Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Finding an IT Job Without a Computer-Oriented Undergraduate Degree
An anonymous reader writes "Contrary to what many individuals think, not everybody on Slashdot went to college for a computer-related degree. Graduating in May of this year, my undergraduate degree will be in psychology. Like many undergraduate psychology students, I applied to a multitude of graduate programs but, unfortunately, was not given admission into a single one. Many are aware that a bachelor's degree in psychology is quite limiting, so I undoubtedly have been forced into a complicated situation. Despite my degree being in psychology, I have an immense interest in computers and the typical 'hard science' fields. How can one with a degree that is not related to computers acquire a job that is centered around computers? At the moment, I am self-taught and can easily keep up in a conversation of computer science majors. I also do a decent amount of programming in C, Perl, and Python and have contributed to small open source projects. Would Slashdot users recommend receiving a formal computer science education (only about two years, since the nonsensical general education requirements are already completed) before attempting to get such a job? Anybody else in a similar situation?"
I've spent the last 15 years in IT performing various tasks, from programming to server admin.
You can do what you're looking to do. Here's the problem: Someone, somewhere, has to be the first to take a risk and hire you to do this.
Once you have experience, you're on your way, because IT is still an area where experience and excellence speak louder than degrees or certifications. (although that is starting to change)
The problem is, with the influx of people from around the world, offshoring, and new grads with legitimate degrees every year, who would take you? If you can find that person, great - you're "in". So the key is to network, get yourself in front of people, and highlight your development experience. I guarantee your resume won't get past the HR Drone filter looking for a specific degree. So you need to pound pavement and press flesh. It's what I did for my first 2 jobs; after that it was easier. It will also make your subsequent career easier to navigate.
If that sounds like a bit more than your interpersonal skills and contact network can handle, stretch your graduation day a couple of years out and take the classes you need to get the degree. It will make the task much easier.
Because game programming is hell on earth. To people who are not IT, it sounds awesome (design your own game! could it be cooler?). But to those inside, it's working the coal mines.
I am John Hurt.
My bet here is that some Slashdot posters are going to enter this conversation and tell you that you don't need a CS degree to be successful. That you might even be able to get away with taking a few formal classes, working on some more open source projects, and to keep trying. That you can somehow salvage your situation and make something of yourself in this field.
I believe this to be true, but only in an outlier sense... statistically your current situation does not put you in a favorable light to be hired. There are surely people who got into computer science through unconventional methods - but there is always a common driving force behind their efforts. They don't end up being successful with computers by accident, they have a long history of psuedo-study that has given them the ability to be competitive in the space.
To put it bluntly, why should I hire you? You've got a soft-science degree which frankly many people don't respect. People with Masters and PhDs are working in bookstores right now - and you have a basic Psychology degree. This shows a lack of planning on your part that I would hold against you on an interview... and to be clear: I do a lot of interviews. You would never make it to me as our filtering process would eliminate you along with the bus drivers who are also applying for jobs with us (that actually happens, pretty amazing).
The economy of the situation is clear. There is a huge swath of unemployed people right now with more skills than you, with more experience than you, with better training and a more appropriate degree (lots of EEs are unemployed for example). So it's going to be really tough for you to sort of slip through the cracks and get a job. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No.
If you are truly interested in getting into the field, you should consider that at no other time has it been easier to be an independent developer. Work for yourself, make your own projects. Make some games for the apple app store (forget android, so hard to make money there) or something, and get cracking.
I'm in exactly the same situation, with no regrets. Interviews were a little tough early on, but once you have it, experience trumps education. My lack of a degree hasn't been an issue in a long time.
And the great thing about this industry is that you can get the experience and prove yourself without anybody else's permission. Contribute to open source, release a smartphone app, etc. It's in your hands: just do it.
They don't set in a class room for 4+ years before getting a job and they have apprenticeships that tech real job skills.
They also have on going education that is not just go to class for 2 years to get a masters or BA or PHD.
I see a reason why not... It does not matter that much. When I am hiring, I am looking for experience and skills more than degree. Get some entry level support jobs to train up, or a summer IT internship. And once you have some experience, that Psychology degree will help a lot. I have 25 years in the IT industry, and a Social Science degree. I have no formal cirts either, but I helped develop a few...
That was my degree (cognitive psychology) and I got a job programming. It's what you know and how you can contribute that matters - not who "blessed" you with the acknowledgement of your achievement. I've had no problem with transitioning to technology (then architecture, then management). Like anything, find a craft you love and pursue it. I'll always hire a motivated, intelligent person over someone who holds a certification or degree, but lacks passion.
Personally, I don't think people should expect much out of recent college grads - most places I've worked recognize you'll have to basically start from scratch with most (which is fine) since so much of what you'll be doing is related to domain knowledge.
Your biggest challenge will be getting through the HR "acronym" machine. Network. Get out there and get involved. Volunteer. Blog. Learn stuff. You're already doing the right thing(s) - just stop acting like your degree is some sort of disability. It's a job asset.
But don't waste your time getting another bachelor's degree - go straight to graduate school. My alma mater (UW-Madison, consistently ranked in the top 15 CS grad schools) had lots of people without CS/CE/EE undergrad degrees, and I suspect other good departments are the same. As long as you can code and show you have academic potential (e.g. a peer reviewed paper, even if it's in an unrelated field), you'll be fine.
Another bachelors degree will mostly be a waste of time, given that you already know the stuff. All you'll be doing is checking a box which you arguably don't need checked anyway. The people in your classes will be unmotivated to work harder than to get whatever grade they want, and in some cases clueless. Contrast this with graduate school, where I learned more from my peers than the courses themselves (as a bonus, these people are actually weird and interesting and have extremely diverse backgrounds).
True story. My previous contract was with LPS - Aptitude Solutions in Maitland. One of the top developers there was a long haul trucker who after getting injured on the job was offered cross training. They gave him an IQ test and he scored in the 140s but they forced him to take it again because he was 6'4" 300 lbs and looked like he could snap your neck with one hand like a twig.
After realizing that he wasn't stupid they put him in a six month C class. Not C++, not C#, not objective C but plain old pain in the ass C. By the third month he was conducting the class when the teacher was out sick or otherwise.
So what the hell does this mean?
1) College will never teach you how to program in the real world, not now, not ever.
2) If you get a CS degree but can't program you may find work but it will never pay a high salary until you moved into PM.
3) The demand for natural programmers completely outweighs the need for a degree.
So what do you do?
This part is actually simpler than I thought when I started writing this post.
1) Whether you are a Freshman in High School or someone who has just graduated with a non-CS degree, your best bet is to endure the joy, the pain, the good, the evil that is C. Buy any book on it, download free compilers from anywhere and program, program, program. If you can successfully program seriously basic applications such as a Calculator or a Text Editor without putting a bullet in your head, you may very well be a natural programmer.
2) Pick your poison. I committed to C# in 2005 and have never looked back. Short term contracts for me have been the most lucrative and most reliable and generally speaking pay in the range of $45.00 to $75.00 per hour and usually last three to six months. The longest I went between contracts in the past three years has been about three weeks. I will defer to the Java, C++ developers on slashdot but believe that if you are highly skilled you will be successful in those languages as well.
He is probably scared of the "book smart" which I used to run into quite often when i worked corporate IT. They'd send us this guy with tons of paper and if you gave him some written test on a subject he'd just slaughter. the problem was if he was thrown ANY kind of curveball, anything that wasn't going from step A to step B, they'd be worse than useless. This would be because they were "book smart" and were able to absorb facts like a sponge but they never really had a grasp on how those facts actually applied to the situation.
One of the old server guys gave me this analogy which I thought really nailed it: "Its like you are given this parrot that has been taught how to speak the alphabet in perfect English, his inflection, tone of voice, everything is so damned perfect...until you ask him "Hey bird what letter comes after Q?" and then you find out its just a parrot and it doesn't actually understand what the fuck you are talking about" and that was the book smart ones in a nutshell, they knew everything from rote memorization but really didn't have a clue how to do anything else and when taken out of that comfort zone were just completely clueless.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.