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Ask Slashdot: How To Allow Test Takers Internet Access, But Minimize Cheating?

New submitter linjaaho writes "I work as lecturer in a polytechnic. I think traditional exams are not measuring the problem-solving skills of engineering students, because in normal job you can access the internet and literature when solving problems. And it is frustrating to make equation collections and things like that. It would be much easier and more practical to just let the students use the internet to find information for solving problems. The problem: how can I let the students access the internet and at same time make sure that it is hard enough to cheat, e.g. ask for ready solution for a problem from a site like Openstudy, or help via IRC or similar tool from another student taking the exam? Of course, it is impossible to make it impossible to cheat, but how to make cheating as hard as in traditional exams?"

330 comments

  1. Sometime the old ways by h2oliu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember being allowed to bring notes with me to class. Would just making this open book/open notes accomplish the same thing?

    --
    Ok, I give up, why you?
    1. Re:Sometime the old ways by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Some of the toughest exams I've ever taken have been open book. Mostly because they require you to understand not only the theory, but the application of the theory and law to the problem. This usually shows that both the instructor, and the student understands the course material. And that it was being taught, and understood correctly.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Sometime the old ways by John+Bresnahan · · Score: 5, Funny
      When I had "open-book" tests, I would always forget to bring my book

      When I had "take-home" tests, I would always forget where I lived.

    3. Re:Sometime the old ways by RandomAvatar · · Score: 1

      I do not believe it would. Part of education today is learning how to use resources like the internet, and sometimes databases specific to the material you are learning. Granted, this is normally simple for people that are tech-savvy, however, there are people that need to learn how to take proper advantage of resources like the internet, otherwise they will stay close-minded and not use it at all, reducing their efficiency and knowledge.

      At least, that is how I see it.

    4. Re:Sometime the old ways by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some of the toughest exams I've ever taken have been open book.

      Same here. My observation was that if the test was "open-book", the books would not be much help.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    5. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. In most job situation you can look up information so it's quite pointless to test each individual their memory skill instead of their skill of applying the knowledge.

    6. Re:Sometime the old ways by dcollins · · Score: 5, Funny

      I had a student once -- Whenever we had an "in-class" test, his mother would always have a heart attack.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    7. Re:Sometime the old ways by kiehlster · · Score: 1

      I've got this cancer drug, Bexarotene. I hear it has some effect on Alzheimer's disease in mice. Maybe you'd like to try it?

    8. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This usually shows that both the instructor, and the student understands the course material. And that it was being taught, and understood correctly.

      Doubt it. Our current educational system focuses on rote memorization and test scores. I'd say it's completely ineffective.

    9. Re:Sometime the old ways by confused+one · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's my experience. If it was open book, expect the worst. It was assured you wouldn't have time to look up how to solve the problems. The problems were structured such that you really had to know the material inside and out. It also meant you had no excuse if the solution required one of the more arcane differential equation or integrals solutions from the tables in the back of the book.

    10. Re:Sometime the old ways by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 4, Funny

      Then stop having in-class tests! My god, you're killing the woman!

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    11. Re:Sometime the old ways by phoenix_rizzen · · Score: 2

      Our class used to bug teachers for open-book tests, thinking it would make things easier. And for a few classes, it did.

      Then we ran into the teacher whose thought process was "If you want to use the book during the exam, then I'm going to make it so hard that you *NEED* to use the book during the exam". :( And a lot of the questions had answers in the appendices, the footnotes, the sidebars, etc, places you wouldn't normally think to look while flipping through the text.

      Most people didn't finish that exam.

      And we didn't hound our teachers for open-book exams after that.

    12. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a student once -- Whenever we had an "in-class" test, his mother would always have a heart attack.

      Many helicopter mothers might have heart attacks when they find out their precious, but intellectually challenged offspring would be 'outed' by an in-class test where they couldn't help them cheat... Don't discount that angle ;^)

    13. Re:Sometime the old ways by rwv · · Score: 1

      Could a professor put questions on the test that he or she knows aren't easily solved by using the Internet? Though, the effort to find these sorts of questions might be more trouble than it's worth. Also, some subject require memorization. As an engineer, I have little need to know where Darfur is... but a political scientist better not need to Google that information so if a search engine is allowed a much deeper question must be asked.

    14. Re:Sometime the old ways by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. I found a direct correlation between the amount of information at your fingertips, and the difficulty of the exam. We had an advanced calc final that was a take home test. Yes. A take home final. It didn't help. I think I scored like a 60 (which apparently put me near the top of the class). Even the guys that were known cheaters fared poorly. The questions were worded in such interesting fashion that you basically had to schlepp to the prof's office and ask her what the hell she was even talking about. We all ended up having to get extra credit by helping her and her girlfriend move houses.

      In order of descending difficulty: Open book, open note; open book; single note-sheet; no notes; no calculators.

    15. Re:Sometime the old ways by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree entirely. First, you need to distinguish between secondary and higher education; the two are very different here in the US. The submitter said he worked as a lecturer in a polytechnic, so that's university-level, not grade school. Back in the early 90s when I was in college, open-book and open-note tests were totally common; rote memorization was not. Everyone (at least in engineering school) had graphing calculators (mostly the venerable HP48), so trying to prevent students from bringing in stuff on their calculators was an exercise in futility, so in many classes like freshman Chemistry, we were allowed to have one sheet of paper with all the notes we could cram onto it when we took an exam.

      By most accounts, our universities are pretty effective at educating people; it's our grade schools that suck and get all the criticism. The main criticism of colleges is that the tuition is much too high (it wasn't nearly as expensive when I attended; it's skyrocketed in the past couple decades for some reason).

    16. Re:Sometime the old ways by DanTheStone · · Score: 1

      It also meant you had no excuse if the solution required one of the more arcane differential equation or integrals solutions from the tables in the back of the book.

      Ah yes, good old sinh and cosh

    17. Re:Sometime the old ways by Minwee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Could a professor put questions on the test that he or she knows aren't easily solved by using the Internet?

      I don't know. Is there a question which cannot be answered by visiting www.gmail.com and having a helpful friend or highly paid accomplice on the outside write up the solution for you?

      If your answer to that question is 'No', then you're starting to see the problem. If your answer is 'Yes', then I have an amazing investment opportunity for you. It's a combination of a perpetual motion machine, time cube, and weight loss device that is made entirely from recycled ophidian extracts...

    18. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I admire your rationale and willingness to find a way to assess meaningful skills in a realistic environment. Yes, in today's world, facts are at everyone's finger tips. However, problem solving skills can be demonstrated by taking these facts and solving a complex problem. If your evaluation was project based, Problem Based Learning style (PBL), collaborative (more real world) and the answer could not come out of a wolfram alpha, or OpenStudy (I am a cofounder by the way of OpenStudy), you would have evaluated something meaningful and realistic.

      Yes, they can still ask for help on OpenStudy, but in the real world, don't you ask for help when you need it? If you are ever in doubt about whether your student violated a policy, you can check for yourself. Everything on OpenStudy is completely transparent and open to your scrutiny.

    19. Re:Sometime the old ways by impala · · Score: 2

      Force them through a logged proxy, and tell them if they cheat they'll get zero.

    20. Re:Sometime the old ways by The+Dancing+Panda · · Score: 1

      Agreed. There's a reason foreign governments will pay for their kids to go to college in the US.

    21. Re:Sometime the old ways by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      Part of education today is learning how to use resources like the internet, and sometimes databases specific to the material you are learning.

      That's true. Doing research is not an innate thing for most people. Where do you look? What is relevant? When I went to graduate school, one of the first classes we were required to take involved tasks that forced us to go find where in the library certain things were, and where other things were on campus, and how to use what we found there.

      So, to "test" that, you assign papers and outside-of-class projects.

      When you are giving a test, as in "everyone sitting in one room with a sheet of questions", design the questions so that your ability to do research isn't being tested, but your grasp of the concepts that lie behind the material. Things that don't require you to look anything up, but have you explain what you would need to look up and how it applies to the problem. Tests should never be the only thing considered in a grade.

    22. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Obligatorily hilarious analysis:
      http://www.math.toronto.edu/mpugh/DeadGrandmother.pdf

    23. Re:Sometime the old ways by Ferzerp · · Score: 1

      At university, the hardest course I ever took had take home open book, open note, *open internet* tests.

      The course was abstract algebra though, so, the internet wasn't much help (c. 2001).

    24. Re:Sometime the old ways by thesandtiger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Absolutely there's a question that can't be answered that way:

      "Minwee, on your previous exams you struggled to even articulate the most basic concepts involved in XYZ. Yet here on your final exam you managed to put forth an elegant solution. Please, from memory, walk me through your solution and how you came up with it step-by-step."

      The tricky part (and it isn't that tricky) is how to know who's done suspiciously well and who is just a really good student.

      For me, when I teach courses, I handle that by giving 2 grades for each assignment. One is the letter grade, the other is a meta-grade that explains why they got that letter. I also mix up assignment types and methods - some are open book, some are spontaneous and WAY too short (2-3 minutes at most) to get any real kind of response from an IRC enabled accomplice, etc.

      The meta grade thing is simple: I might have 3 students who do an assignment and get a C. One might have gotten a C because they got an answer that was incorrect BUT they derived it through a process that is sensible and correct (usually just some kind of error they didn't catch); One might have gotten a C because they got a correct answer but their process made no sense; One might have gotten a C because they got the right answer but didn't show their work at all. Over time I develop a profile for each student based on those metas and so I can spot outliers not just in the actual letter grade they got but also in the reason for the grade.

      When I have a student who routinely does very well but doesn't show their work, I'll sit with them and ask them to explain their work. If they can't do it adequately I'll remind them that cheating will get them an F for the course and possibly expelled, so I expect that in the future they'll be able to explain how they got those ever-so-correct answers the next time. It's shocking how many "correct but inarticulate" students suddenly become "frequently incorrect but extremely verbose" when they realize I'm on to them.

      The other thing is that by and large, cheaters are not very consistent students when it comes to those meta grades, even if their letter grades might be. When I see a student with a very inconsistent pattern, that's another sign I need to have a talk with them.

      I figure if a student can both figure out and slide past my system they deserve to get away with it.

      Anyway, the thing is that it requires a faculty member who is actually invested in teaching their students rather than just herding them through a course.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    25. Re:Sometime the old ways by musth · · Score: 1

      The "known cheaters"? That's an interesting concept.

    26. Re:Sometime the old ways by c · · Score: 1

      The courses you really have to be wary of are the ones without any exam.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    27. Re:Sometime the old ways by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      Why? If I, as a student, know that those guys are cheaters but the teachers do not, then those guys can be "known cheaters". I know a few people like that. If they do badly in an exam, I assume it was because they couldn't cheat.

      I remember an exam. The teacher allowed the use of books and even went away for something like half an hour. Still, the "known cheaters" did badly, since the questions were not the ones you can just copy from the book. The teacher also said that if you found a question that you could copy the answer from the book, if you copied it verbatim, you would have to explain the answer to the teacher.

    28. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I taught college algebra, several students bemoaned the fact that I would not allow the use of calculators on the exams. They nagged, and they whined. I finally told them that I would allow their use; but that I would also design the test so that numerical answers would have to be reported with 20 digits of precision, etc. They backed down pretty quickly.

    29. Re:Sometime the old ways by cptdondo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I went to school when calculators were first starting to be available. That meant the rich kids could drop $400 for the Bowmar Brain with all the scientific functions and the rest of us had to made do with the TI-11 (or whatever it was...)

      So the engineering school designed all the tests without numerical answers. You had to set up the problem and explain the solution, and devise a test to see if your solution was correct. All without using numbers....

      Those were some of the hardest tests I ever took. 3 hours, 3 problems, and you sweated blood. I remember one of the problems:

      "Calculate the heating of the skin of a rocket as it lifts off through the atmosphere. Assume the engines put out constant thrust. Account for fuel consumption and thinning of the earth's atmosphere."

      I would bet that even today Google would be at a loss to provide an answer.

      That's what I'd do.... Devise a test that required you to think through the answer.

    30. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I must've went to an awful university, then. I'm someone who is horrible at describing things. That doesn't mean that I don't understand them, but it does mean that unless I do it myself, I won't be able to show you much of anything. I demonstrate my skills much better when I do things.

      Traditional multiple choice or essay tests simply aren't for me.

    31. Re:Sometime the old ways by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      That's not necessarily an indication that US colleges are good. It could just mean that they believe that they're better than their colleges (which doesn't necessarily mean they're good).

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    32. Re:Sometime the old ways by PPH · · Score: 1

      This is Slashdot. Why isn't that article paywalled?

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    33. Re:Sometime the old ways by PPH · · Score: 1

      Post a sign to the effect that the medical school will be holding their anatomy lab finals next week and dead relatives will be requisitioned.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    34. Re:Sometime the old ways by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      How large a class size are we talking about for you to be able to track and maintain "meta-grades" for students? This instructor is at a "polytechnic" school (like I was) most likely teaching very large sections (i.e., 100+ students per section, usually two to three sections per instructor, per course) and is most likely using some sort of course management system to boot. Yes, with class sizes of no more than 30 per section and teaching two or three sections you can do things like "meta-grades" for students because you are most likely the only person grading the papers. This instructor probably has one or two grad students that help grade, or-heaven forbid-he/she has to hand grade all the tests, quizzes and assignments alone for 300+ students. No time for meta-grades. If there is a course management system involved, most won't handle meta-grades so the instructor would have to keep track of the meta-grades externally, adding another layer of tasks to grading.

      Yours is a good idea, but doesn't scale well to a polytechnic school where class sizes are three to five times as big as what you may be used to dealing with. Polytechnics also add the layer of needing to do research, scholarly papers, conferences, master's and ph.d student advising, and they may have another one or two classes they may want to or are required to teach. It's A LOT tougher to defeat cheating in 100+ person classes, unless you aim to not regurgitate things verbatim. Giving complex problems where multiple things have to be applied to solve them is probably the best tool for large class sizes. As others have said, the hardest tests are open book because good ones evaluate the application of knowledge, not just the regurgitation of said knowledge. So, to the OP, how do you prevent cheating? Make a better test!

    35. Re:Sometime the old ways by juggler314 · · Score: 1

      I took a high level graph theory class...and the professor told us that we could choose how we wanted the final to be: a)no references at all, b) open book (the book for the course) or c) open anything (bring any references you feel like).

      He then proceeded to explain that if we chose a) the test would be only require knowledge we had learned in class, b) the test would cover material that would not be answerable from the book or c) where he would choose open NP-hard questions and see how well we did reasoning through possible solutions.

      Not surprisingly we chose option a)

    36. Re:Sometime the old ways by jmerlin · · Score: 2

      These are usually the best kinds of tests. Primarily because "closed book" tests tend to be partially or mostly factual regurgitation. For one, that's one of the least effective methods of testing understanding. For two, not everyone memorizes every little tiny fact (and indeed, this is rarely useful). And finally, in the real world, nobody tries solving hard problems without having plentiful references to check their facts and gain insight.

      I don't care if a network engineer knows off the top of his head what the 7th bit in a TCP-IP header represents or if a programmer knows what the valid prefix opcodes for IA-32 are, nor should those bits of trivia ever be useful except in extremely domain-specific situations in which case I expect you to have a manual in your hand for complete faith that you are absolutely certain to fuck things up otherwise.

    37. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Outside of the US, their colleges are met with skepticism at best, mostly as a result of the diploma-mill type colleges that heavily advertise and basically just give you a piece of paper for your money with little education or effort involved. In fairness, there is probably a lot less of this than most people likely perceive, and this happens in plenty of other countries as well, but it's a perception that has a basis in an unfortunate reality. Keep that in mind when you comment on people's perceptions on higher education.

    38. Re:Sometime the old ways by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      For 100 level courses upwards of 200 students per class. It scales just fine; someone is grading their work and it's very little extra effort to add a meta grade while you're already on the work. For some classes I've been encouraged to use scantrons/teleforms but I don't like those since honestly anything that's merely multiple choice is not going to give an accurate measure of a students ability. It's very easy to eyeball work and see if they got the right answer and whether they showed their work/did work that makes sense for the problem.

      I would actually say that having to add in a research component makes my method easier; there is more of a relationship developed wi th the student, more people are involved with the student, and thus when you have outliers you can more easily get information about them and whether their performance is anomalous.

      Honestly, will be blunt and say "large classes" are an excuse for teachers to be lazy. I may not have every students record immediately in mind, but by having grade/meta grade pairs like c/incorrect or c/doesn't show work in my system I can do simple analyses to see which students are performing in unlikely to be legitimate ways. It honestly isn't that hard, though it did take some initial set up.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    39. Re:Sometime the old ways by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      Blah, sorry, writing this from an iPad so numerous errors in the previous post.

      Wrt the specific grading system I have a spreadsheet I use and I'm able to this add fields that are relevant for the meta grades, and also that allow me to run easy analyses on scores. Importing the letter grades to the primary system is easy - the meta info is entirely for me, it doesn't go in the permanent system. This is trivial to do.

      For larger classes I will have 2 TAs, but I have handled courses with 200+ students by myself, and managed - again, their work is already being graded and since I won't just allow scantrons to decide their fate, it isn't much extra work to use my system over what I'm already doing.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    40. Re:Sometime the old ways by ajlisows · · Score: 1

      It seems that there could be technical solutions to the problem. Maybe the students can only connect to an access point that the teacher has complete control of. Monitor the outbound traffic. TELL the students you will be monitoring outbound traffic. Block ports, Block sites. Give it your best effort. If some manage to overcome and find a way to cheat....at least they had to think a solution through and likely learned something through the experience.

    41. Re:Sometime the old ways by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      To this day I maintain I learned and retain more in several of my courses due to having to cram as much information as possible an a single sheet of paper (human written only) in letters and drawings small enough to cram in but still large enough to read.

      I spoke to one of the seniors about it and he agreed; also added that he thought that there are 4 classes of student: those who don't need the "cheat sheet",. those who use it as a memory recall, those who desperately need it and those for whom nothing will make a difference.

      Although, I do remember that I didn't actually use the sheet very much. For a few things.. yes.. but mostly it was all in my head. Probably because I spent two days carefully scribing on on that sheet of paper just before the test :)

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    42. Re:Sometime the old ways by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      Communication is an essential part of "understand" for any practical purpose. Understand a problem, and knowing the solution, but not being able to communicate that solution with your peers makes understanding, and even knowing the solution pointless.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    43. Re:Sometime the old ways by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      During an open-book exam, when taken in class, you normally can not call up your elder brother with a Ph.D. in the subject for help. Even though you might do that occasionally when you're having to solve a problem for your employer, later in life.

    44. Re:Sometime the old ways by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      Maybe the most important part of knowledge is knowing where you can look up stuff.

      And indeed without properly understanding the matter and as such having no idea what exact formula to look for and where to find it and then to apply it you're still at a total loss.

    45. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeahp, me too.... didn't help at all, especially when the professors wrote the book;
      so the students today actually may have a chance, unless Al Gore is their professor, of course.

    46. Re:Sometime the old ways by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Closed book probably was quite valuable in the past. When looking something up meant a physical trip to a library, or even waiting weeks for an interlibrary loan, having facts available for recall was very valuable. Now that you can connect to vast databases and get facts instantly, it isn't. I skim-read a lot of papers because I don't have to actually understand them enough to be able to reproduce them, I just need to know who is doing important work in which bits of the field so that if I have to do anything in that area I can go back and read their work in more detail. Or, as some wag on IRC put it, my brain is L1 cache for the Internet.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    47. Re:Sometime the old ways by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Something Robin Milner said that has stuck with me:

      Credit for an invention does not go to the first person to invent something. It goes to the person who explains it well enough that no one else needs to invent it again afterwards.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    48. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't care how much you are paid, you are under-paid.

      Now, how do we clone you? :-)

    49. Re:Sometime the old ways by subanark · · Score: 1

      I had a class that was taught by an inexperienced teacher. He put the question of "do you want an open or closed book test?" The class pretty much shocked him with almost everyone voting for closed book. I guess graduate level students know better by this point.

    50. Re:Sometime the old ways by curio_city · · Score: 1

      I had a student once -- Whenever we had an "in-class" test, his mother would always have a heart attack.

      Perhaps she was regularly ill, and it was only ever your business when tests came 'round.

    51. Re:Sometime the old ways by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There's a giant difference between the for-profit, privately-owned colleges ("diploma mills") like University of Phoenix, DeVry, etc., and the public state universities like Univ. of Virginia, and countless others. In fact, those diploma mills are largely a rather recent development, coming around in the past decade or two. Most of the state universities have been around for 100-200 years or more.

    52. Re:Sometime the old ways by xero314 · · Score: 1

      Is there a question which cannot be answered by visiting www.gmail.com and having a helpful friend or highly paid accomplice on the outside write up the solution for you?

      No there is not, but why is this a problem? As a professional for many years I have a full network of people in my field. We all keep each other on instance messaging everyday. If one of use has a problem that we either can't solve, or think someone else can solve quicker, we send off a message. So any company that hires me gets not one intelligent mind, but dozens, for the price of one.

      Tests in education should be testing just that, showing the ability to be able to find out the answer to complex problems. This should include questions with no known answer or questions that are known to not be answerable, so that you an see a persons thought process and approach. Anything else is simply a test of the persons memory and recall, which might be useful in a small portion of work where immediate answers to routine questions is important, but I don't know that you need much education to carry out those jobs.

    53. Re:Sometime the old ways by DaCentaur · · Score: 1

      Universities WOULD have a good record educating people because they mostly take well-educated, disciplined, & hardworking students - in other words, students who have already learnt to be successful - at least in certain areas. The hardest work is in Primary education where it is now recognized that much of the foundation for later life is laid. They are bound to attract criticism. Though, I believe, that there are too many factors involved and too many things to do for just one type of institution to shoulder the entire burden. Parenthood, Religion, Government, Commerce & Industry, Citizens Action Groups, Seniors Groups, etc should all pitch in to shoulder the responsibility for the all-round growth of every new born right from the moment of birth till the age of 15 or so. This needs to include giving worthy Primary teachers the same salaries as their colleagues in Universities with the same qualifications. I contend that when a person is shown how and then facilitated to be successful on their own, they would rather not cheat. The requirements are for people who are as skilled as those who are teaching at University. In fact, teachers at University should ONLY be part-timers who love facilitating young adults so much that they will do it for free. These teachers must necessarily possess expertise and experience in either Research or Application. Society must instead devote its funds and concentration on a person's life from birth to age 15 or 18. That's it. After that, the person, now a young adult, hopefully having been made strong, courageous, disciplined and wise, can now fend for themselves - first in the academic and then in the professional world.

    54. Re:Sometime the old ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, sorry. That's simply how I am.

      Communication is an essential part of "understand" for any practical purpose.

      No, no it's not. At least not for me. Just because it's that way for you doesn't mean it's that way for me. I can understand something perfectly but not be able to explain it. In other words, I'd be an awful teacher (for that and other reasons).

      It's difficult for me to even explain simple things.

      I have skills, but I can only demonstrate them by doing. What are the options for someone like me? Toss me into the garbage and disregard any skill that I possess? Communicating isn't everything.

    55. Re:Sometime the old ways by CSMoran · · Score: 1

      Is there a question which cannot be answered by visiting www.gmail.com and having a helpful friend or highly paid accomplice on the outside write up the solution for you?

      Yes. "Is Riemann hypothesis true?" could be a question like that.

      If your answer is 'Yes', then I have an amazing investment opportunity for you. It's a combination of a perpetual motion machine, time cube, and weight loss device that is made entirely from recycled ophidian extracts...

      Sounds interesting. Please elaborate :).

      --
      Every end has half a stick.
    56. Re:Sometime the old ways by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The problem with this is that there are a lot of kids who don't want to learn, and their parents don't give a shit whether they do or not. There's only so much teachers can do about this problem, and worse, these kids screw up the learning experience for the other kids who do want to learn. They need to break up the kids into different schools, like they do in Germany, and separate them from each other based on intellect and ability; "mainstreaming" as we do in the US has been a complete disaster and failure. Then maybe your idea of having highly-trained well-paid teachers will make sense, at least for ones who teach kids in the smart-kid school; the ones in the dumb-kid school can be lower paid and poorly trained since they're really nothing more than babysitters.

    57. Re:Sometime the old ways by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      "Good" is a relative term, not absolute. If everyone agrees that one country's schools are better than the rest, then, by definition, those schools are "good" (or even more superlative terms would be appropriate, like "outstanding"). It doesn't matter if they're not up to some par that you yourself has, if everyone else thinks they're the best, and no schools meeting your personal definition of "good" even exist.

      Now, if you're saying they're just better than the schools in a minority of countries who send their students to the US, then why aren't they sending their students to schools in other countries, if they've gone to the pretty big step of sending their students out-of-country for a decent education? Obviously, they think the US schools are the best by some measure (could be quality only, could be cost/benefit).

    58. Re:Sometime the old ways by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Good" is a relative term, not absolute.

      You don't need to tell me that. But I didn't really imply that it was. I simply said that it doesn't necessarily mean that they're "good." They just could be considered "better" by some people.

      Now, if you're saying they're just better than the schools in a minority of countries who send their students to the US

      I'm saying that they might think that they're the "best" ones... that they know of. They might even be the "best," but that doesn't necessarily mean they're objectively good.

      In other words, I was simply saying that people coming to the US for education doesn't necessarily mean that US education is objectively good.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    59. Re:Sometime the old ways by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      In other words, I was simply saying that people coming to the US for education doesn't necessarily mean that US education is objectively good.

      Right, I covered that in my second part; if a foreign government (not just some ignorant parents) is sending kids on its own dime to the US for education, it stands to reason that it's compared the schools in other countries and found them lacking somehow. Either that, or those other countries won't accept foreign students (but then again, being closed to outsiders usually isn't an indicator of a good school).

    60. Re:Sometime the old ways by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      In your second part you asked why they would send them here rather than elsewhere. I said that it may be because they see our schools as the "best" out of the bunch. Again, I'm saying it doesn't necessarily mean they're objectively good (or even necessarily "good" in the subjective sense). Why would it?

      it stands to reason that it's compared the schools in other countries and found them lacking somehow.

      Right. Other schools lacking something does not by itself indicate that ours is "good."

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    61. Re:Sometime the old ways by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Anyway, the thing is that it requires a faculty member who is actually invested in teaching their students rather than just herding them through a course.

      Or perhaps a faculty member who doesn't long for the extra respect and pay that working at a coffee shop would offer compared to teaching at a University.

      It would be nice to live in a world where teachers did have the time and resources to actually teach their students but the real world seldom works that way.

    62. Re:Sometime the old ways by dcollins · · Score: 1

      That is incredibly awesome. Thanks for that!

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    63. Re:Sometime the old ways by Bengie · · Score: 1

      "When I taught college algebra, several students bemoaned the fact that I would not allow the use of calculators on the exams."

      Depends if you're trying to test how well a student can do math in their head or how well they can "apply" math.

      I can't do math in my head, I reverse numbers all the time. My math teachers thought I was a dunce. Once I hit algebra and the problems assumed you had a calculator, so they had complicated problems, I was solving them faster than the teacher.

      I can problem solve and follow logic extremely well, but I can't do math in my head. I can design a scalable multi-threaded+async system with little to no issue, easy stuff. Toss some math at me and no calculator, and you'll think I have brain damage.

    64. Re:Sometime the old ways by Bengie · · Score: 1

      "tell them if they cheat they'll get zero."

      There's already rules against cheating in college. Great way to get expelled.

  2. Whitelist it. by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They don't need the whole internet; only a handful of sites. Set up a proxy that permits only GET requests to a few domains like Wikipedia, disable Javascript for good measure, and you're done.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    1. Re:Whitelist it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya because you can't have a wifi hotspot running on your cell phone. And you can't create an ad-hoc wifi network to collude during the exam.

    2. Re:Whitelist it. by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think that falls under the "no harder than usual" clause. Personally, when I get my PhD I'm going to demand that all of my students write their exams in panspectral Faraday cages.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    3. Re:Whitelist it. by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Funny

      Panspectral? Not merely multispectral?

      Will the students be issued flashlights, or will the tests be administered in braile?

    4. Re:Whitelist it. by Korin43 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I was going to write something about how you'd end up blacklisting sites that have good answers just because they have the ability to post questions (like Stack Overflow). Then I realized that using a site like that would be considered cheating in just about any class I've ever taken, even if they did let you look up reference material.

      Apparently, my entire job involves "cheating" non-stop.

    5. Re:Whitelist it. by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      Panspectral? Not merely multispectral?

      Will the students be issued flashlights, or will the tests be administered in braile?

      NO loose energy particles
                AT ALL!

    6. Re:Whitelist it. by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      And what about gamma rays? That'll need a whole lot of lead.

    7. Re:Whitelist it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just how much information will they really need? If the material for the exam is known, the students should be able to print out the relevant information or even just write it down on a sheet of paper. Anything more than that is just going to eat up too much time. If you want to give them the whole Internet, make it a take-home exam.

    8. Re:Whitelist it. by Anrego · · Score: 1

      Sounds overcomplicated and probably more work than preparing an equation sheet.

      Personally I think the best answer is monitoring. Record the screen throughout the test.. review it when you review the completed test. Shouldn't be too hard to see cheating just by skimming through. Even if you just randomly select a few and thoughoutly go through them I think it would work..

    9. Re:Whitelist it. by softwareGuy1024 · · Score: 1

      Use a faraday cage to block cell signals, and jam wifi to prevent the colluding. Allow each student an ethernet connection that is on its on VLAN. As a previous poster suggested, you have a whitelist of sites for outbound traffic, that don't lend themselves to social networking. That should cover it, but I hope you get paid well to go through so much trouble.

    10. Re:Whitelist it. by camperdave · · Score: 1

      They're lucky. When I was in school, the exams were written in Faraday cages, and the Faraday cages were inside an vacuum chamber, and the vacuum chamber was immersed in liquid hydrogen, and the whole thing was deep inside an old coal mine, with a crotchety old man guarding the entrance.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    11. Re:Whitelist it. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Apparently, my entire job involves "cheating" non-stop.

      The thing about a job though is that you're typically cheating on the details but you roughly know what you're doing. In the engineering world it's important to know things by first principles because it gives you the ability to think about the solution.

      Or the computer analogy, we want you to be able to look up what the syntax of a DO WHILE loop is, and not lookup when to use it.

    12. Re:Whitelist it. by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a Schroedinger exam to me.

    13. Re:Whitelist it. by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

      To use Stack Overflow effectively, you need enough knowledge to describe the problem, and identify the parts that you can't solve. When people just copy and paste their homework, or ask questions without putting any effort into solving it themselves, their posts usually get deleted.

      Time is another factor. For easy questions, you can get an answer in minutes, especially if it's a popular topic. For something more esoteric or complicated, you might have to wait a while, and maybe come back to post additional information. On a one-hour exam, it just wouldn't work. So for advanced courses, SO might be entirely appropriate. It wouldn't be useful for getting the whole answer in a pre-packaged format, but if you already understood 80% of the material, it could get you the rest of the way there.

    14. Re:Whitelist it. by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Ya because you can't have a wifi hotspot running on your cell phone. And you can't create an ad-hoc wifi network to collude during the exam.

      It's not that hard to see someone using their phone during a test. If the prof provides a computer for internet access and walks around and sees someone typing on their phone, he can confiscate the phone (or fail the test taker for violating the "no phones" rule). It's no different than a teacher patrolling for calculators during a "no-calculators" test.

    15. Re:Whitelist it. by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      I haven't decided yet—so far I'm thinking it will be all verbal. Students will be graded on how long they hesitate between words.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    16. Re:Whitelist it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're lucky. When I was in school, the exams were written in Faraday cages, and the Faraday cages were inside an vacuum chamber, and the vacuum chamber was immersed in liquid hydrogen, and the whole thing was deep inside an old coal mine, with a crotchety old man guarding the entrance.

      You had it easy. Our exams were in FRENCH!

    17. Re:Whitelist it. by profplump · · Score: 1

      Did you intentionally reply to something other than what you quoted? What evidence of ad-hoc WiFi would you find on visual inspection? What evidence of Bluetooth tethering or a WiFi hotspot would you find on visual inspection?

    18. Re:Whitelist it. by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      More importantly, monitoring the answer to you question on a general website is like going to the casino. Much time spent that should instead be spent trying to solve the problem itself, and no garanteed result.
      If the problem is well done, the real danger is the accomplice case, where brain resource is multiplied and the problem is solved by multiple brains in parallel.

      The only solution I see would be to make hard to post the problem to someone else. Maybe with a very long text on paper (that would take to reproduce with the keyboard, assuming no access to digital photo) or with critical data presented as graphics. Or a lot of small questions where finding each answer takes less time than posting the question.

    19. Re:Whitelist it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they will be put in a room within a large cube and then they must answer questions correctly to move from one room to another lest they risk to move into a room which is booby trapped and they die. Good news, they geeks may get laid :O

    20. Re:Whitelist it. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You mean you either aced it or failed miserably but you don't know which till you get the paper back?

      Hang on, aren't they all like that?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    21. Re:Whitelist it. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      What evidence of ad-hoc WiFi would you find on visual inspection? What evidence of Bluetooth tethering or a WiFi hotspot would you find on visual inspection?

      Until they come up with a direct wireless brain link, I suspect the proctor might be able to see the student typing or looking at the screen. Which has nothing to do with wi-fi directly, except that it would be pretty useless for cheating purposes without some form of wetware interface.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    22. Re:Whitelist it. by Jesse_vd · · Score: 1

      What about schools having a testing room similar to what you proposed, though? Or upgrading one or two computer labs for it?

    23. Re:Whitelist it. by Jesse_vd · · Score: 1

      They meant you'd leave the phone in your pocket, or in a bag in the room or something, with internet sharing active. You wouldn't need to touch the phone at all.

    24. Re:Whitelist it. by hawguy · · Score: 1

      They meant you'd leave the phone in your pocket, or in a bag in the room or something, with internet sharing active. You wouldn't need to touch the phone at all.

      Well, you're right, you wouldn't need to touch your phone to act as a Wifi hotspot, but how would you use this clever Wifi network without using your phone? The premise here was that the computer they gave you would be locked to a small subset of whitelisted websites. The Wifi on your phone doesn't help you get around URL blocking on their computer.

  3. Monitor the computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    If in a lab situation, use software that records sites visited, or is capable of viewing the student's screens. Make it known that this software is being used.

    1. Re:Monitor the computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This was my thought, but further to that, actually record the entire exam of all the students. Then, if there is any question about cheating you can actually go back and verify after the fact.

    2. Re:Monitor the computers by project5117 · · Score: 2
      Either way, you could force the students to install VNC in their machines, then get a package like VNCplay to record all the test taking sessions. http://suif.stanford.edu/vncplay/freenix05-html/ Advise the students that all the screen sessions are being recorded, and enjoy watching them cheat with their smartphones instead.

      Or you could have the students work on their computers to solve the test, and walk around the room. Anyone you dislike is excused and gets to (re)take the same test on the next class period (instead of having the day off), only with no electronics allowed. Since they saw it already, they should be responsible for memorizing all of the necessary equations. In the "same" test, you change a few numbers so any memorized answers will be wrong. No partial credit.

    3. Re:Monitor the computers by project5117 · · Score: 1

      (I realize vncplay doesn't record the entire screencast; recommendations on open source vnc session software that does it better would be appreciated if obvious.)

    4. Re:Monitor the computers by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      This was my thought, but further to that, actually record the entire exam of all the students. Then, if there is any question about cheating you can actually go back and verify after the fact.

      Or, as the proctor, spend your time trolling the "do my homework for me" sites looking for test questions, and supplying hilariously wrong answers. Then, see how many make it through to the end, and be sure to issue especially humiliating referrals to the dean in their expulsion packet.

      But seriously, the problem of students finding the answers "too easily" by asking or some similar means is only the first layer. After that, you have to prevent them from collaborating with *each other* (something that you could easily do covertly on Wikipedia) which is probably a good bit harder to stop, unless you employ a very complicated web proxy.

    5. Re:Monitor the computers by Anrego · · Score: 1

      Or, as the proctor, spend your time trolling the "do my homework for me" sites looking for test questions, and supplying hilariously wrong answers.

      That might hurt legitimate users of the site (there are probably a few!).

      I think the first idea was right. Record the entire session.. and review when marking the test. Maybe skim most, and go through a randomly (or not) selected set with a fine tooth comb.

  4. Watch them closely by Gr33nJ3ll0 · · Score: 3

    Make sure the questions are unique, change them between each exam, and carefully watch from the back of the room. You could also ask for a log of all the traffic through the WiFi point, and search for know chat domains.

    1. Re:Watch them closely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Make sure the questions are unique

      Make sure each person's questions are unique so even if there is communication between students about questions, they will only be able to discuss general methods of answering rather than specific answers.

    2. Re:Watch them closely by mhajicek · · Score: 2

      So instead of writing a few tests per course per year, he has to write hundreds?

    3. Re:Watch them closely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this solution is close to optimal.

      Have the exam in the computer lab and exercise the portion of the access policy that allows keystroke/internet activity monitoring.

      Make it clear that the access logs will be checked for what you define as cheating (and have a published policy of what that is).

    4. Re:Watch them closely by RobertLTux · · Score: 3, Informative

      easy way to do this is have a question POOL where the test draws X questions and there are 7X questions total (adjust to your liking) if your pool is large enough then even if they ask the folks around them they won't be able to get enough info to pass.

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    5. Re:Watch them closely by Anon-Admin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or the professor could collect hundreds of questions and let the system randomly select so no two students have the same questions. Questions could be cumulative meaning that next semesters questions could be any of the 300 from last semester or one of the 100 from this one. Eventually there would be thousands of questions. Making it harder to cheat each semester.

    6. Re:Watch them closely by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      That's assuming all of the questions are equally difficult and the material was equally/fairly covered in the class for all of them, etc. It's pretty unlikely that it would end up being fair. (SAT questions, for example, go through years of testing and review by millions of students to make sure they are "standardized" in that way...)

    7. Re:Watch them closely by Screen404-O · · Score: 1

      In Russia they had (my be still do, i have been there in a long time) a similar system. Prior to the exam you would be given a number of questions (anywhere between 25 to 50) Each question would cover a portion of the semester and would take about an hour to answer. On the day of the exam you would you would come in and pull a ticket with the number of the question that you need to answer. If remember correctly the exam questions were a little bit different then the one you took home, but require the same technic to solve it. At the end of the day you had to learn entire semester to prep for exam, you got a chance to test your knowledge the practice at home and if you understood the subject subject you would be able to answer the question that is similar.

    8. Re:Watch them closely by Lando · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In my tests, I typically draw up questions based on information that we have covered in class using hypothetical situations. For many subjects, such as mathematics this doesn't work too well since they can just look up a formula generator and pull the information from there. Therefore questions basically need to be new for each test and cover application of theory rather than basic formula. Another thing that helps is making sure that there are enough questions that if they have to look up information for each question they will not be able to finish the test before time runs out. Preferable to plain answers of course are essay questions, but those will add to the time that it takes to grade the papers. I generally run my finals as take home tests, but they are considerably harder to answer than the typical tests. Being that the courses I teach are college level I find this works well, but requires one to two hours to grade each test which means that I have an upper limit of around 60 tests I can grade between turn in deadline and when scores have to be entered into the system. Since I make each test up per class every semester I can gauge the complexity of the tests depending on class size and competence of TA's.

      If you do limit the test to in class tests remember, unless the classroom supplies computer systems to access the web, the students with laptops have an unfair advantage over those that do not or have slow computers.

      --
      /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
    9. Re:Watch them closely by Lando · · Score: 1

      Not responding directly to you comment Dahamma just want to point out problems with completely different questions for each student.

      If you give every student different problems this runs into a couple of problems.

      First, you cannot compare students answers to each other in order to provide proper ranking, ie if one student gets mainly hard questions while another gets mainly easy answers, do you give the easy answer question student an A while the harder test student gets a B?

      Furthermore, if there is a pool of questions, doesn't matter how big they are eventually all those questions will be entered on the web and answers listed so that they become easy to find with a google search.

      One of the ways that individualized questions do become viable is if you base it off a student's work. In my computer science classes, I will typically take one of the homework assignments that the student turned in, print and attach it to the test and then write up a series of questions from that code. Since I spend a bit more time grading homework than most instructors, I find it fairly easy to measure a student's competence with programming and finding anomalies in their coding style that typically indicated cheating/plagiarism where they just copied code off the net and claimed it as their own. When the copying is not blatant this helps to find those that don't really understand what they copied. I find cheating in the lower level computer science courses to be around 30% of the typical class until I point out the cheating and around 15% at upper level classes. The main trick seems to be catching them at the lower level and teaching them that they must cite work that they copy and understand it. I have no problem with them copying code from the web as long as it is properly cited, whereas in the final I get to find out if they actually understand the code they were working with. Since I'm not focused on memorization but skill in producing code, this tends to work out well for me.

      --
      /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
    10. Re:Watch them closely by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      I think this solution is close to optimal.

      Well, in theory.
      You are of course avoiding to even suggest a practical implementation with the technical details such as software list and network architecture. We are on Slashdot. That's what we expect from a useful answer.

  5. This is a tough one.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would say to avoid short answer questions like multiple choice or one word answers.
    Essays are probably harder to cheat on without getting caught.

    1. Re:This is a tough one.. by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      Essays are probably harder to cheat on without getting caught.

      Essays are easy if you have an accomplice outside the classroom that does completely your job. For example a student of a previous year.

      I would say to avoid short answer questions like multiple choice or one word answers.

      Short answers can be ok if it is take longer to copy the question to an accomplice outside the classroom than to solve it yourself. Keeping the problem on paper can help for that.

  6. Don't make it impossible to cheat. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because there is no way to do it. However, you can set up a monitoring program to see who goes where.
    If Jimmy goes to "FreeEssays.com", you know you should approach him about it.

  7. What are you testing by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In "real life" students will have access to all those things. Perhaps it isn't cheating but rather utilizing tools that they would have access to in "real life".

    Assume they'll use every tool at their disposal- and write the tests in such a way that they can't copy the question into a search bar and google the answer.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:What are you testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, agreed.

    2. Re:What are you testing by MacTO · · Score: 2

      I think the point is to give access to the tools that they could use in real life while ensuring that they can still work independently. After all, it would be far too easy for them to look up prior solutions (most courses use similar sets of questions on examinations because the students don't have enough experience to solve novel problems). Even if you could come up with unique questions, you still have a situation where they could hire someone else to answer the questions for you.

      My suggestions: only let http through and use a white-list for acceptable websites. Choose those websites carefully so that they cannot be used to communicate with other students or outsiders. It is only a taste of real life, but it should be enough to prepare them.

    3. Re:What are you testing by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps the professor's goal is to avoid creating—please excuse the harsh wording—parasites? I've heard a lot of horror stories about students who were able to ride on the success of others. At a certain point, you might as well expect everyone to just use the Internet and their social networks to answer everything for them, and never bother instructing them in the first place.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    4. Re:What are you testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This leaves the door wide open for real cheating-- say I'm taking a 200-level programming course and my frat brother grad student is at home answering everything for me. No way you can write a test that won't give me an unfair benefit over someone using the internet as a reference tool.

    5. Re:What are you testing by Githaron · · Score: 1

      Some people do that in the real world too.

    6. Re:What are you testing by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Not just that, but to prevent cut+paste answers.

      You have a hard question, instead of finding the necessary pieces to make an answer, you go to answers.com, ask, wait for someone else to provide you with a ready-made answer and paste it in as your own.

      Its a bit like using just Wikipedia for research.

      The solution is really just to google for the answers that are given. If you find an exact match, strike the answer as plagiarist. If you find a similar but nowhere like copied answer, give the student points for actually using the internet for research.

      Oh, or go onto wikipedia first and change the relevant page so its incorrect, then wait for the same wrong answer to be submitted repeatedly :)

    7. Re:What are you testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hello everyone, I have a doubt. What is best way for implement "double-linked list" in C++. Please to give answer very quickly.

    8. Re:What are you testing by StikyPad · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've heard a lot of horror stories about students who were able to ride on the success of others.

      Ah yes, the parasite. In high school I had a classmate in my CS class who couldn't program a VCR. I, being naive, socially awkward, and wanting to have friends, allowed him to look over my shoulder every week to get the correct answers. He went on to graduate with honors, was selected as the valedictorian, got a full ride to an ivy league university where he undoubtedly continued his shenanigans, and now he's a vice president at Visa Inc. So let that be a lesson to all you would-be cheaters, I guess.

    9. Re:What are you testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is the tests themselves. What exactly are you testing? Well, you're testing the student's memory and ability to access it. Nothing more.

      IF you want to test something else, then by all means, give them access to the tools, and make them prove they understand the theory. Sure, there are a lot of things that are worth memorizing, their importance varying from one field to another, but most of the time, it's just an waste of effort.

      Are the goals of this institution to give lots of papers that say they're specialized in a field? Or it's goal is quality over quantity? Because, honestly, if it's the first one, then it doesn't really matter if a few get through the cracks. The end result will be the same.

      If you're aiming for quality, then, you probably wouldn't even asking this question in the first place.

    10. Re:What are you testing by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      Wikipedia provides database dumps. Just use a transparent proxy to serve from your own private wikipedia - instead of irritating everyone else who might be looking at that information legitimately!

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    11. Re:What are you testing by Spottywot · · Score: 1

      100% right. If the value of the exam is the ability to solve a real world problem then give them real world conditions. If the answer is copy and pastable then the question isn't good enough.

      --
      In a cybernetic fit of rage she pissed off to another age...
    12. Re:What are you testing by slick_rick · · Score: 2

      Cool, I do not need to remember what 2+2 is anymore, now I can just Google it!

      --
      apt-get install redhat please god - Me (take it easy, I love Debian)
    13. Re:What are you testing by firewrought · · Score: 1

      In "real life" students will have access to all those things. Perhaps it isn't cheating but rather utilizing tools that they would have access to in "real life". Assume they'll use every tool at their disposal- and write the tests in such a way that they can't copy the question into a search bar and google the answer.

      What's funny is that you appeal to "real life" but don't seem to realize that designing a test is itself a thorny real life problem that must satisfy multiple constraints--such as cheatability, fairness, realism, and the costs to prepare, administer, score, and adjudicate the test--all while meeting the goal of accurately evaluating the student's understanding of some material.

      Evaluation under real world conditions ("realism") is not always feasible, and it's not always a priority. For instance, the Goog will do elementary arithmetic for you, but everybody should really learn to do this in their head. There are some levels of effectiveness you just can't reach unless you have internalized the prerequisite knowledge, and it's not always feasible to test for this internalization with approaches that are cheater-immune to open book / open internet test-taking.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    14. Re:What are you testing by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the point is to give access to the tools that they could use in real life while ensuring that they can still work independently.

      Well, in real life, people collaborate on work. So, if you are demanding they do all the work without collaborating, you are already putting artificial limits on the process.

      If you are going to put one artificial limit on them, why not two? They don't get to look things up. But that's not fair, is it?

      So don't ask questions where they have to look things up. If you have to look up the concepts behind the work you are doing, then you haven't really learned anything, now have you? I'll point out that there is a difference between forgetting the name for some concept (e.g., "Boyle's Law" or "Charles' Law") and what that concept is ("pressure vs. volume of a gas" etc.) If you want to teach the concepts, you'll accept a demonstration of the concept without demanding it be named properly.

      Even if you could come up with unique questions, you still have a situation where they could hire someone else to answer the questions for you.

      That exists in real life, too. They're called consultants. If you are going to test in "real life" mode, do it. You have to allow consultants.

      My suggestions: only let http through and use a white-list for acceptable websites.

      You don't get to install anything on my phone, tablet, or latptop. Ain't gonna happen. And if you do, I'll simply use root to get around it. Real life sucks, huh?

      It is only a taste of real life, but it should be enough to prepare them.

      Real life rarely sets 100 people down in a room and hands them a list of questions to answer. Tests aren't supposed to simulate real life. Write the test to test what you need to test, not test whether they could figure out a way around an artificial limit that isn't going to be there in real life.

    15. Re:What are you testing by leromarinvit · · Score: 2

      That exists in real life, too. They're called consultants. If you are going to test in "real life" mode, do it. You have to allow consultants.

      Consultants are what, $150 an hour?

      Rich student: Just $150 to pass this test without studying? Sure!
      Poor student: $150? That's half of what I have to live on this month! No way!

      --
      Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
    16. Re:What are you testing by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yup - pretty-much the whole reason management consultants exist is that there are incompetent people running companies that for whatever reason can convince people to give them the job. They then spend their companies money to hire somebody else to do their job for them. If the shareholders had any brains or power they'd just hire the consultants instead.

    17. Re:What are you testing by DaCentaur · · Score: 1

      Well done. You got the lingo quite right. :)

  8. This is not a class in Advanced Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The ability to effectively use resources, literature, and yes, web searches, is based on having an innate, intuitive sense of the field. Anyone can search. A person who has a base knowledge in his or her head can search better. If you want to replicate the job experience, do an internship. If you want to LEARN, keep the Internet out of the testing.

    1. Re:This is not a class in Advanced Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is is also not a class in "who can memorize the most arcane facts".

    2. Re:This is not a class in Advanced Google by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      I would argue that courses already have a component to them that is geared toward building research skills: essays. If a professor indeed wants to encorporate an "Advanced Google" portion to the course, simply weight the papers more, or do away with the exams entirely in favour of assignments.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    3. Re:This is not a class in Advanced Google by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Then, quite simply, the professor better not write the exam that way! It's usually possible to avoid overwhelming students with minutiae when putting together an exam, even if it does take a little bit of extra effort. I've heard a few PhD candidates complaining about the challenges of doing so, but nevertheless the students will come away feeling they've been graded more fairly.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  9. You don't know what teaching is. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Teaching means showing the way to solve problems. Nobody cares about correct solutions to school problems. It's all about the process of solving the problem, a scheme of thinking.

    1. Re:You don't know what teaching is. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      It depends on the class. A history class isn't about learning how to solve problems, so much as it is about having a sophisticated model of what happened before the present day, different models of contingency in human events, and - yes - learning names and dates.

    2. Re:You don't know what teaching is. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are an ass

    3. Re:You don't know what teaching is. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...polytecnic... history class?

  10. just your basic setup... by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Informative

    Block all traffic except port 80 http. (They don't need https, do they? They aren't checking bills online or using email, or some other security oriented task...)

    Block all udp connections.

    Dns filter a blacklist of known cheating sites.

    Block bullshit sites like facebook, myspace and pals too. That's just good sense.

    1. Re:just your basic setup... by jcreus · · Score: 2

      Well, there's a thing called proxy... And there are plenty of them.

    2. Re:just your basic setup... by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Not a whole lot you can do about proxies without resorting to breaking the internet in seriously fundamental ways. Whole oppressive regimes have millions of dollars invested in trying to lock things down like that, and it still doesn't work.

      Eventually you just have to be practical. There is only so much that can be locked down, and the savvy will know how the locks work. Rather than getting stingy about it, accept that it will happen, and impose a "proxy use gets your test torn up" rule, and log IPs.

      A quick script to determine if the IPs accessed are proxies after the test day will quickly highlight your cheaters. (A little automated test of proxy functionality is all you need. A cli script that tells wget to use the ip as a proxy, and off you go.)

    3. Re:just your basic setup... by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      Many bug systems, often the best place to find answers to tricky problems, are HTTPS only.

      It's not particularly tough to set up a logging MITM proxy that captures HTTPS as well though. Log every byte of traffic, do some basic searches on the whole data set to find traffic that indicates possible cheating to inspect further and combine that with your own hunches about possible cheating, then investigate the "interesting" traffic.

      Merely informing the students that their every move is logged will discourage a lot of cheating right off the bat.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    4. Re:just your basic setup... by oneiros27 · · Score: 1

      And even that won't work ... unless you're going to monitor all of their traffic and make sure they aren't using some sort of handshaking to enable access to the proxy, or are doing something fancy with websockets

      --
      Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
    5. Re:just your basic setup... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whitelist would be better than blacklisting, otherwise you can just setup a non-blacklisted site that serves a remote desktop over js.

    6. Re:just your basic setup... by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Dns filter a blacklist of known cheating sites.

      Block bullshit sites like facebook, myspace and pals too. That's just good sense.

      A white list would be much better than a black list. If he black lists web sites, students are bound to find sites/domains/ip addresses that are not included in his list.

    7. Re:just your basic setup... by DaCentaur · · Score: 1

      Whitelisting is indeed much nicer and more straightforward. Allow access only to certain sites. Since Wikipedia is generally not acceptable (as of now), access should instead be given to reputed sites such as that of WileyInterscience, Nature, Popular Science, HowStuffWorks, etc.

    8. Re:just your basic setup... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Ultimately, all you really have to do is convince them that if they try something, they'll be caught. This should be a controlled environment, you shouldn't let them bring in their own devices but instead they have to use a school computer. Make it clear what isn't allowed, tell them all all traffic is logged, all activity on the computer is logged, and that you can see what they are doing on at any time, and if they break the rules they fail the test. That should stop it.

  11. Suck It Up by dcollins · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "And it is frustrating to make equation collections and things like that."

    (A) Suck it up and do the work once.
    (B) Use a textbook that comes with a premade formula card for use on tests.
    (C) Find a premade formula card online and distribute that for tests.

    Personally, I use option (B) for my math classes. Trying to make the internet non-communicable is like making water not wet.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    1. Re:Suck It Up by goodmanj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Trying to make the internet non-communicable is like making water not wet."

      Exactly what I came here to say. Use a closed-off intranet, physical media (formula sheets, textbooks, etc), or allow students to prepare their own short "cheat sheet" before class. Don't even bother trying to lock down or whitelist the public Internet: the public Internet is the opposite of what you want to do.

    2. Re:Suck It Up by zenjah · · Score: 1

      "Trying to make the internet non-communicable is like making water not wet." I wonder what the freezing point of the internet is.

    3. Re:Suck It Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Trying to make the internet non-communicable is like making water not wet." I wonder what the freezing point of the internet is.

      That's an easy one.

    4. Re:Suck It Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ACTA

    5. Re:Suck It Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (D) Students make their own.

      This means students can also write down examples. But also means that its their responsibility to make sure all equations are there.

      When I took electromagnetism the professor provided the equations, but managed to forget to provide the 4 main equations on the quizzes. Luckily I realised this the day before the final and was able to memorize them. If you're going to make the students "rely" on you for the equations, make sure that you provide all of them. Especially the important ones.

    6. Re:Suck It Up by mttlg · · Score: 2

      Just about all of my engineering exams used option (D): let the students make their own. Teach them the material, tell them that they can bring a sheet of notes (or more), and let them figure out how to go from point a to point b. If they can't handle that, then what are their chances of figuring it out during the limited time of an exam? They have people, books, and the internet available to them well in advance of the need date, just like they would in a real job. At some point, they will be stuck in a room for a short period of time with no outside help available and people asking them questions that they had better know how to answer - just like a real job. You will not always have unlimited time and resources at your disposal; the students might as well learn this while they are still taking classes.

    7. Re:Suck It Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ACTAlute Zero?

    8. Re:Suck It Up by mekkab · · Score: 1

      I used option (C) in my "Engineering Electromagnetics" class. I picked up a used book where the equations were neatly written in the inside covers. Didn't do a thing for you if you hadn't put in the work doing all the assignments, but it was a total life saver.

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    9. Re:Suck It Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading the original question, I was left with a distinct sense that the poster was whining about having to do their job. 'Wah, it's hard to create an exam and provide the needed tools. Can't I just let the internet do my job? Can you guys help me figure out a way for me to cheat so that I don't have to do my job?'

      Lazy teachers, increasingly lazy students, lower and lower bars. It all seems like a sad decline to me. When I think about guys with pencil, paper and a slide rule putting men on the moon, for the first time, and bringing them back safely, I am most impressed. Then I think about the "engineers" that this schmuck is producing and the likelihood of them accomplishing such a feat, even with Google and all of the resources of the internet at hand, I really don't think that they could do it.

      I really think that the quality of education is declining and dragging everything else down with it.

    10. Re:Suck It Up by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > Trying to make the internet non-communicable is like making water not wet.

      That's easy: run it through one of those mister/atomizer thingies that people get to make the atmosphere in their homes less dry in the winter, then while it's still suspended in the air lower its temperature to about forty below. You get a dry powder, which will precipitate out of the air and collect on surfaces.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  12. Use Random Variables and have a time limit. by roeguard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was in grad school, in many classes we were allowed to use the internet on tests, as well as our notes, any spreadsheets/programs/scripts we had pre-made, etc. The caveat was that the tests were structured in a way that if you didn't already know what to do, you wouldn't have enough time to look it up and still finish the test. Googling things takes time. And the test really only provided enough time to actually do what you already knew.

    You can also use random variables for each test, or groupings of tests, to prevent direct copying of answers. With a time limit, cheaters would have to wait for someone else taking the test to find the correct answer, send it out, and then modify it to match their own variables. If they can do all of that in a crunch, chances are they understand it pretty well on their own, even if they are lazy.

    1. Re:Use Random Variables and have a time limit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only provided enough time to actually do what you already knew

      When I was in undergrad, my first Calc I exam was about 30 minutes to perform something like 100 numerical integrations (eg S 1 to 3 x^2dx). At the end with everyone groaning his response was "if you knew it you could have done it". Of course, this was the class where I was so bored with homework I wrote a LISP function to perform symbolic derivation (up to and including the chain rule) for me and I think I still only managed a 50 or so.

      Three years later, I had another professor hand out an extra page of questions at a midterm exam with 10 minutes on the clock, announced that we had to complete that page as well, and then walked out the door and was never seen again (rumor was he had forgotten to renew his visa or something, our class got folded into another prof's and screwed everyone in both classes over)

    2. Re:Use Random Variables and have a time limit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What has also seemed to work decently is oversight. The one class I've taken where we were allowed to use the computers on our exams, the teacher made a point of showing us her setup: she was simultaneously viewing approximately a quarter of the class's screens at any one time, could throw it up on the overhead, or even lock them out, record it, etc (and of course the screens would randomly switch to a different set every so often).

      And she showed us. It was funny when she pointed out by name a couple people logged into facebook.

      Most people aren't going to risk anything when they know they're being watched.

  13. Wikipedia on Disk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Give them access to a copy of wikipedia on disk. If they can't find the information there, they will be unlikely to find it elsewhere on the internet, but there should not be explicit answers to test questions.

    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_on_CD/DVD

    1. Re:Wikipedia on Disk by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia is like the worst site to go to for equations and school help.
      100% of the time unlike all other sites, they use different syntax and often strange slightly different formulas for math type stuff or just horribly long winded, confusing, and stupid definitions and explanations for all other subject matter then the prof/book/other math/science sites.

      I think the problem is that the technical, not for laymen, articles of Wikipedia are written by experts for experts and as such really are not at all helpful for students who are learning dumbed down versions of the same stuff.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    2. Re:Wikipedia on Disk by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I think the problem is that the technical, not for laymen, articles of Wikipedia are written by experts for experts and as such really are not at all helpful for students who are learning dumbed down versions of the same stuff.

      So Wikipedia doesn't hold student's hands and do the test for them? Well cry me a fucking river.

      Actually I found Wikipedia a great reference for specifics. The fact that students need to actually KNOW something about the subject first is an even better indication that it would make for good reference material in exams.

      Or is this somehow incorporating a "no child left behind" policy?

    3. Re:Wikipedia on Disk by The+Moof · · Score: 2

      You may want to check out the Simple English Wikipedia.

    4. Re:Wikipedia on Disk by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      But if the teacher and the text book has been teaching a specific doctrine and using specific formulates then you can not just change all of that for the test.
      It is not student hand-holding, it is testing stuff that is not being taught.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    5. Re:Wikipedia on Disk by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      I had no idea that existed.
      the simple grammar, words, and short sentences seem like a strange rule. Like I said Wikipedia is too complex for the non expert in many fields but the problem is not because they use too long words.
      I cannot imagine that many people benefiting from simple English, all in all it is not a particularly easy subject but we all do get quite a lot of practice.
      If you are too young/stupid to understand the English language used in Wikipedia then you will not have much hope for the content.

      But I assume they target the content towards the non expert as well as simplifying the language.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    6. Re:Wikipedia on Disk by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Except now we're just making wild assumptions on the content of the course. Quality and relevance of material taught at every level varies greatly. It may not be a solution to all, but it may be a good solution in this case. That is up to the course co-ordinator to decide.

  14. Have an honor code by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 2

    My school wouldn't even proctor the exam, they'd just expel you if you were ever caught cheating (no ifs ands or buts) , so getting an A instead of a gentleman's C by cheating didn't seem worth it. It did happen of course, and roughly 0.1% to 0.2% of the student base would get booted every year.

    1. Re:Have an honor code by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      It's funny how "honour code" and "honour system" mean the exact opposite...

      That being said, I sincerely doubt your school was able to catch all of the cheaters with such a mild approach, especially in mathematics and the sciences. There are a lot of problems where even 'show your work' isn't a guarantee you'll get more than a little bit of variation in how students answer each question. High-level analytics on multiple-choice questions (e.g. "did these students get the same ones wrong every time?") isn't even completely statistically defensible if it can be argued that the professor was particularly bad at lecturing on a particular topic.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    2. Re:Have an honor code by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 1

      Well, it would be pretty ballsy to cheat in the middle of a test with other students around where you're going to blow the curve for everyone else. More often than not the accuser in these situations was a fellow student. I'm guessing there was probably a good amount of plagiarism on problem sets and such, but outright cheating in an exam I gotta figure was pretty rare.

    3. Re:Have an honor code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was once in a class where they announced that the graders (whom we had never met) had determined that certain students had cheated, and if they did it again, those involved would be flunked with no further warning.

      They never told us who they detected. They never told us what they saw that made them think cheating had happened. They never told us who "they" were. I was scared for the rest of the quarter that they would decide I had cheated, even though I had done no such thing (and never would), because I had no proof that they knew who was cheating or even what cheating looked like.

      Closed processes can be untrustworthy, and if they are, then the only people who are comfortable are the people who cheat and know they will at worst get what they deserve. Meanwhile, the honest know they will get at best what they deserve.

      I regret the logical fallacy in applying this argument to all instances of the "if you cheat, you're expelled" technique, but as an anecdote it is precisely correct: I lived under a cloud of fear in that class for the remainder of the quarter despite having done nothing wrong, and despite having aviled myself of all publicly-available knowledge of the process.

    4. Re:Have an honor code by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      YES.

      I know quite a few students in my university were, mildly (nothing official), suspected of cheating because we all used some really strange method of testing if a register was equal to 0 (in some hardware language).
      Well the prof had told us all this very interesting, long, and memorable story about how this guy had used this same method to speed up some compiler.

      If you have 1 curriculum taught by 1 teacher to many students, it is no wonder that many people answer the questions the same way.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    5. Re:Have an honor code by slew · · Score: 1

      I agree about the honor system vs honor code. When I was in school, we had an honor system which resulted in practically 100% take-home tests. I'm sure there were people who "cheated", but since most tests like mid-terms and finals were 6 hours in length, the pure length of the test and the requirement to show work meant that mechanical variations to disguise a plagerized exam were fairly easy to spot by graders. I was one of the students on the undergraduate standards and honors committee, so cheating things that bubbled up to that level were few and far in-between and tended to be solved by "neutralization" (forcing a re-take of the class) rather than expulsion for first time offenders.

      In contrast, many of my high-school friends went to service academies (airforce, anapolis, and west point) where they have strict honor codes. Basically more stick, less carrot. I doubt there was any less cheating, but since almost all tests were proctored, they were short in duration and thus determining cheating by analytical methods really wasn't that effective (I've been told that they tried, but back then, there weren't too many computer geniuses and the methods used were more subjective).

      Of course in my case, it didn't hurt that professors sometimes just tossed in questions along the lines of "for this problem, that doesn't yet have a known closed form solution, derive an approximation that uses [blah] technique..." where it was expected that you didn't figure them out, but spent 2/6 hours and 5 pages of paper writing down random equations. Then again, sometime they got an answer that they were looking for.. Cheap labor for the professors ;^)

  15. i don't buy it by callmebill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So what happens when all the "original content" makers die off? If we just search the web, we'll only get old information. Let people figure out how to create their own OC by searching within and solving/exploring on their own, so that the future internet will have new information. In the meantime, grade on the curve just to keep the education process moving.

    1. Re:i don't buy it by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      So what happens when all the "original content" makers die off? If we just search the web, we'll only get old information. Let people figure out how to create their own OC by searching within and solving/exploring on their own, so that the future internet will have new information.

      You may find it surprising that very few people come up with brilliant ideas entirely in isolation -- they build on the successes of others. The internet is just a way to find other people's successes faster.

    2. Re:i don't buy it by Fned · · Score: 1

      So what happens when all the "original content" makers die off?

      Start developing the rudiments of agriculture?

    3. Re:i don't buy it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because people ever shut up, eh?

    4. Re:i don't buy it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may find it surprising that very few people come up with brilliant ideas entirely in isolation -- they build on the successes of others. The internet is just a way to find other people's successes faster.

      He didn't imply that people live or learn in isolation or without the internet. He implied that the students, after being lectured, reading the text book and finding stuff on the internet, should be able to pass the exam without relying on the internet as a crutch or friend to cheat off of.

      The exam is to see if you have learned and retained what you were supposedly learning for the previous six months. If all you learned was how to search Google for the answers and cheat on tests, you're NOT an engineer or even worthy of passing that particular class. That you may be able to find the answer more easily while on the job is irrelevant. While taking the exam you're not doing the job, you're proving that you have retained enough of what they have been trying to pour into your head. Huge difference.

  16. Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One must either accept that cheating is an archaic, irrelevant term in a post-internet society, ar just not allow internet. Your choice.

  17. Why don't you ask your exams officer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was an exams officer for a couple of years and we used e-testing for certain subjects. The golden rule from the awarding bodies was to treat it the same way you would any exam, have invigilators watching the students. Requirements would vary between different awarding bodies (HE & FE levels). For a Poly it would depend on what you are teaching and who actually issues the qualification, but it's the exams office that would be responsible for telling you.

    From a technical standpoint lock the PC to a kiosk mode and firewall access to anything other than the exam site. Also remind students that if they cheat they fail and are removed from the course.

    1. Re:Why don't you ask your exams officer? by hal2814 · · Score: 1

      Exams officer? I've never even heard of that. Sure, I'll ask this exams officer. I'll also ask Inspector Spacetime while I'm at it.

  18. You Can't! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there are laptops involved with wireless connectivity, anyone could just start a 4g hotspot with their phone and bypass any firewalls blocking them from answers.

  19. Collaboration is a skill too by robot256 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you're going to allow them unlimited research, then why not let them collaborate too? Give the whole class a set of problems big enough that they need to organize and split them up to get them all done in time. And if they can find the solution already completed elsewhere, so be it, that's what a good engineer is supposed to do. The whole point of working in the real world is that your performance depends on those around you, so the only way to measure the performance of students individually is to put them in an artificial problem solving situation like a traditional exam. That's why we still have paper, closed-book exams in theory classes, and why there are an increasing number of "project classes" where the entire class grade depends on the success of a hands-on group project.

    1. Re:Collaboration is a skill too by spopepro · · Score: 1

      It matters who the students are collaborating with. Collaboration with peers is good (I think), even if they aren't in the class. "Collaboration" using paid help (sites exist all over the place in pay for homework type arrangements) is extremely harmful. I had it easy as a HS math teacher. My rule for take-home portions was "Use any resource you wish to. Only rule is no consulting someone who get's paid to do these types of problems". At the HS level professional help, whether it be tutors or relatives who are teachers/mathematicians, is very easy to spot from the format and language of the solution. For the OP, I'm not sure you can do this effectively at the undergraduate level.

    2. Re:Collaboration is a skill too by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      That defeats the purpose of individual education. What's the point of a degree, if it doesn't distinguish if you were the quarterback or the waterboy?

      There's plenty of time for teamwork in later life. In fact, companies usually prefer to hire team members that are good enough to deliver on their own.

    3. Re:Collaboration is a skill too by robot256 · · Score: 1

      That was kind of my point. The OP seemed to think that there is an easily discernible line between "research" and "collaboration", and to a certain extent I disagree, which is why I suggested that if you allow one you may as well allow the other. But like you say, that defeats the purpose of individual education, though for the record, companies also like hiring people who are good members of a team in addition to knowing the material. I think there's a reason the paper exam has lasted so long, and this discussion will very quickly narrow in on it.

    4. Re:Collaboration is a skill too by fermion · · Score: 1
      The nice thing about computer exams is that it is relatively simple for each student to have what is essentially a different exam, especially in math and science. There is no way to copy because the questions are not the same. This is not trivial, but it s not as complex. Collaboration can help a student select an approach, but the work to a solution has to be a students own work. If the length of a test is proportionately set with the amount of time a student familiar with the test should take, then the grade should be valid. A person is not going to spend too much time helping the neighbor because then they will not finish the test. A person who needs a lot of help will spend all their time getting help and not finish the test.

      As far as allowing access to the internet, at my level I allow it but discourage it. In most cases the students just waste their time trying to learn a single problem. If they have done the homework, and know the material, accessing the internet does not help them, and since I do not use standard multiple choice, they cannot communicate answers. I recommend the write a one page summary of what they are to know for efficiency, but really often let the use notes. These don't help much because they don't know where anything is.

      At your level, a white list of sites might work. It would be like letting them bring in the CRC or PDR. These resources assume a great familiarity with the content, and simply provide the basic information that one would not be expected to have memorized all the time.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    5. Re:Collaboration is a skill too by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Right. Sorry I misinterpreted you.

    6. Re:Collaboration is a skill too by Digicrat · · Score: 2

      I recall taking one or two CS classes with a similar methodology.

      Basically, the class was broken up into teams of 3-5 students and given a problem to solve. The final grade was a combination of the groups final answer, and individual write-ups by each student explaining the solution. Those write-ups may include a description of what you agree/disagree with in the overall group answer, and a description of what parts you specifically contributed to.

      This, particularly with larger classes and randomly-chosen teams, does a good job of fairly testing students abilities as a group and as an individual at the same time. Those that don't understand the work or do not participate fully will easily stand out when the individual contributions are read.

      Come to think of it, the same professor also occasionally walked out of the classroom for several minutes during regular (non-group) exams knowing full-well that a majority of the class would start talking/collaborating as soon as she left. In those cases, the nature of the test, and the teacher's implicit compliance, still made it more of an impromptu collaboration than actual cheating.

  20. John Taylor Gatto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't waste their time with trivia that they will remember forever. Have them focus on solving real world problems with real world constraints. They will respect you. They may even be able to see school as relevant and congruent to improving their world and their lives.

  21. Why Measure Problem Solving? by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

    Why are you measuring problem solving skills of your engineering students? Are you teaching problem solving? Or are you teaching a subject? All of them passed your schools entrance requirements. You should be able to assume they have some minimum IQ. If you have a dumb student that has mastered the material are you not going to pass the student?

  22. Proxy with logging. by erroneus · · Score: 2

    Simple answer. Allow them to do whatever and then review what they visited. If there is any sign of going somewhere that might be questionable, call for a review.

    1. Re:Proxy with logging. by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      So...you need to collect MAC addresses from everyone in the class before a test or something? Seems like a lot of infrastructure needed.

    2. Re:Proxy with logging. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Seems like a lot of infrastructure needed.

      You mean something like a computer lab, which any decent university should have several of?

  23. Exams test one thing. by forkfail · · Score: 2

    Practical exercises another.

    I'd say keep the exams closed book/no net, and the practicums open (you can't help but have them open). But then take 3-5 minutes per student and make sure that the practicum is at least fully understood by the student with an oral exam (TA's can handle that if too much workload).

    --
    Check your premises.
    1. Re:Exams test one thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      People should not be trained with a set of tools and then tested without it...

    2. Re:Exams test one thing. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Exams are not real world tests of a student's ability. That is an assignment. An exam is a measure of what a student has learnt. As long as you treat it as such it will be highly useful for separating good students from bad.

      Exam content should be relatively basic first principles type problems. Ask students to explain the first law of thermodynamics and how it applies. Don't ask them to use the law to solve an incredibly complex task, you're just weeding out students who are good at using calculators, a skill which will have less importance in real life when they get to actually use simulation software and the like.

      In 10 years time a professional should remember a good exam question by saying "I remember learning that" when confronted with a real world problem. They should remember a good take home assignment by saying "I remember doing that".

  24. cheating shouldn't be your problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ultimately, the cheater only hurts themselves. It shouldn't be your concern as to whether they are cheating. The only thing a lock does is keep an honest person honest. The cheaters will find a way, no matter what you do to restrict them, so the better solution is to make them take responsibility for their cheating by trusting them not to cheat.

    My alma mater has an honor code, that is essentially this, on every assignment for credit, whether paper, exam, etc... you had to write a statement saying you upheld the honor code and sign it. In return, professors were hands off when we took a test, they weren't allowed to be on the same room (they had to be available if we had questions, but they were not allowed to watch us take the test. The school TRUSTED us to do the right thing, and the amazing thing is, most people did. Cheating was certainly not eliminated, but I'm willing to bet that there was far less cheating than the typical college.

    1. Re:cheating shouldn't be your problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cheater only hurts himself plus those with the same degree by the same school that now becomes crap.

    2. Re:cheating shouldn't be your problem by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Ultimately, the cheater only hurts themselves.

      You've never taken a class that was graded on the curve, have you? Or had to vie for scholarships or other academic awards that have real-life consequences?

  25. Just put (parts of) the internet on a disk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure how this would work with copyright, but it would seem to achieve your objective if you store just about every resource you can possibly find on a flash disk or similar and hand it out, or share through a network folder. No need to make sure all the material is 100% correct either, because that is a skill in itself. Start with Euclid's Elements.

    If you're feeling particularly kind you could even make it available beforehand so they have time to familiarise themselves with the different data sources. I think that would come the closest to a real life experience a few months into a new job.

  26. Use a firewall? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could use a firewall on the machine of your outgoing connection or perhaps even setup a firewall on your router. The basic idea is that you want to filter connections so that only the hosts you want students to contact are available. On a Mac, there is ipfw. Here is a simple perl script:

    #!/usr/bin/perl
    $IPFW = "/sbin/ipfw -q"; # this will execute the commands we want and the -q will silence output from ipfw
    `$IPFW add 700 allow tcp from any to en.wikipedia.org out`; # allow outgoing connections to wikipedia
    `$IPFW add 710 allow tcp from any to upload.wikimedia.org out`; # '' ''
    `$IPFW add 9000 deny tcp from any to any 80 out`; #deny outgoing connections to the web

    You will of course, have to run it as root.

    To turn it off use:
    # ipfw -f flush

    I can make the full script available if you would find it helpful.

    How this helps.

  27. Thanx! by RandomAvatar · · Score: 1

    I was looking for a way to cheat, thanks for pointing me in the right direction with openstudy.com........

  28. Timed exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm in a program at NYU-Polytechnic. My professors have been fairly successful at building exams that they can complete in half the allotted time. Many of the students in my classes take most of the available time. It's not enough time to be able to do research unless you're a wizard at google hacking. Sure, they could ask someone or have someone take it, but the alternative is proctored exams, which is a ROYAL pain.

  29. reduce the exam time to a minimum by martin-boundary · · Score: 2
    Cheating on the internet takes time. You have to look for the problem keywords and read the questions that people are asking, and the answers. There may also be variable changes etc.

    If you allocate a *tight* amount of time for each problem, then students will find that it takes too long to cheat by googling. The downside is that you'll get complaints about your exam being too hard. In particular, students won't have time to make mistakes and correct them - they have to either know the material cold, or fail the question and move on.

    Also, remember to change the questions every year.

    1. Re:reduce the exam time to a minimum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Cheating on the internet takes time. You have to look for the problem keywords and read the questions that people are asking, and the answers."

      None of this prevents people from starting up an on-line chat session with someone who will do the problem for you and send it back.

  30. Part of it must be: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can forbid, but for some that only entices. Far better to create an atmosphere of merit, that is a clear sense that cheating is exactly that, cheating. Making clear that people'll be found out anyway and the obvious repercussions are only part of it. In a certain programming language related IRC channel I frequent we often see people with homework questions. We're happy to give a hint or explain things, but also make really clear that the solution must be your own. Exactly because homework is there for you to learn. That sense is what you need your students to have, so you need to work on conveying it.

    Beyond that, there are numerous ways to shuffle the questions and all that, but while necessary they're window dressing.

  31. Should be Solvable by Bob9113 · · Score: 2

    Suppose it costs $20/hour to hire a student to help proctor a test.

    Suppose students take four classes per semester, two semesters per year, four exams per class, two hours per exam. That's 64 exam hours per year per student.

    Hire one proctor for each of ten students. So each group of ten students will have to pay for $20 * 64 proctor hours. That's $1280 per ten students, or $128 per student per year for exam proctoring.

    Now, let them use the Internet as much as they want, and have one student-proctor monitoring each group of ten students for inappropriate behavior. That costs $128 per student per year.

    Now, hire an additional set of proctor-proctors for another $128 to manage and oversee the first set of proctors. Hire students from the business school and give them half a credit of management.

    With twice the estimated required number of proctors, that's still only $256 per student year to closely monitor the tests. That is not a large portion of college tuition.

    This sounds like a very solvable problem -- if the institution is flexible enough to come up with interesting solutions. Seems like being able to come up with that kind of solution would also be a pretty good way of judging the quality of a university -- good PR opportunity.

    Having grades align well with academic proficiency seems like a high-value line item for universities. Spending less than 10% of tuition to make exams more accurately test for subtle skills seems like a worthwhile investment to me.

    1. Re:Should be Solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So students aren't bribable? What if you were hired to proctor your girlfriend?

  32. Now you have to grade collaboration... by HockeyPuck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So does the whole group get an A, if they have some rock star who knows the material cold while 4 of the other students contribute absolutely nothing, and should have normally failed the exam?

    That's no different than one person doing their homework and letting their friends copy it.

    1. Re:Now you have to grade collaboration... by robot256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's also no different from a lot of office environments where a few people do most of the work and the rest get coffee and look over their shoulders. Not saying it's good, but it's reality. If you want to test individuals, on the other hand, you have to set up artificial boundaries and won't necessarily be able to measure their "real-world" performance.

    2. Re:Now you have to grade collaboration... by wanax · · Score: 1

      One of my very favorite classes, in algebraic combinatorics, allowed as much or as little student collaboration as anybody wanted to do.. there were two rules: if you worked on the problem with a group at all, everybody had to acknowledge the collaboration on the problem, and second, while you were allowed to discuss the method of proof etc, in detail, everybody had to go home and write up their own proof. I can say from experience that the range of quality in the proof write-up, even from the same methods and framework, was considerable. In fact, there were times that despite the fact that I essentially had a step-by-step outline of the proof that one of the guys in my group had come up with, I wasn't able to create a coherent write-up on my own (it turns out in one of these cases, it was an open problem). Of course, this only works in a hard class -- in this instance an A- was turning in satisfactory proofs to half the problems presented over the course (there were no exams).

      Also, at least in a case like the one I described, if you aren't able to contribute on a regular basis, nobody is going to be interested in working with you because the work is hard enough without having to provide remedial explanations constantly. Unless of course it's assigned groups, but then the class has a lot more to do with dealing with colleagues than collaborative problem solving.

  33. Tests are so 19th century. by unity100 · · Score: 2

    Really. actually even pre 19th century - times in which where knowledge was more theory than practice.

    Now, it should be practice. tests should be abolished. people should be given continuous assignments, projects and workshops, and instead learn things while doing them, as it should be - instead of memorizing stuff from a textbook and courses and to write them down when prompted.

    1. Re:Tests are so 19th century. by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Maybe for some fields. Not for all - or even most, where one needs both theory and practice.

      --
      Check your premises.
    2. Re:Tests are so 19th century. by unity100 · · Score: 1

      nay. even for theory-heavy, you can just give projects, assignments, workshops and have them actually practice what they are going to learn and learn by practice. even in theoretical physics.

    3. Re:Tests are so 19th century. by ODBOL · · Score: 1

      I have some experience trying to teach the way that you proposee, which I described in a separate thread on "Experience with open projects, no exams" before I noticed this thread.

      --
      Mike O'Donnell http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~odonnell/
    4. Re:Tests are so 19th century. by PPH · · Score: 2

      One problem with (homework) assignments is that the instructor is never really sure who it is that's doing the work. The dumb, rich kids will pay the smart, entrepreneurial ones to do the work for them.

      Come test time, you have to have a way to keep the test taker from simply forwarding each question to their help and then copy the completed answer down.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  34. IN short by geekoid · · Score: 1

    I don't want to do the work to create unique tests, so how can I keep them from getting outside information?
    Oh, I also want to allow them to get outside information.

    Look, there training to be engineers, you can not prevent them from access 'part' of the internet.

    Don't let them access the internet at all.
    THEY are there to learn that subject. As such they should figure it out. ANY engineer that has to look up everything its a crappy engineer.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  35. Brick and mortar test centers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I took the SCJP 6 years ago, Sun directed me to a one-room test center with maybe about 20 cubicles with PC's. The guy at the counter was the proctor, they handled tests for many different vendors, not just Sun.

    Not sure they still have these, but it seemed like a decent solution at the time. They could probably serve online colleges as well as IT cert exams.

  36. Simple... Record their desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Require them to turn over/UL the recording when they hand in their test.

    To make sure you have a time appropriate recording just have them visit, at the beginning and end of their test taking session, a website which displays the time and some unique identifier such as the an image of your liking (just make sure you never use the same image twice and always post it at the time the test starts).

    Even if you don't ever go back and watch the recordings the students will be less likely to attempt to "cheat" if they know there is someone potentially watching. Kind of like cameras in a store to would be shoplifters.

    Of course if you do have a student with the cajones to cheat and you don't catch them they will be more likely to try again the next time. But then again you will have all the recordings saved still so you can always go back and review previous test recordings if necessary.

  37. Change the Test Format by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you're worrying about testing them on what you want to test them on, you may want to start looking at BLOOM's Taxonomy and try to write your test questions at a more difficult level if you want to go down the "test question" route.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy

    I have had to deal with test development and the difference between Knowledge and Comprehension level questions for a few years at one of my jobs. First off, Knowledge level questions for tests are fairly easy to develop. Comprehension and higher level questions are much more difficult in the long run because there is a lot more that is involved in the question development side of the house and also in the test question validation phase too.

    Besides, if you are already asking these questions, you may want to look at the whole evaluation mechanism that you are using and maybe try to emulate it after something in the real world that would give you a better measurement of the Learning Objective(s) you are trying to accomplish with your students. To me, an overarching project with multiple stages to it over the time period of your course would be a much better method to accomplishing this versus doing a "test, quiz, etc." just to have some numbers, even though I'm sure your Stat-Addicts employers would love some kind of arbitrary measurement that they can use to justify buying more stuff or "why" they program is producing such wonderful students. Or even better, get them to work together in teams since that is how they do it in the real world anyway.

    Unfortunately, the way testing is done nowadays does not EVEN come close what people are seeing when they work collaboratively in the real world. So I would suggest that you look at that maybe and readjust your testing mechanism to work better for your learning objectives. You'll come across as a much more objective instructor and actually get phenomenal feedback from students with something that will stick with them when they move out into the corporate world and start working together successfully in collaboration because they had the chance to do that in your class.

  38. Don't do it. by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

    If you're at all worried about this, don't allow internet access. Either allow it or don't, but don't half-ass allow it. If you let them open any electronic device, you have to assume they have access to the full, unfiltered internet. Welcome to the 21st century, where we have cell phones with wireless tethering and all manner of wireless access dongles like 4G modems which are completely out of your control. I suppose if the classroom was surrounded by a Faraday cage and only wired internet to their desks was allowed you could try to filter it, but then you're putting yourself into an adversarial relationship with blackhat engineering students... not a great place to be. If you think you're smarter than them, you're probably right, but they still might try a thing or two you haven't considered.

    If you're testing them individually, due to the problems mentioned above, don't allow internet access at all. Cheaters will talk amongst themselves, which means in the best case scenario you'll have a bunch of students to fail, and in the worst case, you won't even know, so they'll have artificially higher marks than everyone else.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
  39. Setup Site Restrictions in the Browser by na1led · · Score: 1

    You can setup which websites are allowed and block all others right in the Browser Options/Content. It's called Content Advisor, I've done this for me kids, works very well, and it can be password protected. Takes 5 min. to setup.

    --
    -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
  40. My experience with cheating... by Karth · · Score: 1

    Is that the cheaters are going to cheat, no matter what you do. Had a guy who listened to class material on his ipod in class. Wrote answers on their hands. Texted them to each other. Bluetooth micro-earpiece and mumbled questions under their breath. You can't stop them. You just have to let them know that when they get their dream job, with their fake resume and their unjust transcript, and they get fired within a month because they can't do it, that perhaps they would have been better off learning the material.

  41. Take Home Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had an algorithms professor who gave take-home mid-terms and finals. His policy was that students were not allowed to talk about the exams with anyone except him.

    The problems sets were difficult to say the least. From a student's perspective, it's much easier to cram for an in-class exam than to solve difficult problem sets. Due to the nature of the given problem sets, I'm guessing that the professor could fairly easily spot attempts at cheating. The answers rarely consisted of a one-liner, and generally built upon the solutions to sub-problems. I'm also guessing that most students went to him to discuss at least the more difficult problems during office hours.

    The trick, I think, is to choose the right problem sets. There are a lot of problems that you can't simply look up on internet. I'm also guessing that you could take the concept one step further and have students orally defend a random answer.

  42. How it should be done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the best way to accomplish this is by having them solve a lot of problems in a time that would actually be too short. Then grade on a curve.
    That way, only the ones that are really able to solve them will. Also, give an extra problem for them to solve.
    For example, let's say 40 points is the maximum in the exam. Give them 11 problems to solve, each of them worth 4 points, in only an hour (or 2-3 depending on the subject and difficulty. Anyway, not enough time for them to solve everything).
    The best students will probably solve 9 or 10 problems, just barely. Most of them will solve 5, 6 problems, and get enough points to pass.
    The ones who don't know the basics will be able to solve 1 or 2 at most, through Google or cheating, because other students will not have enough time to help others.

    Also, change the questions every year, and if fewer then 10% get over 36 points, grade on a curve.

  43. Please ... by sunking2 · · Score: 2

    Tell us what school you teach at so I'm certain my daughter doesn't apply.

    1. Re:Please ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, you don't want her to set her sights on unattainable goals.

  44. Great for the individual, bad for the group by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is perfectly true. Part of a skillset is how to get help. Even, you could say, getting help through blackmail or cheating.

    But there's only so many people to get help from.

    Sure, those helpful people can set up a chat room during the exam and have everyone pass.

    Which is great until the helpful people all retire or stop bothering and none of the students can solve hard problems on their own.

    1. Re:Great for the individual, bad for the group by DaCentaur · · Score: 1

      You hit the nail on the head. What is Humanity to do when everyone just knows "how to get things done" but no one knows "how to do things"?

  45. Engineering students are clever by Chaseshaw · · Score: 1

    My thought process: block all ports other than port 80 - not effective, see tools like google chat block port 80 + internal dns a records to make sure chat/email sites like gmail, hotmail, yahoo mail don't get resolved - still not foolproof, and a chat client that operates on LAN could get around it (engineering students are clever after all), alternately phones can sit in your pocket and be tethered and no one would know you're not on their firewalled connection. use school-provided laptops? - too expensive How about make a program that the students are required to install to take the exam, and the program screenschots at random times what they are doing and uploads it to a LAN address so you can just see what they're doing? Maybe even get a programming class to write the apps and analysis software as one of their own final projects. - is definitely an invasion of privacy though (if students currently taking an exam can claim to have such a thing) Or just make the exams so friggin hard that if they have to google every little thing, they won't get a good grade because they won't finish it. Ask for things like to sketch flowcharts that will not translate over text or chat in a meaningful way. (and if 20 students all submit exactly the same flowchart due to an email ring, it'd be easy to spot for the grader)

    1. Re:Engineering students are clever by Chaseshaw · · Score: 2

      sorry bad formatting

      My thought process:

      block all ports other than port 80 - not effective, see tools like google chat

      block port 80 + internal dns a records to make sure chat/email sites like gmail, hotmail, yahoo mail don't get resolved - still not foolproof, and a chat client that operates on LAN could get around it (engineering students are clever after all), alternately phones can sit in your pocket and be tethered and no one would know you're not on their firewalled connection.

      use school-provided laptops? - too expensive How about make a program that the students are required to install to take the exam, and the program screenschots at random times what they are doing and uploads it to a LAN address so you can just see what they're doing? Maybe even get a programming class to write the apps and analysis software as one of their own final projects. - is definitely an invasion of privacy though (if students currently taking an exam can claim to have such a thing)

      Or just make the exams so friggin hard that if they have to google every little thing, they won't get a good grade because they won't finish it. Ask for things like to sketch flowcharts that will not translate over text or chat in a meaningful way. (and if 20 students all submit exactly the same flowchart due to an email ring, it'd be easy to spot for the grader)

  46. /facepalm by Sebastopol · · Score: 1

    Or it will train them not to think when wikipedia goes down...

    Some of the best instructors I had taught the concepts and not the "units", and all the notes and cribsheets in the world were useless if you didn't understand the concept. Not every instructor can be one of the top-10, so maybe we do need to handicap those profs with internet access. /s

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  47. Google Cache by sourcerror · · Score: 1

    Only allow them to use Google cache to be sure they don't use some chat site.

  48. so you want peopel who can cram to pass but not te by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    so you want people who can cram to pass but not test people with the can doing the work for real. If you want to LEARN you want it to be like a paper mcse when you can pass by just craning for the test?

  49. Easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    don't let them access the internet.

  50. student's point of view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Current student here - I know from experience using prefab tests makes it much easier for students to cheat. They can simply use a search engine for a part of the question and typically find an answer. Writing your own tests and changing them from year to year require students to do the work while still being able to use resources available to them.

  51. class layout by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have all the computers face the same direction. Place the instructor behind the students so he has visibility of all the screens. Give the instructor a computer that has remote viewing access to all the testing computer. Post the rules on the wall at the front of the room.

    For added effect (depending on the test content), have a grid that shows every screen projected to the front wall. Allow all the students to see it, but have them small enough that they can't really read anything. This shows the students that you are watching with just enough information for him to pick out his screen on the wall. It's like having a security cam with a monitor showing the person that is recorded.

    Make the exams where the first few questions are the same. Then the rest of the pool has questions that look a lot a like, but vary because of 1 or 2 key words that change the answer.

    Also offer students a 5% bonus if they report a student cheating and they get caught.

  52. Log it all by robi2106 · · Score: 2

    You could just allow blanket access, require everyone using a connection to get MAC address filtered access (so you know every device requesting access) and then log everything. Then provide stipulations that any live chat or forum use is forbidden. Anything except reputable / academic sources is forbidden. To make it extra fun, tail the log of the access point live (projector?) and grep it through a few good regex to weed out junk and find any terms associated with IRC, forums, etc etc. Allow them to ask for white listing sources, or provide your own (allow wikipedia, but not the discussions on each page which can be used to carry out conversations, etc). Or just allow all net access but restrict access to just the sites you think are of use (wikipedia, specific journals, publisher's reference information, google for unit converting on the search bar, etc).

    1. Re:Log it all by Garridan · · Score: 1

      You can still "chat" a fair amount using wikipedia's discussion pages... haven't recent events taught you that DNS filtering is not good enough?

    2. Re:Log it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it's not 100% clear if you've considered this, you don't want to "log it all" by logging packets at the network level, you want to trap all activity on the PCs themselves. Otherwise, someone changing http: to https: on some site is now evading your tracking since you can't intercept the URL they're visiting or the traffic due to SSL (although you do at least know the IP they're trying to hit, although that might not help if it's a search engine or proxy of some kind.

  53. Try a different angle... by Millennium · · Score: 2

    You're never going to be able to make cheating as hard as it is on non-open tests as it is on open tests. That's an inherent problem in allowing access to outside information, particularly when you're dealing with worldwide communications.

    What you can do is minimize the impact of cheating by working with the test itself: in particular, by setting a time limit based on its length. The idea here is to make it so that someone who constantly looks up outside information is highly likely to run out of time to finish the test. There's a delicate balance to be struck here, because you've said that some amount of going outside for information is not only to be expected but completely appropriate. But at the same time, you expect at least some knowledge to be "in-brain" (for lack of a better term), and so by using in-brain knowledge when it's there, a passing student will be able to finish the test quickly enough to beat the time limit. The trick is calibrating things, and I'm afraid I don't know a good solution for that.

  54. Virtual Machines by CapitalOrange · · Score: 0

    Create A VM that only allows access to sites you have approved ahead of time, then get something to track all the traffic like a Netwitness or record it all with Wireshark (save it as a PCAP). Tell them traffic to unhallowed sites will be investigated for cheating. The idea that you are monitoring their internet traffic will be just as powerful (if not more so) than the monitoring itself.

  55. Make your questions emphasize problem solving by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    The problem with a traditional teach-learn-test-forget-teach cycle is that students have to stuff as much of the lecture material into their brains as they can fit, pour it all out on the test and repeat the cycle. In my opinion, having tests that actually check for understanding rather than memorization capability would promote actual understanding of material instead of the repeated stuffing.

    I've been out of school for a while, but I have recent anecdotal evidence -- vendor certification exams. Specifically, I took the VMWare exam recently. I passed, but it was quite difficult because I work with the product on an infrequent basis -- that is, I don't have the entire GUI memorized. More than half the questions would be easy to answer if you had the GUI in front of you and could just check the available options; the rest tested your knowledge of product architecture, limits and quite frankly trivia items. I've never done well on exams like these, because I'm just not a memorizer.

    When I was in school a million years ago, with the Internet just becoming a viable research tool, some of my upper-division chemistry professors wouldn't give standard exams - we'd get "take home exams" which were actually mini-research projects that you could do pretty well if you were paying attention in class. The questions were just right in most cases...challenging enough to be a major pain to brute-force your way through, but made easier if you knew where to start looking (by knowing the material that was presented.) I'm not sure you can do this with a class of hundreds in freshman chemistry lectures, but when you have 20 or 30 students taking the class, and most are motivated to do well anyway, these are easier to do.

    So the question isn't "how do I block Internet access for the test?" but more along the lines of "How do I make a challenging-enough test that can be finished in a finite amount of time, and doesn't just test student's lookup skills?"

    1. Re:Make your questions emphasize problem solving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a professor ask us the exact location (full path) in the registry where we'd find a specific Windows NT registry key. I answered that I didn't know the exact location, but that the exact location didn't matter because I could look it up in moments and what mattered is that I knew it existed and what the various settings did, then proceeded to write what it did. He still marked it wrong. He was such an unbelievably pompous ass. I'd already passed certification exams related to the material and was working with the products we were studying in a real-world environment, but I was being forced to take the class as a requirement because they wouldn't let me challenge it. I had to constantly correct him on egregious errors. I'd finish the labs in minutes and just walk around helping other students because I was bored and because he wasn't doing his job. I hated that class and his testing methods SO MUCH. Oh, and it was a Friday night/Saturday morning class, and he'd give homework on Friday night for turn-in 11 hours later on Saturday morning.

  56. Lock out by Aeros · · Score: 1

    You could always lock out IRC or any other places you don't want them to go. Also let them know that all sessions will be recorded in case any questioning of cheating comes up. Of course this is only if this takes place on classroom computer where you have control.

  57. Hmm by lightknight · · Score: 2

    Ask them questions that require an application of working knowledge / theory, as opposed to vocab / rote memorization style questions.

    A little less "What does HTTP stand for?" a little more "I need to do some task using HTTP, show me how to make it do what I want it to do." That'll nuke using Google for an easy look up (for an answer), and potentially make anyone who copies off of another (via texting, emailing, cellphone, whatever) liable to fail the class (plagiarism ho!). See, by making it a non-trivial answer, you destroy the use of search engines for an easy answer, and by requiring some creativity (or even a fair amount), you can more accurately gauge a student's understanding, while also ensuring (via creativity) that no two student's answers should be identical. Of course, there are potential problems here, but it does, with a little tweaking, should help you identify the group-thinkers or no-thinkers with some ease. Plus, job security, as a teacher / professor, as you get to grade everyone's exams manually (the techs know you fear the machines, you need not be shy about it); just be sure to announce at the beginning of class that your style is that of the Athenians (Greek philosophers, focusing on thinking, etc.), or something to that effect.

    The key here, to berate the point, is to ensure each answer is unique. Since simple answers cannot be unique, it's impossible to ensure that cheating has not occurred. Whereas with the greater increase in complexity (but not necessarily difficulty, mind you) of the answer, the more unlikely it is that two answers can be the same without one person copying another. When complexity increases enough, you have the effect of the Mona Lisa, where if 5 people turn the same or similar enough picture in, you have an extremely good idea that they were in communication with one another. It's not mathematically impossible, of course, that they should all create the same Mona Lisa, only hideously unlikely. Hell, if the solutions are unique enough, you might even learn something from them.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
    1. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An exam structure that I used over 30years, at tertiary level (Engineering) was:

      It's easy to match supplied formulae with supplied data.

      But make some of the data available, not through a list of numbers, but by :
      - calculation, using well known earlier grade levels;
      - interpolation / extrapolation, using supplied graph paper;
      - multiple possibilities (via arsine, arcos, artan and the like), and the examinee has to choose by common sense.
      - uncommon units

      There are other ways of complicating data, and / or formulae.

  58. Let them tell you by iamhassi · · Score: 2

    Let the students tell you where they're going for answers.

    Tests are suppose to show that the students are learning, right? Then monitor the internet traffic and see where they're going for answers, that will show you if they've really learned how to find answers to questions or not. And give real life type word questions, not just "1+1 = ?", stuff like "If you have one apple and someone gives you another apple, how many apples do you have?"

    If they're going to sites like Openstudy to just ask someone to think for them then block access to that next test or live depending on your lab is setup, but remember sometimes going to forums and such are the best places for answers to real-life problems so I'd be careful trying to decide what sites to block.

    Also you didn't really explain how they would have access so I assumed they would be in some sort of school computer lab, not on their personal laptops, and you have access to the network traffic and can restrict access at will.

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    1. Re:Let them tell you by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Then monitor the internet traffic ...

      How? How do you know what sites I'm visiting on my iPad or Android phone? Do you think I'm going to allow you to install tracking software?

      The answer to the question being asked is: you can't. If you allow access to "the Internet", you allow access to the Internet and what it includes.

      The question you should be asking is "how can I test what I need to test without requiring reference material?", which first requires asking "what do I need to test?" Many people think that making up tests is easy. Good tests aren't easy to make.

      You talk about "problem solving". Well, if that's what you want to test for, ask questions that probe that ability without requiring minute detail or arcane trivia. Or provide the arcane trivia in the question (along with a significant amount of distracting information). E.g., if the solution requires a knowledge of the density of water at four different temperatures, provide a short table of density, refractive index, dissociation constants, and a couple of other physical properties at ten temperatures. This will test the ability of the student to determine exactly what property of water is relevant.

      Also, grade on the work and not the answer. If someone needs to have memorized some equation to get the correct answer and you didn't provide it, but the equation itself is not part of what you want to test, give credit if he gets close. Does the work show an understanding of the concepts if not the specific equations?

      Also you didn't really explain how they would have access so I assumed they would be in some sort of school computer lab,

      Well, yes, if you only let them use the computers you give them, you can try to limit their access to other things. If you are in a lab, why not just let them use the reference books in the lab?

    2. Re:Let them tell you by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Not just monitor, but actively block certain sites.....or better yet, whitelist resources they should be using and only allow them to go to those. Have the students submit a list of sites they'd like as well (especially if you gave them similar questions for the homeworks and had them cite their resources).

  59. Let them cheat! by jholyhead · · Score: 1

    As you say, when they get into the workplace, if they need to know something, they're going to Google it. By limiting the resources they can use when answering exam questions, you are increasing the distance between education and the workplace - who does that help?

    So set them realistic problems and let your students solve them by hook or by crook, just they way they'll solve them when they're on a payroll.

    At least that way, the students who do well on the test will be the ones who will do well in industry, as opposed to the current situation, where we have engineers who can do CFD by hand, but can't tell the difference between Aluminium and Steel.

  60. Ask good questions? by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

    Ask questions that require the student to demonstrate synthesis of the various things you've wanted them to learn. They might be able to google individual steps to solve the larger problem, but they wouldn't be able to google the end result - they'd have to know what they're doing. Put a time limit on it.

    For example, in an introductory programming class (a CS 100 level course at my university), the final for the class consisted of this:

    "Take a sound file (speech.wav) consisting of several dozen words with brief pauses between them and create a program that will output a new sound file with a name of the user's choice. The new sound file will consist of the words from the original file reorganized into a random sequence. The code must be commented to explain your thinking at each step. You have 3 hours for this task."

    That task would require that the student understand how to analyze a problem, break it into smaller problems, design a process to address each of those problems individually, and then combine those solutions into the finished program.

    Oh, sure - the student could google "how do I resize an array in java" (which might be necessary to know to accomplish several steps in the task), but they would need to know so much more in order to even realize they needed to know that, and that stuff wouldn't be something they could just look up.

    The only downside would be the ability of the students to send the question to another student who is more advanced and who would spit back an answer; to guard against that you'd need to actually have an idea of what your students are capable of individually.

    --
    Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  61. The Point by lymond01 · · Score: 1

    So sure, in real life you can look stuff up. I'm in the computer field after going through a BSEE a gagillion years ago. I've seen desktop support folks try to step into the server admin role thinking they can get by with Google and the MS Knowledgebase. Invariably screw it all up. Plugging in a mouse, troubleshooting email on the client -- sure you can flip through menus or decide that the flat end of the mouse isn't going to fit into the round port. But for more complex things, some training and theory are necessary.

    In terms of exams, you want your students, especially engineering students, to have enough theory that they can go out and design stuff: create it from scratch. If all they know is the right equation for this or that and when the most likely time to plug in a number is, then you've graduated a tech, not an engineer. Don't tell the physicists, but engineers can come up with ideas too. :-)

  62. Honor code? by NEDHead · · Score: 1

    Followed up with lie detector test.

  63. Content Filtering Firewall + Activity Monitor by BurstElement · · Score: 1

    Assuming your .edu already has a content filtering firewall (e.g. Smoothwall + SmoothGuardian) just get a profile created specifically for exam purposes with rules to block all IM/Chat programs, blacklist cheating type sites and queries and log all non whitelisted activity.

    If the hardware is .edu owned then you might also want to consider something like Deep Softwares "Activity Monitor" so you can audit the exams... or perhaps just insinuate that you have installed something along those lines in the hope / knowledge that most students won't risk it.

  64. Do not give the same test twice by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Seriously, that is the big issue. Come up with classes of questions/answers and then have them picked in random. Likewise, have the results checked by the computer. If somebody differs, then they are handchecked.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  65. I think it's Overkill by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

    It's fairly clear that engineering students likely have the skills to comb the Interwebs for information. Instead of giving tests that might require it, give an open book exam and make sure that all the references they need are in the materials allowed during the test.

    This will test the students' ability to identify what information they need to solve the problem, without giving them access to information that could allow them to cheat. Creating a test that requires access to the Internet to gather the information required to take the test is laziness on the part of the test creator, IMHO.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
  66. Or... by slew · · Score: 2

    I would say to avoid short answer questions like multiple choice or one word answers.
    Essays are probably harder to cheat on without getting caught.

    Or...

    Make every question 20-multiple choice w/ different sets of 20 answers out of 100 on every test. Picking correct one by collusion is more difficult. To actually force the problem solving, interspersing questions where the correct answer is not listed and "none-of-the-above" is correct makes collusion even more difficult.

    Bonus points for giving a test that where all the correct answers, but 1, on a 20 question multiple-choice test are "none-of-the-above". My high-school calculus teacher did that and I really, really had to think hard about that one question (which happened to be the last one) that wasn't none-of-the-above like all the other ones...

  67. Don't bother by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 1

    If you design a good test, and grade it well, then there will be no way to cheat.

    I would design questions that require a good understanding of the material to answer, let them do whatever they want online, and then talk individually with students that you think might be copy/pasting answers, whether from other classmates or from the internet.
    A 2 or 3 minute conversation with them will tell you pretty easily whether they understand their answers or not.
    If they understand their answers well enough to convince you they could have given them legitimately then it doesn't matter what actually happened, they are either learning what you are teaching, they already know it, or they have good enough grasp of the whole field of study that they can fake it.
    Any of those three outcomes is sufficient for your purposes, at least in my opinion.

    The hard part here, of course, is designing good questions. It's incredibly hard to design good tests, which explains how few of them you find out in the wild.

    --
    RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
  68. Open-note = nearly guaranteed pass by sirwired · · Score: 5, Funny

    Many of my engineering classes allowed "formula sheets" or a "formula card", usually a single sheet of paper or a 4x6 index card, that the student was responsible for formulating themselves.

    I used this to completely ace the exam in several of my EE classes where I otherwise would have had great difficulty. (Analog just wasn't my thing while becoming a CompE; I rocked my digital and computer classes.)

    My tactic: Virtually all professors provide sets of review problems, and the answers to the review problems (along with all homework questions and mid-terms) were on file with the library. I'd go the library and make copies of those materials. I would then go back to my room and pass-through every single homework assignment, mid-term, and review question, and solve every problem to the point where the remainder of the solution was "busy-work." If, after much staring, I simply could not figure out how the professor got from point A to point B, I simply copied the entire solution to that problem (writing very small with a very sharp pencil if I was confined to a card, or just about 3 rounds of reducing on the copy machine if I wasn't) onto my formula sheet/card.

    90% of the time, the problems where I had to copy the solutions wholesale onto the card ended up on the exam (with some trivial parts changed), and I was invariably one of the few people in the class to get it right, despite the fact that I had utterly no idea how the solution worked.

  69. Maybe take a different strategy by jgreco · · Score: 1

    When I was screening new hires with a knowledge quiz, I would allow them Internet access - but only for the last third of the time, and after giving them a red pen. Sometimes it is knowing how to find an answer, not actually knowing the answer itself, that is meaningful. It was also a simultaneous stealth test of Internet search skills. The red answers, and ratio of red to black, was frequently interesting...

  70. Don't try to catch them with technical measures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We've had this exact problem. Setting up a policy that is both fair and hard for engineering students to bypass, is absolutely non trivial.

    Instead, tell the people watching the exam to watch for extended keyboard noise. Most people reading material will use the mouse and perhaps type a few keywords, while cheaters will be typing out full sentences.

  71. Collaboration by CDS · · Score: 1

    Make the test truly collaborative. Indicate that anyone can ask for help, anyone can offer help (more like a normal work environment). But indicate that credit for help is required. Put a spot by each question for "person asked" and "help given" -- that way person A has to mark "B helped me" on his test, and person B marks "I helped A." on her test. It'd be best if you can also make the questions unique. You want the help to be more than "pssst! what's the answer to number 2?"

    Of course, helping someone else will also reduce the amount of time you have to complete your OWN test, so there's a certain amount of selfish time-management that has to occur as well.

    You could then give a certain number of collaboration points for the test: "Person B assisted in 6 questions, and asked for assistance on 4 questions. She gets an additional 6 points, and loses 4 points - for a net gain of 2 points."

    This encourages helping others, and discourages asking for help. If the names don't match up, then someone may be cheating....

  72. Ultimate Solution to Prevent All Cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This should work against all types of cheating.

    Place each student in a sealed metal box with an automatic rifle built into the wall. Also build into the wall a video camera and a sign dictating the rules for the gun to go off.

    Hook up the output of video to a facial expression algorithm. If the output of the algorithm shows any kind of deviousness in the expression of the student, or the student attempts to leave the view of the camera, have it trigger the weapon. Make sure the student knows that the gun is controlled by solely by computer, so they won't be tempted to try and reason with it.

    You might want adjust the logic to trigger in response to anything but a happy expression. This will prevent a student from trying to hide their cheating thoughts behind a frown or a blank stare.

  73. It depends... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    If your test is about problem solving, finding a way to solve a problem, then allowing internet access seems fine. However, if the test is about are they learning specific engineering techniques and principles, then it seems letting them search the internet for a solution would be inappropriate. While it is true that in the real world, they will have all of those online tools, a classroom setting is not a real world. Get your calculations wrong in a class and you flunk a test, in real life a bridge collapses and people die.

    1. Re:It depends... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it is true that in the real world, they will have all of those online tools, a classroom setting is not a real world.

      That's most definitely true. I can use the internet as a resource at my job, but I didn't get hired because I know how to Google. You need to understand the concepts of whatever it is you're doing, even if you don't quite know how to get from point A to point B on a particular problem, because otherwise you're sitting there not even knowing what the fuck you're supposed to look for. That's the real world. The "understand the concepts" part comes in the classroom. (Or at home in front of your computer, or whatever.)

  74. Try a real world problem by Karmashock · · Score: 1

    Give them the same sort of info they'd have if they were doing the job for real.

    No one cares if the engineer looks things up on the internet while working on something. It's all about results. If his solutions are correct and reliable then no one cares.

    So test them with real world problems giving them no more info then they'd have outside your classroom.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  75. Longer tests by AmazinglySmooth · · Score: 1

    Make the test so long that you can only finish it if you know the material.

  76. Is there cell coverage in the classroom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless you're confident you can keep the students from using other connectivity methods (have one terminal per student and disalow personal devices, faraday cage around every student), then there's no use trying. What's keeping students from setting up an adhoc network to communicate with eachother, or just use the personal WAN or bluetooth connectivity their smartphones provide, without taking them out of their pockets?

    I'd have to go with the other posters who suggested crafting the test so the students each get different enough tests, and structure the questions so that without a prior working knowledge of the subject, all the internet in the world can't help you finish the test on time.

    But, an acual answer to your question could be to have the students submit a list of websites ahead of time and restrict them to only those they requested, and block any other traffic. You could even force them to a single local server with a cached copy of each of the sites.

  77. Make your tests cheat resistant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Caveat: I got my degree in mathematics. Sometimes friends of mine would TA and we would have these thought experiments. Some of the methods that were used:

    1) First we would make half the test conceptual and half the test computational. For the conceptual part in a calculus test we would say stuff like:

    a) In order to find the speed function of a travelling ball based on its acceleration, we compute the antiderivative. Why?
    b) Calculate the anti-derivate. Here is the speed function. Explain the importance of the K constant.

    2) Reword a homework problem to see if they really know what is going on. If the student does, the problem is straight forward:

    Here is a speed function. We know that the initial starting point of a ball is $CONSTANT from where you are observing. What is the displacement function.

    3) We look at lots of old text books and find well worded questions that provoke thought for extra credit during and after the exam. It offsets the focus on test taking skills.

    4) We ask them not to cheat. Those that can wouldn't. Those that need to are only fucking themselves. Make the test short enough with enough questions based on testing concepts and those that need to cheat will by and large run out of time. Then the curve will take care of separating the wheat from the chaff.

  78. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think about your job. What do you do that can't be looked up on the internet? The odds are pretty good that you deal with a lot of issues that are not something a good Google search will help with. Otherwise, Google would've replaced us all!

    If your main concern is that one kid will find the answer and share it with all of his buddies, then there are strategies to combat that. The easiest strategy is to make the class competitive. Grade on a curve, or inflict severe grade penalties to everyone involved in copied solutions. This has many drawbacks, but fostering competitiveness is one way to reduce collaborative solutions.

    Another strategy involves randomization. Add a certain amount of randomness to the work (this can be easy to automate with LaTeX for tests of large classes). If you're trying to teach them an equation with a formula of (A+B+C)/D =E*F, then ask some of them to solve for A, some for D, some for F, and so on. Better yet, ask for situations when this equation is appropriate and the limitations of this equation. If you're trying to teach them how to take derivatives, then give each student a slightly different equation to take the derivative of (and remember to make life easy on yourself by automating the solution, so you can just print out a list of what the correct answer should be for each student).

    You can also use the perception of randomness or the perception of a curve to try to curtail bad student behavior. Tell them you are grading on a strict curve, and then actually use a different system (note: this can get you in trouble at some universities - but it's worth considering that students aren't likely to complain about getting a better grade than expected). Add a cover to each test so that it looks like there are 5 or so different variations, but don't actually vary the test. Construct a few clever questions with different variables that all reach the same answer at the end - they look random but all the answers will be consistent for ease of grading.

  79. ok traning but not CS theory for server by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    that the flat end of the mouse isn't going to fit into the round port. that is what you get from some people with a BA in CS.

    Now for server that should be some kind of tech school / learn on the job training.

    and desktop support is a good starting point to get into sever now where did they mess it up?

    also troubleshooting email on the client is likely more about how that client works vs the theory of email

  80. Also in the real world by melonman · · Score: 1

    ... the candidates could ask the person sitting next to them. Or maybe get a contractor to do the work for them. Or... at some point, exams have to stop being exactly like the real world. Otherwise, you need an exam that looks like and lasts as long as the career the candidate might take up on passing the exam.

    --
    Virtually serving coffee
  81. tests need to be rethought by ThorGod · · Score: 1

    If you have to rely on removing all of my resources to 'test me', then your test is invalid. Unless you're training fighter pilots or some other 'split second decision' job, my ability to perform has less and less to do with my ability to memorize.

    --
    PS: I don't reply to ACs.
    1. Re:tests need to be rethought by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      If you have to rely on removing all of my resources to 'test me', then your test is invalid. Unless you're training fighter pilots or some other 'split second decision' job, my ability to perform has less and less to do with my ability to memorize.

      Some would argue that having you rely only on your own resources instead of outside resources shows whether or not you actually understand the concepts being tested. For most professions (engineering, medicine, law, etc.), one's ability to memorize is directly proportional to one's success in the field. Do you really want your doctor to have to google everything?

    2. Re:tests need to be rethought by ThorGod · · Score: 1

      I made an exception for those professions. Most professions aren't that way, anymore.

      You had better believe I want all the books consulted before they christen a new mile-high bridge.

      --
      PS: I don't reply to ACs.
  82. and use the jigsaw voice by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and use the jigsaw voice.

    Also don't put macgyver in there.

  83. 2 methods by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 1

    1: Ask them this question, grade the responses on a curve and use the best answers for your method.

    2: (non-silly method) Split the class into small groups of 4-8 students. Arrange a list of subjects and have half the group form test questions based off of the list. Make note of any preferred methods, or requirements to use in the questions (this is where you can guide them into asking the right kind of questions). Have the other half solve the questions. Then have them switch sides and repeat. Grade based on how challenging the questions are, scope of the answers, and use of requirements. Keep a DB of previous questions submitted to verify originality. PROS: gives students ample opportunities for failure, makes for some very interesting and engaging tests, helps to teach how to find a problem AND how to find a solution. CONS: Makes grading the tests a lot more time consuming.

    --
    Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
  84. Allow review time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of our professor would allow us 15 minutes to review the relevant sections of the book. Then we would close the book and go from there. This was a decent compromise I thought.

  85. Actual monitoring? by Riceballsan · · Score: 1

    What about putting VNC or any remote desktop software on the PCs. Warn them in advance that they are permitted to research, but being caught outright asking anyone inside or outside the classroom is an automatic 0. Randomly pop into different students screens from your PC. (the benefit of remoting vs walking towards them, is by the time you connect in, it is too late to alt F4 as they have no idea who is about to be screened, and no ability to predict where you are looking, or even know whether you are in their screen or browsing slashdot.

  86. Web tracking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or maybe something that grabs a screenshot every 25 or so seconds (randomized so that the student never knows when it will take the screenshot). That way the trail of the student can be retraced. I am assuming that the goal is to prevent a student from posting the test question onto a place like Slashdot and get an answer that way, versus doing the actual research. I've seen this almost exact thing happen over at gamerswithjobs.com luckily they are usually good at giving hints, but leaving the answer up to the poster to figure out until a while after the question is posted.

    1. Re:Web tracking software by Riceballsan · · Score: 1

      NOOO we've all been tricked.... This is the askers Esay question for a test!

  87. Blog 'em up, professor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't mean to rain on everyones' "wikipedia should be allowed"-parade, but wouldn't it be simple if students would just collaborate? One smart guy/gal solves the questions and posts them on his/her blog. Wham, everyone correct answers all the way. Heck, the smart one doesn't even need to be at the exam. Just post the questions to stackoverflow.com and wait for the results.

    So what would be the point of that exercise? Wasn't the point of an exam to gauge the individual capabilities of every student?

    It doesn't matter that you'd actually use wikipedia to answer all your real-life questions. Wikipedia is not on the test, you are. Who's gonna write wikipedia if everyone is just reading it? You're in the school to learn the stuff so that you know it and can then use your badass skills to write some wikipedia!

  88. Monitored Access by Fieryphoenix · · Score: 1

    Provide the devices on which internet access is allowed. Visually record and log all activity on each device and let students know beforehand that the recording will be made.

  89. Only give access to a great big wiki site. by jeffeb3 · · Score: 1

    Let them edit it throughout the semester, and then only give access to that site (hosted on a machine on a LAN, not connected to the internet). Then everyone would have the same information base, and they could search for information. You could even keep the information alive through semesters. Make sure it's read only during the test. And you can go through it quickly after writing the test to make sure no information is too helpful.

    Even better, or also, you could host a stack exchange like service too, that people can record and exchange information for the projects they do during the semester. Teaching is the best way to learn, after all...

  90. Monitoring by solidraven · · Score: 1

    Get a few people to walk around and monitor students. It's hard to cheat if somebody is looking over your shoulder. That's what they did when we were allowed to use our own laptop on tests.

  91. Experience with open projects, no exams by ODBOL · · Score: 1
    In a number of classes that I taught, I eliminated in-class timed tests entirely, and substituted open projects.

    I encouraged, but did not require, collaboration.

    As much as possible, I defined in advance how much accomplishment constituded C, B and A work, respectively. I was never able to make this perfectly objective, and the clarity varied according to the material and my own imagination in the project assignment.

    To evaluate each student's individual accomplishment, I interacted with the students. Sometimes I did this in scheduled individual face-to-face interviews. It was OK for a student to talk about other people's work as well as her own. But I only gave credit for insight explained to me through description of work, not for work that just sat there on paper (or online). Once in many years of this practice I encountered a student who appeared for the interview and seemed unable to express himself in a clear sentence. I made a wild guess for that guy's grade, and vowed to have midterm interviews as well as final interviews as much as possible.

    Later, when I had a Wiki server, I required projects to be displayed incrementally on the Wiki. I had a very difficult time convincing students not to wait until the last day and dump lots of material out of the blue (nobody who did so got a good grade). In (thankfully only) one case, a student who failed to attend class (attendance and participation in discussion was mandatory according to written posted instructions) sent me a "project" 1 hour after the absolute final deadline, and seemed shocked that I awarded a D (the only grade below C I ever had to assign in this system).

    I never achieved 100% understanding of the ground rules (in spite of posting them in explicit instructions on the Web and discussing them in class). There were always students who failed to understand that only iteration could produce a good result on these sorts of projects, and a few who understood but failed to act (sometimes requesting incomplete grades at the last minute). I was working on intermediate deadlines to eliminate such behavior as much as possible, but stopped teaching before I worked it all out. One student who understood, but failed to perform, in one class signed up for another topic taught in the same way, and did quite well.

    For the students who understood, and acted upon, the instructions, the results were very good. I could tell students as they went along what progress they had made toward C, B, A, and avoid the end-of-term suspense that I find counterproductive. Evaluations at the time of the classes varied a lot, from those who loved the system to those who couldn't stand it. A few students got in touch years later, and were very positive. These were all students who had done well, and it is very unusual to hear from dissatisfied students long after class, so I have insufficient information about students for whom my approach did not work.

    The principle that I tried to follow was to avoid completely any requirement in which the possibility of cheating was relevant. I tried to design all assigned work so that the accomplishment required worthwhile learning while using all available resources, including fellow students and outside consultants. I believe that this principle is good for pedagogy, and not just a way to avoid worrying about cheating (although my experience in a few cases of cheating in classes with conventional assignments and exams was painful enough that I might choose to avoid the possibility even if it were not good pedagogy).

    I found this principle to require a lot of rethinking, and the application to each topic, context, instructor, and type of student is different. I'm not convinced that conventional assignments and exams are better in this respect, I think that they only make it easier to avoid feeling bad about the failure by attributing it entirely to the student.

    I also think that there are particular topics and contexts for which my approach is not appropriate, but I tend not to like teaching those topics in those contexts.

    --
    Mike O'Donnell http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~odonnell/
  92. "Real world" problems require "real world" problem by MikeyNg · · Score: 1

    It depends on what your course is, but if you want them to solve problems in a real world setting, you give them real world problems. Last time I checked, even with the vast amount of information that's available on the internet, there are still problems out there that need solving. Offer those up.

    If you simply ask them to solve equations, that's not really solving problems in the real world. But if you ask them to design a bridge/circuit, that's something else. The problems should also be open-ended. If you have simple questions with only answer, that's easy to cheat. But having open-ended questions with multiple paths and/or multiple solutions makes it much more difficult to cheat. (And are probably better examples of real world situations.)

    SHOW YOUR WORK!
    The more steps that need to be taken, the more 'samples' you have to see if people are simply rote cheating or not. If I'm solving an equation and I need twenty steps, and someone else does it in the same twenty steps - guess what? One of us copied off of the other. Even if they are smart enough to not copy all twenty steps verbatim, that still requires some level of intelligence. :)

    PUNISH HARD
    As the likelihood of catching someone cheating decreases, the penalty should likewise increase. Just make it clear that if you're caught cheating, you get a zero on the exam, and it doesn't matter if you were the person doing the copying or being copied from.

    --
    Where the wind blows, the tumbleweed goes.
  93. White/blacklist or track access by abroadwin · · Score: 1

    You can restrict access with a whitelist or a blacklist, as someone has already mentioned. Another option is to install software to track which websites the student accesses; you could factor their research process into the grading and penalize those who access forbidden sites. If you do this, be very explicit about which kinds of sites are OK and which aren't so you don't have too much of a battle on your hands after the exam.

  94. set some google bombs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a few weeks before the exam, create a variety of fake webpages containing incorrect info relating to the test topic (but with enough on there that someone who really knows the stuff can tell it's wrong). Then if you see those 'facts'/formulas on the exam, you've got direct proof of copying *and* of stupidity.

  95. Re:so you want peopel who can cram to pass but not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    >so you want people who can cram to pass but not test people with the [can?] doing the work for real.

    Well this is one of the biggest problems that students from China face. Chinese academics tend to be based on a reward system for rote memorization, and often go as far as to literally punish attempts at creative thinking. So a student who has been brought up in that culture and then transported into an American university situation has a huge benefit and an even bigger liability. Asset, is that they are typically much better at straight memorization and cold recitation than the average American student. Liability is that it typically does not even occur to them to do any sort of lateral or particularly creative thinking. Better teachers and curriculum developers understand this and anticipate it and design mitigating controls into the curriculum. Poor teachers just assume that "Asian students are smarter" (because they can usually memorize like mad) and reward this to the detriment of others.

  96. Logging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Log all of the traffic and let everyone know you are doing so.

  97. You're solving the problem the wrong way by LrdDimwit · · Score: 4, Informative

    This problem is not amenable to technical solution. Trying to stop attackers from cheating via the Internet, by using some a filter or other form of limited access -- is as futile as trying to solve the halting problem, and enumerate the irrationals, at the same time.

    The halting problem fails because it's too easy to craft countermeasures aimed deliberately at the scanner. Enumerating the irrationals fails because there is so much complexity, it's literally impossible to go throgh it all.

    But just because you can't solve this problem technically doesn't mean it can't be solved. It's difficult, but I believe it might be possible. Don't bother beyond the basics. Get a computer lab set up with computers you control. Don't allow the students to bring in any USB sticks or CDs.

    Then simply install tracking software on every PC. (You can also use a network sniffer to back this up.) The idea isn't that to prevent cheating technically; rather, you want to preserve the ability to tell that people have cheated, and simply punishing them under the existing rules.

    You tell everyone in the class that you'll be monitoring their internet usage during the exam. Then tell everyone what you consider cheating. Have your grad students go through the logs manually; the difference should be fairly obvious.

    1. Re:You're solving the problem the wrong way by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

      You tell everyone in the class that you'll be monitoring their internet usage during the exam. Then tell everyone what you consider cheating. Have your grad students go through the logs manually; the difference should be fairly obvious.

      Why waste the time of your grad students or TAs?
      Turn the log files into an exercise for another professor's computer science class.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:You're solving the problem the wrong way by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      There's one possible technical solution:

      Grade to a curve, and make every student able to see every page that any other student visits. If you go to gmail, then every other student will be able to see every email that you open. If a friend emails you the answer, then the entire test group will see that answer, and everyone will get the average mark. If they just look at, for example, the wikipedia page listing a formula, then only other students who are capable of applying it will get any benefit, and those students are probably able to find the formula themselves.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:You're solving the problem the wrong way by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > Enumerating the irrationals fails because there is so much complexity,

      Actually, it's much more basic than that: enumerating the irrationals fails because there are too many of them -- there aren't enough counting numbers to go around. (Yes, I know, there are infinitely many counting numbers, but it's a strictly smaller infinitely large number than the number of rationals. If you are in doubt about this, research Cantor's diagonal.)

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    4. Re:You're solving the problem the wrong way by jonadab · · Score: 1

      Wait, did I just say rationals? I meant irrationals.

      Rationals, of course _can_ be and _have been_ enumerated. Again, see Cantor's diagonal.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  98. record their access during the test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at what they did on the internet as part of their solution to the problem you presented (the test).

  99. Memorization vs Understanding by Gim+Tom · · Score: 1

    Although my engineering degree is over 40 years old now, I still remember one exam in Fluid Mechanics where everything was open book and open notes. It didn't help one bit if you didn't understand the concepts. One of the final exam problems was a very complicated siphon system and the numbers that one needed to plug into the applicable equations to calculate flow rate were not too hard to find. However, the problem was rigged so that the highest point on the path of the siphon was more than 33 feet above the source so the equations did not apply. However, this was NOT very obvious. If you understood how a siphon worked, and took the trouble to see whether this one satisfied the conditions necessary, you got full credit for just writing down the flow is zero since the necessary conditions for flow are not met. If you tried to use the numbers that were more obvious to calculate the flow you would get a reasonable answer that was completely wrong. This was one of three very similar problems on the final exam.

  100. Asian students also do solo work as group by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Asian students also do solo work as group

    I meant to say so you want people who can cram to pass but not test people if they can do the work for real.

  101. well then degree should not be in the work place by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    well then degree should not be in the work place.

    Let's say take 3 people all the same who is better for a IT / desktop / server job.

    1 who if a lot cert tests (ones that can be passed by cramming by people who don't know what they are doing)

    2 who did a lot of IT work on there then / maybe went to a tech school that has real job skills.

    3 Some one with a mostly theory based CS with just about none of skills that you get at a tech school.

    Well the real work place is not individual and with some things you need to test people on the job / in real work place conditions. So in some places testing individual may fit but most real work is group based with open books / open Google. Even before Google you had reference books in the work place.

  102. Another Person takes the Test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your talking about taking tests from home, it is impossible to determine who is actually taking the test. Maybe it's 5 people in the same room all helping one person or maybe the person just passed his login information to a senior who took it the year before. There is a reason online colleges are not recognized by most recruiters or hiring reps.

  103. Deep packet inspection. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Set up a wifi network and force them to use your proxy server.

    Explain to the class that any and all encrypted communications will be construed as cheating and then use firewall policy to limit what services they can even use.

  104. Assignment Assessment Instead by ancienthart · · Score: 1

    As a High School Teacher, if you're going to open the Internet up to them, wouldn't short-term (1 or 2 week) assignments be easier? (Other than the marking of course.) It'd test the ability to problem solve and research more realistically, and you could use turnitin.com to ensure students aren't copying each other/the Internet.

    On another point, at the University I did both a pure Science degree, and then an Education degree (with credited subjects). What I found interesting was that the Science degree was taught in centuries-old formal format - lectures/labs/exam, but the Education degree was taught in small-class format/group projects/presentation assignments/etc. Only towards the end of my degree did one of my old science lecturers announce that he was taking some of the Education subjects as a way to upskill his teaching methods.

  105. Open book/no electronics by redfield · · Score: 1

    The tests I give are all 'open book', which I define as allowing any books, notes, documents or other aids (e.g. little model chromosomes for genetics problems) but no electronics. Unfortunately this means no e-texts.

  106. Monitoring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just tell them all screens are being recorded during the test.
    For bonus points actually do it or at least setup a bogus program that just looks like monitoring software and say they'll automatically fail if they end it.

  107. NCEES already did the work for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For engineering classes, allow or even encourage the use of the FE Exam formula book in 300 - 400 level courses. It'll have the vast majority of the formulas they need, and they'll get practice leafing through it for FE exam.

  108. Au contraire by zocky · · Score: 0

    In (mathematics) open-book exams I've taken, the books were essential. The highest scored solutions consisted of recognizing the problem, butchering equations for a few lines, and then pointing to the correct page in the correct book. The people who got highest grades were done in 15 minutes, though you were allowed to sit for at least 3 hours.

    But, of course, to do that, you had to actually understand what it was all about, and you certainly couldn't learn that in 3 hours with all the books in the world.

    --
    disclaimer: I might be right.
  109. use the K.I.S.S. approach by s0litaire · · Score: 2

    Their are 2 way you could go about this.

    1) Authoritarian route : State before the Exam starts that Key-logging and screen recording software has been installed on all machines, and no cell phones allowed.
    With an automatic fail if key-loggger or screen capture software is disabled or caught using a cell phone (with a supervised resit later the same day with an automatic 1/3 drop in maximum score.)

    2) Sneaky B'stard approach : Make the question so hard or badly worded that their is NO definitively correct answer, or that no 1 answer makes sense. Then it would be harder for "little Jimmy goggler" to find a correct answer on cheating sites, unless he's been taking notes and paying attention in class.

    Either approach probably won't work but it's my suggestion ^_^

    --
    Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  110. The purpose of the tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " I think traditional exams are not measuring the problem-solving skills of engineering students, because in normal job you can access the internet and literature when solving problems."

    No, they are measuring the problem solving skills of the students. During a test on, say, electrical engineering, we want to measure THOSE STUDENT's electrical engineering skills, not their ability to search wikipedia, google, etc., and certainly not their ability to talk to AIM or Skype with their friends who might know the answer.

    It is true that in a real job they may be allowed to use the Internet for some things, but they are expected to know their field and have core expertise without looking everything up - and the tests are designed to measure those things. In elementary school math class when you are learning addition and subtraction they don't let you use calculators, because they would give you the answers to the thing you are trying to measure. When you are studying higher math, they might let you use the calculators, because the test isn't so much about the numbers anymore. The fact that you will almost certainly have access to a calculator some day at work doesn't mean that they shouldn't require you know basic addition and subtraction.

    To give you a geek analogy: A computer has processor registers, processor cache, memory, maybe flash storage, and then finally a hard disk and perhaps network - all in order of decreasing speed. If the computer has something in memory, the access time might be a nano-second. If it has to go to the disk to fetch it, it might hake hundreds of times longer - Thus, we expect the most important data to be in memory, and hopefully in the processor cache. It's the same with people. We can't expect everyone to know everything about everything, but we expect them to have the core of what they need to do in their cache, so to speak. The exams are a type of test where we disconnect the test and run the program to see what it can retrieve from cache.

    If you want to make this some kind of practical test including research skills, just set up an internal wiki or something and give people access to that, but not the internet.

  111. When I was lecturing, a colleague came up with ... by Auroch · · Score: 1

    When I was lecturing, a much older (tenured) colleague came up with a series of multiple choice tests, and made the time limit very limiting - with the explanation that it was enough time to answer the questions if you knew the answers, but not enough time to look up the responses.

    They field tested it, made sure that the time limit was reasonable (and removed some questions that were just too tough for the 3rd year course) and made an exam bank that was 3x the size of the number of questions. The students got 2 attempts, and because the questions were randomized, it was fairly difficult for an individual student to get the same test twice.

    They found that students would print (to pdf) the questions and review them and pass them around, so they ALSO made the test/retest window quite small for the entire class. It was well received, used for several years with about a 30-40% question rotation/replacement every year, and scrapped when the professor left on an extended leave/sabbatical - no one else in the department felt it was a good use of their time to adapt their materials to the system - they all preferred to stick with standard university "test systems". What a joke. I've since adapted the system for myself and lost touch with the prof who set it up.

    --
    Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
  112. Here you go... by kiwimate · · Score: 1

    ...this answer. Or (D) let the students make up their own cards, like many posters are saying.

    From the sound of your question, you don't care about students having all the formulas, etc., which is good. Many (most?) of my exams have been some combination of these suggestions, or open book. I think my undergrad university might've had a generic physics equation sheet, because I tended to get sheets with equations that I didn't even recognize. At least one of my exams included several pages of common VAX assembly instructions.

    My more recent degrees have either had open book exams (those were the toughest) or "make your own notes". Usually restricted to how much you could bring into class.

    The toughest exam I've had in the last four years (I'm halfway into my second graduate degree right now) was open book, open notes, you could look up your notes on your computer, etc. I even think you were allowed to get onto the internet. But the questions required sufficient understanding of the processes that if I'd tried to answer it by searching online I'd have run out of time before I was halfway through.

  113. So what, who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's no different than one person doing their homework and letting their friends copy it.

    Hmm, that sounds just like one person uploading an MP3 and letting everyone else copy it. Which, as we all know, is hallowed here on /. So, who cares?

  114. One Real & Fairly Easy Solution to this Proble by SinisterRainbow · · Score: 1

    Anti-Cheat #1: If you are using university computers to do the exams, you can always use a key-logger/screen-logger - so you know exactly what information they search for. Though open information and privacy are huge concerns in every day life, try to find a way to explain the need of Internet privacy during an open Internet exam. You must of course, pre-warn them that if they access their own email or any site with passwords, that snapshots will be recorded, as will be their passwords, etc.

    Anti-Cheat Backup: This should go with #1, but used separately if #1 proves too difficult or if there is somehow a privacy issue even during an exam (oh, i just thought of one - my fingers slipped 104 times in a row and sent an email to a friend with the exact question i needed answering and got a response quickly was pure coincidence and I couldn't possibly not write down that answer since that was what I was going to write anyway!). Anyway, the back-up: don't install one, but SAY it's installed (be sure to go on about the name of the software, developed by X-high-tech-company-just-for-universities, what kind of new technology that has gone into them, how it's code is updated quarterly, and be sure to emphasize that every single keystroke makes a difference and can be used as official evidence for expulsion in the case of cheating).

    Ways to Cheat: Photo cryptography may go undetected in some situations, though it's difficult when you have a key-logger present in the case of two-way transmission. One way cryptography is possible, though also difficult (If the list of answers to all questions exist in photos somewhere good for them.) (two-way is not practical -> the student can't send without typing keys - unless he uses a Ceasar cipher or something that is relatively quickly broken. Any other cipher for that matter, though this is already a huge red-flag in the first place if they aren't typing an accepted language or are using obvious code wording (What does the Gangster mean daddy when he says "The duck is about to lose its feathers..."?) Another crack, if someone uses something like a wiretap (leaving a phone on or other device) so the listener can hear the question and post a page. student could write every question on the screen as well while another 'listener' is watching (which is relatively easy if there's a pre-agreed upon site or by listening in on the phone), post the site relatively hidden on another pre-agreed upon website after x-minutes - and do this in of a pre-agreed upon cipher (such as the first word of each sentence is the solution (or more obscure than this if they are hard-working enough)). I think that's a good start - and unless I'm missing something obvious, it is about as tough to cheat, if not tougher, than current exams (university computers are relatively secure, and no phones allowed during exams - oh i guess hidden phone may be another one, but that's general cheating related, not open Internet test). Someone may find another way, at which time that knowledge can be used to thwart future use of that method, or discontinue it's use if it's a devastating one.

    --
    -Ultimate Stickman Game Developer Infinite World Puzzler
  115. Put the answer on the internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put the answers out there on the internet. But, purposely muckup the applied theories on them as well as the answers in small ways that students would only know if they actually learned the material and even do the simple stuff like forgetting to carry the negative. The students who follow the cheat test will all end up with basically the same answers as the cheat test or pretty damn close to it and they will learn not to trust google. Then, you basically give them three options, 1. retake new test right now and whatever grade you get is where your grade is resetting to today(if its higher they have learned something, if its lower, not your problem), 2. drop all classes for the semester, 3. you report them for cheating and leaving school.

  116. Time the test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The biggest way to prevent cheating on open book tests where the internet is involved is to time the test. Keep track of usual sources of test answers. If you have a proxy system in place, use it to block the usual test data access spots. You can't get them all but you'll make it harder for it to happen.

  117. Not a problem really by Don+Philip · · Score: 1

    I was a secondary school teacher for many years. We used to allow open book tests. The students always found those to be the hardest. Many students wouldn't bother to study, since they could look up the answers. But looking up answers takes time, and exams are time-limited. I suspect that you will find exactly the same thing in your classes. Let them look up whatever they want, but structure the exam so that the questions are problems that require understanding of principles, not just recitation of facts, and you should be just fine.

  118. Re:highly paid accomplice by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Aah, the flaw of old style knowledge.

    Supposing there is no problem that can't be solved by some juicy resources.

    (Insert complicated test question.)
    (Correct but suspicious answer comes back.)

    "Congratulations! You have earned your B. S. in Business Management!"
    "But I am an Engineer!"
    "No, you clearly don't know the class material. But you have already set up a consulting business. Therefore I automatically forwarded your exam to the Business School!"

    Problem Solved : )

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  119. Video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps you could video-capture their screens and have your TA's review the footage?

  120. Not 100% foolproof, but... by decarillion · · Score: 1

    Respondus Lockdown Browser will 'lock' the student's screen so that s/he can't go anywhere else but that test page. It doesn't minimize, alt/tab, or allow any access to new tabs/windows etc. Of course, that pre-supposes that the student doesn't have a cell or some other device to find answers with, even if it's just to text ChaCha with LOL

  121. Engineering exams by danielpauldavis · · Score: 1

    You don't have them use the Internet. At all. You ensure your engineers are trained to be able to still use their knowledge when the Internet goes down.

    --
    Cranky educator.
  122. Monitor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, if they're taking the test on school computers would it be possible to monitor which sites they visit while taking the test? Like keep a log? You won't catch them before they cheat but you'll know that they cheated afterwards.

  123. How to monitor cheating over the Internet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately, you failed to expand upon what sort of cheating, but this solution should work for most.

    The same activity trackers used by companies and parents. Add a screen video capture. Add webcam capture of the student.

    A program to locate potential cheats in the set of files should be fairly easily written..

    If the program looks for cut & paste operations & duplicated text--as well as an SE scan to see if there is a match online, looking for email activity (make email chart & such automatic failures illegal.) In the case of suspected cheating you have a log of keystrokes & the screen, and the accused which can be synchronized as evidence,

    When introducing it, point out that it is a small number of cheats which cause the problem*, but by capturing this data those cheats can be caught, not graduate as completion in society. Such incompetents out in the world, not only reflects poorly on the school, but taints all future graduates.

    The problem is that while most of the students are trustworthy, there's no way short of monitoring to identify the bad eggs.

    Cellphone signals can be blocked &/or recorded fairly easily.

    *most of the time , there have been numerous cases where entire classes were cheating.

  124. Nearly There by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OP, You strike a very important note regarding the deficiencies of exam based assessment, at least within the scientific / mathematical disciplines. Yes, in the real world you can always look stuff up. I always considered the skill of finding a relevant piece of knowledge and putting it into practice in the field to be far more important than any amount of memorised formulae and example cases.

    Once outside the student world, there is no concept of "cheating" to improve your performance. We draw the line at falsely claiming something is your own work, enforced through copyright / patenting, but other than that you are free to use every tool / option at your disposal to achieve your aims.

    When trying to project the results of an experiment into a different environment you need to know under what conditions the experimental data remains valid. One pretty reasonable way of ensuring the validity when moving between the experiment locale and the target is to make the environmental conditions of the experiment as identical to the target's conditions as possible (eg. the surest way to know if a building you design will stay standing in an earthquake, is to build the entire thing and put it through a real earthquake, perhaps not quite as useful for construction as for education but you get the idea).

    So, why re-introduce any artificial restrictions for the purpose of assessment? If the assessment is then incapable of distinguishing between people in a useful sense then you need better assessment criterion, not better exam conditions.

  125. Intranet by ineedbettername · · Score: 1

    Set up or request a closed intranet. As in, no access to the outside internet. Perhaps have saved versions of the resources they might need. I know that digital versions of encyclopedias and textbooks do exist.

  126. How much is enough? by necro351 · · Score: 1

    What you are asking for is very difficult to provide, even if you had the perfect AI-based proxy server of every librarian's dreams: the person simply is honest and does not cheat or access prohibited content. I have taken take-home tests where I explicitly avoided looking up the solution, but the Internet is crafty, and I eventually ended up reading a variant of the problem description that subtly provided me with hints without my knowing. When I reflected on my thinking, I realized that it was severely effected by what I found on the Internet and that some of the leaps I should have made on my own were actually provided to me. Was I cheating? Perhaps, but not on purpose. The line between 'related' and 'solution' is very blurry, and even humans have a hard time distinguishing, let alone some automated arbiter or policy.

    --
    --"You are your own God"--
  127. Use social engineering, among other things by gr8dude · · Score: 1

    I teach at a university, my course is about network protocols and IT security. I prefer to trust my students rather than use punishment as a way to influence them. My attempts to eliminate cheating are quite effective, because the results of the exams are always within my expectations, i.e. a mediocre student never got an A out of the blue.

    Here's a review of my methods:
    - The final grade is derived mostly from the practical assignments they get throughout the semester. In this context I get to talk to each of them and spend a lot of time interacting with everyone in my group; this is how I know what they know.
    - The final grade is computed as 60% = practical assignments and 20+20% = midterm and final exam. This way, even if you cheat at the exam, it won't help you very much, unless you also worked hard during the _entire_ semester.

    - Formulate questions that don't take answers that can be copy/pasted from a book, the lecture notes or the Internet. Any question must require analysis. One who thought about it in the past will easily deal with it, one who has never been exposed to the ideas of the course won't be able to construct a good answer in a reasonable amount of time.
    - Give them more time than they need, to ensure that time is not a bottleneck of their performance.

    When I mentioned social engineering, I relied on research by Daniel Ariely. You can influence people's behaviour in multiple ways:
    - a written commitment not to cheat
    - give them a moral problem to think of, before giving them the exam itself
    - adjust the environment (in your case, tell them that all the Internet traffic is logged - so they know that they _can_ get caught)

    For example, I used these tasks in the previous semesters:
    - "write as many of the 10 commandments as you can remember" (taken "as is" from Ariely's experiment)
    - "actually, there were 11 commandments, but one of them was lost. Think about it and write down a rule which is worthy of being listed as the 11th commandment"
    - I once tried a written commitment too. Everyone who was in class signed it and smiled: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=469536753019&set=a.453850808019.243204.739418019&type=3&theater Three years after that exam, people are still talking about it and are proud to be a part of that experience.

    You may be interested in:
    - "Predictably irrational" and "The upside of irrationality" by Daniel Ariely
    - http://duke.edu/~dandan/Papers/BadApples.pdf - here's an example of a paper he wrote about cheating, there are other ones too.

    You must also make sure the students care about the course and want to learn, rather than just get a passing grade. Have a look at my notes of a book about this, "Punished by rewards" by Alfie Kohn: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150475760123020.375546.739418019&type=3&l=70e1f3712e

    I tried to ensure my assignments are not only useful, but also interesting and fun to play with. A basic requirement is to make sure some humour is always involved, with some references to Futurama or Monty Python or some sci-fi book or movie. Here are some examples:
    http://info.railean.net/index.php?title=Lab2_-_HTTP_crawler
    http://info.railean.net/index.php?title=Lab1_-_simple_client/server_application

    At the moment I'm in the process of devising a very short code of ethics (if it is long, no one reads it). You can read the draft: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=115bLhvMUisnw

  128. Capture all the packets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only thing that can bind a man is their own actions.

    So why try stopping them?

    Instead copy each and every packet. Then do forensics on the packets. Those who cheat run the risk of being caught.

    Either declre encryption to be verboden OR teach the valuable lesson that unless you have some control over the keys - you are subject to man in the middle and bust those people also.

  129. Wrong Question being asked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One should not be permitting the use of the internet and other common approaches to how someone who is experienced and working solves problems when dealing with students. The whole point of being a student is to learn the fundamentals to prepare them for solving actual problems found in the work place. It's not just a matter of potential cheating but rather, how do you tell if what you've found on the internet is accurate or correct or even applicable?

       

  130. Copyright the questions, then use SOPA/PIPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, if something like SOPA ever does pass, perhaps you could at least make it work to your advantage... just copyright your questions and when one of your students posts them on a web site somewhere, sue them and garnish their wages for the next bijillion years. Or at least tell them that's what you'll do and that you have friends in the MPAA. :-)