Slashdot Mirror


UK MPs Threaten New Laws If Google Won't Censor Search

It's not just Japan that wants to regulate how Google displays search results: judgecorp writes "A committee of British MPs and peers has asked Google to censor search results to protect privacy and threatened to put forward new laws that would force it to do so, if Google fails to comply. The case relates to events such as former Formula One boss Max Mosley's legal bid to prevent Google linking to illegally obtained images of himself."

48 of 154 comments (clear)

  1. "Gossip" Flag? by msobkow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The search engines from Google and elsewhere already flag sites that are "spam" or which host "malicious content."

    Maybe they need to add a "gossip" flag as well.

    Unfortunately there would be no shortage of lawsuits from "entertainment magazines" if they did so.

    And that's really the crux of the problem. If Google capitulates to people who want their search results censored, it's just a matter of time before the censored sites sue Google for the censorship.

    So really Google has a choice between being sued by the censors for not complying, or sued by the censored for complying. Either way, someone expects to be paid for doing nothing useful to society, as is always the case when there is a "big money" company or business involved in the equation.

    The UK is free to block Google entirely if they so choose. And good riddance to them, the Chinese, and every other nation that thinks their censorship laws trump the free access of an international resource.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by samjam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "If Google capitulates to people who want their search results censored"

      I think you meant:

      If Google capitulates to people who want MY search results censored

    2. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by msobkow · · Score: 2

      It's pretty obvious why Google opts not to do the censorship. There's only one person or company to sue them in that case.

      But if they comply with the censorship demands, they're open to dozens or hundreds of lawsuits from everyone who has been censored.

      It's simple math in the end: The potential expense of one lawsuit is always less than the potential expense of hundreds of lawsuits.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by TheMathemagician · · Score: 2

      Please don't hate on the UK because some of our politicians are assclowns. This has zero chance of becoming UK law.

    4. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      In the Max Mosley case the pictures were illegally obtained and possibly violated his human rights (in the EU a person has the right to a private life). If that is the case then it would seem that Google has a legal obligation to remove illegal images.

      I'm not saying that the law is necessarily right to deem these images illegal, but if they are then Google, like any other company, has to comply with the law.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 2

      Look up "sovereign". UK govt is sovereign. Google is not.

      Google is screwed.

    6. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by asdf7890 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It isn't just the legal implications. They would have to setup a system (infrastructure, allotted person time, and so forth) to implement and manage the relevant filters, to deal with appeals, and other complications. All that before anyone had started taking legal action. They are not going to volunteer for that sort of hassle.

    7. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

      Google pulled out of China and redirected to Hong Kong because of said Chinese censorship requests.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    8. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by Woek · · Score: 2

      The analogy is a bit off but I strongly agree with the sentiment that Google is not responsible for what people put on the internet; it just indexes it to help them find what they are looking for. This is killing the messenger!

    9. Re:"Gossip" Flag? by demonbug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the Max Mosley case the pictures were illegally obtained and possibly violated his human rights (in the EU a person has the right to a private life). If that is the case then it would seem that Google has a legal obligation to remove illegal images.

      I'm not saying that the law is necessarily right to deem these images illegal, but if they are then Google, like any other company, has to comply with the law.

      Google isn't hosting the images. Wouldn't it make more sense to go after the people who are hosting the images and/or put them up in the first place? I realize that Google is a big foreign company, but that doesn't mean they should take over law enforcement responsibility just because the EU/UK can't be arsed to track down the actual offenders. "I saw it in a Google search, so it must be their responsibility." It seems that it is getting to the point where Google needs to put disclaimers on all search results pages for the small minds in the British and EU parliament - something like, "Google is not responsible for the content of outside websites linked in our search results, you twit!"

  2. Illegal images? Not really. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's that Max Mosley doesn't want people to know that in private he enjoys orgies while dressed as a Nazi.

    1. Re:Illegal images? Not really. by 91degrees · · Score: 2

      Isn't that reasonable though? I don't want the world knowing about any of my fetishes either.

      The behaviour may seem a little strange perhaps, but it's pretty harmless. The only harm is that it may upset certain groups who were persecuted by the Nazis, which means that not telling anyone about it reduces that harm considerably.

    2. Re:Illegal images? Not really. by jdgeorge · · Score: 4, Informative

      The point is, the law already covers this. The defamation is done by the people who post the content, not by Google failing to censor its search results. The people who are posting the content should be sued, not the owner of the wall where they posted the pictures.

    3. Re:Illegal images? Not really. by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Isn't that reasonable though? I don't want the world knowing about any of my fetishes either.

      Do some research on who Max Moseley's father was.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:Illegal images? Not really. by Hentes · · Score: 2

      No, the people who made the pictures available in the first place should be sued for breach of privacy. After it's out in the wild it should be fair game for everyone to repost. Defamation only applies when the statement in question is untrue.

  3. Fuck you, MPs. by neokushan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why should Google have to censor its search results? All Google is doing is indexing and displaying stuff that's already on the internet. It should be the people who posted it that have to take it down, not Google. Trying to censor Google, for whatever reason, completely undermines one of the things that makes the internet as brilliant as it is.

    --
    +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
  4. Mr Mosley by Spad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Max Mosley is an idiot; all he's doing with his legal action is drawing *more* attention to his Nazi-themed orgies and ensuring that, even if he's successful, instead of people finding stories and images about said orgies when they search for him, they'll find stories and images about him trying to censor the stories and images about said orgies.

    It's hard to claim it's a privacy issue when it's already in the public domain.

    1. Re:Mr Mosley by Lluc · · Score: 3, Informative

      Of course, this has been known as the Streisand Effect for almost 10 years now.

    2. Re:Mr Mosley by Apps · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think that it is more a matter of principal than the publicity
      He sued the News of the World who had to retract the Nazi claim
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosley_v_News_Group_Newspapers_Limited#The_Nazi_allegation
      I even believe that they had to retract the orgy claim! (can't find the reference)

      But then went after them and exposed the phone hacking scandal which brought the newspaper down,
      This is still ongoing and more News Corp / Rupert Murdoch investigations are continuing.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Mosley#European_privacy_laws

      While I am not sure that going after Google will do anything, he has to have some way of being disassociated with "Nazi Orgies" when they were not Nazi nor orgies!!

    3. Re:Mr Mosley by mr_stark · · Score: 2

      Max Mosley.... his Nazi-themed orgies

      That is exactly the reason why he is taking legal action. The whole Nazi themed bit was made up* by the News of the World to sell more news papers. Yet hear you are repeating it as if it were true. I'm no fan of MM - he may be a pervert but he's not a Nazi pervert.

      * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/24_07_08mosleyvnewsgroup.pdf

      Page 54, section 232

      --
      I can't think of anything witty right now
    4. Re:Mr Mosley by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      He knows this - and he is fully accepting that the cat is out of the bag (he talks about it openly in interviews, for example). What he's doing is "taking one for the rest of us" to put laws into place so that what happened to him (the exposure of his private life, captured during a time when an expectation of privacy was legitimate) can't easily happen to someone else.

      Now, this does seem like an exercise in trying to staple gun sand to the wall (witness the Ryan Giggs superinjunction debacle), but it certainly is a privacy issue. He's not trying to retroactively put everything back into the box, just make it a little more difficult for other people's boxes to be opened.

    5. Re:Mr Mosley by Rogerborg · · Score: 2
      Indeed, as the judgement clearly showed, Max Mosely only commissioned a perfectly standard S&M incarceration scenario in which the use of German language, German accents and German uniforms was completely co-incidental.

      *WINK*.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    6. Re:Mr Mosley by jo_ham · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He did get a bum rap. Plus, it's hardly good business sense for the hookers (or the business that manages them) - word gets around. You think they'll see repeat business from him or anyone connected to him?

      I see you're trying to bring patent trolls into this (for some reason?!) Slashdot seems to be *all about* privacy until someone actually tries to do something about it.

      Also, where do you get off judging his sexual preferences, claiming it somehow justifies what happened to him. So what? If he was just fucking them one at a time with the lights off, missionary style while the others waited their turn outside then it would be "less weird" and thus subject to more stringent privacy?

      His argument regarding the release of the information in a sleazy red top was that it was in no way "relevant" news to the wider public. This isn;t about whistleblowers, or patent trolls (?! again, wtf?!), or something like a politician running on an anti-gay platform getting caught with his cock up a guy's ass. It was a private (yet famous) person having their privacy violated to sell newspapers.

    7. Re:Mr Mosley by BBadhedgehog · · Score: 2

      Point of order sir. I have a number of friends who work in the adult services industry and they are certainly not the disease-ridden, duplicitious individuals you are generalising them to be.

      Nick

      --
      Will you PLEASE F off with the Fing beta now?
    8. Re:Mr Mosley by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      You're just jealous.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  5. New Law (Hypothetically) by Crasoose · · Score: 2

    Twitter user posts illegally obtained photos someone else, Google search results have Twitter in them, Google must remove Twitter from it's search results? That doesn't seem wildly excessive.

  6. What the UK MPs really mean by Valacosa · · Score: 4, Funny

    Translation: Collecting, cross-referencing, and archiving personally-identifiable information is the job of the government.

    --
    "Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
  7. Google and Others by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 2

    should block access from the UK and Japan for a week. Sure the stock price might take a brief hit but uncle with all this whiny BS. Let them go back to the internet stone age.

    1. Re:Google and Others by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      And in retaliation, I would love for the UK and Japanese governments to seize local Google assets for eminent domain reasons, and create a Google (UK) public body.

      Google isn't above the law, and this entire story is about forcing Google to comply with a court order - if it doesn't, then it deserves punishment. If it retaliates against that punishment, then it deserves to, essentially, die a corporate death in the courts jurisdiction.

    2. Re:Google and Others by Hentes · · Score: 2

      Still better than national governments making laws on the global Internet. I can influence Google by choosing not to use their services. I have no way of influencing the UK government.

  8. Re:Good thing (sort of) by TeXMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Except for the fact that I'm not aware of cases when those who passed a law being actually held responsible for it when the law is then challenged in court or otherwise "be bad"

    --
    "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
  9. Try reading the article by andrewbaldwin · · Score: 4, Informative

    First off - this is a report by MPs - not even on the first step of becoming law - despite somewhat hyperbolic reporting.

    Second - it clearly states that a free press / freedom of speech are paramount

    Third - the only "Censoring" of Google etc. is a requirement to follow the terms of a court order - in the UK the courts are separate and distinct from the government.

    Exec summary pasted below [from a PDF document - hence some formatting funnies]

    A strong, free and vibrant press is essential to the good operation of democracy. Over the past 12 months, the culture and activities of the UK media have become the focus of widespread public concern, particularly in light of the phone hacking scandal. The balance between privacy and freedom of expression is at the heart of these debates about the role of the media.
    We have considered how this balance should be struck, who should determine where the balance lies and how decisions, once taken, can be enforced. In making recommendations, we have been guided by the followingâ"
    â The fundamental right to freedom of expression lies at the heart of this debate.
    â The right to privacy is equally important. It is universal and can only be breached if there is a public interest in doing so.
    â Although definitions of public interest change from time to time, an over-arching definition of public interest is the peopleâ(TM)s general welfare and well being; something in which the populace as a whole has a stake. It is not the same as that which is of interest to the public.
    â We support the freedom of the press. The vitality of national and local media, in all its forms, is essential to the good operation of democracy.
    â The rule of law in protecting the right to privacy should be upheld by all. If a judge has made a decision, based on hearing the full evidence in a case, that decision should be respected by those who have not heard all the evidence.
    â Justice should be accessible to all. Protection of the right to privacy should not be available only to the wealthy few.
    â The Press Complaints Commission was not equipped to deal with systemic and illegal invasions of privacy. A strong, independent media regulator is essential to balance the competing rights of privacy and freedom of expression.
    â The law must apply equally to all forms of media: print, broadcast and online.
    It is important that privacy injunctions are obtained in circumstances which justify the intervention of the law; injunctions should not be too freely or easily obtainable. Departures from the principle of open justice should be exceptional. We believe that courts are now striking a better balance when dealing with applications for privacy injunctions.
    We conclude that a privacy statute would not clarify the law. The concepts of privacy and the public interest are not set in stone, and evolve over time. We conclude that the current approach, where judges balance the evidence and make a judgment on a case-by-case basis, provides the best mechanism for balancing article 8 and article 10 rights.
    Interim injunctions granted in one of the legal jurisdictions in the United Kingdom should be enforceable in the other two UK jurisdictions in the same way as final injunctions are.
    It is important that court orders apply to all forms of media equally. The growth of the internet and social networking platforms is a positive development for freedom
    of of expression, but new media cannot be seen to be outside the reach of the law. We recommend that the courts should be proactive in directing the claimant to serve notice on social networking platforms and major web publishers when granting injunctions. We also recommend that major corporations, such as Google, take practical steps to limit the potential for breaches of court orders through use of their products and, if they fail to do so, legislation should be introduced to force them to. An effective deterrent against future breaches of injunctions onli

    1. Re:Try reading the article by gman003 · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's true, but there's also another bit:

      In the UK, the courts have far, far more power than courts in the US. Stuff like super-injunctions ("you are not allowed to tell a member of parliament about this injunction") or ASBOs ("judges can now basically make up laws and apply them to a case") would never fly in the US - the legislature and executive branches would knock them down faster than you can say "constitutional crisis".

      Basically, in the US system of checks and balances, the judiciary has no way to go on the offensive. They can block laws and actions, after they've already been passed, but that's about it. In the UK, the courts can actually be proactive instead of just reacting to what the rest of the "government" (US-sense) does.

      There's probably a historic reason for the difference, but I'm not enough of a historian to know exactly what it is.

    2. Re:Try reading the article by Tim+C · · Score: 2

      I don't know the exact details, but remember that both of those things (super-injunctions and ASBOs) are only possible because of Acts of Parliament making them possible. Parliament writes the laws (proposed by an MP/group of MPs, voted on by the Commons, if passed then voted on by the Lords, optional back and forth if the Lords reject it and amendments are made, finally either passed or canned), the courts enforce them.

      Also, super-injunctions do more than your example; they prevent absolutely anyone from discussing the injunction, including the fact that the injunction exists.

      ASBOs (Anti-Social Behaviour Orders) are meant to deal with people who are being a nuisance, but not technically breaking a specific law, or breaking a minor one repeatedly in such a way as to cause a nuisance. E.g. someone may be regularly getting drunk, shouting at passersby and pissing in the street. Nothing they can be locked up for necessarily, but you don't want them doing it either and causing distress, so you have the option of giving them an ASBO preventing them from, say, being drunk in public. If they breach the ASBO, that potentially carries a jail term. In practice however there is a perception in some quarters that they're handed out like candy, sometimes for things that people can't realistically be expected to comply with (you can't expect an alcoholic to be sober in public - they need help, not an ABSO, etc) and poorly enforced (the prisons are too full to jail every petty ASBO-breaker).

    3. Re:Try reading the article by SleazyRidr · · Score: 2

      It's kinda like saying "no offense" right after you insult someone.

      Freedom of speech is important, but we should sensor the internet

      Is the equivalent of:

      Your mother's a whore, no offense.

  10. Only one end by scotts13 · · Score: 2

    I don't get people. You can have something that SEARCHES, or something that doesn't. Once you start censoring the search, the engine becomes, to a varying extent, a PR outlet - and useless. But each person or organization that doesn't want THEIR pet bugaboo found apparently assumes they're the only one with that right.

  11. Technical ignorance by RogueLeaderX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cases like this show an understandable lack of understanding about how this technology works.

    As others have pointed out, going after an indexing service is pointless; however, I find it understandable. Google is the first point of contact to this content for millions of internet users. So, looking from the outside, I can understand how someone would confuse that with providing access to the content.

    I hope that Google's laywers are able to make courts in the UK and Japan understand their role in the internet ecosystem.

  12. Re:hundreds by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Funny

    "The lawsuits of the many outweigh the lawsuits of the one."

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  13. These laws sound terrible until by concealment · · Score: 5, Interesting

    These laws sound like the worst thing ever until someone posts your credit record online, a nude picture of your daughter, or your copyrighted code that you worked on for ten years and hoped to sell to finance your retirement.

    Then, suddenly, they sound great.

    The UK has a point about protecting privacy. If any point of failure can overcome the Streisand effect, it's the search engines. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    1. Re:These laws sound terrible until by TheKnave · · Score: 2

      Protecting privacy isn't the point. The point is that it's not Google's job to enforce the protection of your privacy - they're not hosting the breach - nor can Google stop what's happening on twitter / elsewhere on the web.

      If google implemented some sort of magical context understanding blocking filter the people who cared would simply look for that gossip hit elsewhere and post it on twitter / whatever.

      If anything this is more akin to the music industry insisting that ISPs should block what they want to block.

    2. Re:These laws sound terrible until by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 3, Insightful

      These laws sound like the worst thing ever until someone posts your credit record online, a nude picture of your daughter, or your copyrighted code that you worked on for ten years and hoped to sell to finance your retirement.

      Then, suddenly, they sound great.

      The UK has a point about protecting privacy. If any point of failure can overcome the Streisand effect, it's the search engines. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

      That's exactly why these laws shouldn't exist. It's why the freedom of speech is explicitly called out in the US Bill of Rights--because it's such a clearly bad idea, but seems so reasonable when it's something you want to suppress. If I had my way, nobody would be allowed to talk about Justin Beiber or the cast of The Jersey Shore ever again. Luckily for them and their fans, I can't get my way.

      A big part of being a good person is making it impossible to be otherwise when you would be tempted to do something immoral. We (used to) have checks and balances encoded in our laws that are probably very inconvenient at times, but they were added with the foresight that simple restraint wouldn't be enough when times get tough. It's human nature.

      Another thing about human nature: I guaran-fucking-tee you, nothing can overcome the Streisand effect. It's practically a law of physics. It existed before the internet ever did, and will continue to exist for as long as people are interested in what other people are trying to hide. Bringing search engines into it will do nothing but whip people into an absolute frenzy to find out what's being hidden, and we'll just spawn or co-opt another communication channel. That news will get out.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
  14. Re:Welcome to the XXIst century by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

    Google employs over 32,000 people. Some of those old-school, sovereign nation-states (namely the Vatican City, Tuvalu, Nauru, San Marino, and Palau) have fewer.

    Considering the effects of a global economy, Google's business also affects the world more than many other countries who don't participate much in international trade.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  15. Re:Bureaucrats can't be fired by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 2

    Surely if you fire them out of a canon, they wind up in the apocrypha?

    --
    2*3*3*3*3*11*251
  16. Re:Welcome to the XXIst century by 0123456 · · Score: 2

    In a sovereign nation-state, starting from the assumption that it is democratically governed, each and all have opportunities to change their leadership - as well as changing the course the collective body is following.

    LOL. You've clearly never lived in the UK.

    Not only is the British government determined by the votes of about a million people in the Midlands, but they 'voted the bastards out' in the last election only to discover that the other bastards were just the same.

  17. Re:Good thing (sort of) by ToadProphet · · Score: 2

    That's not necessarily true in the UK. Truth is only a defence if there's a demonstrable public benefit.

    --
    It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
  18. Re:Good thing (sort of) by stevelinton · · Score: 2

    And if the material that comes up on a search is slanderous, that's grounds fir a defamation suit.

    Unless it's true. Telling the truth is never slander, no matter how embarrassing it may be.

    it is in UK.

    Not true, but the burden of proof is on the teller in some circumstances. There are also offenses other than libel/slander (like official secrets violations or privacy violations) which limit what truths you can tell where and how.

  19. Re:Good thing (sort of) by X0563511 · · Score: 2

    Meanwhile, what happens to said bad law? Do you all just suffer until the next election when someone can get rid of or otherwise neuter it?

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  20. Re:Good thing (sort of) by Skapare · · Score: 2

    Remember, the colonies revolted and don't have this problem.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars