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NSA Chief Denies Claims of Domestic Spying
AstroPhilosopher writes "Recently Wired, USA Today and other news outlets reported on a new spy center being built to store intercepted communications (even American citizens'). Tuesday, Gen. Keith Alexander testified in front of Congress refuting the articles. Alexander even went so far as to claim the NSA lacks the authority to monitor American citizens. It's an authority that was given to the NSA through the FISA Amendments Act signed into law by Bush and still supported today by Obama."
Alexander even went so far as to claim the NSA lacks the authority to monitor American citizens
That's where the UKUSA agreement comes into play.
Luckily the NSA would never lie to us, or to congress, so I'm pretty sure that we can trust him on this one.
If you work there, you need to keep even well known facts a secret.
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A General lying about his intentions to the enemy?
Say it ain't so!
The problem here is that the US Government seems to regard it's citizens as "the enemy".
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
IIRC, intercepting the communications from intercept points outside the U.S., regardless of whether they originated within the U.S., is how they justify spying on American citizens.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
Listen to what government's balance sheet says.
If the NSA isn't spying on American citizens, then why are they so steadfastly opposed to EFF, EPIC, etc. trying to obtain that information from them in court?
What is their explanation about the monitoring rooms in AT&T's facilities that tap into domestic fiber?
They won't give us an explanation in a court room but they'll make promises that they aren't.
Sorry, I can't trust the words of an organization that is vital to the interest of a dying empire.
They're spying on everything their hardware can handle and using keywords to record the interesting bits. I always wonder what would happen if one played back the word "bomb" 50 thousand times with the audio of a gay porn in the background on a telephone call...
When you lie, “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”. — Adolf Hitler
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
DemocracyNow (http://www.democracynow.org) has interview with Thomas Drake, NSA Whistleblower (http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/21/in_unprecedented_obama_admin_crackdown_nsa) and James Bamford, the author of the Wired article and the book 'Puzzle Palace' (http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/21/exposed_inside_the_nsas_largest_and)
So it's fine for you twats to spy on us, but unthinkable to spy on yourselves?
I believe it was on NPR years ago, they had people who were immigrants calling in telling stories about how they'd be on a phone call with relatives back home and sometimes speaking obscure languages (those I vaguely remember were Scandinavian I think). Immediately after their calls, they were contacted by unknown people asking what language they were speaking.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Please. Nobody in the post-911 era believes that the government is refraining from spying on American citizens.
What a disgrace.
His entire job is to deny the NSA is doing stuff.
It's true. The NSA only has authority to monitor American citizens with brown skin.
Proverbs 21:19
Read the order that grants NSA their current authority here.
Executive Order 12333:
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo12333.htm
(If you go to a public-facing NSA briefing, this is the one they will cite.)
There's this standard irony in security related work. In setting up a system that can be spied upon (i.e. a hacked system) you will hire commercials to produce the hack who will also pass these little gems of knowledge on to other organisations that they (outside of work) do spying for (religions, countries etc.). Eventually in looking for people who are a threat to security you will generate holes in your national infrastructure that will leave your country wide open to espionage and destructive hacking. It also means that we have mobile phones and laptops that can be crashed with jammers as well, which damages everybody. Remember to stay paranoid! :0)
The purpose of existence is to make money.
[quote]saying the NSA did not have the capability to monitor, inside the United States, Americansâ(TM) text messages, phone calls and e-mails.[/quote]
oh! so the tapping equipment is on a network that is physically OUTSIDE the US borders.
oh. simple way to avoid the question.
but your lips were still moving, so we KNOW you were lying, at heart.
you bastard.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Even if they were spying, which they probably are not. Any evidence they obtain against a "terrorist" would probably not stand up in court anyway since it's illegal for them to spy on Americans. And also, if you are a law abiding citizen and are not doing anything wrong, then don't worry about it anyway. The NSA is really not interested in your boring personal conversations. They are there to keep us all safe from all the baddies that are out to destroy our country and hate our freedom. Get a life, people.
Replace that with:
"If the CIA isn't spying on American citizens, then why are they so steadfastly opposed to EFF, EPIC, etc. trying to obtain the identities of their officers and front organizations?"
"If federal law enforcement isn't running a side criminal organization for profit, they why are they steadfastly opposed to revealing who is in the witness protection program?"
Really, people. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why the NSA wouldn't open up to the world under some notion of "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" even if they're lilly white on domestic espionage. Maybe it's because... well... no arm of the military (which they are) in their right mind just says "hey world, come take a look at our full operational capabilities and see just how awesome and scary we are!"
I hope so and I hope some of the legislatures reminded him that he was under oath ...
1. An intelligence service cannot be effective if its sources, methods, capabilities, and techniques are known to the adversary. Intelligence processes must be kept secret, even in an open society. This has been true for the history of our nation.
2. Inasmuch as "monitoring rooms" are alleged — because their existence, capabilities, and numbers are NOT KNOWN beyond the assertions of a whistleblower with an admitted anti-war agenda — NSA is authorized to monitor foreign communications WITHIN THE US, and must be able to identify, discern, and target such communications within the sea of digital communications.
3. See 1.
4. How is what you assume NSA to be doing "vital to the interest of a dying empire"? Do you think the world would be a better place without the US, the West, and the ability to project and protect principles of freedom and liberal democracy, even if imperfectly? Would China, Russia, or a chaotic mix of Mideast states and transnational radials really be a better global steward?
I find the inaccuracy of the summary particularly amusing:
"Alexander even went so far as to claim the NSA lacks the authority to monitor American citizens. It's an authority that was given to the NSA through the FISA Amendments Act signed into law by Bush and still supported today by Obama."
NSA lacks the authority to monitor American citizens without an individualized warrant. And the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 actually is more strict with respect to US Persons than previous law: a warrant is required to monitor the communications of a US Person anywhere on the globe. But what the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 also does is allow NSA to target and monitor FOREIGN communications within the US, without a warrant.
I know some people might be stunned to learn this, but the primary mission of the foreign intelligence agencies is FOREIGN intelligence. But what about "warrantless wiretapping", you ask?
In the immediate wake of 9/11, the administration claimed the the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) allowed them to target American citizens identified as having contact with the enemy and/or were active combatants. The current Attorney General also argues that the President has this intrinsic authority under Article II of the Constitution. This was the same justification used in the targeting of Anwar al-Awlaki.
Other examples are things like journalists embedded with military units having the communications allegedly monitored, which would happen under the guise of the Joint COMSEC Monitoring Activity. And then we have the court cases — all of which involved people or groups who were thought to be linked to terror groups, not just ordinary, everyday citizens.
Even the most egregious examples of "warrantless wiretapping" (as alleged in the leaks to the press, or documented in various court proceedings) in the wake of 9/11 targeted very specific people — and were justified by the Justice Department, secretly reported to Congress, and reauthorized every 45 days. And that program had long ended by the time the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 fixed the dismal state of foreign intelligence collection.
This excerpt (An 'Intel Gap': What We're Missing, Newsweek, Aug 6, 2007) sums up the issue:
Gen. Keith Alexander also denied the existence of Gen. Keith Alexander, thought to be NSA's Chief General. When questioned upon this subject, Alexander said: "If such a person would be at NSA, I could not comment upon that.". When asked, however, by a curious Congressman Hank Johnson, a Georgia Democrat, whether "NSA" might stand for "No Such Alexander", Gen. Alexander did not hesitate to confirm with "Yes", marking the first time a high-ranking NSA-official has made such a revealing statement publicly. Yet the astonished Congressman Johnson, new to Congress and unfamiliar with such sensitive matters, asked the NSA's envoy once more in, what was perceived as too direct a fashion: "But General Alexander, if such a Person does not exist at NSA, then who are we talking to today?" After the gasps of horror subsided, Gen. Alexander answered in his usual humorous fashion, that he became well-known for ever since serving in Germany: "I could tell you, but zen you wudd be dedd! HA HA HA".
After the meeting adjourned, another member of Congress sighed (under condition of anonymity), that he still doesn't know who they questioned today. "I mean, there's really no such person working in no such agency (and I have no reason to doubt that this is the case), but still you sit there and listen to this person from that agency and it's like totally freaking you out, man!"
Congressman Johnson was unfortunately unavailable for an interview. He was found dead the next morning in the Potomac river, having died of accidental causes according to, strangely, Utah Police. A spokesman said "You know, we get that a lot over there in D.C...that people drink a little too much, stumble around with their feet in some fresh concrete and then jump in the river to cool of from the intoxication, where, tragically, they get pulled to the bottom by the now solid bricks encasing their expensive shoes." The NSA was unavailable for comment...
Since when does the NSA confirms or denies anything?
Alexander even went so far as to claim the NSA lacks the authority to monitor American citizens.
Since, you know, that's stopped government entities from doing things outside their jurisdiction before.
OH WAIT, no it doesn't. Ever.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
600k iterations make one truth
Given that US citizens can now be 'Gimoized' (along with being drone-killed sans trial), we are already Foreigners in the eyes of the security organs.
NSA - No Such Act
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Yea right and all those black cabinets I have seen in backbone data centers in Atlanta aren't really there either. I have seen these things with my own eyes and have been confronted by geeks with guns in the DC while they were working on them. I'd really like to take the general to these places and say "Explain these then." We used to be in the DC where Yahoo moved in when they took on ATT's mail. The last thing that went in was two black cabinets with big hairy digital locks and a new camera to watch just those cabinets. When we found out that our data was also going through these things we moved out.
I wish they would just come out and admit we are a fascist state and get it over with. Enough of the lies.
It's an authority that was given to the NSA through the FISA Amendments Act signed into law by Bush and still supported today by Obama.
No law permits a violation of the Constitution. Any law that contradicts the Constitution is null and void. So they're right that they don't have the authority to spy domestically, regardless of what the FISA Amendments Act says. Whether this is applied in practice is the real mystery. Other organizations - I believe the DEA/FBI - were recently caught putting tracking devices on people's cars.
It seems to be a common attitude in law enforcement - from the local to federal level - that liberties are an obstacle to justice rather than the cornerstone of it. We all know about the extensive data mining of internet companies like Facebook. I can only imagine what type of scary shit the NSA is doing. Freedom on information laws aren't very effective considering anything the public needs to know can be classified.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
These three-letter agencies tend to "neither confirm or deny" their actions, so an explicit denial is probably a confirmation... Now excuse me while I relax in the comfy chair some well-dressed gentlemen just delivered.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
he had his fingers crossed when selling his porky pies.
And still, 99.999952% of you won't PGP your emails.
So, I say: STFU. You are complicit in the large scale government surveillance of the internet.
How many warrants were they granted per year or whatever period of time to intercept American communications?
Heck, in Canada, they want warrant-less surveillance of internet, and to pay for it they want an extra addon to internet bills.
So in essence Canadians will get to pay extra to be spied upon...
This has been going on since at LEAST 2002 if not sooner:
http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/ATT_tech_outs_NSA_spy_room.asp
I helped install some of the Narus STA gear at other ATT locations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narus_%28company%29
ATT is not the only one, either. Narus was pressing into every global backbone provider. Im sure it has been installed in the vast majority of them, but I have nothing to prove this.
It's clear they *can* intercept and store anything they want and at this point it looks like they're working on intercepting and storing everything all the time. They probably don't actually look at it all though without a warrant (which is trivial to get at this point) or only in aggregate. Some might argue that since they have it but don't look at it they're not spying. For me, that's too close to the line. I'd prefer they couldn't collect it without a warrant. Sure, it might make their job a bit harder but those are the breaks. If you could see anything about anyone with the push of a button, would you refrain from pushing it?
Now that AC won't help me if they want to find me.... The NSA has been monitoring all communications in the United States since before 9/11. How do I know? I was one of the AT&T techs responsible for making sure all traffic carried on AT&T wire made it through the NSA. That is all POTs, cellphone, and internet data. A crap ton of information. At the time the NSA folks bragged they had recorded every single cellphone call made in the country since 1998. Pretty scary stuff. Some of this stuff made the news a few year ago. You may remember AT&T getting a get out of jail free card absolving them of any type of criminal or civil wrong doing. Have to love the government. The important thing to remember is most companies will do anything for a buck. Corporations may be people--but they certainly don't have any type of moral fiber. Heck,who remembers IBM's work with the Germans in the late 30's--the SS sure did like those lists of names the IBM computers would crank out...
"1. An intelligence service cannot be effective if its sources, methods, capabilities, and techniques are known to the adversary. Intelligence processes must be kept secret, even in an open society. This has been true for the history of our nation."
The NSA did not exist before the 1950s. The CIA did not exist before the 1940s. The idea of "classified information" did not exist before the early 1900s. The Espionage Act did not exist before 1917. The Computer Espionage law did not exist before 1986. The Espionage Act was not used against people for talking to reporters until the 1980s, and it was not used 6+ times by one president until Obama.
'2. Inasmuch as "monitoring rooms" are alleged — because their existence, capabilities, and numbers are NOT KNOWN beyond the assertions of a whistleblower with an admitted anti-war agenda — NSA is authorized to monitor foreign communications WITHIN THE US, and must be able to identify, discern, and target such communications within the sea of digital communications.'
The existence of the AT&T monitoring is known because of a guy inside of AT&T who spilled the beans. The larger monitoring program, whose real name we don't even know, was revealed by the New York Times. This revelation caused the Bush administration to start an FBI manhunt for the 'leaker' that used dozens of agents and spent untold amounts of money looking for the 'leak' for years on end. They never arrested anyone related to the leak, but they did find Thomas Drake, a scapegoat, who talked with a reporter about a boondoggle IT system that was failing to do it's job (something that Congress agreed with). He was not 'anti-war', he was 'anti boondoggle'. But he was also against the idea of spying on American citizens - and he clearly states that his involvement in whistleblowing was directly related to this activity at NSA. The government then had FBI agents raid his house and the house of his friends (almost all conservative republicans by the way), who they tracked down because they had filed an Inspector General complaint internally with the DoD several years prior (something, which by the way, is supposed to remain confidential so that the internal complaint process will not be hindered by anonymous tipsters fearing retaliation). His friends have stated that the technology they built was having its privacy controls stripped out and that they felt it was being used to spy on Americans. This is one of the fundamental reasons some of them told their stories.
Then, of course, there is James Bamford's book "The Shadow Factory", in which he interviewed people who worked at the Georgia NSA building - one specifically mentions listening on on conversations of US citizens overseas talking to loved ones back home, and the other person he interviewed wouldn't comment on it. I know you claim this is 'just journalists embedded with soldiers'. OK, so they are spying on soldiers then? Who is in charge of the military, the NSA? Because I thought that it was supposed to work the other way around.
Then there is the history of the NSA and/or the US military (in Bamford's other books, and in scattered sources like The Asylum by Leah McGrath Goodman) where they have pathways into organizations like Western Union, ITT, and the New York Mercantile Exchange.
"3. See 1. 4. How is what you assume NSA to be doing "vital to the interest of a dying empire"? Do you think the world would be a better place without the US, the West, and the ability to project and protect principles of freedom and liberal democracy, even if imperfectly? Would China, Russia, or a chaotic mix of Mideast states and transnational radials really be a better global steward?"
China - which owns US debt and is the US's manufacturnig base. The Mideast - which produces US's oil supply. Russia - which produces natural gas that our ally Europe depends upon for survival. Sorry I don't see how we are a 'steward' of anything, when any one of these countries could pull the plug and bring us down. If you read Henry Pau
"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied."
Would a burglar admit to being a burglar, unless he got caught? Let's wait for all of it to be proved, one day...
It always gives away the lack of insight from the writer.
Secondly the lack of anyone referencing USSID 18 goes even further to suggest that a lot
of folks here should do a little more research into big brother before spouting nonsense.
Secondly if you work at NSA it's not some big classified secret.
The NSA doesn't monitor its citizens. That would be a waste of time, because there are about a dozen other government organizations that do overtly have that in their charter, and they do it quite well. Now if we can only get that dirty dozen to talk to eachother....hmm....