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Why Making Facebook Private Won't Protect You

itwbennett writes "Facebook's privacy settings, such as they are, don't hold up in the face of prospective employers who demand to see applicants' profiles. In an MSNBC report, Bob Sullivan found that 'in Maryland, job seekers applying to the state's Department of Corrections have been asked during interviews to log into their accounts and let an interviewer watch while the potential employee clicks through wall posts, friends, photos and anything else that might be found behind the privacy wall. ... Meanwhile, on the other side of the barbed wire fence, coaches and administrators are forcing student athletes to 'friend' them in order to monitor their activity of social sites."

46 of 550 comments (clear)

  1. An easy solution by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Never register there, period.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:An easy solution by PARENA · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Better solution if you do use Facebook: laugh at the people demanding to see what you're up to and walk away.

      --
      Here's the secret to immortality: ...oh dang, I forgot.
    2. Re:An easy solution by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Simple until a prospective employer asks you to log in.

      "I don't have an account." = Liar. Don't hire him.
      "I don't have an account." = Something to hide. Don't hire him.
      "I don't have an account." = Antisocial, won't work well with others. Don't hire him.

      "I don't have an account." = Has a brain, probably won't follow my instructions unquestioningly and take the blame for fuck ups silently. Don't hire him.

      The only winning move is not to play, and by that I mean walking out of interviews. Yes, easier said than done if you don't have a job, but hey... "They tree of liberty..." etc.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:An easy solution by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If it's a checkbox requirement, that won't help. "Don't have an account." "Right. Refused to log into Facebook. And now Google+, please."

      I'm not usually one for regulation, but this seems like an easy one. Employers must not require employees, contractors or applicants to interact with the company through any social networking service with their personal accounts. Employers must not require employees, contractors or applicants to utilize any social networking service with their personal accounts. Employers may require employees to interact with the company and use a company-provided account on a social networking service as part of their regular job. This could easily fit into a fair employment act.

      (I look forward to holes being poked in my prospective law.)

    4. Re:An easy solution by AGMW · · Score: 5, Insightful
      How about maintain two FB profiles, one for friends and one 'work safe' one with work colleagues on it. I know several of my friends kids maintain two profiles, one for friends and one for Mum & Dad and it works a treat!

      Of course, you could just ask them to login too, and you can skim through their page(s) whilst they do the same to yours! As others have said, simply tell them you're not on FB (or any of the others) but you are willing to start one up if it is a requirement.

      ... and my personal favourite, ask them to send you a friend request and you'll consider their application!

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    5. Re:An easy solution by MoonBuggy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I couldn't agree with you more, and wouldn't in a million years be willing to work for an organisation who would do something like that, it's still worth remembering that "choice" for many people boils down to "Give us your password or enjoy another six months of unemployment.". The issue is certainly exacerbated by the fact that plenty of people will roll over in any case, but the coercive element is what really keeps things like this going. That and the moronic managers who actually feel they have something to gain by this kind of thing, anyway.

      The question, of course, is what to do about it? That's where I'm stuck - it is a problem in itself, and an outright ban would solve it (assuming one feels that doing so is within the government's rights), but it would do nothing about the mentality that led here in the first place.

    6. Re:An easy solution by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the other hand, someone who assumes that everyone has a Facebook account is probably not someone I'd want to work for. Someone who delegates something as important as communication to a third party with no incentive (financial or otherwise) to act in their interests is probably not someone who is going to make good business decisions. They're likely to pick supplies based on what the salesman says or what everyone else is using rather than actually analysing what is the best tool for the job, for example.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:An easy solution by MoonBuggy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Practically that'll probably work (although it's by no means guaranteed), but it shows tacit approval of this invasive idiocy when the real response should make clear that what they are doing is wrong. Of course, that does assume the ability to walk away from a job opportunity without excessive repercussions...

    8. Re:An easy solution by gorzek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except an employer doesn't need you. They just need someone. If it's a highly competitive position, they aren't going to give a shit if you walk out--they've got 100 other candidates to pick from, and only a handful might pull the same "I'm not sharing my Facebook info" routine.

    9. Re:An easy solution by l3v1 · · Score: 3

      FB would probably be glad, 1.5-2x "increase" in users :)

      --
      I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
    10. Re:An easy solution by DrgnDancer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Of course, that does assume the ability to walk away from a job opportunity without excessive repercussions...

      Therein lies the problem, of course. My first reaction on seeing this was "Right, I'm not taking that job... I'm not even finishing the interview." Then I thought back to a few periods in my life where my ability to live without outside support had been put into serious question by lack of employment; and realized that while I may say that now, there have been times and may be times again where I needed the job. It's easy to be choosey from the relative comfort of a pretty good paying job. I have enough savings now that I'd be fine for several months at least in the event of job loss, so I don't see me being that desperate any time soon. But let's face it. Life's sometimes a bitch. Anything could happen.

      That said, I've held a security clearance, and known people with even higher security ratings; and even the Feds don't go demanding to see your Facebook profile. This shit is ridiculous.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    11. Re:An easy solution by pla · · Score: 5, Interesting

      How about maintain two FB profiles, one for friends and one 'work safe' one with work colleagues on it.

      Better solution - Maintain a fake 2nd page covered in information about how much you support various federally protected classes to which you may (or may not) actually belong.

      Then watch them squirm when they try to come up with any plausible reason to give the job to the boss' young white Christian nephew rather than to a reasonably qualified older gay Muslim African-American (whether in the "Samuel Jackson" or the "Dave Matthews" sense of the term).

      Asking for access to personal material opens a whole can of legal issues that most employers don't want, and it surprises me any would actively seek to subject themselves to such accusations. Hell, my own current employer actually has a policy banning managers from searching the intarwebs for job applicants, just to avoid these issues.

    12. Re:An easy solution by glop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, that's why we need to sue them for discrimination and any other statute that applies.
      We just need one high profile case that just settles and their lawyers will be advising all employers to stay clear from Facebook.
      And Facebook could help: they could update their terms of service to make it a violation of their terms of service to allow people to look at your Facebook page since it invades the privacy of the other users that trusted you.

      Facebook (or Google) has a role here. They can organize the defense of their users. If they don't, I expect people will have a bland Facebook page and do all their fun interaction on some other website that allows nicknames and doesn't let you search by public names...

    13. Re:An easy solution by duguk · · Score: 3, Funny

      Facebook has said its users should only have one account per physical human being, and if it catches people using two accounts it will delete one of them.

      They'll delete him? That's murder!

    14. Re:An easy solution by DrgnDancer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, employers need an employee more than you need them. If you're the only applicant, that certainly gives you an advantage. The chances that you're the only applicant are slim though, and much slimmer for a menial job that anyone can do like Walmart checker. For a highly skilled programmer or senior network/system/database admin position it might be said that the employer needs "you"; for a security guard or cashier's job the employers needs a body. If your body walks out, the next one will probably do just as well. What the article talks is some bullshit, and something should be done, but telling a guy with a mortgage and two kids to just "walk out" on a position when he's unemployed is bullshit too.

      These days I'm lucky enough to be in the pool of people with skills and experience sufficient that employers want "me", not just someone; but I've been in the position of guy who needs a job and needs it now. It's not a fun place to be.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    15. Re:An easy solution by Apothem · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This. A million times this. The fact that employers get away with this and the Feds can't really shows that there is something seriously wrong. Coporations can invade us day and night blatantly, but if you're a federal agency you might need to jump through some hoops first. Since when are corporations allowed to go above the law?

    16. Re:An easy solution by Oligonicella · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had one prospective employer ask if I had a FB account. "No. That's just too first grade for me."

      Interesting reaction. He really wanted to ask something, but he kind of shut down in three of four steps and went on to something else.

      No, I didn't take that job anyway. Other reasons. You can always out-wit the PHBs.

    17. Re:An easy solution by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I had one prospective employer ask if I had a FB account. "No. That's just too first grade for me."

      Interesting reaction. He really wanted to ask something, but he kind of shut down in three of four steps and went on to something else.

      No, I didn't take that job anyway. Other reasons. You can always out-wit the PHBs.

      But did/do you have one?

      I suppose I would answer with a question "Why do you want to know?" (Yeah I know this pisses a lot of interviewers off. I am not one of them, however, I want people to answer my interview questions with another question, it shows they are thinking.)

      If they just wanted to use Facebook as an example for some scenario, I would answer differently than if someone someone wanted to mention their batshit insane policy.

      Regardless if I have x or y social media account, I will respectfully and efficiently terminate any interview where social media contact is an issue. Regardless of the legality or ethics of snooping personal info, I just don't see myself working at a place where that level of pervasiveness is required. As an interviewee I actually ask about personnel policies. Most people do not even know about them until they read the employee handbook (well after they have accepted their offer and started work).

      This is related to companies with the "we own anything you think about while you work here" policy. I worked at a place that got acquired and decided to change the agreement to including a "no side work" policy, and you cannot work in the "same industry within 100 miles any city we have an office (by the way we have an office within 100 miles of every city in your country)" policy. I just flatly refused to sign the new agreement, and informed my coworkers to do the same. The company allowed us to add a grandfather clause on this. And even then they tried suing a group of my friends that left for a competitor.

      I lost track of where I was going with this, except that... "Fuck any company that tries to implement an overreaching employee policy. Especially if it is legal."

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    18. Re:An easy solution by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Considering that the interview was for work in a prison, perhaps there's another reason?

      If I were hiring people to be peace officers, and asked them to show me their Facebook profile during an interview, I would not hire anybody who accepted and let me look at the profile. If they don't understand that it's wrong to search without probable cause to suspect wrongdoing, then I don't want them in that job.

      Then again, the fact that I think like that would probably disqualify me from being in a position where I'm making that kind of hiring decision....

    19. Re:An easy solution by Minupla · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is something between a warrent and hacking. It's called "asking". If facebook recieves a request for information from a fedreal agency, they can choose to comply (I doubt there's anything in the contract you have with them that prohibits it) of their own free will. No warrent required.

      The feds might even say "Please".

      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    20. Re:An easy solution by kamelkev · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > and even the Feds don't go demanding to see your Facebook profile.

      That's probably because they don't need your permission in order to look at your profile. My understanding is that background checks by the FBI include a review of your online profiles - they just do it through a back channel that isn't public.

      I recently interviewed a sysadmin who had no privacy settings on his facebook page. I found this a little troubling because I find innate privacy concerns to be a key attribute of a good sysadmin. When I asked him about this he commented on how routine follow up background checks as part of his current position (which was for a branch of the government) had made those privacy settings a farce to him. They can see the data anyway, so the only person he was fooling was himself.

    21. Re:An easy solution by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So...what happens when you tell them you do not have a Facebook or other social website account?

      I mean, I don't have one, I have no need for one...and I value my privacy.

      Kind of hard to prove a negative, eh?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    22. Re:An easy solution by zzsmirkzz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That said, I've held a security clearance, and known people with even higher security ratings; and even the Feds don't go demanding to see your Facebook profile. This shit is ridiculous.

      Not to mention all of the information the hiring manager can get that they are legally not allowed to ask - like your martial status, whether you have kids, your religion or political views. This is why I would refuse, and I would tell them so, basically, it's illegal and I would report it immediately.

    23. Re:An easy solution by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Above the law?
      You may like it or not but there is no such law.
      People should move back a bit and remember you do not have a right to work for me.
      The government is currently in the US trying to change that and the California government has so far done a good job of trying to make it a right but really it is not.

      Now I know you want to scream at me and let me know that it is a right.
      Really though it is not. If I had spent 5 years doing 100 hour weeks to build a business I would rather burn it down than put some fucking "club rat" or "thug" where a customer can ever see them. It just is not worth the risk to me. You can go get a job at a club or working with real thugs. Your rights end where they threaten mine.
      Mostly I would never check Facebook profile. Mostly I can tell what type of person someone interviewing is. If I have a question though where I feel that a Facebook check would make me feel better about hiring you .... I just wont fucking hire you.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    24. Re:An easy solution by networkBoy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've had one interview where they asked me for access to my private profile.
      I politely asked why, since I have my profile set to private for a reason (it's for family communication only really).
      Their response was that they wanted to see if I had posted anything negative about my former employer. I said, no that would be silly, it was prohibited by the NDA. They let it drop at that.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    25. Re:An easy solution by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes. And two bodies. One for work and one with a spine.

      --
      Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
    26. Re:An easy solution by s73v3r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that as the employer, you have the right to ask whatever questions you want.

      I don't. And I think such thinking is leading down the path to where your employer has absolute control over your life. And no, not everyone is in the position where they can "just quit", especially when doing so means going to work for some other asshole who has the same ideas.

      The idea that employers should be able to do all this shit just because they're the ones with the money needs to die a terrible, terrible death.

      That said, I also think the potential employees need to grow a spine and stop answering to unacceptable demands.

      While that would be great, the fact of the matter is, not everyone is in a position to do so. Most people place a lot of value on the ability to eat and pay rent.

      The answer to, "I'd like to see your facebook profile" is, "and I'd like to be billionaire and not have to go hunting for jobs. We can't all have what we want. I'd also like to not work for someone who would wish to invade my privacy in this way, and that's a goal I can actually achieve. Thanks for your time, but I'm not interested in the job."

      And then the unemployment office comes calling, and wonders why you've blown the 3rd interview you've had in the past 2 weeks.

    27. Re:An easy solution by happyhamster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You should take yet another step back and recall that you do not have a right to run a business either. You might have delusions that it's a right, but it's not. The very existence of your "business" depends on the society, through the government, setting up the legal framework to run businesses, maintaining law and order, maintaining monetary system, educating workforce etc. With all that infrastructure in place, the society, through government, lets you run a business as long as it's beneficial to society. For example, most businesses employ people, which is beneficial to society, so they are allowed to function. Business owner is allowed to keep some of the profits from the business as incentive.

      The bottom line is that your "business" is not really yours, but a product of society. If you want to run a business, you better play nice with society and make sure you treat your employees as equals and not some underclass slaves, or you may not be allowed to use the society's infrastructure to run your shenanigans.

    28. Re:An easy solution by s73v3r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you're starting to now have to deal with the entitlement generation

      How is it "entitlement" to actually believe that employees have rights too? Or is it back to the whole, "That person has more money, therefore they're better than you" argument?

      they don't understand that it isn't their right to have everything they want

      And yet, here you are arguing that it is the employer's right to have everything they want. Double Standard much?

      but hey, if an employer wants to us these methods to screen people, well, it is my choice to not work for that employer.

      Not everyone even has the courtesy of an illusion of choice. For many it's either take this job, or starve.

  2. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Between cell phone location and call logs, and Facebook, Americans now volunteer for a kind of self-surveillance the former USSR only dreamt of having on its citizens!

  3. Belgium! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm happy to live in a country where such practices are illegal.

  4. Decline by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We all seem very determined to turn our countries into fascist states don't we? This sort of intrusion into people's private lives shouldn't be tolerated, but the public outcry is negligible.

    1. Re:Decline by kj_kabaje · · Score: 3, Informative

      Turning? Where do you live that isn't fascist already (in the classical sense)?  Business and government do seem rather cozy pretty much where you go.

  5. Distress password? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It shouldn't be hard to allow users to add a distress password that would make Facebook appear logged in but would hide anything that would not be visible to outsiders.

  6. You know how you can tell a boss is an asshole? by evilRhino · · Score: 4

    They ask you to log in to your Facebook account before they even know you. If this happened to me, I would refuse and then politely excuse myself.

  7. Another reason to not use facebook ... by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I used to use facebook since the early days.

    But then I deleted it. My google+, facebook, all gone.

    Got sick of the privacy issues, having my personal information being sold for money (while I get NO benefit from it), and now THIS ....

    --
    You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
  8. It stopped being your private life by Linegod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It stopped being your private life when you posted it to the Internet.

    --
    -- I care not for your foolish signatures.
  9. Fighting gang infiltration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This (perhaps naive) effort is an attempt to prevent gang agents from infiltrating the department. Local gangs are actively recruiting relatives and acquaintances without criminal histories to work as correctional officers. Many of those job applicants are barely literate and do not realize that their Facebook pages are a give away of their gang connections. They simply give up that information. Apparently, the next step would be full lifestyle checks akin to what fed agencies do. Much more expensive but also effective. Disclaimer: I do work for MD DPSCS.

  10. I've an even better solution by Weezul · · Score: 4, Informative

    You should remind them that accessing another user's account is a violation of facebook's terms of service, even if that user gives them permission, which potentially makes it a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. 1030), i.e. a felony.

    In addition, there are various other questions that employers cannot ask during interviews because doing so violates federal equal employment opportunity legislation, meaning that accessing a user's facebook account opens them up to lawsuits.

    There is however one valid legal use for asking users for their facebook accounts, namely screening out employees who'll create a security risk by being especially vulnerable to social engineering. If an employee will have access to sensitive user or employee account information, then you might reasonable ask them for their facebook account password. If they provide it, you politely tell them they have failed the interview, thank them for their time, and send them home early. If they refuse, then you tell them they answered that question correctly and continue with the interview.

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    1. Re:I've an even better solution by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tell the that's the same as asking to know your age, religion and national origin and you intend to file a claim with the EEOC.

    2. Re:I've an even better solution by TheRedSeven · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is a common misconception about EEOC regulation. There is no such thing as a "question that employers cannot ask during interviews." (Erm, I guess you are not allowed to ask about disabilities...so one exception.) An interviewer can ask whatever they want. Seriously.

      The only catch is that if they ask something about your race, sex, religion, or national origin, they can't use your answer as a reason to hire/not hire you. So there's really no point in asking the question. But it's not illegal--of itself--to ask the question. It's just pointless and stupid (and risks alienating an otherwise good job candidate, and possibly opening yourself to litigation if the candidate thinks his/her answer was the basis for not getting the job).

      Since I'm going to get a "Citation Needed" tag, here you go: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2011/01/10/is-that-interview-question-legal

  11. Re:easy, set up a dead end friend list by galego · · Score: 4, Informative

    That might work for 3 weeks or so until FB automatically resets permissions to default-world-viewable and you have to manually fix them again.

    --

    Que Deus te de em dobro o que me desejas

    [May God give you double that which you wish for me]

  12. Many, many reasons by anti-pop-frustration · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why Making Facebook Private Won't Protect You?

    - Because posting something you consider private on facebook (aka publishing it on the Internet) is stupid and careless
    - Because facebook employees have unrestricted access to your account
    - Because it will be hard if not impossible to *actually* remove your information from their servers and backups
    - Because facebook contracts moderating content to outsourcing firms and everything you post there risks being reviewed by an under-vetted, unfulfilled person on a dollar an hour in an internet café in Marrakech.

    This is for all you "If you haven't done anything wrong, what do you have to hide?" and "You're one in a million, nobody cares about your insignificant neck-beard life" apologists: Don't you see why it is bad that all that private information is aggregated and under the control of a single entity?
    Even if it is done with reasonable safeguards and the best of intentions, which is definitely not the case with facebook, the simple fact that all this information exists online, tied to your real name, means that the potential for abuse is immense. And this is time it's not even facebook doing the abusing and profiteering, it's just an external third party.

    And when you've been unemployed for a substantial amount of time and you are desperate for a job, who has more power over you than a potential employer?

    Give up your privacy, pledge allegiance to your employer. Don't you love the neofeudalist world we live in?

  13. Illegally Intrusive Question by QuincyDurant · · Score: 3, Informative

    The only reason this happens is that Facebook is a comparatively new thing, and it takes a while for issues likes these to work their way through the courts. Employers are nuts to ask for the irrelevant personal information that almost any Facebook account contains.

    http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/02/checking-out-job-applicants-on-facebook-better-ask-a-lawyer/

  14. Agreed. by Brain-Fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The right to work is mis-envisioned. Most people who think they have a right to work don't realize that it translates to a requirement to employ liabilities and lose one's business. The bigger issue, though, is that most people see the having of a job as the only means by which they can subsist, and so they consider it an extension of the right to life.

    We are entering an era of such technological ascendency that very few people must actually work in order to provide for the subsistence of the entire population. Capitalistic values do not work well in such an economic landscape. The fact that civilized governments pay landowners to NOT grow food, in an effort to protect a market, while children go to bed hungry within their own borders, demonstrates the absurdities of this disparity.

    Of course...people who can't find jobs are not content to just die. They absolutely will turn to crime instead, where they will either:

    a) take your wealth from you by stealing it, to your detriment, or
    b) receive free food and clothing, paid by your tax dollars, in jail.

    We will be providing for their subsistence one way or the other. It would be better, however, if humans could maintain a more enlightened means of solving the distribution problem.

  15. What's good for the goose... by chicago_scott · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'll allow a perceptive employer to see my Facebook page if they'll let me see the company financial books. That way we can both know there's no funny business going on.

    Otherwise we can both agree to trust each other and get some work done.