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UK Surgeons Are the First To Operate In 3D
MrSeb writes "A team at Manchester Royal Infirmary hospital, England, claim to be the first surgeons to perform keyhole surgery using 3D cameras and monitors — and embarrassingly clunky spectacles. Furthermore, if that wasn't high-tech enough, the lead surgeon also used a hand-held robotic claw. 3D vision during surgery makes perfect sense: After all, your anatomy is three-dimensional, and when you're making minute incisions with a foot-long instrument, through an entry hole that's just an inch long, depth perception is obviously a huge boon. According to spokeswoman from the hospital, the 3D approach provides much better accuracy, 'therefore reducing the risks of muscle and nerve damage.' The same spokesperson also said that the 3D projection would reduce surgeon fatigue, presumably because trying to make sense of a 2D image for hours on end is incredibly strenuous."
I don't see how this is any different from what Da Vinci has been doing for a decade. Can somebody enlighten me as to what they did first?
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Prostate cancer surgery and hysterectomies is already done with robots and 3D vision. 80% of prostatectomies in the US are done with the "Da Vinci" robot in a procedure called Robot Assisted Laparascopic Prostatectomy. The surgeon operates the robot through a console with 3D vision. http://www.davinciprostatectomy.com/davinci_prostatectomy/index.aspx
Mine is better, because it goes up to 11D. Across the 8th Dimension. Most only go up to 10D.
"You can check your anatomy all you want, and even though there may be normal variation, when it comes right down to it, this far inside the head it all looks the same. No, no, no, don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to. "
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Really? I am getting so sick and tired of everything being in 3D nowadays!
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Humans are capable of seeing 3d without technology and in fact every surgery that was done without electronics and optics have always been 3D.
So they've figured out that using a 3d microscope is a good idea? Seriously? Weren't most of us taught this in high school or something?
Funny how people get excited when technology finally catches up to the way we've done it all along.
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Uhm... I'm pretty sure that every single one of the Intuitive Surgical DaVinci robot workstations are 3D for the operator -- and we all know that hundreds of surgeries are performed with these every day.. In this video of researchers playing "Operation" (the board game) with a DaVinci robot, you can see the operator console with separate eye pieces to give 3D effects. I personally got to play with a DaVinci at IROS (robotics conference) last year, and the operator console was definitely in 3D -- though the observer consoles are just normal 2D TVs. I was told that this had been standard for a _long_ time.
From TFA:
3D projection would reduce surgeon fatigue, presumably because trying to make sense of a 2D image for hours on end is incredibly strenuous
I'd love to know what percentage of surgeons can see 3D images and look at them for hours without getting a headache. Personally I find 2D images much less stressful to look at.
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How is this possible ?
I'm pretty sure the doctors were operating in 3d when I broke my arm
Probably because socialised medicine is an innovation itself.
are still operating solely on 2D. While the lack of depth has gone unnoticed for a long while now, especially amongst politicians, those folk who have the audacity to have some depth to them will be happy to hear this.
because socialised medicine actually works?. We;ve been doing it for decades in the UK. OK it's not perfect, sometimes you have to wait a while for non-urgent procedures but we're always guaranteed no matter what our social/economic standing, and the drug companies are not in cahoots with the insurance guys and hospitals to inflate the price of everything, so we don't have to pay $100 for a $0.10 pill.
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I wonder if surgeons are tested for spatial perception. At least in Finland for instance architects have weeklong entrance exams, where they are tested, among other things, for their ability to think in 3d. As an architect, I am asking just out of curiosity, if this is the case also with surgeons?
We are also using scalpels for model building...
... as though no innovation occurs in US medical treatments and technologies under our system of private insurers. Sure (rolls eyes). If you're satisfied with your socialized medicine, bully for you. But for us in the US with the looming specter of 'Obamacare", it's odd that if it's so wonderful, why not many (and no media) are questioning why the President and all of Congress (and their dependents) will be exempt from it.
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More expensive, new, relatively untested or poorly tested, and dangerous treatment options rushed through by the drug company dominated and controlled FDA is not necessarily better. Also, not all medical innovations in the US are a product of the insurers - THAT is a ridiculous assertion.
And I LIVE in the USA. We don't have a single system, far from it. Just ignoring the people on Medicare and the system in place for veterans doesn't make those "socialized" systems nonexistent, no matter what your particular political agenda.
Also, congress and the President are not "exempt" from "Obamacare".
I know Canadians that are better informed on American health care than you are. Sad. But oddly typical.
The continuous, driving rain, the dysfunctional inhabitants and the general misery of life in Manchester probably makes the surgeons think it's still 1912. (I know, I know...Manchester has never got over the sense of entitlement it got from having the world's first stored-program practical digital computer, and having had Alan Turing as its star programmer.
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The Da Vinci robot is, as it names implies, a *robot*. It is remotely controlled.
The surgeon isn't operating the patient directly, the surgeon is sitting comfortably at a console, manipulating joysticks and looking into a cinemascope-type of fixed goggle 3d display. Then in the next room, the robot is working (almost) alone (except maybe for a couple of assisting humans) remotely according to the piloting performed by the surgeon. Most of the time the patient isn't opened but the robot instruments are passed through small holes on the patient's skin.
(It's currently in the next room, so if anything goes wrong, the surgeons can sterilize his hands and pick up the work from where the robot failed. But there has been tests performed with longer distance and a different surgeon staying in "stand by" mode)
In this case:
- the surgery is performed by a robot.
- the surgeon is sitting next door, not above the patient.
- only the surgeon gets 3D pics
- the assitants get normal flat 2D pics on monitors in the operating room. (And during the few operation I've seen, the surgeon can use his better 3D perception and higher dexterity robot instruments to assist the assitants passing material, like stiching material).
Laparoscopy: :-) )
It's closed surgergy. You don't open the patient, but you manually put instruments through the skin. Also everybody (surgeon + whole crew) is in the operating room. To see what you're doing you put 1 single normal 2D camera into the body (usually using fiber optics to avoid putting the whole thing inside
So:
- The surgeon is operating with her/his own hands using long rigid instruments passed through the patient's skin.
- Everybody (surgeon included) gets the same 2D picture on the screen inside the operating room.
This case:
2 variations from laparoscopy. They use stereoscopic pictures and robotic claws. So the "new" differences are:
- The surgeon is still operating but her/his hands are holding hand-held robotic claws instead of simply "longer-than-classical" instruments.
- The camera gives a 3D feed on the monitors for everyone, as long as they wear glasses.
That's new in UK apparently (and I haven't heard about the method before)
I don't know if you make 3 holes like classical laparoscopy (1 for the camera's fiber optics, 2 channels for passing instruments) or if you need 4 holes (2 for the camera)
Another type of operation worth mentionning:
Endoscopy. In this case absolutely everything is mounting on a long tentacle-shaped probe. The probe is completely articulated like a tentacle (unlike the long rigid instruments of laparoscopy, or the few joints of robotic instruments), although it doesn't move actively (it's not remotely controlled like robotic stuff, it can only bends to follow the shape of the hollow space you're following) although you *can* control the orientation of the tip (to pick up the correct turn in branching anatomy). It contains absolutely everything for the surgery packed into the tentacle: fiber optics for imaging and lights, a channel to rince and/or spray drugs, another channel to vacuum (aspiration), and a channel to pass ultra long ultra thin flexible instrument (like a small claw).
I think most models lack the possibility to use a big electro cuterisation, but given the small claw you can't cut enough to cause massive bleedings which aren't resolved by simply spraying adrenaline.
- Because of the small channel and small claw, it's mostly used for biopsies (taking a small chunk of something suspect to send it to the lab for analysis).
- The claw is next to the image (at the tip of the tentacle, not a separate instrument separately operated). So you don't look while moving the instrument, instead you move the whole tentacle in position and chomp whatever is directly in front.
- Because everything is contained into a single probe and the probe is articulated, this is mostly used to explore open orifices like the lungs (from the mouth) or the guts (from the mouth or the oppos
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all patients first had to be flattened
You really are bad at this whole "arguing your case like an adult" thing. The mixture of hubris and ignorance is eye-wateringly awkward.
Good, 'cause I'm 3d.
Now it would be really awesome to have haptic feedback! Imagine, cutting through virtual bone with a virtual saw!
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It seems the surgeons were wrong in their claim — the Da Vinci surgical system, which also operates in 3D, has existed for at least 10 years. Maybe the UK surgeons are talking about a different kind of 3D
Apparently "innovation in a country with socialized medicine" means reinventing a wheel that was approved by the FDA in the US ten years ago.
Wow, good thing we have your law expertise to interpret the healthcare act. Oh, so you are not a lawyer? Well, who told you they would be exempt from a law that doesn't have exemptions for most all of the mandates? Your anti-Obama friends that also aren't lawyers? Well, certainly then it makes much more sense that there is a grand conspiracy against the American people and forcing them to get private insurance and not that your friends are willfully and maliciously ignorant.
I'm going to assume when you talk about exemptiions, you are talking about the insurance mandate, since that is what the conservatives have their panties in a twist over. Yes, Obama and Congress are exempt from buying health insurance under the law, just like most all Americans are, because they ALREADY have health insurance.
because socialised medicine actually works?
My wife called GP this morning at 8:00, she got through at 8:10 and was told there's no slots for today left. Not the first time this happened, that's why she knows to call 8:00 when they open the lines. You cannot register for next day either, she will have to call again 8:00 tomorrow. That's socialised medicine for you. NHS sucks.
Then try a different GP practice. Whenever I phone up my doctors it is almost always a week's wait until the first available appointment. TBH I think I'd rather take my chances having to call first thing, it'd probably result in a shorter waiting time for me. No-one said the NHS was perfect, but it does work. And you are still free to go private.
So what? It took my wife the best part of an hour on the phone to find a doctor that was even accepting new patients. When she did, it was a 3 week wait for an appointment. A few months ago, I was suffering from a kidney stone. Couldn't get in to see my doctor that day so ended up at an urgent care center. That place wasn't in network, so I ended up paying $3,500 for treatment instead of $20. Welcome to the U.S.A. Be proud and thankful for the NHS.
Obamacare isn't socialized medicine, it's a gift to the insurance companies and doesn't help the problem at all. The problem is, we have the most expensive health care in the world but by any metric you care to measure it, it's far from the best. The insurance companies themselves are the problem. They're middlemen who siphon cash without adding any value whatever. Medical insurance companies (and their brothers, malpractice insurance) are parasites on the system.
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