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US Puts Tariff On Chinese Solar Panels
retroworks writes "Two stories in Digitimes make a puzzle of economic policy. U.S. and European tax incentives and stimulus increase steady demand for solar panels. The Chinese government subsidizes production of solar panels to meet this growing demand. The U.S. and EU complain, and place tariffs on Chinese solar panels. Do allegations that China has used government funding to subsidize the production trump our desire for cheaper solar power? Subsidizing demand led to subsidized production. In other words, one market interference (subsidized demand for solar) leads to its counterpoint, government tariff and taxation of the same product."
"they tuk uuur juuubs" idiots
get back to us in 10-20 years from now and tell us if YOU are still employed.
obviously you are well employed and proud of it.
but what is now, won't always be. I was once like you are: young, arrogant and thought I owned the world.
THINGS CHANGE.
but people like you, in your current mind-frame, are NOT HELPING.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I'm all for placing tariffs on all Chinese imports. Yes, that raises prices on our end with respect to imports from China. China has a history of dumping (look up the term). The US needs to place tariffs on Chinese products to reduce the impact of its dumping procedures.
Tariffs on solar panels from China are not inconsistent with subsidies on solar panels. Why? Because while subsidies (artificially) increase demand in a good; tariffs (artificially) decrease demand in a good. The combined affect gently nudges people to purchase solar panels not produced in China.
And that, my friends, is how tariffs and subsidies can apply to the same market.
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
The US gives money to people who buy solar panels, while adding an import tariff on the same solar panels that will be tacked on to the end user price. What was the point of the exercise?
The point is plainly obvious: Equalize the manufacturing playfield. Solar panel production is not a static industry. It is a growth industry.
Subsidizing production in one nation hurts development of the industry in another. In contract, subsidizing use in one country helps production in all countries.
However if you subsize production in one, then a use subsidiy amplifies the problem.
The US just fixed that.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
And what's wrong with China subsidizing panels? WE subsidize our products (hybrid cars, corn, sugar, banks, mortgage companies, solar companies like Solyndra, etc) . So it's wrong when China does it, but okay when the EU/US do it? Hypocrites.
Nothing is WRONG with a govt subsidizing an industry per se. But the appropriate response is to apply tarrifs.
If you subsidize an industry this may make sense inside the country where the subsidies reside. There it is a level playing field because all companies have access. It may be good for the country because they want to build up that industry and overcome an economic hump, meet a national strategy like oil security, create employment, or just to satisty internal political harmony.
But when you sell the products internationally it hurts companies outside. The remedy is tarrifs.
Other countries should fee free to (and do) apply tarrifs to goods from outside that harm domestic industry.
There's no Hypocrisy at all. It's exactly the right thing to do. However 5% is too low.
The only reason this does not happen more is that tarrifs can launch a cycle of retribution when thought punitive. It's easier to let it slide usually. The places you care about dumping are in rapidly growing industries. There the early mover advantage can be too big to ignore.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The subsidizes are to promote solar panels usage (generally a good thing) while the tariff is to counteract China's subsidies (dumping). Note, this is purely for China and not for solar panels made in other countries, especially those made locally. Letting China have such a large advantage due to China's subsidies would only hurt the US in the long term (see situation with rare earth metal as an reference). If you are complaining about the free market, well it's not already free due to China's subsidies and this would only level the playing field.
Because that's exactly what they did with the mining industry and rare earths? The US was, at one point, the largest supplier in the world of rare earths. You didn't dig them all up, they're still there in the ground, though today there's almost no rare earth production in the US.
What happened? China flooded the market with low cost minerals whose production was effectively subsidized by the significantly less stringent environmental controls, and US-based business couldn't keep up. And of course now that there's no rare earth production outside of China, they've started hoarding it and are interfering with and manipulating the world market.
In other words... China may be taking a loss right now, but will they still be 5 years from now?
Don't forget about the numerous successful security breaches and attempts by the Chinese to get solar cell secrets before China opened the floodgates on solar cells made cheaper than material cost.
Pure and simple -- this was an aggressive act to put a US industry six feet under, and because there was partisan politics involved, Congress sat on their hands until the US industry got turfed.
Will these measures be too little too late, time will tell. However, do we want another industry that is permanently tied to China, like steel making, consumer devices, chip making, and many others. If we have no solar industry, China gains a strategic advantage of being able to not be as dependent on oil while Western interests go into the black hole called the Middle East. We already reached peak oil and peak coal; it is only going to get more expensive from here.
How would YOU feel if you just went to bed at 9 or 10, and then suddenly your bosses wake you up at midnight to work another 12 hour shift?
If I was a typical Foxconn employee, I would probably feel happy about it. When Foxconn employees were asked what they would like to see changed in their workplace, their number one request was LONGER shifts. Most rural Chinese marry young, have their only child, and then one parent often heads off to the city to earn extra money while the grandparents help raise the baby. Since the father can do heavier labor, he is more useful on the farm, so it is the mother who leaves for the factory job. These women are not interested in more leisure time. They want to go home to their families. So the more extra hours they can work, the faster that day will come.
The typical Foxconn employee is not you, and does not share your lifestyle and motivations. So stop trying to project your values onto them.
No wonder these people are jumping off roofs.
Foxconn's suicide rate is lower than the average rate in China.
You forget about the technological development issue. The Chinese government subsidizing their panels, means that Chinese research into solar panel technology will increase. If the US and EU do nothing, then interest in the US and EU developing solar panel technology will decrease, and we will be at the mercy of China for suitable panels and China can then raise prices. See what's happening with rare earth minerals. That's bad enough and there isn't as much technology involved.
Violation of OSHA
Violation of osha hell that is straight up violation of DOT regs. No driver shall... There are explicit rules for how much you can work. By federal law. 70 is the max btw... And that is only if you have a 36 hour break.
Companies like this need to be turned in and put out of business. One DOT audit and that place would be shut down. Those rules were made to not only protect the workers but to create less accidents.
Please *PLEASE* turn them in.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/about/outreach/consumers/safthotline.htm
1-888-DOT-SAFT call it now please. This is for the safety of not only those people but everyone who drives near them. There is a shortage of good drivers. They would have no trouble getting work elsewhere. Probably at higher pay too.
I have seen too many rolled over trucks and the like to have any sympathy for that business. Most of the time it is guys like your old boss who care nothing for the welfare of anyone else but himself.
There are gov regs to control this. They were invented just because of idiots like your old boss. You dont even need a union involved with this.
It will basically go down like this. They will show up tear him a new one. Give him warnings to clean up his mess (about 6months to a year). Then show up and give him hefty fines if he hasnt cleaned up. Give him another 6 months to clean up. After that they will pull all of his vehicles permits. In effect putting him out of business.