FOIA Request Shows Which Printer Companies Cooperated With US Government

New submitter Dave_Minsky writes "The U.S. Secret Service responded to a FOIA request on Monday that reveals the names of the printer companies that cooperate with the government to identify and track potential counterfeiters. The Electronic Frontier Foundation revealed in 2005 that the U.S. Secret Service was in cahoots with selected laser printer companies to identify and track printer paper using tiny microscopic dots encoded into the paper. The tiny, yellow dots — less than a millimeter each — are printed in a pattern over each page and are only viewable with a blue light, a magnifying glass or a microscope. The pattern of dots is encodes identifiable information including printer model, and time and location where the document was printed." Easy enough to avoid government dots; just don't buy printers from Canon, Brother, Casio, HP, Konica, Minolta, Mita, Ricoh, Sharp, or Xerox.

Comments

lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Who would want to counterfeit american money? If you're gonna stick your neck out at least counterfeit something of value

Re:lol

[element-o.p.]

I haven't seen any actual reports on inflation, but I have been paying attention to prices, and I'd say it's definitely happening. Just a few examples, off the top of my head: I got my pilot's license in 1991 -- the same Cessna 152 I learned to fly in at $36 per hour now costs $120 per hour to rent; around that same time, I used to fill up my car for ~$1/gallon but it's $3.50 per gallon now; I'm into archery, and the arrows I used to buy for $4 each now cost more like $10 each; and houses in my city have gone from ~$150K to ~$300K. That's 200-300% inflation in 20 years. I know, I know, "anecdote, data, etc." but just about the only thing I can think of where prices have decreased is technology -- computers, hard drives, network gear, cell phones, etc.

Re:lol

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the difference?

Re:lol

[HornWumpus]

China has their currency pegged to ours (other countries too, but China is the one that matters).

That means we sort of share a monetary policy. We print money, it causes inflation in China as they are forced to also print money to maintain the peg.

If China lets their currency float then we see the pent up inflation hit us as all their products double in price (and their bank reserves of US bonds halve in value). Shock to both economies. Double plus ungood.

But the peg needs to move faster. Eventual float.

My only question: Where is the arbitrage opportunity?

Re:lol

[Grishnakh]

That "dirt cheap" food is much shittier than it was 20+ years ago. On top of that, portion sizes have shrunk: take a look at various canned foods, and compare them with cans from 20 years ago; the volumes have shrunk slightly to offset the inflation.

Clothing is only cheaper because they've moved all the production to southeast Asia, and of course tech products are cheaper for two reasons: 1) they're all made in China now, and 2) newer technological processes are cheaper and more efficient than the old ones. Also 3) volumes are likely higher for many tech items, and greater volumes means greater economies of scale; not as many people had PCs or laptop 20 years ago.

With furniture, you have to be careful because there's a lot of shitty cardboard furniture out there (no shit, it's just paper fibers pressed together with a fake wood-grain laminate glued on top); for a valid comparison, you need to look at the prices of solid wood high-quality furniture (something like Thomasville), from both then and now. Even that's a little suspect because on a lot of the factory furniture, they're using more veneers on even the hardwood furniture: instead of solid cherry, they make it out of a cheap hardwood like birch and use cherry veneers. Still far better than cardboard shit, but it's not the same as non-veneered furniture as veneers can come off, plus if you ever want to refinish the piece, there's only so much you can do with a veneer, whereas with solid wood you can sand through even deep scratches and refinish without damaging it.

Bottom line: be very careful in how you make comparisons in the prices of items.

Re:lol

[rrohbeck]

Exactly. The macro trend is deflationary and trillions more will be deleveraged through bankruptcies and foreclosures, especially if/when more shit in Europe hits the fan or the economy tanks again. Significantly lower money volume equals deflation. The inflationary policies of the Fed are designed to offset that.

Re:lol

[GumphMaster]

That's not anecdotal, it's concrete data, but not a convincing illustration. 20 years to increase from $36 to $120/hr. That's a factor of 3.33 over 20 years or an annual growth rate of 6%. Hardly hyperinflation.

Looking at averaged petrol prices in Brisbane, Australia: Dec 1980 $0.306 per litre to Dec 2006 $1.111 per litre (http://www.aaa.asn.au/documents/stats/70.xls). Factor of 3.63 over 26 years or an annual rate of 4.96%. That is hardly abnormal inflation. Yesterday that same fuel was 1.519 per litre, a 6.25% percent rate over the past five years but the volatility of fuel price here is a big factor: that fuel was 1.419 last weekend, and is strongly cyclical.

What's the problem?

[YttriumOxide]

Firstly, what's the big deal with the document having these microdots? They identify the machine by serial number, and the time (assuming the machine's clock is set correctly - in my experience, many aren't). The "location" isn't really identified since these devices have no way of knowing their location, so what's being described here isn't actually possible.

If you're going to be printing stuff you don't want identified, don't use one of these machines, sure. But for day to day normal printing, it's not exactly going to affect you.

I'm aware this argument sounds a lot like "if you've got nothing to hide, you don't need security" or whatever, but really it's not. If you DO want to hide that the job was printed on your device, change the serial number (on most devices, this just requires knowing how to get to the "Service Mode" of the machine - which, while no company will tell you how, is trivially easy to find on Google).

It's not like we actively keep it a secret that our machines do this.

And just as a minor nitpick: "Konica" and "Minolta" haven't been two separate companies in a long time. (Full disclosure: I work for Konica Minolta)

Re:What's the problem?

[roman_mir]

The problem is government cooperation, this automatically raises a flag - this company will not have a problem cooperating with the government.

So, what do these companies have to hide? What are they getting from government that they agreed to do this?

Re:What's the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've got nothing to hide, but then suddenly stop being trackable, that implies that now you do now have something to hide.

Why not guilty until proven innocent, instead? Oh wait, that ended when Reagan instituted drug testing.

Re:What's the problem?

[bWareiWare.co.uk]

The are LOTS of flaws in your agument. Prehaps the easiest to explain is what happens if the is a revolution in your country and previous 'free-expression' suddenly lands you in jail?

 

Re:What's the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem 1: It was *not* pointed out to the customers that this was happening, it was only revealed by the EFF and then not denied. It would've been ridiculous to deny it.
Problem 2: Still if I buy such a printer it is neither stated on the packaging nor in the manuel that the printer prints this information. This is not what I would call a transparent process.
Problem 3: If I send a job to a printer I expect the printer to print my job, not anything else!
Problem 4: Printing these dots consumes my ink.
Problem 5: There is no possibility to turn this "feature" off. Why? Who is your customer?

Next thing you tell us that this is a feature to improve customer satisfaction.

Re:What's the problem?

[YttriumOxide]

The are LOTS of flaws in your agument. Prehaps the easiest to explain is what happens if the is a revolution in your country and previous 'free-expression' suddenly lands you in jail?

Let's imagine I have a home printer that prints these microdots. I use it for printing birthday cards, kids' homework, letters to my bank, and other miscellany. If there's a revolution and any of these things become illegal, I've got bigger problems than being tracked by my printer.

As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me. Generally speaking, tracing a serial number will get it to the store that sold it to me and not much further. For larger office devices (the stuff I work with in my day job) there's no way a home user would have it, but we could track it to the end user (customer) in theory. That however would only give us the company, not the individual user (unless that company themselves had a tracking system for their users, and then how is that OUR fault?)

Yeh, I'd prefer it if these microdots didn't exist, but I've yet to see a convincing argument of their actual danger.

Re:What's the problem?

[grub]

It's trivial to geolocate with IP and most printers are networked these days. Changing the serial doesn't mean the "real" burned in one isn't printed as well.

Seriously, what benefit is there to the consumer for this behaviour? None. Stop being an apologist for your employer.

Re:What's the problem?

[YttriumOxide]

It's trivial to geolocate with IP and most printers are networked these days.

True, but most aren't given public IP addresses (any many aren't even given access out the firewall to try and figure out the public address)

Changing the serial doesn't mean the "real" burned in one isn't printed as well.

Note the bit where I said I work for Konica Minolta... I know what I'm talking about here. The serial number written in the microdots is ABSOLUTELY the one that is programmed in electronically by the service-person and NOT some kind of hard-coded value.

Seriously, what benefit is there to the consumer for this behaviour? None.

You'll get no argument from me there. I never said I was in favour of these microdots, just that they're REALLY ineffective and therefore you can generally happily ignore the attempted invasion of privacy and it's no big deal.

Stop being an apologist for your employer.

My employer (right up to senior management at our parent company) knows when I agree with them and when I disagree. I'm secure enough in my position there that I know I don't need to kiss arse to keep my job.

Re:What's the problem?

[chichilalescu]

you know, my aunt had a typing machine. in Romania, before the fall of communism. and everybody remembers that, in those days, you had to give the "fingerprint" of any typing machine to the authorities.
as you might know, there are these tiny problems with each letter, and they can be traced back to the machine. so, in practice, the authorities could find out if a paper had been typed by your machine or not.
in my experience, if you want a warranty for your printer, the store will need the serial number of your device. and if you pay with a credit card, they can link your contact information to the device. and if you try to google the way to change the serial number, you probably end up an watchlist of some sort.
personally, I don't know if it's a good situation when it's impossible to be anonymous. but I am certain they should tell you about it when it does happen.
your argument is that it doesn't affect normal users, and that you don't actively keep it a secret. well, you do keep it a secret, because a FOIA request had to be made to find it out. and it doesn't matter if it affects normal users or not, as long as they don't know.

Re:What's the problem?

[Mabhatter]

This was published years ago. Probably on Slasdot. Add to that the "yellow circles" patterns that are in various currencies (like the pattern of "20s" on a $20 bill) and they have been working with copier/scanner/software makers to flag those items as non-copy able as well. ... This was years ago...

This has been a problem for years... I remember 15 years ah at my first real job, somebody was caught putting copied $1 bills into the vending machines. They had to do something eventually.

If you need to print objectionable content, be sure to destroy or hide the printers you used kids!

Re:What's the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh? Did you buy that printer with a credit card? Video surveilence at time of purchase could be useful if not....

There are plenty of methods of tracking a purchased item to a person. The convincing argument for me is this - The reason given for doing this was to stop counterfits. However printing quality out of those printers is no where near enough to fool idiots down the street. What other reason is there then, other that to track the local people?

Re:What's the problem?

[Megane]

As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

Re:What's the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also: money counterfeiters have no right to exist.

It' s not all about the counterfeiters. Everything printed on those printers ties the sheets of paper back to that unit.

This behaviour in itself doesn't prove a person did anything but will add to the weight of evidence against them. Write a manifesto in the woods? Anonymous whistle-blower documents? White power propaganda? Love poems? Birthday cards for your kids?

It doesn't matter, there is the potential to identify the source of literally billions (trillions?) of pieces of paper all to catch a few bad guys.

It's a broad net.

Re:What's the problem?

[Richard_at_work]

They could do that anyway, every laser and inkjet printer has a unique signature in the way it prints, with the spacing of dots, dirt and unintended marks left on the paper - it's an inherent part of the character of each printer, but needs skill and time to interpret.

I recall watching a UK police documentary about fraud over a decade ago, where they IDed the exact printer some fraudulent documents were printed on, proving their suspect was linked to the case. The evidence stood up in court too.

Re:What's the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiot. Sorry, but that is the only appropriate response.
Nobody really cares about counterfeiters.
What you are actually saying is that counterfeiters and others with a criminal intent will not be affected whereas everyone will no longer be anonymous when they print something.
Don't you think it is a bit worrying that registering your printer with the manufacturer means that manufacturer can know whether something was printed by you? That a handlful of printer manufacturers together can probably identify the exact person who printed it for maybe 10% or so of everything printed?

Re:What's the problem?

[dtmos]

Nobody said the microdots could only be used to stop counterfeiters. If that were true, this would be a non-issue. Modern digital copiers already have internal image-recognition software that refuses to copy something that resembles currency -- printers could too, and maybe already do, for all I know.

The problem is that the dots appear on more than just images that resemble currency. They appear on all printed documents, including those describing political opinions that may differ with those currently in power (whenever and whoever they may be), descriptions of your wife and daughter's medical conditions, your personal investments, etc. Leaving one's name off of one's document no longer makes it anonymous -- intentionally or otherwise -- to someone who knows the secret.

If you don't care about the microdots, I suggest that you don't print many of your political views. Saying unkind things about the EFF, for example, is trivial and even chic today, but neither of us knows how those views may be considered in the future. And don't do any favors for your friends -- anything you print for them would be traced back to you, not them.

I note in passing that the microdots are substantially invisible to the unaided eye, and I am willing to bet that not one member of the public in a hundred -- possibly a thousand -- knows they are there. The EFF is publicizing their presence, so that all citizens will know. How is this undemocratic?

Re:What's the problem?

[Requiem18th]

The argument of their actual danger has ben explained to you already but I'll try again. The problems are availability, plausible deniability and finally, "red flaging" (I don't know the proper term, my apologies).

It's the same argument for total encryption, if you encrypt only sensitive information you are making it very easy for an attacker to know what to look for. If the only encrypted files in your laptop are your credit card numbers and password stores, Again if the only email you encrypt is the most highly sensitive ones, and industrial spy who gains access to your email knows exactly where to look for trade secrets.

This means that if you ever have a good reason to print something you don't want traced back to you, you'll have to get access to an special printer. Cracking down on religious or political dissidents, whistleblowers and "unconfortable" citizens becomes a matter of tracking down who has access to these special printers. That's the red flag.

Sooner than later just having such a printer becomes proof of any crime, such as encrypting your harddrive and refusing to hand over the key is considered evidence of the crime by some authorities. If you want to have access to these printers when you need them you need to use them when you don't need them. That's your plausible deniability.

And if they simply become ilegal, there is no availability.

Let's drop the topic of revolutions and use a theme closer to home, whisthleblowing. So you are a lowly clerk in an oil company and happend uppon records proving corruption involving high profile politicians. So you take the files in a USB, print them at home and send them anonymously to an activist group.

If your mail get's intercepted, you are fucked. If your employer's lawyers get them, you are fucked. If the police happens to "lose" them. You are fucked. Because thanks to cooperation between corporations and the state it's easy to trace you. The yellow dots link your copy to your printer, to the store and to your credit card number. And for all we know there is already a database out there that just links yellow dots to names and it only takes a few calls to know who leaked the incriminating data.

And once they know you may as well move yourself to perpetual-unemployment-ville.

Re:What's the problem?

[newcastlejon]

There's a significant difference, I think, between taking measures to prevent an act of crime as it occurs and taking actions that also affect legitimate uses.

The fear (perhaps unjustified) is that in theory these dots could identify a person printing things that are not illegal in of themselves but are still inconvenient/undesirable to the authorities.

Re:What's the problem?

[gaspyy]

Yes, parent is correct. We were required by law to register any typewriter with the police. Failure to comply was a major offense, with prison time and if you were flagged as threat to the system you could end up in a forced labor camp (e.g. the infamous "Danube-Black Sea Canal"). Nasty memories and it's incredible how people don't learn from history.

Re:What's the problem?

[Dysproxia]

As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

Unless you count the printer driver, driver installer or the network connected printer itself calling home for warranty related reasons, reporting at the very least the serial number and your IP address, and whatever other personal information you probably gave it willingly.

Re:What's the problem?

[YttriumOxide]

I just take issue with your claim that the printer has no time or location data. The printer is constantly connected to things that have time and location data.

True, but the devices are simply not that smart to make use of it. Trust me, the firmware developers in the printer industry aren't exactly the best and brightest in the software development world. They use the time as determined by the machine. They use the serial number that is programmed in to them. There is no location data of any use (specifically, I can tell you that the "location" variable on Konica Minolta devices in Europe is "Europe" - hardly an accurate location statement)

Note that when I talk about these firmware developers, I am referring to colleagues of mine. They're not "dumb", they're just a different kind of software person to the likes of myself and many here on slashdot. They have a different mindset and think about different kinds of things and different concerns than I would. I wouldn't be any good at their job (e.g. figuring out how to get the best user experience in a real-time OS controlling both the operation panel and the print processing) and they wouldn't be any good at mine (writing userland software for complex networked environments to interact with the devices (including keeping security on my side of the fence as a priority)).

Re:What's the problem?

[newcastlejon]

4. If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding it?

If people have nothing to hide, why are the government taking such a keen interest in them?

Re:What's the problem?

[leonardluen]

but changing the serial isn't enough, unless you do it after every print job. the problem with the serial is they can tell multiple sheets of paper came from the same printer. if you make a mistake and print out objectionable content, and then forget to change the serial and print out some non-objectionable material and are carrying that piece of paper around, they can then track you back to the objectionable content which has the same serial. even if that is not the same serial that originally shipped with the printer.

also keep in mind that what some govt's (China for example) view as objectionable might be viewed as perfectly innocent by many people.

Re:What's the problem?

[gbjbaanb]

Once upon a time this was a problem - I'm thinking of Eastern Europe during the cold war, but back then they had limited access to things like typewriters and copiers, so when the stazi kicked your door in they could find that your typewriter wrote out the seditious pamphlets.

Today there are more printers than you can think of - they're almost disposable as the companies try to make their profits from the ink. Many of these are connected to the internet and available online or in kiosks, so it should be a lot easier to hide your tracks.

All that said though, some countries where they still have oppressive regimes (and I'm not thinking of America now) don't have the same level of access to this technology, so it's still a problem for them.

Your company (and the American government) ought to understand this, and allow non-identifiable printers to be sold abroad, or at least have a means of printing banknotes that always have flaws without the personal identifiers.

Re:What's the problem?

[YttriumOxide]

And for all we know there is already a database out there that just links yellow dots to names and it only takes a few calls to know who leaked the incriminating data.

If there was, the following conversation would not have taken place:

• My phone rings...
• Me: Hello, Yttrium Oxide* speaking (not my real name)
• Person: Hi, this is Joe Bloggs* from Government Security Agency* (not real name or agency)
• Person: Are you the person to talk to about determining who a device was sent to by its microdot pattern?
• Me: Hmmm, sorry, not my area. You seem to have been transferred to the wrong department. I'll transfer you to the right person.

That's only happened once, around 6 or 7 years ago. Same current employer, different country. It may be that such a database exists in the US for example, but I've never worked there so couldn't say. It definitely doesn't exist in Australia where I used to work otherwise they wouldn't have called asking that question.

Re:What's the problem?

[YttriumOxide]

Do me a favor.

Go down to the guys in the driver dept, and hand out a few swift kicks to the balls.

Oh, I would SO love to... Sadly, the main driver devs are sitting in Japan and our guys here in Europe only do customisations and localisation - they don't deserve the kick.

On the plus side, if you're located in Europe and have a company (even just a one-person company) with a non-"freemail" email address, sign up (for free, but with NDA agreement) to our Developer Support Portal and you can get all our PDL (PJL, PCL, PS) specs to make your own driver. Wait a few months and there may be some even cooler stuff there for doing your own drivers much more easily (sorry, can't confirm that definitely right now).

Any questions, post on the forums there and I'll answer as best I can! (or pay for a developer support contract and get guaranteed full technical answers to questions as well as a lot more cool resources)

Re:What's the problem?

[PopeRatzo]

Me: Hello, Yttrium Oxide* speaking (not my real name)

So you're not related to the Connecticut Oxides? When I was in college, I dated Strontium. I've had a nasty rash ever since.

Re:What's the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is government cooperation, this automatically raises a flag - this company will not have a problem cooperating with the government.

You make it sound like they had a choice.

"Nice company you got here. Be a shame if we had to audit your records for the past twenty years. You're not on the terrorists' side, are you?"

Re:What's the problem?

[YttriumOxide]

Mr Konica Minolta employee, is the article submitter being quite a dick when they say "less than a millimeter each"? A millimeter is not particularly small; while I'm sure the dots are less than a mm, it's about as good as saying they're smaller than the size of the page.

Both links have been slashdotted, so I'm genuinely curious how small the dots are; surely not larger than 0.1 mm.

Others have already answered, but you asked me, so I'll give the best answer I can. Yes, the others are correct that it's WAY smaller than a millimeter, since that'd be pretty pointless if they were that large. The exact size depends on the device in question due to the way that this is embedded at a "lower layer" than simply manipulating the image data coming in (it's done at the actual physical print layer), but it can be up to around a half a millimeter on really cruddy devices or as small as 0.05mm on really good devices. There is no standardised size.

Re:What's the problem?

[jamstar7]

They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

I really really really would like to see someone try that and get out in one piece here not a hope in hell that would be real fun to watch An Englishman's home is his castle and i Enforce that to the Hilt and i do mean very seriously Enforce it

Seems to me I've heard something or other saying that it's illegal to have most kinds of guns at home, and have to register shotguns and keep them at a shooting club or something? And isn't there a restriction on blade lengths of edged weaponry? What you gonna do, sicc your wife on them?

Re:What's the problem?

[Oligonicella]

"So you take the files in a USB, print them at home and send them anonymously to an activist group."

Why? Just for the glory of watching the paper spew? Send a copy of the USB.

Re:What's the problem?

[DerekLyons]

As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

Paranoid much? Seriously, they've been doing that with handwriting and typewriters since, roughly forever. Then there's any fingerprints or DNA you might leave on the paper to consider too. And your license plate number when they surveil the parking lot of the post office where the documents were mailed from. And checking your hard drive for the digital files, and your trash for draft copies, and your email for related writings, and your bookcase/ereader for related reading. Doing textual analysis on emails and other postings on the internet... Etc... etc...
 
Consider that the Unabomber was caught because his brother recognized his writing style. The Lindbergh kidnapper by comparing handwriting. Albert Fish because he used a unique paper... (Huh, Wikipedia to the rescue again - they have an entire article on this, found while researching cases.)
 
Seriously, acting like this represents some unique threat or certain nail in your coffin where there is no other is simply ludicrous.

Re:What's the problem?

[msauve]

"It's trivial to geolocate with IP"

Really? My printer has IP address 192.168.1.201. Where is it located?

Re:What's the problem?

[houstonbofh]

Oh? Did you buy that printer with a credit card? Video surveilence at time of purchase could be useful if not....

After this http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/ I am seriously thinking of dropping all my cards. I will, at least, be using them a lot less.

But to address your comment, that only works if the store records the serial number with the purchase, and not just the model. And assumes you do not buy a used printer.

Re:What's the problem?

[houstonbofh]

Just like Kim Dotcom. Wait a minute...

Re:What's the problem?

[tibit]

Who are the fucktards who came up with an idea that this should be under an NDA?! What THE FUCK has changed that this stuff cannot be included in at least the electronic version of the printer manual? It used to be that printers came with manuals that had the full command language laid out in the back. Of course todays' printers are more complex; it'd be probably a waste of paper and money to include it in whatever physical documentation that's coming with the printer. Alas, there's nothing at all barring you from just documenting your FINE product in the first place.

Sorry, this irrational behavior on the part of printer vendors just gets me all upset. Because it's stupid. Fuck if I will buy Konica/Minolta, even HP has freely available technical documentation for their mainstream printing languages, even for "esoteric" stuff like PJL.

Re:What's the problem?

[drussell]

Problem 4: Printing these dots consumes my ink.

Yes, and it uses a LOT of it! Older HP color lasers would print a B&W page without using the color toner cartridges at all, no wasted toner on a B&W page... Many of the newer ones I've seen always use a color pass for B&W, making color toner cartridges run out quite quickly when printing B&W even though it shouldn't even have to pull color toner onto the drum. And yes, the yellow always runs out first (even though it's only used a little bit more than the base "waste toner" that is used on each pass of a cartridge). (I have a couple LaserJet 2840s and this is VERY obvious; we get about 10% of rated color toner cart life due to high B&W use).

I'm sure HP loves it, it's another way to sell even more quantity of their overpriced inks and toners. This "feature" costs us about $500/year per printer in extra toner use! (About an extra cyan and magenta each year -- yellow about every 9 mo.)

I can even see the pattern naked-eye, at least on the 96 bright paper we use... It's always been VERY annoying. Otherwise, fairly nice printers, but they eat supplies and I've known exactly why since day 1.

Re:What's the problem?

[houstonbofh]

Actually, this can lead to more security for wistleblowers, if they have some knowledge. Since this is now so easy, it is hard for any government to justify having a large questioned documents section. (They are expensive after all) So all you have to do, is change your dots, print the super secret stuff, and then change them back. Then if they compare pages, and get non-matching numbers, they check no further.

Re:What's the problem?

[currently_awake]

When you install the printer it phones home and gives them IP and serial. Now they DO know who you are. Now let's say you work for the government but want to protest something they are doing- so you print out posters and secretly staple them to telephone poles. And lose your job.

Re:What's the problem?

[pclminion]

I work for a university and we've used this to find out who was printing politically "charged flyers".

Students getting involved in politics, we can't have that! What University is this so I can avoid ever coming within 100 miles of it or accidentally sending my kids there?

Re:What's the problem?

[Tweezak]

Easy solution.

Print all your ransom notes/bomb threats, etc. on a yellow background. Problem solved.

Re:What's the problem?

[currently_awake]

Most modern photocopiers scan to a hard drive before printing. In theory they could have a built in cellphone modem to send everything to the NSA or TSA. Also it's possible to emboss a pattern on the edge of the page that's only visible under polarized light instead of yellow dots, allowing them to track back to the copier where they read the hard drive that also stores the yellow dot info (scanner also detects yellow dots and records that info).

Re:What's the problem?

[BaldingByMicrosoft]

I started to consider this. But then I stopped when I realized that it's just the "blah blah blah" that somebody had spewed in the past.

Re:What's the problem?

[__aaltlg1547]

Oh, dear. Another member of the "if they're inside our network, we have bigger problems" policy of ignoring basic security practices until it's far, far, far too late.

It's much safer to protect freedoms and rights earlier, before their loss has become accepted, than to try to roll back years or decades of common practice.

Nice condescension there. Do you get points for that?

The ironic thing is that is the same sort of argument the Secret Service would make to support their efforts to print the identifying dots. They want to protect your ability to have some confidence in the authenticity of paper currency, and unless you're a counterfeiter, you want them to be successful at their efforts. You just don't like the dots because there are other potentially nefarious purposes that they could put those dots to.

There's an inherent tension between not wanting Big Brother too far in your shorts and wanting Big Brother to help you ensure that reasonable laws are enforced and enforceable.

I see the dots as a relatively low risk that any savvy person can work around if need be, especially when traded off against my desire to have it possible to ensure the authenticity and integrity of printed documents including but not limited to currency.

Re:What's the problem?

[tibit]

It must take some serious conspiracy theorist to believe that publicly publishing an accurate description of a printer's command language puts you somehow at a disadvantage. Because, you know, your geeky users who may dare to develop products that talk to your printer directly are teh worst hackers and all.

Here's my take: there was a time about a decade and a half ago where I had to develop a self contained product that, for sake of being simple to use, had to talk directly to a printer. That product ended selling with a particular brand of printer, and the choice was made solely on the available level of documentation: otherwise, even if the printer would be cheaper to buy or to own, it'd still be a pipe dream. Someone somewhere got a couple thousand sold printers because of it -- all on documentation, nothing else.

Re:What's the problem?

[Rick17JJ]

A whistle-blower or political dissident could purchase an inexpensive printer in cash, without using their shoppers discount card. Then they could print the files from the USB device and then quickly dispose of the inexpensive printer.

Not wanting to risk loosing their job, or getting sued or harassed by their corrupt employer, they could even go so far as to purchase the printer in cash from a store in a different city. That way, records would show that the printer had been sold to someone in cash, in some city other than when the whistle-blower actually lives.

Does downloading updated printer drivers involve sending the printer's serial number and IP address back to the manufacturer? I do not know if that actually happens or not. To cover that possibility, a technically adept whistle-blower could disconnect their computer from the Internet and then boot up from a Knoppix disk or some other live Linux CD, before printing the documents. Most likely, the Linux live CD will already have the Linux driver for that printer, already on the CD. They could then dispose of the printer and the LiveCD before connecting the connecting their computer to the Internet and then booting it back up in Windows or Mac OS.

An alternative to using a Linux live CD, would be to purchase an old used computer in cash. Presumably, the driver for the printer could be installed from the CD without never having to be connected to the Internet. The inexpensive old used computer could then quickly be disposed of.

When mailing the documents to an activist group or the press, they could also mail if from a different city than where they actually live, so that the post mark would not show which city they live in.

Unfortunately, most whistleblowers or political dissidents probably would not know about the tiny yellow dots. Of course, it would be preferable if most criminals do not know about such technology. Most terrorist organizations are probably already sophisticated enough to avoid such mistakes, unfortunately.

Re:What's the problem?

[spire3661]

Hes fucking right. The lassez-faire attitude about this on slashdot is pretty disgusting. This level of collusion between the govt and business to stop counterfeiting (which is not worth spying on every printer) is an abomination and lays the groundwork for much worse. Im sorry you dont have the imagination to see the end game to this.

Re:What's the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

Counterfeit black and white currency is a serious problem in the U.S. $500/year is a small price to pay to combat this epidemic and keep our economy from sliding into deep recession!!1

Re:What's the problem?

[Antique Geekmeister]

I hope I do get points for this: the idea that "once they start abusing that ignored security feature, it's too late so we shouldn't think about it now" is a very common security approach that makes it difficult for my peers to clean up environments we work with. By reviewing and accepting your layers of protections in advance, you can provide much more effective protection should any one layer fail. The idea that "it's too late by then" is very helpful to guiding people down the slippery slope to a police state, because it _is_ too late by then.

Unfortunately, this "security feature" was not publicly set or even ackonwledged: The existence of the microdots is one aspect: providing the access to model information and serial numbers, as a monitoring practice, is quite another, and that occurred _without_ court order and without a legal framework, law, or regulations on when or how it should be provided. _That_ is a Big Brother tactic ripe for abuse. Without the legal trail of a warrant or subpoena, how can we know that the primary usage of such monitoring is _not_ political monitoring? And how can we even know whether it's ever been helpful to identify or prosecute a real counterfeiter?

Re:What's the problem?

[mikael]

Just use letters cut out from newspapers. And wear latex gloves.

Re:What's the problem?

[Darinbob]

So don't use printers. Or mobile phones. Or land phones. Or pen and paper. Or credit cards. Or cash (those things hold fingerprints and have *omg* serial numbers).

Re:What's the problem?

[einhverfr]

Well, there are actually two uses for the yellow dots.

The first is tracking fake documents back to their source. There your idea has some merit.

The other is noting that a document was printed on a laser printer anyway. For example, TSA agents look at all id's with a blue light, presumably looking for these dots. A magnifying glass, looking at microprint on, say, passports would get further than the yellow light, and would not be more expensive or time consuming. Indeed the same magnifying glass might even show these yellow dots. The current scheme only catches cheap fakes. Someone mounting a major counterfeiting operation for things like visas and passports would use better technology than that though.

The issue that this is a cheap way to identify fakes is very dangerous because it is fairly easy to circumvent.

Yay! I have a Lexmark!

[erroneus]

Great to know my printer maker isn't on the list.

Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark!

[datapharmer]

No worries, lexmark print quality is so horrid and their printers so unreliable who in their right mind would actually try to counterfeit anything using one?

Top reasons for surveillance

[dragisha]

1) To find child pornographers
2) To find money counterfeiters ....

So, every 1,000,000th computer user is 1), and probably every 10,000,000th is 2).. Or something like. Nothing bad, I would propose much stricter sentencing for 1), and let authorities eat 2) for breakfast, and so on... But... 1) and 2) are probably verrry aware of methods used so only guaranteed effect is: surveillance and control of rest of us.

We (the rest) are just collateral damage - freedom here and freedom there is lost...

Nothing new here... :)

As for printer companies - Every single one not on this list is just temporarily off it. Why would they decline request like that from government? At least for printer sold in some country, it's only normal to expect its government to impose such request onto company willing to sell it's wares. While this situation is very similar to old reasoning for cryptography for our emails, I really don't see why it would be a problem to me if papers I produce are traceable by government? A lot of my writing is already in circulation so they also have many other ways to match my papers to me :).

How much you wanna bet

[Compaqt]

it was just a "voluntary" request for cooperation.

(That means they had good old Joe Lieberman call up the company and "ask" them to print teh dots.)

Re:yellow dots??

[Bardwick]

Can't print green money on a B/W printer..

Magic GPS?

[mehrotra.akash]

Are printers coming with Magical GPS systems now?
Cause last I checked, GPS doesnt work indoors, and a GPS system costs more than the price of an entry level printer
And, without GPS, how do they plan to get your location?
Also, where does the printer get an accurate time reading from, and how do you link a serial number to a person unless they take the printer in for servicing, or purchased it using their own credit card

Re:So this is why my ink runs out so fast!

[Anonymous Coward]

Or more exaclty why my printer refuse to print black and white pages because the yellow cartridge is empty.

What?

[Rydia]

Really? This is cause for outrage? The insane idea that the government might look at something you wrote and hunt you down using a printer serial number and some possible registration information? This isn't a "the innocent have nothing to hide" argument, this is a "any government agency that actually used this for anything other than the stated purpose is insane" argument. There are hundreds of far more efficient, reliable and accurate ways to figure out who you are and what you have been up to.

Reading through the comments, about how your printer is going to betray you when the fascist power grab comes, it is abundantly clear that a sizable portion of slashdotters enjoy nothing more than working themselves up by finding whatever scant excuse to go on hyperbolic rants about how the government is just waiting to come and take them away to gitmo, and that the only way to avoid this is to compete to see who is the most paranoid.

The sad thing is when the government DOES overstep its bounds and quash our freedoms, these people will have negative credibility because everyone else know that, to them, everything is a sinister government plot.

Certainly not microscopic

[kccricket]

I've worked rather extensively with a Xerox DocuColor 252 over the last four years. Those yellow dots are anything but microscopic. I could plainly see the dots on most printouts under standard office-style fluorescent lighting. They always bugged the crap out of me.

Re:Certainly not microscopic

[chrb]

http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/ has some magnified images. At 10x zoom I would guess the diameter is about 1mm, so maybe 0.1mm for the original dots...

Defective by design

[fibonacci8]

This probably helps explain why so many customers have brought printers to me complaining of the defect where B&W print jobs do not print when the color cartidge gets low.

Re:um...

[zill]

Here's a partial list:

lexmark
Kodak
TVS Electronics
WeP
PENTAX
Planon
prolink
Olivetti
Epson
Lenovo
OKI
Panasonic
Dell
Samsung
Kyocera

Someone already made the bad printing quality joke so I won't bore you with it again.

Note to self.

[sgt scrub]

Never buy a used printer.

Re:Note to self.

[Adam Appel]

Or, um, ALWAYS buy a used printer.

Samizdat

[anwaya]

One of the things a fully developed police state needs to be able to do is control the flow of all information. You need a mechanism that can be used to identify who has been producing physical copies of banned works - say, a play by Vaclav Havel, or a copy of The Master and Margarita - so that you can lock them up.

What these printer companies have done, by collaborating with the US in this way, is to make it easier for police states to monitor and control the physical flow of information.

If the government really wanted to get to you...

[Streetlight]

It was alleged that during one of the Gulf Wars, the US had modified printers sold to Iraq with some kind of location device allowing cruise missiles to find their target. I assume this was some kind of radio transmitter that identified what Iraqi government department had purchased the printer. I'm also guessing that the device probably cost a lot more than the printer. It has just recently been noted in the news that in the US pilotless drones will be allowed to fly presumably looking for bad guys. I think folks may have more to worry about than yellow dots on printer output. It's been known that military ordinance sometimes hits the wrong target, so beware.

Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark!

[erroneus]

No, not paranoia... It's the fact that printer ink is the most valuable liquid in the world.

http://boingboing.net/2009/12/30/graph-compares-price.html

More valuable than blood and definitely more valuable than crude oil, let alone gasoline.

People ask "what to the printer makers get for their complicity?" More ink and toner sales of course.

against the law (shakes fist)

[KingAlanI]

There's a US law that forbids melting down pennies and nickels, or exporting them in large quantities.
(The penny was changed to copper-plated zinc in mid-1982; 95% copper pennies from before then are also worth above their face value in metal.)

USC Title 31 Section 5111 subsection D (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5111) gives the Secretary of the Treasury the option, http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&ID=724 is about that option being used.

PS
Many silver coins are just worth their metal value, and those are often melted down.

Re:against the law (shakes fist)

[Hognoxious]

Are you sure those machines work the way you think they work?

Pretty much. The mechanism's in a transparent box. You can see your coin drop down and go through the rollers. That's half the fun.

Maybe you're just buying a pre-made novelty coin for a penny.

Maybe commenting on something that you've obviously never seen and know nothing about is just totally fucking retarded. And arrogant.

I read your link, I'd point out a mistake

[way2trivial]

.. it was the right house
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiyana_Stanley_Jones

not saying there weren't multiple fuckups on the parts of law enforcement,
  (there most assuredly were from what I read)
    but there is a small sliver of 'reap what ya sow' in all that went on there, father included.......

used printer.

[ClioCJS]

so buy your printers used. not a big deal. Preferably, buy them used from your political enemies, so anything bad traces back to *them*.

Re:um...

[imjustmatthew]

Do all of those companies actually manufacture their own printers? I thought Dell just re-branded other printers.