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MIT Solar Towers Beat Solar Panels By Up To 20x

An anonymous reader writes "A team of MIT researchers has come up with a very different approach to solar collectors: building cubes and towers that extend solar cells upward in three-dimensional configurations. The results from the structures they've tested show power output ranging from double to more than 20 times that of fixed flat panels with the same base area (abstract, full pre-print). The biggest boosts in power were seen in the situations where improvements are most needed: in locations far from the equator, in winter months and on cloudier days."

35 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. Picture... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Picture available here. It's a solar pancake!

    1. Re:Picture... by Firethorn · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's an interesting article, but I found the link about using an ion cannon to make cells 1/10th as thick at 1/2 the cost of cheap chinese cells to be potentially more revolutionary.

      At this point we're not especially limited on space for solar installs. Our problem is that our collection systems aren't cheap enough.

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    2. Re:Picture... by uigrad_2000 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Ion cannon article was featured on Slashdot two weeks ago.

      I think a better way to state it, would be to say that efficiency per square foot of ground used is not important, unless the cost of the cells come down.

      Now that there is word of a new manufacturing process to reduce cost, two weeks later, we find an article about how to arrange low-cost cells.

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    3. Re:Picture... by pla · · Score: 3, Informative

      At this point we're not especially limited on space for solar installs. Our problem is that our collection systems aren't cheap enough.

      This. These 3d shapes give a better yield for a given footprint, but actually cost more.

      Hey, If you can make individual flat panels cheaply enough, I'll pave half an acre with them for all I care about the "footprint". That said, I really don't understand why no major company has come up with mass produced smaller panels in a roofing-shingle form factor, but, entirely different topic.

      Now, the part of this that does appeal to me involves the improved yield at high latitudes - But does that mean improved only against the footprint, or against the surface area? If the former, hey, cool, I live just far enough North that solar won't realistically pay back the investment given the present dominant efficiencies and prices; If the latter, then to repeat myself, just make 'em cheaper, I'll provide the space.

    4. Re:Picture... by fast+turtle · · Score: 4, Informative

      Did you RTFA? I happened to do so having caught it a couple of days ago. The interesting element to this design is the early/late (dawn/dusk) power generation as the current method doesn't get enough solar incidence to generate anything until 3 hours after sunrise/3 hours before sunset. That's 6 hours of production that's being missed, which is why this design reaches 15-20x the generated power of conventional flat panels.

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    5. Re:Picture... by icebike · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, I read dud RTFA. It said:

      While the cost of a given amount of energy generated by such 3-D modules exceeds that of ordinary flat panels, the expense is partially balanced by a much higher energy output for a given footprint, as well as much more uniform power output over the course of a day, over the seasons of the year, and in the face of blockage from clouds or shadows.

      This suggests to me that there is no ROI on this method, or at least none that could not be more cheaply matched by simply tilting existing solar arrays.

      I don't discount the possibility that we are seeing another poorly written TFA, and that there is an eventual ROI. But the implication is that the generation of power early and power late in the day may never actually pay for the structures and maintenance needed to collect it, leaving you with zero net gain over a tilted array in northern latitudes.

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    6. Re:Picture... by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      You've got to be kidding. You can't have an electric car with a big, tall tower of solar panels sitting on the roof. Simple aerodynamics forbids it.

      For portable rechargers, it makes far more sense to have a large multisegmented panel that folds up, not some stupid tower.

      Satellites don't need a stupid tower, because they just extend their panels in a large, flat array and point them directly at the sun. There's no reason to have them tilted because they're not sitting on the ground on earth; they're in space, so they can just reorient themselves for optimal collection.

      Battery chargers for yachts is about the only thing here that makes any sense, because there you really do have a footprint constraint. But again, you're going to have aerodynamics problems: the tower has to withstand wind loads, which means a hefty structure, and weight is a big concern on yachts.

      This whole thing is a really dumb idea. Some moron at MIT thinks that solar panels are dirt-cheap (they're not) and that land area to install them is highly limited (it's not), and so this design is optimized for all the wrong initial assumptions.

  2. Prior art... by msauve · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, MIT has basically recreated what a 7th grader has previously done.

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    1. Re:Prior art... by msauve · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, the middle schooler had an idea, built it, then collected data. MIT modeled theirs first to predict behavior before building it. Meh. "Systematic and predictive analysis," that's just obfuscatory-speak.

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    2. Re:Prior art... by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, no. The 7th grader built a single physical model and made rough measurements of it's performance at a single location across a limited span of time. The MIT team built a computer model that can analyze any given configuration and simulate it's output across a wide variety of locations and wide span of time - including variations in seasonal weather patterns.

      I'm not saying that what the 7th grader did wasn't cool - but he's built a pinebox derby car, while MIT has built a fully solar powered 55mph family sedan. Apples-to-oranges doesn't even *begin* to describe the differences, not only of degree but of kind, between the projects.

    3. Re:Prior art... by mutube · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to this Wired article the 7th graders work has been 'debunked' (or rather disproven) due to not actually testing power output but rather the 'open voltage on the circuit'. Unfortunately both the links in the Wired article point to Google webcache results that have expired so it's not possible to verify.

    4. Re:Prior art... by Asic+Eng · · Score: 2

      Being able to predict behavior and optimize the structure is what moves an idea from a proof of concept to something that could possibly be produced.

    5. Re:Prior art... by Endo13 · · Score: 2
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    6. Re:Prior art... by Endo13 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apologies. Reread the GP post and realized the above links don't really deal with what he was getting at.

      Here's one that's a bit more helpful, but still doesn't have all the details. It appears all the sites and cached pages are gone.
      http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/blog-debunks-13-year-olds-solar-power-breakthrough.html

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  3. Big surprise by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 2

    Big surprise that structures in volumetric configurations ended up being more efficient at gathering energy... considering plants have known this since they left the seas hundreds of millions of years ago.

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    1. Re:Big surprise by demonbug · · Score: 2

      Big surprise that structures in volumetric configurations ended up being more efficient at gathering energy... considering plants have known this since they left the seas hundreds of millions of years ago.

      Are you suggesting that lichen is not the evolutionary pinnacle of plant evolution? Oh sure, maybe your fancy trees produce more nutrients per unit land area, but AT WHAT COST?

  4. paper link by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

    As seems depressingly common in science journalism, they vaguely mentioned the existence of a paper, but don't actually give the title or (dare we hope) a hyperlink to the paper. At least they did mention the name of the journal it was published in.

    In any case, the paper is "Solar energy generation in three dimensions." If you're at a university with a subscription the official version (not open-access) is here. There is also an open-access preprint version at the arXiv.

  5. But much harder to set up by Hentes · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Most people use solar panels because they can be comfortably put on rooftops. If someone has enough room for these 3D structures they could just install a Sun tracking system that's even more efficient.

    1. Re:But much harder to set up by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If someone has enough room for these 3D structures they could just install a Sun tracking system that's even more efficient.

      Under conditions where you can see the sun - that's true. But the point of TFA is that these 3D structures are more efficient *in situations where sun trackers aren't more efficient*.

      Conditions exactly like those currently outside my window - where the sky is nearly uniformly bright but you cannot see the sun at all due to the clouds. Conditions that are fairly common here in the Pacific Northwest.

    2. Re:But much harder to set up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A tracker means moving parts, though; this arrangement might be cheaper and more reliable.

  6. Costs more by AdrianKemp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The cost/watt is higher, this is DOA I dare say.

    They're simultaneously saying that it's most beneficial for northern/southern areas where daylight is diminished and that it's a more compact arrangement of cells.

    Those two don't go together well... Most northern and southern areas have very large open areas due to having low overall population density.

    Cost/Watt is all that matters in most areas for solar panels, Watt/weight in the rest. I can't see this being of use except in powering small devices

    1. Re:Costs more by chudnall · · Score: 3, Informative

      The time is ripe for such an innovation, Grossman adds, because solar cells have become less expensive than accompanying support structures, wiring and installation. As the cost of the cells themselves continues to decline more quickly than these other costs, they say, the advantages of 3-D systems will grow accordingly.

      “Even 10 years ago, this idea wouldn’t have been economically justified because the modules cost so much,” Grossman says. But now, he adds, “the cost for silicon cells is a fraction of the total cost, a trend that will continue downward in the near future.” Currently, up to 65 percent of the cost of photovoltaic (PV) energy is associated with installation, permission for use of land and other components besides the cells themselves.

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  7. misleading by demonbug · · Score: 5, Insightful

    20x output (compared to a flat panel with the same footprint).

    Not really news. This is like excitedly proclaiming that a 20 story building has nearly 20 times the floorspace of a single story building with the same footprint. Uh, no shit? (Or that a 20 story building receives more insolation than a 1-story building; hmm, you think maybe it has a lot more surface area?) I also like that they hand-wave away the fact that it costs significantly more per unit output by saying that cells are getting cheaper. Great.

    Not that there aren't uses - it absolutely makes sense to go this route where you have limited footprint space - but it just doesn't seem at all revolutionary. I guess if you tack the letters M-I-T onto a press release it instantly becomes newsworthy.

  8. Re:Duh by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I agree about shadow effects. More comes into play though since more angles will be approximately normal to the panels more angles of light will still be in an effective region of the panel for collecting. In winter in the non-tropical regions the sun's maximum height can be pretty low in the sky giving you a very oblique angle to fixed panels against a roof (assuming a shallow slope on the roof). Making these suckers stick up means that the crossection exposed to the sun is larger even if the sun is lower in the sky.

    That said two problems I see:

    1) Roof top intallation will be weight. I have panels on my roof and they are about 100lb per sq yard. Stack twenty together and you'd be looking at 2000lb per sq yard. Not a good thing for the roof.

    2) Ground based panels: you can put the panels on stands that can be adjusted, heck they can be motorized so they can track the sun through the day AND through the seasons. So why exactly would you by ~20X more panels (at about 200 a pop) when a $50 motor per panel (guessing), or an adjustable stand that someone goes out and tilts every month or so can have the same affect?

  9. Who killed the effecient solar array? by TraumaFox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Quick, someone alert all of the major energy companies so they can buy up the patents and sit on them for eternity!

  10. Re:Duh by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Funny

    That is not correct. Re-read the article.

    "Re-" read?

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  11. Re:wind loading? by sandytaru · · Score: 2

    Ooh, now there's a configuration for you. Solar panels strapped onto the blades of a wind turbine.

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  12. Re:Duh by IcyHando'Death · · Score: 2

    The summary accurately says the "same base area", i.e. footprint. This is not the panel area. The GP is underwhelmed with this announcement for good reason. This is not a breakthrough in efficiency in anything except the area required to erect the structure. It doesn't make better use of available light. It just captures more by reaching higher, making adjacent areas less valuable or even useless for further solar installations.

    They suggest these towers and other configurations as useful for locations where available footprint is limited, such as urban areas. I dread the day when I start seeing such structures, erected by neighbours, looming over my fence and blocking out the sunlight to my patio, garden or my own solar collectors.

  13. Link by mutube · · Score: 2

    Bad form to reply to oneself, but I found the discussion of the methods I believe the article was referencing in this comment on the Watts Up With That article.

  14. Re:Duh by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 2

    No, they are using *significantly* more cells. Read the article. They're going by the ground footprint.

    That is, the area of the earth that is being used by their solar cell array.

    Let's say you have a tower ten feet high, covered in solar cells. Which is essentially what they have here. That tower is *obviously* going to have more surface area than just the amount of earth covered up by the base of the tower, since you're coating the sides as well as the top.

  15. Re:Good...but not enough by a-zA-Z0-9$_.+!*'(),x · · Score: 2

    Actually, we get 1,000 watts from sunlight per square metre, so it would take a very minor portion of the earth's landmass to power our civilisation.

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  16. Re:Duh by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 2

    You don't even need a motor, you can construct the tracker movement like a huge swiss clock. Some cogs, pins, belts, and a ~50 kg weight that you pull up every morning. Virtually bullet-proof, perfect in third world countries where motors are likely to be cannibalized or break down and not get repaired. (Disclaimer: not my idea, I saw someone testing such a device last summer.)

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  17. Solar shingles are available by Medievalist · · Score: 2

    I really don't understand why no major company has come up with mass produced smaller panels in a roofing-shingle form factor, but, entirely different topic.

    Solar shingles have been around for quite some time.

    http://www.google.com/search?&q=solar+shingles

    If our conversation is going to follow the pattern of a typical slashdot discussion thread, you will now need to retroactively define the terms "major", "mass produced", and "smaller" in such a way that you can insist that I am not only wrong, but also a smelly hippy that likes Hitler.

  18. Re:Duh by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    Exactly. It's like claiming skyscrapers are more efficient than single-story buildings. So why aren't all new buildings skyscrapers? Simple: because they cost far more, per square foot of usable floor space, than conventional buildings. Hence, skyscrapers are only used in two places: 1) places where the land cost is enormous due to demand, and 2) places where politicians/leaders want to show off and rig things so that it's economical for someone to build them (e.g. with giant tax breaks or subsidies), which is why you see them in places like Kuala Lumpur and Dubai.

  19. MIT solar towers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's a stupid concept. If I had been asked to review their paper I would have recommended not publishing it. Here's a link to their abstract:

    http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2012/ee/c2ee21170j

    "We demonstrate that absorbers and reflectors can be combined in the absence of sun tracking to build three-dimensional photovoltaic (3DPV) structures that can generate measured energy densities (energy per base area, kWh/m2) higher by a factor of 2–20 than stationary flat PV panels for the structures considered here, compared to an increase by a factor of 1.3–1.8 for a flat panel with dual-axis sun tracking."

    Yet they admit the following: "The increased energy density is countered by a larger solar cell area per generated energy for 3DPV compared to flat panels (by a factor of 1.5–4 in our conditions)...." IOW, they need a larger cell area by a factor of 1.5 to 4 to generate a given amount of energy than would be needed by a flat panel! So they admit their concept is a factor of 1.5 to 4 less efficient than a flat panel. But how can that be true, if their design generates significantly higher energy densities?! Probably they're merely generating higher peak energy densities at certain times and in certain localized regions of their solar panels, while their average energy density (averaged over their entire solar-panel area and over the entire operation time) is lower by a factor of 1.5 to 4.

    All they're really claiming is that they can reduce the variability of the power generated by stationary solar PV panels:

    "3DPV structures can mitigate some of the variability inherent to solar PV as they provide a more even source of solar energy generation at all latitudes: they can double the number of peak power generation hours and dramatically reduce the seasonal, latitude and weather variations of solar energy generation compared to a flat panel design."

    But is a reduction of variability worth sacrificing total energy production by a factor of 1.5 to 4? Not likely.