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Xbox 360 Game Patching Costs $40,000

hypnosec writes "It costs developers a total of $40,000 to release a single patch on Xbox Live, making it a difficult platform for smaller developers to grow on. This revelation was made by Tim Schafer of Double Fine Studios — which recently drew a lot of charitable donations as part of a campaign to create a contemporary point and click game. He went on to say that this is just too high a fee for smaller developers to pay, making it hard for them to do well on the platform. This makes sense, since requiring just one patch could massively cut into the profits for a company."

17 of 256 comments (clear)

  1. Get it right the first time by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Patches are not cheap to deploy, you've got to bother your customers and pay for bandwidth. It makes a whole lot more sense to put the effort into getting the right code onto the disc before it ships.

    1. Re:Get it right the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's odd, since they're pretty cheap to deploy on the PC.

    2. Re:Get it right the first time by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Patches are not cheap to deploy, you've got to bother your customers and pay for bandwidth. It makes a whole lot more sense to put the effort into getting the right code onto the disc before it ships.

      Epic first post. I was going to suggest that he not think of it as a "Patching Fee", he should instead consider it a "Don't fuck up" fee... It does sound exorbitant, but that's life in the big city.

    3. Re:Get it right the first time by wolrahnaes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In this case the patches also have to go through the console's usual certification process which obviously involves Microsoft or Sony employees spending time on it. Also remember that until the current generation of consoles, games were expected to work right out of the box and not need patching. Obviously that didn't always happen, as anyone who's used cheat devices like Gameshark can attest to some big sellers had many revisions over the years and games like Morrowind on Xbox had game-breaking bugs which required re-buying the "Game of the Year" edition to fix, but the idea is that console games should not be treated like PC titles where launch-day patches are almost expected.

      I'm not defending the exact numbers, $40,000 does seem rather high, but between actually charging for the certification work, CDN space, and bandwidth used plus adding a "try to get it right the first time" charge it might not be unreasonable.

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    4. Re:Get it right the first time by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hell, in this generation the consoles THEMSELVES are "ship now, patch later" bullshit... Xbox360, PS3, Wii, all of them constantly need "updates." And rarely do they ever improve functionality.

    5. Re:Get it right the first time by Moryath · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In case you think I'm joking... out of the last 10 disc games I bought for the Xbox360, 9 had a 0-day patch already sitting on Xbox Live. Out of the last 10 games I bought on Xbox Live, 7 of 10 had a patch the day I bought it. NONE of the games I currently own for the 360 has gone unpatched. Not one. And to top it off, their "interface updates" made half the dashboard themes pointless and unusable, since most of the visuals wind up hidden behind that stupid bottom-half "grey shadow" area.

      The Wii games aren't patchable (which got them into a bit of trouble when Metroid: Other M turned out to have a game-breaking bug) but how often have they pushed out console updates? And what have they done with them really? Except for the one that allowed for larger SD storage and the swap-trick to "play games" off of storage (really, just leaving internal storage blank and swapping the chosen item from SD into it on the fly), what have they actually patched? It doesn't seem they've done much of anything, certainly the interface never improved.

      And let's not even get started with the garbage updates on the PS3, that actually REMOVED features...

    6. Re:Get it right the first time by Sir_Sri · · Score: 4, Informative

      about 25% of 360's and PS3's don't have internet. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28058/Study_PS3_Has_Highest_Percentage_Of_Connected_Consoles.php

      But Xbox and PS3 still require updates to play new games, so you're getting system software via disks one way or another. Game updates, well, your game might just not work as well. But, a lot of the updates pushed are specifically about multiplayer or DLC anyway, and if you don't have internet you don't care about multiplayer or DLC.

      The big thing is that the console makers have testing guidelines you have to meet for your game, and design requirements (non interactive loading screens can only be so long that kind of thing). They force you to do a lot first, or you don't get to sell your game with them. With the PC if you run out of money release what you have, use the money you make to patch in fixes and start the next one. That's a sad commentary on the business but these things happen.

    7. Re:Get it right the first time by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Informative

      What about for games that are downloadable games in the first place... like, I don't know... EVERY SINGLE GAME ON XBOX LIVE ARCADE, WHICH IF YOU READ THE ARTICLE, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

      I'd like an apology from MS for all the updates I didn't get to Live Arcade games because Microsoft wants to charge the developer for the update, in addition to charging the gamer for the game (MS takes 30% off the top) and charging the gamer for the Live subscription (pure MS profit).

      Yes the massive data centers, the tens of thousands of servers, and the multitude of very fast internet backhauls were all discovered lying out back of the MS headquarters late one night; ever since then, it's been all profit! sigh. This is just one data point so for all we know, it was one figure quoted to an individual who had no particular bargaining skills and was interested in publishing a patch to a game with an install base of 50 million copies.

      You could say that the cost of the update should be baked into the cut that MS takes for distributing, but you can't really say that the expense is, or the cost should ever be, negligible.

    8. Re:Get it right the first time by Merk42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Minor inconvenience for him, slightly annoying to me, and an absolutely shitty thing to do to a kid who wants to play his legally-purchased game on his console but isn't fortunate enough to have a wifi connection to update.

      If a Wii game requires a certain version of software, it is on the disc of the game. So while it is true you need to update to play, it's not true that you need the Internet to do so.

    9. Re:Get it right the first time by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If only Microsoft had had the foresight to collect fees from the gamers using their Xbox 360 console. You might think of it as a subscription, even, and you might even give them silly names like Gold or Silver. They could use it to support the infrastructure, that way silly $40,000 fines on developers wouldn't exist. It'd be a stable source of income that could keep data centers up and running.

      Ah, if only they had thought to do it. I guess it makes sense why they resort to these sorts of fines instead.

    10. Re:Get it right the first time by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 4, Informative

      You know what's more expensive? Losing customers. I'm on a rural connection where it takes around 24 hours to download 1Gb, so after requiring a ~3Gb download on Battlefield 3 I'm not going to risk buying anything from EA again. The game was so broken on release it required a "patch" of 60% of the game disc? No thanks, I'm not going to bother in the future. If it's not right, don't release it. To top it all you had to download extended content even if you weren't going to pay to activate it. Nonsense all round.

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    11. Re:Get it right the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They're going to have to find out one way or another. Don't let their first rape be a surprise

  2. That's the point by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft has said that they don't want their reputation as a retailer ruined by games requiring numerous patches that not all users can get. They say they consider it a fine on premature releases. It's also to "encourage" dlc to be charged for through their store system, so they can get a cut. If you release the content through a patch then use some sort of exterior store to unlock it, MS doesn't get a piece of the action. Part of the idea is good: companies pay for the "deliver first, make it work later" attitude that has been a little to prevalent. Part of it is money grubbing. I'm pretty neutral on the concept.

  3. If only... by Megaweapon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft would pay small rebates for every patch for Windows they released...

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  4. Re:Why? by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Its because Microsoft has to take time to certify every patch put out on Live, just like they certify every game software put out for the 360. That said, Microsoft is a business, and is trying to make money from their licencing agreements. Consoles cost tons and tons of money to design, and then you actually sell them ON A LOSS. You have to make up all those millions purely through licences with developers, one way or another.

    That said, they're shooting themselves in the foot making it hard for people to develop for their platform. Indie developers need access. And the whole expensive and drawn out certification process means that PC gamers get patches for games weeks or even MONTHS before console gamers see them, even if they're for the same game. Its not that they do PC first, they do both simultaneously (or console first) but PC goes out as soon as PC is ready.

    If they embraced the 360 as more of a general purpose computer that can do gaming well for cheap, then they could skip the certification process and be more like PC. But right now they're shooting for a perfect, controlled console environment.

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  5. Quality Control by adisakp · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work in the video game industry but this opinion is only my own. I personally don't think the costs are unreasonable.

    Microsoft has a pretty stringent testing requirement for patches. It's not as simple as slapping up a new binary to download. It costs them money to test patches against technical requirements. There is bandwidth involved for downloading patches as well. The developers have to pay for the bandwidth and testing costs. Charging for patches also discourages sloppy software with lots of patching after the fact. Not all XBOX 360's even have hard drives so patches have to be relatively minor and fit on memory cards if necessary.

  6. Re:Why? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 4, Informative

    That said, they're shooting themselves in the foot making it hard for people to develop for their platform. Indie developers need access.

    That's exactly what Xbox Live Indie Games is for. Now this has its own associated problems, but it's not as expensive to develop for due to a less stringent review process.