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Jailbreaking the Internet For Freedom's Sake

snydeq writes "With so many threats to a free and open Internet, sooner or later, people will need to arm themselves for the fight, writes Deep End's Paul Venezia. 'If the baboons succeed in constraining speech and information flow on the broader Internet, the new Internet will emerge quickly. For an analogy, consider the iPhone and the efforts of a few smart hackers who have allowed anyone to jailbreak an iPhone with only a small downloaded app and a few minutes,' Venezia writes. 'All that scenario would require would be a way to wrap up existing technologies into a nice, easily-installed package available through any number of methods. Picture the harrowing future of rampant Internet take-downs and censorship, and then picture a single installer that runs under Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux that installs tor, tools to leverage alternative DNS servers, anonymizing proxies, and even private VPN services. A few clicks of the mouse, and suddenly that machine would be able to access sites "banned" through general means.'"

50 of 270 comments (clear)

  1. Achilles Heel by wanzeo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any alternative internet technology relies on encryption, and as long as courts have to ability to require you to decrypt data upon request, any discussion of workarounds is pointless.

    To really address the real problem, the laws themselves must be the focus.

    1. Re:Achilles Heel by Lundse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nonsense.

      "Upon request", as you say. "Courts". Ie. within a legal framework, subject to rights, seizure and eventually your own compliance.

      The danger we are trying to avert, is the disappearance of the need for those things. Of course the evildoers can always get a death squad or a court order - but they cannot automatically spy on everyone and aggregate the results, nor keep us from doing and saying what we want.

      That, not immunity from due process, is what we are looking for.

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    2. Re:Achilles Heel by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      courts have to ability to require you to decrypt data upon request

      True, but irrelevant. First, caching aside, how many people store their communications? The courts can't force you to do something you can't do. Second, the endpoints are (currently, typically) not encrypted anyway. Third, under SOPA it's not illegal to access the sites, just for DNS to return their IP and for Google (and who?) to list them in search results.

      The biggest hurdle is that Tor sucks and most people won't want to use their bandwidth to act as a router for anonymous traffic.

      I do agree with your conclusion though: laws should be the focus.

    3. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There are technologies like ssh and ssl where the end user has zero clue what the session key is.

    4. Re:Achilles Heel by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      Then while we're at it, we should probably double-check just to make sure that the due process really truly is due. Remember that the US DoJ has had a few nasty smears on its track record when it comes to electronic surveillance. We need a less corruptible set of rules for arbitration in these cases.

      Perhaps an all-knowing artificial intelligence would do the trick...

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    5. Re:Achilles Heel by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      It's not so much a technological problem as it is a social one. It's not a question of whether you can bypass the blocks or not, it's more a question of whether you're willing to suffer the consequences if you get CAUGHT with illegal bypass/proxy/VPN software. Many people are willing to TALK freedom, a much smaller number are willing to get the shit kicked out of them by a cop or get thrown into jail or prison for a few years for actually EXERCISING it.

      There will always be ways to bypass oppression, but will the masses be willing to risk the consequences of using them?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:Achilles Heel by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't trust private owners, and I don't trust the government. I'm undecided which one I trust least. Cooperatives don't really scale well. The best option I see is to make it technologically difficult for whoever controls the tubes to abuse their power: If all the data is encrypted, and they can't decrypt it, what can they do? Worst they might achieve would be blocking by address, but that's a modest level of evil compared to what they could do if the data were not encrypted.

    7. Re:Achilles Heel by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is very true but the problem is the general populace doesn't give a shit. As long as they have access to FaceBook, Twitter, etc. they remain clueless on what virtual freedom means. They are too busy watching the Super Bow going apeshit over juvenile humor as nipplegate.

      It is only the geeks that see the laws out of sync with the "moral compass" of society. Even an idiot can see that it absurd that you can't copy / share a number -- yet this is precisely what the laws says you can't do! Share a number which is a representation of reality (audio, video, text, algorithm) because somebody has asserted their "copyright" -- people don't want to talk about digital ownership being an artificial right based on the false belief of "scarcity."

      People won't do something -- change the laws -- until they perceive somebody else's "rights" are stopping their privileges. Until then, a small majority will keep on exercising their civil disobedience by ignoring copyright.

    8. Re:Achilles Heel by NIN1385 · · Score: 2

      When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom.

      --

      If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
    9. Re:Achilles Heel by jd2112 · · Score: 5, Funny

      When marriage is outlawed, only outlaws will have inlaws.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    10. Re:Achilles Heel by MartinG · · Score: 2

      I have much less of a problem being asked by a court to decrypt data than being censored abrtitrarily at the say-so of random large media companies.

      --
      -- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz .@adgimnoprstu
    11. Re:Achilles Heel by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Informative

      "It is only the geeks that see the laws out of sync with the "moral compass" of society."

      As a geek, allow me to say "Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!"

      "Even an idiot can see that it absurd .... false belief of "scarcity.""

      That is nowhere near as deep or as true as you think it is.

      You have wrapped yourself in geek arrogance, which may or may not be deserved, and believe that it elevates your opinion to fact. It does not. There are a number of geeks on /. who do not believe as you do and I'll warrant are your intellectual equal without problem.

      Climb down.

    12. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well said. Unfortunately, the lot who are busy beating the broken drum of scarcity are making it difficult for the rest of us who are honestly interested in fair laws around IP.

      Should IP be protected? Absolutely. I like that people get paid to be creative and provide me with entertainment. If we don't protect it and pay the people who created it (and yes, when necessary, distributed it), then we'll not have it anymore. To do that, the laws have to, and had to, change. And those laws must be enforced.

      Piracy is out of hand today. As 'geeks', we've provided the public with the ability to break IP protection laws with impunity. It's not acceptable to the creators of such content, and it is not sustainable.

      Now, that said, I'm fine with why it happened. It happened because of improved technology, and to be sure there are companies that reject the model on that basis alone. While I want to see legislation that will protect content owners, I would hate to see them protect and prop up those who fail to adopt their business models to match the new technology. But as long as people focus on something as stupid as the "scarcity" defense, we're not going to convince the lawmakers, content owners, or even the general public that a fair version of these laws would do good. They will see us as thieves, looking to use a loophole to rationalize our theft.

    13. Re:Achilles Heel by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I like that people get paid to be creative and provide me with entertainment.

      The problem is the 20 industry goons standing in between you and the content creator taking their cut.

      As for the lawmakers, they're not really convinced of the shit they say as regards copyright and IP laws. For the most part they're just reading off of a script that comes with a 6 figure check stapled to it. It wasn't until massive opposition by their constituents and the threat of repercussion that they started backing away from it, and that was political self-preservation, not any belief that the people were right. How many legislators have even come out and said "The people don't want this, and they are justified"? No, it's all "We must reexamine this bill" or "We must craft it in a way that protects copyright blah blah", never "Yeah, you're right, on closer inspection the bill was a fucking joke." They're stuck between a rock and a hard place because on one hand you've got people like Chris Dodd saying "Don’t ask me to write a check for you when you think your job is at risk and then don’t pay any attention to me when my job is at stake" while their constituents are threatening to kick their ass out of office in the next election cycle if they jump on board with SOPA/PIPA.

      Hell, Steve King (R-Iowa) was sitting in a SOPA hearing and tweets "We are debating the Stop Online Piracy Act and Shiela Jackson has so bored me that I'm killing time by surfing the Internet." What did he find boring? From her remarks:

      But there are sufficient loopholes here that would allow innocent sites to be shut down, thereby a loss of jobs. Have we answered the question dealing with national security? And as well are we recognizing the value of the First Amendment?"

      Those are the remarks he was so "bored" by. Given that, how the hell can we reasonably expect that these people have even thought about the shit they are doing? The few people actually doing real thinking in the comedy of errors we call congress get routinely ignored and dismissed. They've already decided how they're going to vote before the bill even gets entered. They've been paid to vote a certain way by the same fucking people writing these damn bills. They don't even want expert testimony, they didn't even want to allow anyone in the way of an expert to speak in opposition at the damn hearing. Google gave great testimony as to the problems with SOPA and were themselves dismissed, just as any opposing lawmaker was. I can't find the link to the exact quote, but one of them (I think it was Mike Leahy (D-Vermont) said something along the lines of "I don't see how this will break DNS and I don't believe any expert that says it will". This is what they're being paid for by the pro-SOPA groups, after all.

      The only other thing I can think of, that maybe they have thought about it and are just too fucking stupid to see the problems with what they were proposing horrifies me even more.

      All in all, I think convincing lawmakers is a fools errand. There are some people trying to pool money to lobby against the media cartels, but fighting bribery with bribery doesn't seem prudent to me. Better to just make their stupid laws as ineffectual as possible. Eventually they're going to get to the point where we really are living in an honest to god Orwellian Police State and the people are just going to overthrow the government entirely. I'm not entirely convinced that we could even prevent it at this point.

    14. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ah the false notion that IP requires any kind of protection to be profitable. The times before IP laws when no one was able to turn a profit from their ideas really must have been rough.

    15. Re:Achilles Heel by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Funny

      Prison populations will overflow as thousands of criminals turn themselves in.

    16. Re:Achilles Heel by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      It is :-/

      The fashion industry has no copyright yet still manages to make a profit.

      http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html

    17. Re:Achilles Heel by SuperTechnoNerd · · Score: 2

      "Piracy is out of hand today."
      This is exactly the FUD they WANT you to believe..

  2. it's not about connectivity, it's about accessibil by mapkinase · · Score: 5, Interesting

    it's not about connectivity, it's about accessibility: presence in the search results, being properly indexed.

    There could be million free pages under any super-free Internet. What's the point of it if nothing could be found?

    Main battle is going to be around google search results and there have been several front pages on that: content providers are already fighting with google.

    If a movie is getting NC-17 rating, forget about profit (in this case most rightfully so, that's Islam speaking).

    If a website is accessible only via Tor, forget about business.

    Imagine isntead of banning megaupload website were still accessible through Tor or some other kind of superfreeandsecretnet. Do you really think Dotcom would be leaving in 22M mansion?

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  3. desired outcome by prgrmr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would go further and suggest that this is a desired outcome by both governments and content holders: to drive the subversives, the perceived anarchists, and in short, all of the non-mainstream consumer users of the Internet off of it into their own "underground". This keeps the nominal Internet "market" sanitized from both subversive content and disruptive behavior, as well as segregates the undesirables into their own sandbox where keeping an eye on them may not be easier, but lowers the degree of urgency for doing so.

    1. Re:desired outcome by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Sort of a 'Cocteau Plan' for the internet.

      "AT&T was the only ISP to survive the Internet Big Media Wars. Now all ISPs are AT&T!"

      --
      Good-bye
  4. Alternative by DaMattster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can see this tightening of regulation creating an all new internet that is build amongst non-profit communities and connected together in fashions so that no one owns the transmission means. Unlike today's internet which is essentially owned by oligarchy consisting of AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon (i.e. Big Telecom) communities may end up either laying their own transmission lines or use multipoint wireless. This might just be the tipping point at which the pricing and collusion of Big Telecom leads to their ultimate demise and irrelevance.

  5. Neologising the Wordnet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh god, it burns.

    ...but in all seriousness: okay, Mr. Venezia, you can jailbreak it. Just be careful you don't brick it. No one needs a bricked Internet. While you're at it, can you install a SIM unlock, too? I hear the service provider that the Internet comes with is terrible.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    1. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by lennier · · Score: 2

      you can jailbreak it. Just be careful you don't brick it.

      I remember that game! Back before Space Invaders. Played like Pong.

      Now if someone could Spacewar the Internet, that'd be something...

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  6. So yeah... by Lundse · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...that is what Moglen et al have been saying all along: don't trust the lawmakers and people in power to make you free. Guarantee your freedoms one by one, by building them - free speech, anonymity, etc. can be engineered!

    --
    IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
  7. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by DocBoss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People go where the content is. If The Pirate Bay were only accessible over the Tor network there would be tons more traffic there, thus more information on how to access it. If enough content were only accessible over Tor soon there would be extensions for web browsers that would make it as easy to get there as any other site.

    --
    "They said we drink horse urine and sleep with our own kin. You say it's comedy, but how can someone laugh at that?"
  8. FBI physically seizes servers... by t4ng* · · Score: 2

    Kind of difficult to connect to servers that are unplugged and sitting in a guarded evidence closet somewhere.

  9. Pointless if there's no content by randizzle3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The other problem is that people might stop creating these great sites/services because you can't "just browse" to them or venture capitalists won't fund the startup. Anonymity and an underground internet is useless if all the cool stuff is just taken down (as opposed to blocked) or even worse, never created in the first place. For example, can we secretly get to megaupload now? What about it's competitors that have disabled file sharing?

  10. Re:a nobel thought but,,, by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 2

    it also requires the entry and exit to be trusted.

    No it doesn't. The whole point of TOR is that the only way to determine who is doing what is for the nodes to collude with one another (although there are traffic analysis attacks that ISPs can do if they can see all the traffic through all the nodes).

  11. Re:Why cross-platform? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are people so dumb now they can't pick from three or four installers the one appropriate to their system?!

    No; it's just that you've made the same ignorant mistake that many folks here on /. seem to: assuming that the majority of internet users are technically educated.

    FYI, it's not 1993 anymore; thanks to commercialization and social networking, everyone from your mailman to your granny are accessing the internet these days. Many internet users are specialized in non technical fields, such as nursing or architecture. Your statement is akin to a doctor saying, "If you're too dumb to perform gastrointestinal surgery on yourself, why should I bother doing it for you?"

    Yes, there are many, many people online these days who have little to no idea how the internet works, outside the knowledge that typing "www.google.com" will take them to Google's search page. Maybe if you tried educating the noobs, instead of responding to their ignorance with your own, you wouldn't find them so loathsome.

    Just my 2 pennies.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  12. tl;dr version: assume the internet is like UDP by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

    ie, filled with errors, out of sequence, dropped and maybe even faked packets (I know, that goes beyond what UDP is supposed to do).

    but assume that the network is evil and fake and someone is always trying to do bad things (listen, change, realtime trap-on, etc) and write your layered app protocols on top of THAT assumption.

    its a good assumption, in fact. if you assume your transport is bad and your app fills the gap to make the end to end connection, *now*, reliable and trustable, then you can deal with both honest and less-than-honest physical and logical transports (ethernet, atm, cable, dsl, etc).

    the problem is that our protocols and apps have assumed no mess-ups internally in our networks. this is no longer true anymore! the evil bastards have gotton a hint of how cool our internet toy is and they want to pervert it to suit their will.

    if we don't start taking a defensive posture on our network, we will LOSE control (arguable we have already) of our networks.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  13. Article is nonsense by TobiX · · Score: 2

    The money will always be in the "mainstream", or the particular mainstream of every place and time, by definition.

    Megaupload exists because it makes money. It makes money because millions of people watch movies and download shit off it, not because it makes a few hackers "free" to share stuff.

    No mainstream = no money = not *existing* in any noticeable capacity.

  14. Re:Vidalia bundle by hughbar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes agree, tor + freenet + GPG etc. are the basis for something useful. However 'they' own the pipes and country to country gateways, for example. So the new, new thing will really be from the bottom up and may be quite retro to start with. I've been looking backwards at fidonet, packet radio and gopher, for example. Also been thinking about biomimetic systems where the keys, for example are transmitted on one medium and the 'doors' on another, via something that spectrum hops.

    This sounds very tinfoil hat stuff but I've been around servers since Prestel, Minitel in France, BBS systems with modems and the current outlook just seems pretty bad. That is intuition rather than science, but really doesn't feel good at all. Even if we 'keep' the internet, it becomes something worse than television.

    --
    On y va, qui mal y pense!
  15. Mod Parent up! by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was just about to make the very same point myself. It's called Perfect Forward Secrecy. Use protocols in which the users do not have the ability to decrypt content after the session ends. Courts can't require you to do the impossible.

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    1. Re:Mod Parent up! by jamstar7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Courts can't require you to do the impossible.

      Yes, they can. And no matter how much you try to prove you can't, they can still charge you for noncompliance to their orders. It's called contempt of court, and the judge can make you rot in a cell until you do comply. No jury, no bail, no nothing.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  16. Re:How about back to basics? PGP 101 by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    For everyone to use encryption, it needs to be made so easy that they don't even need to know what encryption is. Like with SSL - all people need to know is that if their banking site doesn't show a padlock icon, something is suspicious. That probably means accepting 'good enough' encryption for a lot of things - encryption that could be broken by a fairly advanced MITM attack, but which is sufficiently annoying to the evesdropper so as to render mass-monitoring impractical.

  17. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a darknet I2P is clearly superior to Tor, both in speed and security - Tor still relies on trusted directory servers while I2P is fully distributed and requires no trusted servers of any kind. Tor is better as an anonymizing proxy.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  18. Re:YES! by Microlith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In a free society, piracy can happen.

    In a society where no piracy can happen, it cannot possibly be free.

    I leave it up to you to figure out how to reconcile a free society with one where piracy cannot happen.

  19. It's the sites, not the access by Kurt+Granroth · · Score: 2

    The problem with this approach is that it focuses on the end user's connectivity and not the effect such laws would have on the web sites themselves. Who cares if you have unfettered access to all sites when the sites don't exist due to legal threats.

    Let's take Slashdot as an example. Say something like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/etc eventually succeeds and it becomes very easy to shut down any website with just a suggestion of copyright infringement on the site. That is, if somebody posted a link to The Pirate Bay in the comments, then somebody else could get Slashdot as a whole effectively shut down as a result. And yes, that's what could happen with laws such as SOPA.

    What do you think happens to sites like Slashdot in an environment like this? The only reasonable response would be to drastically limit, if not eliminate, all user comments.

    Meanwhile, the Slashdot user deftly installs the circumvention software and is easily able to get to Slashdot... but who cares? Without the comments, the entire site has only marginal value.

    That's why circumvention software is only a tiny part of a workaround and one that will eventually fail. It's the sites that need to be protected, not the access.

  20. Whiskey rebellion all over again by Shotgun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And yet we have people running covert operations to let corn rot and then distill the runoffs. They have to hideout in the woods to perform one of the simplest operations you can do with fire and liquid. The laws are justified and sold, claiming that they protect people from bad alcohol, when we all know it is about tax revenue.

    In 1914, the federal government went on record outlawing a weed that covered the banks of the Potomac. A huge cadre of policemen have since been converted to an army to prevent people from talking stupid and getting the munchies. The claim is that marijuana is a "gateway" drug, when we all know that the taxed alcohol the authorities allow is the real gateway drug.

    Anyone that calls these regimes into question is labeled with an outlaw, rebel, or some other less than "proper society" title. Any politician that claims that it is a matter of personal liberty is called "bat shit crazy" when they aren't being completely ignored.

    Why, oh why, would anyone think that the powers that be would allow an alternative internet? "If you're on the alternative internet, it must be because of child pornography!!! Or you might be a terrorist! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" The excuse to bust down doors to lock people up for talking in chatrooms is prepared already, and the people have been conditioned to swallow it already.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  21. You can't run forever by Hentes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While circumventing censorship is better than nothing this is not technical problem but a legal one. We need to stand up against censorship on the streets, not on some dark unknown meshnet.

  22. Hard drive companies should fund this by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If it weren't for pirated content, few people would need big hard drives. I mean, really, a terabyte on the desktop?

    It's really hard to fill a big hard drive without pirating stuff. I was just looking at my hard drive space consumption. I have on it:

    • A copy of the disk of every computer I've owned back to 1997.
    • Source code archives for everything I've written since then.
    • Backups of all my web sites, including the databases.
    • A MySQL database of every business in the US and UK. (This is a purchased product.)
    • A MySQL database summarizing every SEC filing since 2000.
    • All the records for our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle, including source code archives, data logs and video.
    • Cygwin, with most of the GNU development tools.
    • Autodesk Inventor Suite, which is about 2 DVDs worth of software. (This is a benefit of a TechShop membership, incidentally.)
    • Multiple versions of mechanical designs in Inventor format. (One copy of one design is 36MB.)
    • Short animations from my days in physically based animation software, with all the files used to create them.
    • 12 years of email.

    This all adds up to about 200GB.

    If it weren't for piracy, the hard drive industry would be a lot smaller.

    1. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by petes_PoV · · Score: 2
      Add to that all the photos you take, maybe your home videos too and it's easy to get up to a TB - or more. Buy yourself a PVR that records HD content and even 2TB fills up pretty quick if you don't keep on top of cleaning up content after you've watched it.

      Maybe your post should be updated to: If it weren't for video, the hard drive industry would be a lot smaller.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    2. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by WiPEOUT · · Score: 2

      What he said. Photos alone runs into several hundred gigabytes and I've only been into photography a few years, and only started shooting RAW relatively recently. With terabytes of storage affordable, I'm now keeping high-quality video from events that I wouldn't have been able to keep before.

  23. fight back by Phoenix666 · · Score: 2

    The *AA's have declared war on the free internet, and governments everywhere are getting on board with that after seeing the Arab Spring use its tools to overthrow their governments and generally stop doing what they're told. We saw with the SOPA protest how effective we can be when we work together, because there are vastly more of us than there are of them.

    What we need to do now is to take it to the next level and take the fight to them. Revising copyright is probably a good place to start because there is a greater degree of public awareness about it now. If we push for the complete abolition of the notion of copyright, and push very hard, then the *AA's will be put on the defensive.

    More generally we need to expunge government of the clueless, supine creatures who lay down for all this nonsense as well as the pure evil who are screwing us with full awareness of the damage they're doing. With the advent of additive manufacturing this same set of issues is about to spread to every industry, and it's going to intensify with those larger stakes. We can see a new era of human freedom or unprecedented repression, but we won't tilt the balance in our favor unless we all fight hard.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  24. Re:Why cross-platform? by vux984 · · Score: 2

    To give an analogy, it's like driving a car on the road with no supervision even though you have no idea how to drive a car.

    So we should have a government run licensing program, whereby you must have a government issues license before connecting to the internet? That's going to improve things how?

  25. Re:Freedom's Sake? by mug+funky · · Score: 2

    as much as corporations talk the talk about free markets, they all want to be a monopoly. they all want 100% market capitalization.

    yes, we're free to choose between several walled gardens, and a precious few open platforms. give the corporations their way, and the shiniest, sexiest walled garden would become monopoly, and there'd be just as much control as you'd get from a censor-happy government.

    governments and corporations all want control, but for different reasons.

  26. Re:Freedom's Sake? by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think the argument that corporations threaten free speech holds water.

    We disagree. I think that corporations present a greater threat than the government. With the government, we at least have the constitution and some sort of influence over how it behaves. Not enough, but some. With corporations we have none. And nearly everything we do is in a corporation's control at some point or another.

    I have an iPhone. It comes with a user agreement that specifics how I can use the phone. If I don't like it, I can get another phone and/or another provider.

    I don't have to have an iPhone. I don't have to use AT&T.

    In the US, your choices of providers is extremely limited -- is it three nowadays? The smaller ones simply resell the service of the larger ones so they don't count. You can get another phone, sure, but when they are all behaving in the same fashion -- as they do -- then this choice is illusory.

    And you do have to use AT&T. If you use the internet or telephone service of any sort, the odds are overwhelming that AT&T is handling your communication as some point in its travels, even if you aren't their direct customer.

    Using tools to get around restrictions set up by the government (as in China, etc) is NOT the same thing as getting around restrictions placed on a device by the manufacture.

    I think they're exactly the same thing.

    I think I see where we differ. You see a difference between corporations and government. I think that they have effectively merged and there is little functional difference, except that corporations operate with far fewer safeguards. Corporations do the things that are illegal for the government, and vice versa, but they work hand in hand. The end result is the loss of liberty overall.

  27. Been commenting on this for 13+ years. Thoughts: by Catbeller · · Score: 4, Informative

    Darkneting won't save us. They can deep packet inspect, or block service to TOR nodes, or simply disconnect anyone who tries. They can - will- turn the internet very quickly into an old fashioned telephone system, with your real name required and full tracking on at all times. Bandwidth throttling, for instance, while ostensibly to stop "hogs" and kill Netflix, is very useful to discourage people from running TOR nodes. Hard to run encrypted virtual pipes when they constrict at will.

    They can pass any law they like and criminalize any trick we can come up with. The spooks behind this are not uninformed, and read the same boards we do.

    Young people, 30 and below in age, are not concerned. They have never, if you think about it, lived in a free world. They laid face-down on the hallway floors in high school while giant thugs let dogs sniff their crotches, looking for drugs like aspirin and Dayquil. They have been fingerprinted, watched, recorded, and monitored to the point where their school-issued laptops were taking pictures of them in their underwear for years. They have never lived in a world where such things are insane; this is everyday life to them. As they grew up, they have to give pee tests, saliva tests, stop for random searches by cops, swear to moral turpitude, sign up to homeowner and condo associations that pretty much are prison systems with nicer plumbing, and submit every movement on the internet and in person to GPS/IP-registerd locations. They don't understand why privacy is important; they are indoctrinated by the sheer banality of the evil. People who live by sewage filtration plants don't smell the shit, and young people don't smell the loss of their liberties.

    Solutions have to be hardware based combined with newer communication tech. Simple WiFi with encryption won't work; they'll make it illegal.

    Ideas: go to LEDs in a tube to transmit optical signals over short distances, home to home, building to building. Infrared lasers to act as backbones to a TOR-like network that does-not-interface with the old internet. The old internet is dead, people; they commercialized it, gave to the corporations and the police states of the world.

    Wild ideas: finally solve the problem of radio interference- it is a hardware/software limitation, not a real one. Thousands can transmit and receive over a single frequency if we solve this riddle, and then bandwidth is effectively infinite enough that TOR-like radio mesh networks could actually work with low latency and high throughput, with encryption.

    3-D printing of custom network nodes that do not conform to the government's ideas of MAC addresses and complete surveillance. We'll need our own custom 3-D printers as well; they will easily require mass-produced printers to ID themselves in the products.

    Well out there ideas: Quantum entanglement as a communications method. Don't laugh too hard; think about it. A transmission system that doesn't actually transmit through the air, but instead transmits at a distance without any detectable means. It can be done; I'm not the genius to do it. Believe it that the military will do it if it can be done. We all can do it too.

  28. Re:Freedom's Sake? by RandomAvatar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your first sentence made me spit water on my monitor laughing. Pray tell, WHO are these "intelligent" and "well-informed" people? the politicians have proven that they know squat about the internet while boasting their knowledge of it. The corporations seem intent on crippling a thing that has massively increased their profits.