Slashdot Mirror
Israel Faces Escalating Cyberwar
New submitter 9re9 writes "The NY Times describes what may be the beginning of an actual cyberwar between a pro-Palestinian group and Israeli companies, specifically El Al and the Tel Aviv stock exchange. From the article: 'A hacker identifying himself as oxOmar, already notorious for posting the details of more than 20,000 Israeli credit cards, sent an overnight warning to Israel's Ynet news outlet that a group of pro-Palestinian cyberattackers called Nightmare planned to bring down the sites in the morning.' Though the article is skimpy on technical details, the group appears to have engaged merely in a DDOS attack. Hamas praised the attack as opening 'a new resistance front against Israel.' Is this the first acknowledged cyberwar?"
Cyberwar is a construct of politicians and government contractors to justify spending lots of money. War is war. This is not war.
... at security classification for programming, networking, system administration, etc.
Or limits to who can take college classes. Or access web sites with that sort of information. Or own a non-registered compiler.
I used to love the cyberpunk novels about the underground cowboy devs outsmarting the global security nets. Now that we may be heading towards that sort of thing in reality, this old dev isn't quite so enthralled by the scenario...
Check your premises.
Big deal, call me when they can bring down the booking system or actual order processing system of the stock exchange. Saturating someones bandwidth or connection pool limits on their load-balancers is childs plays if they aren't specced to handle it.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
This has been going back and forth on pastebin.com for some time. The usual posting of claims and counterclaims. Lots of posting of alleged Israeli/Arab credit cards and facebook accounts, etc.
It's only now hit the media due to the Tel Aviv stock exchange being a target.
Israel has a very developed a very advanced cyberwarfare infrastructure, capable of both defensive and offensive attacks. And it's widely believed that they're the ones behind Stuxnet and other attempts at sabotaging Iran's nuclear program.
And that's just what they do in cyberspace. You get a LOT worse treatment from them if you happen to be an Iranian nuclear scientist.
Rest assured that Israel dishes it out at least as well as they get it. They're hardly innocent babes in the woods.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I'd rather see cyber war between Palestine and Israel than real war. The can DDOS each other all day as long as it keeps them away from car bombs.
Seems to me the likely way for the Israelis to handle a threat like this is to track down the attackers in meatspace, and kill them.
Taking down someone's web page is a cyberwar now? When two countries (not companies vs script kiddies) start destroying actual (not virtual, potential or imagined) property within each other's borders and killing actual people, with the goal of conquering or annihilating each other, then maybe it'll be a cyberwar.
The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never get involved in a covert war with an Israeli opponent".
Really. Those guys (and gals) dont play fair.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
when they're getting blown literally to pieces with real weapons. Might school them in reality.
Yes, and to what effect? Iran's nuclear program has, by all estimates, been accelerating with every attack. Which is, frankly, no great surprise -- nuclear powers don't get messed with nearly as much as non-nuclear powers, so one should expect nations that consider themselves under threat to become nuclear powers as soon as possible. Whilst the Libyan situation is extremely complex, absolutely no dictator is going to go away with the message that they should reform - dictators don't think that way, even when they do think. Dictators will see that Libya has been attacked by foreign powers with the exception of one period - the time when Libya had weapons of mass destruction.
Cyber warfare won't make any difference. Israel has made it clear in the press that it doesn't distinguish between targeted killings and targeted website attacks, which means we can expect to see people fall over from sudden lack of organic essentials like brains, a heart, etc. This will lead to physical reprisals and another spiral of attacks and revenge. Limited wars NEVER stay limited, again as demonstrated in Libya. It is the nature of warfare of any kind to escalate beyond the control of one or all parties involved.
In the end, cyber warfare or physical warfare, there are no winners. You lose less badly than your opponent, that is all. Sun Tzu himself stated that the best strategy for warfare is to not be in one.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Rest assured that Israel dishes it out at least as well as they get it. They're hardly innocent babes in the woods.
I'd like to nominate that as the understatement of the year.
Fixing a non working system is easy.
Corruption can't be fixed. If you want to cause real damage, you corrupt data, you don't delete it. Corruption, is very difficult to recover from, and the longer the corruption goes on unnoticed, the worse it is to recover.
Taking down a system denies the use of the system as an asset. Corrupting the data or processes on the system makes that system work against it's owner. It becomes worse than useless.
Deleted
If you're going to, as a nation, threaten your neighbours, arm yourself with nukes and the best military technology money can buy while oppressing and condemning a minority within your population (the Palestinians). If you're going to talk the talk about "peace" while continuing to invade and build on the occupied territories in dispute and supposedly under negotiation at peace talks. If you're going to take hundreds of millions in "Aid" dollars from someone your neighbours see as the "Great Oppressor".
Well, if you do these things, don't be surprised if cyber terrorism is the least of your worries.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Does Sun Tzu also advocate running in fear when war comes to you? Perhaps it's wise to be submissive, hmm? Sometimes you don't have a choice but to defend yourself. Often, the cost of doing so means killing the aggressor. Not to say Israel is innocent here, but Hamas is extremely gleeful when rockets kill innocent Israeli children.
Life is not for the lazy.
What they get are children suicide bombers exploding themselves in crowded public spaces. Israel doesn't descend to that level, not even close. No, they are not innocent by any means, and I am not justifying what they do, just pointing out how hyperbolic your claims really are (which is, in a word, "very"). They have also been repeatedly attacked by nearly every one of their neighbors, and many of them have expressed a desire to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth. Again, just to put things into the proper perspective.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
What they get are children suicide bombers exploding themselves in crowded public spaces. Israel doesn't descend to that level, not even close...
I wonder how hard you would have to come down on someone to make them think that blowing themselves up is a better choice than living. You'd have to make their lives a living hell, for sure. Probably have to take their land away from them, do all sorts of nasty stuff, and make sure that they just can't see any end to their suffering or the suffering of their children. If you take away their future, then I guess some people would chose to blow themselves up and take as many of the enemy with them as possible. Don't kid yourself, Israel has as much to do with creating suicide bombers as any country over there.
Sun Tzu also stated (paraphrased) that if you find yourself in a position where war is final option, you expend every ounce of your military force from the first moment and crush your enemy absolutely, demoralizing them and ending the conflict forever. The reasoning being that conservative encounters prolong the effects of war, ultimately causing more death and pain for both parties unnecessarily. You kill 1 million on day one to prevent the deaths of another 5 million over time.
But we're evolved enough now to believe in a kinder gentler politically correct warfare that extends for decades, kills millions, an improvrishes many more.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
You'd have to make their lives a living hell, for sure.
Not at all. You'd just have to feed them toxic religious bullshit and then look for weak-minded individuals to take advantage of. You know, kids, the mentally unstable, etc. Most suicide bombers are recruited when recruiters notice their mental state.
The people doing the recruiting, of course, are coldly calculating and sane. They probably don't even believe the religious bullshit they peddle to their victims, the suicide bombers.
you probably earned a genuine clearance that stays with you if you switch jobs!
That's one of the big rip-offs I've seen in recent years with regard to "security clearances". Many times, an employer will require obtaining a clearance, but they'll say it's "provisional", and add on a stipulation that the clearance is only valid for the length of time you're employed with them.
A good friend of mine applied for a (low paying) job handling government records, some years back (I believe it had to do with health records of retired military personnel), and they grilled her and all of her close friends for weeks. I remember getting a phone call where I was asked all sorts of things, such as if I was aware of her communicating regularly with anyone who resided outside the United States, if I had any background on why she got divorced, etc. etc. This wasn't even a top secret clearance ... merely a "secret" one. As it turns out, she was offered a better-paying job in the private sector while all this was going on, so she wound up not accepting it anyway. So all that digging they did was for absolutely nothing, since they said her not accepting the position automatically invalidated it.
I understand why some govt. agencies or contractors would be concerned that you're just going to apply there to obtain the clearance and then jump ship to a better job that demands you already have one.... but after you've offered that much information up to them and it's determined you not some sort of risk? It seems like a clearance is a clearance. If too many people get it and run, that probably means you're simply not paying enough.
Are you really saying that it's a weapons enrichment program, contrary to our own CIA and national security reports? Also keep in mind that civilian generation of nuclear power is within their rights under the IAEA?
I mean, if you have some evidence, please produce it. Fear doesn't count.
Also, at this point, with a foreign hostile nuclear power fighting wars of occupation on both sides of their country, I would want a nuke too.
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
As Israel has always done, and must always do, they will innovate their way out of the situation. Reducing the threat they face, while making a name for themselves in the cyber security market and profiting immensely.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
You'd have to make their lives a living hell, for sure. Probably have to take their land away from them, do all sorts of nasty stuff,
lets see, for hundreds of years longer, we have been doing this to the native americans ('indians').
when was the last time you saw an american indian suicide bomber, other than some caricature on tv? maybe an old western movie? but IRL? not really.
through out history, people have conquored others and land has shifted ownership. why is this somehow different? and if you go back farther in time, that land certainly has had many owners. to whom do you give it, then?
why stop there? so many other places in the world where X has taken Y. no matter what country you are from, in your history someone has taken someone's land or there is a dispute about its ownership in some way.
I fail to see how 'palestinian' is any more special and why this argument applies to them and not every other people who fought and lost?
israel fought many defensive battles, gained land and then gave it back. but that's still not enough, is it?
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
nuclear weapons enrichment program, whose sole end purpose is the creation of WMDs
Now this is just parroting bullshit western propaganda. Can you please finally get your head out of your arse? No fucking proof they are creating weapons grade fissile material or even want to do that, while Israel [gag, puke] threatens with nukes it really has.
is just like attacking a desalination plant, whose end purpose is clean water
Attacking desalinization plant is worse. That's actually mass destruction.
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
You're repeating an infamous misquote. In short, the American version of the phrase is "regime change." In other words, neither am I pretending Iran is a friend of Israel.
They DDOSed the web page. They didn't take down the stock exchange.
israel fought many defensive battles, gained land and then gave it back. but that's still not enough, is it?
To those that hate Israel? No it's not enough, because the only way they'll be happy is when every Jew and Israeli citizen(that includes arabs, and other minorities) are dead.
As it stands now, it'll be another war especially with the rising tide of Islamic supremacist screaming going on, and the brotherhood gaining a foothold. People like to say "oh they've changed, they're not blah blah blah pro-toss women back to the dark ages" yeah, give it a year and get back to me. Anyway, you can bet that within 5 years there will be border skirmish's, within 10, Israel will probably control the Sinai again.
Om, nomnomnom...
Israeli hackers took down the Saudi Arabian exchange website, and have also been leaking Facebook, Email, and CC information of Saudi citizens. Follow
Hannibal's posts on pastebin:
http://pastebin.com/u/hannibal
No fucking proof they are creating weapons grade fissile material or even want to do that
The Iranian government has released or allowed to be released photos of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad touring enrichment plants with many rows of centrifuges. The numbers on the floors below the centrifuges seem to indicate that there are hundreds or even thousands of centrifuges. Now, I'm no expert, but from what I've read the most likely explanation is that the centrifuges are being used in a cascade fashion to enrich substantial quantities of Uranium well beyond what is required for power plant operation (between three and five percent enrichment is required for use in commercial reactors depending upon whom you ask). Why would the Iranians want to do that if not to enrich enough material to construct a bomb? Natural uranium, properly enriched in sufficient quantities, can be used to construct a bomb of the "gun-type" design which, although crude, will be almost guaranteed to work even without extensive testing or experience with fission weapon design. There's really no other plausible explanation for the behavior of the Iranians in this matter, or at least none that I can see. Everyone knows what they (the Iranians) are doing. The Americans know it, the Europeans know it, the Russians know it and yes the Israelis know it too. Anyone who cares to look can see this. Why can't you?
A 19 year old aiming a DOS attack at a couple of websites is as much an act of war as if someone stood outside the airport or outside the stock exchange shouting that he really didn't like these institutions and maybe harrassing passers-by a bit.
Methinks Yoni Shemesh exaggerates. It's one thing for the NYT to publish that quote, but Slashdot submitters should know better than to take it seriously.
Everyone knows what they (the Iranians) are doing. The Americans know it, the Europeans know it, the Russians know it and yes the Israelis know it too
Yes we all see it. They're minding their own business. Which happens to be nuclear power. So, lets hear again why shouldn't Iran have nuclear power, military or otherwise?
I'll anticipate the answer: "Why, because they are Islamic fundamentalists and raving lunatics and they'll use it to wipe Israel off the map!!!!111!!"
Let's see, they are 1) Islamic fundamentalists - I don't see the problem, so is Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. (and to a much worse degree), but they're considered good friends of the US. I wonder why... Anyway, Islamic fundamentalism has never got in the way of being on the good graces of the West. 2) They're raving lunatics - well I wish the whole world was raving lunatic like they are, given they haven't invaded any country in centuries. Don't see why that would suddenly change now. 3) They want to wipe Israel off the map - ahh, now we're getting somewhere aren't we. But, in fact, that is completely baseless and pretty much amounts to deception. What the president of Iran said, was that Israel should disappear from the maps. The 'we'll wipe it off the map' thing was a (deliberate) deceptive translation from Farsi by MEMRI which is a shill for Israeli interests and provides translations of Muslim media, carefully tailored to their master's objectives. It is, by no means, an unbiased news source. And even if it was, their translation is wrong.
The question now is: Do you see what the US and Israeli elite are doing? Everyone knows. Anyone who cares to look can see this. They're leaving a pretty unmissable breadcrumb trail, and it passes through Afghanistan, Lebanon, Iraq and Pakistan. Except they're not using breadcrumbs. They're using cluster bombs.
I don't know if you're American, but if you are, they're using your tax money for it while at the same time claiming they can't pay for your healthcare. Anyone can see this. For a lot of people indeed, it was the last thing they ever saw. Why can't you?