Firefox Demos Prototype Metro Interface

In order to provide an alternative to IE on Windows 8, Firefox needs a Metro UI. Luckily, development of a Metro interface for Firefox is well underway. The current build reuses the Android interface XUL (by virtue of being based on Fennec). The latest test release features lots of platform integration support: "We have Metro snap working, you can snap another Metro app to the right or left of Firefox and continue browsing. We also have HTML file input controls tied up to the Metro file picker. ... implemented the Windows 8 search contract, you can use the Search Charm from any screen on Windows 8. If you enter a URL, it will be loaded. If you enter anything else, it will be searched in your default search engine. We also implemented the Windows 8 share contract, you can use the Share Charm from any Firefox page to share that page to another application. Once you select the Share Charm it will list the applications you can share to, for example: Mail, Twitter, or Facebook." If you're interested in following development, the team has made a Mercurial repository available. Further background is provided by the first and second posts in the series.

Comments

Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

Will Metro Firefox share information with desktop Firefox? Currently, Windows 8 has a Metro IE and a desktop IE that don't share cookies or bookmarks. It's pretty hilariously bad.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah.. it's terrible.. it's like it's still in development or something.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

They do share bookmarks. But you have to type them as search terms in Metro IE because there's no bookmarks menu to navigate to.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pretty hilariously bad.

Well, at least MS is being honest with their branding. Check out the new W8 flag - http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/02/17/redesigning-the-windows-logo.aspx.

Compare it to this one - http://move.shetland.org/images/shetland-flag-thumb.jpg.

That's right, they've chosen the Shetland Islands flag for their Shetland pony OS...

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft fans keep using this defense to justify everything wrong with the customer preview. They're not going to unify IE, the control panel, and all the other redundant thingsin time for October. Microsoft is full steam ahead on this trainwreck.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know there are thousands of developers working on the Windows platform. I'm pretty sure they can fix redundancies.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

W8 ... Wait.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[shutdown -p now]

They have the ability to implement it, because it's a single process, and they are not restricted by app container sandbox even in Metro.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[ozmanjusri]

You do know there are thousands of developers working on the Windows platform. I'm pretty sure they can fix redundancies.

That's brilliant, you have a wicked sense of irony!

It reminds me of the Vista Shutdown Menu story http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[PNutts]

So... This thread has four AC posts: Two complaining and two defending Microsoft. The post that points out Windows 8 is still in development (in response to a post about the current feature set) is modded Troll. Ah Slashdot, I remember when you were a semi-technical forum. At this point I'm thinking about getting a Facebook account. The worms will expose me to more technology than these threads.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

Bookmarks menu? *pulls down futuristic shades* Where we're going we don't need... bookmarks menus.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[arglebargle_xiv]

That's right, they've chosen the Shetland Islands flag for their Shetland pony OS...

Have you ever seen the ratio of dong to pony on those things? Perhaps they're trying to tell us something.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Daniel Phillips]

Microsoft is full steam ahead on this trainwreck.

Wouldn't that be a shipwreck?

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

A dong and pony show?

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[ozmanjusri]

Really?

The ratio's about 143,000,000 Dong to horse. How much is a pony worth?

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[justforgetme]

http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html

Mr AGILE actually works at Microsoft?
</bad+humor>

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[justforgetme]

Rant aside, I would say the comments depict quite aptly the general opinion about win8. There is some consideration that
a "Public Preview" should be feature complete and not just an aesthetics demo. Sure Microsoft has time to fix all their
inconsistencies (maybe even adopt an open source kernel) but will it actually happen? No one can say.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[justforgetme]

The problem with this type of UI decision is that users have to actually remember the keywords
that hit the bookmark they are looking for. Many modern browsers do populate url suggestions
from history + bookmarks (Opera, FF, chrome all do it either natively or through settings) but it
just isn't intelligent enough for human use.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Farmer Tim]

Have you ever seen the ratio of dong to pony on those things? Perhaps they're trying to tell us something.

Massive cock-up?

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Eraesr]

Indeed. If MS wanted a unified Desktop/Metro experience, then it would've been unified in the customer preview. I mean, it's such a core usability concept (and probably technical as well) that I doubt they'd save that for last. I don't have hands-on experience, but I understand from all the preview articles that Metro and the desktop are two worlds apart. It's like running two OS-es next to each other. Does anyone really believe MS will bring the two together at this point in development? I really, really doubt it.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[jones_supa]

That's right, they've chosen the Shetland Islands flag for their Shetland pony OS...

When you swap the colors, it becomes the flag of Finland, home of Linus Torvalds...

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[gbjbaanb]

Does anyone really believe MS will bring the two together at this point in development? I really, really doubt it.

does anyone really believe the desktop isn't now considered a legacy component there solely for running backward-compatible apps?

The desktop in Metro is like XPMode in Vista/Win7.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[DrXym]

Like any large software project Windows 8 is going to be broken up by milestones with feature freezes, alpha, beta and release candidate phases. Optimistically Microsoft might have squeezed 4 months of additional development into Windows 8 / Metro after consumer preview and before feature freeze which must be soon. I really doubt that this afforded them enough time to fix the multitude of issues which were obvious in that release. It really was a usability dog's dinner for anyone using a mouse and keyboard.

Instead I think it far more likely that when Windows 8 does turn up it will be a tablets only version where they can essentially ignore the issues with running a classic desktop against metro because there won't be a classic desktop. I think the PC / x86 version will be delayed to give them time to make it work properly.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[DrXym]

It's obviously in development and some of the more offensively wrong issues in the metro / classic mashup are bound to be fixed. The problem I foresee is that Windows 8 is a massive project and its only 6 months from release. If its not already in feature lockdown it will be very soon. Any design flaws in the consumer preview which weren't fixed by now are probably not going to get fixed at all. If that's the case then I think MS will have to delay the desktop release although they could proceed with the Windows ARM release. Otherwise Microsoft are going to be killed by the press.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[sootman]

Maybe "troll" wasn't the most fitting mod, but the guy who says "it's still in development!!!!!11" is wrong. I mean, I guess he's technically right and, technically, it's still in development, but he's wrong if he thinks that everything will get magically fixed between now and when the final version is out. (Which is the point he was trying to make.)

This isn't an early beta we're talking about here. This is the consumer preview. The OS is 99.5% done and what you see now is pretty much what you'll get. The ones who are pointing out how wrong he is (nicely or otherwise) are the most technically-minded people here--as in, they've been paying attention to how software development and release schedules work for the last 15 years.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[kharbour]

Microsoft is full steam ahead on this trainwreck.

Wouldn't that be a shipwreck?

Something like this maybe: http://www.forensicgenealogy.info/images/train_wreck_replica.jpg

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[CAIMLAS]

Meanwhile, many people were using the W7 previews exclusively, going to length to use them past their expiration dates.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[mcgrew]

Not any more, Torvalds lives in the US now. It is an interesting point, though... I wonder if the reverse Finland flag was deliberate on MS's part?

It doesn't really matter, I doubt I'll be saddled with W8 (as the hilarious but unmodded AC said earlier). I still have W7 on my notebook, but probably not for long. W10 will probably be out before I buy a new one, and if/when I get a tablet it will be Android (or better yet, pure Linux). I just don't like "the Microsoft way."

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[CAIMLAS]

The amazing thing is that despite the consistently bad press Microsoft is getting about their flagship product that they're steamrolling ahead with it anyway, and more amazingly still, that their stock prices aren't suffering at all (in fact, they've been getting higher all year long).

I'm sorry. I've used everything from fvwm, Windows 3.0, MacOS 7-10, OpenStep, and BeOS to Windows 7, awesome, ratpoison, KDE 1-3, GNOME, WinCE, iPhone, and Android (2.2 - 4). Metro is, by far, the worst graphical interface/window management I have seen, taking partial elements from other concepts and re-implementing them - not only poorly, but horrendously.

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[cerberusss]

Reply to undo accidental moderation

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that GUI for the mentally retarded???

Re:Sharing data between Metro and desktop versions

[coastwalker]

Windows 8 is like a steaming turd that obscures my view of the next decade running updates of windows 7.

And the march continues

[rudy_wayne]

In order to provide an alternative to IE on Windows 8, Firefox needs a Metro UI.

Right, because normal programs won't run on Windows 8.

What a bunch of morons. Every decision now seems to be driven by a philosophy of "Let's make Firefox worse!!"

Re:And the march continues

[armanox]

Well they won't on the ARM edition...

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 8 won't allow any browser to become the default unless it's accessible through the Metro UI. It's still the same firefox and can be accessed from the non-Metro interface too.

Re:And the march continues

[Dynedain]

In order to provide an alternative to IE on Windows 8, Firefox needs a Metro UI.

Right, because normal programs won't run on Windows 8.

Nice trolling.

Normal programs will run just fine in Desktop mode on Win8. However, if you want your program to be on the new default dashboard interface (Metro) then it has to be a Metro app. And since both IE and Chrome can appear there, it makes absolute sense that FF should have the feature included as well.

If you want to be a full replacement to IE, you need to be a full replacement to IE, and that means showing up in the system wherever IE can show up. If you actually RTFA, you'll see they're talking about hooking into Win8's built-in browser search and sharing hooks, as well as showing how easy it is to add a Metro interface to FF because of the already existing theming layer within FF.

Re:And the march continues

[javascriptjunkie]

Sure does seem like that, doesn't it. There was a reason I switched to Chrome as my surfing browser. What concerns me more about what this whole thing says about the open and free nature of Firefox. You know you can't publish anything for Metro without Microsoft's express consent, right? I'm not saying the M wouldn't approve it, but even if it did; especially if it did, you would be installing yet another piece of Microsoft approved software on your desktop. Think about that for a minute. If you're in the business of using Microsoft approved browsers to begin with, why would you care that Firefox even exists in the first place. Answer? You wouldn't.

Windows 8 runs just fine with regular Windows apps. I'm using it at home as my main OS because Ubuntu shit on itself, and Mac OSX won't install with my video card. Even though I have Windows 8, I'm really not enjoying Metro. I have yet to see a compelling need or app for it. I spend most of my time in Desktop mode because it works better. It's pretty much identical to Windows 7, with a much improved start menu system. That I like. I just think Metro, and Firefox are for the birds. That's all.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you may be mistaken. Windows 8 won't allow accessing the Metro version of IE 10 if another browser is set to default. Regular browsers can still be made default.

Re:And the march continues

[Psychotria]

I'm not sure the OP was trolling... it sounds more like sarcasm to me, but I like your response apart from that.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

I think hus/her sarcasm was pretty obvious and not trolling.

Re:And the march continues

[rudy_wayne]

Sure does seem like that, doesn't it. There was a reason I switched to Chrome as my surfing browser.

But that's the problem. I've used Chrome and it's just not as good as Firefox. As much as Firefox pisses me off with all the incredibly bad design decisions they've made, Chrome has too many things that don't work as well as Firefox, or don't exist at all.

Re:And the march continues

[Dynedain]

Oh I'm certain the GP was using sarcasm... which is why I interpreted it as trolling (looks like some mods agree with me). The GP was implying that FF did not need to implement a Metro interface because that continues in the tradition of "Let's make Firefox worse!!"

Re:And the march continues

[Nerdfest]

Don't they also need to be 'approved' by Microsoft? ( or is this no longer the case?) I was actually half expecting them to do what Apple does and block other browsers. The precedent seems to have been set.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

Chrome. Which is working on a metro interface. Yeah. So Firefox is bad for working on a metro version, but Chrome is the bee's knees.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck marked this "interesting"? Clearly not anybody who has actually used Windows 8, because then those folks would know that "Windows 8 won't allow any browser to become the default unless it's accessible through the Metro UI" is absolutely fucking incorrect.

Re:And the march continues

[recoiledsnake]

You seem to think that the Desktop paradigm will survive the RTM.

It won't.

.....

Have fun with Metro, Windows guys.

--
BMO

It will. Microsoft will not make existing apps incompatible with Windows 8.

Stop spewing lame FUD.

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

You're wrong. Windows 8 does allow any browser to become the default, same as before. The catch is that it has only one global (per-user) setting for "default browser" without separation into desktop and Metro. So, if you make some browser default, and that browser does not support Metro, then all URLs in Metro apps will open the desktop app, which is not very convenient - so if someone is heavily using Metro, they will likely only make browser default if it supports Metro.

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

And since both IE and Chrome can appear there

Does Chrome have a Metro version already? Where can I get that?

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

Regular Metro apps can only be distributed via Windows Store, and, yes, that includes Apple-style app approval model (though it doesn't have some of the more nasty Apple rules, such as "no competing apps" - so other Metro-only browsers are fine).

That said, browsers are special-cased. More specifically, if a desktop application is installed and registers itself as a handler for http: URI schema, and the user selects that application as the default browser, then that app is given the opportunity to also provide a Metro version. Basically, it can provide a tile that appears in Metro home screen, can pin secondary tiles there (for bookmarks, web apps etc), and when launched, can detect if it's being launched from the tile or from an URL in another Metro app, and can decide whether to launch in desktop or Metro mode (e.g. IE10 has that as an option - always desktop / always Metro / same as invoker). This is called a "Metro style enabled Desktop Browser" - this document (.docx) covers the details.

Now, because this is still a desktop app, it is installed by usual means - an MSI or other kind of installer, or even just copy it over (so long as it can register itself to handle http:/// URLs on launch or something). So, it's not subject to Windows Store app approval policy. It's also much less limited with respect to what it can do, compared to a Metro-only app - the sandbox mainly restricts it from doing stuff that only makes sense on the desktop when it's in Metro mode, but otherwise it has same permissions as a desktop app. This means that they can JIT-compile code - kinda important for JS - and share bookmarks and history with desktop.

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

You know you can't publish anything for Metro without Microsoft's express consent, right? I

Hybrid desktop/Metro browsers are an exception to that rule - they can be installed from regular installers outside the store, and don't require approval. I've described that in more detail in my post above.

Re:And the march continues

[epyT-R]

the real problem being that there are two entirely separate use contexts in use at once whose only link is via what used to be the start menu. this asinine design is the root problem.

Re:And the march continues

[PNutts]

Hybrid desktop/Metro browsers

If an app goes both ways does that make it Metrosexual?

Re:And the march continues

[Phroggy]

Don't they also need to be 'approved' by Microsoft? ( or is this no longer the case?) I was actually half expecting them to do what Apple does and block other browsers. The precedent seems to have been set.

Microsoft has actually been behaving themselves recently. They offered assistance to the Mozilla folks to make sure Firefox would be supported on Windows Vista, they moved Windows Update into the control panel so you no longer need to browse to a web site in IE to update your OS, and Windows 7 gives you the option to remove Internet Explorer (although the rendering engine is still there, since lots of apps rely on it). Each version of IE since IE7 has been less awful, and when they wanted to add an RSS reader (which Firefox already had), they actually flew down to Mozilla headquarters to discuss using Firefox's RSS icon in IE because they figured it would cause less confusion for users if they cooperated. Microsoft refused to participate in WHATWG while HTML5 was being developed, but once W3C officially adopted HTML5, Microsoft got on board.

Does IE still suck? Hell yes, but it sucks a lot less than it used to, and Microsoft is playing by the rules now.

Re:And the march continues

[recoiledsnake]

Furthermore, I have a question.

I doubt you will answer it seeing as you are a "paided" poster.

Why does Metro make you guys so defensive? Isn't it supposed to be superior to the Desktop? Isn't it the latest and greatest from Microsoft? Wouldn't you /rather/ have such a superior interface take over as the premier interface of all operating systems ever?

As a Windows booster, you must think that Metro is the cat's balls.

Well....

Isn't it?

--
BMO

WTF is a "paided" poster? At least get your grammar right.

Metro is good for things like browsers and casual consumer apps and is perfect for something like a portable tablet., but is unsuitable for many productivity apps like Photoshop, AutoCad, Office or Visual Studio, thus the Desktop lives on.

Re:And the march continues

[recoiledsnake]

Then be resigned to stupid UI decisions that make your less computer-savvy friends always ask you the same dumb questions to which you'll have to always ask "is this in metro or is this on the desktop" and they'll say "huh?" Microsoft has always made big claims about consistency of UI, and if they leave the desktop paradigm in with Metro, they'll be making their own biggest cardinal sin.

The desktop paradigm is dead. Microsoft smote the ground and declared it thus with Metro.

--
BMO

Okay whatever, you are entitled to your opinion, however lame or dumb it may be, but don't go spreading canards that the Desktop is going away for RTM.

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

WTF is a "paided" poster? At least get your grammar right.

I put it in quotes because it is internet slang for shill.

Metro is good for things like browsers and casual consumer apps and is perfect for something like a portable tablet., but is unsuitable for many productivity apps like Photoshop, AutoCad, Office or Visual Studio, thus the Desktop lives on.

Then why did Microsoft remove the ability to turn off Metro? You know, for people who sit at a desk and do work.

Explain. Give examples.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

Just how much ZaRex do you have to drink (it wasn't Kool Aid they drank in Jonestown) to believe that dueling GUIs on the same computer is not a colossally stupid idea?

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[ColdWetDog]

Two GUIs enter!

One GUI leaves!

Re:And the march continues

[recoiledsnake]

I am sorry, I'm neither a shill nor paid. There seem to be a lot of zealots on this site though....

>Then why did Microsoft remove the ability to turn off Metro? You know, for people who sit at a desk and do work.

You make it sound as if they removed the desktop apps. You can still use all the deskop apps and use the start screen instead of the start menu.

Anyway here's the long answer from Paul Thurrott:

. Microsoft could simply have made a Windows 8 that was to Windows 7 as Windows 7 was to Windows Vista; that is, an evolution. And Microsoft could have adapted Windows Phone to work on tablets, following the strategies of both Apple and Google. Certainly, many within Microsoft wanted the company to do just that.

In such a scenario, I personally see Windows on a slow, gradual decline. And I see the very real possibility--almost a certainty, really--that this Windows Phone tablet system follows in the footsteps of Zune and makes absolutely no dent at all. It is like Windows Phone: Technically excellent, highly usable, and utterly ignored. And when you combine that failure with the slow decline of Windows, you get a steep, steep decline for Windows in the overall market for general purpose computing. In other words, a disaster. A disaster that would make people pine for the comparatively stable days of Windows Vista.

Of course, Microsoft is not doing that. They are not going towards certain failure but are instead making a big bet--A. Big. Bet.--on something that is unknown and unproven and not necessarily destined for success. But in making this big bet, Microsoft is, I think, doing the right thing. Not in the details, necessarily, but in the broad strokes.

Re:And the march continues

[couchslug]

"What a bunch of morons. Every decision now seems to be driven by a philosophy of "Let's make Firefox worse!!"

They are making it for what they want. They give not a partial fuck about what you or I want.

Re:And the march continues

[recoiledsnake]

It's in the works.

http://www.slashgear.com/google-confirms-metro-style-chrome-for-windows-8-13218100/

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

Interesting. I wonder if they keep Flash support (hybrid Metro/desktop apps are not sandboxed, so it can likely be done with existing Flash code). If yes, they would have a killer feature right there.

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

You make it sound as if they removed the desktop apps. You can still use all the deskop apps and use the start screen instead of the start menu.

Metro is not merely the start screen. Metro is an entirely different paradigm for using a computer. For you to say that it's merely the replacement for the start button is to be intellectually dishonest, and frankly, misrepresenting what your employer has created.

The removal of the Registry key that toggles Metro is evidence of where Microsoft is headed with Metro. If they truly wanted to leave it up to the user whether to use Metro or not, they could have left the registry key there. It's not like it was doing any harm. You could set the flag on the registry key and, as a desktop user, be totally content in a blissful state of pure desktop.

But no, they had to remove it. Why? To force Metro. There really is no other explanation. If you have one that makes an iota of sense, I'd like to hear it.

>Paul Therroutt

He is indeed correct on that last paragraph. Microsoft is doubling down on Metro, and if you fail to see that then you are blind.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[TheGoodNamesWereGone]

The failure of Win8 is gonna make Bob, Millenium, and Vista look like nothing. Firefox is doing this because they have to, though. I'm not sure even the yahoos in charge of FF's interface over the past few releases wanted things dumbed down to such a level as Metro.

Re:And the march continues

[recoiledsnake]

...frankly, misrepresenting what your employer has created.

I was trying to have a civil conversation with you and I am actually in agreement with some of your post (the very reason I pasted Paul's comment here).. but I find your accusations sickening. The only time I was in Seattle was to interview for Amazon for a Linux position and even attended a live Stallman talk, but dumbass anti-MS zealots like you can't even see past your fucking nose and instead hurl accusations of shilling. Fuck you and to hell with you and your types. Go back to Groklaw and Techrights. I am sick of this bullshit.

Re:And the march continues

[humanrev]

As an impartial observer, I think you're being a fucking idio bmo. You seem to believe that NO-ONE could like Metro, and that anyone who apparently does must be affiliated with Microsoft. As if people can't have differing opinions.

I've seen the same issue time and time again with Linux zealots. If you happen to explain why you like Windows 7, they'll call you a shill because NO-ONE could possibly like Windows at all, could they? They just cannot comprehend this idea, and I was lead to believe Linux users are smarter than regular folk, but some of them have their heads so far up their asses they don't like admitting some people have opinions that are different... without being malicious.

Oh Slashdot, no wonder you're the joke of the tech world.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it very interesting that anyone who questions how PJ gets paid or if even a real person instead of a pseudonym for IBM/Google lawyers is thoroughly bashed to death, but it's open season on any other commenter.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

>>"For you to say that it's merely the replacement for the start button is to be intellectually dishonest, and frankly, misrepresenting what your employer has created."

Well, at least he has a well paying job, instead of being a smelly fat nerd still living in their parent's basement like you seem to be.

Re:And the march continues

[Rockoon]

Just how much ZaRex do you have to drink (it wasn't Kool Aid they drank in Jonestown) to believe that dueling GUIs on the same computer is not a colossally stupid idea?

You mean a dumb idea like how some of us have both Gnome and KDE installed and can switch between them at boot-up?

Re:And the march continues

[narcc]

Regular Metro apps can only be distributed via Windows Store

That is horrifying.

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

You seem to believe that NO-ONE could like Metro,

I have yet to see anyone who does not have a vested interest in Metro like it.

It used to be that I could easily troll (is it really a troll if I honestly believe it's the case?) dozens of people by stating that Metro is going to take over the desktop. Many vibrating with visible anger. These days, not so much, because many people have moved on from anger and denial to acceptance. Because both you and I know that Microsoft can force whatever UI they want and people will eat it up, because when all you've ever had is a shit sandwich, you think all sandwiches contain shit.

>Windows 7

Windows 7 actually doesn't suck. It's what Vista should have been. Its throughput for nontrivial amounts of files /does/ suck, but as a run-of-the-mill OS, it's not 'orrible, guvnuh.

Metro, paired with the traditional desktop, switching in and out seemingly at random depending on what kind of application you're running, is a real 'orrorshow.

And that's what you guys keep glossing over. Having both GUIs on the same machine violates everything both Microsoft and Apple have said about consistency of UI.

The only solution is to get rid of one or the other.

That means that the Desktop needs to go. Microsoft is /not/ backing down from Metro. Even though Metro sucks on the desktop for anyone who has actually tried it.

>implying I'm a joke of the tech world

As if I care. There are actual jokes of the tech world, and they are Ed Bott, Robert Enderle of the Enderle Group (of one), Maureen O'Gargle (was that her ice in her highball I heard clink during a SCO phone call?) etc, ad nauseam. And they are all violently pro-Microsoft. The only journalist that covers Microsoft that has a shred of integrity is Mary Jo Foley. She really does make Ed Bott look like the utter douche he is.

By the way, there's only one person who has ever said this to me on here, and he happens to be my "anonymous stalker"

Hi anonymous stalker. You forgot to logout. Eat a bag of dicks.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

No.

Switch between them *during the same session*

You have obviously not used the Consumer Preview. Go get it, install, and /use/ it.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

I find it very interesting that anyone who questions how PJ gets paid or if even a real person instead of a pseudonym for IBM/Google lawyers is thoroughly bashed to death, but it's open season on any other commenter.

Hi Darl. Still bitter? You should just let it go, man.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[mystikkman]

>I have yet to see anyone who does not have a vested interest in Metro like it.

That implies there is no one without a vested interest in Metro who like it right? And this is for a OS that has a billion users.

>Having both GUIs on the same machine violates everything both Microsoft and Apple have said about consistency of UI.

Any references to them saying so? Even if so, why do they have to follow what they (allegedly) said?

>The only solution is to get rid of one or the other.
>That means that the Desktop needs to go. Microsoft is /not/ backing down from Metro.

Talk about leap of logic. This is a company that bends over for backwards compatibility. The desktop is going nowhere my friend, if you think that Microsoft will break millions of Win32 apps on Windows 8, you're frankly retarded. Whether Windows 8 will crash and burn due to the schizo UI is a different topic which I am willing to entertain, but they will not break compatibility that is their lifeblood, especially in enterprise. Period. And you arguing for it over and over again makes you sound stupid, to be frank.

>As if I care. There are actual jokes of the tech world, and they are...

Slashdot is indeed the joke of the tech world. Slashdot wrote stories like this about Windows 7(not to mention organized fud campaigns by Computerworld fake benchmarks):

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/02/16/2259257/draconian-drm-revealed-in-windows-7

Go on, read the comments there.

Choice comment from that discussion:

Re:A DRM ban clause should be added as a constitut (Score:4, Insightful)
by hairyfeet (841228) Alter Relationship on Tuesday February 17 2009, @12:54AM (#26882807) Journal

I been saying it and saying it that the DRM in Win7 hadn't been turned on and that is why they are getting good performance out of it now. Vista Beta 1 ran great for me too, but that was the pre DRM version. All of this DRM crap has to monitor you to keep "criminals" like the owner of the PC from doing as they like 24/7/365. All of that monitoring takes up CPU and RAM that could have been used for your stuff.

Mark my words, what we are seeing here is the tiniest tip of the turd iceberg that is Win7, AKA Vista the second edition. It will go down in flames as folks find out it is a big pile of stink just like Vista. That is why just yesterday I had a customer literally throw money at me saying "make this %^&^&$ POS Vista go away! I don't want to see this thing again until XP is on it!". So mark my words, Linux guys. Be getting your A games ready. Be doing everything you can to fix the little irritants like Winprinters because when Vista7 goes down in flames you are going to have a LOT of POed folks looking for a new direction. And Apple is just too damned expensive for John Q. Average. So this is your shot, make it count. I doubt seriously after Win7 goes down in flames that Ballmer will have a job and the next guy they bring in will probably be one of the MS Office guys and he will go back to dull and boring business OSes(Oh,Lord,please let it be so!) so you guys probably won't get a third at bat.

I for one would like some healthy competition to make the marketplace more fair so don't miss your shot,make it count. Because a moron as stupid as Ballmer only comes around once in a lifetime and you don't want to miss it.

And the tech world noticed that Slashdot turned into a joke --> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/oh-the-humanity-windows-7s-draconian-drm.ars

>Windows 7 actually doesn't suck. It's what Vista should have been. Its throughput for nontrivial amounts of files /does/ suck, but as a run-of-the-mill OS, it's not 'orrible, guvnuh.

Ah lovely, now you love Window

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a very simple explanation for why they disabled the ability to turn Metro off in the Consumer Preview and if you missed it due to paranoia or megalomania I'll quote it for you here:

"They are not going towards certain failure but are instead making a big bet--A. Big. Bet.--on something that is unknown and unproven and not necessarily destined for success."

His exact words tell you why you can't turn it off. They absolutely need the feedback on it and to force the early adopters to learn it and love it. That's all. No big special secret bwahaha we're getting rid of the desktop entirely now bow before us peons of computing and weep! reason here. Just that since it is such a huge gamble they want it to have as much early exposure as possible to get feedback on how they can tweak it before taking it to market...and they need it from the average shmuck on the street who thinks he's a power user.

You're welcome for the explanation.

Re:And the march continues

[mister_playboy]

Isn't the desktop/metro duality more akin to running both KDE and Gnome desktops at the same time? I don't think that's a very common usage.

Re:And the march continues

[recoiledsnake]

Well they won't on the ARM edition...

Exactly. And Microsoft is throwing Firefox and Chrome a bone by making special exceptions for browsers on ARM tablets.

Ask Mozilla how that iPad port is turning out....

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

The people who are actually interested in improving Metro do not need to be forced into using it.

The average schmuck, as you put it (I agree with the characterization) that wants to use 8 to show off as a "power user" really isn't anyone Microsoft should be concerned with anyway, and is going to find a way to turn off Metro, regardless. There is already a hack out there that does this (apparently it's a file ripped from Windows 7 or something).

--
BMO

I also note with amusement that all the "troll" mods I'm getting. This is an abuse of moderation because "troll" is not "I disagree." But whatever. I have more karma points than you idiots have negative mod points.

Re:And the march continues

[mystikkman]

Just how much ZaRex do you have to drink (it wasn't Kool Aid they drank in Jonestown) to believe that dueling GUIs on the same computer is not a colossally stupid idea?

--
BMO

You mean like Win 95 which ran on top of DOS and how you could land in DOS fullscreen to run DOS apps? That was two dueling UIs right there.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

I had to recently start using Windows 7. It deleted my shortcuts to network locations under some guise of "maintenance" (e.g., a shortcut to a thumbdrive folder, although these in particular were to a RAID NAS that *I* have no trouble accessing but Windows 7 OS can't). I had to google the problem and the solution. The solution was on a microsoft.com page so they know about the problem (it's a feature, not a bug). My shortcuts (aka aliases) weren't even thrown into the garbage or some asanine folder (like Desktop cleanup wizard). If there was notification, it went unnoticed.
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itproui/thread/1b4dbba7-a5ae-4ab3-b875-3980938dbef3

So whatever the fuck you think Windows Vista/7/8 is compatabile with, the truth is that it is incompatable with common sense.

How is it they keep reinventing the Unix "home/user" paradigm.

Desktop
My Computer
My Documents
My Documents/My Pictures/My Videos/My Books/My Foo
now... Library (WTF!)

Desktop got fucked a long time ago. The original comment stands ("You seem to think that the Desktop paradigm will survive the RTM."). Only it is a few years late.

Windows fucking sucks and you have to be a moron to deny it. They will break every paradigm so they can reinvent it and drag the industry and new-user training along with them. Dumb ass.

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

Last things first

The site has lost readership thanks to haters like you who attack anyone who dares to express an alternate viewpoint.

No, this site has lost its readership because it is stuff that doesn't matter that happened last week. This can be tied directly to the "vote for a story" model that was implemented. Things appear everywhere else and then show up on Slashdot last.

Talk about leap of logic. This is a company that bends over for backwards compatibility.

Where were you the last time the driver model changed and printers, scanners, and soundcards (lol, Creative X-Fi) wound up in landfills across the fruited plain? Where were you when Microsoft finally said to the game publishers "Fuck you, you're not writing to hardware anymore"? Microsoft, has, and does, break compatibility when they feel the need to. Paul's article puts an emphasis on this with Metro. The thing is that you have to actually read Paul Thurrott's article and understand just exactly what he's trying to say. He's saying that Metro is a "bet the company" move and there's no going back.

Lastly, I have never said that 7 sucks. You can go through my entire posting history if you wish. It's not just "now."

Indeed, here is me saying nice things about Windows 7.

http://investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=1911&mn=109089&pt=msg&mid=9645884

Now get stuffed.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

Groklaw was good during the SCO days. After the case ended, it seems to have descended into a cesspool of fanboy haters.

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

I said

>dueling GUIs

You misquote me as "Dueling UIs"

Your reading comprehension sucks.

Furthermore:

>You mean like Win 95 which ran on top of DOS

No, no it didn't. And you're an idiot for thinking so. That distinction belongs to Windows 3.1 and previous versions.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

Protip

The SCO vs IBM case hasn't ended.

It's been assigned to Judge Nuffer.

Msg 117123 of 117133 at 4/2/2012 10:52:08 AM by El Corton
n00b gets the IBM potato

03/31/2012 1106 REASSIGNMENT to Newly Appointed District Judge. Case Reassigned to District Judge David Nuffer (DJ). Judge Dee Benson no longer assigned to the case. Case number will now read 2:03-cv-00294-DN. Please make changes to document captions accordingly. (asp) (Entered: 03/31/2012)

>descended into a cesspool of fanboy haters

No, it's diversified into hating Cisco, Apple, Oracle, and other companies because most discussion centers around patents these days. But you wouldn't know that because you're a hater yourself and don't read the site.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[mystikkman]

>Microsoft, has, and does, break compatibility when they feel the need to. Paul's article puts an emphasis on this with Metro. The thing is that you have to actually read Paul Thurrott's article and understand just exactly what he's trying to say. He's saying that Metro is a "bet the company" move and there's no going back.

So your argument is that Microsoft will break compatibility to such an extent that their own Visual Studio won't run on the next version of Windows? What are you smoking? And Paul in no way implies anywhere that the desktop is going away. He is just saying that it's a bad move for MS to allow users to turn off Metro which is a very different from removing the Desktop paradigm.

Re:And the march continues

[humanrev]

>implying I'm a joke of the tech world

No, I'm not implying anything of the sort. You're honestly not that important. I'm saying outright that Slashdot is a joke in the tech world purely because of commenters like you. This place seems to draw in the crazies.

By the way, there's only one person who has ever said this to me on here, and he happens to be my "anonymous stalker"

Hi anonymous stalker. You forgot to logout. Eat a bag of dicks.

What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously. You're not important enough to have a stalker.

Re:And the march continues

[mystikkman]

So dueling GUIs is worse than a dueling GUI and commandline UI? It's funny to see you twist into wild contortions.

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

"So your argument is that Microsoft will break compatibility to such an extent that their own Visual Studio won't run on the next version of Windows? What are you smoking?"

What the fuck do you mean by "won't run?"

No, you fruitcake, the interface will just change. Eventually. That's all. And that will be Metro. Deal. With. It.

Christ almighty.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[bmo]

The command line and GUI have never surprised anyone. Because the command line has been more-or-less consistent over the decades.

But as far as Metro goes, it's a radical departure from "normal" GUIs which have remained more-or-less similar with a desktop metaphor for the last .... fuck, when was the Xerox Star?

And Microsoft is going to foist this upon an unsuspecting public with the RTM.

>me twisting into contortions

No, calling you out on strawmanning and deliberate misreading is not me twisting. It's you being an asshole

Meet the bit bucket, asshole.

--
BMO

Re:And the march continues

[mystikkman]

WTF are you blathering about? You made the claim in the GGGGGGGGGGGGP post that MS will dump the desktop paradigm in Win 8 RTM for only Metro.

Since Visual Studio is not a Metro app, it "won't run" on WIndows 8(along with Office, Photoshop, iTunes and all the millions of Win32 apps out there) if what you said is true..

Please read your own posts and be consistent or I'll have to assume you're mentally ill and move on.

Re:And the march continues

[mystikkman]

>But as far as Metro goes, it's a radical departure from "normal" GUIs which have remained more-or-less similar with a desktop metaphor for the last .... fuck, when was the Xerox Star?

So the iPad and Android tablets have a desktop metaphor or don't? If you think they do, Metro isn't that different.

>And Microsoft is going to foist this upon an unsuspecting public with the RTM.

I thought your original argument was that MS was going Metro-only with the RTM and won't have dueling GUIs.

Re:And the march continues

[Daniel Phillips]

Microsoft has actually been behaving themselves recently.

I would suggest not being quick to accept that. Microsoft has always been quick with the "embrace" in "embrace, extend, extinguish". Lest we forget.

Re:And the march continues

[Daniel Phillips]

You know you can't publish anything for Metro without Microsoft's express consent, right?

Great, I'm totally comfortable with that because I do not intend to ask Microsoft for anything, ever.

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

This has been known for close to a year now.

Anyway, after Apple is swimming in cash in their walled garden, what did you expect? Everyone wants a piece of that pie now that they've shown you can make it.

Re:And the march continues

[msclrhd]

Microsoft are only supporting WinRT (the new API to write Metro applications) applications, not Win32 applications (aside from Microsoft Office, IE and Windows Explorer) on Windows ARM. Those are the only times you get to see the desktop on ARM devices and it is only there because they cannot port Office in time.

Any Metro applications that are published (going through the Microsoft store, which is the only way to distribute Metro applications) have to use WinRT (including the WinRT subset of the Win32 API) -- if you use any of the verboten Win32 APIs you cannot get your application on the Metro store.

How many articles refer to the desktop as "legacy" (google "windows 8 legacy desktop").

Does the Metro Desktop interaction feel integrated, smooth, consistent and supported to you, or does it feel like Microsoft said "we need to support 'legacy' applications, so we'll tack the desktop on to Metro as another Metro application and not bother about seamlessly integrating the two".

Microsoft are not supporting desktop -- they have shoved it into a Metro-style application that runs the Desktop in isolation to everything else, just like you can run your DOS/command line in a nice little Desktop window. Yes, they will tweak it here and there to keep businesses happy, but all the new stuff will be done in the Metro world.

Re:And the march continues

[msclrhd]

But on the linux world, you don't have a "press the activities button on Gnome Shell to take you to the KDE desktop, or press the KDE menu to take you to the Unity shell" like you do in Windows 8, with your KDE asnd GNOME applications managed by different task managers.

KDE/Qt applications and GNOME/Gtk+ applications running side-by-side is equivalent to Metro applications running windowed on the Desktop shell, and Desktop applications running full screen Metroized on the Metro shell.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

That is actually completely false. You can only distribute metro apps in the new store, but the new store is by no means the only way to install or distribute a metro app. There are detailed guidelines published and available that describe in detail how to deploy your own metro apps as it is expected enterprises will NOT be using the store.

Re:And the march continues

[narcc]

This has been known for close to a year now.

Okay.

after Apple is swimming in cash in their walled garden, what did you expect?

I expect bad behavior from Apple. I had hoped that, like other platforms, Microsoft would allow alternative app stores. They've been so well behaved lately, after all.

Re:And the march continues

[mikael_j]

Except nothing is preventing you from installing software from anywhere on the net on your Mac that's running OS X (we're not talking iOS here, we're talking OS X vs Windows since this affects desktop computers as well).

What's funny is that I've barely heard a word about this Win8 app store lock-in, especially not from the foaming-at-the-mouth MS fanboys who love to scream about how OS X is a walled garden (because they can't be bothered to understand that iOS and OS X aren't the exact same operating system).

Re:And the march continues

[Rockoon]

Switch between them *during the same session*

You really arent making sense now, because you just declared that its bad because its even easier to switch between window managers than it is on my linux box.

I get it.. you hate having choices.

Re:And the march continues

[mikael_j]

How does Apple block other browsers? Yes, for iOS they do but on OS X (Win8 is, after all, also their new desktop OS) they sure as hell don't.

Re:And the march continues

[gbjbaanb]

amen.

and considering that the majority of apps will be desktop-only for quite some time (IMHO), then the metro UI is pretty much just a full-screen start menu.

And not a very good one at that.

I imagine MS will be deprecating the desktop interface as soon as they can. (sorry, that should read: I think they've deprecated it already, they just haven't told us yet. They'll be removing it as soon as they can).

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck your mother, god damn TROLL!

Re:And the march continues

[sootman]

It's funny that every time Apple does something kinda bad, MS comes along and REALLY does what everyone is worried about. Apple starts an App store and people start worrying that someday ONLY apps from the app store will be allowed, then MS comes along and says "App store apps only!" Everyone worries that the iPad is too popular and Apple will quit making a desktop OS, then MS comes along and says "You're going to use this tablet UI whether you want to or not!"

Granted, using the old style desktop gets you around both of these to some extent, but then, what's the point of having it?

Re:And the march continues

[xtracto]

Wouldn't it be possible to create a "Metro app" that works as a launcher for some other software? that way you can place the icon in the dashboard and set it up to launch whatever normal application you want.

Re:And the march continues

[Rockoon]

with your KDE asnd GNOME applications managed by different task managers.

You are arguing as if this were a good thing. What you seem to be saying is that "yeah Linux currently offers some of the same GUI duality that Windows 8 will, but its worse in Linux because of these other implementation reasons."

I would argue that if Linux is currently doing it poorly, than doing it better is a good idea that the authors of KDE and Gnome should strive for. That the fact that Windows 8 will offer better functionality than what is current in the Linux world is not a mark against Windows 8, but instead a mark against KDE and Gnome (as well as Unity and whatnot.)

This argument that having multiple windowing managers is somehow a bad thing for the users is fairly laughable. Choice is power. Period. When did the Linux crowd forget this?

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

"Enterprise" app story is pretty much completely irrelevant here because it's not something mere mortals will have access to.

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

The only successful mobile platform that allows app sideloading today is Android, and they're getting a lot of talk for problems associated with this model (malware etc). For better or worse, Apple has trained users that they do not have to think about safety and security when installing random apps on their devices.

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

Except nothing is preventing you from installing software from anywhere on the net on your Mac that's running OS X (we're not talking iOS here, we're talking OS X vs Windows since this affects desktop computers as well).

Well, Win8 Metro is roughly as if you'd suddenly were able to run iOS software on OS X; if that is to ever happen, do you think you'll be able to install it from outside the store? As far as the classic desktop app story goes, it's still free for all, thankfully.

Re:And the march continues

[mcgrew]

Every decision now seems to be driven by a philosophy of "Let's make Firefox worse!!"

As long as they have a traditional desktop interface, why would integration into W8 be detrimental? If their interface is metro-only then I would agree it's a problem. But I think a worse problem is "making it look like IE". I don't like IE. If I wanted a browser that looked and acted like IE I'd use IE. Well, on the notebook anyway, IE won't run in Linux.

Whoever modded the parent should comment, because there's no way in hell the comment was a troll. Just because you disagree with a comment, even a strongly worded one, doesn't make it a troll. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. If you disagree with him, then comment. Lots of other stories to waste your mod points on.

Re:And the march continues

[narcc]

And you thing their success is due to extremely limiting user choice? Do you think this approach is good for computing as a whole?

What about people or companies who write their own software? Is this approach good for them or is it unnecessarily limiting?

Is there a danger that this restricted freedom will harm the industry in the long run as developers are forced to play by the increasingly strict rules of a few major vendors?

When did vendor lock-in become a good thing?

Re:And the march continues

[shutdown -p now]

And you thing their success is due to extremely limiting user choice?

It certainly plays a part in that, yes. Most users don't appreciate freedom of choice, and will gladly trade it for security, real or perceived.

Do you think this approach is good for computing as a whole?

As a geek, no, I don't, because it limits my freedom, which I actually use. On the other hand, I do appreciate it that I can buy an iPad for my mom, and she can't screw it up by installing random crap on it.

Is there a danger that this restricted freedom will harm the industry in the long run as developers are forced to play by the increasingly strict rules of a few major vendors?

Nothing long term about it, it's already happening.

When did vendor lock-in become a good thing?

It didn't become a good thing, it just became a reality to deal with.

Re:And the march continues

[narcc]

Well, at least we're in near-perfect agreement.

It still terrifies me, however.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

>>me twisting into contortions
>No, calling you out on strawmanning and deliberate misreading is not me twisting. It's you being an asshole
>Meet the bit bucket, asshole.

wow. what a fucking dickhead.

Re:And the march continues

[Anonymous Coward]

hahaha protip?

ah to be 13 and ignorant...

Why

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you do this terrible thing.

Re:Why

[Anonymous Coward]

To stay relevant in the browser market i guess... so it's a good move for firefox, a bad move for me. i so do not want that metro stuff

Re:Why

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 8 won't allow any browser to become the default unless it's accessible through the Metro UI. It's still the same firefox and can be accessed from the non-Metro interface too. Random sentence needed because I already had to post this reply.

Re:Why

[PNutts]

Ummm... You were wrong the first time, too.

Plan

[Anonymous Coward]

Get it half finished. Deploy it suddenly. Ignore complaints. Take 4-5 releases to get it feature complete. Discover why it sucks. Adopt a new paradigm based on voice.

Re:Plan

[Anonymous Coward]

Get it half finished. Deploy it suddenly. Ignore complaints. Take 4-5 releases to get it feature complete. Discover why it sucks. Adopt a new paradigm based on voice.

Did you post to the wrong thread? This one isn't about iOS and Siri.

I wish they wouldn't

[javascriptjunkie]

I find Metro to be counter productive, distracting, and unfriendly. Why are they doing anything with Metro?

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[Shados]

Because a normal desktop UI doesnt work so hot on a tablet, which in the future are bound to replace a big portion of the desktop market. Hybrids (like the Transformer Prime), with a 2 mode tablet/desktop interface, like Windows 8, could seriously replace lap-tops for everyone except serious developers and graphic designers/3d artists/CAD/etc that need a lot of horse power.

Sticking to desktop-only UI would be suicide for Microsoft. Metro works quite fine if you look at it from a tablet point of view.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[oodaloop]

I find Metro to be counter productive, distracting, and unfriendly. Why are they doing anything with Metro?

I guess because they neglected to consult with you beforehand?

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[Anonymous Coward]

Shame that they're forcing it on all those desktop users where it works about as well as dog shit.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[shutdown -p now]

Desktop version of Firefox is not going away.

As for your question, it's answered right there in TFA:

If a browser is awesome on Metro, the only way to use this awesome browser in Metro is for it to become the default. If a browser is default on Metro, it will also be default on the Desktop.

If a browser does not support Metro, it is seriously at risk of losing the default browser status, and therefore significant market share. A browser without support for Metro, if default, would be taking away a Metro browser completely from the user's computer.

Even if a user spends most of their time in the Desktop interface, having a really good Metro browser may be enough for the user to change their default browser. A browser with great Metro support can gain significant browser market share for this reason.

It is extremely important that we deliver an awesome Firefox experience on Metro, one that is tightly integrated with the platform, fast, and feature rich. Windows is by far the platform with the most users and which has the biggest effect on market share.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[epyT-R]

which would be fine if it was a selectable option in the control panel or install time. tablet interfaces suck with a keyboard/mouse, whether it's a powerful cadstation or a student's school computer.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[WaffleMonster]

Because a normal desktop UI doesnt work so hot on a tablet, which in the future are bound to replace a big portion of the desktop market.

Replacing the desktop is like end times prophecy. We've been hearing drumbeats of marketeers with their death to * predictions since the dawn of civilization yet >1bn PCs are still here.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[Anonymous Coward]

Shame that they're forcing it on all those desktop users where it works about as well as dog shit.

Yeah, but making desktops suck is much easier than making tablets good.

I'll let you in a secret: this is all a plan of FreeBSD to take over Windows and Linux' marketshare. What is more likely, that both Microsoft and Canonical decided to create the worst UI possible or that they are nothing but pawns in a neckbeard's game?

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[DavidD_CA]

You can disable the Metro interface through a registry setting. Upon release it might be even easier. It will certainly be a GPO that can be set.

Or you could just try it out. You might actually like it.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[adamstew]

This is NOT true in the consumer preview. You could disable Metro in the developer preview via a registry setting, but it is NOT possible to disable metro in the consumer preview via a registry setting. The only way to disable it in Consumer preview is with a 3rd party application hack.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[kuldan]

That was in the DP, not in the CP - they actually removed the Registry key, and multiple times have stated that there will be no official way to get rid of metro.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[gbjbaanb]

Sticking to desktop-only UI would be suicide for Microsoft. Metro works quite fine if you only look at it from a tablet point of view.

there, FTFY.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[Robert Zenz]

Wait, so you also can't start into another shell?

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[Shados]

Which is why it can be toggled with one button. It also works fine if all you're doing is browsing the web, looking up a calendar or checking your email, which is what 90% of people do anyway. I'm a software developer (as many here are too I guess). 90% of the time i'm looking at a computer when I'm not coding still would work perfectly fine on a tablet-style UI. A big chunk of the rest of the time is a game...which only needs to get launched.

Re:I wish they wouldn't

[kuldan]

Well, you can.. there is some web magic around already that lets you add a "run at logon" script that opens the Desktop "App" bypassing the metro launch screen and also the swipe to unlock screen.. and if you install start8 from stardock you don't have to bother using metro for the basic tasks.. but as soon as you change stuff (that includes joining a wlan, that is metro now too..the volume slider isn't though) and have to use the control panel, you're back to metro.

Don't like it so far

[Anonymous Coward]

I've only seen videos of how Windows 8 and Metro work, but have to say to looks awful so far. Windows 7 and XP are the only interfaces I can bare to use for any extended period of time (can't stand OS X, Gnome, KDE, etc). What is going to be the alternative for people like me who like the WIMP model in a desktop OS?

Re:Don't like it so far

[turkeyfeathers]

What is going to be the alternative for people like me who like the WIMP model in a desktop OS?

Work really hard so you can retire before Windows 7 goes EOL.

Re:Don't like it so far

[ChunderDownunder]

By the time Win7 reaches EOL, perhaps ReactOS will have had a 1.0 release!

Re:Don't like it so far

[the eric conspiracy]

Fortunately I'm old enough so this is a realistic goal.

Re:Don't like it so far

[Truekaiser]

and still have less then 1/3 the hardware compatibility of linux or bsd.

Microsoft Mobile Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Irony at its best.

Since windows mobile failed to sell in numbers, now they bring it to the desktop.

Will OEM's ship Windows with desktop as default or Metro as default? Will be interesting to see. Most likely MS "encouraged" them to not ship desktop as default mode, especially the big name shelf OEM's.

Re:Microsoft Mobile Desktop

[shutdown -p now]

Will OEM's ship Windows with desktop as default or Metro as default?

It's not an option you can switch. When you boot into Win8, you end up in the Metro home screen, period.

Re:Microsoft Mobile Desktop

[the eric conspiracy]

Metro = Revenge of Bob.

You heard it first on Slashdot.

Re:Microsoft Mobile Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no zombie bob oh no

Why?

[TechNit]

Friends don't let friends use IE....

Re:Why?

[TechNit]

And real friends don't let friends use METRO!!

Re:Why?

[Ash-Fox]

And real friends don't let friends use METRO!!

Why?

Re:Why?

[epyT-R]

because desktop computers != tablets.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't you give a friend a lift?

Re:Why?

[Ash-Fox]

because desktop computers != tablets.

Metro seems to work fine on my desktop computer? I'm not really seeing how this doesn't work with a mouse cursor.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try using multiple monitors. Then try hitting that hidden tiny pixel. Dumbass.

Re:Why?

[Ash-Fox]

Try using multiple monitors.

I am using a dual monitor setup.

Then try hitting that hidden tiny pixel. Dumbass.

No idea what you're talking about here.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what is not clear? What the hell to click on for things to work. Somewhere in that morass of gui they forgot to make it usable.

Oh it 'works' if you know exactly what to do. I just can not WAIT for when my family gets ahold of this gui disaster and they get to relearn how to just do something simple like 'open an application' and 'close it'.

Re:Why?

[Ash-Fox]

You know what is not clear? What the hell to click on for things to work. Somewhere in that morass of gui they forgot to make it usable.

I don't know, seemed simple enough to me. Not much different from my phone.

Oh it 'works' if you know exactly what to do. I just can not WAIT for when my family gets ahold of this gui disaster and they get to relearn how to just do something simple like 'open an application' and 'close it'.

Makes you wonder how people ever managed to use DOS. But then I remember people hating Windows 95 because it was so different to DOS. I imagine Metro is going to be something similar to this.

Dead language?

[wbr1]

Isnt coding apps for a dead OS like Win 8 a bit like writing sci-fi in latin? Only it makes even less sense.

Re:Dead language?

[gstrickler]

A dead OS with 85% desktop market share??? Tablets and other mobile computing devices may make it far less dominant, maybe even eventually make it irrelevant, but we're a long way from irrelevance, and it's definitely not dead yet.

Re:Dead language?

[Kenshin]

Maybe not a "Dead OS". An OS with a gun pointed at its temple, a finger on the trigger, and a bullet in one of the 6 chambers.

Re:Dead language?

[Haxagon]

Yes, bastion of intellect, coding applications for an unreleased version of the most popular consumer Operating System is the dumbest idea.

Re:Dead language?

[SEE]

Windows the family has 85% marketshare. "Windows 8" has 0%.

And remember the pattern:

Windows 98 SE
Windows Me
Windows XP
Windows Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8

Metro is a Windows 8 exclusive.

Re:Dead language?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's dead but still shuffling along looking for more brains to eat. You actually have to smash its head flat with a shovel multiple times until it finally stops moving thereby ceasing to be an infectious threat.

Re:Dead language?

[bloodhawk]

Vista, perhaps the most universally hated version of windows in the last decade still has a higher market share to this day than ANY non windows based desktop OS. So even if win 8 ends up being a universal flop it is still likely to trounce any version of Mac/linux in actual market share. So unless you think it would also be a bright idea to not write desktop apps for the Mac or for linux then I would suggest you are the one not making much sense.

Re:Dead language?

[gstrickler]

Windows 8 has 0% because it hasn't shipped yet. Pretty tough to have market share when the product isn't available yet. It's also pretty tough to call it "dead" when it's still under development.

I like the "Early Tile Design"

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest, I was expecting the Opera logo.

Slashdot Screenshot

[Bucky24]

Anyone else notice that in one of the screenshots of the new interface the browser is showing slashdot?

(You'll have to read TFA to see it though)

This stupid society thing needs to stop. NOW.

[Anonymous Coward]

These user interfaces and trends I'm seeing are so fucking dumb it makes me want to puke.

Not because of what the user interfaces are (though they're downright hideous and borderline unusable, if not woefully unproductive to use), but because of what this new mentality represents.

We've gone from a society of "You're not fucking good enough, go learn something and get better at it" to "It's OK to be stupid, you don't need to know how this works to use it". We've all been equipped with this marvellous organ called a BRAIN, and it is capable of LEARNING. Yet these big fucking corporations are effectively telling us that we don't need to use our brains anymore- because they're going to give us user interfaces and computers so simple an ape could run them. They've done all the thinking ON YOUR BEHALF, and if you actually think you might want to think for yourself for a change- you can't anymore, because they've eliminated all the options and settings that any reasonable device should ship with.

News flash, using computing equipment is not a right.

It's a fucking privilege, one that you earn by KNOWING WHAT YOU ARE DOING first.

This bullshit where we need to target the idiots of the idiots and make products for THEM rather then the users who know how to actually do shit needs to stop. We are not all "big babies", we don't need these fucking Fischer Price user interfaces to get shit done. We're grown adults.

If you don't want to use your brain and figure out how to use a computer (god forbid you should actually learn something), then fuck you. And fuck the corporations who think you're suddenly this untapped user base just waiting to be exploited, because now I'm going to suffer for your goddam stupidity.

-AC

Re:This stupid society thing needs to stop. NOW.

[cavreader]

If your going to have a hissy fit why don't you develop an interface that does the the things you are bitching about?

Re:This stupid society thing needs to stop. NOW.

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

We've gone from a society of "You're not fucking good enough, go learn something and get better at it" to "It's OK to be stupid, you don't need to know how this works to use it". We've all been equipped with this marvellous organ called a BRAIN, and it is capable of LEARNING. Yet these big fucking corporations are effectively telling us that we don't need to use our brains anymore- because they're going to give us user interfaces and computers so simple an ape could run them. They've done all the thinking ON YOUR BEHALF, and if you actually think you might want to think for yourself for a change- you can't anymore, because they've eliminated all the options and settings that any reasonable device should ship with.

You know what really irks me? Software. It's like these corporations are telling me that I don't have the BRAIN to program my own machine. People these days are so fucking lazy! Whenever they want something done on their PC, they just look for some software that SOMEONE ELSE wrote, whose done all the THINKING and LEARNING for them. The end result? We get these bloated, rigid messes known as "graphical user interfaces", extremely limited customisation, and huge lags in computer speeds. All because people's time is too "precious". Less precious than their own brain development apparently.

Goddamn right that using computing equipment is not a right. Only the people who earned their chops, like in the computing's very earliest of days, should be allowed to use them. They're the ones who know what they're doing. They'd be disgusted with 99.99% of the people who use computers these days.

Re:This stupid society thing needs to stop. NOW.

[PNutts]

You need to separate the tool from the task. Let's see.. Car analogy... Car analogy... OK. It's great that you know when you press on the accelerator it pulls a wire where the other end is connected to a carburetor which changes the fuel/air mixture (fuel that's from the gas tank that is typically located apart from the engine for safety because fuel is flammable) on it's way into the intake manifold and then the cylinder which blah blah blah... However, some folks just want to mash the thing on the floor and go faster. It doesn't make them "idiots". You are both in a car (tool) going somewhere to do something (task) and the fact that one of you is more likely to hit a tree is irrelevant.

Re:This stupid society thing needs to stop. NOW.

[epyT-R]

tha'ts just it, he's not just talking about gui design, but its larger implications. one person cannot possibly make inroads on a society-wide problem covering whole cross sections of different contexts..

Re:This stupid society thing needs to stop. NOW.

[cavreader]

If you are going to passionately insult and degrade other peoples efforts you should at least have a tentative solution in mind. Also Linus Torvalds is one man who I beleive made some significant inroads in challenging the more established OS's being offered by others. Of course he did not do everything but his efforts got the ball rolling. One person is all it takes to imagine alternate solutions to address similar problems. Once the idea is communicated to others it will increase the number of people willing to contribute to building and implementing the solution. The number of people getting involved is direct;y related to the idea proffered by one person. Software "design" by committee usually results in failure. However, software "development" by groups can work when implementing the solution based on the new idea.

Fishy

[theswimmingbird]

I knew it was all going downhill when I tested the developer preview and my boot screen was a fish.

I'm pretty sure I don't need this

[cvtan]

I'm almost certain I don't want to use anything that has a "Share Charm".

Re:I'm pretty sure I don't need this

[Anonymous Coward]

What about a pussy charm?

Re:I'm pretty sure I don't need this

[pidge-nz]

"Charms" eh? I've seen enough roleplaying to know where this is going...

Re:I'm pretty sure I don't need this

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind that share isn't necessarily social. Implementing the share contract allows you to exchange data with any other app that implements it. Being able to exchange data with other apps without having to write special purpose code is an extremely useful abstraction.

Re:I'm pretty sure I don't need this

[gbjbaanb]

Charms in Win8: (from an ArsTechnical article)

The charms bar is an always-accessible set of five icons that appear down the right hand edge of the screen. From top to bottom, these icons are Search, Share, Start, Devices, and Settings. Start is the easiest to handle as it simply takes you to the Start screen. Search is used to initiate searches, both of built-in things (files, programs, settings) and applications that register themselves as being searchable. Share allows the content of the current application to be shared in some way with other applications (for example, a Flickr browser might allow URLs to be "shared" with other programs, and a mail client might opt to receive such shared content).

Re:I'm pretty sure I don't need this

[yabos]

It's not as bad as "squirt" but pretty close

Watch the Linux and Unix support rot away

[Anonymous Coward]

...now that they're into the very latest Windows gadgetry.

slashdotted...

[advocate_one]

Error

Over Quota

This application is temporarily over its serving quota. Please try again later.

need ?

[Tom]

In order to provide an alternative to IE on Windows 8, Firefox needs a Metro UI.

Says who? Based on what evidence?

I'm getting more and more unhappy with the FF development process. These guys need to get off the "innovation for innovation's sake" boat and check in with their userbase again. How about you put your time into solving that stuttering youtube-videos issue that's been plaguing the browser since around 2009?

But, of course, a new UI is more "visible". The FF dev team has encountered the bikeshed problem and is completely unprepared to handle it. They're doing stuff like an HTML5 MMO demo. Which, while being an interesting project, doesn't address any of the core issues.

I've been using FF since long before it was called that (anyone remember the year it had three name changes?). But recently, I'm thinking very seriously about moving to either Chrome or Safari. Mostly because between the rapid releases for no good reason and all the bullshit nonsense they pour their time into, and all the pointless UI changes just because, I don't see the project going anywhere. Does it even have a vision anymore?

Re:need ?

[jez9999]

I'm getting more and more unhappy with the FF development process.

Give it up, the UX team took things over a long time ago, with their insistent copying of the Chrome interface. Criticize them and they tell you to piss off. Now all that matters is looking new and shiny, to people who don't really care about using a browser on a day-to-day basis.

What for?

[Anonymous Coward]

What for? Metro is a mistake and will die within a year.

Mozilla should focus on Firefox for Linux and make its GUI faster, because it is clearly not cared for properly.

As soon as they can.

[DrYak]

I imagine MS will be deprecating the desktop interface as soon as they can. (sorry, that should read: I think they've deprecated it already, they just haven't told us yet. They'll be removing it as soon as they can).

As soon as they can =
As soon as all the major Microsoft Products got ported to it, before any concurrent even had the idea of porting but counted instead on the mixed metro-desktop.
(But they'll need probably to help a few of the 3rd party ddevelopper to port things which are "big on windows" but for which microsoft doesn't have a real good in-house alternative).
It really sounds like they try to pull again a "OS2 vs. WinNT". Except that this kind of trick only work once, and a few of the 3rd parties (specially open sources project which can more easily experiment with interfaces) got the idea of trying to be prepared just in case of.

The question that drives us

[sharkey]

Does it Squirt?

Good To Know In Case Unity Works Out

[assertation]

This is good to know. If Firefox is making a version for Metro, they probably have something similar ( or Canonical does ) for Unity.

I'm still on Ubuntu 10.10. When Ubuntu 12.04 LTS comes out I'm going to upgrade. If Unity works for me it will be good to have Firefox blend in.

If not, I will go KDE, go MINT or go Mac.

Oh God Why?

[bacon.frankfurter]

Windows 8 promises to be an awful experience.

I hate Fennec, and I can't imagine the Metro IE being any better.

It's like being given the choose between loose stool with oily discharge and ordinary diarrhea.

Sign of warming b. Mozilla and Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you see the pattern here? Nokia and MS were arch enemies and suddenly the team up to face Android challenge.
Now Mozilla, facing enormous treat from post-PC paradigm shift, failing to compete with Webkit on mobile platforms is looking their chance on Arm with Windows 8 (assuming better HW). MS has no longer ability to kill web standards, if you can't defeat something join it. Mozilla support can only enforce its platform struggle for relevance on mobile devices.

die metro

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish Metro would die a slow horrible death. If I want a tablet interface, I'll use a tablet. I don't want a tablet interface on my PC.