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Facebook's Oregon Data Center Uses As Much Power As Entire County

Posted by Unknown on from the zynga-unveils-reactor-ville dept.

1sockchuck writes "The first phase of the Facebook data center in Oregon uses 28 megawatts of utility power, local officials said this week. That's not extraordinary for a facility of that size in most data center hubs. But it stands out in Crook County, Oregon where all the homes and business other than Facebook use 30 megawatts of power. The economics of Facebook's presence in Oregon are outlined in a new study, which asserts that the Prineville facility has brought tens of millions of dollars into the local economy. The second phase of the Facebook project is now underway, and the local utility grid is being expanded to add capacity." The study claiming economic benefits was commissioned by Facebook (reader beware).

208 comments

  1. Indeed by korgitser · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have always noticed, the bigger you get, the more power hungry...

    --
    FCKGW 09F9 42
    1. Re:Indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you expect from someone from Crook county. I bet they'd have moved to Probin-in-your-ass county if it existed.

  2. Go the Apple way by treuf · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    They should think about apple's future headquarter, which will have its solar plant to save a lot on power usage.
    With a such big power need - they could build their own power facility (be it renewable or not).

    1. Re:Go the Apple way by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      and build it in africa?

      maybe they figure they're not in the electrical generation business, it's more practical if you can buy hydroelectric..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Go the Apple way by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      I'm not too sure why either would want to get into the power business. But they should could waste some capital on some future power tech for kudos.
      They can't build Tony Stark's Arc reactor; but they can find some green pie in the sky equivalent. Install solar power on every house in the town. There they've just helped the grid for a few hours a day. Not a bad idea that.

    3. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Apple way? Oh, you mean outsourcing American manufacturing jobs to China?

    4. Re:Go the Apple way by BrentH · · Score: 2

      Actually, that makes a lot of sense.As long as they have a fat pipe to the internet, who cares where the datacenter is. Costs will be lower in Africa, and solar panels make a lot more sense there.

    5. Re:Go the Apple way by TheLink · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They could use solar to reduce their electric bill, but currently it's likely to just cost them more, unless there are subsidies which means taxpayers would be paying for their electricity (in return for hopefully improved solar tech in the long run).

      --
    6. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, like Apple, they should focus on pure PR spin to make it seem like they care about environmental issues by installing a few panels at their HQ, while simultaneously outsourcing their server farms as Apple does with its production facilities, to heavily polluting regimes like China? I'm not sure I see what you're driving at.

    7. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Costs in Africa are enormous. For power, both grid and fuel supply are unreliable, so onsite generation and large storage are a must. Latency to users in the US, Asia and Europe is crippling, and corruption is massive, it will drag your deployment out for years.

    8. Re:Go the Apple way by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, that makes a lot of sense.As long as they have a fat pipe to the internet, who cares where the datacenter is. Costs will be lower in Africa, and solar panels make a lot more sense there.

      Go to Iceland instead. Lots of hydro power, cooling not a problem, halfway between two of the most important regions to serve...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:Go the Apple way by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Informative

      The FB datacenter already runs on hydro power (they're like, 30 miles from the columbia river, which generates something like 50% of the hydroelectric capacity in the US), with an average year round temp in the high 50s.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    10. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hydro is one of the only technologies cheaper than solar energy. Solar energy is cheaper than coal, nuclear, and wind, presently.

    11. Re:Go the Apple way by stewbacca · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apple has 40,000 US employees and 20,000 international employees (not outsourced, they support their respective regions). They also provide all their US tech support from the US, not outsourced.

      Paying a contractor to assemble 10,000 iDevices a day in the only place on the planet with that type of manufacturing capacity is not the definition of "outsourcing" you are looking for.

    12. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i guess it does make a lot of sense if you're trying to export US jobs to other countries. in turn, that goal makes sense if you would like to see the US die.

    13. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, that makes a lot of sense.As long as they have a fat pipe to the internet, who cares where the datacenter is.

      I don't think you understand latency. There is no substitute for being physically close.

      Costs will be lower in Africa, and solar panels make a lot more sense there.

      Land is probably cheaper, but that's about it. Skilled IT people, reliable electricity & reliable fat pipes are difficult to find & expensive.

    14. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Build in Kelowna BC.
      http://www.rackforce.com/gigacenter_facility.html
      Among the lowest risk locations in North America
      Low Carbon Footprint
      Powered by ’Green‘ hydro energy

      BC Hydro might make D: faces though, that's not where the cheapest power generation is (The cheapest power is all along the Kootenay and Columbia Rivers since that's where the actual Hydro electric dams are.) Just those locations are one land-slide away from being trouble. Kelowna and Kamloops are also situated near a River, but the most danger they have is forest fire.

      I imagine that Building anywhere in Washington state and Oregon have similar features as long as you build 30km away from the coastline.

    15. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      halfway between two of the most important regions to serve...

      Not enough fiber capacity to serve either. Even the major US/EU US/asia trunks are congested at peek hours. Infinite bandwidth does not exist when it comes to underseas cable.

    16. Re:Go the Apple way by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      the datapipes between usa and euro don't go through iceland do they?

      but you know, since i'm not a total troll, before posting, I googled hydropower in oregon. it looks like a good spot - they got lots more than iceland does(more than iceland anyways).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    17. Re:Go the Apple way by delt0r · · Score: 2

      Solar is not cheaper than coal for two simple reasons. It is not noon 24 hours a day 7 days a week without clouds and the land you put it on is not free and neither is the cabling and switching of the power.

      Lets run some basic numbers: lets assume 20% solar cells (pretty high) and lets assume 24 hour noon sun 7 days a week without clouds. At the equator that gives us about 160W per m2. So we need 188000m^2 of solar panels, or 18.75Ha, or a square 433 meters on each side completely covered in panels. Only thing is that facebook goes down after noon, or when its cloudy or in the winter or if the panels are not at the equator. Now factor all that in, add some extra capacity, storage and cabling and you quickly see how solar is *not* cheaper than coal.

      The cost of solar power is *not* just price per watt at optimal illumination.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    18. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems you've forgotten about the laws regarding eavesdropping on any data that leaves or enters America territory.

      If they place their data center on foreign soil, the information that passes from America to the destination and back is all subject to different laws.

      This is not to say that Facebook isn't already coerced by subpoenas, and that they don't already comply with NSLs and the like, but now there's another layer, because you have TWO governments to deal with. The foreign government, where the data center resides, and the American domestic government, where the business principals live and operate.

      Who cares about where the data center is? The federal government.

    19. Re:Go the Apple way by afabbro · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, that makes a lot of sense.As long as they have a fat pipe to the internet, who cares where the datacenter is.

      People on the other end of it. A "fat pipe" is only one half of the network speed equation - bandwidth. The other half is latency. Until/unless someone figures a way to overcome the speed of light, a datacenter in Oregon is always going to be faster for North American users than one in Africa.

      That's why content distribution networks like Akamai serve you content from a DC nearest you - to reduce latency.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    20. Re:Go the Apple way by Bucky24 · · Score: 2

      Apple has 40,000 US employees

      How many of those are manufacturing jobs?

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    21. Re:Go the Apple way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The FB datacenter already runs on hydro power (they're like, 30 miles from the columbia river, which generates something like 50% of the hydroelectric capacity in the US), with an average year round temp in the high 50s.

      Prineville is NOT 30 miles from the Columbia River. Not even close. How in the hell did this get modded +5 Informative?

    22. Re:Go the Apple way by marnues · · Score: 1

      Hopefully very few. The screens are about the only part of the device complex enough to warrant building in our economy.

    23. Re:Go the Apple way by marnues · · Score: 2

      You did not prove that solar is not cheaper. Price per watt at optimal anything is not interesting to anyone, including the GP. New solar lowering business cost is a difficult equation that is case specific. You are just as incorrect as the GP.

    24. Re:Go the Apple way by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      You're right, it's 93 miles. Which is still a lot closer than SF or LA

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    25. Re:Go the Apple way by treeves · · Score: 1

      Currently +4, but the reason is that it IS informative. You're right, Prineville is about 100 mi. away from the Columbia, not 30, but that doesn't change the fact that Prineville has access to a lot of hydroelectric capacity, because the difference between 30 miles and 100 miles is 70 miles, but it's also negligible.
      And he did say "like, 30 miles".

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    26. Re:Go the Apple way by cluedweasel · · Score: 1

      Source? The FB data center gets their electricity from Pacific Power. They buy most of their energy in from external sources. 63% of the power they provide to their customers is from coal-fired power stations. The other provider in the area, the Central Oregon Electricity Co-Op does make use of power from hydro sources.

    27. Re:Go the Apple way by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      I think the main reason companies tend to like solar is that it allows them to reduce their peak power use, which on industrial scales has a big impact on the rates you pay. For a typical company HVAC is probably their biggest electrical cost, and it peaks at the same time that solar peaks. So, installing solar panels generates power at the time that getting it from the grid is most expensive. If you can get subsidies or goodwill for doing it then that also helps.

      On the other hand, a datacenter is running 24x7, and probably has the highest demand sometime other than noon, with a much more level load vs time. So, the same opportunity just isn't there.

      I don't have access to industrial volume pricing on solar components, so it is hard to estimate exact costs. However, 28MWx24x7 is a lot of energy. To generate a substantial portion of that using solar would require a very large array of panels and then some way to store that energy. For residential solar laws are written to allow consumers to sell their power back to the grid at full rates, but there is no way that Facebook could get that deal. They'd need an array capable of generating something like 80MW during the day (of which they're selling 50MW) so that they can make enough money to buy the 28MW for the time they aren't generating much solar. The whole town doesn't use 50MW, so who is going to buy it? The only way I know of to store that kind of power is pumping water up dams, so now it has to build a hydro plant on the side.

      If building 100MW-scale solar made commercial sense you'd see more utilities actually doing it.

    28. Re:Go the Apple way by cynyr · · Score: 1

      why do we care about manufacturing jobs that will be done by robots (if we are lucky) in the next decade or two (again if we are lucky)?

      If you are in manufacturing, better start learning how to program/operate CNC machines, or how to repair them. Even china is starting to displace humans with robots, so what does that tell you? Robots don't bitch that the lights are too low (or high), they don't need smoke brakes, can work 24H a day 365 days a year with minimal interruptions.

      Yes, I'm mad about jobs moving overseas, but at the end of the day most of these positions will be done by robots at some point in the nearest future. Yes there will be some "i need 4 of these" sorts of positions, but those will be much like current day blacksmiths, and glass blowers (both things I'd love to learn).

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  3. All this.. by undulato · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..so that you can tell people what you had for your breakfast. And then show them.

    1. Re:All this.. by larys · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it really seems like such a huge waste. For such a popular company, you'd think they'd maybe try to go a bit green or more eco-friendly. I remember the situation when I had to set up an account with the local energy company for my apartment -- they had said most energy was from nuclear, coal, or gas sources. You could opt to buy green power if you wanted to, actually, it was just a little more expensive per kilowatt hour. Anyway, with such a huge footprint on the world, it would be nice if they reduced their consumption footprint...

    2. Re:All this.. by joebagodonuts · · Score: 1

      Hydro-electric is pretty "green/eco-friendly".

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    3. Re:All this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for all the eco that was once river valley and is now ..... river.

    4. Re:All this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not when you share the limited hydro-electric generation capacity with the rest of the country. You can only produce so much hydro electric energy before having to fall back to less desirable methods. Every watt used by Facebook ultimately has to be replaced by other means for the rest of the electric grid.

    5. Re:All this.. by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never been to Prineville, OR. You could fill up 90% of that place with river and nobody would notice.

    6. Re:All this.. by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

      They'll be kitty corner to any geothermal power coming out of Newberry Volcano, maybe FB can tap into that. Or make up claims to be doing so, since the juice is going to be sent to CA anyway, from what I've read.

    7. Re:All this.. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Hydro may not be particularly environment-friendly on a local level, but the point is that it's fairly localized in its effects - it doesn't spew crappy stuff into atmosphere or groundwater. And, unlike most other purported green power sources, it can be used on a very large scale here and now - indeed, most of the biggest power plants in the world are hydro.

    8. Re:All this.. by vipw · · Score: 1

      They don't have to share with the whole country, just the region. Transmission loss is a big factor in how far electricity is distributed. The Pacific Northwest has lots of hydro power capacity, and that's precisely the reason it is so cheap.

    9. Re:All this.. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      U.S. does not have a single unified power grid, though - at least not on the scale where there's meaningful load balancing between the parts.

    10. Re:All this.. by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Your alternative is to cover it with solar panels? Thanks, but I'd prefer a lake.

    11. Re:All this.. by Malevolyn · · Score: 1

      I once got paid to make a Facebook app for the purpose of instructing a small company on the process. You just describe its exact purpose.

      --
      Your ad here.
    12. Re:All this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hydro-electric is pretty "green/eco-friendly"... unless you are a fish.

  4. I was going to post this to my Facebook feed.. by jamesjw · · Score: 4, Funny

    But then i'd be purpetuating the problem somewhat :)

    --
    -- If at first you don't succeed, lie!
  5. Facebook... by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    a source of pollution both on the Net and off.

    1. Re:Facebook... by larys · · Score: 2

      If beauty is truth, in my eyes, that sentence is gorgeous...

    2. Re:Facebook... by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Isn't this datacenter powered from hydroelectric power? I think everyone is against burning fossil fuels for power (yay environment!), but whatever environmental damage damming the columbia river did happened 70 years ago. In terms of cleanest, cheapest power, there are few places better suited for a datacenter.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    3. Re:Facebook... by kiwimate · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Aaand, bang, there goes the whole conversation. A flamebait comment that gets modded +5 insightful.

      Good night, Slashdot. You've reached the point of being more trouble to read in the hopes of finding some genuinely interesting and insightful comments than is worth my time.

    4. Re:Facebook... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't this datacenter powered from hydroelectric power? I think everyone is against burning fossil fuels for power (yay environment!), but whatever environmental damage damming the columbia river did happened 70 years ago. In terms of cleanest, cheapest power, there are few places better suited for a datacenter.

      Except that power is dumped onto a grid. If Facebook pulls 32megawatts from the grid, and the hydroelectric dam is providing it, then somebody else's coal plant (or nuclear) is making up the difference. Wasted electricity is wasted electricity.

    5. Re:Facebook... by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Although, In the NW, hydrolectric is something like 85% of the power grid.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    6. Re:Facebook... by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

      55.4% hydro in Oregon. This is down from 73.6% in 2000, according to the Energy Information Administration. The slack has been taken up by everybody's favorite fossil fuel, gas, at 17.6% in 2010, now at 28.4%.

    7. Re:Facebook... by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Yeah... in California. Washington State is a net-exporter of energey. Washington state exports most of their power generated to SF and LA. Its't true.
       
      So don't worry, the spotted owls in Washington won't be hurt by the power plants in 1800 miles away in Los Angeles - the 15 million people in the LA metro area are doing their best to filter their dirty air using their ULEV Priuses and with their lungs.
       
      If the people in LA want cleaner air, they're going to have to lobby their state legislature to provide more incentives for wind or nuclear energy. The fact that California is now having to compete with other entities and generate their own power isn't really Facebook's fault. That's just poor planing and a systemic failure on California's energy planning board's fault.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    8. Re:Facebook... by afabbro · · Score: 1

      55.4% hydro in Oregon. This is down from 73.6% in 2000, according to the Energy Information Administration. The slack has been taken up by everybody's favorite fossil fuel, gas, at 17.6% in 2010, now at 28.4%.

      Everyone's favorite fossil fuel is oil (and from it, gasoline). We don't burn oil or gasoline for electricity generation.

      We do however use a lot of natural gas, which does not come from fossils.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    9. Re:Facebook... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      We do however use a lot of natural gas, which does not come from fossils.

      Where do you think it comes from, Unicorn farts?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    10. Re:Facebook... by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

      "Gas" means NG to people who discuss energy a lot, sorry about the confusion. BTW the US is still the 3rd largest consumer of oil for power generation in the world, even after decades of struggling to do away with the need. This is courtesy HI and AK, the newest states, where it's still prohibitive economically to move away entirely from burning oil. Nationwide you also have many's the off-road and backup diesel generator too, of course.

    11. Re:Facebook... by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

      I think poster is revealing him/herself as a proponent of abiotic oil, or a Weak version thereof - the idea would be that only short chain hydrocarbons are being generated deep in the crust, if I'm guessing correctly. Thomas Gold pushed an abiotic source for gas but not oil, IIRC.

    12. Re:Facebook... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      A grid is a grid is a grid. It doesn't matter if the dam is in the Pacific Northwest and the usage is in New Mexico. If somebody is using an additional X amount of megawatts, then somebody has to produce an extra X amount of megawatts and it won't be coming from the hydroelectric dam unless it is grossly under utilized.

      I'm not sure how California fits into the discussion on what Facebook is doing in Oregon. California already imports most of their energy. Still doesn't change the equation that if somebody wants 23megawats of power, somebody, somewhere has to produce it and dump it on the grid -- and that production is most likely a coal fired plant.

    13. Re:Facebook... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Electrical production does not equate to use. If every power plant in the NW was hydroelectric that electricity is dumped on the grid and goes to wherever the grid goes, which is very far away from the location of the production. Unless you want to create your own isolated grid, the electricity you use is produced proportionately as to how it is produced on the grid. Unless the Northwest has found a way to route the electrons generated to only those people in the Northwest, the electricity they use is produced proportionately as to how it is produced on the grid, not in their locale.

    14. Re:Facebook... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That, and some forest fire prevention initiatives could go a long way to cleaning up their air.

  6. How much sooner by gmhowell · · Score: 1

    How much sooner do I have to give up internal combustion engines so that my girlfriend can play farmville? That indian from the 70's is gonna cry a helluva lot more than a single tear when he hears this news.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    1. Re:How much sooner by detritus. · · Score: 2

      Except he was a white guy who played an indian....

    2. Re:How much sooner by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Fuck ICEs. How much sooner will I be able to have an electric car because of all the development going into batteries because of the proliferation of portable devices?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:How much sooner by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Fuck ICEs. How much sooner will I be able to have an electric car because of all the development going into batteries because of the proliferation of portable devices?

      Keep on waiting. The engineering project got shelved in favor of coding "Farmville 3: the revenge of the pigs". Big money in Apps these days, don't cha know.

    4. Re:How much sooner by cynyr · · Score: 1

      So how do i plug in my electric car in the middle of winter in MN at my apartment when the charging station is under the 10' mound of snow from the parking lot? Also what is the range once I fire up the electric heater to make the -20F air into +100F air?

      P.S. All of the above based on a "normal" MN winter, not this sorry excuse for one we are having this year.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  7. Clean and cheap energy in Sweden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One approach to handle these large scale datacenters and their need for clean, uninterrupted and secure energy can be to do like Facebook and put them way up in northern Sweden:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/oct/27/facebook-green-datacentre-sweden-renewables

    / Jens

    1. Re:Clean and cheap energy in Sweden by geogob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or you could put your data center in Quebec, almost exclusively producing electricity from water and with little problem with cooling 10 months out of 12. There's a reason while so many aluminum plants are present in that Canadian province. Bonus : link the the Chicago network hub is easier from there than from northern Sweden.

      With data center like these, they can expect less than 0.03 $CAD per kWh.

    2. Re:Clean and cheap energy in Sweden by ciderbrew · · Score: 2

      Or you could (bride/ pay off / incentivise / lobby ) facebook to your town in return for jobs. Fuck the environment this is money for money.

    3. Re:Clean and cheap energy in Sweden by cynyr · · Score: 1

      I'm not sitting near my TMY3 data, what is the 0.4% day cooling day in Quebec? If it is below 90F or so you probably can economize all year long. Maybe toss a direct evap cooler in there just to be safe.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  8. You know there's something wrong with computing... by carlhaagen · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...when it costs more energy to blog about your breakfast than it does actually cooking it.

  9. AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by vikingpower · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If it takes as high a power consumption as that of an entire US county to let all these non-grown-ups post their weekend pics in order to make eachother even more envious, then that is one more solid argument against the whole Facebook craze. Down and away with it.

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    1. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      yes let's all stop using the internet.

      that power is nothing compared to the power it takes to slashdot a site or to the power it takes to run the machines used for reading facebook.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding? Without a place to store all of that inane drivel, some of those people might eventually end up here.

      I've already heard more than enough about people's morning dumps in various first posts over the years.

      --
      Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
    3. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by delinear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do you think all those people would do if they weren't using Facebook? It's not like we'd turn off Facebook and everyone then goes out and plants trees as an alternative. As a means for keeping in touch with friends and family I'd say a site like Facebook has got to be more energy efficient than, say, driving or flying out to visit people on a regular basis.

    4. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's nice to see that you don't even eat your own dogfood: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Viking-Power/153261434691082

    5. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Herpderp.

      Then someone would come up with something different that does the same thing and we'd be in the EXACT same situation. This is what we have, might as well use it (or in your case, buzzkillington, not).

      You're just bitching against FB because it's the cool thing to do. Hey, you're not that cool.

    6. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The power to post to my wall is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

    7. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by kiwimate · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And Slashdot is any better?

      At least Facebook allows you to delete your account (keeping data around is another story). Slashdot doesn't even bother pretending.

      How can I delete my account?

      You can't. The system needs to keep track of the users, so accounts are permanent. Don't sweat leaving unused accounts hanging around. It doesn't hurt anything.

    8. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Wovel · · Score: 1

      Non-grown-ups?

      You have not quite reached 2012 yet. You should go back a few years and feel superior in a different decade.

    9. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Don't give them any ideas.. It's because things aren't deleted that Slashdot has any value. How many other places can you so easily look 13 years into the past... and see people argue about the same things over and over again? You know there was a time when the journals had no spam?

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    10. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The difference between Slashdot and Facebook is that Slashdot is entirely public. Even Slashdot journals are world-readable, the most you can do is restrict who can comment on them. There is no point in deleting a Slashdot account, because anything you've ever posted is already public and may be mirrored by things like archive.org or the Google cache. There is a point in deleting a Facebook account, because it's a means of contacting you (users can't send messages to other Slashdot users), and because there is semi-private data associated with it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by vikingpower · · Score: 1

      Although you are anonymous and idipso et ergo a coward, I shall deign to respond. That is not the same vikingpower. Which you could have checked, did however not take the pains to do.

      --
      Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    12. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by kiwimate · · Score: 1

      It's also a great argument against Slashdot (non-grown-ups posting their rhetoric to engage in mutual onanism and accomplish zilch).

    13. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I heard on the news this morning that Facebook has finally filed papers with the SEC to go public. If it happens like every other Software IPO EVER the mass craptitude of the project will go to infinity soon after, as shareholders take profit at the expense of R&D.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    14. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't hold a high opinion of Facebook, but you're not familiar with Crook County, Oregon. It's in the center of the state, so you've got high desert, some farmland (uneconomical without irrigation), ranches, the Ochoco mountain range, and forest. It's home to 26,845 people and is twice the size of the "state" of Rhode Island.

    15. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      What do you think all those people would do if they weren't using Facebook?

      Personally, I was hoping they'd all hang themselves. But that's just me being unsocial again.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    16. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by treeves · · Score: 1

      You can also see that supposed degradation in the quality of /. posts and posters is just that : supposed. As in not entirely real. Things were not so much better ten years ago. Don't believe it? Read some of this.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    17. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by treeves · · Score: 1

      Oh, I forgot to say: read with your Comments Filter set to -1, otherwise you can't see what I mean.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    18. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by KahabutDieDrake · · Score: 1

      You are joking right? That's not even comparable, for starters I use my computer for a lot more than facebook. For continuance, MANY people I know use "facebook mobile" almost exclusively. And because you annoyed me, don't forget that the typical power draw of a modern desktop/laptop computer is around 600watts. Do you have any idea what the draw is for a 48u rack with storage? I've give you a hint, it's a lot closer to 1000watts PER U. Someone that actually builds out those machines can probably give us better details, but I think the point is salient already.

      In other news, the gas it takes to put produce in the grocery store is nothing compared to all the gas used by the customers who bought that produce. :stare:

    19. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Sorta depends. From my casual observations companies tend to remain product-focused for about two generations of leadership - the founder, and his hand-picked successor. If the founder sticks around the company can care about its customers for quite a while. If the founder leaves quickly and there is a lot of money to be had (thus giving the first successor a ton of cash), then it can be a fairly short time as anybody who actually cared cashes out fast.

      Now, founders can also run their companies into the ground for entirely different reasons, but usually it isn't because of a lack of R&D. It is hard for a software company to sustain success even when it isn't internally sabotaged.

    20. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by cynyr · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the part where Zukerberg will have 56.9% of the vote(while only having ~28% of the shares by value), meaning he can overrule any decisions made by shareholders/board.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    21. Re:AAF: Ammo Against Facebook by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Until, of course, the INEVITABLE hostile takeover that will wrest all control away from him. Once a company goes public, it's over. Heck, even if the hostile takeover doesn't happen- his 28% of the shares by value means his personal focus will switch from the vision of social media to the vision of keeping a high stock price. Which is always, always disastrous for R&D.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  10. And WHO pays? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    Utility / power grids are usually financed with tax money. That means taxpayer.

    Is Facebook paying for this upgrade? It damned well better be!!!

    1. Re:And WHO pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm, did you actually read anything? They're not building a new datacenter, they're commenting on a existing one that is currently a boon to the local economy there.

    2. Re:And WHO pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, and it says they are upgrading the power grid to support the next phase of the datacenter project. It is right there in the summary.

    3. Re:And WHO pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm, did you actually read anything? They're not building a new datacenter, they're commenting on a existing one that is currently a boon to the local economy there.

      Correction. *Facebook's paid-for study* says they are a boon to the local economy. There's no independent verification because the county couldn't be bothered to perform due diligence to verify taxpayer money wasn't being wasted.

    4. Re:And WHO pays? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Where do people like you live? I ask honestly, because I've never lived anywhere that people wouldn't kill for a high-tech datacenter to provide some real jobs close by. The only scenario I can imagine are where the road system is so bad that you already need 45 minutes to go a mile and bedroom communities in the suburbs where people would like to keep it all-residential. In the first case, you just insist upon road improvement. In the second, you'd need consent of the majority (in theory anyhow) before you changed zoning.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:And WHO pays? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I ask honestly, because I've never lived anywhere that people wouldn't kill for a high-tech datacenter to provide some real jobs close by

      Really? How many jobs? There was a story a few months ago about an Apple datacenter getting a few million in tax breaks and employing a total of 40 people. Datacenters are full of computers, not full of people. They require very few people on-site to keep things working. Anyone else can (and, for security reasons, often does) work off site and sometimes hundreds of miles away. Even the infrastructure that one requires tends not to produce much by way of jobs.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:And WHO pays? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Where I grew up, 40 tech-ish jobs would be welcome. Almost everyone professional is either a real estate agent, lawyer, or doctor - everyone else works in the service industry or construction. Not only that, but most of the service work is highly seasonal so unemployment is horrid 6 months out of the year. I left the area because I didn't see a real opportunity for engineers.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re:And WHO pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when is considered a real estate agent a profesional?

    8. Re:And WHO pays? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Where do people like you live? I ask honestly, because I've never lived anywhere that people wouldn't kill for a high-tech datacenter to provide some real jobs close by."

      I'll tell you where. I live in an area where large corporations came in, and formed "public/private partnerships", that is to say, deals exactly like that: tax breaks, reduced rates for electricity, etc. And the outcome more often than not was nothing short of rape of the taxpayer.

      We got rid of one such corporation not that long ago, and we are the better off for it.

      Don't assume such deals will bring money into your area. Especially if the corporation is not local. Cash flow analysis is key; you may just find that such an operation doesn't make your region much money after all, even if they do employ people.

    9. Re:And WHO pays? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Even jobs do not always pay for themselves.

      The largest employer in our area was an out-of-state corporation. They employed a lot of people, but they were also getting tax breaks, AND very much reduced rates for water and electricity. And they used a LOT of electricity.

      Also because they employed so many people for decades, they felt they could throw their weight around politically. They made themselves cushy business deals, and the aforementioned tax breaks, and utility rates, etc. And the politicians went along with it because, after all, they employed so many people. And there was a large union presence, too.

      But finally, somebody decided to study the actual cash flow into and out of the business. As it turned out, the money they were "saving" on taxes, water, and electricity -- all of which had to be made up by the local citizenry, of course, so it amounted to a subsidy -- PLUS the fact that the profits went to the corporate office in some other state, meant: not only were they not actually bringing much money into the area, but even with all the people they employed, they were probably actually draining money from the local economy.

      Armed with that information, the politicians stopped kissing their asses. They didn't like that, and tried threats: "If you don't give us the sweet deals we want, we are going to pack up our toys and go home!"

      The response?

      "Bye-bye!"

      You should have seen the looks on their faces.

    10. Re:And WHO pays? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Don't assume such deals will bring money into your area.

      True, but in this case it is an existing installation that is expanding. Either the people are happy with Facebook or they are not. If they are, the expansion is almost a no-brainer.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  11. Energy per user by jones_supa · · Score: 0

    Well, if we only count the Oregon data center (28 MW) and Wikipedia tells FB has 800 million active users, that alone makes it average 35kW to serve one person. :S

    1. Re:Energy per user by lazy_playboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      28,000,000 / 800,000,000 = 0.035 Watts/user

    2. Re:Energy per user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Does the ridiculous figure you come up with not make you question your working? 35 electric fires constantly on per user of facebook? In one datacentre? Are you high?

      I pray you are not in any science or engineering disciplines ...

      0.035 Watts/user you spoon

    3. Re:Energy per user by Tassidus · · Score: 1

      +1 for using the insult spoon!

    4. Re:Energy per user by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Funny

      Does the ridiculous figure you come up with not make you question your working? 35 electric fires constantly on per user of facebook? In one datacentre? Are you high?

      My calculation was sponsored by the Green Party.

    5. Re:Energy per user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      +1 for conspiracy theory inserted into a man-up to your mistake post.

    6. Re:Energy per user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean 35 Milliwatt? OK, it's just 6 orders of magnitude you are wrong, the number itself was correct... :-p

    7. Re:Energy per user by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2

      28,000,000 / 800,000,000 = 0.035 Watts/user

      If they only had one data centre.

      They have a European data centre in Sweden, and has at least nine across the US
      br.That's still only 0.35W per user, but an order of magnitude is huge no matter who you ask.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    8. Re:Energy per user by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      It's conceivable that all the datacenters aren't 35MW.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:Energy per user by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      You know those people who claim the Earth is 10,000 years old? You are twice as wrong as them.

      Do you think about your answers for even a split second to see if they make any sense at all?

  12. Crook County by dabadab · · Score: 5, Informative

    I looked it up so you don't have to: Crook County is inhabited by 20k people, its economy largely consists of agriculture and tourism so it's no wonder that they do not use massive amounts of electricity.

    --
    Real life is overrated.
    1. Re:Crook County by Seumas · · Score: 2

      Same here. Why would anyone be surprised that a data center that serves about one billion people uses more power than a county with less than 20,000?

    2. Re:Crook County by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we sure somebody isn't leeching off the FB DC power lines to light up their basement for 'agricultural' purposes.
      You don't think that Crook County would be full of honest farmers, do you?

    3. Re:Crook County by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      When I was a kid, my family would go to Prineville reservoir in the Summer. I think we doubled the population.

    4. Re:Crook County by faedle · · Score: 1

      This.

      If you live in the Pacific Northwest, it's a bit of a fun drive to head out to Prineville and play "Spot the Datacenter." It's so out of place it's real easy to spot. It took me all of about 10 minutes of driving around to find it.

    5. Re:Crook County by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      This.

      If you live in the Pacific Northwest, it's a bit of a fun drive to head out to Prineville and play "Spot the Datacenter." It's so out of place it's real easy to spot. It took me all of about 10 minutes of driving around to find it.

      Wow. Things must be getting pretty dull down there if is it's a 'bit of fun' to go look for a datacenter. Don't you all have Starbucks or anything?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:Crook County by ejasons · · Score: 1

      Wow. Things must be getting pretty dull down there if is it's a 'bit of fun' to go look for a datacenter. Don't you all have Starbucks or anything?

      What else are you gonna do after all the cows have already been tipped?

    7. Re:Crook County by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      ... pretty dull down there if is it's a 'bit of fun' to go look for a datacenter. Don't you all have Starbucks or anything?

      Why? So we could use wi-fi to get to Facebook?

      --
      That is all.
  13. We can only hope by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    It'd be a pity if they got raided by the DEA. A real pity.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:We can only hope by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      With all the pictures of people doing illegal substances I'm sure are on Facebook, I would think having the DEA raid the place for evidence isn't that far of a stretch.

  14. How much is 28 Megawatt? by gnasher719 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A few years ago I visited a nuclear power station, and 28 Megawatt was about the output of the ship's diesel engine that they had on standby for emergency power supply to be able to run cooling systems etc. in case the power station itself breaks down and it can't get power from other power stations. I think it is also about what a large cruise ship needs for all its electrical needs. Seems to be a very small county that they are talking about.

    1. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by tsadi · · Score: 2

      You're right, 28MW is not a lot. I've seen a 20MW diesel generator, and the engine is just a little bigger than a construction dump truck.

    2. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I've seen a 1.21 GW generator too and it's only the size of a DeLorean.

    3. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen a 1.21 GW generator too and it's only the size of a DeLorean.

      I'm pretty sure that was 1.21 JW.

    4. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by vlm · · Score: 4, Informative

      The most obvious comparison is its about 10 or so modern diesel electric locomotive engines, if you assume 2500 or so HP per engine, which is probably not a bad guess for your average generic engine... Spare me the anecdote that there exist like 4 Aclea Express engines in the USA that have 6000 HP, and I'm well aware coming from a three generation railroad family that there are some astounding coal haulers out there.

      There are probably more than 10 diesels in my county right now... coal plant, despite the best efforts of the govt some industry still remains, multiple short range commuter rail and also some long range commuter rail, multiple intermodal transfer stations, a small but respectable great lakes "sea"port (which is admittedly frozen in right now)

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by b0dge · · Score: 1

      I've always thought it was a mispronounciation of "Giga-Watt"...

    6. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

      More importantly, how are we going to get that amount of power? The only thing capable of generating that power is a bolt of lightning. Unfortunately, you never know when or where a bolt of lightning will strike.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    7. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by TopSpin · · Score: 1

      Here are some nice images of a 280MW coal fired power station in the US. This facility will power up to 10 of the Facebook data centers in question. There are also a few recently added 65MW GE 7EA turbines on the site, each capable of running two of these data centers.

      BTW, those GE 7 frame turbines are common as dirt today with the rapid growth in natural gas power generation. GE can't build them fast enough.

      --
      Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
    8. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by lambent · · Score: 1

      it's not a mispronunciation, per se. it's a perfectly acceptable alternative, which i've typically only haerd used by older generations of foreign engineers/physicists.

      so, it's more like an idiomatic pronunciation.

    9. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by dj245 · · Score: 1

      You make it seem like 28MW is not a lot of power. It actually is. Its the rough equivalent of about 23,000 households. If you burned coal to get it, it is about 40-60 semitrailer loads of coal every day. If you burned wood chips, the figure is about the same.

      If you were using a gas turbine burning natural gas, a suitable gas turbine such as an LM2500 (rarely used for utility power generation, but an equivalent power level) sucks down a semitrailer full of natural gas in 10 minutes. At idle.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    10. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by vlm · · Score: 1

      You make it seem like 28MW is not a lot of power.

      Its not. That's maybe a dozen un-noteworthy industrial facilities, or maybe a single really big one. One medium size heavy equipment place I worked at had dozens of CNC mills and lathes, working "most of the time" admittedly not 24x7 and not peak spindle power all the time, but it all realistically added up to a MW, especially when you add the multiple arc welding robot arm thingies (again, probably only one was working at any given time) and the plasma cutter farm which seemed to run continuously and the cranes everywhere. It was comfy in the winter without extra heating, but in the summer it got pretty uncomfortable even with ventilation. They also had a powder coating oven the size of a commercial garage (had to be, some parts in there were 30 feet long) that drew a good fraction of a megawatt just for the oven alone. At those kind of power/interference levels, you can't run copper cat-5 and wifi range is ruined by the plasma cutters (at least in those days) so it was all cheap multimode fiber thru the plant, which kept me busy.

      28 MW would be something like the worlds smallest steel mill, or maybe the world smallest aluminum refinery? I'm not sure its economically possible at that small of a size. Maybe with govt subsidies? Thats only 56 five hundred HP motors, which is not much of a steel mill. 28 MW would probably be just about right for a ore refinery, those rock crushers are really hungry for power.

      Lets think of just light bulbs at a VERY small building. I work in the smallest "skyscraper" in the downtown area. Its almost embarrassing to call it a skyscraper, but its not exactly a strip mall either. 40 watt fluorescent light bulbs * 2 per fixture * 20 fixtures across * 20 fixtures down (probably much higher across and down, but there's so many walls to estimate around and closets, yet the hallways are more brightly lit, so...) * 5 floors / 1e6 watts per megawatt means the wimpiest downtown office building in a fairly small city draws more than 1/8 megawatt just to light it up. It costs 16 bucks per hour just to pay for the lights, roughly. Retail space seems more brightly lit... I would guess a walmart or a strip mall might draw a pretty healthy chunk of a MW just to light it up.

      This is before we get into radio and TV where admittedly 50 KW station is only 0.05 MW but, even in a small market, our radio dial is pretty full and I count 8 OTA TV stations, so it multiplies up pretty quick.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    11. Re:How much is 28 Megawatt? by dj245 · · Score: 1

      As a steam turbine engineer who works with 1000MW machines routinely, I can appreciate that compared to the overall grid, this is a piddly amount of power. But we can't be blinded by the national scale when considering one facility. "Comparatively this is less than" is not a great argument for energy efficiency or value created. The amount of fossil fuels burned to support this one datacenter over its lifetime is staggering, and the value produced is honestly somewhat frivolous- a significant fraction of the power used is utilized in serving up Zynga games after all.

      Maybe the problem is that energy is too cheap. The US has some of the cheapest electricity in the world for 1st and 2nd world countries. The party isn't going to last forever.

      As for your office building, our landlord recently replaced all the T12 bulbs with T8 bulbs of greater efficiency. It cut the power bill in half, and the lighting was brighter if anything.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  15. That's absolutely huge by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    28 Megawatts comes to a little over 20GWh per month. If I were to pay my residential rate, that would cost me a cool $2.2 Million per month.

  16. What a waste of energy by EmagGeek · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Why are we allowing a company to consume precious resources just so people can tell the world when they take a dump?

    1. Re:What a waste of energy by equex · · Score: 1

      Thats the free market. If there's a market for telling people when they took a dump, someone will provide the service.

      --
      Can I light a sig ?
    2. Re:What a waste of energy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why are we allowing a company to consume precious resources just so people can tell the world when they take a dump?

      Mainly because different people's perceptions of what is and isn't important varies massively. Personally I'm not a fan of Facebook and I don't have an account, but friends of mine tell me it's incredibly useful for keeping in touch with old lab mates who have since moved abroad to country X or who are stuck at home writing their thesis, for sharing videos, organising nights out, etc.

      Your opinion of "I think such and such a thing is pointless, why should we let it consume precious resources" could be used to justify stopping pretty much everything by somebody who objects to it (which in a world as populated and politically varied as ours, would occurr with pretty much everything). Besides, isn't one of the classical justifications for hacking in the inventive and tinkering-with-stuff sense "why does it have to have a purpose? I did it because I thought it was neat"? Whether or not you agree with their opinion of it, a large number of people find it interesting/helpful/entertaining.

    3. Re:What a waste of energy by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Which is what future archeologists will be asking:

      "This site must have consumed so much power . . . to store all this crap . . . we must be missing something! There is something important here hidden in secret code . . . "

      " . . . or most of the people on the planet at that time were frivolous imbeciles . . . "

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    4. Re:What a waste of energy by squizzar · · Score: 2

      Like drawing pictures of your hum drum day-to-day activities on the walls of your cave?

      Or the diaries of Samuel Pepys?

    5. Re:What a waste of energy by delinear · · Score: 1

      How is being able to update everyone you know about the banal activities of your average day any less economical than having to go visit them individually to do the same thing (when you factor in transport, etc)? It's only a waste of energy if you assume people not using Facebook sit alone at home in quiet contemplation.

    6. Re:What a waste of energy by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      As an amateur historian - If I were a future historian (say 500 years from now), I'd just about commit genocide to get access to a couple of days worth of Facebook posts. That kind of access to the records of the daily concerns and activities of the masses is a pearl beyond price. Yes, there's a lot of dreck and minutiae to sort through - but there's also things like current political activities, current daily activities, etc... etc... for millions of people.

    7. Re:What a waste of energy by trum4n · · Score: 1

      The problem here: Now stupid people's thoughts will be archived, not just the smart few.

    8. Re:What a waste of energy by Legion303 · · Score: 2

      Good gravy, where do you people get your facts?

      Twitter is for telling the world when you take a dump. Facebook is for "liking" when your Twitter friends take a dump. The more you know [tm].

    9. Re:What a waste of energy by mcavic · · Score: 1

      Facebook isn't entirely frivolous. Mostly, but not entirely. But they will be saying "why did they need so many damn servers?"

    10. Re:What a waste of energy by ifrag · · Score: 1

      But they will be saying "why did they need so many damn servers?"

      Reminds me of that story about how Facebook gets something like half the performance out of the same server hardware as Google. Too lazy to find link to it.

      --
      Fear is the mind killer.
    11. Re:What a waste of energy by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      If I were a historian 500 years from now and had to read through a couple of days of Facebook posts, I'd commit suicide.

      I mean really, 10 minutes and you're there. And back again.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    12. Re:What a waste of energy by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I would think you could de dup Facebook and get what, 10 MB of unique content. That's if you included the passwords.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  17. Virtual Countries? Virtual World? by Tassidus · · Score: 1

    It's quite amusing really. With 800 million users and 50% of them logging on every day (Facebook's stats, not stating they are correct), virtual currencies, ways to communicate and now the fact that to power one website, it requires more energy than a state, do you think there is a chance that we'll get some sort of virtual political presence, with countries banding together to form internet UNs, military coups and dictatorships, just like in the real world? Take the following scenario: - The internet becomes a second "world", not restricted to any particular country but, as it should be, a truly free medium made up of nodes surrounding the globe. (possibly moon hosted facilities to try to make it truly independent) - As a world, you start to get "countries". Facebook, youtube, google. - They get political power to shape the internet and form standards, rules and potentially laws based on it. - Anonymous (bit scary), another UN style thing (in which case do anonymous become terrorists?) or nobody at all policies it, leading to extremely fun sci-fi anarchistic environments So, given that situation, what do you see happening?

  18. Entire county by Trogre · · Score: 3, Funny

    Did anyone else read that as Country? That would have been news-worthy.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    1. Re:Entire county by Cimexus · · Score: 1

      It could be one very small country :) Like, I dunno, Vatican City.

    2. Re:Entire county by FrootLoops · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's what I thought initially. The CIA World Factbook includes electricity consumption statistics for many countries and regions. Note that they're listed in kWh per year; 28 MW translates to about 245,000,000 kWh per year. This puts the data center at around #174 on that list, ahead of Rwanda, Eritrea, Belize, Bhutan, Chad, and Tonga, to pick a few (though note that the data for many of those countries is a few years old, so they may have moved up). For comparison, the entire US is listed at 3,741,000,000,000 kWh per year. This data center is then around 0.007% of the US's power usage.

      Since there are something like 3000 counties in the US, assuming uniform distribution, an average sized county would have 1/3000 = ~0.033% of the country's electricity consumption. This county then has around 7/33 ~= 21% of the average population. That average would be ~300 million / 3000 = 100,000 people per county: and indeed, Crook County, Oregon has approximately 21,000 = 100,000 * 21% people. So actually the electricity consumption of the county appears to be quite average, even though it sounds rural from the Wikipedia page.

    3. Re:Entire county by eternaldoctorwho · · Score: 1

      I sure did. In fact, I was going to ask the question: how can the data center use as much as the country....when it is in the country? Oh, my kingdom for a well-placed "An"....

    4. Re:Entire county by faedle · · Score: 1

      Ever been to Eastern Oregon? It kinda is it's own little country.

    5. Re:Entire county by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's an extra in case you ever say anything at a later date that causes someone to ask you to turn in your geek card.

    6. Re:Entire county by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Vatican City, thanks to "The Green Pope", is carbon neutral and now runs mostly on solar. Plus, it's smaller than Crook County.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    7. Re:Entire county by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -in the US, assuming uniform distribution,

      Ain't done much Driving around these here united states have you?

  19. And if it moves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the county is expanding their power works and facebook moves its datacenter elsewhere, how used is the county going to feel?

    1. Re:And if it moves? by delinear · · Score: 1

      So the answer to making yourself attractive to large business investment only to have the business later move away is to just not make yourself attractive to large business at all? Sure it's a risk, but Facebook aren't the only company in the world that could make use of such a data centre, and if they're already in your back yard that gives you a massive advantage in trying to keep them there versus some other county/country trying to lure them away.

  20. They must have alot of data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They must have alot of personal data if they need this much power

  21. Handier unit by srussia · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Gore (G). The power consumption at Al Gore's house in August 2007 was around 23,000 kWh.

    That gives an average draw of around 30kW.

    So this baby sucks a nice round 1 kiloGore (1kG).

    --
    Set your phasers on "funky"!
    1. Re:Handier unit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spare us the gore-y details.

    2. Re:Handier unit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So this baby sucks a nice round 1 kiloGore (1kG).

      Metric or imperial kiloGore?

    3. Re:Handier unit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      binary

  22. Spying on people is costly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

  23. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

    ..when it costs more energy to blog about your breakfast than it does actually cooking it.

    You can do both at the same time on a Pentium 4.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  24. So what's happening with all the waste heat then? by advocate_one · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Article's a bit light on any details... but that facility has to deal with all that heat somehow... and using it to provide heating for local residents would be a very good use of it.

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  25. Which is why the interest in .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    increasing the power efficiency of electronics, esp, the CPU.

  26. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ladies and gentleman we have 2001 on the line, hold on...

    Oh, they DON'T want their Pentium 4 joke back.

    You can keep it!

  27. misread that by strack · · Score: 2

    i read that as country. i shit bricks for a fraction of a second. but thats long enough.

    1. Re:misread that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you post an update about this on Facebook too?

    2. Re:misread that by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      Actually a few particularly underdeveloped countries are below the data center in electricity consumption (eg. Rwanda; Bhutan). I put the details in a comment above under the "Entire county" thread.

    3. Re:misread that by treeves · · Score: 1

      OT: my guess is that it would take longer than "a fraction of a second" to truly shit a brick. Perhaps tens of minutes. Sorry.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  28. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And how soon now until some wag posts "OMG, did you warn them about..." along with a link to the xkcd. It'll be hilarious because we totally haven't seen it before.

    It's not Randall's fault, but, xkcd is a cancer on the Internet strangling creativity. Nerds need to stop repeating their boring catchphrases constantly.

  29. blackpeoplemeet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Is you is, or is you ain't, a black people?

    http://blackpeoplemeet.com/

  30. Re:So what's happening with all the waste heat the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use the heat to generate electricity for the datacenter!

  31. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    It's not Randall's fault, but, xkcd is a cancer on the Internet strangling creativity.

    If you were right, it WOULD be his fault, because he's the one making it. But you're wrong, because if it weren't for xkcd, we'd just have more star wars quotes or something.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  32. Re:So what's happening with all the waste heat the by tgd · · Score: 1

    Article's a bit light on any details... but that facility has to deal with all that heat somehow... and using it to provide heating for local residents would be a very good use of it.

    There's a reason, outside of extremely dense cities, you don't see heat distribution happen -- its horrendously inefficient and expensive.

    Crook County is farm-country.

  33. Be "green"! by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    Close your FaceBook account.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  34. Phased by phases by mattjk · · Score: 1

    Hope they've got 30MW on the second and third phases too.

  35. Re:So what's happening with all the waste heat the by faedle · · Score: 1

    Part of the reason Prineville is attractive is the local ambient temperature. Many of the datacenter projects (including Facebook) in eastern Oregon use ambient outside air to cool the datacenter most of the year.

  36. Challenge To Facebook by assertation · · Score: 1

    I wish someone who couldn't be ignored would make a public challenge to Facebook to make greener data centers. Combine all of the modern power conservation technology with all of the new clean renewable power generation tech they can reasonably afford.

    Basically, when you read Facebook in the United States you are burning coal.

    1. Re:Challenge To Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do some basic research before you post. The Facebook Prineville datacenter is the most electrically efficient datacenter every built. The entire design, from the power & cooling to the servers themselves has been open sourced. Have a look at them yourself, and if you're such a damn efficiency expert IMPROVE upon them and Facebook will likely adopt your suggestions. Otherwise STFU.

  37. Re:So what's happening with all the waste heat the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Heat an indoor water park then.

  38. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by Pope · · Score: 1

    It's not Randall's fault, but, xkcd is a cancer on the Internet strangling creativity. Nerds need to stop repeating their boring catchphrases constantly.

    Laffo. Because one guy with a crudely drawn comic is somehow bringing down the entire internet. Get a grip.

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  39. Not a lot. by Wovel · · Score: 2

    It is funny how a grossly misleading story can make everyone on /. think this is a lot of power. I know a lot of the posters are trying to feel superior, but using more power than a rural county in Oregon is in no way significant.

  40. Why does slashdot hate facebook so much? by simula67 · · Score: 1

    Facebook is one of the most open companies in the world, more open than *gasp* Google. They have open sourced most of their data center and hardware designs, internal tools etc which are kicking ass in other companies across the world, note that this is something that Google does not do. They open source stuff only outside their own core businesses and closely guard in secrecy their most revenue generating products. Facebook's mission itself is making the world more open and connected. So why is the pro - open source (free) /. crowd so incensed about Facebook? Because sheeples hand over their private data to Facebook willingly?

  41. Crook County by swbirding · · Score: 1

    I am not a fan of Facebook or Twitter, they are both pretty trite, but it is worth noting that the counties of eastern Oregon are not heavily populated -- this is not east coast or California folks. Although 30 aMW is a lot of power, that is relative, for an industrial or commercial complex it really is not that significant. The title of the post is really a misrepresentation, factually true but misleading to anyone who doesn't know the facts.

  42. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  43. Promised a pal I'd note his facebook results on /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A buddy of mine just ended a 4++ yr. long relationship he had going with a woman, & was finally "out on the market again" to meet somebody else - he NEEDED to, because it turned up she was screwing around on him for 6++ months & living w/ him too!

    (Yea - I felt bad for him, he didn't do the same to her is why mostly... that, & I do HATE to see people, especially GOOD people, being "suckered" that way as well - plus, he WAS very "messed up" over it (tears, constantly talking about it, etc./et al)).

    Anyhow/anyways:

    He's been using facebook to do so. He's dated (and "done well" with mind you) 3 new ladies already, and how? Facebook.

    I asked him, verbatim, this question:

    "Do you feel that facebook's improved your social/love life?"

    His reply, verbatim:

    "Oh, man, absolutely! 1000%..."

    * The "moral of this story"? Heh - who CARES how much juice facebook eats, when it's helping fellas all over the planet get over their "emotional hassles" (lol, even though I have seen him get "new dogs with diff. fleas" in 1 of the women he's been dating, but? Hey, it's gotten him over the worst of a breakup!).

    Is it the "best way" for him to "get over it"? I dunno, maybe it's too much of the "co-dependence" stuff, but as long as it makes him less messed up (and this breakup screwed my buddy "M" up, hard), it's fine by me (him too, lol).

    I even told him I'd post this about his feelings & results from facebook usage and, here on /. too no less...

    Especially since he thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread pretty much, and, specifically for the purposes described here - seems to work for him too!

    APK

    P.S.=> Is he using facebook as a 'crutch' to get over his last big relationship? Yes, no questions asked, but as a pal of mine said to me decades ago when I went thru the same thing "The best cure for a woman is another new woman"... there's SOME wisdom to that (as long as you practice "safe you-know-what" & what-not), because it actually USUALLY works (yes, it's substituting one of the same as a fix for the "hair of the dog that bit you" but it does work as I am sure you all know & have been there for too... I know I have!).

    ... apk

  44. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    It's not Randall's fault, but, xkcd is a cancer on the Internet strangling creativity. Nerds need to stop repeating their boring catchphrases constantly.

    Because before xkcd nerds never repeated catchphrases from, for example, Monty Python...

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  45. Re:You know there's by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

    Finish your pancakes. Somebody in Iowa had to Farmville for two hours to grow those.

  46. Move to ARM servers by twoblink · · Score: 0

    They should move to ARM based servers and chuck x86.

  47. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by jeffmeden · · Score: 0

    At least Monty Python quotes required the gift of allegory in order to match them up with nerd events... With XKCD you literally respond to a post with a meme straight from "the one time that happened on XKCD" and call it a day. Even car analogies were better. I would rather have to think a little than see the same tired stick figure recounting the exact thing the slashdot thread was about.

  48. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I drove last summer through Prineville (a shithole) on my way to John Day (an even bigger shithole) I didn't notice any influx of millions into the local economy. I did however get my tank filled by a gas attendant who was thin as a rail, looked 85 and was missing all his front teeth, so we know good old meth is alive and well in Prineville....

  49. Re:PHP - work per watt? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

    They built their own PHP compiler so that their PHP code is actually running as machine code.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  50. Re:Facebook...Celilo Falls by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

    Lest We forget- The environmental damage caused 70 years ago changed the economy of 8 states- a trading network that had been in place for 10,000 years.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  51. Re: power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't know how much electricity the datacenters use. Thanks for posting the article.

  52. Fad? by Dripdry · · Score: 1

    Was talking with the g-friend last night, and the idea that Facebook is just a fad, and maybe a bit like LSD.
    She mentioned a quote about how friending someone is just inviting them to partake in our self-aggrandizing hall of mirrors (or something like that). People seem so concentrated on themselves, Facebook is SO big, how can it not be altering people's behavior? Is that behavior really for the better?
    Personally, I think it will fade. However, never underestimate people's preponderance with themselves... maybe it'll just be another opiate for the masses?

    So, a bit off topic, but hope it contributes to the larger discussion.

    --
    -
    1. Re:Fad? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      So, a bit off topic, but hope it contributes to the larger discussion.

      Perhaps you should post it on Facebook.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Fad? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Was talking with the g-friend last night,
      you have a friend on Google+ ? wow.

  53. So? by hey! · · Score: 1

    Whenever you're given a comparison like this, you ought to look closely at the things being compared.

    Crook County OR has roughly 21 thousand residents spread out over almost three thousand square miles. The urban suburb I grew up in (Somerville, MA) has over *75* thousand residents crammed into four square miles. For that matter the Queensbridge Housing Project in NYC has almost seven thousand residents in an area about 20-30 acres. You could say, "Facebook's data center uses two and a half times theenergy as the households in a two block radius of the intersection of 41st Ave and 12th St in New York," or, "Facebook uses about as much power as the entire Union Square neighborhood in Somerville, MA." Doesn't sound quite as shocking, does it?

    Yes, Facebook's datacenter uses an impressive amount of power, but it's not exactly surprising that it is so large relative to the rest of the county. No doubt they chose the location because it had a lot of electricity generation potential relative to local demand.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  54. Re:delete your account by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

    I (thought I) deleted my Facebook account a couple months ago (according to their directions, you can't try to log back in to make sure it's deleted, as that will reactivate it), and lately I've been getting emails about people posting things in their facebook accounts. I get the feeling that it isn't really deleted.

  55. Re:So what's happening with all the waste heat the by Bug-Y2K · · Score: 1

    www.opencompute.org

    Facebook's datacenter and server design has been open sourced. They use the waste heat to bring outside air UP to datacenter cooling temperatures.

  56. Re:You know there's something wrong with computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in order to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

    http://xkcd.com/244/

  57. Delorean anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should see what happens when the data center reaches 88 mph!

  58. Re:So what's happening with all the waste heat the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What waste heat? It all goes to shoving bits at your mom so she can post nudie pictures.