Ask Slashdot: Life After Software Development?

An anonymous reader writes "I've been writing database apps for various industries as the senior developer or tech lead on a given project for most of the past 20 years. The last few years have become particularly taxing as I struggle to reiterate basic concepts to the same technically illiterate managers and stakeholders who keep turning up in charge. While most are knowledgeable about the industries our software is targeting, they just don't get the mechanics of what we do and never will. After so many years, I'm tired of repeating myself. I need a break. I need to walk away from it, and want to look at doing something that doesn't focus heavily on the IT industry day in, day out. Unfortunately, I'm locked to a regional city and I've just spent the majority of my adult life coding, with no other major skills to fall back on. While I'm not keen on remaining in front of a screen, I wouldn't be averse to becoming a tech user and consumer, rather than a creator. Are there similar Slashdotters out there who have made the leap of faith away from tech jobs and into something different? If so, where did you end up? Is there a life after IT for people who are geeks at heart? Apart from staying in my current job, is there any advice for someone who can't really risk the mortgage and kid's education on a whim?"

Comments

Nope.

[CanHasDIY]

You pretty much shot yourself in the foot when you said

Apart from staying in my current job, is there any advice for someone who can't really risk the mortgage and kid's education on a whim?

"On a whim" is exactly what you're talking about doing: leaving what I assume to be a well-paying job, with absolutely zero skills outside your current position, to find something new (which, incidentally, is a process you're obviously sufficiently clueless about to be unable to figure out for yourself).

My advice? Do the responsible thing and stick it out until retirement or mortgage/kiddo's schooling is paid off, then take your walkabout.

Re:Nope.

[Necron69]

I have to agree. I've seen too many people quit jobs 'on a whim' and screw up their lives (and their family's) permanently.

All jobs suck at one level or another. Grow up, suck it up, and keep working. You need to learn to work to live, not live to work.

Necron69

Re:Nope.

[mosb1000]

What kind of advice is that?

You'd be surprised how little it costs to get by. And if you're married, you can divide the labor between you two.

The thing is that what he want's it to be his own boss, or something like that. There are always incompetent managers, so you can't escape it just by changing jobs. But you can choose who you do business with.

It's a choice. Either you want the house in the suburbs with the stable income, and the shitty job that goes with it, or you don't.

Re:Nope.

[Grishnakh]

My advice: move to another place. Moving to someplace new can be like a breath of fresh air and a real change in pace in life, plus it'll give you a whole new pool of employers to choose from. I gathered from the question that the submitter doesn't have a lot of choice for employers, and that's likely because he's in an area with few potential employers for his skillset; the only way to change that is to move.

He says he's "locked into a regional city", but I think that's BS. No one is really "locked into" anyplace, unless they choose to be. Tell your spouse to suck it up and find a new job in the new area, tell the useless extended family members you're moving and they're welcome to follow you if they want. I've seen way too many examples of people who've gotten screwed over in life because they refused to move from some particular area, usually for some stupid reason like "my family all lives here!". If the family wants you to stay, then the family needs to cough up a bunch of money so you don't have to work any more. Otherwise, they need to shut their faces when you go looking for better opportunities elsewhere.

Re:Nope.

[joebok]

Wow - how can such a shallow thoughtless answer be modded "insightful"?

If the question was "I've just quit my job coding 'cause I can't stand it any more, how can I feed my family?" - yes, that is "on a whim" and I agree, not a good way to proceed. This person is examining his life and looking for other options. That is not whimsical. He's asking for experiences of like-minded people, hoping to find inspiration. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. As Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living.

I completely identify with the question, and have been having thoughts on the same lines. My conclusions so far is that I still actually do like coding, I just don't like coding (or doing anything) for the pointy haired bosses who are not in charge where I have been working for 18 years. So I'm trying to retrain myself a bit, see if I can cash in on iOS apps or something like that. It is interesting for me to learn new things, and exercising creativity to ends of my own choosing is very refreshing. Even if I never made a dime from an app, changing my attitude and finding a creative outlet makes life tons better. I endure the idiots at work, bring home the paycheck to feed the fam, AND I'm in a better state of mind so the time I spend at home is quality time. Maybe that will be enough, maybe I will want to make a change in the future.

It is a 100% valid question and the answer is most definitely not "nope". A good programmer is a good problem solver - the problem of living a satisfying life of joy is worth solving.

Re:Nope.

[mosb1000]

That's silly. You don't want the house so stop paying your mortgage. Then go find an apartment, or move in with you parents. There are a surprising number of options if you can get out of the mindset that you have to own a house and you have to have good credit and you have to do whatever it is you think you have to do.

And most people have no idea what it really takes to raise kids well. I'll tell you one thing it doesn't require, a whole lot of money. And another thing you don't need to do it is a house.

Re:Nope.

[Beardo the Bearded]

Exactly. Work is what I do to pay for the things I like to do. I can afford nice things.

My brother's a jazz musician. He loves it, but he doesn't make much money and he STILL HAS SHIT TO DEAL WITH. All jobs have shit to deal with. Find one you like that pays well. At work play the part.

Re:Nope.

[Golddess]

You don't want the house so stop paying your mortgage. Then go find an apartment

Won't that kind of hurt your chances of actually getting said apartment? Nevermind what kind of an example that sets for your kids.

or move in with you parents

Are most parents really that cool about their adult child, spouse, and grandkids all moving in with them, especially if said child just didn't feel like paying their mortgage?

Re:Nope.

[CanHasDIY]

Living in California is not a good one if you want to have any money left after taxes.

FTFY.

There are places where you can rent a 2 bedroom apartment for 500 a month.

Hell, in a lot of the Midwest you can rent a nice 2 bedroom house for that.


Less pollution and traffic, too :D

Re:Nope.

[Lije Baley]

You are correct, but you apparently have no experience in a typical marriage with typical women and children. If you want to live the simple life, you can, but you have to find a wife who also wants to live that way, and raise your children up in that environment from the start.

Re:Nope.

[mosb1000]

I've never been attracted to the kind of woman who want's a fancy house and an expensive car. I'm actually really surprised anyone would be.

Re:Nope.

[Lije Baley]

Ha ha ha, you won't know what she really wants until the day after you say "I do".

Re:Nope.

[mosb1000]

I'm not saying to be reckless, but I wish people wouldn't be paralyzed by fear either.

I hate it when people say "you can never be too careful." In reality, you can be and you probably are.

It's a fact that you don't need to own a house to raise a family. You also don't need to spend a whole lot of money to send you kid to college (realistically, you shouldn't send them to college right after high school anyway). If you have friends and family who are happy to take you in (and only if that's the case) it is OK to rely on them to help you through a transitional period in your life. And if you have kids, it's actually setting a great example for them because it teaches them not to fear change, how to share a living space, that there is more than one way to live, and that it's OK to ask for help when they need it.

All I'm saying is this: it's OK to be open minded about changing your living situation and "lowering" your "standard of living." A lot of people don't know that because they haven't really seen how other people in other living situations make it work.

To me the idea that you should just stick it out in a job you hate, when you want to change, is hopelessly depressing. That is exactly the opposite of what you should do. And what kind of example are you setting for your kids? You are basically teaching them they they should accept what they are given and never strive for anything better or know anything different. Is that really what you want for them?

Game Developement

[stackdump]

Try a different kind of development? - maybe Game Development? You man still deal with the same issues - but at least it's more light-hearted and the business rules of the app are still arbitrary but more fun.

Re:Game Developement

[Anonymous Coward]

>Game Development

Infinitely worse. The only people who think game development is "light hearted" and "fun" are ignorant people who know diddly-squat about the games industry.

Re:Game Developement

[Surt]

Game development may sound fun, but as people who have actually done it for a living are going to point out, this is not the job for someone who has a mortgage or a family as a consideration. It doesn't pay well, it demands long hours, and the risk of losing your job is through the roof compared to basically anywhere else in the computer industry.

Find your passion

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been struggling with the same problem myself. Any change is undoubtedly going to come with a decrease in pretty big income at least at first. There aren't that many jobs that pay as well as a programmer that you can just jump right in to. I recommend you find something you still have some passion about first. Ideas that have come across my mind are writing some books and opening a coffee shop. I've made minor progress towards both and realize its not going to be a change that just happens over night. Its going to take a lot of work for me to change my work but if I don't do anything about it now I'll end up stuck here forever. I like coffee and I like hanging out at coffee shops. Why not make coffee for a living? I like writing so I'm working on writing a book in my spare time to see how it turns out. Ultimately, if you aren't interested in what you're doing regardless of what it is you're going to find yourself in the same situation you're in now so find something you like doing and figure out a way to start a business around it. As a programmer, just think of it as yet another problem to solve and you'll figure your way out of the cage.

You can try to take your boss's position....

[Fallen Kell]

If you have been with that company for a long time, you might be able to take the position your boss has (well maybe not his exact position, but similar within the company). Being that you are tired of explaining things over and over to your revolving bosses, you could probably become one, and then you would no longer need to explain it anymore to him (though that doesn't mean you wouldn't need to explain it to the boss's boss... but usually at that level you start getting more into the "this is the problem, this is my solution, it will cost X amount of developer hours/$$$ and provides XYZ benefits").

Re:Put it on your resume cover letter

[frisket]

Unfortunately, most VCs are just as technologically clueless as the management. Plus they don't want seasoned developers with years of experience and the skills to know what to do (and the balls to do it), they want kids who'll work for stock options instead of cash.

Start a company?

[laffer1]

If you're tired of listening to idiots, why not start a company. Then you're in charge. There are many downsides to this but it solves your immediate problem.

You could also get into mobile app development. That can be done as a solo gig.

Translation:

[sirwired]

Dear Slashdot,

I've spent my entire life doing one thing. I have no marketable skills except doing that one thing. I like doing that one thing, and that alone. I hate my job because it also involves doing something other than that one thing.

I want to stop doing that one thing, or anything related to it, but still make the same safe, secure, decent amount of money doing something else. But I have no idea what that something else is, and I don't want to take any risks finding out.

What do I do?

Answer:
You're fucked.

Seriously, open your horizons some (management or technical sales is where many geeks go when they reach this point), or be willing to take risks. But the magical safe, secure, job you are looking for does not exist.

Risk

[DogDude]

I used to be an IT guy. Went from phone jockey to DB developer over about 8 years. After seeing what happens to people who are in IT for a long time, decided that I didn't want to turn into one of those people, so I dropped out, and started my own business. But with it came a tremendous amount of risk. I'm glad I did it, but with the qualifier, "is there any advice for someone who can't really risk the mortgage and kid's education on a whim?", I've gotta say that you probably should just stay put. Any career change is going to come along with a significant amount of risk.

Or, you could do what I did, and radically change your lifestyle, reducing your risk. If you're willing to give up the trappings of the typical consumerist lifestyle, you can get by on significantly less than most people in the US think they need to live comfortably. Get rid of the mortgage, fancy cars, overpriced gadgets and new clothes. Learn to be happy living with much less, and suddenly, the possibilities expand greatly. Of course, most people don't do it, but if you do do it, then you can really do whatever you'd like to do, and not worry about "risking" your lifestyle, since you would have already thrown that out the window.

Debt serfs don't get to walk away.

[Colin Smith]

Apart from staying in my current job, is there any advice for someone who can't really risk the mortgage and kid's education on a whim?"

There's a reason the monetary system is debt based. You just found it.

 

Re:Write or teach.

[SerpentMage]

Ok I have been for the past 7 years in this situation... I was pushed into this situation after the dot.com bubble burst. Up to the dot com bubble burst I was doing Internet Server Consulting. What this meant is that I helped corporations push out Internet based Application Servers using .NET or Java technologies. It was a great gig until the bubble burst. Then I switched into Open Source, but realized very very quickly the monies are not the same. I am not slagging Open Source since I essentially use it now exclusively.

But for the past 7 years I have been investing in the market and yes I have been making money (even through the two crisis). And in about 2 years my wife and I are going to retire to open a restaurant as we need to do something (we are are in our early forties).

1) Make sure you have money socked away... Don't do this with no monies as you will fail and be miserable at the same time.

2) Do something you love. For me it is cooking and counting money. By counting money I mean financial engineering. Both are natural and easy for me even though my degree says mechnical engineering.

3) Create a niche for yourself. Since you are not in the field from young on nobody will care about you. Thus create a niche for yourself. So say you want to be a trucker. Well drive those stretches that nobody else wants to, for whatever reason it is. It is important to stress you need to love this new field because you are going to get the shit jobs and thus you better be smiling while doing those jobs.

4) Be happy! Seriously if you are going to step into this new field you better be happy about it. If you are going to complain and think about all of the money, or gizmos that you could have bought before you are doing yourself a disservice. You need to enjoy every effen moment because otherwise you will fail. I am not talking about, "oh this will get better" type of chatter. I am talking, "you know I really like eating this shit every day because it is something I have always wanted to do." Again I stress the you better love the field because you will get shit fed to you for at least two to three years...

Re:Pursue your passion

[DogDude]

What do you do for passion? Whatever you do, be excellent at it and money will follow.

I'm sorry, but that's a really, truly terrible idea. There are many, many "passions" that will never make any money. And just because you are doing your "passion" doesn't necessarily mean that money will follow.

Re:Write or teach.

[Anonymous Coward]

.........or, instead of making cheap shots, acknowledge the fact that he can offer something extremely useful to students, i.e. experience.

Yes, go and teach. Very rewarding.

(He says after 25 year of programming and 15 of teaching)

Re:Write or teach.

[houghi]

And in about 2 years my wife and I are going to retire to open a restaurant as we need to do something

You use that word 'retire' but I don';t think it means what you think it means.
Seriosuly, re-think what you want to do:
1) Run a restaurant which means working 24 hours a day and if need be at night as well. That is if you want to make money and not loose it. Money can go fast in the restaurant business.
2) Retire

Running a restaurant is not the same as cooking.

I hear many people say that they would love to buy a pub, a restaurant or a small hotel. It sounds so nice, because all that they see is the time they spend as a guest. They do not see the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. The fact that you have no social life, because you work all the time.

yes, do something you like, but understand that running a business is not the same as retiring. Not by a long shot.

If cooking is your passion, why not do catering? You can decide when and how much work you take and you won't be making the same kind of food day in day out. You could decide to have only Friday and Saturday parties. That would mean you will be doing your prep on Thursday, parties on Friday and Saturday and finish on Sunday. Once you have that rolling, you will still have plenty of time to be retired while still being able to do what you like.