill at all by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      One might say I overreacted a tad; the product of so many bad experiences, but on reflection, I don't think so. Agreed the router could have exploits, but I *know* my routers thoroughly, where in contrast, I'm never quite sure what Windows firewall is doing, except when it's denying service of some kind that I need...

      I think Windows firewall is a very necessary component, and I do keep it turned on (*mostly* turned on -- if you turn on every security feature you can't get anything done) but I don't trust ANY PC that isn't behind a natted firewall. The world in which we could have directly outward facing PCs is long gone.

      In the original phone call I had asked her to bring up CMD and do an ipconfig to see what kind of address she was assigned, and it was a class A private network address, so there was NAT going on further upstream. But I have no visibility of the vendor's architecture, don't know if other customers could touch her machine directly or not. It's just safer to provide your own security and be sure you can maintain it.

      Which kind-of begs the question, what do mere mortals do? Get pwned, I guess.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  4. Commercial Software Businesses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Security is not selling more copies of a product, but all the "executives" who can sign purchase orders will be willing to shell out money if they can see a laundry list of new features.
    Most companies have only one imperative: increase sales in the short run and feel good. Collect fat bonuses for the former. Security does not drive sales, does not increase bonuses.
    Spending 100 million dollars on security is puny as compared to the total revenue of MS, even in a single month. If they really wanted to be a leader in terms of security, they would have had to change their processes, tools and management approaches radically. Instead they did something to achieve security levels which were good enough to continue selling their stuff.
    Imagine writing software in a language which is inherently safe - MS did some research into that, but the technology never made it into Windows or Office. Just using an STL with checked vectors, strings and other containers would have immediately fixed thousands of exploits, but that would have meant changing the C++ coder mindset, which still is "my code will never overrun any array and bounds checks are a waste of precious CPU time". The truth is of course that even the best guys are sometimes tired or a little sick and that bounds checking only increases CPU load by about 10 %.
    This is all marketing talk - the only thing where MS is excellent.

  5. using admin account is more secure by todorb · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Windows users also weren't adjusted to having to work under non-admin account.

    by using a non-admin account for the last couple of years i learned that the system is much less secure this way.

    on windows the only program that could auto update was google chrome. firefox, flash, thunderbird, java, etc, all required manual update checks (which a non too computer savvy user, like my wife, won't do). firefox actually shows that there's an update available when chacking manually, but requires to be "run as administrator" to actually install it.

    same problem for the mac. system update checks won't happen automatically in non-admin accounts.

    eventually i got pissed of having to update everything manually and switched my accounts to admin.

    1. Re:using admin account is more secure by causality · · Score: 1

      Windows users also weren't adjusted to having to work under non-admin account.

      by using a non-admin account for the last couple of years i learned that the system is much less secure this way.

      on windows the only program that could auto update was google chrome. firefox, flash, thunderbird, java, etc, all required manual update checks (which a non too computer savvy user, like my wife, won't do). firefox actually shows that there's an update available when chacking manually, but requires to be "run as administrator" to actually install it.

      same problem for the mac. system update checks won't happen automatically in non-admin accounts.

      eventually i got pissed of having to update everything manually and switched my accounts to admin.

      Not having a centralized package manager to easily and automatically take care of these things would drive me crazy if I ever had to use Windows. I really don't know if Windows could ever have a proper Linux-style package manager able to take care of the entire OS and all applications by itself. Even the freeware applications often have licenses that don't explicitly allow you to redistribute them, making it extremely difficult or impossible to operate a comprehensive central repository. Each little application having to run its own updater demanding that you manually babysit it for no good reason is both redundant and cumbersome.

      That, and for some reason developers of Windows software just love stealing focus, popping up little balloons, and filling up the icon tray. All of those are distracting, tend to interrupt your workflow when you're trying to get something done, and create clutter. Obviously that's not an inherent issue with the OS, but does seem to be part of the culture surrounding it. On my Linux system running KDE, I can concentrate on a task for hours and never have anything pop up demanding my attention.

      This isn't something you notice and appreciate until you've gone a long time without ever touching Windows and then one day you sit down in front of someone else's Windows machine and try to get something done.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  6. Did It Occur To You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That Your Laziness could possible switch accounts for a minute to perform the updating ? Yes, security is a process which requires effort, ya know.

    1. Re:Did It Occur To You by s.petry · · Score: 1

      The same can be said for spell checking, and pressing the shift key when appropriate. Did I spot a trend perhaps?

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  7. "Trustworty" if you trust Micro$oft by Velska1 · · Score: 2

    It's true that Win 7 is a step ahead for windoze systems. It' practically workable! That is if you happen to like the way it works, because to tweak it even just a bit, you need to either be an expert or then buy a customising software.

    But "Trustworthy Computing" has much more heinous objectives than making your windoze box more secure. It wants to make UEFI standards so that no other OS's can be run on a machine that uses M$ OS. It wants to make listening to your own music dependent on the presence of a TPM chip that takes care of all the critical security stuff, like Digital Rights Management. I guess it's in their interest to suck up to MPAA, RIAA and book publishers?

    If George Orwell had had the vision, he'd have Micro$oft working for the Big Brother monitoring the people they don't like. I'm sorry, but I'll never again give M$ direct access to my hardware: it will always run in a virtual machine. I need to do it now and again to make sure that my stuff will also work with M$, specifically Internet Exploder. Granted, there are some pluses in IE9 over IE6, but they're negligible, basically eye candy.

    Get behind FOSS or get left behind, is what I say.

    --
    Every problem has a solution that is simple, easy and wrong. Selling our Liberty for a little Security is a much too de
    1. Re:"Trustworty" if you trust Micro$oft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah! this is the yeah of linux on the desktop

      loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

    2. Re:"Trustworty" if you trust Micro$oft by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      I guess it's in their interest to suck up to MPAA, RIAA and book publishers?

      That, or your completely unsubstantiated premises are wrong. And personally I can't see why a declining company, with a reputation as bad as MS, would entertain the notion of further alienating users by further locking down their platform against the users' interests, so that really just leaves the false premise possibility.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  8. Made up numbers by LoudMusic · · Score: 2

    The profession of inventing numbers has always intrigued me. The article says, "The hiatus cost Microsoft $100 million." Well, sure they can figure out how much money they usually make in a time frame, and how much money they didn't make during this time frame, and BAM you've got a number. But that number, $100,000,000, just seems a bit too ... round. It seems like someone said, "Hey, call the department that makes up numbers. We need one that's not so small it seems insignificant but not so big no one believes it. Not too cold, not too hot. Not too lumpy, not too soft. Something that's juuussssssttt right." Which is certainly a shorter route to 'news' than actually doing the work to figure out what it actually cost. It also sounds like something a 7 year old would say on the playground in a screaming match about fathers' occupations, "OH? Yeah?! Well! My dad works for Microsoft and they lost a hundred million dollars!"

    And how can they know that's what it would have been? Maybe that was the month, had they asked, that Apple would have sold out to Microsoft. But they didn't ask and no one will ever know. Would have been more than a hundred million dollars, for sure.

    Yes, wildly off topic, but it's the crazy shit that goes through my brain.

    --
    No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
    1. Re:Made up numbers by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      The profession of inventing numbers has always intrigued me. The article says, "The hiatus cost Microsoft $100 million." Well, sure they can figure out how much money they usually make in a time frame, and how much money they didn't make during this time frame, and BAM you've got a number.

      Well, back of the envelope, 8,500 employees, times 100/hr times three weeks ( 120 hours) and you have 102 million. Labor costs alone could easily account for it.

      So, if the average engineer spent three weeks searching, and the average engineer costs MS 100/hr in 2002, we hit that number easily. And probably more senior (and expensive) engineers worked longer than new engineers. And, given the extra annotations they added to those millions of lines to allow for automated vulnerability detection, I can see it taking that long... let alone writing the tools that used it.

      But that number, $100,000,000, just seems a bit too ... round.

      It's almost as though someone used rounding to make the number easier to talk about. Because it matters if it was 100M or 101,341,621 right?

      Or would you get upset if I said that the sun is 100M miles away? Or 500 light-seconds?

      I mean, both are wrong, but both are also right to the sig-figs I indicated.

      Accuracy != precision.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Made up numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      May I comment that there is a whole field of inquiry which uses rounded numbers and error bars, and reasonable estimates, which we refer to as science; particularly physics. Would you rather them tell you "Microsoft lost $141,860,394.9371138"?

  9. Secure Communication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "With telephony, we rely both on its availability and its security for conducting highly confidential business transactions without worrying that information about who we call or what we say will be compromised."

    Isn't it interesting how much has changed in the past 10 years. Now the U.S. government has given itself the right to warrantless wiretaps on all communications and almost every device on any of the digital networks gives them a back door. Telephony is as available as ever, but I don't think of it as secure any more.

    1. Re:Secure Communication by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      ... and you phone gets malware and either stops working or starts calling phone sex lines in Butfukistan.

  10. Re:Microsoft ----- Failed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, just that the well-written post of four paragraphs was written in less then 45-seconds of the original poster. Need not worry I'm a stupid American idiot, and I'm not aware of how the Neo-cons control all forms of media information.

    Ignorance Is Strength.

  11. Oxymoron alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Bill Gates" and 'trustworthy'...the greatest oxymoron of our time...

    or perhaps tied with:

    'Microsoft' and 'trustworthy'...
    only the illiterate burble this kind of junk.

  12. Results show it's not enough by dbIII · · Score: 1

    MS Windows may be far more secure but since we have levels of malware infection far exceeding what was observed ten years ago then it becomes clear that is not enough to solve the problem. Applications need to be more secure and some mind-bogglingly dumb choices are still being made which imply that a lot of developers are still thinking of single user machines that are not on a network.
    Nice advertisement above however it's a little misplaced. Can we get to details about what is happening now instead of hype pretending that it's all going to be better tomorrow please?

  13. how did a BIG PHALLIC LOGO get thru MSFT PR?!?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why, oh why, does the logo for TwC's tenth anniversary look like a dangling dong, or standard medical journal iconography for a penis and bladder??
    Even worse, it's got the outline of testicles underneath... with GREAT BIG BLUE BALLS...(wow, is that supposed to say something about the org?)
    And a yellow drip at the tip???? Is it peeing itself? Or maybe it's a giant orgasmic blast of security!!!!

    No kidding, I couldn't make this crap up. Go look at http://www.microsoft.com/twc in the funny purple box.

    How in the hell did this sort of Ariel+Phallus/LandOLakes-Boobies image get thru Microsoft PR review?

    What's the tagline for the next ten years? "TwC Next, UUUNNNH!" or maybe "TwC Next: It Burns!"

  14. You know what makes everything more secure? by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    Fewer points of failure. Yay Cloud!

  15. Give up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows fundamental design is so olde worlde and just fundamentally flawed they have no hope whatsoever of turning into a real and secure OS. As a media player and games loader, and support backplane for their Office product, it works quite acceptably. But it will never be 'real' software.

  16. Sykipot Trojan Variant Stealing DoD Smartcard Cred by microphage · · Score: 1

    "A new research report says variants of the Sykipot Trojan have been found that can steal Dept. of Defense smartcard credentials. link

  17. Untrue - Windows 2000 has native port filtering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So does XP, & Server 2003 also. It's often called "The Poor Man's Firewall" @ times online too, lol! GUI driven easy...

    HOW TO USE PORT FILTERING IN WINDOWS 2000/XP/Server 2003 (Sorry, no longer done this way in VISTA/7/Server 2008):

    1.) Start Menu
    2.) Connect To Item (on the right hand side) -> Local Area Connection (whatever you called it, this is the default, iirc) 3.) Open it via double click OR, right-click popup menu PROPERTIES item
    4.) Properties button on left-hand side bottom, press/click it
    5.) NEXT SCREEN (Local Area Connection PROPERTIES)
    6.) "This connection uses the followng items" (go down the list, to Tcp/IP & select it & /click the PROPERTIES button there)
    7.) Press/Click the Advanced Button @ the bottom Right-Hand Side (shows Advanced Tcp/IP Settings screen)
    8.) OPTIONS tab, use it & Tcp IP Filtering is in the list, highlite/select it
    9.) Beneath the Optional Settings, press/click the PROPERTIES button on the lower right-hand side
    10.) Check the "Enable Tcp/IP Filtering (on all adapters)" selection
    11.) In the far right, IP PROTOCOLS section, add ports 6 (tcp) & 17 (udp)
    12.) In the far left "tcp ports" list - check off the radio button above the list titled "PERMIT ONLY"

    Then add ports you want to have open (all others will be filtered out, & for example, I leave port 80,8080, & 443 here open, only on my standalone, non-networked home machine (for a HOME or WORK LAN, you may need to open up ports 135/137/139/445 for a Windows based network for file & print sharing PLUS enable NetBIOS over Tcp/IP in your network connection properties & ENABLE Client for Microsoft Networks & File and Print sharing too) - you may need more if you run mail servers, & what-have-you (this varies by application)) -> I leave the UDP section "PERMIT ALL" because of ephemeral/short-lived ports usage that Windows does (I have never successfully filtered this properly but it doesn't matter as much imo, because udp does not do 'callback' as tcp does, & that is why tcp can be DDOS'd/DOS'd imo - it only sends out info., but never demands verification of delivery (faster, but less reliable)) -> DONE!

    You'll need to reboot 2000, for sure, & it's optional for XP onwards (MS took a page from the MacOS X dept. on this one (they both took the BSD IP stack though, lol)).

    APK