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Algorithm Brings Speedier, Safer CT Scans

kenekaplan writes "Standard CT scanners can generate images of patient's body in less than five minutes today, but the radiation dose can be equal to about 70 chest X-rays. Lower-powered CT scans can be used in non-emergency situations, but it can take more than four days to produce those images. Intel and GE created an algorithm that speeds up a computer's ability to process the low radiation dose scans by 100x, from 100 hours per image to one hour."

36 of 58 comments (clear)

  1. God damned stupid article by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Informative

    1. I hate 'news articles' that are chock full of hyperbole and mis information. TFA implies that most CT scanning is done in the ER for life or death reasons which is hardly true. It oversells the current radiation dose of modern 16+ slice scanners and attempts to lower the radiation doses for all CTs.
    2. Current gen CT scanners cut the dose of most tests by at least half from the second and third gen scanners. Of course, TFA doesn't mention how good the new dose regimens are in terms of decreasing dose.
    3. It appears that this new tech has a significant price tag. TFA quoted 1.5 million for a 128 slice scanner with the "new algorithm". More slices = faster and more resolution, but mostly faster. The current 'top of the line' is 64 slice. "Standard" CTs are 16 slice and cost anywhere from $150 - 250K.
    4. At least the GE scanners run Linux!

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    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    1. Re:God damned stupid article by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      And if this linked article doesn't remind you of a certain Monty Python sketch, then you've ceased to be, kicked the bucket and shuffled off this mortal coil.

      I don't see how they did that blurb with a straight face.

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      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:God damned stupid article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It was so cool back in the days to see DEC/OSF booting on an MRI tech console. Diversity of both software and hardware. SGI workstations (Indigo, perhaps, I don't remember) in another room, with funky 4Dwm windows & icons. Now almost every medical equipment I run is either Windows or Linux (like that new GE CareStation we got last week). Linux, Linux, Linux. Or Windows. Or VxWorks. This starts to get boring.

    3. Re:God damned stupid article by meza · · Score: 2

      Did you read another article than the one I read? This is an honest question.

      1. The article in fact mention that the new technique is not applicable for life or death situation where a high radiation dose is acceptable. But rather for routine tests where it is important to limit the dose.
      2. Article doesn't mention different generations of CT
      3. No price is mentioned that I can see. I've search for "1.5", "million", neither words are used anyway
      4. No mention of linux

      Maybe the link have changed from an earlier version. The article is intel.com so I assume that it's main purpose was PR, but still I thought it was pretty ok and it was clear on the improvement that was made (computation time was reduced by a factor of 100).

    4. Re:God damned stupid article by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Better get used to it. The GE tech rep said it was going to be Linux all the way down as far as GE is concerned....

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      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:God damned stupid article by mclaincausey · · Score: 1

      "Top of the line" is now 320 rows for Toshiba, or dual-source 128 rows for Siemens. I think there are 256 detector row scanners as well.

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    6. Re:God damned stupid article by mclaincausey · · Score: 1

      Also, "faster" has a material bearing on dosage... For example, imaging doing a vascular run-off with a four-slice scanner. The narrow detector array means the patient will be bombarded with ionizing radiation for far longer than a wider detector array (higher Z-axis efficiency with more slices). And if you're doing dynamic (4D) scans (e.g., coronary functional CT scans), then getting a whole volume in one rotation is also huge and saves on radiation.

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    7. Re:God damned stupid article by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, I added a few things -

      1. The article makes breathless claims about "emergency' CT scans and gives a decidedly FUD picture to the issue of radiation exposure via medical devices. It's there, just not as dramatically as mentioned.
      2. I added the different generations of CT scanners to point out that manufacturers have been cutting down dosage systematically and significantly over the past couple of decades. Again, it's really just progress.....
      3. The cost of the 128 slice "new algorithm" scanner is almost an order of magnitude more than a base gen 3 CT scan. It does things that the cheaper scanner doesn't but that's a pretty high price to pay. The info comes from a linked article in TFA (see my post below the first one).
      4. This is Slashdot. I thought somebody would appreciate this bit of technical trivia. Of course, if it ran OS X or if Google developed it, the thread would get 10 times the comments this one will get.

      Mostly I'm just grumping about stupid press releases. If they toned down the rhetoric and added some technical detail, it might be an interesting Slashdot post. As it is, it's just fluffy techno pony drivel.

      Now, if you don't mind, it's time for my nap....

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      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:God damned stupid article by Anastomosis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, we have a 256-slice scanner that we routinely use. It is excellent for cardiac studies, where speed of scanning is important to reduce motion artifact from cardiac motion.

    9. Re:God damned stupid article by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hopefully it will stop soon. 640 slices ought to be enough for anyone....

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      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    10. Re:God damned stupid article by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      4. No mention of linux

      My guess is (s)he works in the medical imaging field where it's pretty common knowledge. It doesn't need to be mentioned in the article. GE scanners run Linux and ran Solaris before that.

      Maybe the link have changed from an earlier version. The article is intel.com so I assume that it's main purpose was PR, but still I thought it was pretty ok and it was clear on the improvement that was made (computation time was reduced by a factor of 100).

      I have a friend who works for Sapheneia They have been doing this for several years now. Not only have they been able to do this for some time, but they also work with almost any vendors scanner.

    11. Re:God damned stupid article by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The GE tech rep said it was going to be Linux all the way down as far as GE is concerned

      Maybe we should replace Tux with a new mascot, maybe this guy?

      Nah, Linux is too fast. hey, Windows doesn't have a mascot and this would fit them better. Maybe GE will reconsider their OS choice?

  2. Technology is well... Just great... by FranktehReaver · · Score: 1

    Technology has been making some huge leaps and bounds over the past few years, it is almost hard to believe a few years ago I was playing Ultima Online lol. This is huge for the medical field in treating and diagnosing people without adding another problem to the list. Keep these algorithms coming! Save mankind computers and prove those terminator movies wrong!

  3. OpenCL || Intel add by Massacrifice · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sounds like a job for OpenCL. A GPU cluster would be much more scalable than using expensive Xeons. Which also makes this article sound like an add for Intel CPUs.

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    1. Re:OpenCL || Intel add by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Minor nit: "ad" = advertisement, "add" = addition.

    2. Re:OpenCL || Intel add by ndykman · · Score: 1

      Not every problem leads itself to GPGPU solutions. I'm no expert, but looking at a paper on a similar idea for optical reconstruction, I'd bet that the creation and update of the model via analysis (comparsion between predicted and actual results) is really hard to make parallel, and that process has a lot of non-localized memory access.

      I'm sure you could use GPU acceleration for the CG calculations in the reconstruction phases, but I'm not sure that's the limiting factor here.

      In short, there are really good reasons to use a lot of fast CPUs, and this sounds like one of them.

    3. Re:OpenCL || Intel add by Macman408 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think this very much is an Intel ad. I was curious, because this sounded familiar, so I looked it up. From the press release and GE's white paper, it looks like their system:
      Uses 25 mAs dose (75% less than standard, they say)
      Is ready in an hour, 100 times faster than when they started in 2006 (so 6-10x of that speedup is Moore's Law, the other 10-16x is algorithm improvement)
      Uses 28 quad-core Xeons

      On the other hand, a GPU solution from 2 years ago:
      Gives a 2-4 mAs dose (97-99% less than standard, they say)
      Is ready in 1-2 minutes, 100 times faster than contemporary CPU algorithms
      Uses a single GPU

      Better, faster, cheaper... Pick three.

    4. Re:OpenCL || Intel add by jpmorgan · · Score: 1

      You're right. In fact, it has already been done.

  4. Throwing resources at the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How to obtain a 100x speedup: consider an architecture with 112 cores, wait for 2 CPU generations to pass, and put 3 engineers on the task for several years to parallelize the algorithm by hand. Of course, giving it to the research community would have been impossible because, you know, it may have worked faster with more general solutions.

  5. Inquiring minds by sjames · · Score: 3, Funny

    Inquiring minds want to know, since this will substantially reduce the needed resources for a scan, how much cheaper will they be?

    You can stop laughing now!

    1. Re:Inquiring minds by sjames · · Score: 2

      Yes, but that machine now has a higher throughput. More scans to amortize across. Time is a resource.

  6. Looking forward to improvements by djbckr · · Score: 2

    I had a CT scan two weeks ago. I didn't fully realize until after I was done about the amount of radiation I was exposed to. My arm where the IV was injected with radiation hurt like hell for about 18 hours and of course I now have a higher risk of cancer. There's enough radiation in the injection that it makes you feel like you're generating heat from the inside. It's quite a weird feeling. I guess it was needed for the procedure I had to have done, but here's hoping for improvements with lowered radiation exposure.

    1. Re:Looking forward to improvements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      From what I have read, you basically get a 1/400 chance of cancer over 10 years.
      Sounds like a lot/little depending on your view. My mother had 6 CTs.

    2. Re:Looking forward to improvements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The heat you felt is really because the iodine gets to the thyroid provoking a thermal regulation change.

    3. Re:Looking forward to improvements by the+biologist · · Score: 1

      They don't inject radiation into you.

      Yes, I am a biologist.

    4. Re:Looking forward to improvements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the procedure described was a PET/CT scan. In that case, they do indeed "inject radiation into you":

      PET images features CT doesn't, but CT provides much better spatial resolution, which is why it's diagnostically advantageous to have simultaneous and coregistered subject imaging. The obvious way to achieve this is to build the two scanning apparatuses into the same device to provide both spatial and temporal locality. Whereas CT imaging provides its own signal (the emitter as well as the detector), PET imaging only provides detection and thus requires an active signal, achieved in the form of emissions from a short-lived source of ionizing radiation called a tracer.

    5. Re:Looking forward to improvements by HiddenCamper · · Score: 1

      First, the "radiation" didnt make the burning. If you were getting enough radiation to feel a 'burn' you would be losing your hair right now. To put the numbers in perspective, you received a maximum of 1-1.5 Rem (10-15 mSv) of radiation. The average yearly background exposure not including medical is ~320 mRem/year (3.2mSv). Including medical: ~620 mRem (6.2 mSv). For a nuclear power plant worker the maximum allowed per year is 5 Rem (50 mSv). On average nuclear power plant workers get an additional 100mRem/year (1mSv), except for outage workers who average about an extra 300 mRem/year (3mSv). People working at Fukushima after the accident were authorized to receive 25 Rem (250mSv) to protect the plant and the public. There is no statistical increase in liklihood of cancer until you pass 10 Rem (100mSv). Even using Linear No Threshold which is the most conservative accepted estimate and is used by the government for calculating deaths from radiation exposure to assign value to radiation, your increase in risk is .1% over your entire lifetime due to that procedure. Again just FYIs and facts.

    6. Re:Looking forward to improvements by Drewcool · · Score: 2

      So that's why I never noticed that side effect after my thyroid was removed.

    7. Re:Looking forward to improvements by Libertarian001 · · Score: 1

      You seriously have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, do you. "My arm where the IV was injected with radiation..." ?! Your arm was not injected with radiation. Your arm was injected with Contrast. Were you listening to the Rad Techs at all? It went something like this "OK, I'm going to inject you with contrast now. You'll feel it spreading warmly through you. Take a deep breath...and hold it... (as the scan goes), OK, breathe."

      Oh, my qualification? I work on GE Lightspeed and Toshiba Aquillion CTs for a living.

    8. Re:Looking forward to improvements by swamp_ig · · Score: 1

      A number of misunderstandings in this post and the comments:

      1. The IV injection is an iodine containing contrast, it does not contain radioisotopes / radiation. Iodine is a heavy, and thus radiopaque element and is used to show blood flow in the CT scan.
      2. The warmth you felt is due to a histamine and vasodilatory reaction to the IV contrast, it's got nothing to do with the thyroid. It's similar to the warming sensation you get when you have a couple of shots of alcohol and actually causes you to cool down.
      3. Iodine contrast is an issue - in people with severe kidney disease it can cause kidney damage. If contrast leaks from the vein into the subcutanious tissues it can cause some locallized iritation and swelling.

  7. danger of "model-in, model-out" by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Seismology uses similar model-based reconstruction algorithms. the danger is you can force the data into something that looks a lot like the input model if you are not careful. Technically this get stuck on on a false local minimum in an optimization problem.

  8. Worthwhile Goal by oldCoder · · Score: 2

    A while back I had several full-body CT scans on an emergency basis. They found what they were looking for in my liver and it was treated. But I was forbidden to have any X-Rays of any kind for two years after that. So when I came down with bronchitis and pneumonia, the doctor had to play it by ear (literally, he just listened to my chest). All is well, now. But lowering the X-Ray dosage of CT scans is very worthwhile.

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  9. New algorithm or hand-tuned code? by LeDopore · · Score: 1

    Is it really a new algorithm, or is it just that they hand-tuned the code to run iterative reconstruction quickly? There's a world of difference. There are some great algorithms out there to speed up calculation of large images where you expect them to be compressible in some basis, but from this article it looks like they didn't invent a new fancy algorithm, they just heavily optimized an existing one. Anybody have a link to a technical paper so we can find out for sure?

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  10. Not news.... by whydavid · · Score: 1

    This is old news: http://www.genewscenter.com/Press-Releases/GE-Healthcare-Unveils-Ultra-Low-Dose-CT-Technology-with-Profound-Image-Clarity-3367.aspx And if you read through the Intel and GE press releases, you'll find numbers all over the map as to how much this actually decreases radiation exposure. It might be a 4x reduction (GE scientist quoted in Intel article), it might be a 10x reduction (Intel article), or it might be a 100x reduction (GE article). It might just depend on the specific scan being done, but you won't find that in either article. This is quite a breakthrough and is fantastic news for anyone who needs regular scans, but it is a bit overstated (as mentioned by other commenters, CT scans had greatly improved from the doses quoted by GE/Intel as baseline figures), is nearing 2 years of availability in some areas, and is going to see slow adoption as hospitals a) aren't willing to part with the expensive, working machines they have and b) the time requirement of an hour is still significant enough to rule this out in many environments. There is still a key issue that isn't mentioned here. It might take 15 minutes to get a prepped patient in the room, to scan them, and then to do all necessary work to prepare for another patient, but it takes an hour to analyze a scan. So, we either get 4 servers to process the scans (I think Intel would like this very much) or we run under capacity or we leave a long queue of scans to be analyzed overnight and read the next day. The 1st option is expensive, the 2nd option is not going to happen if there is a living accountant in the building, and the third option would still require an extra server (assuming we do more than 24 scans each day) and is only workable if there can be a day+ delay in sending results. Perhaps some Slashdotter will make a fortune with their CT analysis "cloud." And not to sound like a party-pooper, but for customers in the U.S. GE/Intel still have no power over the insurance approval process which can delay your scan by another order of magnitude. Let's celebrate this for what it is, a nice improvement for a small niche of healthcare consumers who require several CT scans in their lifetime, and not for the miracle-machine that the GE/Intel marketing department would have us believe.

  11. So what, exactly, have they done? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Except for some vague references to parallelizing (alleged) essentially single threaded code and peephole optimization, what have they done? Where's the great advance in software that the headline promises? How are the new algorithms difference from the old ones? Where's the statement of the underlying difficulties? TFA is inexcusable puffery.

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  12. Anatomy by DrYak · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, there's quite a lot of difference betwen a hand, a head, a foot, a chest..
    If the initial model used for the reconstruction is just some generic approximative shape, it will still provide some speed up, but won't be affected that much by the actual pathology which is being imaged.

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