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FOIA Request Shows Which Printer Companies Cooperated With US Government

Posted by timothy on from the stick-with-handwriting dept.

New submitter Dave_Minsky writes "The U.S. Secret Service responded to a FOIA request on Monday that reveals the names of the printer companies that cooperate with the government to identify and track potential counterfeiters. The Electronic Frontier Foundation revealed in 2005 that the U.S. Secret Service was in cahoots with selected laser printer companies to identify and track printer paper using tiny microscopic dots encoded into the paper. The tiny, yellow dots — less than a millimeter each — are printed in a pattern over each page and are only viewable with a blue light, a magnifying glass or a microscope. The pattern of dots is encodes identifiable information including printer model, and time and location where the document was printed." Easy enough to avoid government dots; just don't buy printers from Canon, Brother, Casio, HP, Konica, Minolta, Mita, Ricoh, Sharp, or Xerox.

31 of 355 comments (clear)

  1. lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who would want to counterfeit american money? If you're gonna stick your neck out at least counterfeit something of value

    1. Re:lol by element-o.p. · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I haven't seen any actual reports on inflation, but I have been paying attention to prices, and I'd say it's definitely happening. Just a few examples, off the top of my head: I got my pilot's license in 1991 -- the same Cessna 152 I learned to fly in at $36 per hour now costs $120 per hour to rent; around that same time, I used to fill up my car for ~$1/gallon but it's $3.50 per gallon now; I'm into archery, and the arrows I used to buy for $4 each now cost more like $10 each; and houses in my city have gone from ~$150K to ~$300K. That's 200-300% inflation in 20 years. I know, I know, "anecdote, data, etc." but just about the only thing I can think of where prices have decreased is technology -- computers, hard drives, network gear, cell phones, etc.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    2. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's the difference?

    3. Re:lol by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      China has their currency pegged to ours (other countries too, but China is the one that matters).

      That means we sort of share a monetary policy. We print money, it causes inflation in China as they are forced to also print money to maintain the peg.

      If China lets their currency float then we see the pent up inflation hit us as all their products double in price (and their bank reserves of US bonds halve in value). Shock to both economies. Double plus ungood.

      But the peg needs to move faster. Eventual float.

      My only question: Where is the arbitrage opportunity?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:lol by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Informative

      That "dirt cheap" food is much shittier than it was 20+ years ago. On top of that, portion sizes have shrunk: take a look at various canned foods, and compare them with cans from 20 years ago; the volumes have shrunk slightly to offset the inflation.

      Clothing is only cheaper because they've moved all the production to southeast Asia, and of course tech products are cheaper for two reasons: 1) they're all made in China now, and 2) newer technological processes are cheaper and more efficient than the old ones. Also 3) volumes are likely higher for many tech items, and greater volumes means greater economies of scale; not as many people had PCs or laptop 20 years ago.

      With furniture, you have to be careful because there's a lot of shitty cardboard furniture out there (no shit, it's just paper fibers pressed together with a fake wood-grain laminate glued on top); for a valid comparison, you need to look at the prices of solid wood high-quality furniture (something like Thomasville), from both then and now. Even that's a little suspect because on a lot of the factory furniture, they're using more veneers on even the hardwood furniture: instead of solid cherry, they make it out of a cheap hardwood like birch and use cherry veneers. Still far better than cardboard shit, but it's not the same as non-veneered furniture as veneers can come off, plus if you ever want to refinish the piece, there's only so much you can do with a veneer, whereas with solid wood you can sand through even deep scratches and refinish without damaging it.

      Bottom line: be very careful in how you make comparisons in the prices of items.

  2. What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 5, Informative

    Firstly, what's the big deal with the document having these microdots? They identify the machine by serial number, and the time (assuming the machine's clock is set correctly - in my experience, many aren't). The "location" isn't really identified since these devices have no way of knowing their location, so what's being described here isn't actually possible.

    If you're going to be printing stuff you don't want identified, don't use one of these machines, sure. But for day to day normal printing, it's not exactly going to affect you.

    I'm aware this argument sounds a lot like "if you've got nothing to hide, you don't need security" or whatever, but really it's not. If you DO want to hide that the job was printed on your device, change the serial number (on most devices, this just requires knowing how to get to the "Service Mode" of the machine - which, while no company will tell you how, is trivially easy to find on Google).

    It's not like we actively keep it a secret that our machines do this.

    And just as a minor nitpick: "Konica" and "Minolta" haven't been two separate companies in a long time. (Full disclosure: I work for Konica Minolta)

    --
    My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
    Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    1. Re:What's the problem? by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is government cooperation, this automatically raises a flag - this company will not have a problem cooperating with the government.

      So, what do these companies have to hide? What are they getting from government that they agreed to do this?

      --
      You can't handle the truth.
    2. Re:What's the problem? by bWareiWare.co.uk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The are LOTS of flaws in your agument. Prehaps the easiest to explain is what happens if the is a revolution in your country and previous 'free-expression' suddenly lands you in jail?

       

    3. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Problem 1: It was *not* pointed out to the customers that this was happening, it was only revealed by the EFF and then not denied. It would've been ridiculous to deny it.
      Problem 2: Still if I buy such a printer it is neither stated on the packaging nor in the manuel that the printer prints this information. This is not what I would call a transparent process.
      Problem 3: If I send a job to a printer I expect the printer to print my job, not anything else!
      Problem 4: Printing these dots consumes my ink.
      Problem 5: There is no possibility to turn this "feature" off. Why? Who is your customer?

      Next thing you tell us that this is a feature to improve customer satisfaction.

    4. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's trivial to geolocate with IP and most printers are networked these days.

      True, but most aren't given public IP addresses (any many aren't even given access out the firewall to try and figure out the public address)

      Changing the serial doesn't mean the "real" burned in one isn't printed as well.

      Note the bit where I said I work for Konica Minolta... I know what I'm talking about here. The serial number written in the microdots is ABSOLUTELY the one that is programmed in electronically by the service-person and NOT some kind of hard-coded value.

      Seriously, what benefit is there to the consumer for this behaviour? None.

      You'll get no argument from me there. I never said I was in favour of these microdots, just that they're REALLY ineffective and therefore you can generally happily ignore the attempted invasion of privacy and it's no big deal.

      Stop being an apologist for your employer.

      My employer (right up to senior management at our parent company) knows when I agree with them and when I disagree. I'm secure enough in my position there that I know I don't need to kiss arse to keep my job.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    5. Re:What's the problem? by chichilalescu · · Score: 5, Informative

      you know, my aunt had a typing machine. in Romania, before the fall of communism. and everybody remembers that, in those days, you had to give the "fingerprint" of any typing machine to the authorities.
      as you might know, there are these tiny problems with each letter, and they can be traced back to the machine. so, in practice, the authorities could find out if a paper had been typed by your machine or not.
      in my experience, if you want a warranty for your printer, the store will need the serial number of your device. and if you pay with a credit card, they can link your contact information to the device. and if you try to google the way to change the serial number, you probably end up an watchlist of some sort.
      personally, I don't know if it's a good situation when it's impossible to be anonymous. but I am certain they should tell you about it when it does happen.
      your argument is that it doesn't affect normal users, and that you don't actively keep it a secret. well, you do keep it a secret, because a FOIA request had to be made to find it out. and it doesn't matter if it affects normal users or not, as long as they don't know.

      --
      new sig
    6. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh? Did you buy that printer with a credit card? Video surveilence at time of purchase could be useful if not....

      There are plenty of methods of tracking a purchased item to a person. The convincing argument for me is this - The reason given for doing this was to stop counterfits. However printing quality out of those printers is no where near enough to fool idiots down the street. What other reason is there then, other that to track the local people?

    7. Re:What's the problem? by Megane · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

      They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    8. Re:What's the problem? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Informative

      They could do that anyway, every laser and inkjet printer has a unique signature in the way it prints, with the spacing of dots, dirt and unintended marks left on the paper - it's an inherent part of the character of each printer, but needs skill and time to interpret.

      I recall watching a UK police documentary about fraud over a decade ago, where they IDed the exact printer some fraudulent documents were printed on, proving their suspect was linked to the case. The evidence stood up in court too.

    9. Re:What's the problem? by Requiem18th · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The argument of their actual danger has ben explained to you already but I'll try again. The problems are availability, plausible deniability and finally, "red flaging" (I don't know the proper term, my apologies).

      It's the same argument for total encryption, if you encrypt only sensitive information you are making it very easy for an attacker to know what to look for. If the only encrypted files in your laptop are your credit card numbers and password stores, Again if the only email you encrypt is the most highly sensitive ones, and industrial spy who gains access to your email knows exactly where to look for trade secrets.

      This means that if you ever have a good reason to print something you don't want traced back to you, you'll have to get access to an special printer. Cracking down on religious or political dissidents, whistleblowers and "unconfortable" citizens becomes a matter of tracking down who has access to these special printers. That's the red flag.

      Sooner than later just having such a printer becomes proof of any crime, such as encrypting your harddrive and refusing to hand over the key is considered evidence of the crime by some authorities. If you want to have access to these printers when you need them you need to use them when you don't need them. That's your plausible deniability.

      And if they simply become ilegal, there is no availability.

      Let's drop the topic of revolutions and use a theme closer to home, whisthleblowing. So you are a lowly clerk in an oil company and happend uppon records proving corruption involving high profile politicians. So you take the files in a USB, print them at home and send them anonymously to an activist group.

      If your mail get's intercepted, you are fucked. If your employer's lawyers get them, you are fucked. If the police happens to "lose" them. You are fucked. Because thanks to cooperation between corporations and the state it's easy to trace you. The yellow dots link your copy to your printer, to the store and to your credit card number. And for all we know there is already a database out there that just links yellow dots to names and it only takes a few calls to know who leaked the incriminating data.

      And once they know you may as well move yourself to perpetual-unemployment-ville.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    10. Re:What's the problem? by gaspyy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, parent is correct. We were required by law to register any typewriter with the police. Failure to comply was a major offense, with prison time and if you were flagged as threat to the system you could end up in a forced labor camp (e.g. the infamous "Danube-Black Sea Canal"). Nasty memories and it's incredible how people don't learn from history.

    11. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And for all we know there is already a database out there that just links yellow dots to names and it only takes a few calls to know who leaked the incriminating data.

      If there was, the following conversation would not have taken place:

      • My phone rings...
      • Me: Hello, Yttrium Oxide* speaking (not my real name)
      • Person: Hi, this is Joe Bloggs* from Government Security Agency* (not real name or agency)
      • Person: Are you the person to talk to about determining who a device was sent to by its microdot pattern?
      • Me: Hmmm, sorry, not my area. You seem to have been transferred to the wrong department. I'll transfer you to the right person.

      That's only happened once, around 6 or 7 years ago. Same current employer, different country. It may be that such a database exists in the US for example, but I've never worked there so couldn't say. It definitely doesn't exist in Australia where I used to work otherwise they wouldn't have called asking that question.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    12. Re:What's the problem? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Me: Hello, Yttrium Oxide* speaking (not my real name)

      So you're not related to the Connecticut Oxides? When I was in college, I dated Strontium. I've had a nasty rash ever since.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    13. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is government cooperation, this automatically raises a flag - this company will not have a problem cooperating with the government.

      You make it sound like they had a choice.

      "Nice company you got here. Be a shame if we had to audit your records for the past twenty years. You're not on the terrorists' side, are you?"

    14. Re:What's the problem? by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

      They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

      Paranoid much? Seriously, they've been doing that with handwriting and typewriters since, roughly forever. Then there's any fingerprints or DNA you might leave on the paper to consider too. And your license plate number when they surveil the parking lot of the post office where the documents were mailed from. And checking your hard drive for the digital files, and your trash for draft copies, and your email for related writings, and your bookcase/ereader for related reading. Doing textual analysis on emails and other postings on the internet... Etc... etc...
       
      Consider that the Unabomber was caught because his brother recognized his writing style. The Lindbergh kidnapper by comparing handwriting. Albert Fish because he used a unique paper... (Huh, Wikipedia to the rescue again - they have an entire article on this, found while researching cases.)
       
      Seriously, acting like this represents some unique threat or certain nail in your coffin where there is no other is simply ludicrous.

    15. Re:What's the problem? by drussell · · Score: 5, Informative

      Problem 4: Printing these dots consumes my ink.

      Yes, and it uses a LOT of it! Older HP color lasers would print a B&W page without using the color toner cartridges at all, no wasted toner on a B&W page... Many of the newer ones I've seen always use a color pass for B&W, making color toner cartridges run out quite quickly when printing B&W even though it shouldn't even have to pull color toner onto the drum. And yes, the yellow always runs out first (even though it's only used a little bit more than the base "waste toner" that is used on each pass of a cartridge). (I have a couple LaserJet 2840s and this is VERY obvious; we get about 10% of rated color toner cart life due to high B&W use).

      I'm sure HP loves it, it's another way to sell even more quantity of their overpriced inks and toners. This "feature" costs us about $500/year per printer in extra toner use! (About an extra cyan and magenta each year -- yellow about every 9 mo.)

      I can even see the pattern naked-eye, at least on the 96 bright paper we use... It's always been VERY annoying. Otherwise, fairly nice printers, but they eat supplies and I've known exactly why since day 1.

    16. Re:What's the problem? by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hes fucking right. The lassez-faire attitude about this on slashdot is pretty disgusting. This level of collusion between the govt and business to stop counterfeiting (which is not worth spying on every printer) is an abomination and lays the groundwork for much worse. Im sorry you dont have the imagination to see the end game to this.

      --
      Good-bye
  3. Yay! I have a Lexmark! by erroneus · · Score: 5, Informative

    Great to know my printer maker isn't on the list.

  4. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by datapharmer · · Score: 5, Funny

    No worries, lexmark print quality is so horrid and their printers so unreliable who in their right mind would actually try to counterfeit anything using one?

    --
    Get a web developer
  5. Re:So this is why my ink runs out so fast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or more exaclty why my printer refuse to print black and white pages because the yellow cartridge is empty.

  6. Certainly not microscopic by kccricket · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've worked rather extensively with a Xerox DocuColor 252 over the last four years. Those yellow dots are anything but microscopic. I could plainly see the dots on most printouts under standard office-style fluorescent lighting. They always bugged the crap out of me.

    --
    * chirp * chirp *
    1. Re:Certainly not microscopic by chrb · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/ has some magnified images. At 10x zoom I would guess the diameter is about 1mm, so maybe 0.1mm for the original dots...

  7. Defective by design by fibonacci8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This probably helps explain why so many customers have brought printers to me complaining of the defect where B&W print jobs do not print when the color cartidge gets low.

    --
    Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
  8. Re:um... by zill · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's a partial list:

    lexmark
    Kodak
    TVS Electronics
    WeP
    PENTAX
    Planon
    prolink
    Olivetti
    Epson
    Lenovo
    OKI
    Panasonic
    Dell
    Samsung
    Kyocera

    Someone already made the bad printing quality joke so I won't bore you with it again.

  9. against the law (shakes fist) by KingAlanI · · Score: 4, Informative

    There's a US law that forbids melting down pennies and nickels, or exporting them in large quantities.
    (The penny was changed to copper-plated zinc in mid-1982; 95% copper pennies from before then are also worth above their face value in metal.)

    USC Title 31 Section 5111 subsection D (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5111) gives the Secretary of the Treasury the option, http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&ID=724 is about that option being used.

    PS
    Many silver coins are just worth their metal value, and those are often melted down.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  10. I read your link, I'd point out a mistake by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Informative

    .. it was the right house
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiyana_Stanley_Jones

    not saying there weren't multiple fuckups on the parts of law enforcement,
      (there most assuredly were from what I read)
        but there is a small sliver of 'reap what ya sow' in all that went on there, father included.......

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random