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Samsung Says Their TVs Aren't Really Spying On You
lightbox32 writes "Samsung has finally responded to an article recently published by HD Guru titled 'Is your TV watching you?' [See this related Slashdot post] which discussed the fact that new features in Samsung's top 2012 models — including built-in microphones, HDTV camera, wireless and wired Internet connection, built-in browser with voice to text conversion, face recognition and more — could be used to collect unprecedented personal information and invade our privacy. Samsung has now provided their privacy policy, which may or may not lay the issue to rest." I vote for "not" — conspiracy theories about mandatory (or just secret) surveillance equipment in consumer electronics is just too persistent, even when the technical capabilities turn out to be a hoax; when the equipment is actually all in place and the user is protected only by a corporate honor policy, it's hard to be sanguine. (I recall there was a much rumored secret capability for law enforcement agencies to secretly and remotely turn on the internal microphones in PCs meeting the PC 97 spec, and this was an integral part of the plan. Since the government insists that telecom equipment have built-in backdoors, why should that sound all that crazy?)
Well, if you're so paranoid, get some tape and cover over the camera and microphone, or take it apart and disconnect it.
But, maybe even light bulbs have cameras and microphones in them now, using the powerlines to transmit the data back..
Trust in corporate ethics is so incredibly low. Privacy expectations plummet every year. If I was a hardware manufcaturer, I'd fund an independent organization (like Consumer Reports) and say "use this money to investigate which new devices coming out violate consumer privacy, and issue ratings". If we can have Energy Star compliance, why not Privacy Star compliance? If all my tvs had Privacy Star stickers, and my competitors did not, +1 for me and my business.
"The instructress had called them to attention again. 'And now let's see which of us can touch our toes!' she said enthusiastically. 'Right over from the hips, please, comrades. One-two! One- two! ...' "
I can see why Americans are in outrage and upset about the prospect of mandatory exercise via the Televue screen :)
Remember the scene in Kentucky Fried Movie where the news anchors are watching a couple having sex and trying hard to not let on they can see them through the TV? These days it may be a uncomfortably close to the truth.
In Soviet Russia television is watching YOU!
Samsung Says Their TVs Aren't Really Spying On You
Of course they'll be saying that. They'd be crazy NOT to say it.
I mean, they have enough patent lawsuits from Apple already.
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
Your boxers have a hole in them.
Have gnu, will travel.
For someone to create a personal firewall that prevents unwanted access to your appliances and unwanted data transmission from your appliances. It should be reasonably easy to build such a device, sell it for a reasonable price and let everyone know that they now have complete control over what their appliance does and when. I'd buy one in a minute!
The only way to prevent oher people from taking inappropriate advantage is to eliminate the opportunity.
They did confirm that an earlier line of their toasters might continue laughing at customers until the firmware was upgraded.
So now they watch you through your TV, and listen to you using the features of E911 on your cellphone.
Orwell's telescreen was something horrible the government forced into homes. Our electronics (whether overtly spying or just aggregating data like Facebook) are more a combination of Orwell's fears with Huxley's. We WANT the things the bad guys will use against us.
I've never understood the anxiety that this kind of thing causes. If you want to stop your tv or toaster or lighbulb from spying on you then:
1. go to a kitchenware place
2. buy some cooking foil
3. craft it into the shape of a baseball cap
4. position it as high as possible on your body
This works for all types of covert stuff that the man uses, with the exception of dream-robbing.
...brain the size of a planet and they ask me to spy on you through this crappy little camera in my bezel. Call that job satisfaction, 'cause I don't.
Paranoid much?
PC97 PC's? Seriously? Barely anybody had a network connection when that was out, let alone remote-access. And how would remote access to that microphone work through your firewall and without you noticing the traffic?
Every time you come up with (or reiterate) a crap conspiracy theory, I mentally filter everything you say as if I was talking to the local nutter on the bus.
This is why we need open source software. We are wasting our time with speculation if we could just look at the code.
I vote for "not" — conspiracy theories about mandatory (or just secret) surveillance equipment in consumer electronics is just too persistent, even when the technical capabilities turn out to be a hoax; when the equipment is actually all in place and the user is protected only by a corporate honor policy, it's hard to be sanguine.
Considering that "viewscreens" that allowed The Party to watch people in their homes were an integral part of the story of Nineteen Eighty-Four, it's arguable that people who are familiar with that story are probably inclined to at least think briefly about the possibility. (In the book, the "viewscreens" couldn't be turned off, although it's fair to say that most pieces of modern tech aren't exactly ever "off" unless you completely disconnect all sources of power, so this may be 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.)
Then again, in this age of the almighty corporation, how much is a simple corporate assertion of goodwill really worth?
Your blue polka-dot boxers, the ones you wore this morning, may have a hole in them. We wouldn't know, since we're not spying on you.
#DeleteChrome
As I recall, he had predicted the downfall would start with Vizio. Otherwise, sadly prescient.
Stop using them, at what point exactly did constant entertainment become a necessity? Have any of you ever taken an electronic sabbatical, meaning no electronics (save lights and stove) at all.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Governmen't has failed and has even backdoor-supported a lot of companies on these issues. I have decided to start voting with my wallet. Call me a luddite or whatever, but last year after my identity was stolen, I deleted my facebook account and anonymized my other accounts as best I could. I moved my personal banking to a credit union; I miss having access to a free atm at Super America, but with a little planning I get cash at the union before I need it. I have almost never been in an 'emergency' where I needed cash immediately, if this occurs I will suck it up and pay the atm fee. I sure miss some things, when I was in school I remember running out to get GTA San Andreas with three friends on the release date, but I haven't bought a console since I got my PS2 in 2002. In fact, Humble Bundle and some other indie's have served my gaming needs since I graduated in 2009. (Also, playing console and LAN games at friends houses. I am a cook, so I usually supply delicious treats and my friends and their wives pretty much let me get my fix). Also won't buy television services, I either go to a bar or friends houses. If all of these companies experience a large drop in revenue, they may change their tune pretty quick. Same goes for government.
Koalas. They're telepathic. Plus, they control the weather. -Margaret
You can't boycott government. When they don't get enough money from you they raise taxes to get more.
That is the difference between corrupt government and corrupt corporation.
If you don't have one of these, then you are not a patriot!
Uhhh Ill take 5 for my house then please :)
. We reserve the right to change this Privacy Policy at any time
It also looks like they may not have even thought things through particularly well. I started seeing articles March 20th.
This Privacy Policy is effective as of March 26, 2012,
This is why we need open source software. We are wasting our time with speculation if we could just look at the code.
Please load your brains before you shoot your mouth off! But then again this is slashdot. Samsung does compete with Apple for the hearts and minds of non tech savy consumers most of which have no clue about the Busy-box and OSS and the Linux kernel which makes all this home tv tech possible.
Samsung does provide the source. Read the eulas. If you do hack it and run a modded firmware you do so at your own peril. Some of the stuff that they do is interesting and can be hacked. I am sure that if they were to hide calls to enable camera and microphone function remotely from the net it will be discovered. But I cannot see them being that stupid.
Just wish some of the smart people that actually read and write code would post what they find out about the java binaries that Samsung uses. I am sure that their functionality can easily be observed in an emulator, so if it is possible for some Russian mafia hackers to watch you make out by activating your camera remotely then someone will find out, until this actually occurs..please stop posting crap about how all corporations except for Apple are evil!
This is why we need open source software. We are wasting our time with speculation if we could just look at the code.
This is by far the lamest and most impractical meme slashdot has created to date. Have you looked at the size and complexity of any popular OSS application/library? A cleverly hidden back door could take you an eternity to find, and that's when you already understand the design (or lack thereof). Not only that, but you then have to build it to verify the binaries on the machine are the same as what you built from the source. When all is said and done and you have complete trust in the software you then run it on chips provided by the same company you don't trust.
There is no surefire way to determine if these kind of devices (and the companies that supply them) are trustworthy, just as there is no surefire way to determine if a person is trustworthy. Trust is subjective, all anyone can really do is examine their reputation and track record, and perform random spot checks. Sure you can do more than spot check, you could sniff every transaction on the wire. But just as you can never be absoluely certain there are no bugs, you also can never be absoluely certain there are no back doors.
Financial institutions primarily catch internal "cyber-thieves" by auditing the information trail they alter, not by reviewing the code they alter.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
just don't buy Samsung...
Ever heard of camera phones or smart phones? Most people have one, many of those charge them in their bedroom at night. They have wireless connections to a network, mostly don't use open source software, etc. About the only difference is that the camera is not likely to be facing the bed, but the microphone will still work just fine.
Now, poke a few holes in your foil hat, I think your scalp is starving for oxygen and sunlight.
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
The saucers are coming. A remember, they zipped a few hundred light years to personally shove some probe up your butt.
When I was a child, I always thought "they" could see me through my TV while I was watching cartoons. If I was a kid today..my fears might actually be true D:
is to watch tv nude all of the time.
Who needs a 'TV' with a camera and internet access anyway?
Do it yourself with a usb web cam, DVB-T USB adapter, raspberry pi and any old 1080p monitor with HDMI inputs, a USB hub and speakers?
Players spy on you too. Remember that porn Blu-Ray you bought for cash? They know how many times you watched it, and which tracks were your favorites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVcCVd_eumA
Most of these modern TVs have linux on them, but don't come with shell access and complete kernel sources....
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
"I recall there was a much rumored secret capability for law enforcement agencies to secretly and remotely turn on the internal microphones in PCs meeting the PC 97 spec, and this was an integral part of the plan. Since the government insists that telecom equipment have built-in backdoors, why should that sound all that crazy?"
Well, given that the only plausible way of that working without being easily detectable by any half-competent technical user or sysadmin is some kind of timing side-channel on Ethernet packets (assuming the system is even connected to a network, which when PC97 came out isn't necessarily a given) or on PPP frames going out the modem, and the fact that any timing information would get garbled by every router in the path, it does sound pretty crazy to me.
Not to mention the complexity of getting every hardware manufacturer building PC97 systems to either implement this functionality or include some chip which does it, and getting every ISP in the world to capture the side-channel information and send it to law enforcement, and managing to silence every person who knew about it at every hardware manufacturer and ISP from then until now. Yeah, sounds like pretty typical conspiracy theorist bullshit to me. Does no-one who repeats this drivel actually spend five minutes critically thinking about it?
Of course they're spying on you.
Paranoia? I find that dismissive. If you put cameras in these things, and mics, they WILL be used.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7266059/School-spied-on-pupils-at-home-through-webcams.html
You might think only serious criminals need worry, but since when has that ever been the case? There's a whole raft of companies that do nothing but make spyware and take advantage of security holes, and a whole raft of busy bodies who'll use it, like the school above.
Basic common sense says you shouldn't buy this because it doesn't have a switch to turn off the camera and mic, and you'd have to trust Samsung's software not to permit others to use them. You don't need to take it apart and disconnect them, you just need to NOT BUY IT in the first place.
but there is also potential for good And I claim the patents! (or at least establish the obviousness of the following applications)
It's time that companies are held accountable to their core beliefs and central promises. Especially when they make outrageous statements like "we would never do that" or "do no evil". There should be a designation or line drawn. They shouldn't be allowed to cross that line - and only destruction of the company and all subsidiaries is acceptable punishment. No appeals - if they cross the line they are gone. This will then make it very important for them not to even approach that line.
If companies want to be people then they should die when they cut their own throats.
It does not matter what Samsung says it will do with the technology it only matters what can be done with it.
Just recently there was a slashdot article about LEA compelling google to hack a password protected device.
What is to stop LEA from compelling samsung to backdoor televisions and spy on people? It has been done with cell phones why would a TV be any different?
It is capability that matters to me. Personally I can't stand the thought of my own shit working against me..I will vote with my dollars.
Note that typical Timothy insanity in the summary. PC's meeting the PC97 spec and their internal mic. I have motherboards that meet that spec, even entire PC's. None of them have a mic. Most don't even come with a speaker. You can plug a mic in but I would be highly intrested in how some spook can instruct my PC to go out, buy a mic, plug it in and start recording me, all without me noticing it.
"But AHA! How do I know there isn't a mic", the true paranoid asks me.
"Well because I can't see any", I reply.
"How do you know what one looks like, nano genetic engineered cyber tech can make things very very small, they can put mic's inside chips and camera's inside pixels", the paranoid rants.
And... he has a point. There are certainly occasional press releases about screens that can see and you could certainly mistake a PC on a chip new story as it including a microphone and camera. Am I that certain that the needs of either a mic or a camera preclude it from being to small, or indeed being covered by a cooling fan? Yes, I am but I have not always been right (Once I thought I was wrong and I was wrong about that).
I can certainly see how those for whom tech is close to witchcraft and who have a limited understanding of how government works that and have guilty conscious might get worried.
Take the old, the TV is watching me, that has now been revived. People have believed this since the days of cathode ray tube tv's with rabbit ear antenna's. How would such a device possibly watch you? There is no technical way, you would have to believe the government has immensely advanced tech that nobody else knew about to hide a camera in there without it being obvious OR just plain not understand how TV works. Never mind how the hell the signal is supposed to get back to the spy headquarters.
With modern electronics and computers, this will only get worse. You can reason out why an old TV can't send anything back. But how can you proof a laptop visibly equipped with the tools to spy and the means to transmit them, isn't doing it? You could measure the network connection but how do you proof that there isn't a hidden signal that goes unreported? The led beside the camera is probably software controlled, at least that is what a paranoid could claim, so how do you proof it isn't recording when it isn't? Take it apart and measure electric flow but that is far to techy to satisfy the paranoid. If you believe lightbulbs can record and transmit a mere No current will not satisfy you.
A lot of people believe the moon landings never happened. An AWFUL lot of people. Not just ignorable people in trailer parks. That the moon landings really did happen is beyond obvious, the most simple proof is that the Russians never even bothered to cast doubt on it. If you think the Russians and Americans are in cahoots on this... well... that is the nature of paranoia, secret world government and every government on the world IS working together after all. See how neatly it all fits when you don't need actual evidence and facts?
It doesn't help that there are real spy projects like Echelon that show that some governments are willing to sift through a huge amount of drivel for... well... god knows what... it certainly doesn't seem to have given the US any intelligence to stop them blundering so often on the world stage.
When a population who doesn't trust their government meets a government that can't be trusted, you have the end of democracy.
It is like with doctors, at a simple basic level, you got to trust your doctor. If you don't, how can you take your medicine? Ask for a second opinion? How do you know that doctor is not in cahoots with the first? At a basic level, we should trust our government. And to ensure this, come down like a ton of brick on any in government that break this trust. But that would have required a lot of US presidents to hang from a rope during their term. And you can't have that can you?
So people cover their TV to stop it watching them, and get to vote on the next leader they don't trust. Long live western democracy.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Samsung tends to use a lot of Free Software in their firmware—our Samsung TV came with a copy of the GPL and some other licences. If this is the case with the 2012 models, has anyone thought to request the source code for the firmware? Even if the alleged spying software is proprietary, if it really exists there might be hooks or calls to it in the GPL'd code which they're legally required to disclose. Then at least you'd have evidence that it exists.
... that was the last anyone ever heard from timothy
As we slip further and further into a fascist regime... we are forced to deal with it. A sign of the times I'm afraid. :/
Speakers, reversed, are microphones. All it would take would be an invisible (to you) hardware change.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Best way to react is to have a wall timer to insure TV is really off. Another way if you can monitor the upstream network communications if you can.
I mention power off during off times in case your stuff is recorded to a hard disk or SSD memory for uploading while you are at work.
Would they want to see my kids in their diapers?
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Surveillance technology in CE devices is nothing new. I remember back in the late 1980's when cable tv boxes were proven to have embedded cameras which spyed on users.
I still do not want me scratching me willy ending up part of the TV spying system ..... Who knows.... maybe someone could hack the system, and there you are on the Internet porn site.
I own a Samsung TV. I bought it a couple years ago, so I think it is safe. I like the TV, but will not buy my next one from Samsung, with or without this feature. From what I have read... I just dont trust the company any longer. I think they wish to collect massive amounts of information on their consumers in the guise of additional features.
It is too bad, because video and audio input could be useful at times through a TV. But no way to monitor or control it through a switch, the user can never know how these inputs are being used or who may be exploiting it.
For now, I will just get all and more of the services Samsung offers by hooking my laptop to my TV through HDMI. In this way I will be able to control when a camera and microphone are being used in my living room.
I would advise all consumers to avoid Samsung until they get realistic about the privacy concerns and offer you some sort of hard wired switch to control the potential window into your home.