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Elementary School Kids Explore the Moon At Close Range

Posted by samzenpus on from the permission-and-release-form dept.

sighted writes "The twin robotic spacecraft that make up the new GRAIL mission to map the moon's gravity include small cameras in addition to their primary scientific instruments. The first images from those cameras, as selected by school kids, were downlinked to Earth on March 20. 'MoonKAM is based on the premise that if your average picture is worth a thousand words, then a picture from lunar orbit may be worth a classroom full of engineering and science degrees,' said Maria Zuber, GRAIL mission principal investigator."

42 comments

  1. Some background material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some background material can be found in the article, "Far Side of the Moon."

    1. Re:Some background material by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In TFA, it was stated that

      "based on the premise that if your average picture is worth a thousand words, then a picture from lunar orbit may be worth a classroom full of engineering and science degrees,' said Maria Zuber, GRAIL mission principal investigator"

      I am trying not to rain on their parade, but ...

      Based on the societal structure now, wall street bankers, stock brokers and all those who work in financial industries are raking in multi-Giga-bucks

      On the other hand, how much are engineers, principal investigators, scientists making?

      And based on the social pecking order --- the engineers, scientists, principal investigators have to kow tow to those with $$$

      Let's face it: Science and Engineering aren't hot anymore

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    2. Re:Some background material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A whole classroom of willing future cubicle serfs to do the graft that will pay for some executives new boat a in couple of decades or so! Keep up the good work, state education/propaganda machine!

    3. Re:Some background material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am trying not to rain on their parade, but ...

      That's ok - I'll happily rain it it for you ;-). Any elementary school kid (interestingly the abbreviation MoonKAM suggests it was aimed at middle school kids) who is likely to pursue a science or engineering degree will doubtless have heard of Google and will have figured out that typing "dark side of moon" into Google and selecting the image option turns up far higher resolutions of the moon than a Logitech WebCAM mounted on a lunar satellite and also provides the exact same degree of interactivity (they too can select which image to download!).

    4. Re:Some background material by Lotana · · Score: 2

      Let's face it: Science and Engineering aren't hot anymore

      On the contrary: Science and Engineering are very hot... in Asia.

      US is still famous for their technical schools. Asians are going there in droves for a degree before comming back and getting excellent jobs. Engineers are highly respected there.

      If a kid is passionate about science/engineering let him do it along with Chinese language on the side. Once he gets his qualifications, emmigrate to Asia and rake in the money/enjoy his career.

    5. Re:Some background material by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

      If a kid is passionate about science/engineering let him do it along with Chinese language on the side. Once he gets his qualifications, emmigrate to Asia and rake in the money/enjoy his career

      As I am typing this, I am in Asia

      Engineers in Asia, like their peers in the States / Europe, aren't exactly "raking in money"

      In fact, my company is employing very qualified engineers - all having more than 15 years of experience in their respective field - in Asia and their wages are actually _lower_ than those who assembler cars for GM in the States

      Their income can't even begin to compare to bankers in Tokyo, Hong Kong, or Singapore

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    6. Re:Some background material by sjames · · Score: 1

      We need to teach them the power of solidarity as well. That way, once they're all busily being exploited by the basically worthless but mysteriously rich 1%, they can shut off Wall Street's routers all at once. The 1%'s deep seated sense of entitlement combined with raw animal panic will drive their blood pressure to record highs. One by one their aneurysms will pop like a string of firecrackers and the problem will be solved.

    7. Re:Some background material by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

      We need to teach them the power of solidarity as well. That way, once they're all busily being exploited by the basically worthless but mysteriously rich 1%, they can shut off Wall Street's routers all at once. The 1%'s deep seated sense of entitlement combined with raw animal panic will drive their blood pressure to record highs. One by one their aneurysms will pop like a string of firecrackers and the problem will be solved.

      Ahhhh... you have pinpointed the biggest weakness of the techies/nerds

      We are not "snake" enough

      We do whatever we are told, and we will try our very best to carry out our duty

      We even set impossible standards for ourselves

      99% is not enough

      99.9% is not enough

      We strive for 99.999% (Five 9's) or even 99.9999% (Six 9's)

      On the other hands, those who are in Wall Street - the "1%" - are snakes

      They know our weakpoint and they exploit us

      For the pittance that they paid us, we award them with wonderful devices, from servers with multiple redundancies to iPads

      For all our hard work, what do we get?

      On the other hand, the hundreds of billions of profits from the many amazing devices that the engineers/scientists all gone to line the pockets of those 1%

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  2. Darn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Given the summary title, I was hoping that we'd actually sent some kids into lunar orbit... as an elementary school teacher, I know a few I wouldn't mind sending.

    1. Re:Darn by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      sadly, no mod points today...

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  3. A thousand words by ringman8567 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Every time I see a picture is worth a thousand words I ask myself which takes up more disc space?

    1. Re:A thousand words by Nationless · · Score: 1, Funny

      A .txt document with 1000 random words gave me a 5.17 KB file. This value is an estimate since not all words are equal in the eyes of storage.

      For comparison here is a 5.17 KB image: http://www.dreslough.com/main/bandw/cutedrg3.gif.

      I've always been a fan of my personal variant of the saying; "A picture is worth a thousand words, but a word can inspire a thousand pictures."

    2. Re:A thousand words by treeves · · Score: 1

      Depends on the resolution, compression scheme and color depth of the picture, doesn't it? Certainly a small enough picture could take up the same space, but a decent sized photo is going to take more space than 1000 words, for sure.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    3. Re:A thousand words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always been a fan of my personal variant of the saying; "A picture is worth a thousand words, but a word can inspire a thousand pictures."

      Apparently that word is Gone...

      Gone

      The requested resource
      /main/bandw/cutedrg3.gif
      is no longer available on this server and there is no forwarding address. Please remove all references to this resource.

    4. Re:A thousand words by neonsignal · · Score: 1

      not to mention the potential compression of the text file...

    5. Re:A thousand words by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 0

      5.17 KB image: http://www.dreslough.com/main/bandw/cutedrg3.gif

      As the AC above me has stated, that file is gone

      However, there is another file with 5.4K filesize on the same server

      http://www.dreslough.com/main/bandw/LYNX.GIF

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    6. Re:A thousand words by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      It's a hotlinking thing. Go to http://www.dreslough.com/main/bandw first, then click the proper image link from that list.

    7. Re:A thousand words by Nationless · · Score: 0

      Hah! You fell into the same trap as me. It's just hotlinking protection. Refresh the page and it appears.

      Hindsight 20-20.

    8. Re:A thousand words by hackertourist · · Score: 0

      If a picture is 1000 words, a 30-minute video would be 1000x24x1800=43.2 million words. I dunno about disk space, but that's a LOT of shelf space.

    9. Re:A thousand words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A picture is worth a thousand words, but a word can inspire a thousand pictures."

      And that word is "porn".

  4. How they gettin' back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Come on.

    Everyone knows a kid or ten they'd like to put into lunar orbit.

  5. Can you see evidence of the moon landings... by djnanite · · Score: 1

    ...with that onboard camera? Please?

    To hush the anti-moon-landing conspiracists once and for all.

    1. Re:Can you see evidence of the moon landings... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course you can't - they happened in a hangar in Arizona.

    2. Re:Can you see evidence of the moon landings... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2

      Can you see evidence of the moon landings...

      Here you go:

      http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2011/09/lunarphotostop.jpg

      Of course there's no way you can convince those conspiracy theorist morons... They'd just tell you those pictures are faked too.

    3. Re:Can you see evidence of the moon landings... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I can almost guarantee that the footprints aren't there anymore but the flag is and so are old components. Also it's 2012 and they are still using low-res black and white cameras...

    4. Re:Can you see evidence of the moon landings... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... wanna bet who's gonna be first to Van Allen belts? First to burst in flames I mean ...

    5. Re:Can you see evidence of the moon landings... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course there's no way you can convince those conspiracy theorist morons... They'd just tell you those pictures are faked too.

      That's because of the Conspiracy Theory Catch 22. You either aren't "in the know" like the conspirators and apparently the conspiracy theorist, or you are a conspirator and trying to cover it up.

  6. Praise Jebus! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    "What might seem like just a cool activity for these kids may very well have a profound impact on their futures," Ride said. "The students really are excited about MoonKAM, and that translates into an excitement about science and engineering."

    Praise the Lord! There's nothing specific about the M-O-O-N - that spells Jesus - in the Bible!

    I think I'll think I'll study science some more - M-O-O-N -that spells science.

    Yes, I'm being a jerk towards the Fundamentalist-Christian loonie-toonies, but they deserve it.

    Up next, I'm gonna sue the "controversy" that Evil-u-tion doesn't teech Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny creating mankind 6,000 years ago.My lawyer tells me to sign my name as M-O-O-N. That spells my name - praise Jejus!

    Yep, I am intentionally being an ass. I want to shame those motherfucking superstitious religious assholes - ya know - the Christian Taliban here in the goddamn US of Christian Fuck me up the ass Us of A.

    There's a point where tolerance gets ridiculous.

    Disagree with me? Fine.

    I'm a Santa Claus Fundie HE knows when you're naughty or nice and unlike Jesus, actually gives you presents. Fucking Jesus! All he says is carry guns, keep loving people from marrying (No homos marrying), fuck the poor, make all the money you can, kill Muslims and Jews, and vote Republican. Oh, and dump all of your shit into the environment.

    Yesseree! Praise hebus!

    Hey! Why the fuck are people names jerimiha gimmnme all their money?!?

    OK Fine, Praise Hebus! Hebus saves!!

    Smoke Pot and save the Lord! or whatever the fuck I'm supposed to say.

    1. Re:Praise Jebus! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Troll

  7. Dear Sagan, deGrasse Tyson, Cox.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where were you when I was a kid? :(

  8. Generational Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It must be because I'm old, but all I have to say is, "Hey you kids, get off my lunar (surface)!"

  9. Looking at these pictures, 1000 words weighs more by Sean · · Score: 1

    These pictures are terrible. My phone takes better pictures than these.

  10. The kids get to choose? by Reasonable+Facsimile · · Score: 1

    How many pictures are chosen because some kid "sees a bunny"?

  11. Yet another sensationalist headline by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

    "if your average picture is worth a thousand words, then a picture from lunar orbit may be worth a classroom full of engineering and science degrees"

    This is the dumbest thing I've heard in my life. And I don't say that lightly, this is, quite literally, the dumbest thing I have heard anyone say, ever.

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    1. Re:Yet another sensationalist headline by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      "This is the dumbest thing I've heard in my life. And I don't say that lightly, this is, quite literally, the dumbest thing I have heard anyone say, ever.

      From which one is tempted to infer that you are:

      * Deaf;
      * Raised by wolves until yesterday, just got back to civilization;
      * A space alien from a planet where people never say foolish things;
      * All of the above

      because the rest us hear things that dumb every day at least once.

      rgb

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  12. Re:Looking at these pictures, 1000 words weighs mo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hello, my name is Mr. ThePoint, it seems that you have missed me, so I am just calling back to try and get in touch with you.

  13. Surprisingly poor quality images by PassMark · · Score: 1

    I don't get it.
    Why spend $375 million sending a camera to the moon only to return such poor quality images?

    I looked a dozens of them, they all seem small, grainy, out of focus and black and white. (of course the moon being mostly grey might explain this last point)

    Couldn't they afford a better camera? My smartphone would have done a better job.

    1. Re:Surprisingly poor quality images by Lotana · · Score: 1

      Couldn't they afford a better camera? My smartphone would have done a better job.

      Can your smartphone stand the rigors of launch and lunar environment? Looks like you need to send something specifically designed for such difficult requirements.

      Now that can't be cheap. And the camera is not the focus of the mission. It already adds pointless weight without giving any scientific results. Add to that how NASA's funding is being cut at every opportunity in all areas, I am shocked that the camera was included at all! So yes, I would imagine that they couldn't afford a better camera.

    2. Re:Surprisingly poor quality images by PassMark · · Score: 1

      Can your smartphone stand the rigors of launch and lunar environment?

      Yes, in all probability.

      The $150 Edge-of-Space Camera: MIT Students Beat NASA On Beer-Money Budget.
      http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-150-space-camera-mit-students-beat-nasa-on-beer-money-budget/

    3. Re:Surprisingly poor quality images by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 1

      'Edge of space' is well below the Van Allen belts. The cost of space-electronics comes from having to harden them against radiation. Cosmic rays can and will cause bits to flip at random, so you need to harden them against all but the most energetic particles -- something in the upper atmosphere (which is where these high-altitude balloon cameras are), is protected by the same magnetic fields that protect us on the ground.

      The other option is to stick your electronics in a lead box (see Juno), but a camera won't work very well that way.

      And if imaging were the primary purpose of the mission (such as on LRO), then the camera would be much better, and much more expensive. GRAIL is intended to map the gravity of the moon, and the MoonKAMs are attached for the sake of reaching out to schoolchildren, not for science, since LRO is doing a fine job of that, so they went with something cheaper.

    4. Re:Surprisingly poor quality images by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These cameras are a secondary, cheap, educational payload. The prime mission of the two GRAIL spacecraft is to map the lunar gravity field. These cameras are secondary to that - the project saw the opportunity to take an EPO payload - and with the budget available, managed to fit 4 cameras to each spacecraft. It is totally false to say that $375m was spend sending 'a' camera to the moon 'only' to return such poor quality images. $375m was spent to send two spacecraft to the moon. The 8 cameras are secondary to the prime science mission.

      One point worth making - the educational value of an image - even of 'poor quality' - in the hands of a middle schooler, that THEY targeted - is infinitely higher than no image at all.

      You smartphone, by the way, would have been very rapidly friend by the radiation that lies beyond the Van Allan belts. Moreover, the filesize of its images would likely swamp the quite modest downlink rate from the two spacecraft ( which varies between about 8 and 128kbps)

  14. So do i... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Elementary School Kids Explore the Moon At Close Range"

    Yep, so do I when I get drunk enough...the size of the moon just keeps getting bigger and bigger and....