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Microsoft Releases Kinect For Windows
nk497 writes "Microsoft has released Kinect for Windows, featuring a new "near mode" that lets the gesture control tech be used as close as 40cm. The Kinect for Windows hardware will retail at $249 — well above the price of the version for Xbox 360 consoles. Microsoft defended the price difference, saying sales of games and Xbox Live subscriptions help subsidize the console version. The new version will support Windows 7 and the Windows 8 developer preview, as well as Windows Embedded 7 devices."
I've been waiting a long time !!
i JU-st P000000steD tHIz using mi NEw keNe C t!
Considering the tech they're supplying. If you bought similar tech for a hobby robot or something, I'd bet the price would be even higher. (I don't know if that's the case as I haven't done hobby robotics since the RCX Lego Programmable Brick. Ah, memories)
Maybe they need to rev the hardware to give it a fisheye lens, because the FOV on the damn thing as it is now makes me stand like eight feet away ... which is on top of my couch. I find overall that the voice control is nice, the rest is just an annoying gimmick.
Looks like Windows 8 touch interface is already outdated. Don't bother with the Kinect, mind control will be available soon.
How about that reading comprehension. The console version is cheaper due to Xbox live subs, and the PC version has no Xbox live to support the cost. Im still calling bullshit on the price but call it in the correct manner, otherwise you make us sound worse than the retards who willingly buy this crap.
I thought OpenNI's implementation was supposed to be pretty darn good (compared to say the freenect drivers) as far as offering more options / tools. Just looking at their APIs shows how much you can really do. What I don't understand is this 'Kinect for Windows': is the difference just updated code..?
"... Microsoft has already confirmed that the Kinect will ... not even run on Windows PCs that aren't also running the developer's kit and using the device otherwise may actually void the warranty."
http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2012/01/ces-2012-kinect-for-windows-doesnt-mean-youll-be-playing-games-on-your-pc.html
So if you are not a developer, save your money.
Since I'm too lazy to RTFA, is the embedded device SDK meant to bring Kinect functionality to embedded devices/phones using your phone's built-in camera and mic? Or do you get to plug your Kinect into your phone and bring it with you on the bus?
Kinect?
you could open and close Windows without using a mouse.
Windows can be rebooted without touching the keyboard. What a monumental advance.
Well games and live subs. PS3 and Xbox360 were sold at a loss for most of their life, though newer revisions have been cheap enough on the manufacturing cost to turn that around, even if only slightly. Its only the Wii (and DS) in the current 'generation' where the console itself was also a profit center, hence the 'it prints money' jokes.
INB4 "obvious MS bashing" Maybe they deserve some ridicule.
Do you really need to type that you are "INB4" a response--any response--to your own post?
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Windows can be rebooted without touching the keyboard. What a monumental advance.
As someone higher up already said, MS is late to the party.
I've been rebooting my Windows machine for years without touching the keyboard. I use my boot.
No, really -- there's a Reset button on the front of the box, which sits under my desk. So when Windows is acting up, I kick the button. (Admittedly, less frequently as time has passed and they've ironed out the bugs.)
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
inresponse2 doesn't have the same ring. :p
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
I can't believe MS hasn't gone bankrupt yet, nobody likes their products.
Microsoft is one of the most successful companies from the last 2 decades. Your lack of touch with reality is staggering.
Then there's the other 3rd party companies who ALSO beat them to market, and with cheaper products. Microsoft's innovation is staggering.
Where are the sub $140 RGBD sensors that beat Kinect to market?
So wait, its more expensive? And there's going to be less games that use it. (see: none) Few if any will buy it, so nobody will waste time developing AAA games that use it, so nobody will buy it, so nobody will develop for it...
This isn't just about games anymore. This isn't even just about desktop PCs. We're talking about the ability to build customized solutions using Kinect sensors for commercial sale and educational applications.
So without mainstream games, who is this supposed to appeal to?
Companies looking to commercialize and educational institutions, as evidenced by the commercial license and educational pricing.
So without mainstream games, who is this supposed to appeal to? The very hackers who already got it working, because they wanted it? Whoops.
People who don't want to go through the hassle of hacking it. It's relatively easy if you have the know how. But in many ways it's a pain in the ass. Nothing is easier than plugging it into windows and clicking "install" and having access to everything. Plus, the Windows SDK has access to much more advanced features you don't get with the hacked versions, including access to Windows speech recognition engine (which is very good) as well as bangarang skeletal tracking with a few lines of code. With the hacked API, you get sensor streams and that's it. You have to leverage several different architectures in order to get the functionality the Windows SDK provides. Microsoft is offering a better learning curve and that is worth something.
But if that is the case, why not just add that software capability to Windows?!
Windows 7 can already handle voice commands. Search for "Speech recognition" in the start menu.
The rest of your post is just blind nerd-rage.
That's the old kinect. This one has different sensor capabilities.
How about realizing that it's a money grab.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210649/Kinect-s-BOM-roughly--56--teardown-finds-
Don't forget to add in assembly costs, RND, plastics, tooling, packaging etc. Obviously these things go down over time, but I'd estimate there would be an extra $5-$10 in cost, at the least. So lats say $70 cost to MS. This $249 price gives MS roughly a 20%-35% profit on each one, depending on what their wholesale price is. Hardly looks like a money grab to me.
That article is bunk, at least as far as supporting your assertion. It's a very basic, estimated BOM breakdown, excluding all development, marketing, support, distribution, retailer profit at about 5 or 6%, etc.
Being economically successful does not mean that people like your products. Why do you think windows phone is failing miserably? Just utter the word "windows" near any regular joe and they will immediately associate it to viruses, trojans, slowness and that dreaded computer that always seems to be acting on its own. It's only the enterprise market that's keeping microsoft afloat. That, and the monumental monopoly that they got on the desktop thanks to their antitrust violations during the 90's.
User: Fuuuus-DOH-sah! Healing. (Raise left hand)
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Yeah, those hackers totally put out Kinect before Microsoft... wait...
I mean, you realize the difference between "hacking on an existing product" and "getting an improved version of an existing product and a release-ready SDK out for sale", right?
They aren't integrating it into windows like with the xbox's OS though, and they're certainly not marketing it. They're too busy talking about how you can do magic with "the cloud"!
I guess "educational software" was the answer. Doesn't seem like educational software with kinect controls has a huge demand though, educational software alone is a pretty small niche, and I don't see how gesture controls would help that much. The more gesture-based you make it, the more it becomes a game and the less it becomes a learning tool. It just seems like you can get all the same learning with a mouse interface, and children aren't exactly afraid to use a mouse. If anything, the whole wii movement controls was more of a hit with adults and elderly and non-gamers.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
You wanna mod me uninformative or flamebait, maybe I'd understand, but troll? I'm being quite genuine with my feelings here. I don't see this selling.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
That, and the monumental monopoly that they got on the desktop thanks to their antitrust violations during the 90's.
They achieved a monopoly by being a monopoly?
1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
WINE version. Where is it?
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
You don't tend to advertise enterprise systems the same way as you do consumer systems. Also, your lack of comprehension on its uses fairly clearly demonstrates your lack of vision, intuition, and innovation. It is a niche product, yes, but its evident you don't understand that the world is filled with such.
They aren't integrating it into windows like with the xbox's OS though, and they're certainly not marketing it.
I'm assuming you're referring to speech recognition here? True they're not marketing it, but it's deeply integrated into the OS. In fact I can perform just about any function the mouse can, even web browse. It's not perfect, but I use it all the time when I'm away from the keyboard. You can even make macros. I have one I use to bring up weather and traffic information in the morning when I'm getting ready for work.
I guess "educational software" was the answer.
Not educational software, but for education. As in computer vision and robotics education/research. We just bought 15 kinect sensors for my lab to use for a course in computer vision next semester. We use the kinect all the time in our research. The only reason we didn't buy these new sensors is because we can't wait for the educational pricing to go live. I imagine most computer science departments around the world will want to have a fleet of kinects on hand for their curriculum as well.
Seems like CS majors would definitely have a good use for kinects (Have a CS degree myself, sadly there wasn't a kinect to play with in computer vision class, but we got by ^ ^ ) but couldn't they get by fine with the existing xbox kinect and the workarounds? If anybody can google, its some CS majors.
And education for computer majors still seems like a TINY niche. Maybe you're buying 15, but even if every college buys 15, is that worth much? Eh.
I think Microsoft has higher hopes for this.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
(I just measured it in my office in plain sight of my colleagues, with a ruler sticking out of my head). My hands would be mere inches away from the Kinect. How's that going to work?
For one thing, I'd have to lean back to bitchslap in Duke Nukem Forever, which frankly is a bit girly.
How about realizing that it's a money grab.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210649/Kinect-s-BOM-roughly--56--teardown-finds-
Are you serious? You really think the entire cost of a device comes down to the sum of its parts? No costs involved in packaging, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, R&D, software development, profit, etc...? The iphone 4S is estimated at having a BOM totaling $188, but anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that there's much more to developing such a thing than simply buying those parts.
It's interesting you mention this. My uni has a class this semester that's main focus is on developing new uses for the kinect.
Fuck Beta
I suppose you also believe you are only worth your weight in carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen right?
Even with their own products. Its embarrassing that they took so long to realize the potential for this, and even then hackers beat them at it by years.
So on the one hand you're saying it's embarrassing they took so long and then later you're saying it's pointless, standard contradictory MS-bashing. Idiot.
Then there's the other 3rd party companies who ALSO beat them to market, and with cheaper products.
Like who? Are you referring to things like eyeToy? Don't let the fact that they are totally different get in the way of your MS-bashing. And again, you claim they've been beaten to market, but then later claim the device is pointless...moron.
So without mainstream games, who is this supposed to appeal to? The very hackers who already got it working, because they wanted it? Whoops.
I see you fail at basic business. They already have a product, all they do is re-brand that and sell it, it doesn't have to appeal to a huge audience, but if someone finds something particularly innovative to do with it then they are ahead of the curve.
They can use existing microphones and webcams, gestures aren't as important since you HAVE A MOUSE that works perfectly well.
More contradictory rubbish, you complain that they don't innovate then you go on to say they shouldn't bother trying anyway because we already have devices like the mouse.
Absolute failure in marketing. I can't believe MS hasn't gone bankrupt yet, nobody likes their products. Zune sucks, Windows Live sucks, Windows Phone sucks...
Oh yeah, thats right. They make their money by suing android manufacturers
They make their money on Windows and Office, and now they are making money on XBox (and its Zune services) too.
and by abusing their OS monopoly
The 90's called, they want their rhetoric back.
and they have completely ignored gaming on Windows, and fail to innovate.
There couldn't be much more of a retard than you with that statement, Windows is the only viable desktop gaming platform. Mac and Linux are still way behind on games.
It'd almost be worth it if it could be programmed to interpret the one-finger salute as the three-finger salute.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Clippy: You appear to be masturbating. Do you need help with that?
I bash MS quite often so in all fairness...
IMHO, this is an awesome piece of kit at an incredibly affordable price. Good going Microsoft, you've done well.
Damn, saying that has made my face twitch.
"The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
When computing my self-worth I also factor in calcium, iron and all the various heavy metals I have accumulated over the years.
You wanna mod me uninformative or flamebait, maybe I'd understand, but troll? I'm being quite genuine with my feelings here. I don't see this selling.
But facts usually aren't decided by "feelings". You made some specific claims about cheaper competitors that need citation. Further up in the thread you can read about what have existed as similar alternatives, to 10x the price and less capabilities than Kinect, if you truly understand all it's capabilities.
You're forgetting about competing products from Primesense ( the guys Microsoft licensed the Kinect technology from ). Primesense has teamed up with Asus for some products as well.
I'm amazed at how many people think Microsoft developed Kinect. To me it looks like the only thing they did was come up with a name for their version. The Kinect looks identical to the reference design from Primesense.
I wonder if their Kinect patent filing was all about.. a weapon to use to bully primesense - that would be classic microsoft.
If any patent pro's are out there I'd be interested to hear an opinion on the kinect patent's novelty... or is it purely designed for courtroom posturing?
oops.. I posted above accidentally.
short version: Don't forget competing products also based on the Primesense technology.
Microsoft DID NOT MAKE THE TECHNOLOGY BEHIND KINECT !
They didn't even buy the company that did!
check out www.Primesense.com or search for primesense on the kinect wikipedia page ( before someone rewrites history that is.. ).
children aren't exactly afraid to use a mouse
The ones with no hands are afraid to use a mouse.
You've failed to see the accessiblity benefits.
I really don't get this. I have the kinect for XBox, it's a bit gimmicky, but interesting and enjoyable in the way Wii was when it first came out. But I don't see the value add to a PC version.
All this hullaballoo about motion controlling TV's, your PC's, etc., makes no sense to me. Noone has yet to explain to me how using a Kinect and waving my hands around to control things on screen is easier then moving my wrist and finger a few mm to control my mouse or my thumb a few mm for a TV remote.
I'm sure the whole thing will be cool in a Minority report way, but I don't see how it can make it easier to interact with my PC and my gut tells me that for folks that get it, it's going to end up sitting on top of monitors collecting dust while people use their mice and keyboards.
Does this mean I'll have to dance in front of my computer to upgrade to ubuntu 12.0?
Have you seen the design of a kinect? An up-down motor that runs once per power cycle and really only needs to be realigned when it is moved to a different position. Sensors 7cm apart that are housed in a 30cm frame of cheap tacky plastic, leading to a much bigger shipping box than necessary.. The kinect should be cheaper and smaller than it is now, what on earth is in all the empty space anyway?
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
They got on top, then illegally exploited that position to try and keep anyone else from competing on a fair playing field.
Too busy to fully search, but what is the difference between Kinect on Windows and on 360. I know it says it has near mode, but is that only supported on Windows Kinects? Do I need to buy ANOTHER kinect (one for my 360, and one for my pc) or can I just use the Kinect I have for my X-Box 360 on my PC?
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
...you'd think they'd want to help with getting some Open Source drivers developed for Kinect.
I personally cannot see a use for Kinect but I recognise the algorithms that make it work are pretty cool and Microsoft is rightfully quite proud of it. Hardware hackers are definitely going to be interested in it but if the majority of those are Open Source freaks, I doubt many of them will end up paying for a Windows 7 license just to use it on a desktop PC.
Common sense would have been for Microsoft to show off something good they've done, help develop Open Source drivers, and benefit from some additional Kinect sales when hardware hackers play with it on their Linux PCs.
Windows 10 is great - I used it to download Linux.
It opens up the horizon to everybody or at least people with imagination or a real-world need. The article in Investor's Business Daily had a photo of a guy steering his lounge chair by waving his hands in front of the unit mounted on the chair's armrest. Wait till Homer Simpson hears about this. "You know you've built a platform that's captured everyone's imagination when you hear back from a slaughterhouse that says they've built an app that measures the livestock's growth with Kinect, and they want to sell it to other slaughterhouses around the world." Craig Eisler, GM of kinect for Windows.
And it all started with this console that they gave their kid for gaming.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
else the screen turning blue will be the last thing you see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qLDzLYPG-w
Kinect has a hard time recognizing flippers.
WHOOOSH!
My point was that Microsoft, once again, has spun things so far that they literally have it backwards and everyone buys it (excuse the pun) without a second thought. Peripherals don't support Operating Systems. Operating Systems support peripherals.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
yeah!!!!!!! sorry MS, he doesnt want to subsidize your console!!11111
lol. fucking retard.
ok so "back then" when windows was, by all accounts, much shittier than it is now, microsoft climbed to the top and established a monopoly. then using that monopoly, they perpetuated the monopoly through monopoly and increased product quality?
yeeeeeeaaaaahhhhh.....
Saw the following from a semi-famous developer in my twitter feed today:
Microsoft Store in Santa Clara apparently not selling Kinect for Windows unless customer can "prove it will be used for commercial purposes"
(later...)
Wow. You actually have to BRING BUSINESS DOCUMENTATION to the MS Santa Clara store to get a Kinect for Windows. Also sign licenses.
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
And this is an early adopter price. It'll be under 200 bucks at retail within a matter of weeks and probably have shed a 100 bucks by Xmas 2012.
It's quite depressing seeing MS - so scared to endorse or appear to endorse Linux somehow - avoiding mentioning Linux compatibility with they hardware.
I assume that Kinect's SDK is just a bunch a Windows libraries + documentation, with no useful low-level information (which would be interesting to have, since it would be from an official source).
Well, I don't buy anything (for personal usage) from Microsoft. For over 20 years, I've never really needed anything _specifically_ from them, being that HW or SW (no sacrifices nor piracy involved) the last one being Microsoft's Amiga Basic in 1991, paid indirectly since it came with the computer.
While I have no real use for Kinect (beyond as a tinkering toy), I would feel more encouraged to buy it if Microsoft wasn't such an industry ass.
Your slaughterhouses breed animals over there? Over here farmers look after the growth of livestock.
What is wrong with you morons. Who cares where it came from. It's the best robot sensor EVER, and I'm using one connected to a linux box today.
While it's really easy to live *without* ms software, I've found they make the best keyboards by far.
That makes sense, but I was asking about the comment trschober made where he says they got the monopoly through antitrust violations associated with already being a monopoly.
And, considering the case in question, he is really saying that bundling IE is what got them their monopoly. Which, doesn't seem historically accurate or physically possible.
1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
And that's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_(gesture)
Be seeing you...