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Will Kickstarter Launch a Gaming Renaissance?

Posted by timothy on from the pair-a-dimes-shift dept.

jfruh writes "Most gamers probably know that legendary game designer Tim Schafer turned to Kickstarter to help raise money a new adventure game; aiming for $400,000, he managed to raise more than $3 million. But you might not know that a host of other game projects are doing well on the crowdfunding site, with creators ranging from industry famous to unknown. By bypassing corporate funding and appealing directly to their audience, these developers are sparking a renaissance in quirky, personal games that probably wouldn't be backed by a big label looking for a sure-fire hit."

35 of 170 comments (clear)

  1. Wasteland 2 by Jaysyn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I personally am really looking forward to see what comes out of the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
    1. Re:Wasteland 2 by Beelzebud · · Score: 2

      You and me both. It's going to be a long year of waiting.

    2. Re:Wasteland 2 by Niedi · · Score: 3, Informative

      +1 here!

      However my personal favorite is Al Lowe's new/remade Leisure Suit Larry, although I'm not quite sure if it'll make its goal... I have quite fond memories for that series.
      But anyway, let's just see how many more old gems will get revived and how long it will take until the crappy ones start to creep in...

    3. Re:Wasteland 2 by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? Well then I guess that the answer is no, this will not launch a gaming Renaissance. So far in my scans of these posts, I have seen a sequel, a remake, people fixated on return on investment, and the established developers getting priority over new, unproven programmers.

      That sounds just like our existing games industry to me! The established industry still has an avenue for potentially unprofitable ideas. It's called indie developers.

      Also, the idea of giving money to games you want to see made is not new, as people do the same with pre-orders. Some people had Duke Nukem Forever on pre-order for a decade!

    4. Re:Wasteland 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The pattern seems to be of remakes of and sequels to classic-style games from the 1990s, of a type which the mainstream games industry claims no longer has a market. The people with experience making such games have found a way around the traditional middlemen. I think there's room for this pattern to continue for five years or so, tapping the veins of creativity that were cut short by the consolidation of the gaming industry, before I'd start demanding completely-new titles (which may or may not be supportable through the Kickstarter model).

    5. Re:Wasteland 2 by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 2

      Hey we've been waiting over 20 already. The only thing we have to worry about in one year is if the crazy politicians decide to start world war 3. And if that is the case, I just have to find some like minded individuals who know first aid and pugilism.

      --
      God spoke to me
  2. Will it start a renaissance? by mseeger · · Score: 2

    I surely hope so..... at least i backed 4 projects in two weeks :-)

    P.S. I recommend a look here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mercenary-games/vigrior-maneuver-warfare

    1. Re:Will it start a renaissance? by tfigment · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Pretty much same here different games probably. I've funded 6 games in past 3 weeks or so. 5 of those have already hit their targets. Shadowrun Returns, Wasteland 2 and the DFA game are run away successes I think in this phase. I don't think the 6th one will make its targets.

      I think it will be successful for well known but niche titles. I have very few problems giving my money to the original authors of the games as that is probably a safe bet. I have slightly more reservations with new content from unknowns or people who have only good mods in their pocket. But I have invested in both just to see if this spurs on new kinds of development but I'm not giving $15 or $1000 to just anybody as there are few guarantees here that the money will be well spent and I will see anything in return in 1-2 years.

      I don't care for the latest action game or multiplayer whatever. I'm far more interested in games with content and choices and a little back story not ones that accurately model the reloading behavior of the latest military firearms. Unfortunately we seem to be getting better graphics and animation and worse content as years go by. These kickstarters are showing that there is a market for older style games from decades past that are being updated for today's computers without having to sell your soul to the publisher in exchange for money.

    2. Re:Will it start a renaissance? by fredgiblet · · Score: 3, Informative

      If this is supposed to be some gaming renaissance, why shouldn't Linux be considered? Apparently the rebirth of gaming can only be Windows/Mac?

      It WAS considered. The reason why it won't be used is because it will cost more money and won't give any significant return. Also it will require either the existing programmers to learn the quirks of programming for Linux or it will require a seperate team to make the conversion later. Why throw a Renaissance if no one is going to show up?

    3. Re:Will it start a renaissance? by Thalaric · · Score: 3, Informative
      I don't want to get anyone's hopes up because a Linux port is probably still completely off the table, but in response to the large number of comments on the Shadowrun Returns kickstarter page they replied:

      "... Anyway, we want to let you know that we're definitely listening to your feedback and you can expect a full, considered response about Linux early this week. As a company, we are being very careful not to over-commit to ideas and features just to get more funding - everything we decide to include in Shadowurn Returns needs to be within our ability to deliver as part of a great product."

    4. Re:Will it start a renaissance? by Expedite+Game · · Score: 2

      Also you can see an old school BOARD GAME. Check out. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/49100723/expedite-a-fast-paced-route-building-game-of-world

    5. Re:Will it start a renaissance? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

      And Linux heads need to understand that porting games to Linux can be difficult. A big problem is when you start talking 3D. The 3D situation is a bit of a mess on Linux. If you want some more info on it from developers who have done work in that regard look for remarks by iD or Mozilla. Basically when you start talking more advanced features, only the nVidia binary blob drivers can reliably handle it.

      Well that is a big recipe for fail if you are developing a game. You'd end up either having to spend tons more on Linux QA, or have a Linux client that was broken on a bunch of systems. You can avoid that by going 2D and using something like SDL which is pretty good at cross platform, but maybe you don't want to do that, you want 3D.

      Plus there's the issue that maybe you don't want to develop the engine from the ground up. That's a lot of work, time, and potential for issues. There's a lot of game engines that can be licensed and many of the somewhat older ones can be had for not too much money. However if said engine isn't Linux, bringing it to Linux is a big undertaking.

      Also all costs have to be weighed against returns. How many people are going to buy it only if a Linux port is available? You can't very well go and spend $30,000 on development and QA for Linux if you'll get $5,000 in sales for it, particularly if the project is on a small budget.

      Finally for a small dev it can be a matter of who you have and what they are good at. So let's say they have no Linux programmers, or at least nobody who's got any real experience with this kind of thing. You then have to bring someone on to do that and they probably want a reasonable salary. This is on top of all the QA time and all that other shit. It isn't a case of "Just have this guy here work on Linux too," it can be bringing someone new in.

    6. Re:Will it start a renaissance? by nschubach · · Score: 2

      How many people are going to buy it only if a Linux port is available?

      Invalid question. The Kickstarter should cover development costs. Sales above and beyond the Kickstarter should be pure profit. You already have N number of customers who have purchased a copy. You MAY get residual sales after that, but if you are counting on them, you'd be an idiot.

      Yeah, and with nearly twice the original budget (750K/400K)... you don't think they can find a Linux dev to toss some code around? Even if they pay someone 100K just for this one project, they still have a good 250K above and beyond their original goal/estimate. A few more days and they may even have $1million, leaving them with PLENTY of cash to throw at a community that's biting for games.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  3. Let's wait by kamapuaa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As somebody who put in money for Wasteland 2, I'm negative about Kickstarter. I'll even join the official backlash team.

    Let's wait until a single good game has been released under this model. Or really, a single good game has been released from somebody who doesn't already have a large fanbase and nostalgia helping him get attention.

    Furthermore, there's really no accountability under this whole scheme. What if the game released is totally amateurish? What if the developers just pocket half the money? What if the money ends up not being enough and the game is only half completed? What recourse do the "donators" have?

    System seems ripe for being abused...Leisure Suit Larry's kickstarter suggests the money is needed to make the game, glossing over that the game has already been under production for at least half a year. Presumably they already had the money, it doesn't mention where the donation's going.

    --
    Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    1. Re:Let's wait by Beelzebud · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well right now we're seeing many popular projects from people who are industry veterans going back 20-25 years. These are people with established reputations as being able to manage teams, and million dollar budgets. The only thing developers have to lose in this deal is their names and reputations, which if any of them wishes to remain in the industry, that will be a huge incentive not to rip people off. I think that's why you see people putting their trust in these bigger projects. It's also why it is harder for less known people to have a successful kickstarter campaign. The community backlash from someone abusing kickstarter would be career suicide.

    2. Re:Let's wait by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

      100% agreement. I kicked the bucket for wasteland 2 based on nothing but the title. No concept art, no details, no script treatment, nothing but a title and a hope for the game I wanted.

      Remember Barack Obama in 2008? He had the hope and change, but no details. He was an empty canvas of sorts on which you could imagine he'd do all the things you supported. There was something for everybody. Then he got elected, started making decisions instead of speeches, and the thrill was gone.

      Every wasteland status update will disappoint somebody (don't get me started on the "social aspects").

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:Let's wait by Creepy · · Score: 2

      Many things on Kickstarter are already in production but need some extra funding to see final light. The Leisure Suit Larry people, as I understand it, are working on the "original" game with updated graphics after acquiring the license and original developer, but it obviously isn't done yet since some of the rewards are to add supporters in as in-game graphics. I use quotes around original because the original game was Softporn Adventure by Charles Benton, which was nearly identical but all text based (and published by On-Line Systems, which became Sierra On-Line.

      As for amateurish, who knows - even corporate funded games with good leads can do that; as for pocketing the money, I don't feel like that is an issue because usually the pledge includes the game itself, access to the closed beta, or some other reward. It is probably a lot more risky to support a product that has not started development, but in the same light people like Brian Fargo have been in the industry a long time and can be seen as more trustworthy than others. He obviously hasn't managed to get corporate backing to do Wasteland 2, which is why he's appealing to fans of the game. Basically, for your pledge you are getting something out of it, not just giving them boatloads of cash to do with as they please.

    4. Re:Let's wait by grumbel · · Score: 2

      System seems ripe for being abused...Leisure Suit Larry's kickstarter suggests the money is needed to make the game, glossing over that the game has already been under production for at least half a year.

      All they have is a single background and a bit of animation that they used to pitch the game to publishers, they don't have a game. The publishers didn't want it, so they are now pitching it to kickstarter.

    5. Re:Let's wait by bfandreas · · Score: 2

      LL1 has already been remade as VGA/256 colours if memory serves me right. I do distinctly remember that Space Quest 1 got remade in the Space Quest IV engine.
      The thing is, I don't think LL1 needs to be remade. The EGA original had its very own charme and high-definition propably won't be able to add anything to it. Besides, a 1:1 remake will propably be lost on the current generation of gamers. It's a tale of an idiot clinging to late 70ies stereotypes which will be lost on anybody born past 1960.

      I played it as a 14 or 15 year old kid and it took me a couple of years to see it wasn't a portrayal of a good dating approach but a parody. LL1 is only funny when put into historical context otherwise you'll get only half of the references. The other half will stay hilarious forever.

      Also: how do you explain to a 14 or 15 year old kid in 2012 the concept of payphones?
      No, LL1 is a true thing of the past, a historical moment and should be portrayed on the canvas that was available at the time.

      What a farking luddite I am.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    6. Re:Let's wait by flowwolf · · Score: 2

      Okay then "Big Publisher Damage Control Consultant", doing his job auspiciously as possible. The accountability is there. The reputation of those who asked for funding is already there. If studios don't follow through on their development promises, you'll be damned sure that people won't forget about it. They won't be seeing any more of that sweet KickStarter nectar if they try that monkey business. You screw your investors/customers over and they'll take their money elsewhere. That's how reputation works. Too long has the publishing industry forgotten that earning a bad reputation can build up to massive repercussions.

      I think that this amount of money pouring into independent direct funding has completely blind sided publishing studios. I guarantee you that they are taking it seriously. When your business model is built entirely around being the middle man, the last thing you want your customers to do is to learn how to remove the middle man. Publishers have always been at war with the direct funding model and will usually just use the acquisition strategy to counter that movement. KickStarter revealed something different. KickStarter is a means to a market movement they never anticipated. Even if KickStarter gets bought and dismantled, the training wheels are on and the direct funding model is rolling. We have the technology.

  4. If you want a consumer product, by aussersterne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    buy a consumer product. If you want to make an investment, make an investment.

    Kickstarter is not a store, nor is it a brokerage. It is a place to donate and support things you'd like to see happen. Don't send any money their way if you're hoping for some sort of guaranteed return. It's a kind of participation, activism, or expression, not a kind of transaction.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:If you want a consumer product, by forand · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you are suggesting is called investing, not donation, it legally requires far more hurdles for a fledgling business to jump through to obtain. Furthermore, until the recent signing of the JOBS Act it was illegal for average people to make such investments within the US.

      While I would love to be able to invest directly with local businesses there is a real concern about fraud when dealing with hundreds of thousands of small investment options. The SEC, or anything like it, is incapable of ensuring a limited risk to fraud for investors. We are in the infancy of crowd funding and while I yearn for a well regulated and open marketplace to invest in local business I think it reasonable that we take it one step at a time and not rush into things.

    2. Re:If you want a consumer product, by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      It's not murky.

      You give some money. They might produce game.

      Crystal clear.

    3. Re:If you want a consumer product, by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      So are you claiming it isn't like I said?

      And I'm not sure where you pulled the negative interpretation from.

      I donated to the watelander 2 one - I'm ust not stupid enough to not know that it's me donating money and them maybe producing a worthwhile game.

      Oh sorry, anon coward of course, keep a trolling.

    4. Re:If you want a consumer product, by englishknnigits · · Score: 2

      I agree with most of what you said but there is already a solution to handling high risk investments. Demand a high return. If the company can provide some evidence that the investment is lower risk (such as having a track record of success, submitting to regular external audits/reviews, etc.) then they don't have to offer as much compensation. I'm sure you will even see firms with the experience and the time to do some due diligence and suggest/handle crowd funding investments for a fee/%. People are finally being freed from stocks and real estate being their only investment options. There will certainly be more fraud and more people putting money where they can't afford to lose it but there will also be people who are more diversified and not losing all their hard earned savings to inflation and the whims of wall street.

  5. Renaissance? by RyanFenton · · Score: 2

    In other discussions I've seen, the assumption seems to be that the first game that betrays expectations will doom the whole system.

    I don't think that's true - this isn't an investment cycle, but more a method of pre-purchasing that cuts the last link that was tying small game makers to publishers - seen money for projects.

    Collapse isn't inevitable - but I do see some interesting circumstances occurring as Kickstarter is forced to pull funding from some projects, or resulting in empty demo games with no plans for completion.

    The idea is still critical though - a mechanism for the potential audience of an entertainment product to freely contribute to the seed money for that product. It will certainly be some rocky challenges ahead - but the core idea will survive, and I think will result in a lot of positive alternatives to insular corporate planning.

    It's also a great alternative to the centralized planned culture of nations like France, so intent on protecting an elusive cultural ideal, they approach stagnation at times.

    It's a great third way - a way with its own problems, but much to add compared to the extremes of strict corporate planning and liberal cultural protectionism.

    Ryan Fenton

  6. Re:whats the return? by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 5, Informative

    Who said "invest"?

    From the Kickstarter FAQ: "A new form of commerce and patronage. This is not about investment or lending. Project creators keep 100% ownership and control over their work. Instead, they offer products and experiences that are unique to each project."

  7. No by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Kikstarter lets people who already have a name get funding for their pet project.

    1. Re:No by am+2k · · Score: 4, Informative

      Kikstarter lets people who already have a name get funding for their pet project.

      Tell that to the oh-so-well-known game developers Justin Ma and Matthew Davis (not the actor), who run the Faster Than Light Kickstarter project.

  8. Certainly a Boost for Small but Known Brands by painandgreed · · Score: 2

    Depends on what one means by "renaissance". Will Kickstarter see a large boost for unknowns making new games for the first time? Maybe, it will help get some ideas done that otherwise never would have seen the day, (see Diaspora), but I doubt it will cause a huge increase in such. What I think we will be, and are, seeing is a large influx of established games and designers creating new work that otherwise wouldn't have ever seen the light of day. With the one and a quarter of a million that The Order of the Stick Reprint Drive made, I think we are already seeing this in the table top gaming community. Now other games companies are pulling out old favorites and using Kickstarter to judge interest and essentially get pre-sales for a product. We are seeing the same thing with the Shadowrun Returns game by the original designers. I'm hearing the same sort of things from friends who are comic book fans about new and old comic book projects. For what are essentially cottage industries with fans, I think it will help a great deal as one can essentially take a lot of risk out of guessing if something will sale enough to make the money back.

    Personally, I'm beginning to really get into Kickstarter. New creative projects that I can not only look at getting, but if I really like it could even pay more for extras or even for things like getting myself added as a character in the video game. Some of the projects are small endevors that I want, but the larger demand just isn't there for. If I had to rely on brick and mortar stores or even the internet for such products to get produced, I'd probably never get them. With Kickstarter, a project can get the funding for it to fill what demand there is even if it's not enough to be sustainable for wide distribution.

  9. The ultimate pre-order by Xian97 · · Score: 2

    I see these recent wave of kickstarts as the ultimate pre-order. As a backer, I get a lower price and maybe some extras for my investment, and the knowledge that I am helping with the creation of a game that I want to play but wouldn't have got backing otherwise. As a developer, you get your funding in advance, and anything sold after the release is profit since your expenses have already been covered.

    I backed Wasteland 2. I would love to see another post apocalyptic turn based RPG, since Fallout 3 went in a completely different direction in regards to game play as it's predecessors.

    Eventually one of these projects will fail, or not live up to expectations, but I hope that is the rare exception.

  10. Given the sorry state... by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... of the modern videogame industry while I'm also pessimistic about kickstarter I'd rather throw money at people who love and care about games then just watch every game become an MMO and chained to online DRM (Starcraft 2, diablo 3).

    Kickstarter is really tapping into a lot of negative gamer sentiment, especially if you grew up in the 80's and 90's and watched PC game quality dive off cliff after the early 2000's. The last decade has been probably one of the worst decades for gamers and gamers rights on the whole. Map editors, tools to mod games? Sorry we'd rather sell you bonus weapons and extra maps as DLC at inflated prices.

    Most newer generation gamers didn't grow up playing Doom, Duke3D, Quake and many other early PC games so they have no f'n clue how bad games have become.

    1. Re:Given the sorry state... by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      "Are you serious? You're drunk on nostalgia my friend."

      Not drunk at all. I'm not saying there are not some good games being made today, but game quality (i.e. DRM, removing lan, chaining games to online, no map editors/modding, etc) are definitely objective REDUCTIONS in game quality and if you don't think so you're not very bright.

      You can also compare the features in UT99, UT2004 to Unreal 3 to see the removal and reduction of things any serious pc game should have because of sloppy ports on behalf of game developers. There are a few decent games that were actually ported correctly/developed as proper PC games as multiplatform releases but they are few and far between. Too many games are straight ports with no thought put into things like controls, dedicated servers/multiplayer.

      I'm sorry but you are just factually incorrect.

    2. Re:Given the sorry state... by relaxinparadise · · Score: 2

      I am guessing GK2 refers to Gabriel Knight 2.

  11. There's more gaming than just video gaming by N0Man74 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just want to mention that Kickstarter is also getting board games off the ground as well. I actually only first heard about Kickstarter after playing Alien Frontiers a couple months ago. It is an enjoyable and well received board game that is the result of a Kickstarter project. There are many board games in development because of Kickstarter as well.