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Nuclear Truckers Haul Warheads Across US
Hugh Pickens writes "As you weave through interstate traffic, you're unlikely to notice a plain-looking Peterbilt tractor-trailer or have any idea that inside the cab an armed federal agent operates a host of electronic countermeasures to keep outsiders from accessing his heavily armored cargo: a nuclear warhead. Adam Weinstein writes that the Office of Secure Transportation (OST) employs nearly 600 couriers to move bombs, weapon components, radioactive metals for research, and fuel for Navy ships and submarines between a variety of labs, reactors and military bases. Hiding nukes in plain sight and rolling them through major metropolitan centers raises a slew of security and environmental concerns, from theft to terrorist attack to radioactive spills. 'Any time you put nuclear weapons and materials on the highway, you create security risks,' says Tom Clements, a nuclear security watchdog for Friends of the Earth. For security, cabs are fitted with custom composite armor and lightweight armored glass, a redundant communications system that links the convoys to a monitoring center in Albuquerque, and the driver has the ability to disable the truck so it can't be moved or opened. The OST hires military veterans, particularly ex-special-operations forces (PDF), who are trained in close-quarters battle, tactical shooting, physical fitness, and shifting smoothly through the gears of a tractor-trailer. But accidents happen. In 1996, a driver flipped his trailer on a two-lane Nebraska hill road after a freak ice storm, sending authorities scrambling to secure its payload of two nuclear bombs; and in 2003, two trucks operated by private contractors had rollover accidents in Montana and Tennessee while hauling uranium hexafluoride, a compound used to enrich reactor and bomb fuel."
use UPS or Fedex?
Why not use trains, at least for most of the journey? The chance of an accident is much smaller.
Not your usual trucker then.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Even the inventors of nuclear bombs didn't want the damned things to exist. They knew they were possible and somebody would invent them - so they did. Oppenheimer said afterward that on watching a nuclear test he was reminded of a verse from the Hindu scripture: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."
So we don't like these things. We don't want them to have to exist, but they do. And they've got to be moved around, which means over the roads we have. If you shovel enough shit, eventually you get dirty. Shit happens.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Nukes on 18-wheelers? Ho hum. What should be news is other, obscure but public, information about the lasting environmental effects of nuclear weapons production in the 1950s and 1960s, for example millions of acres of contaminated land that are under "long term stewardship" and the DOE's plans to guard them until the year 4000.
Cart does not push self, it pulls itself in this case.
(Apologies to TF2's cart-push gamemode)
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_Corps
Why would it feel any different than trucking a couple of thousand bees? Or oil? Or some potentially dangerous material?
Nuclear warheads and uranium don't just up and spontaneously explode y'know.
I heard about this some years ago, and the reason was rather sinister.
The way I heard it is that nuclear non-proliferation treaties that the US has signed to limit the number of warheads in its arsenal. However warheads in transit do not count towards this total, and in the interests of security the US is not obliged to reveal how many warheads it has in transit at any one time or where they are going. By keeping a percentage of it arsenal perpetually driving around the US, the US government can effectively sidestep nuclear warhead limits imposed by non-proliferation treaties.
But what if they did? o.O What then? Do you want the blood of SPONTANEOUS EXPLOSIONS CAUSING THE APOCALYPSE on your hands?
or else, we may never see Dare Devil in real life.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
Greetings and Salutations.
Nothing surprising about this. Containers of radioactive materials, and nuclear weapons have been trucked around the country for decades. Please note that in that time, There have been a total of three accidents with zero loss of nuclear materials. The bottom line is that the nuclear materials have to be moved somehow, and, overall the current transport system has proved to be safe and effective.
The world is a dangerous place, but, before we run about screaming that the sky is falling, perhaps we should look at the probabilities of a given disaster. There is always a non-zero chance that any disaster can happen - for that matter quantum theory tells us that there is a non-zero chance that all the oxygen molecules in a room will end up on the left half of the room, leaving nothing but nitrogen on the right half. However, in many cases (like these) the probability of a disaster that releases radiation or puts significant amounts of it in an enemy's hands (or moves all the oxygen out of half of a room) actually happening is so low that it might happen once in the entire lifetime of the universe.
I would prefer it that we lived in a world where nuclear energy was only used for peaceful purposes, so we did not have to have nuclear weapons to shuffle around the countryside. However, that is not the case. In addition, I want to remind y'all that the US has been transporting those stores of nuclear devices to a secure facility where they are being disassembled. Would you prefer that the DOD build a recycling plant a few blocks down from the local high-school and do the work at the storage location of the warheads? I would think not....I would rather see them transported to a recycling facility that is experienced and out of the population dense areas of the USA.
pleasant dreams
YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
What exactly is the point of this piece? To inform us that heavily armoured and secured nuclear cargo moves across the U.S, is that such a massive surprise? 'Tom Clements' is not a 'nuclear security watchdog', he is an anti nuclear activist, working for the heavily anti nuclear lobby group called Friends of the Earth. It is extremely disingenuous to present him as an expert, by definition he has no clue about the kind of security concerns involved. His comments suggest that the 'nuclear weapons on the highway' are armed devices that would go off if the driver goes in the wrong lane or takes a sharp turn. A terrorist capable of breaking through the kind of defences these trucks have would be able to cause a lot more damage by directing those efforts towards the nearest busy downtown area. There is nothing to suggest that there was any security breach in any of the incidents mentioned, that the security arrangements didn't work as intended and that any lives were put at risk.
I hope they have their own cleanup and recovery team following them at all times. Since the pictures show a truck with no placards, any normal Emergency Services team must be deemed expendable.
Some weird setup for a Tom Clancy or 24 plot.
I would be a lot more worried about the tankers transporting chlorine or any other kind of hazardous aggressive material. The nuclear material is usually contained very well to withstand normal accidents.
And not much is likely to happen if a nuclear warhead was involved in an accident since it requires a detonator which should have been removed before transport if proper procedures have been followed.
The thing you should worry about the most is if someone decides to hijack the cargo. Or the newspaper headlines printing that you had an accident involving a warhead.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Or does this sound exactly like a prequel to Blast Corps for the Nintendo 64?
Anybody remember the Atlantic story from a while ago about Pakistan transporting its nukes?
It was presented as "Oh noes, they move their nukes in ordinary trucks instead of military convoys. Maybe we should invade them and secure their arsenal."
Lo and behold, the DoE is using the same method in the US.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Total war on big scale hasn't happened since WW2. No other war has come anywhere close with the scale of casualties and destruction. How high is the chance that USA and USSR would have fought it out on full scale if not for nuclear weapons? Or else, how high is the chance that USSR would have overran western Europe and USA wouldn't have been able to do much about it.
There has been no major war between world powers, and we have nuclear weapons to thank for that. No matter how much we hate them.
--Coder
This the plot of an old NCIS LA episode... The only way Hollywood could come up with a way to realistically steal a nuke was to have it be an inside job and even then it was just to manipulate the stock market. Even then I highly doubt they ship live nukes with the detonator installed via trucks. If they're gonna move live fully armed nukes they'll strap them to a bomber I know the anti-nuke crowd hate the DOE and the military but they're aren't recklessly stupid. Everyone knows they only do stupid shit when the Air Force puts them on bombers.
I take it neither you or the (somewhat sensationalist) gp have any inkling of just how well physically protected the load is in these situations?
Uranium hexafluride is nasty stuff just in chemical terms.
So is Sodium Chloride.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
If the largest stockpiler of nuclear weapons left in the world managed to turn only itself into a gigantic glass parking lot through an accident ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Regarding the detonating bit - even if there was an accident and the detonator were left on (we'll ignore malice for the moment), it'd be more likely to prevent the bomb from ever exploding "interestinglyl" without some serious extra work, than to make it accidentally explode. One of the things I learned in first year physics - in general, once uranium gets to critical mass or above, it explodes quickly, and without a lot of external pressure, set up "just right", the explosion won't be enough to do more than destroy a small room. In such an accident, the detonator (itself a bomb), would do more damage, I think.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Rick Santorum is president of a country criss-crossed by trucks hauling nukes, day and night. Oh thou emblems of uselessness.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Why would I care? I'd be dead :)
To quote Epicurus: When we are, Death is not; When Death is, we are not.
Not that live nuclear weapons or components can't be misplaced or anything.
http://www.ksla.com/story/16955777/no-nukes-at-bafb-global-strikes-home
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_nuclear_weapons_incident
Nothing is 100% safe, but I suspect the lethal dose of common salt is somewhat higher.
As in, if there was enough to kill you you'd be able to see it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Comedian / Protestor Mark Thomas assists one of the UK trains carrying flasks of nuclear material over a level crossing.
:o)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdBT6tGsGLY
We are more laid back in the UK. No US style special ops truckers armed to the teeth for us
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
For civiil nuclear transport anyway, don't know about weapons. Here's a video of them testing one of the nuclear containers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJflu7z4QyI
Even if that weren't bullshit according to the treaty, it is a completely ridiculous method to circumvent it. The only use (if such) of massive nuclear weapon arsenals is to be capable of launching them at a moment's notice in response to an attack. A nuke that is being carried around in a truck intimidates zero people, except your own citizens if they find out you're moving weapons of mass destruction right through their neighborhood. If the military found itself in a situation where those nukes in transit would make a difference, it would be far too late.
Hypothetically, could terrorists or a determined government such as the Iranians steal nuclear weapons from a convoy like this?
Well, thinking about the problem step by step. How COULD an evil entity with a lot of resources (but not enough resources to make a bomb from scratch) steal a nuke?
First, they have to KNOW which convoy has the actual warheads, versus merely parts. Theoretically, secretly placed cameras outside the military bases known to have nukes being sent for disassembly could spot a convoy. If the convoys are multiple trucks in a row, alone with obvious escort vehicles, then MAYBE those are the ones with the bombs.
This is where the U.S. government might or might not be sneaky about it. One obvious trick would be to use decoy convoys that are heavily armed and escorted, and then to slip the truck with the actual warheads in with a bunch of trucks leaving the post returning from food deliveries. And to space the unmarked escort vehicles out so that it isn't obvious which truck they are protecting.
And remember, from the point of view of the Iranian terrorists, this is a trick that could only work once. Once they try to steal a bomb, the U.S. government would probably just cease transporting nukes by road at all, forever.
So they have to KNOW which truck it is. So they need a traitor, no other way. That would probably be difficult. If some sleeper agent tried to enlist tommorow, and to steer their career towards this area of the military, what are the chances they would succeed? I have no idea, but I am guessing that the military assigns people to sensitive positions like this with some degree of randomness. The terrorist sleeper agent could easily end up, even if they passed all the security checks, somewhere completely unrelated.
Perhaps they could replace a civilian contractor working on the post somewhere close enough to plant a bug or something. Dunno.
Ok, so the terrorists somehow know which truck. Now they need to stop the truck. They have to get ahead of it and set up an ambush.
Here's where this is somewhat plausible : in some rural stretch of road, far away from a populated area or military base, with terrain on either side of the road unable to support a truck, the terrorists set up their ambush. They stage an accident to cause the trucks to stop, and use fifty caliber or 20 millimeter rifles to disable the engines of the trucks. They then need enough shooters to win a gunbattle against the escorts AND the QRF. Who have heavy weapons and special forces training.
How many might it take? 50 men? A hundred? And all of them have to keep quiet until the attack. NONE of them would survive the retaliation, participating in something like this would be a guaranteed life prison sentence or death penalty. Probably the death penalty.
Anyways, the terrorists use armor piecing ammo from 50 caliber or 20 millimeter rifles to shoot through the armor of all the escort vehicles and the trucks. They attempt to jam the radios used by the escorts. They now have to somehow recover the warheads.
This is where surprises come in. How about a claymore mine embedded in the side of one of the trailers? Or some other defense? What if these convoys are escorted by attack helicopters? There's a lot of things that a traitor might not necessarily know about.
Ok, so they do manage to get to the trailers, and they use shaped charges to slice through the armored metal of the trailers. They find a warhead, and they have a cargo lift to remove it.
How long does this take? The moment the word gets out, EVERY available resources, every soldier, every jet, every cop, everything is going to be mobilized to stop these people. But this does take time, and if the terrorists are well equipped with lifting equipment and the right tools, they might manage to load the bombs up and attempt their escape. This is where even 1 surviving special forces commando trucker could make a difference, right out of a movie like Under Siege 2. I c
Albert Einstein said: "The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."
He also said that if he had known the Nazis would not make atomic bombs, he never would have worked on them. Of course, now even digital watches (or at least smartphones) have enough computer power to design the essence of atomic weapons...
Here is a website by psychiatrist Donald Pet about moving to that newer way of thinking we need:
http://anwot.org/
Here is related stuff I have written: ... These militaristic socio-economic ironies would be hilarious if they were not so deadly serious. ..."
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html
"Nuclear weapons are ironic because they are about using space age systems to fight over oil and land. Why not just use advanced materials as found in nuclear missiles to make renewable energy sources (like windmills or solar panels) to replace oil, or why not use rocketry to move into space by building space habitats for more land?
Sometimes when you find ourself in a hole and you don't want to be there, the best thing to do is stop digging and start thinking in a new way about how you got there and how to get out.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Thank you! That is why the US nukes are safe from attack. Anyone who wants to grab nuclear material will head to the easiest source: the UK.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Yup, this article is just more anti-nuclear scaremongering.
Just wait, next thing we know Greenpeace will be setting up roadblocks.
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
A little like a fallacy. since 90k lb. loads require special "lowboy" trailers with extra sets of tires and believe me, you notice these.
Speaking as a shipping professional with more experience than many of you have in breathing, it's not hard to put two plus two together.
1. During anytime of day in any metropolitan area, the same local truck drivers network the city on sameish routes. These guys note who is out and anything strange they see like funny looking trailers pulled by drivers they don't recognise.
2.This whole concept deals with a government bureaucracy doing something outside an office and claiming some degree of success in their efforts. Bullshit! See #1.
3. Unless they got an experienced driver and trained him to be a Fed, his driving is going to stand out to other drivers like a neon sign that says IDIOT to other experienced drivers.
4. Martin Mariettas payloaders are going to have to be dissembled to load anyway. If it's big it will go on a flatbed with a "box-tent-cover or just a tarp. Not too subtle. If it's small and can be forklifted in, it can go in a box trailer and be hidden.
5. The government is made of bigger bunglers than you work with, they did after all have to choose an employer that seldom fires for anything just to have a job for more than a week.
So, you see, this story is just so much gov.public image meant to lul you into that secure feeling. Working?
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
They would probably give him a medal for that. 'Cause if he had the blood of some apocalyptic explosions on his hands, it would mean that those killed explosions wouldn't be around to have our blood on their hands, or whatever thing explosions have instead of hands...shockwaves, perhaps?
Ezekiel 23:20
What if you got it in your eyes, then there would be enough to kill you and _YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE IT_.
This Saturday on FOX Kids, it's the all new Nuclear Truckers, followed by Swamp Thing!
Is that a fully assembled bomb, or just the core plutonium pit (or whatever they use these days)?
The weapons are carried in armoured articulated lorries, but they are accompanied by escorts from the police, ...
That's one hell of a job! And you Brits do it with such class! Not only do you get escorts, but the police provide them for you!
But really. It is really necessary for the nuclear haulers to have, to put it delicately, female company (or male) on the road? Can't they wait until the nukes are delivered?
a) NaCL does not decompose to HF Gas when exposed to moisture, and HydroFluoric Acid is VERY corrosive
b) NaCl is not radioactive
Ain't the same hazard level here.
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
I remember seeing what was obviously a nuclear convoy in Wyoming in 1992. There were four or five slightly oversized 18-wheelers with SAC license plates. In front and behind and between each of them were armored cars with police lights and machine guns. Overhead there was a helicopter. They were just pulling on, and I ended up cutting into the middle of the convoy briefly so that one of the armored cars could move up to the front.
They were traveling somewhat slowly, probably 50mph, so I lost sight of them fairly quickly, but a ways on ahead was another armored car, and I noticed another helicopter scouting ahead. Further on ahead I saw a tow truck removing a disabled car.
That was an interesting day.
"Were nuke truckers involved in a UFO crash in Southern California?"
Seeing that alone was worth the read.
My eyes...the goggles do nothing!
Actually even if you were to replace your entire eye with common salt it probably wouldn't kill you as long as you don't leave it there for hours/days. However, it would sting like a bitch...
you see those trucks with the big crucibles by the hundreds near gary indiana.
40 thousand points of bridge-melting goodness on a truck!
I would pay good money to see that. If you think the FBI doesn't have a sense of humor, wait until you see the guys at OST.
While I cannot judge the likelihood of all the events you mentioned I think it would make an awesome movie plot.
No, he does have a fair point. Much like carrying the nuclear football, you have to keep in mind that some people are gonna wanna steal it and given the nature of the object they likely don't have any qualms about killing you for it.
Get a sense of humor.
A Japanese artist has assembled a map of the world with a moving timeline showing the location and relative scale of each nuclear detonation from 1945 to 1998
It also has a score card,of who is responsible for each detonation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lquok4Pdk
fascinating
da da da dum indeed.
no photos? :(
Be or ben't
The map shows a route going through there, but no military bases or plants/labs.
sic transit gloria mundi
ICBMs are expensive. Very expensive. And carrying conventional payload they wouldn't be able to do much damage, as they aren't that accurate.
I do agree that USSR didn't have the capability to invade America, but they certainly had the ability and the will to overrun Western Europe- and arguably they still do. I doubt USA had the capability to invade European part of USSR, but I think invasion of Vladivostok would have been possible.
Our mentality was shaped by the threat of nuclear war, so we don't even consider the war between major powers. Maybe the leaders would have been much more hawkish over the last 70 years without this threat? Given that due to human errors and miscommunication we almost came to "hot" war even with nuclear weapons on several occasions, it's much more likely the war would have broken out without them.
Anyway, back on topic. I think this article is mainly anti-nuclear scare mongering. I don't see much wrong with transporting nuclear materials and weapons with trucks, as long as appropriate precautions are taken. And it looks like they are being taken. And I really doubt there are enough terrorist with enough training and equipment on US soil to mount a successful attack and steal nuclear materials or weapons and get away with them.
--Coder
This story isn't even CLOSE to what happened in 'Broken Arrow'. You nerds never cease to astound me.
Tri-State Trucking in Joplin Missouri hauls them around all the time....big whoop. Same thing with living near a nuke plant or a nuke silo...never bothered me growing up.
For the budget of Iraq war, we could have had a functional colony on Mars RIGHT NOW. For the price of stimulus package, how high a percentage of our economy would be running on renewable energy?
Free Market is a TERRIBLE way to distribute resources. It optimizes corporate profits and personal greed and rewards quarter thinking. It does not promote advancement of society, but only of small number of people. Free Market does NOT encourage investment in risky long term enterprises. And by doing hard and risky long term projects is how we can advance the humanity. Corporate governorship is all about preserving profits and status quo- they will not invest in disruptive technology and will interfere with others trying to emerge any technology that threatens them. And we need disruptive technologies if we are going to survive next 100 years when we run out of cheap oil and easily accessible freshwater, and agriculture becomes much much more difficult.
I don't know how the world should be governed, but it should definitely not be governed by corporate lobbyism.
--Coder
Michael Bay is that you?
They've been transporting Warheards across the us in military convoys for decades. My dad had a funny story about that one time: He was driving a warhead with a no-stop policy. Well, a local Sheriff decided that he was going to pull the convoy over. Not a smart move. After about 20 minutes of slow speed chase, the sheriff pulls a head of the convoy with his lights on, speakers blaring "pull over now!" My dad radios his superior, who responds with two words: "Ditch em". So a giant military truck speeds up and rams the back of the cruiser, instantly causing him to turn to the side, and then the truck pushes him into a nearby ditch (pretty deep embankment, he would need a tow to get out). My dad calls the local police about the ditched car and keeps driving on.
Yes, on I-25 rolling between Cheyenne and Denver. There's other cues... I usually get way ahead, LOL!
The more prevalent ones on that stretch of Interstate, however, are Yucca Flats bound trucks with 3-4 containers of nuclear waste. Those are obvious, because the containers have the radioactivity symbol in big bold yellow on them.
I don't drive for a living anymore, but the last time I did some driving work, about a month ago, there was one Yucca Flats truck southbound on the stretch. So I bet there many more than one a day from that observation.
You thought the interstate highway system was built for civilian purposes?
A bunch of ignorant fucks spreading FUD against something they fear and don't understand.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
They all have Green Hair
All cows eat grass!
Crap, people. If y'all knew half the stuff that's actually in those trailers and tankers cruisin' down the highway at north of 90 MPH, you would run for the nearest bomb shelter and never, ever set wheels on the interstates again. The Pentagon, OSS, CIA and the rest all do their level best to keep the populace from panicking by shipping everything from nerve gas to hydrogen bombs in unmarked semi trailers, but why do you think the feds built the interstates in the first place?
Good gawd, y'all. Grow up.
"b) NaCl is not radioactive"
But your granite countertops and or any granite buildings you go into and or any granite mountain you happen to be near is.
Uranium is just not that radioactive. It isn't like cobalt 60 or any of the real scary stuff.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Never use the Chronosphere on them. It ends badly. Trust me!
Signed: The losing side.
Life is not for the lazy.
"It breaths. You die."
This would add a whole new wrinkle to "Ice Road Truckers"
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Speak for yourself, all my salt is made twice a day with fresh Sodium-24.
No, but if NaCL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client) ever violates web standards, it may be more hazardous!
Is this just a way to get extra money to buddies through the revolving door or is there some rational reason for using ex-military/contractors instead of current military/national guard?
Back in the early 90's....I was in the Marine Corps working security on a Naval nuclear facility in Charleston, SC. We would provide security (while on base) for these trucks...I think we used to call them SST's (Safe secure trucks). I recall the drivers and security with them being Dept Of Energy couriers. Or cowboys (some wore cowboy hats) as we called them as they got to carry weapons of choice, which seemed to be uzi's. We would also provide security when the Navy pulled missiles out of the subs or when subs pulled into dry dock to be refueled. Its quite a site to see a sub on bricks.... I also remember riding home for leave on weekend and seeing one of these trucks rolling on either I-26 or I-40....with its convoy of suburbans....
Those ACME trailers using CRST's logo type? Not suspicious at all.
The main push for the Interstate Highway System was to provide the military access to roads they deemed critical for national defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_auxiliary_Interstate_Highways
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Honestly, he should be more afraid of a truck full of bananas. http://xkcd.com/radiation/
like its accurate. UF6 is an intermediate stage of the uranium between the 'yellowcake' form --- its what you stick into your enrichment process. its like saying flour is "used in the process of making bread". no, flour is what the bread is made of!
since you believe 'iranian terrorists' are trying to steal nuclear warheads from the middle of the nebraska highways, im guessing you also believe in the free market. so i have to ask you, why cant we just let the invisible hand take care of all these problems?
arent most bombs uranium nowdays?
In a previous job (one where I was paid very little, lived in the desert, and wore a uniform to work) I worked within spitting distance of the concrete pad where they loaded and unloaded the OST trailers. I won't go into detail, but the safety measures that prevent unauthorized persons from accessing the trailer contents are serious enough that I wouldn't wish to ever be on the authorized crew that loads and unloads them.
Also, you can sometimes tell that the plain jane tractor trailer is a SST (Safe, Secure Transport) because it's surrounded by a convoy of Suburbans with a wide variety of antennae, and a full load of US Marshals armed to the teeth. They don't go anywhere without that.
They can flip 'em over in ice storms all day for all I care. Any group who wants to can try to steal the cargo for all I care. I have zero worries about the contents of these vehicles. They are safer than just about anything else in the world.
the guy likes to roll with an entourage, or so im told.
Radiation aside, Uranium and many of its compounds are chemically toxic. Fail.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Do not rub salt (or Uranium Hexaflouride) into remaining eye.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
They certainly do not have escorts round Oak Ridge. You are hard pressed to distinguish a truck hauling nuclear material from one hauling widgets. Which is the point. About the only difference is in the antenna arrays on the cab used to maintain constant contact with dispatch.
But my eyes would water and it'd run down my face and then I'd be able to taste it.
That's why God didn't put your mouth above your eyes, obviously. In case you get a lethal does of salt right in the mush.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Naw, I'm just happy to see you, that's all.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Who remembers the 1980s tv show 'The Highwayman' ?
I seem to remember in one of the episodes, he was actually transporting stuff (and I think it was nuclear), rather than being the unstealthiest police officer driving a semi that converted into a helicopter.
(it was like Knight Rider crossed with MASK)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Not quite true. Bees and oil and other materials don't emit radiation. Nuclear warheads and uranium do. Of course, the question is how much, but I imagine someone driving these trucks full-time will get a higher annual radiation exposure than average people.
I think you're confusing a couple of things. There are two types of bombs, either uranium or plutonium, and I'm not sure they even make the first kind anymore (not that we could know). With uranium, if you assemble a sufficiently large sphere if near-100% U-235, it will spontaneously explode, bomb-like, without anything more. The original uranium-type bombs used to keep the uranium in to separate, sub-critical masses until the time of detonation, and then had a neutron gun to set it off, the purpose of which was only to make it so you could be assured of detonation at the right time (and thus altitude) rather than randomly at any point after the critical mass is assembled. Which is, I think, why we probably don't make those anymore -- who the hell wants to produce a nuclear bomb in a way that makes it easier for it to go off by accident? (It's also a lot less fuel-efficient to make them that way, because U-235 is only 0.7% of natural uranium, whereas the U-238 that they make Pu-239 out of is 99.3% of natural uranium.)
The plutonium designs don't suffer from the same problem because no amount of plutonium will spontaneously explode. To get a plutonium bomb to explode you have to compress the plutonium with high explosives. If you remove the charges from the core, the plutonium is just a hunk of metal. You can stack them a thousand high and shoot at them with anti-tank rounds and nothing will happen, because to go off they need high explosives to surround them on all sides and all detonate at once.
>Nuclear warheads and uranium don't just up and spontaneously explode y'know.
Look a child could be hurt. Won't someone think of the children?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
When "at the same time" resolves to pretty much exactly the same wavefront within +/- femtoseconds (10e-15), and where said device and design absolutely has to work the first time and the only time, and you have zero testing opportunity, and even the length and placement and coupling of the wires affects the timing, yeah, actually, it is that hard to replicate. If the timing is insufficient to the task, the implosion is misshapen, and that generally means the weapon won't go critical -- you just end up with a bunch of bomb debris.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Oddly, so are bananas under the right conditions.
In regards to your sig, the SQL query should be asking two tables "mind if I join you", unless you're planning on joining the table to itself.
Hmmm, we'll put some sodium chloride in your hand then have you breath some uranium hexaflouride and you let us know how they compare.
Seriously? The natural radioactivity in granite is a much less than the radioactivity in weapons grade plutonium, uranium and tritium.
All of this sounds insanely expensive for weapons we have no reasonable justification to need in the current numbers. Remember when the gop was screaming the debt was the most important thing? Why aren't they screaming to reduce the number of nukes the US has?
Please remember that the United States Interstate Highway System (IHS) was designed and built specifically to provide the military with a means to quickly and efficiently move military assets and supplies around the country. It's awesome that school buses, soccer moms, and millions of idiots with cellphones permanently implanted in their faces also get the priveledge to use the same IHS to get around quickly as a side benefit. The military gets first use. If you're concerned about the risks of sharing the highway with a heavily armored truck carrying a small nuclear payload, I can highly recommend the hundreds of thousands of miles of secondary highways as an alternative. You might not get around quite as fast, but the drive is often far more scenic, and the food more appealing.
Not exactly true (not sure what you mean by "neutron gun" either). The original U235 bombs could go critical just by having sufficient mass in the correct geometry. As long as enough neutrons didn't escape (or were reflected back) you could have criticality. We don't make them anymore because they are inefficient. Big uranium bombs will vaporize a lot of the fuel before it has a chance to participate in the reaction. U235 is also very difficult to purify and we have the Teller–Ulam based hydrogen bombs now anyway.
Plutonium will also go critical in the correct configuration and mass, just like U235. Sure you can shoot a block of it, same goes for U235. Compressing it with explosives is just a way to reduce a hollow sphere into a critical sphere (with a neutron trigger/booster in the middle).
"Plutonium is considered impractical for the gun method because of early triggering due to Pu-240 contamination and due to its time constant for prompt critical fission being much shorter than that of U-235." In other words it would go critical before the entire slug entered the target.
Plutonium can go critical in the right configuration (a solid sphere) just like U235. Subcritical Pu accidents have happened.
"On 21 August 1945, Los Alamos scientist Harry K. Daghlian, Jr. suffered fatal radiation poisoning after accidentally dropping a tungsten carbide brick onto a sphere of plutonium, which was later nicknamed the demon core. The brick acted as a neutron reflector, bringing the mass to criticality. This was the first known criticality accident causing a fatality."
"On 21 May 1946, another Los Alamos scientist, Louis Slotin, accidentally irradiated himself during a similar incident using the very same sphere of plutonium responsible for the Daghlian accident. Slotin surrounded the plutonium sphere with two hemispherical cups of neutron reflecting material; one above and a larger one below. He was using a screwdriver to keep the cups slightly apart which kept the assembly subcritical. When the screwdriver accidentally slipped, the cups closed completely around the plutonium sending the assembly supercritical. Immediately realizing what had happened, he quickly disassembled the device, likely saving the lives of seven fellow scientists nearby. Slotin succumbed to radiation poisoning nine days later."
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Maybe, but it's not half a billion people, and they're not called "Muzzies". Those were the points I was referring to. And, to be honest, I doubt anyone wants to steal such a weapon, as it would be a pointless task. How are they going to use it? Crack it open for the sweet, sweet plutonium? Make the world's most obvious dirty bomb? It doesn't really make much sense.
Hiding it in plain sight is actually a smart way to do it. No one is going to protest plain white trucks as long as they don't announce anything. Diplomats have used this strategy for ages. You can either try to make your message super secure and put labels all over it saying "top secret" or you can just bury it in a mass of boring daily updates, visa requests, etc.
The only problem they could really have is with other government agencies not being in the loop. I wouldn't be surprised if there were remotely controlled radiation sensors on some highways to detect the gamma rays from something like this (I know they have them at international ports of entry). They get an alert and then they are freaking out over it. Then there are major accidents that even if the contents are safe would make for bad publicity.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I'd think the Hazmat 7 Radioactive would give them away, unless the government is somehow excluded from that.
Heh, hazmat - I remember grading hazmat trucker papers (a temp job) and one guy got a 2/100. 20 questions (40 points, 2 each) were True/False - how the f*ck do you get a TWO on that test?! I got 78/100 (a passing grade) when I took the test for giggles, since I had to sit in the room watching the class for cheaters anyway - and I hadn't been to any of the class lectures.
So is oxygen at high partial pressures.
But speaking of heavy metals, most of them are chemically pretty toxic. Chelate them out of the bloodstream for good health!
I grew up with 'em, back when North Dakota was the world's third largest nuclear power. back in the day, you'd know a Minuteman III carrier or truck of "special material" was going by thanks to the lead and chase trucks in USAF blue.
the jet helicopters overhead within 12 miles at all times had nothing to do with it at all, no, sirree.
there was a time in 79 when my news director and I were sitting on the tailgate of a pickup on the base, waiting for the PR handlers to take us to a story, when I looked around to see a large cone with a pressure gauge on it in the center of the pickup bed. better part of valor was to look away and keep my big ol' 40 pound camera in my lap.
only time I've been closer to The Devil (tm) was a rare tour of a power plant in which we could use the catwalk, walk past the spent fuel pool, and look almost to the bottom of the pressure vessel of a GE nuclear reactor.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
wasn't this the start of the plot to Broken Arrow?
So we don't like these things. We don't want them to have to exist, but they do. And they've got to be moved around, which means over the roads we have.
Why do they have to be moved at all? I've yet to see an explanation of this. Is there a compelling reason for this or is it just another case of "We've always done it this way" and a reason that may have been valid 50-60 years ago no longer is but nobody questions it?
the decepticons are on the move!
I smell a reboot of the Cannonball Run franchise!
Someone get C.W.McCall on the line!
Just to be clear, uranium hexafluoride is used in the process of enriching uranium via gaseous diffusion, and as the article states there have been some accidents involving trucks carrying canisters of it. But by the time it's in a warhead it's back in metal form.
But what if they weren't?! Then we'd all die! Including the children!
Dear God, won't somebody think of the children!
Especially if the brakes are bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30,000_Pounds_of_Bananas#Incident
No, really, it's a total non-issue if accept that we have and transport nuclear devices.
These things are heavily monitored, if they vary from their designated route or timetable, a response team, well, responds.
They have panic buttons, same thing if that is triggered.
Yet again if contact is lost.
And they've been doing it for over 40 years.
Also, if you have been watching too much Hollywood schlock (pretty much everything they make), nukes do NOT go nuclear by accident. The worst thing you can get is a dirty explosion of the normal variety. Still something you don't want, but it's not taking out a town, just maybe a block, or half a block, less if your town has those really big blocks.
Worried about glowing in the dark if one of those things drives by you? Don't. Those things are so heavily shielded you can use them as radiation shield from other sources. No joke. So again, where Hollywood shows you detecting nukes with a Geiger counter, it's not going to happen. Unless it's a piece of crap engineering by a suicide group, if you run a Geiger counter over a nuke, it will just show the normal background radiation, if you run it under the nuke, it will drop, by a LOT. Like I said, Hollywood is full of it. You want something to gauge it by? Hows, this. Have you ever been in a car wreck? Statistics say you probably have. I've been a passenger in 10 wrecks in my life, a driver in 2. (Fortunately none have been my fault.) So, how many of those exploded? None... Ok, how many caught fire? None? Yeah, that's what I thought. If you go by Hollywood, having a shopping cart roll into a trashcan has at least a 50% chance to cause a fiery explosion.
If you've taken classes on nuclear war (They exist, I took mine in High school the semester the University decided to copy it, with the teachers permission and assistance.) or have looked into this stuff with available documentation (Try the library, not Herbpolitics.web or Conspiracy.tfh) you'd already know this. Bugger the governments propaganda, it's pure science, from before the Manhattan Project right through to now and tomorrow.
Sorry, I'm rather sore about the false portrayals of a real issue by fools, politicians, and the ignorant. Sure, I don't know a lot on the subject, but I know volumes more than those jerks.
not sure what you mean by "neutron gun"
I imagine it's probably the same thing as you mean by "neutron trigger/booster." I admit that the last time I really read up on the early designs was several years ago, so I could be misremembering the name.
Plutonium will also go critical in the correct configuration and mass, just like U235. Sure you can shoot a block of it, same goes for U235. Compressing it with explosives is just a way to reduce a hollow sphere into a critical sphere (with a neutron trigger/booster in the middle).
Right, but what I'm saying is that it isn't enough to just compress it somehow. You have to compress it just right. So if you remove the charges but then manage to smash your truck into an overpass, the thing isn't going to go off as a result of the impact.
I would also admit that I probably shouldn't have said "nothing will happen" if you assemble a lot of plutonium in the same place. There is a difference between "critical" and "bye bye city," and I only meant that you don't easily get the latter by accident (unlike uranium). You have criticality in a normally-operating power reactor, for example, but no boom. Which is what you're talking about with criticality accidents -- those people were killed by radiation spikes caused by criticality accidents, not explosions. It would be like standing next to an operating power reactor with no shielding. (I would also point out that when you bring in the neutron reflectors, all bets are off.)
Materials of far greater toxicity are transported on trains and trucks in far less robust containers far more often.
- T
Honestly, this is why we have railroads.
Kriston
Only about as toxic as lead according to the second google hit. I guess uranium hexafluoride is more toxic, but I couldn't find any comparisons that I understood.
For the moment, I'm more worried about mercury being dumped in the river by companies than the government driving uranium around, crashing, and poisoning me.
I actually live in one of the cities there's a route through, and the other day when driving near the interstate my Polimaster PM1703 scintillation counter (gamma radiation only) went nuts. I figured it was a radiotherapy patient or moly cow delivery or something, but wasn't aware of this. I know uranium hexaflouride can be pretty hot in terms of gamma radiation, but is the gamma from a warhead something you can measure at any distance with a scintillation counter?
Shouldn't they also be displaying HAZMAT placards, or do they get an exemption?
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
So when can we expect the reality show?
It was the dark of the moon on the sixth of June in a Kenworth pullin logs ...
...
Ah, Rubber Duck, this is Sodbuster. C'mon back?
Yeah, ten-four Sodbuster.
Listen, ya wanna put that microbus in behind that suicide jockey?
Yeah he's haulin' NUKES and he needs all the help he can get
If you aren't part of the solution, then there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
To be strapped to a 45 tonne rolling nuke reactor at 6am?
troll? how is this a troll? It's less trollish than most comments on here...
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Since chance would give him 50/100, it seems like he was trying to game the test. If you don't know anything it's just as hard to get all but one wrong as it is to get all but one right.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Short answer: Logistics. Among other things, atomic weapons have a shelf-life. They have to be torn down and refurbished every so many years. So they have to be shipped from the operational ready location (air base, missile silo, aircraft carrier, submarine base, etc.) to the reprocessing site, then back. Also just like any other military or business equipment inventory, due to various changes in plans or the operational environment, these things need to be moved around to be available when they might be needed.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Without the 'casings' for the 'materiel'....
Dihydrogen monoxide is even deadlier.
Ignorant nonscientific summarye alert.
There is absolutely no enrichment of uraniumhexaflouride for bombs. None. Zip. Zilch. It's not necessary. There is a positive glut of highly enriched uranium for making bombs, so there is both no need to enrich any and no facilities exist in the Americas even do this. All the enrichment facilities in the West only make low enriched uranium, or fuel grade. You can not make bombs with this, It can not explode, it's just not physically possible for 5% enriched uranium (which is the high end of fuel grade) to be made into a bomb. UF6 on the roads today is either not enriched at all, it's just natural uranium with fluoride on it's way to an enrichment facility, or it's post enrichment and on its way to be made into fuel pellets. The only hazard from UF6 is the FLOURIDE not the Uranium! And that just an inhalation hazard that you can run away from, it's not radioactive either. In either case UF6 is NOT a bomb, it can't explode, nor can the UF6 on the roads be made into a bomb.
Michael Bay is that you?
When I read "Nuclear Truckers" I instantly thought it would be a B grade action movie.
this only confirms my suspicion.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I feel for you, I had to take a similar Hazmat class. Coffee don't help that kind of bored to death.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
It would have to be a verry overbuilt van( reinforced like a lowboy) to handle weight like that .That would stick out!
I doubt there would be proper D.O.T. markings or any indication that this carrys anything but babyfood.Escort is in doubt,unless well hidden.
Travelling the same route on a regular schedule, experienced drivers might spot a "military exp." driver as a noob on the streets, but other than cracking wise on the radio, I don't see a problem.
Not sure why there are troll mods on us in this thread. Geeks threatened by truckspeak? Allergies to shipping warehouses?
Illiteracy? Constipation?
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
My money's on exempt.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I am interested in what action movie would be "A grade" since by definition a action movie is well.. not really driven by plot.
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
About as bad as lead. Now the hexafluoride is pretty nasty but so are a lot of things being trucked around.
I was attacking just the radiation boogie man with a few facts.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Uranium is just not that radioactive. It isn't like cobalt 60 or any of the real scary stuff.
Balthorium-G.
Thank you! That is why the US nukes are safe from attack. Anyone who wants to grab nuclear material will head to the easiest source: the UK.
Actually we have a really advanced counter-intelligence operation running when we move nukes on the rail network. The secret government agency MI9, nicknamed "Network Rail", makes sure terrorists can never know when a train will arrive at a certain place by publishing dis-information called "timetables" and then deliberately not sticking to them.
Lots of stuff moves over the road, far more valuable or dangerous to the locals than disabled nuclear warheads. And yes, the geeks would rather not know. That's part of why truckers keep their mouths shut - even when they know what they're hauling. Do you have any idea how many dollars worth of laptops, iPads or - God forbid - iPhones fits in a 24' trailer? You may as well be hauling pallets of $20 bills. And we all now know what a load of 80:0:20 will do to a federal building when mixed with diesel and properly kicked off. Loose lips get your load jacked.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Lol , truckers keep their mouths shut. .Lol , can't trust gov't picked contractors to get the job done right, wallowing in all that extra money they got. They're just too distracted.
Well, maybe if that is the present load they got. Certainly not if it was in their history.
Smart truckers got a gun stashed anyway. Esp. handy for picking up loads from the Jersey docks. I got stories.
Yeah I know all about more hazardous stuff, more immediate threat is a better way to describe it.
Loose lips aren't even on the radar when you could just follow suspect trucks from gov't facilities like say, the ****** ******** warehouses at **** ********, ** from whence they spring forth with finished product. Kind of a well, duh sort of solution for anyone wanting to collect one of their own.
I think I'd be more interested in pallets of $20s and fund the building of my own missiles
But then again, I'd rather love than war so I'd blow it all a'whorin I'm sure.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Years ago I worked for a company that was near a major nuclear bomb maker. (yes, everybody knew what they did there, but it was good work) Anyway, My boss got the opportunity to bid on building some boxes to haul some nuclear shells (maybe bombs, maybe not) and we built them to incredibly tight spec. Brass screws on 2 inch centers, clear lodgepole pine, all dimensions = or - 1/16" etc. In the end they took our prototype, used a crane to raise it 60 feet in the air and drop it so that it landed on a corner of the box. Then they studied the results and added a few screws on tighter centers on the corners and a different adhesive for the rubber beds that the .... well whatever they were... would rest during transport.
The boss said that we got the job (ten boxes or something, a few thousand dollars a piece) because we had the strongest boxes and the tightest results. I just kept thinking about the truck driving that shit around, like where does it go with warheads?
Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.