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Microsoft Demos Metro UI For Enterprise Apps
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has demoed a working prototype of Microsoft Dynamics GP (an ERP package) running on Windows 8, with a full Metro UI. This is the first example of an enterprise app for the Windows 8 metro 'wall.' The one hour keynote is available online behind a short registration form ... (demos start around 40 minutes in). Screenshots available at source."
I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.
Or embrace this as an good time to invest that consultant money in switching to another platform.
This actually looks nice for a prototype! The data is well laid out. This is probably the first app that convinced me that Metro might work out in the end.
First thing I thought of was "huh, they re-implemented hp Dashboad for Unix from the 90's".
So it turns your zillion dollar ERP system into a Web 2.0-style interactive infographic that makes USA Today look information-dense?
I remember when Vista with new Outlook interface (ribbon?) was pushed down in the previous company I worked in, and for a common worker those changes weren't so pleasant to say the least. One guy bugged local IT department for two weeks regarding missing stuff. Wonder what will happen if he's forced to use metro...
If enough companies ignore it and continue putting out normal applications instead, Microsoft will have to deal with that. Metro isn't the sun, it's not inevitable if the market outright rejects it.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
I'm sorry, but unless you're contracted into a forced upgrade, I don't see why anyone should embrace Metro. If people don't break down and accept dealing with Metro, then it's going to have to go away. Maybe not in this version, but in the next. They can blindly persist, but ultimately they're going to need to concede if people just simply refuse to adopt it.
It might. PlaysForSure went away, Zune went away, various of those Live services went away. I even have the marketing slogan!
"Ride the Metro to see the Vistas out the Windows with Me!"
They can fix all their branding in one sentence!
Uh oh, I think I just found a new sig for a week.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
More charts & graphs for the MBAs to dick around with all day so they can micro-manage everyone who's actually useful.
Windows 8 tablet freezes in Microsoft keynote demo
Metrosexual apps in the Enterprise - who would of thought just a few years ago...
So was this the one where Metro froze to the point they had to use the extra tablet. I know this is just beta, but entering data is not an experimental feature. It is not like were playing Angry Birds. I hope that these things are cheap enough so firms can purchase a Redundant Array of Tablet Devices. Can't imagine what will happen when one freezes at a sales meeting, though.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
My smart money says is will reside in the land of Microsoft Bob and Clippy...
I am a developer working for an ISV selling third-party enhancements to MS Dynamics NAV (formerly called Navision). My bosses are at Convergence right now.
I certainly hope that MS doesn't roll this shite out to the rest of the "Dynamics" family. They have already hamstrung layout and created ridiculous UI faux-pas-es enough with their "Role Tailored Client" (tell me WHO else makes the default for deleting records be "YES"?!?!?).
This is just hideous. And I fear it is a-comin', like the shark in Jaws....
Not really. Apple didn't have to deal with PowerPC applications. They told the market to deal with it. Could Microsoft do this? Yes. Should they? Yes. Not saying I like Metro, I don't. But at some point, the get-off-my-lawn folks need to get over themselves, it's not 1995 anymore and a weak Microsoft stuck supporting multiple UIs isn't good for business.
I8-D
Not really. Apple didn't have to deal with PowerPC applications. They told the market to deal with it. Could Microsoft do this? Yes. Should they? Yes.
Why would anyone choose to run Windows if it didn't run their Windows apps?
Windows lives and dies on backward compatibility. Metrosexual is the best thing they've done in years... for people selling other operating systems.
As someone who dabbles in UI design, I've seen us go from orthogonal by necessity, to round by revolt, and now we're back to orthogonal again. How much of this is a passing fad. Never mind that the damn tiles UI is more about wasting space than putting display space to good use. I predict the DPIs will go higher the panels bigger, just to accommodate this lousy aesthetic.
Microsoft shouldn't be in the position to push aesthetics anymore. At one point they needed to push usability, but this goes far beyond that, resulting in something less usable. I rather like the special effects for movies, which I find are logical and innovative. At most Mocrosoft should support some skinning interface the way Qt apps do so that the USER or VENDOR gets to force their design on something. Given that MS still has lousy fixed-geometry windows all over in Windows 7, I vote no confidence in MS to deliver anything really usable.
Windows Phone will fail (sorry Nokia) and Win 8 will fail. It's not your call anymore Microsoft. And what you are pushing is too different. Remember the XP backlash of GREEN start button and RED [X]? That at least could be argued as usability enhancements. Now Metro goes the other way and decreases usability.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Apple didn't have the entrenched user base that MS, nor did it have the requirement to maintain backwards compatibility across several versions or the OS wouldn't sell.
I am John Hurt.
How flaky will the interface be with software from previous windows version? This is what the people who think about deploying it in enterprise will worry about. I am sure that Redmond will make some kind of consideration for Windows 7 and earlier 2008 NT-XP enterprise and enterprise server apps. But will application and driver api compatibility issues like the ones that plagued Vista, cause enterprise users to run for cover again. If a completely new and expensive server version of Office apps must now be used then look out it will kill the enterprise launch completely. As the enterprise consumer will choke on the costs without a doubt. The economy cannot handle another forced 10-20 billion dollar Microsoft bailout like the move from XP and Server 2003 was.
If again the user is expected to go out and update all their enterprise apps to ones that will actually work with 8 then it will bomb and being an Microsoft executive who decided to force another full update on the business world will make the share holders finally revolt in droves. The job security of King Steve might finally start to come into question as the shareholders meeting might begin to resemble England's house of commons under Cromwell! And we all know what happened to that king.
That would be a great idea, if only for the fact that the vast maturity of people stick with Windows due to legacy applications. Remove that and most have no reason to stay. Apple will be having a field day over Microsoft shooting itself in the foot by alienating its core users.
See this little weak, asthmatic, deformed, useless and defenseless animal nobody likes ? Well too bad it really sucks, 'cause it isn't going away, so his kind will rule us for another 10 generations at least. What are we gonna do about it ? *sigh*
Seriously, survival of the fittest, it works. Bring it back.
I don't care about monopolies, just use what you like and let those things that improve nothing for anybody die already.
It's not that hard.
Posted from Sabayon Linux with i3, windows manager's master race.
Segmentation Fault in "Life, Universe and Everything" at line 42. Don't Panic.
Surely its perfectly cromulent fo tag this article as such.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
it's not inevitable if the market outright rejects it.
Does that make Metro outevitable?
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Who is selling other OSs? Apple will only sell you an OS with a 2k hardware dongle. Linux is free.
Or maybe it will just be their Gnome 3.
...Microsoft comes closer to death on the desktop.
Long live Linux, but not that craptacular piece of shit called "OS X"!
For some reason, when you put "Windows" and "Me" so close together it made me really nervous.
As a developer and geek I totally agree with a lot of the comments here decrying this from a too-much-fluff, non-standard UI, and I dread-the-day-I-have-to-code-for-this perspective. It is very much my not my style.
OTOH, as a consultant and business person, I know that the percentage of my user base who will be completely and utterly enchanted by this UI will be well over 50%, with the level of enchantment being directly proportionally to the pay grade of the user (and, therefore, inversely proportional to the amount of time they actually spend using the ERP / CRM software).
Once again I am faced with the engineer's dilemma; ...or do I simply accept that the tastes of a society often choose sex appeal over efficiency, and go along with the whole thing, feigning enthusiasm for something I abhor simply to ensure myself a steady stream of development work for the next six years...
Do I try and fight it on principal - the way I refuse to play games on tablets because they're goofy toys and real games run on PCs?
I find it telling that the only screen shots they include in the article are ones of report screens. I don't see any data entry, you know the 99% of work people do in an ERP system. My guess is the interface for that is pretty much the same forms app look Dynamics has always had and or its awful to work with and they hope they can just distract procurement people with shiny until the check is signed.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Or is it just as crippled at WP7? Does domain support work with Intel chips only, or do the ARM tablets support it as well? Microsoft has fallen flat on their face with WP7, and I dont see Win8 being the savior of "Metro" or Windows Phone either. I predict many, many users will either stick with Win7 or shift to either OSX (shudder) or Linux.
The only variable I see is WHEN the shareholders revolt and toss Ballemer into the unemployment line! It only took them weeks to figure out the Kin was a failure, but for some odd reason, they think that if they just wait, WP7 and Metro will gain traction with users....strange.
You mean like LCARS?
Not really. Apple didn't have to deal with PowerPC applications. They told the market to deal with it. Could Microsoft do this? Yes. Should they? Yes. Not saying I like Metro, I don't. But at some point, the get-off-my-lawn folks need to get over themselves, it's not 1995 anymore and a weak Microsoft stuck supporting multiple UIs isn't good for business.
Actually, Apple provided several tools to ease that transition (hell, it HAD to!)
Fantastic JIT Compiling built into the OS, that worked SO well that Apple themselves left parts of the Finder and other OS pieces-parts as 68k code for several OS revisions.
"Fat Binaries", which like the later "Universal Binaries", allowed developers to package both 68k and PPC code in the same application bundle, with the OS seamlessly choosing the correct version to use.
Who is selling other OSs? Apple will only sell you an OS with a 2k hardware dongle. Linux is free.
...Only if your time is...
Sorry, old habits die hard. As I replied to Hairyfeet, it's high time for a truce...
I thought I'd give Metro a try, and while this UI makes sense for a tablet, it's complete CRAP for a keyboard and mouse (let alone trackball). Gestures have never worked for the desktop, and a UI that offers ZERO visual cues tot he user is beyond useless.
I'm baffled that Microsoft has essentially tossed decades of research into the trash in favor of a Tablet-centric UI. There is a reason why we have desktops and tablets... they are considerably different in form and function. Unifying the interface is an incredibly stupid move.
Mark my words, Windows 8 will be shunned worse than Vista on the desktop.
Sadly, Microsoft will probably consider it a success when it sells millions in the tablet and phone market.
Nice looking useless display forms. The real question is how the heck do you do full Order Entry with all the millions of controls and options? For that matter how do I run these on my iPad or iPhone?
This is Dynamics GP we're talking about. The UI is so horrendous that pretty much anything would be an improvement. Even giving it the Hot Dog Stand theme.
(I hope they fired the idiot that decided to change the MDI application to SDI without making a single change to the interface, so you have to constantly deal with your data entry windows falling behind the main window.)
If the devs change their own tools to use the Metro UI, maybe management in Redmond will understand how braindead the Metro UI is as it gets more and more impossible for the devs to actually do anything except show off fancy graphs and bullet points in meetings? OR.... maybe that's what they've done already and that's why they're churning out this UTTER CRAP and half expecting people to actually pay for it.
That's right folks, now "Windows" will either be a bunch of dimwit-sized square buttons that look like something from Fisher-Price, or "Core" which is nothing but the return of the CLI minus copy/paste, drag/drop or any of the other innovations brought to us by the nice folks over at Apple since the late 80s. It's really a joke but people aren't laughing because they know the executives will buy it and demand you use it.
I'm not one to give Microsoft a break, but I do give credit where credit is due. Im glad they are taking an initiative in moving away from the Frankenstein WIMP model that has plaqued even the best of programs out there. The first release of metro May be a little rough, but what do you expect? People bitch when Microsoft copies (when everyone else does it just as much) but when Microsoft actually tries to spearhead something new, people still bitch. It's not even the end of Q1 2012, and they are expecting to be launching by Q4 2012, so give the boys in Redmond a break, they are actually trying something new. When the finished product shows up, then you can bitch.
Who is selling other OSs? Apple will only sell you an OS with a 2k hardware dongle. Linux is free.
Um, Macs start at $600.
And anyone who thinks a Mac mini with a dual-core 2.3GHz i5 isn't powerful enough for the secretary, sales, accounting, doctor's office, boss' office, production manager's office, factory-floor, web-designer, code developer (not everyone compiles OSes or gigantic games), et frickin' cetera, and even some light "server" applications is simply delusional.
Period.
My smart money says is will reside in the land of Microsoft Bob and Clippy...
What did Bob and Clippy do to deserve Metro?
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Why would I want this on a tablet?
Remember there will be two types of Win 8 Metro tablets: ARM and Intel
The ARM tablet will have metro apps, a web browser and Office. No compatibility with almost 30 years of DOS/Windows software and from the looks of it, will not be able to join a domain. That is the low end tablet market. Where it will have to compete with $200 Kindle Fires and Color Nooks. It does not offer any real advantages there once you figure out it SUCKS trying to use Office on touchpad
The INTEL tablet will keep the Metro interface but add app compatibility and the ability to join a domain. However, at this point, you are now in the price range of an iPad. Again, once people figure out doing any real work on one of this things is "suboptimal" there is not much reason to not for an iPad which has 3 years of maturity and a 100,000 app head start.
The whole thing is baffling. The are betting the whole farm on getting people to switch to a version of Windows where they will purchase everything though an app store where Microsoft will make something off of every purchase.
vi +
So what would it take then? What server software and mac software "interfaces" are needed to do this that don't exist in some way now?
Is it really just Exchange/Outlook?
Think of all extra kilobytes!
then companies will switch. it simply won't matter. companies with HIPPA requirements will have to have updated anti-virus stuff. when that stops on XP, the companies will be forced to upgrade by law.
they did not invent the ipod, they did not invent buying music online, they did not invent video phones, they did not invent the mouse, they did not invent the internet, nor the web, they did not invent ethernet, they did not invent LCD, they did not invent smartphones, they did not invent Siri, they did not invent liquid polymer batteries, they did not invent outsourcing to dictatorships
for their system? because that is what they are moving towards - a system where you can only install software purchased from the Windows Store or wahtever they will call it. thats what Metro is moving to.
Microsoft tried this with Vista, and it flopped. The reasons were totally different of course (personally, I had no problem with the UI style on Vista, and think it was better than 7), but WindowsMe and Vista prove that MS doesn't always get its way. If the users don't like it, they simply don't upgrade. Customers don't care about what's "good for business", they want products that work well for them. They're already ignoring MS on phones and switching to Apple and Google en masse, so they might just be ready to switch away from MS on the desktop soon too.
and Kin and PlaysForSure and Zune and Hailstorm and Windows ME and Windows Mobile and...
Uhh, huh? Of course it supports domains. I don't even understand why you'd ask, and yes on ARM too.
I think Microsoft is on the right track - one OS to rule them all. Same experience on your phone, your tablet, and your desktop. I'm old school so I'll use the Aero style interface, but for most it will be very natural.
They're betting the farm on the fact that the only device 70% of users might need in 1 year is their phone. Seriously, think about that.
They want a compute continuum. You can just use your phone and plug a keyboard, mouse, monitor into it and it's a pretty fast Atom chip with SSD storage, 2 gigs of ram, and whatever monitor you want. Then you unplug it and it's a phone, same computer though. Maybe they sell a "laptop" with nothing but a keyboard and monitor and you slide the phone into it - instant portable laptop. Dumb Touchscreen device you connect wirelessly to your phone - instant tablet.
All on the same fucking device. That's god damn hot, I don't care what you say. Some people will need a full blown computer, but a lot of people just need web browsing, videos, and a few x86 apps here and there. You can easily do that on a ca. 2013 Atom phone with 2G of memory.
So how much accounting, sales order processing, customer relations management, HR, payroll,stock control and other business related software is available on a Mac? Or Linux?
That's the advantage Microsoft have, it's not just Office. So the day they break backwards compatibility, they're finished.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
A little over 12 years ago, just before Windows 2000 became available, Microsoft had a few OSes out: Win CE (gotta put that space in because it wasn't "WinCE" as in "the grimace you get just using it"), Win ME, and Windows NT.
I saw a professionally made poster combing those names: CE, ME, NT... it read something like "Microsoft introduces Windows CEMENT... hard as a rock, dumb as a brick". It was hilarious and well done.
Anyway, seeing your combo slogan reminded of that older bit of humor.
The first step though, before it goes away, is to try renaming it.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
I couldn't have said it better, & per my subject-line, I am in utter "110% agreement"...
Boy, lol?
"YOU'RE ON A ROLL" from the post I am replying to, & your others here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2740745&cid=39440485 regarding re-writing an OS into MOSTLY Assembly code (I've noted it here long ago before myself & HAVE in fact, often wondered what Windows would perform like, were it written STRICTLY for x86/64 cpus, especially since MS gave up on porting it to less used platforms like Alpha, MIPS RISC, PowerPC, etc./et al... )
APK
P.S.=> Like I said, "mod him up", because he's 'dead-solid-perfect RIGHT" about his reply on "good luck beating entrenchment" especially... of course, given the "Pro-*NIX" stance around here? Good luck on being modded up to the max of course... we ALL know how that works around here, if you state ANYTHING good about Microsoft OR Windows especially! apk
So how much accounting, sales order processing, customer relations management, HR, payroll,stock control and other business related software is available on a Mac? Or Linux?
Glad you asked!
My personal favorite in the ERP world is xTuple (formerly Open Mfg). They even have a free QuickBooks-Like version. Speaking as an ERP software dev. myself, this package is strong enough that I have seriously considered becoming a VAR for it.
Then, there are the longstanding AccountEdge/MYOB, and AppGen/Custom Suite (AppGen Custom Suite is pretty cool, IMHO). I also see FlexWare Accounting, which has a Manufacturing add-on. Don't know much about FlexWare; but it looks pretty complete.
Then there are the interesting database/app-generation systems, such as Omnis (which had the whole idea of "web apps" NAILED more than a decade ago), and, last but certainly not least, 4D, also sporting a wonderful web-app solution. Both are big database-oriented Application-Creation packages that have marched along for years, never quite getting traction, but never quite falling over, either! In fact, 4D's web server was eventually spun-off into its own product (name escapes me, sorry!), and has the enviable reputation of not only being faster that snot, but also has never been hacked... Both Omnis and 4D embraced the concept of being able to "publish" applications directly on the web, such that the apps retained all, or nearly all, of the look-and-feel of the "desktop" versions. Quite cool, actually.
And the hidden advantage is that pretty much all, if not all, of the Mac business software is actually cross-platform; so you get platform-independence "for free". What's not to like about that?!?
As far as CAD/CAE tools go, there are several choices. My personal favorite is VectorWorks, which whips all-over AutoCAD (but maybe not so much on Inventor). I have a longstanding Mac consulting client, who has to live in a world of architects who use AutoCAD, and he has zero problems using VectorWorks with their files, import or export. The only "problem" is that VectorWorks actually supports many things that AutoCAD does not; so he has to be somewhat careful not to use features that AutoCAD (by all rights, should, but) does not support. In fact, when AutoCAD became available (again) for Macs, he wasn't the slightest bit interested in switching away from VectorWorks. And although not widely known in this country, the extremely high-end CAD/CAM/CAE system Siemens PLM NX/UG (Unigraphics) has been available on OS X since at least 2009, and is also available on Linux.
And let's not forget Qt. It's a royal pain to develop in; but you can certainly churn out some pretty complex cross-platform apps in the environment. Eagle PCB is a good example of how advanced a Qt-based app can get... As a (now former, I guess) embedded developer, I used to lament the lack of good (or really, ANY) development tools for Macs. But even that has been (slowly) changing. Microchip now supports both Macs and Linux with MPLab X (helped along considerably by the acquisition of Hi-Tech, and their cross-platform C Compilers). And BTW, Microchip even addresses the question of "Why not just