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Jeff Bezos To Retrieve Apollo 11 Rocket Engines
Hugh Pickens writes "AFP reports that Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos plans to retrieve the F-1 engines that rocketed astronaut Neil Armstrong and his crew toward the moon in 1969. 'We're making plans to attempt to raise one or more of them from the ocean floor,' Bezos wrote in his blog at BezosExpeditions.com. 'We don't know yet what condition these engines might be in — they hit the ocean at high velocity and have been in salt water for more than 40 years. On the other hand, they're made of tough stuff, so we'll see.' Bezos wrote that he was five years old when Armstrong made history during the Apollo 11 mission by becoming the first person to set foot on the moon, and 'without any doubt it was a big contributor to my passions for science, engineering, and exploration.' Bezos stressed that he is using private funds to try to raise the F-1 engines from their resting places 14,000 feet (4,267 meters) below the surface of the Atlantic Ocean, and that they remain the property of NASA. 'I imagine that NASA would decide to make it available to the Smithsonian (National Air and Space Museum) for all to see.' Bezos's efforts come just days after Titanic director James Cameron became the first person in 40 years to descend to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the ocean's deepest point, in a privately-funded expedition."
Can we please go back to decent central funding of scientific endeavour - particularly in space - rather than all this stupid pet projects from people who got lucky and have more money than sense? The Soviets dragged themselves from backwater feudal estate to technocratic superpower in 20 years - and China similarly - because they understood the value of education and science. They didn't think that "the market" would advance them.
The good side: it allows private corporations to do things like this.
The bad side: it puts money in the hands of the few.
They're not underwater graveyards, so yes, they can be salvaged. I'm not aware of anywhere within US territorial waters that is that deep (and in fact, I think the cutoff for territorial waters is 2,500m depth), so yes. I think you're right, they are legally up for grabs for anybody who can salvage them.
I'd be more concerned about the environmental impact. Yes, it's *very* deep, but wildlife has a tendency to accumulate around features on the ocean floor, and it's quite possible that these rocket engines have become artificial reefs. Beyond that, great steps have to be taken in preserving things that have been salvaged from the bottom of the ocean, because the chemistry changes. Just look at the steps they took to preserve the Mary Rose. I have no doubt of the historical significance of these (I'd add Mercury 3, and Apollo 8, 11, and 13 to the list), but I question whether it's a good idea to try to raise them.
No. Under admiralty law, the objects remain the property of the original owner forever, unless that owner has formally abandoned claim to them. The salvor may claim a reward for recovering the property, but not the property itself.
Yes, and under international maritime law, the salvor has a claim to a reward for recovering the property, but not to the property itself.
Maritime law does not work like that. There is no time limit. The owner must make a formal declaration of abandonment. NASA has not abandoned title to these engines. The salvor is entitled to a reward for recovering them, but cannot claim ownership of them.
Under international maritime law, the objects remain the property of the original owner forever, unless that owner has formally abandoned claim to them. The salvor may go to court to claim a reward for recovering the property, but is not entitled the property itself.
Well, the ascent stages DID crash back to the moon after the crew redocked with the CSM, then jettisoned the ascent stage.
They didn't end up back at the landing sites, though.
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The salvor may claim a reward
how does one determine what a reasonable reward is when the value of the salvaged item is difficult to determine? can the owner simply offer a penny, or can the salvor hold the goods for ransom until he gets what he wants? such a right to claim reward seems ripe for abuse, unless it must be agreed upon in advance, in which case it is no longer a right really, given that in that case the salvor could be said to have the right to see the owner dance like a chicken (since he has the right to anything he can agree to get the owner to do as a precondition of the salvage operation).
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
Hey, I'm going to make a troll comment that mentions jocks, but how will I sneakily cover my intentions? I know... I'll call myself 'JockTroll.' Now watch me reel those suckers in... oh shit, that won't work.
Not so long ago some underwater treasure hunters retrieved gold from a spanish shipthat was at the bottom of the ocean for centuries. The Spanish Govt sued and got their treasure back, so I think it would be a good idea to get the permission of NASA before going after it.
Anyway I agree that there would be better ways Bezos could spen his money in order to further space exploration.
I think that congress should rewrite NASA's charter (or whatever it is called) to allow individuals and companies to make tax free donations to NASA (the same as if they had donated to charities like the Red Cross, United Way, Humane Society etc.
And also allow sponsorship in return for naming rights (eg the next Rover on mars could be called the "Range Rover (sponsored by Land Rover.
Having seen a couple of aircraft wrecks that have been salvaged, all they'll be able to retrieve is a hunk of junk. Restoring them to a state that's useful for exhibition will mean rebuilding most, if not all, of it. If that's the case anyway, why not borrow NASA's blueprints and build a replica or two?
As an added bonus, the replica materials can be chosen to be easier to work with than the originals, since you're not going to build flightworthy examples. E.g. replace titanium with aluminium.
That's what the courts (or arbitrators) are for. It is up to the court to decide what the amount of the reward will be, based on a long list of factors set out in the International Convention on Salvage (1989). Typically, the reward will be less than 50% of the value of the property recovered, although it can be more for sunken treasure. The salvor does not need to have (and in fact, must not have) a pre-existing agreement with the owner to have a pure (or "merit") salvage claim.
In general, if the owner of the vessel refuses to pay the reward arising from a successful salvage, the court can seize the property and order it to be sold at auction to satisfy the claim. Of course, there can be lots of details and exceptions in specific cases.
Only if you launch it into ocean water atleast 2,500 feet deep.