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McAfee Claims Successful Insulin Pump Attack

judgecorp writes "Intel security subsidiary McAfee has claimed a successful wireless attack on insulin pumps that diabetics rely on to control blood sugar. While previous attempts to attack insulin pumps have met with mixed success, McAfee's Barnaby Jack says he has persuaded an insulin pump to deliver 45 days worth of insulin in one go, without triggering the pump's vibrating alert safety feature. All security experts still say that surgical implants are a benefit overall."

196 comments

  1. internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some thing just don't have any business being connected to the internet.

    1. Re:internet by Sez+Zero · · Score: 1

      It isn't connected.

    2. Re:internet by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

      These are implant devices that respond to radio for diagnostic info, updates, etc. Much like a pacemaker.

    3. Re:internet by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      It isn't connected.

      But it could be (then you would patent it, I suppose.)

      While this is interesting and all and potentially could be used at a high value directed target, as a general problem it's pretty limited. There aren't many insulin pumps out there, there are several manufacturers and I would imagine the exploit is device specific.

      I'm not sure just why the manufacturer thinks the pump needs to have a wireless function though. If it needs to talk to another device, I would have used a small magnetic cable (so it doesn't get pulled out). Easy peasy as opposed to convincing a wireless device to talk to something else.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed. Lots of technology benefits from wireless access but does not have adequate security, if any.

      http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/avi_rubin_all_your_devices_can_be_hacked.html

    5. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Who needs a high-value target when you could hold any diabetic hostage for ransom? All it takes is a vulnerable wireless router with a sufficiently flexible transmitter, and the ability to scan for a nearby victim. Barring the implacable reality of device incompatibility, this is scary stuff.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    6. Re:internet by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 2

      I completely agree, if this gets in the wild what would stop some sociopathic miscreant from sitting outside of a wal-mart or whatever and randomly assassinating people using their insulin pumps. I don't think profit has to be a factor in the equation when the human animal is involved and a persons death is the end result.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    7. Re:internet by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Because wireless is cool! Being wired is just so 5 years ago.

    8. Re:internet by zlives · · Score: 1

      "Because wireless is cool! Being wired is just so 2000 late."
      FTFY

    9. Re:internet by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      It's kind of problematic if you want to hold a random arbitrary person hostage, though. First you'd have to give them diabetes. So maybe buy them a big gulp or something. And maybe an Xbox to keep them from exercising. It'd have to be a kinect-free Xbox. And a comfy chair. Then wait while they get an insulin pump installed. Seems like there are easier ways to hold people hostage...

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    10. Re:internet by lgw · · Score: 2

      All it takes is a vulnerable wireless router with a sufficiently flexible transmitter, and the ability to scan for a nearby victim.

      Or, you know, a gun. And anyone nearby for a victim.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    11. Re:internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same thing that stops people from waiting outside walmart to randomly murder people otherwise I would imagine.

    12. Re:internet by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 2

      To be clear here, the wireless in use has nothing to do with WiFi aside from being radio communication. You cannot control/hack/disable these things with a wireless router - they require very specialized equipment to produce the correct radio signal.

      Still, not great, but nothing new by a long shot.

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    13. Re:internet by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      It isn't connected.

      But it could be (then you would patent it, I suppose.)

      While this is interesting and all and potentially could be used at a high value directed target, as a general problem it's pretty limited. There aren't many insulin pumps out there, there are several manufacturers and I would imagine the exploit is device specific.

      I'm not sure just why the manufacturer thinks the pump needs to have a wireless function though. If it needs to talk to another device, I would have used a small magnetic cable (so it doesn't get pulled out). Easy peasy as opposed to convincing a wireless device to talk to something else.

      Apple has a patent on magnetically connected cables that they are pretty aggressive about protecting so that wouldn't work. On the other hand I have a deep fryer that has a similar cable that pre dates Apple's implementation by several years.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    14. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      You're thinking about the problem backward—just scan for people with diabetes and hold them hostage. If they've got one of these expensive insulin injectors and they're in the US, then they're probably filthy rich already.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    15. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      That lacks the benefits of internet anonymity as cherished by organized crime. This sort of strategy has done wonders for holding up offshore online casinos with DDoS threats.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    16. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Okay, perhaps not any old wireless router will be sufficiently reconfigurable, but there's probably [i]something[/i] common enough that's online and could be rewired to act as a scanner for these things.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    17. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      No! Not BB-style italics! The one true faux pas! My family's honour is destroyed!

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    18. Re:internet by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure just why the manufacturer thinks the pump needs to have a wireless function though. If it needs to talk to another device, I would have used a small magnetic cable (so it doesn't get pulled out). Easy peasy as opposed to convincing a wireless device to talk to something else.

      Because they're implanted devices. Presently absolutely no-one has any good idea on how to reliably expose a control interface (say, through the skin) without creating a massive risk of infection, or just injury (from mechanical trauma if it snags on something or whatnot).

      You also can't just go threading wires through a person willy-nilly like you'd need to do to create useful induction interface (not to mention the danger that you could probably talk to such a thing wirelessly anyway, with the body acting as a pretty good antenna).

    19. Re:internet by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Joke's on you. In the right mode, Slashdot would have parsed that.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    20. Re:internet by Renraku · · Score: 2

      Ahh, but this is nearly undetectable. While some people COULD come together and go all CSI and maybe find a few suspicious people, it wouldn't be 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' to see someone standing around in front of Walmart with a backpack on.

      Relative safety increases the chances some psycho is going to try to fulfill their desires. If people suddenly had a 99% chance of robbing a bank and getting away with it, there'd be a lot more bank robberies.

      --
      Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    21. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      I don't want to live on this planet any more.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    22. Re:internet by lgw · · Score: 1

      Wait, what? Are these medical devices connected to the internet? If you need to use typical wireless, the range and "visibility" won't be that different from a gun, though I guess people sometimes do call the police when they hear gunshots (though not in some neighborhoods I've lived in).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    23. Re:internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forget the hostage scenario. Think terrorism - at least that's where my mind went.

      Remotely, anonymously kill the diabetics, and watch the rest of them shit bricks. The notion of terrorism for profit is a purely American construct, for most U.S. haters, watching us panic is its own reward.

    24. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      No, no, that's not the idea. The plan is this:

      1. Find some kind of radio that (a) is online, (b) is common, (c) can be hacked into, and (d) can be tuned to interact with the medical devices. This lets you connect the medical devices to the Internet. It may very well be impossible to find such a device, or it may be as common as a cheap Chinese phone with built-in FM transmission for car dashboard integration. I dunno. Too tired to RTFA.

      2. Break into a large number of these radios and scan the area around them for potential targets: anyone with the right insulin pump will do.

      3. Figure out who they are, through proximity to the base station over a long period of time, and social network activity.

      4. Send e-mails threatening to give them a lethal dose of insulin unless they send a bunch of money.

      Like malware that demands money or destroys your computer, it's a pretty comprehensive form of blackmail. And unlike your gun proposal, it's a lot harder to trace. I agree that this offers very limited benefit to an assassin, largely because of the convenience of so many non-insulin-pump-related methods of murder, but for something like mass blackmail, where the incentive is to make money rather than kill, the potential is much more scary. Never before have people been able to threaten death on people without being physically present in some way.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    25. Re:internet by gbridge · · Score: 2

      I don't use a pump but the ones I've seen over here in the UK contain the insulin in cartridge form and attach to the patient's belt, with a delivery tube going to the belly. If I was wearing a pump and got an email demanding cash to save having a massive insulin dose delivered, what's to stop me physically removing the insulin delivery tube from my belly so the insulin can't be delivered, then using regular injections instead?

      The fact they can be hacked is bad news bears and should be corrected but I think your hostage situation is a bit imaginary.

    26. Re:internet by tirerim · · Score: 1

      Or, you know, they have health insurance. It's actually not that difficult to get insurance companies to pay for pumps: they know that pump use results in much better blood sugar control, which results in a much lower risk of (even more expensive) complications down the road. I've had three different insurance companies pay for an insulin pump at this point (they need to be replaced after about five years).

    27. Re:internet by tirerim · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure just why the manufacturer thinks the pump needs to have a wireless function though. If it needs to talk to another device, I would have used a small magnetic cable (so it doesn't get pulled out). Easy peasy as opposed to convincing a wireless device to talk to something else.

      Mostly because some people wear the pump under their clothes (means you don't have a clunky, pager-sized device sitting on your belt or in your pocket with a tube running under your shirt) and use a small wireless remote control to talk to it. The pump also uses wireless communication to talk to blood glucose meters and sensors, but that doesn't control the delivery of insulin.

    28. Re:internet by tirerim · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, they're not implanted. Implanted pumps do exist, but it's pretty clear that they're talking about run-of-the-mill Medtronic brand external insulin pumps in the article, even if they get some of the details wrong. People still like to wear those under their clothes and control them with a wireless remote control, though.

    29. Re:internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'll be confusing Javascript with Java next, along with typing LCD Display, ATM Machine, and Personnal PIN Number.

      There's no hope for you. Hand in your geek card on the way out.

    30. Re:internet by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Some thing just don't have any business being connected to the internet.

      Exactly. Who the hell thought putting wifi on a medical device was a good idea?

    31. Re:internet by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Good job American health insurance companies can be trusted to safeguard their data. Er, Whoops.

    32. Re:internet by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      My mistake.

    33. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Dammit! Nothing. Good show.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    34. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      It was a silly idea; diabetics can just take off the pump and use manual injections. It'd never really work.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    35. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      ...but yeah, there's that, too. (I think there was supposed to be a sarcastic, "and who exactly can afford American health insurance?" in there somewhere.)

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    36. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      But I have a business PIN number too!

      Oh... oh no.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    37. Re:internet by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Poor diet and lack of exercise takes years.

      Streptozotocin takes minutes.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    38. Re:internet by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      So, using CSMA/CA in the 2.4ghz spectrum magically makes it unacceptable? Would you feel better if it used multimorse on 900mhz or some other obscure protocol?

      Or would you rather they have to perform surgery every time they want to read a metric or change something?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    39. Re:internet by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Most diabetics (I've dated a few, speaking from personal experience here,) would rather not look like heroin junkies as they give themselves life-sustaining chemicals.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    40. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but it would suffice to subvert any threat on one's life.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    41. Re:internet by lgw · · Score: 1

      Sure, that's possible, but that's precisely the sort of thing security professionals rightly dismiss as a "movie plot threat". While it makes a good story, there's a lotof work, time, and risk involved for skilled people in return for a somewhat uncertain reward. These days anyhting that doesn't rise above the profit level for effort expended of "create botnet; mine bitcoins" isn't going to happen.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    42. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Yeah... another person pointed out that you can just take off your insulin pump and use needles until a less-fallible replacement can be obtained. It would be a pretty empty threat even if put into practice.

      Still, that being said, kidnappings for ransom do happen on a rampant level in e.g. Mexico. I wouldn't say "mine bitcoins" is quite the end-all be-all of criminal organisation. But your point is taken.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    43. Re:internet by bkcallahan · · Score: 1

      Sadly, heroin junkies don't mind looking like diabetics.

    44. Re:internet by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Not really. Just get a good bait & switch and the deed is done.

      It's happened to me. Very devastating part of my life.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    45. Re:internet by DedTV · · Score: 1
      It's completely useless for extortion. Disconnect the pump and the plan is foiled.

      It has potential for serial/thrill killers, terrorists or assassins though so it's still kind of scary.

    46. Re:internet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Yyyyyyeah... someone else already pointed that out. In the absence of a profit motive, though, it'll probably never be worthwhile to actually do.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  2. McAfee for insulin pumps next by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Funny

    There is always that conspiracy theory that many if not most viruses are written by anti-virus software vendors.

    After all we didn't have many viruses until these things appeared on the market.

    I'm not one to believe this sort of conspiracy theory, but McAfee isn't doing themselves any favors by publicizing this.

    1. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm not one to believe this sort of conspiracy theory

      Says 'the eric conspiracy'.

      Sometimes it is best to post as AC.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by mrnobo1024 · · Score: 1

      That could have been believable back in the DOS days, when most viruses seemed to have no real purpose besides amusement, but today the vast majority of malware is written for profit. Selling antivirus software would be counterproductive if you're making a lot more money from owning a botnet and the antivirus would eat into that.

    3. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 0

      What part of this sort did you not understand?

    4. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is always that conspiracy theory that many if not most viruses are written by anti-virus software vendors.

      After all we didn't have many viruses until these things appeared on the market.

      I'm not one to believe this sort of conspiracy theory, but McAfee isn't doing themselves any favors by publicizing this.

      Intel currently owns McAfee (http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2011/02/28/intel-completes-acquisition-of-mcafee). Intel also owns the VxWorks RTOS (http://www.windriver.com/news/press/pr.html?ID=7081). VxWorks is currently used on medical devices such as insulin pumps. This is more likely than you want to admit.

    5. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...As opposed to The Dave Conspiracy?

    6. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by ninjackn · · Score: 3, Funny

      Gives new meaning to Intel Inside.

      --
      [FUCK BETA 2.6.2014]
    7. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's a funny. Laugh.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Not really, you're just cornering both ends of the market. You make money off people buying your antivirus software, and those who don't you make money from them buy using them to run your botnet.

    9. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by matrim99 · · Score: 1

      Relax, it's all part of the conspiracy.

      --
      Right. No, your other right. No, the other other right.
    10. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eric is part of the conspiracy shh he's trying to get our names. Trustno1

    11. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Funny

      You say that now but just wait a week or two when they release mcaffe medical edition.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    12. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you seen McAfee's software? There's no way they are competent enough to pull off something like that.

    13. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      You die because your Pacemarker stopped working while waiting for VirusShield to load?

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    14. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      right...

      everyone laughs.

      until your device asks for your FB password. and if you refuse, that's the end of you. literally.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    15. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      Probably. Based on my experience with McAfee I'd rather take my chances with the viruses.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    16. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by Hillgiant · · Score: 2

      All well and good now, but wait six months and when your free trial runs out a window bursts out of your abdomen asking you to "upgrade" to professional.

      --
      -
    17. Re:McAfee for insulin pumps next by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      The virus is easier to remove, and doesn't tend to hold you to ransom as much.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  3. Murder by computer virus? by quangdog · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Usual run-of-the-mill computer viruses and exploits don't usually harm one's health in the say that this has the potential to do. I mean, seriously - a virus could infect your insulin pump and kill you??

    I know it's naïve to even ask, but would this be used in the wild? What special sort of sicko would do this for kicks?

    1. Re:Murder by computer virus? by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      What special sort of sicko would do this for kicks?

      Seriously? You have to ask?

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    2. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      What special sort of sicko would do this for kicks?

      Seriously? You have to ask?

      Not for kicks, but lulz.

    3. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know it's naïve to even ask, but would this be used in the wild? What special sort of sicko would do this for kicks?

      The Darzhavna Sigurnost (Bulgarian Secret Police) and the KGB killed Georgi Markov on a bridge in London by stabbing him in the back with an umbrella that fired a ricin filled pellet. The ability to assassinate someone by infecting their insulin pump would be a goldmine.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    4. Re:Murder by computer virus? by distilate · · Score: 2

      What special sort of sicko would do this for kicks?

      Seriously? You have to ask?

      one who would walk into a school or university and start shooting random people.

      unfortunatly these people exsist :-(

    5. Re:Murder by computer virus? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Needn't be "kicks", and could be for profit.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    6. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      The Darzhavna Sigurnost (Bulgarian Secret Police) and the KGB killed Georgi Markov on a bridge in London by stabbing him in the back with an umbrella that fired a ricin filled pellet. The ability to assassinate someone by infecting their insulin pump would be a goldmine.

      ...if your target happens to be a diabetic with an implanted insulin pump. Otherwise, it's just a pyrite mine. A poison will get you whether you happen to have an insulin pump or not.

    7. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Pentium100 · · Score: 2

      Yes, but poison requires access. You have to be close enough to put it in the target's food or drink, or inject the target with the poison. Shooting the target leaves evidence - the bullet etc. However, this is a wireless attack, with a good antenna it probably can be done from quite far away and would leave no evidence.

    8. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      I was using that as an example of how intelligence agencies love unconventional methods of eliminating targets. Now, granted, this kind of thing doesn't really happen too often, but it's always nice to have one more tool in the bag if you need it.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    9. Re:Murder by computer virus? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The family and/or leadership of 'bad' country. The boss of a 'bad' company. The boss of a 'bad' area exporting drugs/weapons without state support.
      The top science person of a "bad" research centre.. That lone wolf blogger who "was" somebody/got a real story....
      You really think all the interest in home wireless is just to watch your web cam, track your power needs and log your mail/web 2.0 use?
      http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    10. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Meeni · · Score: 1

      Or a lunatic could cough at you with the flu and kill you. Stop the paranoia.

    11. Re:Murder by computer virus? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't really be a virus.But instead a direct attack.

      Stuxnet could cause death too, with poorly designed lockouts ( for example ). Just have a robot wait a few moments after the lock is engaged then swing wildly.. trying to catch a person in the cage with it.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    12. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      It's things like this that make me wonder if maybe dick cheney's new heart, which is uncommon for a 70 year old to get, might have been in part a security issue with the device he did have (not necessarily a problem like the one described in TFA).

    13. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any three letter intelligence agency with or without oversight in any nation.

      Next question?

      And no, this isn't wild ass speculation and conspiracy theory. Assassination is a dirty little public secret in modern politics. A public secret in american ones--now called "targeted killing".

      The notion of making something look like a heart attack or equipment malfunction is well within standard operational parameters.

    14. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's things like this that make me wonder if maybe dick cheney's new heart,

      Whaddaya mean, new heart? ;-)

    15. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, seriously - a virus could infect your insulin pump and kill you??

      Nope.

      The article is talking about Insulin Pumps which use a wireless signal to communicate with a host. The host is what is used to tell the pump how much to give and how often, the McAfee guy found that there's not really any security so a customized attack could be made where you could just tell the pump to kick out all the insulin in one dose.

      Nothing has anything to do with Viruses, Trojans, or any other form of Malware, we're talking about a direct attack.

      I know it's naïve to even ask, but would this be used in the wild? What special sort of sicko would do this for kicks?

      Just for kicks? Some kind of special sicko, no doubt. But such sicko's would find plenty of ways to accomplish their goals. The worry is people using (or threatening to use) for reasons other than kicks, such as money.

    16. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, no the robot security is not handeled by that part of the software. What Stuxnet can do is run process so that the wrong recipie is used (baking the bread too long so that a fire starts) or to have the robot smash into a table breaking the robot. However the rules for machinesafety prohibits the PLC from having anything to do with teh physical security. Once you open the door to teh robot cell then no amount of virus in the PLC can make the robot move. Otherwise you're doing it wrong (and illegally in the EU).

      However there is of course a risk that somone writes a virus that can inflict a safety rated PLC and trick the checksum and multiple processors. Nothing is bulletproof, but this is unlikely to happen very often. (most safety PLCs require a full stop before any new code can be committed aswell as a password, however it's not impossible that this could be hacked around depending on how they handle the stop/auth)

      / Automation and Machine safety Programmer.

    17. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Darth+Snowshoe · · Score: 1

      The former vice president recently had a heart transplant.

    18. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The former vice president recently had a heart transplant.

      The former vice president is conservative and this is Slashdot; you're supposed to say "heart implant."

    19. Re:Murder by computer virus? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      What about the PLANE CRASH caused by WINDOWS MALWARE!

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  4. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "All security experts still say that surgical implants are a benefit overall"

    For those who aren't familiar with insulin, and can't be bothered to read the article, a dose of 45days will kill you.

    This is effectively a wireless security breach that will kill a person.

    I'm a diabetic and the risk of this happening terrifies me. I don't need the pump, so won't be going on it any time soon, hopefully this kind of crap (yes, it is crap, we know that secure networks can be designed and implemented) is ironed out and eliminated as soon as possible.

    1. Re:Wow by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So what?
      If someone throws a rock into your windshield, you die. We still drive cars.
      Hell, if someone sticks a knife into you, you die. Everyone uses knives.

      If someone wants you dead, there are a miriad ways to do it. The problem is not with those attack vectors, but with the fact, that someone is after your life.
      This is not a 'security breach', is is murder. And it takes a murderer to do it.

      This is just another case of 'same old, but now on the intertubes/with a computer!!'.

    2. Re:Wow by ChrisGoodwin · · Score: 2

      True, but most people don't come with "instant wireless death button" enabled.

      And it takes a murderer to do it.

      No, in this case it takes a script kiddie.

      --
      Pretend there is some witty statement here.
    3. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      An insulin pump reservoir holds nowhere near 45 days worth of insulin, it isn't even safe to keep insulin out at room temperature (much less worn close to your body temperature) for anywhere near that long.

      On the extremely unlikely chance that someone decided to murder you with your insulin pump, I'd suspect well over 99% of "murder victims" would survive. You can feel that much insulin going in, and you can definitely pick up it's effects on a blood glucose meter (or in the symptoms of hypoglycemia coming on, if you experience them, which even people with hypoglycemic unawareness likely would at this high a dose.)

      If at any point in time before the hour minimum for that dose of insulin to become dangerous you notice that a huge pocket of insulin was just injected in your body (or you happen to listen and hear your pump injecting that huge dose, which takes time, or you saw/felt it in the pump and tubing itself), or you test your blood glucose and realize it's going unexpectedly down, or you start to feel weird, and you just go and eat or drink something sweet, this is a very survivable overdose.

      Getting a full reservoir full of insulin at once would suck, and it's legitimate to be concerned about how well manufacturers are protecting these devices from outside attack. But this is not likely to be an effective means of killing anyone, and it's not a rational reason to fear getting an insulin pump. The effects of not having the improved glucose and a1c control an insulin pump offers (if you need insulin therapy) are extraordinarily more likely to kill you.

    4. Re:Wow by CelticWhisper · · Score: 2

      I think the fear of this comes not from the fact that it's possible, but the fact that it seems much more difficult to investigate, and thus more appealing to a would-be killer, than other forms of murder. Harder to investigate translates to less likelihood of getting caught, which in turn translates into less apprehension about committing the crime.

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    5. Re:Wow by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah but a lot of the time people don't kill other people because of the evidence trail, or just sheer inconvenience of it. If it was as easy as hitting a "run" button on your smartphone, people might not be so hesitant. The fear of being caught keeps a lot of people honest and if people didn't have that fear, how honest would people really be in today's society? I doubt that i'd have the restraint at, say, a westboro protest or a teaparty rally.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    6. Re:Wow by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      If someone sticks a knife into me, I die, but he leaves evidence, maybe someone sees him. Throwing a rock into my windshield (when I'm driving) is quite difficult. Also, the murderer needs to be stronger than me, or I could fight him off or run away.

      Shooting me with a pistol is loud and someone will most likely hear the gunshot, maybe see the killer running away with the gun or throwing the gun away. Also, a gun is quite difficult to get (in my country), I assume the murderer won't want a legal gun that can be traced back to him, but even to buy a gun legally you need to pass various checks.
      Shooting me with a sniper rifle is difficult because it is difficult to actually obtain a sniper rifle and it requires skills to shoot accurately over long distances.

      On the other hand, pointing a high gain antenna and running a pre-made script is easy and does not leave any evidence. Or just walking past me with a transmitter in pocket programmed to transmit the required codes.

    7. Re:Wow by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Try essentially impossible to investigate. How many people do you walk within twenty feet of in any given week? Any given year? Now imagine that any one of those people might have been the person who injected code that waits a predetermined period of time, does something bad, and then erases the location where the time delay is stored so that the original value cannot be recovered after the fact.... Or worse, overwrites the time delay with a value that implicates someone else.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    8. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be extra-clear, upon consuming the juice you would need to go to the hospital. I should have said that when I originally posted, but I wanted to make it clear that people can and do survive doses 200 units and well above when they get glucose in their body quickly and seek help.

    9. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Mine holds about 3 days supply and my body processes a bolus in about 2 hrs so I would have 2 hours from to notice the issue, be coherent enough to find ~1.8 kg of relatively fast-acting carbs to ingest and then get those carbs down in two hours. I have quite good hypoglycemic awareness but I'm not 100% perfect and onset rates are not always consistent.

      I think the issue is overblown but not for the reasons you mention. My pump has a hard-coded bolus limit (20 units per bolus) that I'm guessing they couldn't override wirelessly (the wireless function is purely for administering bolus doses on my pump). I would at least have chance to hear one or two bolus beeps before it got through the full reservoir. I've also turned the wireless receiver of the pump off since I don't use a compatible glucometer.

      The pump tested here is not available to the public (implantable insulin pumps are only for research at this point) so they are hacking a device that only people in trials would be using...equipment that is not fully featured and/or ready for market.

      Two answer a different question I've seen posed in other posts: Some of the currently available pump models can team up with a glucometer so that the user can administer a does wirelessly. This is handy if your pump is packed away somewhere that is hard to get to (eg. a bride wearing a wedding dress).

    10. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Room temperature insulin is good for 28-30 days (source: Wisconsin department of Health Services).

      The unit in question had a 300 unit reservior. Even assuming an abnormally low usage of 10 units per day that is only 30 days, and 25 or more units is very common. The 45 days number is pure garbage.

    11. Re:Wow by lgw · · Score: 1

      True, but most people don't come with "instant wireless death button" enabled.

      Pretty sure a bullet counts as wireless, unless someone's mugging you with a TOW missile. Not to say this shouldn't be secure on general principles, but the limiting factor on killing someone will always be the will to do so.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    12. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The pump mentioned here has a 300 unit cartridge, which leads me to believe that it is being erroneously referred to as an "implant" as external insulin pumps often are, and is not the extraordinarily uncommon implantable insulin pump.

      Also, as I clarified in a followup comment, that person should consume glucose and seek medical care. I didn't mean they should lounge around at home with some orange juice and should have been more clear.

      That's assuming, as you said, the limitations of how much your pump can bolus at a time are over-ridden and you actually got 200 units without noticing, not got 20 or 40 in and went "hey, something's really wrong" and disconnected it.

    13. Re:Wow by jersey_emt · · Score: 1

      In almost every country on the planet, it is significantly easier to (legally) obtain a bolt-action rifle than a handgun. There is nothing particularly special about a "sniper rifle" -- it is typically just a standard bolt-action rifle with a scope.

      --
      My spoon is too big.
    14. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are actually studies about this, and the picture they present ain't pretty.

      You can safely assume at least 40% are not honest and are kept at bay only by the fear of getting caught. I am unsure how many would be killers, but there would be enough of them to be a real problem.

    15. Re:Wow by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      A special "sniper rifle" would most likely be designed to be accurate over longer distances than a regular bolt action rifle. While it may be a bit easier to get a permit for a bolt action rifle, but then it would still be difficult to conceal it to get to the rooftop or wherever and to hit anything with it over a long distance, so it means that the killer would need to really want me dead to buy the rile, practice with it etc, compared to just downloading a couple of scripts to run on a Linux live CD.

    16. Re:Wow by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      It's also worth noting that people throwing rocks off overpasses at cars has in fact killed a number of people, was done by 13 year olds (in at least one instance I recall) and has more or less led to all of them being enclosed in steel mesh to prevent anything much larger then a pebble being dropped/thrown off them.

    17. Re:Wow by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it has, but I meant that it was difficult to hit the particular car with the target in it as opposed to just throwing rocks or bricks and hitting somebody.

      In my country overpasses are not enclosed in a mesh, kids probably have better things to do than throw rocks at cars.

    18. Re:Wow by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I sort-of agree with you. One problem is the reduced evidence though. At this time, a murder would possibly not even be recognized as such. However, after a transitional period, forensics will get better and these devices will get secured with cryptography. The statement in the BBC article about not enough energy is nonsense. For example, you could interact while providing energy via a coil placed close to the device. And crypto done right does not require that much energy anyways. It is just a competence problem. I expect makers of these devices do not have actual experts on the use of cryptography on staff.

      --
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    19. Re:Wow by jaymemaurice · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing they couldn't override wirelessly (the wireless function is designed for administering bolus doses on my pump).

      I would at least have chance to hear one or two bolus beeps before it got through the full reservoir. provided it is operating as it is designed and being used as intended

      I mean, I don't think any hardware or software is designed to guard against all the misuses they have not thought about... but if the pump is connected the same electronics as the wireless and controlled by a common software stack... it could probably be redesigned... but if I were you I'd be more worried about someone redesigning your brakes.

      --
      120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
  5. Next up by Hentes · · Score: 3, Funny

    McAfee releases an antivirus product for insulin pumps.

    1. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Insulin pump performance degraded, people die from not getting injections.

    2. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or McAfee hacks into defibrilators and forces hospitals to spend lot of money to upgrade them. Way to go, attacking to medical systems can therefore indirecty kill somebody, who will not get the treatment due to lack of resources.

  6. wow, McAfee has fallen to new lows! by Nyder · · Score: 0

    So,not only being one of the most crappiest AV Vendors around, they now are branching out to making viruses?

    I never trusted you before and I sure as fuck do NOT trust you now.

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:wow, McAfee has fallen to new lows! by Zorque · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've really never heard of security companies coming up with exploits first so they know how to solve them in case somebody else has the same idea?

    2. Re:wow, McAfee has fallen to new lows! by mrnobo1024 · · Score: 1

      Finding a security vulnerability is not "making viruses". Would you prefer that this be first discovered by someone who's not so nice as to disclose their findings, so that insulin pumps just start mysteriously "malfunctioning" and killing patients?

      Regardless of what you may think of the quality of McAfee's software, they're not being anything besides white-hat here.

    3. Re:wow, McAfee has fallen to new lows! by ChrisGoodwin · · Score: 1

      It's called proof of concept.

      --
      Pretend there is some witty statement here.
    4. Re:wow, McAfee has fallen to new lows! by mutherhacker · · Score: 0

      You've never heard of a company doing something evil to boost sales?

    5. Re:wow, McAfee has fallen to new lows! by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      A competitor could use this to make the other companies products seem deadly.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  7. Ethics of publicizing this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's one thing to publicize an exploit of Firefox or IE that could cause the user's PC to become enlisted in a botnet, but another to show how a twisted mind could kill someone in a most painful fashion and avoid detection while doing so.

    1. Re:Ethics of publicizing this? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Apparently its not that painful. With extremely low blood sugar you get colds sweats followed by a coma, then death.

  8. Easier than that. by PRMan · · Score: 1

    I can also just stab the old lady with a kitchen knife. But either way I'm probably going to jail for the rest of my life, which keeps me from doing it.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    1. Re:Easier than that. by jxander · · Score: 0

      Knives can be fought back against, and if you do stab someone, there's fingerprints and other ways to figure out whodunnit.

      If something like this becomes viable in the wild, there's virtually no way to fight back (aside from not being diabetic or not having a pump) and no way to trace it back to the source. Especially if said source is smart: pre-paid no-contract phone bought with cash and rigged up to send the "virus."

      On the flip side, this would have to be a very specifically targeted attack. A very low percentage of the American populace is running around with an insulin pump, and even fewer still advertise it. One of the guys I work with has one, and at a glance it just looks like a pager/cell phone/other electronic device on his hip. This vulnerability isn't something that can just be easily exploited for the lulz

      --
      This signature is false.
    2. Re:Easier than that. by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 1

      Or, you know... conscience.

    3. Re:Easier than that. by Score+Whore · · Score: 1

      ...there's virtually no way to fight back...

      Eating a twinkie is too hard?

    4. Re:Easier than that. by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      Receiving more than a months worth of insulin at once is going to take much more than a twinkie. Also the attack disables the vibration that indicates to the patient that he/she is receiving a dose.

    5. Re:Easier than that. by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      +1... fear of jail time isn't the only reason not to do something you know to be wrong/immoral.

    6. Re:Easier than that. by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      It depends on whether you have to adapt the "virus" to the specific device or not. If not (or you can write a script to do that for you automatically), then someone may just walk with a transmitter programmed to send the virus in a busy street or some concert and see how many people die. After all, there are serial killers who do it for the fun of killing, not the money or something else.

    7. Re:Easier than that. by sjames · · Score: 1

      That's just the thing though, with this exploit, you could kill that old lady at a distance in a way that looks like an equipment malfunction and leaves no evidence that you were ever there. It's a much smaller pool of potential victims and a smaller pool of potential perpetrators, but a much lower risk crime.

      All in all, I think people with an insulin pump would rather not have the vulnerability.

    8. Re:Easier than that. by Score+Whore · · Score: 1

      It's been pointed out that insulin pumps don't hold a month's supply of insulin, so no need to worry about that particular hobgoblin. You are aware that you can tell when your blood sugar is plummeting? It's not like you're walking along all hunky-dory and suddenly you drop dead because half an hour ago you dot an over dose of insulin.

    9. Re:Easier than that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...there's virtually no way to fight back...

      Eating a twinkie is too hard?

      Okay, I'll bite...
      40 units of fast acting insulin dumped into the system all at once = blackout inside of 5 minutes. Ever tried eating a twinkie while you were unconscious?
      Now, if you happened to glance at your insulin pump as the attack occurred you might attempt to counteract it, but lets do some hypothetical math. In my case, I balance one unit of fast acting insulin to 15 units of carbohydrate. For the proposed attack, I would need 600 carbs, or roughly 23 twinkies. 24 Classic Cokes would be a bit easier to swallow and hit the bloodstream a little faster, but who carries around a backpack of twinkies or 2 cases of Coke?

      captcha: contempt

  9. The Matrix by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    The Matrix giveth, and the Matrix taketh away.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  10. All security experts.. by laurent420 · · Score: 1

    "All security experts still say that surgical implants are a benefit overall." I'm impressed they managed to ask *all* the security experts of the world for their opinion.

    1. Re:All security experts.. by edelbrp · · Score: 1

      And for a medical opinion, at that! ;')

    2. Re:All security experts.. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Well, they could ask four out of five doctors.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:All security experts.. by sconeu · · Score: 1

      I always wondered why that fifth dentist didn't like sugarless gum...

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:All security experts.. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      He's an oncologist.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    5. Re:All security experts.. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Shit. You said Dentist, not Doctor.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  11. Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    An insulin pump is NOT implanted inside the user's body, and it is NOT a medical implant. A small, disposable cannula attached to the pump via plastic tubing is inserted by the user under the skin just a few mm, and is exchanged by the user every few days. There is no permanently inserted component to an insulin pump.

    Also, pump's cartridges to hold insulin typically range from 200-300 units. Contrary to the article's claims, this is not 45 days worth! Someone who is not insulin resistant using a 200 unit model would get 6, 7 days out of it tops. People who use the bigger ones because they are very insulin resistant might use 300 units in just a couple of days.

    The BBC article also states "Mr Jack said diabetics typically needed a dose of 5-10 units of insulin after a heavy meal to help regulate blood sugar. Making the device empty its cartridge into a host's bloodstream would cause "deep trouble"."

    This is very flawed as well. Typically, insulin is taken before a meal whenever possible, and how "heavy" the meal is, is irrelevant. What matters is the user's insulin to carb ratio (how much insulin they need to properly use a gram of carbs) and how many carbs the item they eat contains. Some people require a very large amount of insulin for very small amounts of carbs, some people require barely any insulin for a large amount. Also, when a person relies on an insulin pump, they're not just adding insulin to their body during mealtimes, the vast majority will be using it to deliver a "basal" dose of insulin, or a small amount of insulin 24/7 to stay alive (as this is a function normal non-diabetic bodies perform.) They also use it to deliver corrections, or small doses of insulin in response to blood glucose levels that are higher than expected after meals or throughout the day. A pump is not just a device you use after a "heavy meal."

    While it is true that an insulin cartridge unwillingly emptied into a patient poses significant danger, even without an alarm, I suspect 99% of people would be able to quickly notice such a large dose of insulin being delivered. You can see and feel insulin being delivered that rapidly. And if they happened to miss it, that's what frequent monitoring of blood glucose (which is required for all insulin pump users) is for. Sure, taking 200-300 units more than you should have would be a world of suck, but if you had access to food to eat or a sweet drink or glucose tablets, it's very likely an experienced diabetic would survive that sort of incident... to say nothing of if the cartridge wasn't full. But that's all assuming we're taking someone who has clearly made several mistakes in their reasoning for their word when they say they can access these devices.

    If more security were implemented in an insulin pump, there would certainly be no "frequent surgeries to replace the batteries," as the battery is (like the entire pump) stored in an external pump. It would involve the manufacturer mailing you a replacement and you switching it out.

    1. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reference to batteries was when talking about Heart Defibrillators. Following your logic, given your glaring mistake perhaps we should ignore the rest of your comments.

    2. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fair enough, I misread. The rest of my comments stand.

    3. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Guy+Harris · · Score: 5, Informative

      An insulin pump is NOT implanted inside the user's body

      Except when it is, although you might have to live in Europe to get it.

      Also, pump's cartridges to hold insulin typically range from 200-300 units. Contrary to the article's claims, this is not 45 days worth!

      In an implanted pump, it probably would be a larger supply.

      The BBC article also states "Mr Jack said diabetics typically needed a dose of 5-10 units of insulin after a heavy meal to help regulate blood sugar. Making the device empty its cartridge into a host's bloodstream would cause "deep trouble"."

      This is very flawed as well. Typically, insulin is taken before a meal whenever possible, and how "heavy" the meal is, is irrelevant. What matters is the user's insulin to carb ratio (how much insulin they need to properly use a gram of carbs) and how many carbs the item they eat contains.

      I suspect by "heavy meal" he meant "carb-heavy meal". It might have been clearer had he said "carb-heavy meal", so nobody thought that chowing down, say, a 16-ounce filet would require a large bolus. And, yes, your mileage may vary depending on the insulin/carbs ratio. I'm not sure either of those are severely bad oversimplifications, though.

      Also, when a person relies on an insulin pump, they're not just adding insulin to their body during mealtimes, the vast majority will be using it to deliver a "basal" dose of insulin, or a small amount of insulin 24/7 to stay alive (as this is a function normal non-diabetic bodies perform.) They also use it to deliver corrections, or small doses of insulin in response to blood glucose levels that are higher than expected after meals or throughout the day. A pump is not just a device you use after a "heavy meal."

      Again, a simplification, but I'm not sure it's a severe oversimplification in an article written for a general audience; it doesn't invalidate the point of the article.

      While it is true that an insulin cartridge unwillingly emptied into a patient poses significant danger, even without an alarm, I suspect 99% of people would be able to quickly notice such a large dose of insulin being delivered. You can see and feel insulin being delivered that rapidly. And if they happened to miss it, that's what frequent monitoring of blood glucose (which is required for all insulin pump users) is for. Sure, taking 200-300 units more than you should have would be a world of suck, but if you had access to food to eat or a sweet drink or glucose tablets, it's very likely an experienced diabetic would survive that sort of incident... to say nothing of if the cartridge wasn't full.

      Well, for an implanted pump, it could be a lot more than 300 units; how fast it takes action is another matter, so maybe spending a while with your local store's entire supply of orange juice might be sufficient.

      If more security were implemented in an insulin pump, there would certainly be no "frequent surgeries to replace the batteries," as the battery is (like the entire pump) stored in an external pump.

      Again, not for an implanted pump.

    4. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That type of pump seems to be extraordinarily rare. The article says the author attacked a pump with a 300 unit reservoir, which is an external pump, the kind employed by everyone but those few patients.

    5. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seriously doubt that ANY diabetic could push enough glucose into their body after a 200-300 unit Bolus, unless they were already on an IV or had a port they could push IV glucose into.

      When the blood glucose drops too fast or too low, you have a seizure. This is the body's way of quickly extracting glucose from your muscles. You dump a bunch of adrenaline into the blood stream too. Your brain also reboots during a seizure, so you are incapacitated for a solid 30-60 minutes, and that is IF you have help immediately nearby.

      The bottom line is that a 200-300 unit bolus is very likely to either a) kill you b) leave you severly incapacitated c) in a clinical setting, survive

    6. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An insulin pump is NOT implanted inside the user's body, and it is NOT a medical implant. A small, disposable cannula attached to the pump via plastic tubing is inserted by the user under the skin just a few mm, and is exchanged by the user every few days. There is no permanently inserted component to an insulin pump.

      Also, pump's cartridges to hold insulin typically range from 200-300 units. Contrary to the article's claims, this is not 45 days worth! Someone who is not insulin resistant using a 200 unit model would get 6, 7 days out of it tops. People who use the bigger ones because they are very insulin resistant might use 300 units in just a couple of days.

      The BBC article also states "Mr Jack said diabetics typically needed a dose of 5-10 units of insulin after a heavy meal to help regulate blood sugar. Making the device empty its cartridge into a host's bloodstream would cause "deep trouble"."

      This is very flawed as well. Typically, insulin is taken before a meal whenever possible, and how "heavy" the meal is, is irrelevant. What matters is the user's insulin to carb ratio (how much insulin they need to properly use a gram of carbs) and how many carbs the item they eat contains. Some people require a very large amount of insulin for very small amounts of carbs, some people require barely any insulin for a large amount. Also, when a person relies on an insulin pump, they're not just adding insulin to their body during mealtimes, the vast majority will be using it to deliver a "basal" dose of insulin, or a small amount of insulin 24/7 to stay alive (as this is a function normal non-diabetic bodies perform.) They also use it to deliver corrections, or small doses of insulin in response to blood glucose levels that are higher than expected after meals or throughout the day. A pump is not just a device you use after a "heavy meal."

      While it is true that an insulin cartridge unwillingly emptied into a patient poses significant danger, even without an alarm, I suspect 99% of people would be able to quickly notice such a large dose of insulin being delivered. You can see and feel insulin being delivered that rapidly. And if they happened to miss it, that's what frequent monitoring of blood glucose (which is required for all insulin pump users) is for. Sure, taking 200-300 units more than you should have would be a world of suck, but if you had access to food to eat or a sweet drink or glucose tablets, it's very likely an experienced diabetic would survive that sort of incident... to say nothing of if the cartridge wasn't full. But that's all assuming we're taking someone who has clearly made several mistakes in their reasoning for their word when they say they can access these devices.

      If more security were implemented in an insulin pump, there would certainly be no "frequent surgeries to replace the batteries," as the battery is (like the entire pump) stored in an external pump. It would involve the manufacturer mailing you a replacement and you switching it out.

      You are mistaken, I am a diabetic and even a moderate dose in insulin would trigger a hypoglycemic attack which would be fatal in 30 minutes. if an entire cartridge was emptied into my body, or even half a cartridge, I would doubt that I could ingest enough sugar to counteract the effects of the insulin and would most definitely enter a coma rapidly. With half a cartridge injected I doubt I would even survive even with rapid hospital treatment. Blood monitoring would be of no use and considering the pump is under clothing, even if I did notice it immediately I would struggle to disconnect it from my body before the fatal dose was delivered.

    7. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by DramaGeek · · Score: 1

      Insulin only lasts a week or so unrefrigerated, and that's at room temperature. I'd imagine it would be significantly less when warmed to internal body temp. Either way, nowhere near 45 days.
      Also (because of the point above), the only reason to carry more insulin would be due to insulin resistance in the user. Meaning that the so-called "deadly" dose would have even less effect.

    8. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not going to have a seizure after ten minutes. It takes time for an injected dose of insulin to tank your glucose, during which you'd have enough time to get sweet stuff and seek medical care. Or the person could notice their insulin pump giving them a huge unscheduled bolus, and disconnect it, preventing themselves from receiving the full dose.

      Many people have survived many insulin overdoses way larger than 200-300 units. Especially since it can form a "pocket" that doesn't absorb quickly or properly, many/most people should be able to survive that kind of overdose, even if the cartridge is full AND the entire dose is dispensed without them noticing.

      Lets say someone needs 1600 grams of carbs to cover a 200 unit accidental bolus. If you chugged a bottle of orange juice or soda on your to the hospital, there isn't a likely situation where that kind of overdose would kill you, especially if you had glucagon with you as a backup plan. To say nothing of people who are super insulin resistant and might barely feel a dent in their glucose levels with a 200 unit bolus, as they're already taking big doses daily.

      Yes, it's dangerous to take that kind of dose and nobody should be going around fucking with people's insulin pumps. But at some point the user themselves would need to fail to take basic care of themselves for this to become fatal. Most diabetics will accidentally give themselves big overdoses at least once or twice, and most of them survive just fine because they react appropriately once they realize what's happened.

    9. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by slash.dt · · Score: 1
      yes there is such a beast as an implanted pump, but in practice, the things are very, very rare and you are unlikely to meet any diabetic who is even aware that the device exists, let along find someone who has one.

      The version that is out there is 20 years old and is basically being maintained, there isn't new models coming out all the time. Common approaches to security 20 years ago is not the same as we would view them now.

      Yes, it is something that should be addressed in future models (if they ever appear) but the GP points about pumps are much more relevant when there are thousands more external pumps than there are implantable ones.

    10. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Kid+Zero · · Score: 1

      I suspect by "heavy meal" he meant "carb-heavy meal". It might have been clearer had he said "carb-heavy meal", so nobody thought that chowing down, say, a 16-ounce filet would require a large bolus. And, yes, your mileage may vary depending on the insulin/carbs ratio. I'm not sure either of those are severely bad oversimplifications, though.

      A 16oz Filet Mignon has zero carbs. 1/8 of a chocolate cake (with icing) would be 35 carbs. Think Carb = Sugar, and you're right.

    11. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      I suspect by "heavy meal" he meant "carb-heavy meal". It might have been clearer had he said "carb-heavy meal", so nobody thought that chowing down, say, a 16-ounce filet would require a large bolus. And, yes, your mileage may vary depending on the insulin/carbs ratio. I'm not sure either of those are severely bad oversimplifications, though.

      A 16oz Filet Mignon has zero carbs.

      ...which is why I mentioned it - it's arguably a heavy meal, but no bolus would be needed.

      1/8 of a chocolate cake (with icing) would be 35 carbs. Think Carb = Sugar, and you're right.

      As long as "Sugar" doesn't mean only "actual sucrose or glucose or fructose or... in the dish"; a nice big plate of rice would not have much of those simple sugars, but it'd have a pile-o-carbohydrates (about 51 g/cup of cooked white rice, and 45 g/cup of cooked brown rice, if I remember correctly).

    12. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Berfert · · Score: 0

      While most of your comment is fairly accurate, the following is somewhat less so:

      Sure, taking 200-300 units more than you should have would be a world of suck, but if you had access to food to eat or a sweet drink or glucose tablets

      I've been a diabetic for ~25 years and currently take 8-20 units of short acting insulin with a meal (depending on what I eat), plus 50 units once/day of a 24 hour insulin that's taken separately. I once accidentally took 50 units of the short acting insulin and it was quite an adventure. While it's possible I could have handled it with orange juice and lots of testing, I decided it was worth a trip to the hospital for 4 hours waiting for the insulin to finish it's time in my system.

      Taking 300 units of the short acting insulin (which kicks in in 10-20 minutes) would almost certainly be a life threatening situation, worthy of a quick trip to the hospital, plus drinking a lot of OJ to hold me over until I got there. While it's certainly survivable, there is also certainly a fair chance of death. Access to a sweet drink is not nearly enough to deal with that much of an overdose (at least, for me)

      Caveat: The short acting insulin I take is one of the most powerful insulins (requiring a much lower dosage and acting significantly faster than most).

    13. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Bitsy+Boffin · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you live on the equator.

      At least modern insulin is far more stable than that, I run through a solostar in about 2 weeks, it certainly doesn't get int he fridge, neither do my Humalog carts, I use one of those in 10 days.

      Next you'll be telling me that I should change the needle more than once a cartridge, or my lancing device needle more than once a... ever.

      --
      NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
    14. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Bitsy+Boffin · · Score: 1

      I am around 1 unit to 4 gram insulin:carb ratio, so, 300 unit bolus is circa 1200 grams of carb, 1.2 kg (2.64 lbs) of (somewhat rapidly absorbed depending how quick you got onto it) carbs.

      Probably unpleasant but not impossible, if your life depended on it. What does a typical bottle of coke contain? It wouldn't have to be instant if you caught it early enough, spread over an hour wouldn't be so bad.

      --
      NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
    15. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by DramaGeek · · Score: 1

      It seems like they put something extra in the pen cartridges that they don't have in the vials. I remember using the same pen cartridges for closer to a month before they ran out, rather than went bad. But I'll notice that the humalog that I load into my pump start to lose its effectiveness closer to a week. Its also slightly above room temp sitting in my pocket.

      You're supposed to change lancets?

    16. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Hypoglycemic unawareness" is a big, big problem for older diabetics on insulin. It's gotten worse since "human" insulins became common, and is aggravated by the fast-acting insulins in common use today. A careless error can slap you down *very* quickly, and if administred just before a long drive or operating machinery, could cause very dangerous problems even for a diabetic who'd notice the hypoglycemia. Emptying out half of even an external insulin pump can easily dump a full day's dose of fast acting insulin into your body in one dose.

      A mistake of as little as 3 units of insulin can cause me to get very confused. Dumping half of my pump's supply, 90 units, into my bloodstream might not kill me, but it would certainly knock me out for an extended period and my brain would have to scrape by on whatever glycogen my liver can keep converting to glucose, and whateve rmy digestion can do to keep insulin in my bloodstream. It's not necessarily fata: I know of a suicidal girl who took 200 units of "regular" insulin, decades ago, and survived comfortably.

    17. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Of course you can just, 'um', check wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_pump. So not all insulin pumps are wireless just some, some are even bluetooth. Simplest wireless security that doesn't need any money going to macaffee, an on/off switch for the wireless controller and just to make sure a red warning led when wireless is active . As for security some units have a backup controller which checks the main controller for accurate function many times a day.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I suspect 99% of people would be able to quickly notice such a large dose of insulin being delivered

      Humalog has an on onset of several mins; fast enough to kill 99% of us before we notice the overdose.

    19. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by JakartaDean · · Score: 1

      I live at 6 degrees south, not many are closer to the equator. I've never had insulin (Humalog lispro and Humulin NPH, both 3ml penfills) lose effectiveness.

      --
      The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
    20. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by tirerim · · Score: 1

      Even from the (rather poor) description in the article, it's clear that they're describing a standard Medtronic brand external insulin pump. (There are other brands, but Medtronic is by far the biggest.) 300 units is the standard reservoir size for those; that's about a 4.5 day supply for me, a typical Type 1 diabetic, so I'm guessing that they simply misplaced a decimal point.

      As for surviving a 300-unit overdose... well, for me, that would require about 3,600 grams of carbohydrate to make up for it. Which is to say 3.6 kilograms of pure sugar. I don't think I even have that much in the house, and it might be pretty hard to consume it all in about 3 hours even if I did. So my only chance would be to get to a hospital and get enough glucagon (the antagonist hormone to insulin) to counteract it. That's assuming I even noticed in time: yes, I could feel it if the insulin were delivered all within a few minutes, but there's no reason why they couldn't just deliver it at the normal rate, which would take about an hour, and would not feel like anything unusual. By the time it finished my blood sugar would already be going low, but honestly that happens pretty regularly, and my first instinct is not to check to see if my pump has mysteriously delivered its entire reservoir at once, it's to eat 15 grams of sugar and see if it gets better after 15 minutes.

    21. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by tirerim · · Score: 1

      A 2 liter bottle of Coke only has 225 grams in it, so you'd need about 5 of those. You seem to have a really high insulin:carb ratio, though; mine is 1:12, and I believe that 1:15 is typical. So I'd need about 16 bottles of Coke; I'm pretty sure at that rate of consumption, water poisoning would become an issue, so it would be better to stick to solid sugar. I think I'd just try to get to a hospital and get them to give me their entire supply of glucagon.

    22. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The standard carb-to-insulin conversion is 1u per 15g of carbs.

      200*15=3000g of carbs

      I don't care who you are, you are not going to be able to consume 3KG of raw glucose in any form. You will be hospitalized, and you may die. You will also lose a huge chunk of flesh and adipose tissue because they'll have to cut it out in the hospital to keep you from dying.

      200 units of insulin is not to be fucked with. One can commit suicide on a tenth of that.

    23. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent, adding the note that all insulin used in pumps that I'm aware of (novo log, etc) are highly effective within half an hour, and completely effective after 2-4.

    24. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humans can absorb ca 1 liter of water per hour, but perspire five times as much. A serious concern for marathon runners.

      Nope, drinking coke would not do. Seek out medical care immediately.

    25. Re:Glaring errors in the techweek article. by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      You could travel to Europe and get it implanted.

      The FDA isn't yet to the point (I hope) where they'd rip it out of you or have you sentenced to years in prison for having an unapproved device implanted overseas.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  12. I don't get this at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't imagine that this can be done very easily (at least with the insulin pump I have). The only wireless communications that it has is directly with a blood glucose meter to get readings from it... thats it. I also haven't seen any insulin pumps that use any standard wireless communication (it looks to be proprietary RF).

    I still feel safer with this exploit running around than McAfee getting their software onto these devices...

  13. Re:Last year by InvisiBill · · Score: 2
    Not next, previously. FTFA:

    McAfee has previously announced products to secure embedded devices, which could include implants.

  14. Espionage/Assassination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With an aging population it seems terribly interesting that it could be possible to go after people wirelessly.
    Doctor:"The deceased appears to have had a malfunctioned insulin pump, your honor."
    Lawsuits out the yinyang, headlines, millions go to lawyers, but it was just a lone FBI agent who needed someone out of the way, or a smart outsider who wanted Dick Cheney to finally bite the bucket :)

    Sleep tight, politicos of the world >:)

    1. Re:Espionage/Assassination by zrq · · Score: 1

      With an aging population it seems terribly interesting that it could be possible to go after people wirelessly.

      This is the important part, not now, but in the future. This is just a demonstration of what is possible, and how the mistakes that are being made now may effect all of us in the future.

      From a recent talk by Cory Doctorow, http://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html

      As a member of the Walkman generation, I have made peace with the fact that I will require a hearing aid long before I die. It won't be a hearing aid, though; it will really be a computer. So when I get into a car—a computer that I put my body into—with my hearing aid—a computer I put inside my body—I want to know that these technologies are not designed to keep secrets from me, or to prevent me from terminating processes on them that work against my interests.

      We need to change the way that the industry and the regulators think about these kind of devices. Security by obscurity is just not good enough.

      As patients (now and in the future) we should require/demand that all of the software in these devices is open source or they won't get certified for use as implants.
      Many people on this site have said something along the lines of "If I were designing these devices then I would use [xyz] to make them secure".
      The important point is that geeks like us aren't designing these devices, and for the companies that are designing these devices security isn't a priority.

      Good security is expensive, both in terms of employing extra staff with the relevant expertise, and in terms of developer time to implement and test it. Unless peer reviewed security is required by their customers or government regulations, then it is just not enough of a priority to justify the additional cost.

      The worst result from this kind of research would be that our politicos jump at a sound bite solution and make it illegal to own or design a device that could intefere with implanted medical devices. Preventing the good guys from testing their own devices, while making it easier for the bad guys by allowing manufacturers to get away with poor security.

      The best result from this kind of research would be that we make peer reviewed security and open source code part of the requirements for certification of implanted devices. But that won't happen unless we keep pushing to make it happen.

  15. so.. by uolamer · · Score: 1

    So McAfee is trying to find ways to kill my grandmaw?

    --
    s/©//g
  16. What a shit design... by Entropius · · Score: 1

    ... it seems like if beaming a RF signal is all it takes to control the device, it's a terrible, terrible design.

    If I were designing an implantable device that I wanted to be robust to attacks like this, I'd build in a two-stage security system. The first would be a piezoelectric element connected to an oscillator tuned to a particular frequency that acts as a switch for the radio receiver; only when exposed to a strong signal at the appropriate frequency will it even start *listening* for an RF signal. The advantage of this is that sound propagates quite strongly directly through tissue; it would be very difficult to trigger the receiver by just shouting at it, but fairly easy to just strike a tuning fork of the right frequency and place its base on top of the device, relying on the very strong mechanical coupling through the skin to amplify the transmission. If you want, make the frequency 440-A -- the goal here is not security through obscurity, but to require physical contact with the patient.

    This turns on the RF receiver itself, which would then require authentication with some standard key-exchange method before agreeing to do whatever. The acoustic trigger is both there to serve as another "factor" for two-factor authentication and to guard against any sort of DoS attack by making the radio not even pay attention until some condition is met.

    1. Re:What a shit design... by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 1

      That's like saying "we should have a phone that we call to turn on the phone we want to call". If they're going to require solid contact with the patient, they might as well use some sort of contact-based communication, like ultrasound or small currents or whatnot. What if you have a jumper sticking out of your arm, and when you short it, the RF control mode is activated? (I'm only half joking)

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    2. Re:What a shit design... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I were designing an implantable device that I wanted to be robust to attacks like this, I'd build in a two-stage security system. The first would be a piezoelectric element connected to an oscillator tuned to a particular frequency that acts as a switch for the radio receiver; only when exposed to a strong signal at the appropriate frequency will it even start *listening* for an RF signal.

      Or you could have the patient hold a permanent magnet over the device, activating a reed switch or other sensor to turn on the RF system. I seem to remember that some medical devices do this but I can't be bothered to google it at the moment.

  17. With that range, terrorists no longer need bombs by American+Patent+Guy · · Score: 1

    "We can influence any pump within a 300ft [91m] range," Mr Jack told the BBC. "We can make that pump dispense its entire 300 unit reservoir of insulin and we can do that without requiring its ID number."

    So you're telling me that a bad actor could affix a computer with malicious software to a car, and drive it to the parking lot of a hospital that refills these insulin pumps, and kill lots of people?

    And how would the police detect such a thing, let alone find who was responsible? A terrorist would be long gone before law enforcement had the first clue.

    If I were the maker of one of these wireless medical devices, I'd be tempted to tell my users to wrap them in foil!

  18. actually, implantable pumps exist by Chirs · · Score: 4, Informative

    There are different kinds of pumps. The most common is the type you describe, but there are in fact implantable insulin pumps which get refilled via syringe, and this is the type described in the article:

    "The pumps hold 300 units of insulin, enough for about 45 days, and are refilled by a syringe."

    1. Re:actually, implantable pumps exist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      300 units is not a 45 day dose. 300 units is typical of an external, non-implanted pump which represents virtually all pump users. The external cartridge is refilled with a syringe.

  19. 300 feet of wireless stupidity by holophrastic · · Score: 2

    Who needs to update their heart from 300 feet away? One of the articles discusses encryption as a solution -- because the person is an idiot. My heart doesn't have any encryption. It has one very important security feature: it doesn't talk to devices 300 feet away.

    It's very easy to screw with my organs, you come up to me and you hit them. It's really easy.

    So who decided that an insulin pump needed full-range wireless connectivity? How about 3 inches. 3 inches would have been great. It's already refilled by a seringe. Ignoring, for the moment, that a seringe-like probe could have updated it without anything being wireless, a simple short-range induction or vibrational signal, or even IR -- actually, IR would have been fantastic because it would have been obscured by clothing, a security device that has resulted in every doctor everywhere asking patients to disrobe, and then leaving for another random amount of time.

    but no, let's use a technology designed for long-distance communication. We talk to space telescopes and voyager probes this way, so it clearly makes sense that implanted devices be accessed this same way -- you know, in case voyager wants to screw with us.

    1. Re:300 feet of wireless stupidity by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 1

      The Borg, Skynet, The Matrix...sure, let's connect a bunch of machines in our bodies wirelessly and hope they don't kill us.

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    2. Re:300 feet of wireless stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not easy to limit the effective communications distance of a wireless device, unless you encode it in the *timing* of the protocol itself, so that it effectively requires a reply fast enough that the signal cannot have traveled very far. Doing this so that all speakers are within 20m of each other is not easy. At 3 feet? Dream on!

      Reduced signal strength barriers can be overcome using antennas (or an DSP-backed antenna array if you *really* need to be fancy to overcome background noise). Suddenly your weak signal that should reach 3 feet can be perceived at 30+ feet through walls, and the other direction really just requires a powerful transmitter anyway.

      You want it safe? Require physical contact. Which is extremely non-trivial when you're dealing with implants.

      Or use proper crypto, damn it. One could use 8192-bit RSA to rekey 256-bit Serpent (AES is *not* approved to secure in-transit data by the NSA, they probably have damn good reasons for this) every 24h. Don't forget this requires a proper true RNG, too. But this requires power...

    3. Re:300 feet of wireless stupidity by TCFOO · · Score: 1

      There are Insulin pumps that currently use IR to transmit and receive data form other devices, like blood glucose meters, and certain cell phones;My grandfather has an Accu-check Insulin pump System where the pump and meter used IR to store their log data in a Palm Centro phone. While IR might be more secure than any other form of wireless communication for these devices, based on range as you suggest, It is not convenient to transmit the data between devices regularly, due to the fact that all devices need to be set to transmit/receive mode, which is not always straight forward, and have the IR ports lined up within an inch of each other.

    4. Re:300 feet of wireless stupidity by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      like I said, light, even visible light works. vibrations also work. and anything blocked by clothing works. or hey, here's a bright idea, uni-directional wireless ought to be as easy as a headlight. require line-of-sight, which won't be reliable when a person is moving. or a hair-antenna as a contact device. one blue hair. or go full wireless but require a vibrational authentication. make me punch myself to authenticate an update. or make me use a device with a set vibrational authentication pattern -- like any cellphone could be made to do. none of those require any additional power. certainly not a vibration sensor, and certainly not IR.

      anything but nothing.

    5. Re:300 feet of wireless stupidity by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      yeah, but we're talking here about: a) a medical device b) being updated occasionally c) as opposed to surgery d) to deal with an injury e) that can kill you

      I think that's ok.

    6. Re:300 feet of wireless stupidity by Zouden · · Score: 1

      I don't think you know how insulin pumps work. The pump is implanted, but it's controlled by the patient using a separate device. That's what the wireless link is for. Your suggestions of IR, vibration or induction wouldn't work because you'd have at least 20cm between the pump and the control unit and up to several meters (for instance when the patient is asleep or showering, leaving the control unit on a table). Wireless is the only option. It should be encrypted as tight as possible.

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
  20. 45 days of insulin? What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My pump only holds about 3 days of insulin, how did they come up with 300 units being a month and a half worth?

    Thats nuts.

  21. National security agents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CIA, Mossad, FSB, etc.

  22. Baby and bathwater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [[All security experts still say that surgical implants are a benefit overall.]]

    My house is a benefit overall. I still put a lock on the front door.

  23. HOLY SHIT! by idbeholda · · Score: 1

    IT'S MR. CREOSOTE!

  24. When they're not protecting your computer... by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

    ... they're figuring out how to kill people.

    Isn't THAT wonderful news?

    1. Re:When they're not protecting your computer... by wye43 · · Score: 1

      Visual Studio 2010 install initial start-up time:
      - without McAfee: 15 seconds
      - with McAfee running: 4 minutes
      Those are real numbers measured yesterday. I had to disable the bloody thing(6 services bloatware!) or I would spend 3 days installing Visual Studio.

      So let me fix that for you:
      When they are not killing your computer, they're figuring out how to kill people. :)

    2. Re:When they're not protecting your computer... by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      You should always turn off virus checking when installing software from a trusted source.

      You should never install software from a non-trusted source.

  25. better run, better run... by whopub · · Score: 0

    Do you mean: 'pump up kicks?!

  26. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have worn an insulin pump for over a decade. I'm switching to a new one (Medtronic Paradigm Veo) soon, and it has some wireless capability.

    This article is complete bullshit. First of all, the summary says he persuaded an insulin pump to deliver 45 days worth of insulin in one go. The article makes no mention of 45 days. A typical 300 unit cartridge (which the article does mention) lasts me under 4 days. Some people may get more time, some less, but nowhere near 45.

    But the more important aspect: the wireless component.
    The pump I will soon be using can receive data from various blood glucose meters and continuous blood glucose monitors. When it receives this value, it can fall into three categories:
    1. High (or trending). Action taken: alert user
    2. Normal. Action taken: none
    3. Low (or trending). Action taken: alert user, or possibly stop delivery (this may or may not be configurable, I'm not sure)

    There is absolutely no reason to ever allow delivery based on a wireless command. This isn't a device sitting across the room that you want to control from your couch. It's attached to you by a cable less than a meter long.

    I don't know what pump McAfee claims to have manipulated, but it's not one I've ever seen (and I've done research).

  27. Why? by tragedy · · Score: 1

    Why does this kind of security vulnerability even exist in this day and age? Considering how compact solid state data storage is these days, there's no reason I can think of whatsoever that a vulnerability like this should exist. This is the perfect use case for a one time pad. It's simple. You generate some random data and save a copy of it on three storage devices. One copy goes into the pump, another copy goes into the external wireless controller, and the last copy goes into a safe somewhere. When the wireless controller wants to send instructions to the pump, it xors them against the random data. The pump then xors what it's receiving against its copy of the data to decrypt it. If the controller ever gets lost, a new one can be programmed with the copy of the data that's in a safe somewhere. Provided the control instructions to the pump are long enough, that method makes it virtually impossible to attack the pump without getting physical access to the pump itself, the controller, or the copy of the data securely locked in a safe.

    It's like no-one even considers security. Maybe the manufacturers of these pumps take their cues about security from the credit card companies.

  28. Type I Diabetic for many over 15 years and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know those things fsck up all the time anyway. A friend of mine had his go haywire so many times resulting in severe hypoglycemic attacks on par with what the article suggestions that there is just no interest in it for me. Much like regular software such as Windows, the threats posed from the software itself result in many more mistakes and threats to things running properly than some rogue hacker. Multiple daily injections and freedom from cybernetics FTW.

  29. 99% only notice when they are awake. by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    Do not discount the threat of this process overnight. With my mom's history her real danger is at night. She has slept through the pump alerts including vibration. There are advantages to having a small dog or two on the bed.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  30. Type 1 Diabetic since 1995 by boltik · · Score: 1

    Using wireless insulin pump. I am an Electrical and Electronics Engeneer with specialization in computers and RF communication. I don't believe that anybody (McAfee employee or Al-Kaida terrorist) can possibly access my insulin pump or my Glucometer. My insulin pump can deliver 315 units of insulin in one go, without triggering any alert, if programmed or operated to do so. I use ~41 units of insulin per a day. It is 7 days, 16 hours and ~ 20 minutes of insulin. It is ~17% of 45 days. I am not worried, it is just a regular pile of FUD.

  31. Type 1 Diabetic. by boltik · · Score: 1

    BTW: 315 units of insulin is very fatal for me and most of non metabolic syndrome human. The "deep trouble" mr. Ward talking about is Cardiac Arrest. Means immediate death.

  32. At MCaffee's office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (sounds of night bugs) Security guy one: Hey..i'm bored......Security guy 2: me too (more sounds of nothingness for several minutes) then a brainfart follows,,,,,Hey let's hack a device that most people dont use and let's scare people with it......OH YEAH GOOD,,,,,,pass me that skittle bag.

  33. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  34. Dumbass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What dumbass designs a system like this with absolutely no security at all? The company should be held criminally liable for being douchebags.

  35. Waiting for ... by XrayJunkie · · Score: 1

    the first script kiddie frameworks
    For each adrPump in pumpList do ...

  36. Re:45 days of insulin? What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously the article is a cunning ploy.

    If they made an outright claim that socialist medicine has advanced technology it would be too obviously socialist propaganda lies. So those devious reds pulled a sneaky trick. The article masquerades as capitalist propaganda so that the reader assumes the technology is a given and an important enough win for the socialists that the capitalists would be making dubious security claims about it in desperation.