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Firefox's Web Push Notification System Announced
eldavojohn writes "Describing Notifications as 'somewhere between email and IM,' Mozilla has announced this push technology as a way to receive notifications from websites without having to keep them open in your browser — as well as receiving them on your mobile device. A JavaScript API reveals early interface ideas by the team. This core concept is not new — both Google and Apple have their own push notification systems for Android and iOS respectively. However, 'It's important to note that this push notification system is distinct from the existing desktop notification mechanisms that are already defined in pending standards. The desktop notifications that websites like GMail and Seesmic Web display to Chrome users, for example, will only work when the website is left open in a tab. Mozilla's push notification system moves beyond that limitation.' Mozilla is attempting to take push notifications to the entire web for any website to use."
Microsoft did this with WebSlices in Internet Explorer 8.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/cc956158%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
As you can tell from how prominent they are, this idea really took off among web users.
It's like we're fighting with ourselves though. "I really love these web apps, but I really wish they weren't web apps"
but i feel like we're back in the late 90's/early 2000's with all the different web technologies from different companies, almost to the point of having to add the old "best viewed in derp derp browser" messages to websites. i know this sort of thing is necessary to move things along, but i kinda hate this limbo phase where we have all kinds of new/interesting/exciting/annoying technologies, and no standards yet to bring them together. that's my rant, ill be quiet now.
Let's hope they push relevant information and not drugs and booze.
Now if there were only a way to make this syndication Really Simple.
Yay! A new spam vector!
I fear if they use this to push notifications for each new Firefox release then I'll exceed my data cap.
"We live in a global world" - Harvey Pitt, former Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman
It's old. This is new and hip. It's more Web 2.0 (hell it might be Web 3.0) than RSS.
Apart from making browser and email client, Mozilla is contributing a lot to bring more functionality to web. The good thing is that they do it in a very open way. But they lack popular web services to push the features. e.g. Google brought these APIs to Chrome and Gmail implemented them. While how many websites actually honor do not track option is still not known. Mozilla should also try to find collaborations with major web services providers to make the features happen.
How is this different from PointCast?
I never really saw the advantage of push technology over lightweight "pull" technology like RSS feeds. And who really wants desktop notifications when they're not using a program meant to read that kind of info? It's not like memory's so starved we have to close all our apps when they're not in use. We do that only when we don't want them bothering us.
Are they saying they support at least 32 bytes of information per message? 256 bits of randomness for those random messages? Perhaps I am just missing out on some cool-hip-web2.0-developer terminology here?
Palm trees and 8
It's polling, which is extremely inefficient.
Dilbert RSS feed
The identifiers have 256 bits of entropy.
Palm trees and 8
But I guess somebody's paycheck depends on reinventing the wheel?
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3265
No, Mozilla (re)made HTTP Push: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_technology#HTTP_server_push
So who's gonna patent this technology first so they can sue the fuck out of everyone this time ? ps: does it show I got no more faith for this suing business thing anymore ?
I'm a futurist. Where's my Web 7.0?
Mark Anthony Collins
How will this work with dynamic IPs?
What privacy implications are there if a message intended for me got sent to someone else who now has my IP?
There'd need to be some sort of system for people to regularly refresh their IP. Opera Unite sort of done this by having their own service which connected to their servers.
So, basically have the system designed in a way that it automatically refreshes IP to the server for whatever website you are subbed to when the IP is detected as different. (sort of like how the clients work for DynDNS or various other sites)
Essentially it would be instant, always-on E-mail, and your IP would be the session. (well, obviously an account too initially!)
I still don't think it would be used by most people though.
Look at Chrome Notifications. Gmail is the only site I know that uses it. (seriously surprised Facebook doesn't use it, in fact)
WebSlices as mentioned above isn't entirely related. It lets you subscribe to a slice of a webpage. It is basically a web scraper. BUT, some of the ideas there are certainly heading in the right direction.
Hope Microsoft actually offer some feedback on this one and try to come to some sort of standard. This COULD be incredibly useful. But only if it gets standardized and done right. If it ends up being more obtuse than clicking a link, adding a user account, password (or done automatically if logged in), then some more advanced options if people wish to edit them (such as period to update IP, whether instant, every X hours, days, whatever), it is just going to be left unused by a large amount of people again.
The companies that are trying to innovate, the companies that don't want to see *other* companies innovate, or the standardization system that moves at the speed of my grandpa, rocking in his chair while keeping an eye on all these children running around?
a way to receive notifications from websites without having to keep them open in your browser
Why not... oh, I don't know... fix the god damned browser's shitty memory handling so I can leave the fucking web page open for more than an hour!
I still have a copy of Delivering Push somewhere in the Netherlands ...
Perl Programmer for hire
Yet, I'm getting tired of 927 (the comic's number). Constantly appearing on Slashdot articles about new technologies.
Will it work:
If it can't, then we're going to be able to use it how again?
Is there a reason why they don't use an already available and open standard like XMPP (wich BTW could also replace RSS)?
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/technology-overview/pubsub/
People have been trying to get this right since at least 1998. The problem is, there is no right. As soon as you have a push channel, websites begin abusing it, and that channel gets shut down. It just can't be done.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
So just don't use it. It's not like this is a requirement.
It amazes me the number of so-called "technologically-savvy" people who are closet Luddites.
FC Closer
What, are we finally going to use something besides port 80? Haven't they all been blocked by our ISPs already?
A bit of generalizing in the post there. I have a couple of desktop notification apps that don't require websites or my browser to be open.
What it will be used for:
Search Kayak.com for tickets to Hawaii in a month.
Click on a link for the flight you want.
Get a popup about allowing their "rate advisor".
Allow it.
Go back to the Kayak results.
Click another result from a competitor airline and allow their "rate advisor".
Get a notification from the first airline that you can save $$ on that flight if you book now.
Go back to the first airline's website.
Get a notification from the second airline that you can save $$ on that flight if you book now.
Compare the two actual prices and decide which flight you want.
Remove permissions for trip advisors.
Reblock notification permissions, ads, javascript, and third party / promiscuous cookies related to their sites.
This is actually a useful idea--I keep at least 6 "app tabs" open in firefox at all times just to see when I get notifications from Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, Google Calendar, Google Voice, etc. A push notification system could give nice in-browser notifications without keeping entire pages loaded into memory.
I enjoy code like:
{url: url}
yeah, it's almost as amazing as the number of fire-savvy people who are against people sticking their hands into a furnace.
or the privacy-savvy people who try to warn others about the dangers of facebook and other web spyware.
Pull Vs Push services.
So it's Netscape Netcaster all over again. The future is always so original. It's gonna be about as big a hit as it was then.
What, they've come out with a new closet? So all of a sudden we're supposed to junk perfectly-working closets that keep all our clothes organized the way we're used to? No thanks.
Seriously though, who cares? You can spend so much time "being connected" that you lose any real connections - look at all the people who use facebook to replace real-life contacts. The more they do this, the more they miss real-life interactions, so they end up in a vicious feedback loop where they spend even more time online trying to make up for it..
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
The BlueGriffon author wrote a Firefox extension that implemented IE's WebSlices called WebChunks for Firefox 3.5, and as you can tell from how popular it was, he never updated it.
... in '98. RSS and Atom have come out since for similar puproses, but it hasn't been done right. But more importantly, theres a reason that this hasn't found too much of a niche: its a solution looking for a problem. There isn't anything that it does that can't be done with other things, without needing a specific browser.
Mozilla really is leveraging its market share unfairly lately, forcing aggressive upgrade models and features no one wants, while breaking core functionalities. This is just another step down that road, and it's unsurprising that the market share is going to Chrome more these days.
Isn't this functionality, to a large extent, provided with a decent RSS reader?
Hey Firefox.
Push off.
I really don't need anything popping up but my Growl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growl_(software) So push me your notifications, but do it in a standard way. HEX
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
Where by "extremely inefficient" you mean "still requires utterly insignificant bandwidth compared to the video streaming and file sharing that make up the vast majority of internet traffic, but hey, we should totally concentrate on getting 0.0000001% down to 0.00000005% rather than working on anything that will have a noticable effect!"
They should stick to the browser; and use the browser as a desktop;
otherwise they are going our way.
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