Downloads of DoS Attack Tool LOIC Spike

wiredmikey writes "As Anonymous initiated what it said will be the 'largest attack ever on government and music industry sites' in response to actions taken by the Justice Department against operators of file sharing site Megaupload.com, downloads of a popular DoS attack tool have spiked. While the Denial of Service tool known as the 'Low Orbit Ion Cannon' (LOIC) was developed by the 'good guys' to stress test websites, it has been a favorite tool of Anonymous to take its targets offline via denial of service attacks. Interactions seen on Twitter and IRC, made it clear that the action against MegaUpload has sparked many more individuals to get involved in the online protests and download the LOIC to take part in the attacks and has resulted in a massive spike in downloads according Slashdot sister site Sourceforge."

Comments

initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

.... pulse launch

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok so here's the real question.

How many people have to be using it before the MafiAA and their paid goons in the government are required to stop calling it an "attack" and start calling it what it is, a civil protest no different from a lunch counter sit-in?

Re:initiating first post blast

[Shadow of Eternity]

Lunch counter sit-ins don't shut down power, water, and every storefront and business on the entire block that the lunch counter is on.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

And neither does a DDoS. Also boycotts sometimes target entire supply chains or industries so I'm not sure that your analogy is anywhere close to be reasonable either from accuracy or as a decent comparison. I'm generally against these actions but acting like they don't have common ground with various disruptive non-violent tactics is silly. They are illegal, non-violent protest tactics just like lunch counter sit-ins wear. The real question is do they have moral legitimacy and will they be able to move beyond the disruptive force into a force that changes policy and cultural attitudes like other non-violent disruptions did in the physical world.

Re:initiating first post blast

[shentino]

If a lunch counter sit in disrupted a politically well connected business it would be called an attack too.

Re:initiating first post blast

[shentino]

If a lunch counter sit in disrupted a politically well connected business it would be called an "attack" as well.

As far as the feds are concerned it isn't about how strong the attack is, but who the victim is.

Re:initiating first post blast

[sjames]

Nor has this.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

Please mod parent up !!

Re:initiating first post blast

[skoaldipper]

Why, in my day we DoS'd by clicking on slashdot links, and by golly, we liked it!

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

Because an attack is exactly what it is.
Read the analysis here http://bit.ly/zw1Sel

Re:initiating first post blast

[Dan541]

Plus they are not conducted anonymously. If people wish to make a point then they need to stand up for their cause not hide in the shadows like little cowards.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's an attack, you stupid fucking misanthrope.

Here, let me find your house, let me stand behind your car so you can't back out of your driveway. THIS IS A PROTEST, YOU IDIOT! I'm protesting you, and fuck your accusations that my intentions and grievances are unclear!

Oh, can't get to work, lost your job? I don't give a shit. I was exercising my free speech and right to protest, yo.

Either that, or you and all the other fucking mouthbreathers who think disruptively camping in public is somehow OK, who think that whatever problems they cause for other people are OK, are just fucking wrong.

I'm betting on the latter, personally. I don't think you understand one fucking bit what the difference is between the exercising of a freedom and the infringement of another's freedom. This is not a protest, this is an attack -- this is not a fucking boycott, a boycott is you and others choosing not to do business with a company. A boycott isn't you and others blockading the doors of a store so nobody can get in -- THAT, my friend, is not legal, and is an infringement upon the business owner's right to do business and my right walk in and do business with them. You don't get to walk in and claim moral high ground and run rough and loose over my and the business owner's rights, especially when you can't even begin to articulate how you being an obnoxious ass to me and my friend could help accomplish your goals which, I'm sure, are also only expressible through vague hand-waving and mumbling because YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO STRING TOGETHER A SINGLE COHERENT VIEWPOINT ON ANYTHING.
go hang yourself.

Re:initiating first post blast

[buddyglass]

In a lunch-counter sit-in the protesters were simply refusing to leave, and insisting they be treated like normal customers. When they were denied service they stayed there until service was provided. That is fundamentally different from organized efforts to shut down business tools such as websites. The analog would be if the lunch-counter protestors decided to show up before the business opened, surround it, link arms then refuse to let anyone (owner or customers) enter. In that case I would fully support their arrest, just as I support the arrest of the Anonymous actors behind this DDoS.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does "anonymity" have anything to do with it?

When hundreds of thousands of people showed up to hear Malcolm X or Martin Luther King, Jr. speak, was there some federal body requiring that everyone sign their name at the gate? Using facial recognition software to try to identify every single attendee? And if there were, would it not have been an infringement of the rights of free expression and association guaranteed by the Constitution?

The "anonymity" of LOIC is furnished in the same way. It is not true and full anonymity, as FBI attacks and raids on previous LOIC participaters have shown. It is merely the anonymity of being in a large group of otherwise non-anonymous people, such that it would either (a) take too much time and effort for the corrupt goons of the FBI to hunt them down or (b) be prohibitively selective to haul off only a few people of a few thousand, ten thousand, or hundred thousand or more to subject to criminal proceedings.

And yes, I'm posting as AC. My point: you don't have to have my name and face to see that what I am saying has value.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

Here, let me find your house, let me stand behind your car so you can't back out of your driveway. THIS IS A PROTEST, YOU IDIOT! I'm protesting you, and fuck your accusations that my intentions and grievances are unclear!

Here, let me find your place of business, where people's money is being stolen on a daily basis (say, Wall Street or the headquarters of Bank of America). Let me and a few thousand other people gather around it picketing. All of a sudden it's hard for the workers to get into the building, or perhaps down the street. But it's a legitimate protest of the business.

Oh, can't get to work, lost your job? I don't give a shit. I was exercising my free speech and right to protest, yo.

Funny thing here: if you work somewhere and your bosses are doing immoral or illegal things, perverting the law for their own devices, and destroying the lives of others, that doesn't make you morally acceptable. It makes you an accomplice.

Either that, or you and all the other fucking mouthbreathers who think disruptively camping in public is somehow OK, who think that whatever problems they cause for other people are OK, are just fucking wrong.

Lemme guess, you're one of those violent pedophile Teabagger "we came unarmed this time, if we don't get our way we'll be back with guns" types.

I don't think you understand one fucking bit what the difference is between the exercising of a freedom and the infringement of another's freedom.

I've been participating in protests and rallies, in my own free time when I can get it off of work, since the 1960s you stupid little shit. I know the difference, and where the lines are drawn, very well.

This is not a protest, this is an attack -- this is not a fucking boycott, a boycott is you and others choosing not to do business with a company. A boycott isn't you and others blockading the doors of a store so nobody can get in -- THAT, my friend, is not legal, and is an infringement upon the business owner's right to do business and my right walk in and do business with them.

This is a PROTEST, but not a boycott. A boycott is a mere subset of the various scope of protests that can occur. I presume that even you, you brainless Rush Limbaugh Wannabe, would agree that a protest can take the form of a sit-in, or a picketing, or a rally, or a boycott, or a leaflet campaign, or a poster campaign, or many other possibilities.

You don't get to walk in and claim moral high ground and run rough and loose over my and the business owner's rights, especially when you can't even begin to articulate how you being an obnoxious ass to me and my friend could help accomplish your goals which, I'm sure, are also only expressible through vague hand-waving and mumbling because YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO STRING TOGETHER A SINGLE COHERENT VIEWPOINT ON ANYTHING.

The point of this protest is to inform the MafiAA, the FBI, and others involved in this illegal action that it WAS illegal, perverts the law and morality, and should be reversed. Oh, I thought I was "too fucking stupid to string together a single coherent viewpoint on anything?"

Look in a mirror and check if you see a reflection, you pathetic leech upon the neck of society.

go hang yourself.

You first, you brainless dittohead loser.

Re:initiating first post blast

[HomelessInLaJolla]

Yes. Recruiting six hundred people to slam McDonald's daily and each order a small fry and a deep-fried fruit pie shall be categorized as not legitimate business.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Moryath]

Well said.

Re:initiating first post blast

[dead_cthulhu]

Perhaps they want (relative) anonymity because of draconian laws combined with third-world prison conditions in the US.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Jane Q. Public]

"Plus they are not conducted anonymously. If people wish to make a point then they need to stand up for their cause not hide in the shadows like little cowards."

I agree with with you in general, but there are important exceptions. Anonymity is an essential freedom, necessary for preserving democracy. If you can't make political "speech", for example, without everybody knowing who it is and possibly putting pressure on the speaker, then your freedom is doomed.

The Founding Fathers acted anonymously when they met to create the Declaration of Independence, because they rightfully feared for their lives should they be found out. Similar situations have occurred elsewhere, in other times.

So while in peaceful times, it may be right to consider someone who speaks anonymously a coward, in times of strife it may be a necessary tool in order to Do The Right Thing.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Dan541]

I agree with those exceptions. Anonymity is an important tool in political speech.

However it is also an important tool for criminals to attack the innocent. That is exactly what anonymous do, there is nothing pro-democracy about these attacks far from it. Who are these self appointed judge, jury and executioners? We don't know because they hide like common criminals.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Dan541]

When members of the Ku Klux Klan turned up to lynch blacks they were anonymous too.

When hundreds of thousands of people showed up to hear Malcolm X or Martin Luther King, Jr. speak, was there some federal body requiring that everyone sign their name at the gate? Using facial recognition software to try to identify every single attendee?

How exactly were the audience in anyway anonymous?
They're right there in the crowd if they act up they can be arrested by law enforcement. If anonymous want to be in the same boat as these people then they must identify themselves so that action can be taken against them. Otherwise they are noting more than criminals on the run.

Re:initiating first post blast

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they are cowards. we get that.

P.S yes I'm aware of the irony.
-----
Anonymous Coward

And now script kiddies everywhere

[Osgeld]

have 2 new search terms to punch into google after the word download!

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

So script kiddies are people who use programs made by someone other than themselves? Interesting.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Osgeld]

your pretty bad ass using a program that even wikipedia notes:

See also
      Script kiddie

but hey dont come crying to me when you use this years "aoHELL" to commit "terrorist acts" against "government facilities" and end up in a federal prison getting ass hammered by a guerrilla named Sydir.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

ass hammered by a guerrilla named Sydir

Uh no he's not a guerrilla. He's a gorilla. Better known as a nigger. Like all niggers he was in jail before the age of 30 (look it up!). Fucking crime ridden niggers.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Osgeld]

ah racist troll, dumb as the tripe you spit out, Sydir was Russian and very much a guerrilla k thanks you dumb twat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydir_Kovpak

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot. I don't even use the program or participate in any idiotic 'raids'. I just think it's laughable that people get called script kiddies merely for using a program that someone else made (unavoidable).

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

they get called script kiddies because they dont have the knowledge of how to write their own tools, and probably only have a basic (if any) understanding of how the tool works. It is not unavoidable, the person who WROTE the tool avoided it... the name comes from the fact that most of these people only know how to run a script, not what the script does, or how/why it works.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

ah racist troll, dumb as the tripe you spit out, Sydir was Russian and very much a guerrilla k thanks you dumb twat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydir_Kovpak

there is one thing dumber than any troll: the dumbass who feeds the troll.

oh and he's right. average black male in US is incarcerated by age of 30. i looked it up.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

My understanding is that someone ported some of the functionality of LOIC, hosted it somewhere and were getting unsuspecting folks to initiate quick hits with links put out on twitter.

Kinda clever, and evil. Not so much because it worked, but because now everyone that participated has some basis for plausible deniability. Not that anyone is shedding any tears for the MPAA either way.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh... not all black males in the U.S. are incarcerated at any point in their lives. Therefore, by definition there cannot be an average age at which that occurs. Did you fail 7th grade math, perchance?

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[macraig]

Boy, you're a mean Friday night drunk, aren't you?

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

uhh yes there can, assign them infinity. makes it look pretty bad doesn't it ? LOL

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

they get called script kiddies because they dont have the knowledge of how to write their own tools

This applies to most people. Is "script kiddie" an insult?

It is not unavoidable

Oh? So you write every program you use?

I know where the name comes from. I just think it's idiotic to call someone a script kiddie merely because they're using someone else's program.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

The median is a specific type of average which can handle infinities, and might well be what that statistic was computed using.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say the average age a black male is incarcerated is 30. He said the average black male is incarcerated by 30.

Learn 2 reading comprehension.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[guttentag]

I think he meant "sysdir," not Sydir, and was trying to shut these script kiddies down by enticing them to carry out a preemptive strike on their own "SysDir."

SysDir
(SYStem DIRectory) A folder or subfolder that contains the operating system. In Windows, it typically refers to C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Osgeld]

and then walk around like they are jesus because of it

where the fuck is my story on slashdot, I used MS Office today, I should be some counter movement hero!

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that's what we've called script kiddies since at least 1993.

Script Kiddie = Someone who calls themselves a hacker, but doesn't actually know what they are doing, just using tools made by others.

Back in the day, you could knock windows machines offline, steal the DUN passwords and then jack their accounts and do more mayhem using programs written by others. The peak was around the time of the Back Oriface utility... some dumb ISP's installed this scriptkiddieware onto their servers, and lolz were had.

Windows has never been particularly secure operating system, but back in the Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 era, (before PPP was standard in the DUN) the security was non-existant. To this day I never save passwords when prompted to. Likewise ICS(NAT) was a new thing in Windows 98, which allowed for sharing internet connections with networked devices. It was also possible to reverse this and dial-in to machines that had two lines (or a backup dialout line,) and share the internet connections.

Even as late as Windows XP SP1, there were still tools out there that can crash windows machines by simply connecting them to the internet without a firewall.

Overall, that was the "fun years", when you could claim ignorance. As of Windows Vista, Windows is actually secure enough to not become infected the second you plug it in. Nowadays, most "hacking" to take down sites consists of just DDoS, and someone with a single connection can't overload someone else willy nilly. You have to get an army to do it. You want to see a potential SOPA solution? Anyone caught downloading infringing material must have their internet connection degraded to 512K down/up, (some ISP's have 1Mbit plans) upon warning sent via email. Clicking on a link in the email to acknowledge reading it, then restores the connection, and then leaves a 24 hour window in which no more emails will be sent. This way if an IP address is found "participating in malicious or illegal activity" it can just be crippled once to get the attention of the subscriber. If they continue past that point, they are not guaranteed to keep their internet access.

I can assure you, especially with children, that all it takes is a warning every few months to get them to stop. But you have to add an embarrassing component to it, like DPI'ing the filename being transferred.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[cavreader]

They use tools the were developed by someone else and they also target unpatched software. One of their SQL injection attacks relied on published vulnerabilities detected and patched over 9 months ago at the time of their attack. Hopefully their attacks will result in better system administration processes.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh* It's like you're not even trying to get people mad over the shit you say anymore, are you?

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[symbolset]

The fun's not over. You can still crash a default Windows 7 install that's not protected by NAT or a firewall in seconds, and sometimes remotely administer it. IPv6 will undo the NAT and firewall protections by making all boxen universally addressable, and the fun will begin again.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

The number is about 2% right now.

So hardly average.

1 in 4 however collect social security. That number is staggering. It is not a good thing. Where for other races it is about 1 in 10. How do we fix this?

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

And just how are we going to find these people and prove that it is them? I hope there's plenty of due process involved in your 'solution'.

That's the problem. It's not so easy to find these people, and even if you have an ip address, that doesn't mean that it was them.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[SuricouRaven]

You might be surprised how weak some servers are. There are tools known as Slowloris and Anoctopus (They function in exactly the same way) that will disable a lot of servers with ease from even a low-bandwidth connection.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Jane Q. Public]

You leave my sysdir out of this. She's due to get out in another year; she doesn't need any more trouble.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Patch86]

I've no idea how to write a web browser, or a large modern website for that matter, but here I am using Firefox to browse Slashdot. Better call me a script kiddie!

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say the average age a black male is incarcerated is 30.

average black male in US is incarcerated by age of 30

You're obviously the same AC. What a pointless lie.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[hjf]

IPv6 will undo the NAT and firewall protections by making all boxen universally addressable, and the fun will begin again

So there's no firewalling for IPv6 right?
So you can't have a "middlebox" firewall like in the old days before NAT, right?
So you don't really know that NAT and Stateful Firewalls are two separate things and they just happen to come preconfigured when you buy a "broadband router", right?

Please, take a look at some firewall manuals and understand all the differences and terminology and you'll see why IPv6 doesn't need to be any less secure than IPv4 just because all machines have (potentially) globally routable addresses.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[AmiMoJo]

I wouldn't call this hacking, it is protesting. Civil disobedience, the equivalent of blockading the entrance to a company's offices to protest their actions or marching down a street and disrupting the traffic flow.

They may be anons and /b/tards but they are angry and have no other voice in this matter.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[AngryDeuce]

1 in 4 however collect social security. That number is staggering. It is not a good thing. Where for other races it is about 1 in 10. How do we fix this?

Education, which leads to increased economic security, which leads to better life choices, which leads to better health, which leads to less people collecting social security.

Diabetes, for instance, occurs in the African-American community at twice the rate it does in non-Hispanic Whites. They are also 30% more likely to die from Heart Disease and 40% more likely to have high-blood pressure. It stands to reason that there'd be a lot of S.S. claimants given the nature of these diseases and the associated health issues surrounding them, such as renal failure, heart failure, etc...

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[AngryDeuce]

If that's the case than I must be a leet haxor with this NoScript plugin...

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[ColdWetDog]

Why you empty headed animal food trough wiper, I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

No, that was an insult.

You moron, of course it's an insult.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Securityemo]

No, you aren't. Personally I think this is because of the violence/power aspect - when someone asserts power over someone else by hacking/ddosing/whatever then the gut instinct is to counterattack and put them down. In the case of 'Script Kiddie", by accusing them of being ignorant idiots and so forth, whereas some people apparently might respect an adversary if he's powerful or skilled enough. If you aren't asserting power like that then the put-down aspect doesn't enter into the equation.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[zoloto]

Too many people confuse NAT as being an actual firewall, which is what I think symbolset did.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Nemyst]

One must always remember that the premise of the Internet was that of a trusted network. All foundational technologies and protocols were never designed to deal with nefarious intent.

This is why we're still finding fundamental flaws at all levels of the web's structure.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone caught downloading infringing material must have their internet connection degraded to 512K down/up

LOL you mean upgraded. That's like two times my upload speed.

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[jc42]

I must be a leet haxor with this NoScript plugin...

Probably. It has become clear that to the media and political system, anyone with any understanding at all of computers is a "hacker", and therefore an evil criminal who must be stopped at all costs. And no trial for you on any charges; the very fact that you've shown minimal understanding of something inside a computer is sufficient to condemn you.

But it's not nearly the first time that the media (and the political system) has adopted technical terms and turned them into a put-down (social or legal) of the people who invented the terms. It's all part of the social chasm between us "nerds" and the rest of society that we were learned during our younger school years.,

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[identity0]

Doesn't the very nature of a DDOS tool require you to use software that's in common with other people, so that you're attacking the same target? Not that I want to defend anonymous's actions.

IIRC, the original definition of a script kiddie is someone who uses a pre-built 'attack' or 'security' tool to crack a security hole that they themselves did not find/create. Since LOIC is supposed to be just a DDOS tool, I don't see how it applies. Especially if it was originally made by white hats as a security tool - is someone who runs nmap a script kiddie?

Re:And now script kiddies everywhere

[peawormsworth]

and then walk around like they are jesus because of it

Exactly. Almost everybody runs software without understanding every aspect of the underpins. What separates "script kiddies" is the fact that they run other peoples software and then act like it somehow makes them more intelligent than those who dont have access to the tools they just found. When in reality they know that the sum of their pride can usually be summarised into a process of three sentences or less and can be followed by a uneducated pre-teen.

I took a LOIC in the ass

[Anonymous Coward]

and look what happened

Also I'm a Microsoft Shill, LOIC is developed by filthy linuxfags.

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[Osgeld]

"Low Orbit Ion Cannon (LOIC) is an open source network stress testing and denial-of-service attack application, written in C#."

God the AC's round here are getting fucking dumber

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[macraig]

That isn't saying much, given that the named posters I see here don't seem to be especially gifted or articulate.

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[Nerdfest]

... and the Linux version is called LOIQ (Low Orbit Ion Cannon in in Qt) ... you know, should any of us 'linuxfags' want to participate.

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[finkployd]

Am not!

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[geminidomino]

And linux naming strikes again...

Seriously, that's just bad luck. Half a page after the "script kiddie anti-defamation league" starts a mini-flamewar, and you go and point out that the linux version of the tool has a name that can be easily parsed as "Low IQ?"

Yeesh. You can't make this stuff up. :)

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure you didn't take it in the knee?

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you think it wasn't intentional? In fact, it was.

Re:I took a LOIC in the ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Are too!

Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, the tool does nothing to hide your IP. Average time in federal prison for this has been one year for using this tool. Lot of buttrape going to be happening in the future.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[stanlyb]

You know, americans are only 300 millions. The whole population is about 7 billions. Do you think that only USA citizens did it? And even if you are able to, could you imprison 7 billion?

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[__aaqvdr516]

Elections are coming up, don't give them any ideas for lofty goals that they might try to implement! I've seen them debate, they're all batshit crazy enough to try and do it.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[AHuxley]

Your DA needs to build up his/her cyber crime numbers before moving to new levels of politics?
Sorts the ip's and finds all the middle/low class locals. Makes sure none are too rich or connected in some way - then the morning raids are set.
Thats the strange thing about all this - skilled hackers are usually turned or have life 'issues'.
This all seems like a huge trap with ip's been in the open, waiting to be tracked.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this a "trap?" The people doing this are breaking the law, and for no good reason at all. I wonder how many of them read the indictment against Megaupload. Mega * was guilty of a lot more than just shameless copyright infringement.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[AHuxley]

A "trap" as in going from http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/01/social-radar-sees-minds/ - been watched
to been a COINTELPRO (Counter Intelligence Program) like trap - 'lets download tools and ..."
or http://cryptome.org/0006/anonymous-wabc.htm
http://cryptome.org/0006/anonymous-mused.htm

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[Lumpy]

Gingrich will nuke someone if he thinks it might get him some strange.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mega * was guilty of a lot more than just shameless copyright infringement.

They're innocent until proven guilty. Why do you assume guilt?

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[EdIII]

I've seen Gingrich on the news before. I think the threat of a nuclear weapon is the only thing that increases his chances of getting some strange to "possible".

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[symbolset]

With the javascript implementation you would have to prove that the browser user was deliberately participating rather than innocently exploited while viewing a completely innocent page. Good luck with that.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[symbolset]

If you're holding out for a candidate that's not "fucking crazy" or "internet ignorant" I'm afraid you're going to have to set this election season out. Probably the next few too.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[Anonymous Coward]

WAT

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[dissy]

you would have to prove that the browser user was deliberately participating rather than innocently exploited while viewing a completely innocent page

Not really. A school teacher was convicted due to a classroom computer being infected before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Connecticut_v._Julie_Amero

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[symbolset]

"the conviction was vacated on appeal."

Do you know what these words mean?

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[gmhowell]

Gingrich will nuke someone if he thinks it might get him some strange.

Haven't you seen a picture of wife number three? Isn't that strange enough?

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[gmhowell]

If you're holding out for a candidate that's not "fucking crazy" or "internet ignorant" I'm afraid you're going to have to set this election season out. Probably the next few too.

Shit, and since Michelle Bachmann dropped out, I also cannot choose 'all of the above'.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[symbolset]

"Alfred E Newman", "Anybody but this collection of fucktards" and "No" are still available write-in options. Also "Potatoe" for those of a classical bend.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[hairyfeet]

They took away her teaching credentials so she will get to spend a good couple of decades paying off student loans while working at the Mickey D, don't sound like too much of a win to me.

Sorry to burst anybody's "the truth will set you free' bubble but if a prosecutor decides to fuck up your life because you're the wrong color, they have an agenda, or hell just because its Tuesday you're pretty much fucked even if you do win. i should know one of my old HS buddies lost a house that had been in his family four generations thanks to a bitch prosecutor that had an agenda. he and his wife were going through a nasty divorce, turned out the bitch had been fucking around with a couple of different guys and things were going bad for her so she got her 15 year old daughter to say he grabbed her tits. everybody knew it was bullshit, even the investigator came out and testified FOR the defense because the 15 year old kept changing her story, but it turned out the prosecutor had been raped in college and decided that "if you have a penis you're a rapist" so she drug that shit out nearly 3 years. of course my friend "won" in the end, jury didn't even take 20 minutes to find him not guilty, but the legal fees completely broke him and cost him the family home and left him nothing to fight the bitch in the divorce case so she took his son and left the country with one of the guys she was screwing. Now he'll never see his son ever again and that home that had been built by his great grandpa is gone.

So don't think because you are right or innocent means jack shit anymore, as he found out legal fees can hit a couple of hundred thousand without a bit of trouble so unless you got stacks of cash to fight back pretty much they can stomp all over your life at ANY time. And if you think a public pretender will save your ass you might want to look at the rates of conviction for public pretenders VS lawyers you hire, last i check most public pretenders were looking at an average 90% conviction rate, hell i think the odds are better representing yourself than with a public pretender, at least in my state. that is the problem with the system in a nutshell folks, the rich and the state can stomp all over the average Joe simply by dragging out the case until they go broke. i hope everybody that plays with this gots lots of money they are just sitting on, or plenty of assets they can sell, otherwise innocent or no probably won't make a damned bit of difference.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am seriously considering writing in a vote for "Kodos" this year.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[AngryDeuce]

Kodos is a union shill and terrorist sympathizer! Vote for KANG!!

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[AngryDeuce]

What about the other side of the coin? The person that ain't got shit worth taking? It's hard to penalize someone living with 3 other people in a shitty apartment, driving a mid 90's beater buick, working at Walmart.

Jail time for something like this will be negligible; the real pain comes in the associated legal fees, and when you have like no assets, there ain't much to lose. The average person doing this doesn't give a fuck about their credit score, or their mortgage payments, or what their boss is going to think. They fucking hate their boss' guts.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[dissy]

In this case it means a $100 fine + lawyer fees, permanent loss of her career and teaching credentials, and thus the future ability to pay that fine (not to mention bills), as well as majorly restricting her future employment to that only requiring "High school graduate" level of education.

Wikipedia is once again misrepresenting the facts if that is worded to imply she was found innocent and nothing further happened to her.
I'd correct it myself but odds are 99 to 1 the moderator who assigned themselves that page will just revert my change and the citations added, so it's not worth the work

But my point was to counter your statement, that one is assumed innocent and someone somewhere must prove they left the javascript page open on purpose, and simply claiming they didn't know and/or was being exploited is enough to get them off the hook.
It just simply does not work that way.

Here is a case where the same situation happen: Computer was infected, it was doing things outside of her control, all she could do was turn the computer off but the students kept turning it back on (Likely to see the porn, must be pretty scarring to their fragile little minds while they were seeking it out) and the teacher faced a max of 40 years in prison.

The computer expert testimony even stated in court that the infection was a drive-by-download and so not her fault, and other than what she did (turn it off) she couldn't have been expected to do anything further that would have been required to fix it.
The judge agreed and tossed out as many of the charges as he could, and hoped the prosecution would give her a new trial or let her off the hook.
If you are at all familiar with Windows and its wonderful security layers, you have no doubt even seen this happen and perhaps have been asked to magically fix it up without a reformat and reinstall. I've had it happen to friends, family, and coworkers many many times. Even the ones of them that do look at porn online, I am pretty certain they only want it to show up when they go to open it, not every 30 seconds automatically covering the desktop ;}

Anyways, about letting her off the hook? That didn't happen, and the prosecution still pressed onward. They blackmailed her into plea bargaining with the threat that in the new trial they would get their 40 years of prison time and forced her to pay them $100, the lawyers tens of thousands of dollars of fees, and forfeit her teaching credentials, thus to give up 4-6 years of her life as wasted (aka college) and her entire future career working as a teacher (aka all the "big bucks" that teachers make, which she trained so long to do)

SO now this poor innocent woman has lost nearly a decade of her life total over this (6 years of schooling wasted, 4 years for the trial wasted), an amount of money in the 5 digit range, and in the job market she is effectively at "high school graduate" level now, when it comes time to base her pay and judge her qualifications.

In this case, that is exactly what "vacated on appeal" means.

I just ask that anyone thinking of running this tool - think about the above case and how fair and balanced our legal system is, before doing it.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mega * was guilty of a lot more than just shameless copyright infringement.

LMFTFY: Mega * was accused of a lot more than just shameless copyright infringement.

And yes, I have read the allegations. Pretty much making money doing the above is what they all rest on.

Re:Is it worth a year in a hellhole?

[hairyfeet]

Wow, thanks, I so rarely get to use this in a sentence...WHOOSH! You are missing the "if the prosecutor has an agenda' part friend as they can pile on charges for even the lamest thing if they feel like it so suddenly that 6 months turns into 9-14 in PMITA prison. look at the case I cited, she came up with every charge she could possibly think up because "if you have a penis you're a rapist" so she had everything from simple assault to child endangerment. By the time she was done if he would have had a public pretender he was looking at damned near 40 YEARS in prison friend.

You have to remember pal the law books for just your state could literally crush you under their weight, add in local and fed and you have the weight of a greyhound bus they can drop on your ass. lets see with computers there is theft of services, hacking, possible terrorism charges, hell those three right there slapped together you are looking at a cool dozen, remember friend big numbers helps Mr/MS Prosecutor show he/she is 'tough on crime" and the more they can pile on you the more likely you are to plead so piling that shit on is SOP.

Umm...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're probably going to get caught if you don't know what you're doing.

Re:Umm...

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole point of LOIC and similar tools (including nmap, when used this way) is, that you never do is alone but always with so many others, that it becomes impossible to track them all down.
Like a fish swarm of a million fish. The shark doesn't catch them, because it becomes impossible to focus on one. They're everywhere!

If you do it alone, you're, of course, an idiot. Since even with the use of the famous seven proxies, it couldn't even get a single server down. Alone, the only way is to use a botnet. (E.g. the computer network of the company that fired you, where they happened to have not only a large self-owned backbone, but also the admin password for all 1600 boxes in a text file on a Windows share. ;)

Also, what's all that shit about "script kiddies". The whole point of programming is, that you solve a problem once, so one doesn't have to re-invent the wheel. Anyone who writes his own LOIC just so he won't be called a "script kiddie", is an idiot. LOIC is very basic, yes. Basically it's just a flooder. That's it. But if that's what you need, then that doesn't say a thing about you being a script kiddie or not.
So this is a really stupid non-sequitur, whose only point is, for some 13 year old losers here to act as if they are something better and "l33t h4x0rs", even though they probably didn't even know what a DDoS attack is in the first place.

Re:Umm...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's fine too. Clog up the justice (lol) system too.

And not a single fuck was given that day.

Re:Umm...

[Hentes]

If you DoS from your own machine, you don't know what you are doing.

Re:Umm...

[AngryDeuce]

With the sheer number of unsecured networks within a few block radius of my house (according to the wifi scanner on my phone as I drove my mother around to look at Christmas lights a month or so ago), it would be trivial for me to go wardriving and participate via someone else's connection completely.

There was even a handful in my apartment building within range of my unit until recently, but it seems someone finally taught them how to password protect a wireless access point. Pity, it was a good diagnostic tool to see if my internet issues were just me or building-wide before I spent an hour of my life on the phone with fucking Charter...

Those downloading LOIC...

[wbr1]

Those now downloading LOIC are not Anonymous.

Seriously.. their IP has been logged!

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[wisnoskij]

I wonder if it is all people from outside of the USA? and I wonder if America would have any luck extraditing thousands of people for a single crime.
I don't imagine that anyone non anonymously doing this in America really has a chance to get off easily. Something like this they are likely going to classify as terrorism.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Lunoria]

But, downloading LOIC is not a crime (Yet). Therefore why would Sourceforge hand over the IP requests if asked?

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[future assassin]

So what i they log half of the US? Concentration camps?

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

If they have any sense, they're doing it behind an anonymous proxy/tor...

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

So they're not considered "associating" or "assisting" a terrorist organization under this year's NDAA, and sent off to cuba without a trial?

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[AHuxley]

No, they might just watch your search logs for a few weeks and then sort you into a weapons, drugs, crime or porn raid.
Camps get messy - too many smart people mixing, talking, making new friends, demanding lawyers, medical care, a few escapes with images, deaths, guards having fun...
You will see camps when less than 1% of the population is protesting - a big number for the USA.
Until then its very personal raids with courts or black sites.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

So?

Let's say, for arguments sake, 100,000 people download it in the US and use it against the websites currently being hit by Anon. in response to the MegaUpload takedown. Are the authorities really gonna charge 100,000 people with DDoS or whatever the equivalent crime on the books is, most likely kids mind you, and drag them into court? I would LOVE to see that happen, and the resulting reaction from the Internet community, and Anonymous. Please, law enforcement agencies, and DOJ. PLEASE, do that!

They know full well they aren't going to flood the court system with that many fresh cases that ambulance chasers would LOVE to make a name for themselves on pro bono.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

no, they go all tiananmen square on a few and it shuts the rest up

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

there is legislation that gives the US military to engage, apprehend, and detain persons both citizens and non citizens for any reason, or no reason at all.

yes, i believe that they would.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[EdIII]

No, they might just watch your search logs for a few weeks and then sort you into a weapons, drugs, crime or porn raid.

Gee.. I wonder what the average choice will be?

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[EdIII]

That's absolutely hilarious.

The whole idea of DoS is to flood the server with so many packets it cannot handle them all. TOR is so fucking slow you might as well be shunting the output of Hoover Damn through a silly straw.

Not to mention the exit node for the connection is what is going to get picked up, and that is unlikely since TOR won't use 100% of the upstream.

You just turned the beam from the Death Star down from "destroy" to "light tan".

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because not handing over the list of IPs is a crime when the request is accompanied by the required documents.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[symbolset]

LOIC has a javascript implementation where you can load a seemingly innocent page and then go to bed. Your browser will then hammer the affected sites 100,000 times an hour - and it's not your fault - because you can't be expected to know that a simple page can do that.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[SeaFox]

Yeah. Instead, one person outside the U.S. should download it. Then, he should upload it to some webserver that has mega amounts of bandwidth so he can share it with all of them in a way the authorities can't track easily.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[KlomDark]

> you might as well be shunting the output of Hoover Damn through a silly straw

That's a pretty funny mental image.

I would have gone with garden hose, but mine wouldn't have been as funny...

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Jedi Alec]

Because a judge signs a piece of paper saying they have to, following claims by a district attorney that tools used in a crime were obtained through Sourceforge.

Buying a gun is not a crime either, but when it's used in a robbery they will try to find out who bought it.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, this is just illegal in every country that has ratified and implemented the cybercrime convention (emphasis mine):

Article 5 - System interference

Each Party shall adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to establish as criminal offences under its domestic law, when committed intentionally, the serious hindering without right of the functioning of a computer system by inputting, transmitting, damaging, deleting, deteriorating, altering or suppressing computer data.

And the safeguards and scope limitations in Articles 14-16 do not protect "anonymous" in any ratifying country either. Maybe the jurisdiction article helps:

Article 22 - Jurisdiction

1 Each Party shall adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to establish jurisdiction over any offence established in accordance with Articles 2 through 11 of this Convention, when the offence is committed:

a in its territory; or
(...)
d by one of its nationals, if the offence is punishable under criminal law where it was committed or if the offence is committed outside the territorial jurisdiction of any State.

2 Each Party may reserve the right not to apply or to apply only in specific cases or conditions the jurisdiction rules laid down in paragraphs 1.b through 1.d of this article or any part thereof.

(...)
5 When more than one Party claims jurisdiction over an alleged offence established in accordance with this Convention, the Parties involved shall, where appropriate, consult with a view to determining the most appropriate jurisdiction for prosecution.

So depending on how the ratifying countries implemented the convention into law there may be a way out through 1d. But 5. makes me doubt.

However IANAL.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

More like setting it to "tickle."

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Ginger Unicorn]

He's talking about downloading LOIC, not using it

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Kjella]

No, they'd only take some and make examples out of them. You have to make them feel that no fish is too small to risk getting caught. I'm guessing a bigger reason they would not is that it's probably running on many compromised machines/botnets, so they'd have to investigate a lot for every conviction. On a completely off-topic but related note, that's where I think the police here in Norway is total fail. Often they go out and say there's no resources to prosecute shoplifting and petty theft. When you put a hard limit on it like that, of course those types of crime will explode. No, you practically can't do every case but you must always do some cases, you can't just deal from the top and say oh our budget ran out at thefts of $X dollars, anything below that is case closed.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

WHAT ?

Explain this to me like I am a 5 year old. I go to said site, download some shyte. I put this shyte on botnetted comps. These comps do the DoS attack. Sure, I downloaded the shyte, but there is no proof I used it, unless they find out in a different way, in which case the logging you talk about probably was not very useful (too many targets, and some downloads could be very difficult to trace). So how exactly is my attack not anonymous ? Why can I not be hiding in the masses of script kiddie downloaders ?

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, it could be "planted" child porn or something, don't taunt fate.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[hoggoth]

Of course not. They will pick 5 random participants and completely F up their lives as a visible warning to all the sheep.

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

Downloading it anonymously is easy. Really. Use tor, any of the thousands of free proxies. Have a friend send it.

USING it anonymously... well... I mean, it connects your desktop to a C&C on an irc server and then starts dumping massive requests.

You could VPN/Proxy/whatever that connection...but that would just DOS your VPN host too... so...yeah...no clue on how to anonymously participate in a basic packet-storm DDOS...

Re:Those downloading LOIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

Good DoS attacks don't require high packet counts at all. The trick is to make the backend servers do more work than they should.

They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[DanTheManMS]

After Operation Payback (the widespread use of LOIC against Bank of America, PayPal, and other entities that refused to process payments to Wikileaks), the FBI got involved. Raids were made. A freshman student at my own college was raided and had all his electronics taken away, and that was just for passively being an operator in an IRC channel that coordinated the attacks, not even running the tool himself.

As an above poster said, LOIC is not anonymous. I hope these script kiddies aren't so foolish as to make the same mistakes twice.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

Being an IRC operator of a channel coordinating the attacks is not being "Passive" about them, he is an active participant even if he didn't use the tool himself.
That's like saying a General in a war is passive, because they don't pull the trigger.

It's hard to make the same mistake twice, with all your equipment confiscated.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

He may have been an IRC operator of a channel which happened to be used to coordinate the attacks, not necessarily a channel solely intended to coordinate the attacks. The grandparent's post doesn't make that clear.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[kayditty]

well, this whole thing is a joke and all of these guys are a bunch of clueless newbies, no doubt. but proxies? really? you don't DoS with proxies. then again, you don't use stateful protocols either. this whole thing is laughable.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[DanTheManMS]

I was kinda using the "Good luck, I'm behind seven proxies!" meme with the subject line there, not necessarily trying to be technologically accurate, heh.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[kayditty]

you can argue that case, at least if the channel is dedicated to that one cause. but intent is thought, not action. are we prosecuting people for their thoughts? anybody can join an IRC channel, presuming it's not keyed or invite-only, and anybody could even be accidentally made an operator. that's probably not likely, but just because someone is an operator somewhere doesn't mean they condone something other people around them are doing.

should they make an active effort to stop them? I don't recall signing up to be a police officer.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

Being the operator of an IRC channel and getting busted is also not the same as using LOIC and getting busted.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

what's your point?

LOIC is not anonymous, nor is that even a valid statement or even anything other than a strawman.

The LOIC is the LOIC.

The question is - are people hiding their identities via proxies, VPN, etc? Or are they simply thinking running the LOIC isn't going to get them in trouble.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[subreality]

I hope these script kiddies aren't so foolish as to make the same mistakes twice.

Fuck that. I hope they do. DOS attacks are the lamest, most degenerate hacktivism ever. It doesn't change anyone's minds, it doesn't help create a better system, and it just causes damage in the process. The only thing it accomplishes is sating some primal desire for revenge, so I hope they get filtered out of the pool so the rest of us can go back to creating instead of defending.

You want to try to make things better but you're feeling disenfranchised? Subvert the system. Work on decentralized DNS replacements. Work on anonymity networks. Work on improving Bitcoin to make it a serious contender. Generate content and release it for free.

Don't destroy. Create.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called civil disobedience. With out it you'd still be riding at the back of the bus and drinking out of crappy water fountains.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[MMORG]

My kingdom for a mod point. Great post!

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

It's already modded to 5. Why I don't know, it belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the issues involved.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[subreality]

Civil disobedience is flagrantly ignoring a law because it is unjust. If they ignore you, the sense of the law erodes. If they arrest you, you become a martyr. Either way you win. MegaUpload, The Pirate Bay, and all the positive things I mentioned earlier are civil disobedience.

DOS attacks aren't like refusing to go to the back of the bus... They're sugar in the gas tank. Anonymous vandalism isn't going to generate sympathy from your fellow citizens.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[subreality]

Explain it to me, then. What don't I understand?

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

But who decides if it is unjust?

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't destroy. Create.

Don't destroy. Create.

You need to be sending that message to the people sitting in government and industry, and NOT to a bunch of freedom loving, disenfranchised geeks.

Unfortunately when you are dealing with a bully the only way to stop them is to fight back. The day of protest only delayed the inevitable. And all those things that you are talking about; bitcoin and proxies, can just as easily be destroyed by the copyright lobby as all those things proposed by SOPA and PIPA.

Government and industry are so far being much more aggressive and are doing a lot more damage to the Internet than Anonymous. The major difference is that Anonymous at least believe that they are doing the right thing.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[MMORG]

No, that was a congratulatory comment. I complete agree with what you said.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[lightknight]

More along the lines of being the owner of a cafe that the rebels of a current government frequent.

Being in the same room as other does not equal complicity in the crimes perpetrated.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

DOS attacks aren't like refusing to go to the back of the bus... They're sugar in the gas tank.

Sugar in the gas tank causes permanent damage.
A DOS is the internet equivalent of a sit-in.
Or rather, sit-ins are pre-internet denial of service attacks.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[lightknight]

The people who write the history books, a hundred years from now.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

Sugar does not do much, maybe clog the fuel filter, certainly not any permanent damage

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/sugar-in-gas-tank.htm

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[subreality]

But who decides if it is unjust?

I have my own well-considered system of ethics, but as you imply, we will never see a universal consensus. I'll skip past the last few millenia of philosophical debate and take you right to the time-tested standard:

Whoever wins in the end.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[westlake]

If they ignore you, the sense of the law erodes. If they arrest you, you become a martyr. Either way you win.

Or maybe you just go to jail when the Dotcom bubble bursts.

A conviction against Kim Schmitz (or one of the other listed MegaUpload associates) means that more than $175 million stashed away in 64 bank accounts around the world becomes U.S. government property.

Some of the automobiles listed for forfeiture include an amazing mix of exotic vehicles:

2008 Rolls-Royce Phantom Drop Head Coupe
2010 Maserati GranCabrio
16 various modern Mercedes-Benz vehicles
(including many CLK and CL series)
1989 Lamborghini LM002
1959 Cadillac Series 62 convertible
1957 Cadillac El Dorado
Harley Davidson motorcycle
Von Dutch Kustom motor bike
Two 2010 Mini Cooper S coupes
2010 Sea-Doo GTX jet ski

What MegaUpload founders stand to lose

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[andydread]

according to an episode of Mythbusters sugar does not work. Bleach on the other hand....

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[darknb]

"DOS attacks aren't like refusing to go to the back of the bus... They're sugar in the gas tank. Anonymous vandalism isn't going to generate sympathy from your fellow citizens."

What is this silliness? A DOS attack does no damage to any computer equipment at all. A DOS attack is even MORE pacifistic then going to the back of the bus. In real life a bunch of people show up to protest a place and close businesses by blocking traffic. A DOS attack does the same thing except the stakes are even lower because there is no chance of a sudden riot...

If anything we should be complaining that these kids aren't out in the streets doing REAL property damage. :D

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[subreality]

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kim's no one to love. He's a sleazeball as greasy as they come, and I have no delusions that he's doing this for any altruistic reasons.

But at least he's doing something interesting.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[jasomill]

Civil disobedience is flagrantly ignoring a law because it is unjust. If they ignore you, the sense of the law erodes. If they arrest you, you become a martyr. Either way you win. MegaUpload, The Pirate Bay, and all the positive things I mentioned earlier are civil disobedience.

Thanks for mentioning this. I'd even go further and emphasize that, in practicing civil disobedience, one should welcome arrest, or at the very least not go out of one's way to evade it. In the words of Thoreau, "under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison."

In my view, the MegaUpload case isn't even arguably civil disobedience. First, the accused maintain they did not violate any laws, unjust or otherwise. Second, assuming they did, and assuming they believe the laws are unjust, it's quite hard to maintain the moral high ground while also using massive financial gains from violating "unjust laws" to fuel incredibly extravagant lifestyles.

In contrast, The Pirate Bay is a reasonable example. It's overt purpose is to wantonly violate what it believes are unjust copyright laws and to deny media companies the revenue they use to preempt discussion of copyright reform, and its maintainers have used whatever proceeds and attention they have gained from running the site to fuel further political action, not a fleet of expensive cars.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[subreality]

Thanks, that's an excellent point.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Arancaytar]

It is correct that anyone participating in this takes a risk of being raided, charged or even jailed. However, out of a large group of attackers, only a small fraction got into trouble. It's similar to using BitTorrent, where you may be monitored and tracked down at any given time, but it's very unlikely. (Except, of course, for the part where BitTorrent users get slapped with a settlement fee instead of going to jail.)
These people are kids; they do risk evaluation differently.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, wouldn't it be better if they didn't and used better means of protest or didn't participate at all if it's so a dumbass thing to do?

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

And all those things that you are talking about; bitcoin and proxies, can just as easily be destroyed by the copyright lobby as all those things proposed by SOPA and PIPA

Good luck destroying bitcoin. Oh wait I know, maybe they should get the guys who 'destroyed' bittorrent to do it!

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[rtfa-troll]

A DOS is the internet equivalent of a sit-in. Or rather, sit-ins are pre-internet denial of service attacks.

No they aren't. The key part of the sit-in is the media event. You show up in place. You make it visible you are there. You show the police arresting you; hopefully in a way which looks brutal in the media but doesn't leave any permanent damage.

A DOS attack fails because the public can't see videos of the person actually standing up for what they believe in. Also because download and run is too easy, compared to actually having to show up in a physical place.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[misexistentialist]

massive financial gains from violating "unjust laws" to fuel incredibly extravagant lifestyles.

These guys are like drug dealers, converting cash from a shady business into assets, but flashy cars are not a sign of "massive" wealth. True, like dealers they work within the system rather than heroically challenge it--but we all know there is no challenge possible. TPB guys are somewhat insulated by the fact that they expose users to lawsuits and connection terminations when they upload, but their failure will ultimately be complete.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Nemyst]

As a victim of many a DOS because of a particular few so-called "hackers" who thought it fun, I can definitely tell you a DOS is not the equivalent of a sit-in. It can cause permanent damage to a website, especially if it is not a large one, and to its owners and administrators.

Denial of service attacks are filthy and abusive and should be dealt with swiftly by justice. It is unfortunate that most attempts go unpunished. If you want to see how to protest, look back at wednesday's blackout.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Aighearach]

Your fellow citizens!

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Not all sit ins result in arrests. I didn't see any arrests at the 2+ week long pro-union sit-ins at the Wisconsin capitol building and yet they got tons and tons of sympathetic press coverage. And "too easy" - seriously? Isn't that the whole point of the internet, to make stuff easier?

It is funny how there are always people willing to come up with nit-picking reasons why someone else's form of protest just isn't good enough. Even the greatest revolutionaries were far from perfect -- Mandela ran a bombing campaign for the ANC before he was imprisoned and If MLK were around today, people would dismiss his actions because he was a womanizer.

Many of Anon's DOS campaigns have had the intended results - raise awareness about their grievances. No way would the megaupload arrrests have received the national coverage that they got if it weren't for the sensationalism of Anonymous taking down the DoJ and other high-profile websites. Much of the coverage may not have been positive, but that's the nature of protesting the status-quo -- most people are OK with the status-quo, else it wouldn't be the status-quo.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

Sugar in the right gas tank, for the right reason works. Taking down netflix, blockbuster, amazon, and itunes in response to SOPA / PROTECT IP would be effective sugar in the gas tank. No matter how funny it is, no revenue is lost when riaa/mpaa sites are down. Real massive revenue losses would have people re-evaluating strategies.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Terrasque]

That's one thing I don't really understand.

Yes, he was making miljons. Why is that really a problem? Is that, in itself, illegal (now that WOULD be interesting)?

"He's making lots of money, he's clearly doing something illegal" - mmhmm.. *looks at CEO's for large companies* weelll.... I think we got a lot of potential targets for arrests here.

I'm not saying he's a saint here, I'm not saying he didn't break the law(s), all I'm saying that being a rich asshole is not in itself against the law (sadly enough, maybe?), and is thus more or less irrelevant for the discussion. If you pointed to where he got the money from, and documented it being illegal, then you have a point (and soon, probably some feds visiting).

Until then... Yes, he is rich. Yes, he is kind of a dick. No, it isn't relevant for the discussion.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Terrasque]

If anything we should be complaining that these kids aren't out in the streets...

I'd just want to remind you that Anonymous can do that too.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[rtfa-troll]

I you aren't right, but this is a simple empirical question. Either these protests have a good effect or they don't. Let's come back to that question in a year or two. We might still not be able to agree, but at least we will have some practical facts to judge by.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[rtfa-troll]

That should read: "I think you aren't right."

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I disagree, it is a hugely complex empirical question. Measuring the knock-on effects is practically impossible.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[CAIMLAS]

If they ignore you, the sense of the law erodes. If they arrest you, you become a martyr. Either way you win.

If they ignore you, you lose: the sense of law, and that the law is fair and just, is eroded. Civility is decreased, and that is what we should be desiring: civility is the very basis of functional civilization, after all.

If they arrest you, you lose: you are now in jail. You are not Kevin Mitnick. Today, nobody cares about the hundreds who are arrested and sentenced for things like this. And they will arrest you, later: you won't be publicly beaten, you won't have a visible trial, and there won't be a news reel of you being oppressed. You'll just disappear with your closely knit friends and family knowing you were an idiot.

Civil disobedience is civil war without teeth.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[rtfa-troll]

I'll pedantically disagree; simple questions ("is there a god" / "why are we here") can be very complex to answer. I was mostly just trying to say that I am not criticising their actions as being immoral, just saying that I think they are ineffective. Low cost ineffective actions are okay, but there is a real possibility that they pay a high legal cost because what they are doing is illegal.

Re:They're fools if they're not behind 7 proxies

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty sure it would be a pain in carburetted engines. Fuel injected don't have an evaporation step for the sugar to crystallize out and block things.

Slashdot wants YOU!

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Get the official LOIC http://sourceforge.net/projects/loic/
2. Unzip it
3. Run it
4. Enter a URL or IP
5. IMMA CHARGIN' MAH LAZER
6. ????
7. Profit!

LOIC was mentioned on MSM last night

[Anonymous Coward]

LOIC was actually mentioned on one of the MSM channels last night. I think it was NBC, maybe others. I think a bunch of N00bs are about to get more than they bargained for, perhaps even a knock on the door...

Fight the power, Anon!

[TiggertheMad]

I recently had an insight about Anon's activities. The reason hactivisim is gaining strength as a movement is because people are disenfranchised with society and seen conventional avenues of affecting change as a waste of time. The 'man' has a tight grip on the media, politicians and the police are being increasingly militarized for use on peaceful protesters.

People are unhappy with the status quo. Unless change starts happening now and fast, I predict Anon's numbers and targets to grow substantially in the coming years.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fighting the power, lol..

They the emo's of the internet, nothing more.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

you're an asshole

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason hactivisim is gaining strength as a movement is because people are disenfranchised with society and seen conventional avenues of affecting change as a waste of time.

Well, hear, hear. Obviously conventional avenues of effecting change are a waste of time; they have proven not to work. A bunch of nerds, techies, and assorted sending e-mails and letters to a representative? You get a standard text back. Bla-di-bla protect interests of creators bla-di-bla thousands of jobs.

Now with Wikipedia and Google blacking out and providing the masses with uncensored information about SOPA and the obvious reaction, that it something that worked. That is why Dodd (MPAA) wants to meet in camera with the tech industry giants to see if they together can't work something out. The public again off the game board. And what are they going to do? Vote Democratic? You get what you have now: ACTA, SOPA/PIPA, etc. Vote Republican? Who knows what you would have gotten. Left or right, you lose.

The only thing Dodd is scared about is a mainstream medium that is not part of the Entertainment Industry. A side-channel. What if that medium tasks itself to educating the public regarding copyrights and how ridiculous it is that a recording made in 1935 won't enter the Public Domain until 2067. What if it starts calling people to action? That is way more effective that DDOSing a few irrelevant sites.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Intelligent response...(Sad times are these!)

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anonymous is about one thing and one thing only - the lulz. Trying to ascribe them to some "noble" cause is naive at best.

As for the status quo, government hasn't been about serving the people for quite some time. This is not a recent development.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sad times are these!

We never had as much customers as we have now, so for us these times are good times.
You just have to choose your industry wisely.
Ours is higher eduction...

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Taking a stand for MegaUpload? This is a perfect example of when anonymous gives itself a bad name.
Kim DotCom is a greedy ruthlessly conniving pig of a man that makes wall street executives look noble in comparison. His success is based on the exploitation and stealing of others.

This isnt fighting oppression, this is being a crybaby because you cant download your latest call of duty game in a few clicks

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[reve_etrange]

a recording made in 1935 won't enter the Public Domain until 2067

I'd say that's extremely optimistic considering that US life expectancy is now 76 years. I guess it was lower in 1935 though.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason hactivisim is gaining strength as a movement is because people are disenfranchised with society and seen conventional avenues of affecting change as a waste of time.

and this is somehow novel to this generation. I was 16 once and an anarchist then i grew up got a job and learned how society and the world really works.

Real change comes from within. Vote, run for politics, discuss politics with your peers and elders. Somehow everyone decided discussing politics was a dirty evil topic and society went to hell as everyone started caring more about what the Kardashians are doing than whats going on with the world around them.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[MMORG]

Well, let's see. We just got done with a well-constructed, well-reasoned, well-executed protest against SOPA and PIPA, and we killed those bills dead as a *direct result*. When was the last time a DDoS did *anything* other than harden the resolve of the party being attacked? How do they think the MPAA et al will react? "Oh my goodness, some script kiddies are DDoSing our web site. Quick, release the MegaUpload people from jail and turn their servers back on! It's our only hope!"

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[flyingsquid]

I recently had an insight about Anon's activities. The reason hactivisim is gaining strength as a movement is because people are disenfranchised with society and seen conventional avenues of affecting change as a waste of time. The 'man' has a tight grip on the media, politicians and the police are being increasingly militarized for use on peaceful protesters. People are unhappy with the status quo. Unless change starts happening now and fast, I predict Anon's numbers and targets to grow substantially in the coming years.

And these people are protesting what, exactly? That they might have to pay $8 in a theater to see the latest, oppressively stupid instalment of the "Transformers" franchise instead of getting to download it for free? Yeah, these guys are real crusaders for social justice.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do online activism. Google and Wikipedia showed the right way to do it with their protests of SOPA. Their protests made a powerful statement about online freedom without attacking anyone, and it was amazing to see how quickly Congress retreated. By comparison, the Anonymous attacks just seem like a vindictive act of petty vandalism, by a bunch of kids who are angry because their parents have taken their toys away from them. It's not helping anything, if anything it's destructive. People are going to think "if this is what they mean by freedom of speech, then maybe I'm in favor of a little censorship".

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[dgatwood]

Living for 62 years after making a recording isn't really all that optimistic. It's probably less than one standard deviation above the norm even if someone made the recording in his/her mid-twenties.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

When was the last time a DDoS did *anything* other than harden the resolve of the party being attacked?

Good. Because you know what?

Well, let's see. We just got done with a well-constructed, well-reasoned, well-executed protest against SOPA and PIPA,

We just got done with fucking nothing.

SOPA and PIPA will pass in other forms, and you won't do a fucking thing about it. Because this November, you fucks are going to really show them. You're going to vote for Obama, because Republicans are bad. You're going to vote out those corrupt fuckers in Congress, except your own, because it's all the other states' senators who are corrupt, not your wealth-pilfering, pork-guzzling gentletwats. Oh yes.

Where the fuck was Wikipedia when the NDAA went through?

Where the fuck was Google when an American citizen was summarily executed by the military, without warrant, arrest, charge, trial or any due process whatsoever?

SOPA? Give me a fucking break. SOPA is perhaps the most inconsequential thing the Internet has ever been butthurt about.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[guttentag]

What if that medium tasks itself to educating the public regarding copyrights and how ridiculous it is that a recording made in 1935 won't enter the Public Domain until 2067.

My favorite example of the ridiculousness of copyright abuse by the content industry is still Happy Birthday To You. The tune was first published in 1858... three years before Abraham Lincoln took office! Martin Van Buren, the country's 8th president, was still alive! Mark Twain wouldn't publish Tom Sawyer for another two decades! Yet this song was published in a few different forms over the next 80 years or so, and now the copyright on it does not expire until 2030... 172 years after it was first published. Think this is just some obscure case that no one takes seriously? Warner Music Group bought the rights to it in 1998, and as recently as 2008 they reported earning $5000 a day in royalties. Ever wonder why restaurant employees will embarrass you on your birthday but won't really sing Happy Birthday? Because it would be a public performance of a copyrighted work and they would be liable!

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[lightknight]

SOPA is the straw that threatens to break the camel's back. It takes a lot to stop a House / Senate bill on short notice, even if it's temporary.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[MMORG]

Um, ok then . . . carry on with your DDoS, I guess. Cause, yeah, that'll show 'em.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[andydread]

Obviously conventional avenues of effecting change are a waste of time;

That depends on what the obvious conventional avenues are. From what I see current conventional avenues for affecting change is purchasing legislation from corrupt congress and senate. So if you really want to effect change you do what the MPAA/RIAA/BSA and other lobby groups do. You pay for legislation. Now whether the multitudes want to band together to lobby congress on the digital rights of the people rather than big media is another story altogether. I try to give to The EFF when I can but that is not enough unfortunately. :( Even Slashdot.. I would bet probably only 5-10 % of readers care enough about this issue to support groups like the EFF. Let alone get organized enough to effect change. I wonder what ratio of Slashdotters income goes to the above mentioned groups that lobby against their digital rights rather than for them.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[bky1701]

He was targeted because he offended the copyright industry. He is accused of doing something he did not, and should not be illegal anyway. That is why there was retaliation. If you valued freedom, you'd be calling for more. Instead, you cower and claim they "look bad" for standing up. You are despicable.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Osgeld]

yea it will make a couple sysadmins lives hell ... for about an hour

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[JohnnyMindcrime]

People are unhappy with the status quo.

Not so sure about the above statement as many people are saying their latest album has very much gone back to their old sound.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[M_Cheevy]

wsj being Murdoch owned is not a good reference to cite. As he and his organisations supported SOPA/PIPA, I'd view their opinion as jounalistically tainted.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[dissy]

We just got done with a well-constructed, well-reasoned, well-executed protest against SOPA and PIPA, and we killed those bills dead as a *direct result*.

That simply has not happened.

The sponsor of SOPA has recently also pushed new anti-childpornography laws through the house and congress, in preparation for attaching SOPA as a rider.

He has already admitted the ONLY problem with the last SOPA was that he let the public know about it, giving them time to express their dislike, and has stated he learned from that mistake.

As in, the damaging effects, the destruction it will cause, and the fact people are against it, he doesn't see any of that as a problem. Only that the public had time to counter it.

This time next year, SOPA *WILL* be law.

* Note I am not arguing in favor of DDoS either. You are quite right in that such attacks have not helped anything one bit, and are not part of any functioning solution.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post has no useful content. What is it that he's done that you think he shouldn't be punished for because it shouldn't be illegal? Why would granting that freedom be in the public interest?

He might be despicable, but you need to prove that instead of standing on your soapbox and shouting "Freedom and stuff, whoooooo!!"

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Glad someone else noticed this...

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Google and Wikipedia showed the right way to do it with their protests of SOPA.

Oh yeah, they totally did!
One site blacked out, another pretended.

What is a lowly little internet user to do? Disconnect their internet for the day?
"OH NO, WHAT CAN I DO WITH ALL THIS FREE BANDWIDTH?" -ISP.
Seriously, think for a second before you state such drivel.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[geniice]

No he's logical. When you are campaigning you pick and chose your cases. Rosa Parks was selected as the person to campaign over because she had a pretty respectable background. You want to demonise drugs? Ignore the deaths on sink estates and focus on any deaths of pretty middle class girls (Leah Betts).

For copyright you want to stick to cases involving respectable parents doing things that are borderline fair use in any case.

Leave Kim DotCom to the lawyers. He can afford them.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

the facts are

Anon has shown the masses where LOIC is and what it does. Watching tweeter trending yesterday there was trends with people demanding their personal backups back that are now offline. The FBI might have a case that mega upload was storing copy righted media but so does drop box, iCloud and a number of other services.

Now the internet chatter is that teh FBI was going to wait for SOPA/PIPA to pass but now seeing that there is no chance pulled mega upload anyway. Now the masses not the techies, (i get the impression most techies did not like a service like this) are pissed, tweeter showed that yesterday. What you are seeing is normal people with general day to day computer skills getting access to LOIC to try and make a stand because THERE IS NO OTHER WAY for someone to be heard.

Personally everyone here thinks this is anon, this is not, this is normal people getting pissed and doing what every they can to make their voices heard. This is a massive step because now the masses are getting in on using these tools.

Regardless if you think mega upload was just there to spread cr media, it was a SERVICE for people to BACKUP to and the FBI just ripped that out.

People are pissed, and LOIC means that anyone can join in with very little information.

Anons ranks will swell, FBI way to make friends

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Hentes]

Not trying to defend Anonymous here, but standing up for free speech means standing up for the free speech you don't agree with. Also, Megaupload was a file storage provider, not a piracy site. Granted, it was shitty service even for that, but it was easy enough to use for a layman, hence its popularity. Using it for piracy would be very uncomfortable, I don't think many people did that.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you misrepresent Anonymous' part in this. Yes they want to DDOS and yes they do not have as much mainstream clout as Wikipedia or Google when "turning off their sevices"; it was, however, Anonymous who first made us aware of PIPA, and later SOPA. It was they who picked out the exact legislation in the sea of legalese that the american officials produce every day and alerted us to the danger.

This is CreepyChan v2.0, just not joyful, so go fuck yourself. If not for Anonymous, SOPA and PIPA would have passed before Wikipedia and Google realized what was going on.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh I am despicable you say? Fighting SOPA/PIPA = noble cause
Sharing powerful open source code/media with the public = noble cause
Fighting for the rights of anonymity = noble cause

Fighting for megaupload = taking a stand for a fat selfish millionaire that runs your favorite pirated video game locker.

I bet if you had an 80-hour week job at a video game development company you would be singing a different tune.

CAPTCHA: "answered" :)

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[misexistentialist]

But racial integration is about more than quiet old black ladies and drugs are about more than rich white girls. Good tactics, but like kicking someone in the balls, the victory is so hollow and cheap that it might be worse than losing. Dotcom can take care of himself, but what about the rest of us? Public support could inspire a Larry Flynt defense If the 1st Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, then it will protect all of you. Because I'm the worst.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Insightful"? Glad to know that the Reputation Manager and his sock puppets are alive and well a living on Slashdot.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Elbereth]

Your own link disproves almost everything you just said. Happy Birthday To You was not first published in 1858. I don't know where you got that idea. Absolutely nothing in the USA that was first published in 1858 is still under copyright. Happy Birthday To You was first copyrighted in 1935. The first publication seems to be 1933. Now, how exactly you manage to copyright a work for hire that's already been published seems a bit tricky. It looks as though the parent work (Good Morning To All, dating back to 1893), of which Happy Birthday To You was a clear derivative, might have technically fallen under the public domain, since copyright was never properly asserted (much like George Romero's Night of the Living Dead). Happy Birthday To You, the Ice Ice Baby of its day, changed a single note. As an unauthorized, derivative work which existed in prior form before being copyrighted, you'd think that Happy Birthday To You had more legal controversy, but it seems as though that's simply not the case.

Isn't the true history enough to condemn this song, rather than making up ridiculous claims, like that it was first published in 1858?

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

How does that work? All the politicians are corrupt and/or easily bribed.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

You successfully described just about any wall street banker with your description as well.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Discussing politics isn't dirty or evil, but the vast majority of people I try to avoid discussing politics with actively oppose their own best interests, and they either aren't aware of that fact at all or they just don't care and already consider the ruling class as "better than them". It's very disheartening to say the least.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[10101001 10101001]

No he's logical. When you are campaigning you pick and chose your cases. Rosa Parks was selected as the person to campaign over because she had a pretty respectable background. You want to demonise drugs? Ignore the deaths on sink estates and focus on any deaths of pretty middle class girls (Leah Betts).

No, you exploit the pretty middle class girls and then generalize to include the deaths on sink estates. That's what MLK did. If the "unintended consequences" of SOPA and ilk is to suppress liberty, then let it be that the "unintended consequences" of supporting Kim Dotcom and his ilk is to support liberty. What did MLK do? He changed the discussion from one of skin color and the supposed inherent hierarchy to one of personal character. Similarly, instead of a question of piracy and the supposed need to limit liberty, the discussion needs to be converted to one of personal freedom and responsibility. That's what the DMCA Safe Harbor provision was all about; it should matter not how much a person "wanted" their service to be abused for copyright infringement because in the end the DMCA made it explicit that so long as you follow the take down rules it's the uploader who is responsible. That is how it should be.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Google is the most visited website on the planet. Wikipedia is the 6th most visited website. What works for them may not necessarily work for everyone else.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Accusing anyone who disagrees with you of gaming the system. Real classy.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

>Ever wonder why restaurant employees will embarrass you on your birthday but won't really sing Happy Birthday? Because it would be a public performance of a copyrighted work and they would be liable!

Where the hell did you hear that. I worked in restaurants for years--we sang happy birthday all the time and there was never any mention of copyright infringement. I was believing you until you pulled that one out of your ass.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[CAIMLAS]

Vote Democratic? You get what you have now: ACTA, SOPA/PIPA, etc. Vote Republican? Who knows what you would have gotten. Left or right, you lose.

Since at least 2000, you get the same thing:

FUCKYA

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[CAIMLAS]

By comparison, the Anonymous attacks just seem like a vindictive act of petty vandalism, by a bunch of kids who are angry because their parents have taken their toys away from them. It's not helping anything, if anything it's destructive.

On the contrary, I disagree.

All I've seen of the Anon attacks is that they make the Internet slow. Media sites don't/didn't work (eg. Netflix) all that well. In combination with Google and Wikipedia putting the blackout in effect, it had a powerful combined effect:

This is what the Internet is like with an information blackout brought upon us by restrictive legality.

Petty and childish? Maybe. How else is someone supposed to protest these things in the real world, these days, exactly? Stand outside in the rain and look foolish like a hippie while getting in the way of everyone? That just pisses people trying to work off.

Re:Fight the power, Anon!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you missed the point, they're don't know what they're protesting against or they're protesting against a thousand different little things that they probably argue over between themselves. The point is that they have a common feeling of disenfranchisement.

knee

[phrostie]

I used to be an adventurer like you, then i took an LOIC in the knee.

Re:knee

[Anonymous Coward]

i swear to god if this starts up again i am going to track you down and shoot you in the knee.

Re:knee

[Anonymous Coward]

>>I used to be an adventurer like you, then i took an LOIC in the knee.

sounds less painful than a herring.

Re:knee

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to get arrows in my knee, but then I took an arrow to the other knee.

Re:knee

[phrostie]

+1 under rated

ROTFL

ANONYMOUS CAN SUCK IT @!@!

[Anonymous Coward]

MegaUpLoad has been doing warez since 2000, when it was a kommie's wetdream, but now it needed to be spanked, and spanked it was, by the US of A elite (DoJ + MPAA + RIAA and all the motherfuckers it ripped off), so I say, What the fuck did you expect, you stupid motherfucker !!

Well

[M0j0_j0j0]

It makes sense, and fits the "angry mob", they don't care , they are taking away from people that "think" they have nothing to lose, it is the people fighting for whatever they believe in.

Really? Sourceforge is hosting DoS tools?

[Anonymous Coward]

William M. Sams in handcuffs. Thats something you don't see every day.

Richard Stalman created worse: WGET.

[Anonymous Coward]

wget has got to be the Tourist tool of the century of all the Brobots in 4Chon.net's R9K1.

Taking pictures and leaving footprints (Chuck Norris style).

Nothing to see here, move along.

Re: Java web page

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey what you do is you make a HTML Java web page of loic the attack then comes from that website hosting provider. And your side you use a proxy. There is about 14 of these websites that I know of.

Anonymous Docsis

[Anonymous Coward]

If anyone is going to be using this tool they need to learn how to be completely anonymous with docsis technology...

Re:Anonymous Docsis

[dredwerker]

If anyone is going to be using this tool they need to learn how to be completely anonymous with docsis technology...

Why would one want to learn about docsis?

I looked it up and its about cable tv and fibre connections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification (DOCSIS) (often pronounced /dkss/) is an international telecommunications standard that permits the addition of high-speed data transfer to an existing cable TV (CATV) system. It is employed by many cable television operators to provide Internet access (see cable Internet) over their existing hybrid fiber-coaxial (HFC) infrastructure.

The Sheep’s Mere Sheep

[Anonymous Coward]

... easily dispersed should you strike the shepherd.

Politicians, DoJ, even the RIAA and MPAA, these are mere sheep. Willing scapegoats, but immortal. You cannot destroy them. You must strike at the human minds behind.

Take away the anonymity of the directors of the copyright owning corporations behind this. Expose their secrets. Illuminate their crimes. Dissolve their privacy, pull back the veil behind which they destroy human rights. Ruin their lives. Then tell them why. Tell the world why. Let them be a lesson.

Do not be fooled into thinking your government is against you. Once educated, they will be your greatest ally. But they have been deceived. Strike at the heart of the corruption, not a symptom of it.

Re:The Sheep’s Mere Sheep

[Anonymous Coward]

That is the most incorrect claim I've seen in a while. I almost wonder I'm a victim of Poe's law. 'Strike at the heart of corruption, not a symptom of it' you say. Great. Now just stop pretending that the ones pointing guns at you have mcdonalds and walmart badges and see reality for what it is. Violence, the thing these corporations rely on from the state, comes not from some greedy suit, but our very own government. The symptom is the corporations. The source is the initiation of force perpetrated by the legitimatized mafia running things. That some corporation pays the guns of the state off so that they will shake down anyone who doesn't comply with these made up rules is merely an effect of the violence; an inevitable result of cheap evil in the form of bureaucrats who can be bribed to have people fined and thrown in jail and shot and killed. Get rid of that power, and the RIAA is just a bunch of crabby old men bitching in corporate office space about those darn kids. It takes the government to actually carry out the threats.

Don't be fooled into thinking your government is peaceful, is benevolent, is an agency of cooperation and productivity. They take lives and money with guns. The corporate scum are merely parasites, feeding on the bits that fall from that violence.

Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[joocemann]

I've got an idea, but I don't develop/code software.... someone please run with this....

Make a plugin for browsers that denies or blocks access to sites for companies that are actively pushing to destroy net neutrality. Like most blacklists, they are maintained by a source that tries to keep up to date, and upon whom the subscribers bestow trust (that the sites are indeed pushing against net neutrality).

A few ideas...

1) Block site, and reference evidence as to why.
2) Offer option to continue to the site (lets say you've got to pay your ATT bill online or something, but you like the filter for most other reasons but were forced to choose ATT for an ISP thanks to oligopoly).
3) Link to donations for EFF or other pro-net-neutrality activism groups?

Anyway.. I feel like something like this, if produced well, and promoted, would catch the eye of even the layman who may be interested, and want to be supportive, but may not actively follow the unfolding drama around the topic... The outcry against SOPA/PIPA clearly grabbed the attention of many who are politically inept or disinterested, and they motivated well. It would be nice to see a plugin like this spread with public support.

Re:Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[aardvarkjoe]

Honestly, I have a hard time imagining someone who doesn't know about net neutrality issues, but would still choose to install a plugin that actively detracts from their usage of the internet in order to support net neutrality. Seems that anyone who might be interested enough to download the plugin would probably be interested enough to do their own research.

Re:Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[repapetilto]

Many people feel net neutrality is a government solution to a problem created by government generated barriers to entry in the first place. I haven't researched it myself so I don't know how much of a role the government plays in creating ISP monopolies, but I wouldn't assume more regulation is the answer.

Re:Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[joocemann]

Ok... right now, list every site for any entity working against net neutrality.... i will wait, and my point is made. who wants to memorize a list that long...

Re:Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I might be okay with that. It's not such a crazy idea. I'd think of it as a warning that I was about to visit the site of a (claimed) scumsucking, anti-freespeech lowlife business, and if it provided a link to the documentation justifying the stance of the company (e.g., their press release supporting SOPA), it could save me a lot of time investigating the claim for myself. Assuming it checked out, it would certainly provide me with a strong incentive to try a different web site instead of supporting one that lobbies for something I don't support.

Re:Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[CyprusBlue113]

And those people would be stupid. It's the exact same reason you don't have 12 competing power line systems coming through your neighborhood.

If you want to see what that *did* look like, there is clear historical documentation as such, and furthermore, it is what caused those "governmnet granted barriers to entry" in the first place.

Re:Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[repapetilto]

Usually, when people say "there is clear historical documentation of a free market solution" they turn out to be wrong and the government was giving out land grants or something stupidly. I do agree that it would seem like a waste for companies to lay down the exact same type of lines side by side, but I don't see why the government needs to be responsible for deciding who gets to lay "the last mile" when a new highrise, neighborhood, etc is being constructed.

Re:Time for the net-neutrality 'activist plugin'

[shadov]

Blocking the site is a bad idea. A small notification, for example a box in the top right corner of the web page (like the Ghostery plugin), would work very well. Don't be intrusive, or people won't use it. It should also be more general purpose: net neutrality, human rights, environment, animal rights, etc. Let the user choose what issues they are interested in.

Perhaps the mistake is ignoring the warning shots

[Anonymous Coward]

I do agree with you, DOS attacks are pointless; however, what options are left? You make a bunch of statements but truthfully, all of them have been tried.

I just had to switch ISPs since my current one decided that SSL connections would be limited to 7kb/s (Yes, just slightly higher than modem speeds) and I work from home and have to use a VPN. There reasoning is simply that file sharers are using SSL and they can't deep packet inspect them so there solution is to rate limit all SSL connections to a barely acceptable speed.

As for subverting the system, or building something new to solve a problem that shouldn't exist, how many times must we do this? How many protocols for file sharing have been created already? They just keep adding laws or abusing laws or trying to force others to do their work for them (ISP, website owners, etc).

Look at megaupload (I'm not a fan and have never used any file service like this) but the simple fact is that that company is no different than any other company (e.g., Google). The fact is that it is (or was) illegal to hold one person legally responsible for the actions of others, but that is exactly what the "law" is doing by arresting the owners of megaupload. At this point of time we no longer have Law (for the people), and without Law their is nothing left. The simple fact is this "token" assault is a peaceful demonstration (aka Internet equivalent of marching in the streets) that should be taken seriously; but as you, and others make clear, it will do nothing and/or provide fodder for even more laws. So at which point does the message have to go from peaceful to non-peaceful? This is what I am scared of as I believe there is little or no chance of a peaceful settlement anymore :( So I will encourage as much of this peaceful demonstration as much as possible for the small glimmer of hope that the message will get across before the worse case occurs....

Back a person (including you) into a corner and sooner or later you realize you have no choice but to attack. High unemployment, unbalanced laws, misappropriation of laws/legal/justice, economic enslavement, loss of hope, loss of freedom, loss of the "american dream", and ignoring the will of the masses are all, in my opinion, signs that the perverbial shit is about to hit the fan....

But keep thinking it's just about some kids that want to have some fun....

Um....?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying sourceforge is sponsoring terrorism and illegal activities? Bring it DOWN!!!!

fingers crossed

[buddyglass]

Here's hoping they all get caught and do time.

Stupid idea.

[O('_')O_Bush]

LOIC can't bring down the gov't. The gov't doesn't see illegal attacks as civil disobedience. There is nothing that will push the gov't to crack down on these people like scaring them with a little anarchy.

If you want to protest, do so legally and publicly. The Guy Fawkes mask protests were a great gimmick to get media attention and raise awareness. Chances are, elected officials will be more likely to act in your favor if they see their jobs and sweet money flow coming to an end.

Re:Stupid idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to protest, do so legally and publicly. The Guy Fawkes mask protests were a great gimmick to get media attention and raise awareness.

Wearing masks is illegal in some localities, welcome to the USA.

Re:Stupid idea.

[LordLucless]

If you want to protest, do so legally and publicly

And inside your designated free speech zone.

Re:Stupid idea.

[meeotch]

Legally... You mean like this?

The death of 1000 scripts...

[TiggertheMad]

And these people are protesting what, exactly? That they might have to pay $8 in a theater to see the latest, oppressively stupid instalment of the "Transformers" franchise instead of getting to download it for free? Yeah, these guys are real crusaders for social justice.

Just because their method of displaying their discord isn't particularly proactive, doesn't mean that they don't have a legitimate complaint. While specific individuals might have varying motives, I get the impression that Anon's objections to big media is less about getting a few free torrents, and more about the control and power corporations exercise over individuals in society.

From your tone, I am guessing that you are unimpressed with them, so I will cast down the gauntlet: What is a better way to deal with corporations attempts to erode your rights in the name of greater profits? You going to hit em with the big guns, and write a letter to your congressman?

Re:The death of 1000 scripts...

[Osgeld]

type everything in italics! that will show them

Re:The death of 1000 scripts...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because their method of displaying their discord isn't particularly proactive, doesn't mean that they don't have a legitimate complaint. While specific individuals might have varying motives, I get the impression that Anon's objections to big media is less about getting a few free torrents, and more about the control and power corporations exercise over individuals in society.

Sure ... and Habbo Hotel was about the freedom to have your game character stand anywhere you want it to stand

... and the raids on epileptics forums were about freedom expression, no doubt

you sir, seem to have no idea about Anonymous beyond buying into the white-knight media hype. Maybe start by meditating about "lulz vs lols" for a bit O.o

Re:The death of 1000 scripts...

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, once upon a time, there were no quote-tags in slashdot and it was customary to use italic in quotes instead. Follow the old tradition but forget the slash in end tag and what you get?

Ineffective, as recent history shows

[Okian Warrior]

Yes, let's go back to working within the system because that has worked so well in the recent past.

Have you been paying the slightest bit of attention?

Do you honestly believe that educating the government will work when the entire SOPA blackout didn't?

All attempts at working within the system have failed. It's time to try other avenues.

Anonymous has chosen to promote change in their own way. It may work, it may not... but at least it has the *possibility* of working. We now know for certain that all the "right" ways will fail.

Perhaps someone should come up with a system similar to kickstarter, where people can donate money to fund the opponent of congressmen they don't like.

Lamar Smith introduced SOPA and is coming up for reelection this year (I think). Perhaps people should pledge money to a fund which will be given to his opponent, as a response.

Perhaps someone should start a super-PAC org and take donations to air ads against him.

There are lots of other things we could do - we just need some creativity.

Re:Ineffective, as recent history shows

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps someone should come up with a system similar to kickstarter, where people can donate money to fund the opponent of congressmen they don't like.

Why some people think everything can be solved simply by throwing more money at the problem? What is required is educating the public to understand that corporations will crush them if that means more profit, and that politicians care about two things: profit and being re-elected (for more profit). Politicians also know that people think they do not have a choice, so as long as they seem less bad than the other guy they get the vote.

LOIC = FBI Targeting Beacon

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, anyone who uses LOIC is an idiot.

Re:Perhaps the mistake is ignoring the warning sho

[JockTroll]

There is not, there has not been, and there can never be any "peaceful settlement" with people who have set as their ultimate goal to wipe out the internet as we know it and replace it with their own shopping mall variety, and who have the money to do that. They have no reason at all to settle for less or give up when they hold all the aces (money). The only response must come from the barrel of a gun.

Re:Perhaps the mistake is ignoring the warning sho

[rtfa-troll]

The fact is that it is (or was) illegal to hold one person legally responsible for the actions of others

I'm going to have to call bullshit on this. If you pay a hitman to kill someone, you also go down for a crime; sometimes murder; sometimes conspiracy. If you go along on a crime in the US (e.g. a housebreaking) where someone gets killed, even if you weren't directly involved, then they charge you with murder. If you are a mafia boss and they prove you ordered a drugs transport, they do you as a drugs dealer.

In this particular case, the police seem to have made very sure that they have evidence of inducement; there are tape recordings of the megaupload people discussing that they want to encourage copyright infringement. There is evidence of the people at megaupload using database searches for copyright material etc. etc. Now, I don't take what the police say at 100% face value, but you should be very aware that it's likely that they have deliberately made sure that they have proof of every stage needed to make you look very foolish. They have laid a trap and claiming that these people are innocent becuase they can't prove inducement to unlicensed copying is falling into that trap.

The members of Megaupload are innocent for another reason. The majority of the copyrights broken belong to members of the MPAA or RIAA. These groups have been deliberately attempting to reduce the public domain. As such, they are acting contrary to the constitutional aim of copyright and their copyrights should be invalid. Given that they have had several chances to act against it and have failed in their constitutional duty, the members of the supreme court should be impeached for allowing this kind of situation to continue. Unfortunately judicial immunity makes that a bit difficult.

Don't confuse "you can't prove it" which is a simple factual matter with "this should be allowed" which is a moral matter. Also don't confuse that with "this is legal" which is often decided in practice by judges who don't understand the issue in the first place. By mixing these things up you give arguments to your enemies.

Re:Perhaps the mistake is ignoring the warning sho

[Anonymous Coward]

...however, what options are left?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty

PIPA/SOPA logic: time to shut it down

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus, we must shut down sourceforge.net and its associated slashdot.org website, lest LOIC and other terrorist tools get into more hands.

Anyway, beware of how these things are implemented, because once the government regards it as an "attack" rather than a protest, then they think they have a free hand to do anything they want in response.

MU Takedown Timing?

[Bob9113]

The timing of the MegaUpload takedown seems extraordinarily coincidental. There has been talk of it being retaliation for killing SOPA, but that doesn't wash, because the DoJ does not rush into things like that (for good reason). They have said it was in the works for a long time, and the indictment indicates that.

So look at it the other way. Why did they wait until immediately after SOPA died?

Once you ask that question, I think it is hard to ignore the elephant in the room. They were holding off because they knew it would make SOPA look unnecessary. They were trying to get SOPA passed before they executed on existing law.

Even assuming you think MU is guilty of the more apparently illegal stuff in the indictment (like I do), that doesn't seem right. "We're not going to execute the law, because we think we might be able to jam these mutts up harder when the new law goes through, and we don't want the public to know that existing laws already cover this." I dig how, in this case, waiting for SOPA to indict the MU leaders could be handled without triggering ex-post-facto, but it still seems like a dishonorable way to execute the law.

Punk kids run LOIC because they think the system does not respect them, and therefore they have a duty to disrespect the system. However misguided those punks may be, behavior like the above displays the very disdain for the public that is causing them to feel disenfranchised.

This is a chain reaction that is not going to stop unless one side decides to act in a mature fashion. Here is an inconvenient truth: It is not going to be the punk kids that decide to be the bigger man.

Re:Perhaps the mistake is ignoring the warning sho

[Killer Instinct]

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.

Noah Webster

DoS attacks are lame

[nurb432]

No really. They don't even amount as much as real life picketers out front of their building do, and that effect is negligible.

If you are going to make a real "statement", you need to do it in person. Hiding a world away and being a thorn for a few minutes just doesn't cut it.

Cool

[blueos]

Good to kwow that script kiddies are not using tools like PostTester (http://magic-hash.com) that exploit the recent hash flaws in post requests!

Re:Perhaps the mistake is ignoring the warning sho

[CAIMLAS]

If I own/operate a Taxi service and someone uses it for illegal activities, I am not responsible.
If a murder or other crime occurs on public transit, the city is not responsible (this happens quite often).
If I own a delivery service, and someone else ships illegal goods through said service, I am not legally culpable.
If someone exploits my network and uses it for illegal activities, I am not going to be arrested (in all likelihood, at least - because I am not responsible for their actions).
If someone is aware of a specific crime being committed, but is not party to said crime in action aside from actions they would otherwise take (eg. a bus driver ferrying someone back from a murder), they are not culpable. (They are a witness, presuming they're aware of it occurring at all.)

A hitman, or a conspirator in a murder, is something entirely different. That's an action (planning with or paying out to the perpetrator, specifically for said act).

anyone want to DoS a site for fun for me??

[Anonymous Coward]

pound on this one for tehe next 2-3 months until they go bankrupt please. They are attacking our corporate network with thousands of emails a day flooding our servers with spoofed email addresses then the email says to come to their damn poker site.

I would appreciate the help.

your target: www.virtualvegasbonus.net

think about the kansas city shuffle

[Anonymous Coward]

with Mbit/s over Mbit/s of dumb ddos traffic who will be able to catch the real probing and prodding of a serious hack attempt?
moar LOIC in the hands of overly heated dump teenagers means moar SAFETY for big boys

Anonymous

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's why you do it from a net cafe or similar while you are doing something else.

Hey, you are paying for anonymous net time anyway.. may as well multi task

Re:Perhaps the mistake is ignoring the warning sho

[rtfa-troll]

If I own/operate a Taxi service and someone uses it for illegal activities, I am not responsible.

That depends on whether or not I "induce" them to use my taxi for those illegal activities.

Example 1: I advertise my taxis as "the fastest way to get around town"; a hitman decides to use my taxi as a getaway vehicle. - this is okay.

Example 2: I advertise my taxis as "the best way for hitmen to get away from the scene"; A hitman phones up, explains he has a planned hit but wants to have a private way to pay for the taxi to make it difficult for the police to trace him. I answer that sure we can do that; anything for the customer; whilst we're at it would he like to hire a second taxi as a decoy? - this is not okay.

A hitman, or a conspirator in a murder, is something entirely different. That's an action (planning with or paying out to the perpetrator, specifically for said act).

The basic point in this case, if the police are to believed, is that they actually caught Megaupload in the process of helping people to use their service for uses they consider illegal. That makes megaupload much closer to Example 2.

12345

[Anonymous Coward]

like it!!

What, no HOIC?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOIC seems a little old school, and a lot of more basic DDoS defense measures have some effect in fighting off a LOIC attack. Go HOIC, it's a lesser known derivative/descendent.