Ask Slashdot: Open Source Tax Software?

An anonymous reader writes "I finally started looking at my taxes and instead of handing over my personal information and money to TurboTax I was wondering if there were any recommendations for freely available/open source tax software? Ideally, the data would be stored in a portable, open format. I wouldn't really need a GUI, but something that filled out PDF forms would be nice." It's a question that just won't go away. Open source solution or not, if you're a U.S. taxpayer, the deadline for filing is nearly to hand.

Comments

For this you want a professional product

[CoderExpert]

Seriously, this is the kind of product that is done with help of lawyers and accountants, because it is really complicated. Specialists rarely work for free with open source products. You really don't want some 18 year open source coder's "product" (who just filed his taxes for the first time and quickly coded up something) for this. They just don't understand all the different tax laws and practices, especially in some corner cases. And it is YOU who will be responsible when the program gets it wrong. Using open source instead of a program made by professionals with the help of accountants and tax professionals is incredibly stupid!

Re:For this you want a professional product

[alen]

no, the reason turbo tax costs money is they have teams of accountants translate new tax laws in every state into easy to fill out forms and the math functions behind them

Re:For this you want a professional product

[SJHillman]

Also, TurboTax's online tool is free if you make under $31,000 (about $14.90/hr at full time). My girlfriend did it that way - it's called Freedom Edition or something.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[Tyr07]

Actually it was a good reply and worth taking note.

Just because 'hurr hurr derpa no free software that does all my taxes for me' isn't what you were hoping for doesn't make it useless.

They were correct. This is highly specialized software for a specific purpose operated based on state/country/province etc.
It's not something I recommend trying to cheap out on without doing the work when it comes to the government.

Keep in mind, the question basically asks 'Is there a way, I can stop paying someone else to do my taxes, and do my taxes myself, without paying anyone, but not have to do my taxes myself, and have free software do it for me'

That's like me saying, 'Is there free software that does my job for me but doesn't cost me anything and I still get paid for working'
Now, it may sound sarcastic, but if that software existed, I'd definitely be using it.

To sum it up, specializing in government revenue regulations is something unlikely to find for free that does everything related to them for you.
There's open source software like, calculators available. Even free spreadsheet software. That's all tech, which makes sense to find open source.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[autocannon]

Yes, go use some free open source "stuff" to file your taxes. Hope it works, hope it's accurate. Oh, and hope they update it multiple times every god damn year to keep up to date with the ever changing tax code. But hey, it's free right. Why would anyone want to actually support software developers by "paying" for software.

Seriously, what is the obsession here with people wanting everything for free? You want to do your taxes for free, sit down with the paper form and do them. If Turbotax is too expensive for you, try TaxAct. It was $20 to efile both state and federal this year.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[Anonymous Coward]

It didn't take long for that 18 year old coder to respond.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[jeffmeden]

Actually it was a good reply and worth taking note.

Just because 'hurr hurr derpa no free software that does all my taxes for me' isn't what you were hoping for doesn't make it useless.

They were correct. This is highly specialized software for a specific purpose operated based on state/country/province etc.>

This is true but no one has yet mentioned that there IS a free (as in beer) way to do your taxes: obtain the necessary (freely available) forms, read them, understand them, and complete them. There is even phone based help if you have specific questions, as well as many books available at your local library. There, your tax forms just got filed without spending a dime! If you don't want to invest this time or don't want to take the risk of doing them incorrectly, then supposing that a free option would be satisfactory is kind of laughable. It's like (oh yes, we do love our similes) wanting seat belts in your car (oh yes, we do love our CAR similes) but not wanting to pay for them, and still wanting them to be just as safe. Surely, by now someone made something that was just as safe but was also free, right?

Re:For this you want a professional product

[TheRaven64]

Oh, and hope they update it multiple times every god damn year to keep up to date with the ever changing tax code.

I think you've identified the real problem. It's not that there is no open source tax software, it's that your tax system is so complex that it requires software to file the return.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[jeffmeden]

For complex returns, that may be correct. But there's no reason there can't be an open source product with consists of nothing more than an electronic version of the forms which allows you to type rather than print and which automatically does the math (on the forms) for you. Then it either prints or electronically submits the return. It's no different from picking up the paper forms and filling them out yourself. You're responsible for selecting the correct forms, knowing which laws apply, etc.

As amazing as this seems, the IRS (and many state and muni tax agencies) have in fact figured out how to produce a form-style PDF that can be filled in ENTIRELY electronically. The IRS does make you do the math yourself, but I am sure you can find an open source calculator to help with that, right? Many state and munis seem to do this better, with forms that run all the math for you and can be submitted electronically. And believe it or not they even make them easy to find via Google. The wonder of it all!

Re:For this you want a professional product

[sribe]

Everything you said PLUS tax software must conform to an extremely rigid release schedule, where neither dates nor functionality are negotiable at all, which is not something I've ever seen from open source.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[quixote9]

Seconding TaxAct. Cheapest and best. Does not phone home, as far as I know. It's the only reason I still have to have a virtualbox Windows taking up space on my drive.

I've been looking for a reliable, complete FOSS alternative for years. I think, as others have said, it doesn't exist because nobody (me included if I knew how!) would do that kind of tedium for free.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[alexander_686]

First, it’s not Turbo Tax which is lobbing for this stuff. They don’t have too. There is enough lobbyist pushing their special interest and crack pot positions searching for short term gain that they don’t need to spend the money – it’s done for them.

Second, It’s not that it’s technically difficult; it’s the Certification and fast turn around time.

It’s not like a word processor in which you can start off with the basic stuff and add stuff later. Nor is it static like a word processor – each year the IRS tweaks stuff. You kind of need the whole package up and running – perfectly - by February 1st.

At least they make the on-line software free for the easy, low income, returns.

That being said, I would like the IRS to come out with some basic tax forms which do the calculations and look up by itself. i.e., you would still need input the numbers, but the simple “multiple by 28%” and “Look up income in tax table” would be automated.

Or even better, tax simplification. Less work spent on make work, fewer loop holes to abuse.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[Bert64]

Well, since the government defines the taxes, in the interest of its citizens the government should also provide a no frills open source (BSD or such) implementation of the tax code... Third parties could then build better interfaces (facilities to import from other sources etc) on that, while knowing that the base code complies with all the applicable rules and submits the requires end data to the IRS.

For the government to set arbitrarily complex tax rules, and then force you to pay third party suppliers to clean up the mess it forces on you is wrong.

Everyone should have a free, government supplied and transparent way of completing their taxes.

Personally i wouldn't trust a closed source package at all, since i cannot verify what its doing.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[rssrss]

I am a lawyer. I used to do my taxes myself without purchasing a tax program. I wrote a spreadsheet to do the calculations, because doing them by hand was tedious, complicated, and error prone.

One year in the 1990s I did my taxes using my own spreadsheet. A few months later, I received a letter from the IRS explaining that I had miscalculated my taxes, that they had recalculated them, and they were enclosing a check payable to me for the $1,100 that I had overpaid.

In that moment I realized that I could no longer rely on my own efforts and understanding to complete my tax returns. If I had left $1,100 on the table, I had probably left more than the IRS would tell me about.

After that, I started to use tax programs. I use H&R Block At Home, but I am sure that Turbo Tax is also useful. At any rate they are a lot cheaper than paying too much taxes.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[jimicus]

I don't think it's so much that as the principle of the thing.

By demanding you file your tax online yet not providing a half-sane product to do this free of charge, the ability to file a tax return is itself subject to another charge that you can't easily avoid. Effectively, another tax.

We have something similar in the UK - companies are legally obliged to file their tax returns online by submitting a file in a particular format. The format itself is open and based on XML, but pretty much the only things that support it are commercial applications aimed at the accounting industry. Which means you are forced to pay an accountant even if your affairs are simple enough you could easily fill in the forms yourself.

IIRC they may also have a form online you can fill in. Haven't checked lately...

Re:For this you want a professional product

[HapSlappy_2222]

I have some investments that, due to their particular details, have stumped multiple tax preparers.

They never tell you this part of being a drug runner, do they? No, it's all "see the world" and "make people happy!". Sigh.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[Joiseybill]

BS. I have a 9-to-5, have a mortgage, play in the stock market, do contracting on the side, and do my own taxes. And I'd say I've just described more than what 90% of US taxpayers need to file. And seriously? Mind-numbingly easy. Painfully easy. Embarrassing-that-professionals-do-that-for-a-living easy. ...
Doing ones own taxes involves nothing harder than "add up all the box 2s on your W2s and box 4s on your 1099s and enter that total on line 62 of your 1040". Totally mechanical crap that doesn't require the least bit of thought or familiarity with tax law. ... ...
For the rest of us, don't try to make this sound harder than the reality. Plug and frickin' chug, baby!

@pla: +1 because you are a 1%-er. ( intended as a wake up; I can't afford the 1% moniker, maybe I'm in the top 10)
    Sure, for the /. audience, the "algorithm" of following the instructions, including branches.. plugging & chugging when we fill in variables, and making an informed decision on deductibles - is all likely within our grasp.

However, look around at the rest of the country.
Most Americans cannot balance a checkbook [1], [2].

The basic tax guide "Publication 17" is over 300 pages long. [3]
The instructions for the basic 1040 form is at 100 pages [4].

Just answering the questions "What's New?", "Do I have to file", and "Where do I file" ( [4] pages 6-7) incorporate 4 more pages of tables and worksheets referenced in the text ( pp 8-11), and suggest the taxpayer review 10 separate publications for clarifications, outside the 'core' paperwork of Pub 17 and 1040 instructions.
  point: it is complex, even to "just follow the instructions". Not everyone is the sort who just jumps in, presses ON, and only looks for manuals after it doesn't work. ( I am.. but not everyone is.)

If you are lucky enough to have a job, and a mortgage, play in the stock market, and do contracting on the side.. you are a pretty smart and fairly motivated person. You can multitask. You can prioritize tasks, and see projects through to the finish.
Only 58% of the US population is employed.. or 42% is not. [5] - BLS report " population/employment ratio" .. when it comes to the word "unemployed", the US Govt needs to take a lesson from Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means”

Never mind making educated decisions about deductions like work expenses and medical costs. I don't think the average American could fill out the typical medical insurance claim form, never mind read one and extract information for tax purposes.

How many Americans - picked "at random" - would you trust to balance your checkbook, or to fill out your tax forms?
Heck, I don't even trust a "jury of my peers" to render a sensible verdict.
Most folks I have met can't follow a 2 -page recipe in a cookbook, or remember the plot to a 200-page novel unless the movie and/or starred Heath Ledger or Megan Fox.

If every citizen was encouraged to do their own taxes, imagine how much WE taxpayers would be paying to clean that mess up?
Don't give people more credit than they deserve. Look at our last few elections.

Re:For this you want a professional product

[edremy]

Year after year, the IRS has proven in independent tests to be incompetent at understanding their own rules. Only a fool would allow the IRS to "help" them with their return.

In all fairness, they aren't the IRS' rules. They are Congress', and the IRS has the thankless task every year of trying to figure them out.

Back when I was a postdoc living in Canada I kicked a tax question about my return all the way up to the corporate HQ of H&R Block. (My mom has worked for them for ~30 years and called in some favors) The end result? They had no idea. It came down to exactly how you read one incredibly obscure clause in the thousands of pages of US tax code, and if you gave the wording to 100 people 50 of them probably would have picked one interpretation and 50 the other.

(I picked the one that zeroed out my taxes for the year. I didn't get audited.)

Re:For this you want a professional product

[dbkluck]

It is, however, Turbo Tax which is lobbying for the IRS not to publish their own web-based E-Filing software:

Steve Ryan, a lawyer for the tax-preparation industry who negotiated a deal that has the IRS promising not to set up its own Web portal for e-filing, says his argument was simple. "When the government becomes my competitor," Ryan says, "then I have every right to run an ad that says 'Big Brother is watching your keystrokes.'"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9112083 I nearly choked when I read that. "Big Brother is watching my keystrokes"?! WTF? Of course they are, that's the point. They're not just watching, they're recording every value I enter into the form, so they can keep it in a file with my name, address, and social security number on it, and then use against me in a court of law! They get the exact same information if I use TurboTax, the only difference is TurboTax gets to watch my keystrokes, too, and then charge me for the privilege.

Open Tax Solver

[rbowen]

Here's one: https://sourceforge.net/projects/opentaxsolver/

Having said that, I have found that paying a professional has always been a worthwhile investment. I have a masters degree in mathematics, so it's not a question of the calculations, but my accountant knows things about tax law that I don't, and keeps me from getting audited while getting me the best refunds that the law allows.

Re:Guessing not..

[SJHillman]

Liability always falls on the person filing the tax. Even with commercial software like TurboTax. This is why Intuit, H&R Block, etc offer liability protection and audit assistance as a selling point - to help reduce your actual liability.

Fun Fact: Even if the IRS screws up, the taxpayer is still liable.

Excel 1040

[n1ywb]

It's sort of open source, as open as an excel spreadsheet goes anyway. Works fine in OpenOffice Calc. I've been using it for years, haven't been audited yet.

http://home.mchsi.com/~taxcalculator/

Not Open Source, but at least it's free

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a CPA and I would recommend using taxact.com. While it's not open source, it is free for any income level (for federal filing) and user friendly (if you can ignore the upselling of the deluxe version along the way). Given the frequency with which the tax law changes, it's doubtful a FOSS solution will emerge in this segment.

Government should give away such software.

[couchslug]

Tax compliance is in Federal interest, and with standard Free and Open software everyone could use the same application.

IRS Site has Free Options

[mikestew]

If your main criteria is "freely available" and not "open source", and your adjusted gross income is less than $57K, you can just fill out the forms for free. It uses Adobe Flash if you have an aversion to such things, and there doesn't appear to be anything open source about it.

If your AIG is more than $57K, your tax situation is probably such that you ought to be handing over some money to a pro or Turbo Tax.

The tax code should be DEFINED that way

[alispguru]

An amazing amount of ambiguity and crap in the tax code would go away if the Government were required to publish a program in Java (probably best balance of portability, capability, and specification) and that program WAS the definition of the tax code.

This would have the nice side effect of keeping lawyers who can't think formally (in the mathematical sense) away from tax law.

My government does my taxes for me

[F69631]

Seriously, what is the obsession here with people wanting everything for free? You want to do your taxes for free, sit down with the paper form and do them.

Where I live, the process goes like this:

AT THE START OF EACH YEAR: The government send you your tax card. It tells you your tax percentage, etc. (based on assumption that you earn as much as you did the previous year). You take that to your employer, he pays the taxes directly from your wage and there is nothing more you NEED to do. If your income is very different than it was the previous year, you get taxed the wrong amount and the government sends you either returns or a bill at the end of the year. If you know your income has changed and don't want a large bill/can't give the government any money temporarily, you can fill out a simple 1 page (2 sides) form that they sent you with the card (or submit it online) and then they'll send you a recalculated tax card.

DURING THE YEAR: Most people don't need to do anything. If your income changes a lot and you don't want to pay the government any extra (which they would, of course, return at the end of the year) or don't want a large bill, you can call them, visit an office or fill out the info online and they'll send you a recalculated tax card.

AT THE END OF THE YEAR: They tell you that they want to either return some money (and ask you to inform them if your bank account number has changed) or they send you a bill. Again, you get a simple 1 page (two-sided) form (or can fill it out online) to tell them about anything that might affect the decision (such as having earned/lost a lot of money by trading stock or any similar things).

For example, I got a bit better paying job last year but was too lazy to inform them so they now sent me a letter "You've earned more than we thought you would, so you've paid 790 euros too little taxes. Here are two bills of 395 euros, you have six months to pay the first and twelve months to pay the second. Here is a form you can use to complain if we've made any incorrect decisions." I might fill out the form because I've spent quite a few euros to buying stuff that indirectly helps me earn income (books to get certifications, etc.) and that sort of stuff is tax deductible. I don't expect to reduce the bill by a lot but it's going to take just 3 minutes or so, so why not.

I've never understood why does USA have such a complex system that the government doesn't know how much they should pay taxes...