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Zimmerman Charged With 2nd-Degree Murder
George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin, was charged with second-degree murder. He faces up to life in prison if convicted in the shooting. From the article: "Special prosecutor Angela Corey announced the charges but would not discuss how she arrived at them or disclose other details of her investigation, saying: 'That's why we try cases in court.'
Second-degree murder is typically brought in cases when there is a fight or other confrontation that results in death and but does [not] involve a premeditated plan to kill.
Corey would not disclose Zimmerman's whereabouts for his safety but said that he will be in court within 24 hours."
Not news for nerds.
And this is news that I care about? Get back to fusion, code, tech, etc. I can read about this on CNN.
I gotta agree.. There are other places for this type of news.
How is this bullshit rated insightful?
You know what gets me? The way the Trey's mother was on the media talking about how nailing Zimmerman to the wall will help them move on.
For one, that won't bring back her son. For another, I think she's at least as responsible for Trey's death as Zimmerman was. When you have a son and he starts thinking that gangsta thug culture is GREAT, that all the rap and hip-hop about how awesome it is to be a career criminal is something more than entertainment, that's your cue to ACT LIKE A PARENT and straighten his ass out before he gets either jailed or shot in the streets. Of course, not deciding to start and raise a family in a high-crime area is a nice touch too.
What the hell kind of parent allows this to happen and doesn't teach their kids that being a gangsta thug is not as glorious as MTV makes it look? What kind of parent raises a teenager who attacks strangers? A shitty unworthy parent, that's what kind. I mean seriously. Being a thug ("THUG LIFE YO!") has only one of two possible endings: prison for a very long time, or an early grave.
The only surprise here is that it wasn't another violent teenager who shot him.
He was not a neighborhood watch volunteer. He had no affiliation with any organization, no training and this whole tragedy stemmed from his disregard for standard neighborhood watch procedure.
He was an armed vigilante.
Why don't we all calm down, let justice get served legally, and not have any more people wind up dead.
It took time to work out that he could be convicted, this is normal procedure, liek the prosecutor said "we don't prosecute by petition" and that's hwo we want it.
He stayed in touch with authorities and now they are going to prosecute with a 2nd degree murder charge, if convicted he will be in protective custody, which means 23 hours a day in a cell one hour out for the rest of his life.
That's a lot more brutal than you might imagine, and maybe a lot less than his family might want.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
There's 43 murders every day. Do you recall reading 43 stories? No. When things go normal, they are not national stories.
So anyway, since you don't seem to have figured it out, the difference in the two cases is the police response. And that is the racial issue! When the situations are reversed, a black will be charged right away. A white will not always be. (Google Brandon Gotwalt. Almost the same situation, no charge. Now google Daniel Adkins. Big difference.)
The black kids who set the white kid on fire were found right away and charged. Things are working as they should be. There are 100s of hate crimes every year, and only the most egregious situations make national news. What was egregious here was the government not applying the law evenly, and not even charging the guy. It's basically the same thing (not charging) that happened with the Danziger cops in New Orleans during Katrina: Kill a minority, no charge. Plus the cops do it all the time too -- but that's so [sadly] normal it doesn't rise to to the same volume as the Zimmerman case.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Too much politics here creeping on this site.
Preach brother.
There are a lot of angry people on both sides of the issue that's why, should give you insight into how the media effects issues and how stupid people can be.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
He wasn't doing anything wrong when he was harassed by an unknown creep, and his killer had no knowledge of his parent's child rearing skills.
Meanwhile, it was Zimmerman who was rolling around the neighborhood with a gun looking for trouble. Why don't you rant about his parents (his father was a judge, ffs) and his screwed up attitude?
Wow. Can't help but feed the troll here. Where to start? Let's see... your link to a story that 'hardly gets a column in the local news' is a link to the NY Daily Post about an event in Kansas City. A simple google search shows various other coverage of the case. And a big difference in that case: the police were *actually looking to arrest the perpetrators* (whether they've caught them or not is not clear).
The Trayvon Davis story blew up because of how it was mishandled between the police and the DA. If they had arrested Zimmerman from the start, even if he ended getting off on a self-defense claim, it wouldn't have been as big. It would be a footnote in the list of reasons why an overbroad "Stand Your Ground" law is a bad idea.
And, even if the attack in KC was mishandled similarly, what's that have to do with the Davis case? Outrage would be warranted in both cases.
But yeah, your recent photos of Trayvon (including one fake one) convince me. He flipped the bird at a web cam! And he's black! Death for the hoodlum! Wait, you know what? I need to see a photo of the suspect in a suit. If you can produce one of those, then I'll really be convinced.
I'll give you this though: you really have provided clear support for that Einstein quote in your sig.
Someone put six bullet holes, last night they shot up, a parked police car that was left near the scene of the shooting. The message being that violence against the police is coming if they don't arrest Zimmerman and charge him with murder. They shot up a cop car. As if that neighborhood didn't need a reason for a neighborhood watch now they have guys firing live rounds into police cars? That's a safe neighborhood?
It stopped being a safe neighborhood when armed vigilantes started stalking the streets, harassing people based on their suspicious blackness, and killing them when they legitimately stand their own ground against threatening behavior.
The police didn't want to nip that in the bud, so now they have an even bigger problem. I hope they get off their asses and establish sanity with a minimum of further violence.
Recent photos of Trayvon: http://i39.tinypic.com/1yvg5h.jpg
So what's your point? If somebody looks like this, he somehow deserves to get shot?
I still have a twinge (only a twinge) of hope that by putting this in the court's lap we'll get to have actual facts during discovery and a real investigation by detectives, not the media.
But at this point it's been worked into such a frenzy that so many sides have put their hand in the pot that there's almost no soup left. Each group will be approaching both defense and prosecutors with all sorts of conflicting information, promises, leads, and threats. Then you have the political pressure you brought up, where I'm sure there's a DA or ADA who wants to look good for elections and will sweep tidbits under the rug to "prove" Zimmerman guilty. Or whatever lawyer announces to do it pro-bono to get his own high horse and sweep a different set of tidbits under the rug to "prove" him innocent, all until the rug resembles a mattress. Then the hard part will be to find 12 people who can't/won't get out of jury duty and at the same time either have not heard of the case or haven't let the media frenzy tell them what to think.
Still, a twinge.
He's an asshole because he ignored the 911 operator's instructions to wait for the cops, and got out of his car with a gun to confront somebody.
(Didn't he think it out? What did he intend to do after he confronted Martin? It had to turn out bad.)
It seems harsh to send somebody to jail for a big part of his life because he's an asshole. I feel sorry for him.
But somebody is dead because he's an asshole. I feel even more sorry for Martin, and Martin's friends and family.
In America we do give people long prison sentences for killing somebody in a street fight.
A lot of black people in Florida go to jail for less.
What else can you do with Zimmerman?
Yes, you do go to jail for being stupid.
Zimmerman was well known for calling 911 to report black people as suspicious.
You can (legitimately) hate the media hype, the political opportunism, etc., but the defendant is a creep who killed someone for no good reason.
This event is exposing the BEST of this country. Most people are outraged by this event because up until a few hours ago THERE WOULD BE NO TRIAL. Now, the wheels of justice are spinning, in large part due to public attention on this case. The fact that Zimmerman wasn't arrested is where the travesty lies. He's not automatically guilty now that he's been arrested, and he's not automatically innocent because the police declined to arrest him originally. His innocence or guilt is in the hands of the court, which is where it belonged all along.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
This does not belong on Slashdot. Please take it off.
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My impression of you:
Whiny, whiny, whine. Whiny, whine, whine, blubber.
- Whiner
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
DId you forgive the man that shot your son? If so you get a pass on your comment.
If my son got shot because he started beating him and slamming his head into the pavement (a potentially lethal move) then there would be nothing to forgive. I would say the other guy acted reasonably. I would then feel ashamed to have raised a son like that and all the waste it represents.
If you are asking me whether I am committed to my principles even in the face of a great deal of emotion, yes I am. It's called being an adult.
This situation is just another young violent black thug-wannabe who finally picked the wrong guy to fuck with. That's all there is. I don't get shot at. You know why? Because I don't go around attacking people. If I think somebody is creepy or whatever I call the police, I don't walk up to the guy and start beating on him.
You guys really cannot see the connection between attacking a stranger and getting shot? Jesus H Fucking Christ people can be so stupid when they badly want a situation to be different. Nobody really wants a 17 year old to get shot and killed. I get that. But to pretend like the way that 17 year old behaved had nothing to do with it? Madness.
Course the media loves that kind of madness and how weak and stupid and blind and emotional everyone is acting. That's why they show photos of Trey when he was 12 years old, not when he was 17 and 6 foot 3 inches tall. That's why they try so badly to make this into a racial issue because immature fucks eat that shit up. Nevermind that Zimmerman tried to mentor black youth (why just the other day I saw the KKK doing that, no wait they'd never do that). The bullshit way all of this is being presented and all of you are being led around by your childish little heartstrings is so fucking pathetic. I am ashamed to be an American.
Funny how liberals pick the ethnicity that suits their argument.
Obama is from mixed race parents, but is referred to as black because he looks black.
Zimmerman doesn't look Euro white, but it is convenient to emphasize his white parent when picking sides in this story.
Of course, the whole race issue in mixed race people is a clear indictment of how poorly we communicate about race in general.
Also, I'm a flaming liberal.
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Bread and circuses. Don't discuss anything important, especially if it's complex. Go after something visceral like this case or Kim Kardishiam's bra / toenail / latest sex change operation.
Oh, we just invaded another country? Look! Over there! A breast!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I will bet my left testicle that you have never personally raised a child to adulthood. Rebelion is not a parenting mistake, it's a job discription for young adults.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
In Canada, the first thing the courts would do would call for a media black out until the judgement is rendered, and then likely another black out until sentencing. The idea is to prevent bias in the potential jury pool.
Unfortunately, due to incompetence and delays in deciding to file charges and make an arrest, they're going to have one hell of a time finding a "jury of peers" that isn't tainted by public opinion and forced to recuse themselves from participating.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
"Meant only to protect white people"? What an inflammatory and completely unsupported thing to say. Like so many other people, when you can't actually find evidence for racism, you just fabricate claims of racism.
In the case you cite, the shooter, a black male, was not arrested and was not charged for an entire year. Eventually, under public pressure, the DA did charge the shooter and he was found guilty by a jury.
I don't see how the cases are analogous either. Zimmerman claims to have been attacked by Martin from behind, while walking back to his car, and that's consistent with physical evidence. McNeil seems to have provoked a confrontation. Even if McNeil should have been found innocent, how does one injustice justify another one? Would racially based injustice against black men mean that we need to dismantle our legal system altogether, just to justify the mob?
At this point, the only way to settle this is for it to go to trial. The facts need to be laid out in court, experts need to testify, and a jury needs to decide.
I think there's a good chance that a jury will find Zimmerman "not guilty". The DA's original assessment was that there wasn't even enough evidence to win a conviction, and that's consistent with the evidence that has come out since.
His innocence or guilt is in the hands of the court, which is where it belonged all along.
Nope, it is where it belongs (in court) if the prosecutor decides to bring charges, and not before that time. It's easy to sit in your armchair and pretend to know facts that can really only come out of a thorough investigation, but there may be a time, if you ever happen to just be in the wrong place at the wrong time, that you are grateful that such things are investigated before arrests and charges are made. False charges have ruined the lives of innocent people before. The system may have flaws, but the fact that crimes (which may not be crimes) are investigated before charges are filed is not one of those flaws.
In this case--unless the prosecutor is simply bowing to pressure from the uninformed masses, which would be disgusting--the prosecutor was not convinced of George Zimmerman's story or believes his actions were not sanctioned by the current laws on the books. In that case, a trial is perfectly reasonable. If Zimmerman is found guilty by a panel of his peers, he will be punished. If not, he will walk. This is the way it should be, but only after a proper police investigation and review of the facts by the prosecutor--not the supposed "facts" you get from your nightly news anchor, but the real facts insofar as they can be determined.
This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
Confusion is the first step on the road to knowledge.
I have zero faith that any jury would deliberate for more than 15 minutes before declaring Zimmerman guilty.
Seriously? Have you not seen the vitriol spewing forth from both sides of this issue? Do you honestly think that Zimmerman's lawyers will be so completely incompetent that the prosecution will be able to completely stack the jury?
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
The 911 operator told him that he didn't "need to" follow Martin and Zimmerman said "OK" and was going to wait by his car for police. Zimmerman testified that he was returning to his car and it was Martin who confronted him and then punched him. Witnesses saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top, and Zimmerman's injuries and dirty clothing support that.
I don't know of any actual evidence that support the idea that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operator's suggestion and followed and attacked Martin. Maybe you can share what evidence you think there is?
There is no evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.
I don't know whether that's true or not, but if racism causes the justice system to be unreasonably harsh towards black people, then we need to fix that, instead of destroying our justice system for everybody.
With that fair and balanced recitation of events you won't make it into the jury pool.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
When you have a son and he starts thinking that gangsta thug culture is GREAT, that all the rap and hip-hop about how awesome it is to be a career criminal is something more than entertainment, that's your cue to ACT LIKE A PARENT and straighten his ass out before he gets either jailed or shot in the streets.
You know, "acting like a parent" isn't just some magic thing you do and instantly your kid is wearing polo shirts and khakis and has perfect grammar.
And if he was attacked by Martin first, Martin was only exerting his right to Stand His Ground, no?
The first person to (reasonably) feel threatened with death or serious violence was justified in defending himself. The person who created that (reasonable) fear can not claim self defense, any more than a convenience store robber can shoot a clerk who pulls a revolver out of the cash drawer in "self defense".
He went into hiding, probably depressed. Didn't stay in touch with his lawyers.
Then, worst mistake, he called the DA and talked to them without a lawyer present.
He's screwed.
Does it make his actions acceptable to you? Ignoring sane neighborhood watch protocols and the 911 operator and confronting someone while packing a gun?
I don't know that Zimmerman did confront Martin. The operator told him he didn't need to follow, and it's unclear what happened after that because of conflicting testimony. Considering how few real facts are known, the only reasonable response is to say that I have no idea whether Zimmerman's actions are acceptable or not. However, following someone is not usually illegal. Having a gun is not illegal. And, in Florida, shooting someone and killing them with a gun is not illegal under certain (very special) conditions which you may or may not agree with, although it is the law.
Now it seems the prosecutor has collected enough facts that she thinks she can convict Zimmerman for breaking the law. A panel of Zimmerman's peers will determine whether or not he really is guilty. If he is guilty, I hope the trial is the least of his discomforts. If he is innocent, the trial will probably not be any worse than how the media and race baiters have already ruined his life, but having to battle false charges certainly wouldn't make things any easier. Whether he is guilty or innocent, let justice prevail.
This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
LOL what exactly do you think "Neighborhood watch" is?
Let's see first you need a neighborhood. Check. Next you need to roll around and look for trouble. Check. The gun was just a bonus.
Of course if he hadn't had it all we would have heard about some teenager asaulting a neighborhood watch captain, and really wouldn't have put much thought to him spending time in jail.
Stand your Ground laws need to be appended a bit. Here's why. Suppose you get in a random fight at a bar. Most bar fights end pretty quickly when the two realize that getting punched sucks, or when they get ejected. However, with Stand your Ground laws the way they are, you have no duty to retreat and can simply pull out your gun and shoot them as soon as they get the upper hand over you, saying that you fear for your life. Similarly, when you pull your gun, they'll pull their gun, saying they fear for their life. So what you have is both combatants standing their ground and the fight won't end until someone (or both of them) is dead.
It also leads to situations where you could go pick a fight with someone and then shoot them before they even get to you because you feared for your life because you thought they had a weapon.
There's going to be a lot of people using Stand your Ground laws as an excuse to escalate a run of the mill fight into a deadly situation that wouldn't otherwise have turned deadly. Some things might be justified, like if someone is car jacking you or trying to force their way into your home, but other things wouldn't..like someone catching you in bed with their wife and ending up dead because you feared for your life and had no duty to retreat from their home.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
The police report states that Zimmerman was treated at the scene by the FD for bleeding from his nose and the back of his head.
Trayvon's mother, and father, may never think poorly of their son's behavior despite any evidence. It is a common failing among parents.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I'm not from the US. A lot of my understanding of current political issues within the US come from this site. I find considerable value in reading the comments of nerds to issues that may not, in themselves, be News _for_ Nerds.
So add my vote to those saying that this _is_ the sort of thing I want to see on Slashdot (within reason, buyer beware, etc.)
I think it's very easy to see that the Slashdot community is very interested in topics like this.
Slashdot is about the only place where nerds convene on a regular basic to discuss politics. The editors simply need to look at the comments to see that the majority of people posting here are very interested in political and, especially, topics regarding society in general.
I don't care if I get modded flamebait, people rarely take this much time to argue against political news on Slashdot these days. People (not me) are simply sick of hearing about the case and don't feel that it warrants the attention it's gotten. So they bitch about the relevence here, and on every other news site.
Personally, I find it very disturbing and absurd that self defense laws can be used to justify deadly force against someone you were chasing at 7pm.
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I suggest you review the way Florida handles other shootings. Specifically, look up the incident involving Trevor Dooley and David James. It has many similarities.
Dooley confronted James. Dooley had a gun, but did not pull it out. James initiated a physical altercation to take the gun away from Dooley. James was shot in the process.
Dooley was 69, with fused discs in his neck. James was 41, six inches taller, seventy pounds heavier, and had been in the Air Force. Dooley claims he feared for his life - a claim I find reasonable, given the disparity between the two (much more reasonable than a 28-year old man armed with a gun fearing for his life at the hands of a teenager armed with skittles and iced tea). Eye witnesses saw James go for Dooley's gun, while acknowledging that Dooley initiated the verbal confrontation.
There are, however, two significant differences. The first is that Trevor Dooley was arrested merely two days after the shooting. The second is that Dooley is black and his victim, James, was white.
So yes...declining to file charges that the lead investigator recommended is unusual. The state attorney driving 50 miles on a Sunday night to discuss the incident is unusual. Taking the shooter's word for it that his record was clean is unusual. Making no attempt to notify the parents of a dead teenager and instead waiting for them to file a missing person's report is unusual.
:(){
What made this case national news is NOT because a light-skinned guy killed a black guy, or that he was 17 years old, or that he was only holding candy. What made this story news is that the local police dropped the investigation like a hot potato (possibly because of Zimmerman's parents job titles), held onto the body without informing the parents when they had ID and his phone (which family and friends called BTW), then announced that there wouldn't be charges based on spurious coverage under their stand-your-ground law.
All of the false equivalence citations to coverage of other cases where a black guy killed a white guy, how black kids dress, or how Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are "uppity troublemakers" is totally IRRELEVANT!
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Doesn't matter. He doesnt work for the Sanford police dept. Besides, what kind of idiot would patrol for crime unarmed? He is allowed to walk his own neighborhood and carry a gun. Unless they have evidence that Zimmermans story isn't true he is going to walk.
barring the brandishing of a weapon
Considering Martin was shot by Zimmerman, this condition may have been met before any altercation started. But we can only speculate.
Overall, I think the entire thing has been badly mishandled by the police, the prosecutors, the media, and the public. It has been blown out of proportion by the media, the public reacted with mob justice in mind as a result, and the police/prosecutors appear to have not done anything resembling due diligence in investigating the death of a teenager (as, whether or not it would have led to an arrest, it seems there was essentially no investigation to begin with).
Yes, it is an established fact. You're being way too literal and are misinterpreting the intent and meaning behind the dispatcher's sentence.
In standard English there is a kind of understatement which is very common and universally understood. For example, I encountered a friendly but unintelligent young woman earlier today and mentioned to a friend that "she's not the smartest person in the world". This did not mean that she had an IQ of 215 which would place her just shy of the smartest person. It meant she was dumb. It was a kind of understatement which is understood by everyone.
Similarly, the statement "we don't need you to do that" is a friendly way of saying "don't do it." For example, if my boss observes someone at work doing something pointless or a waste of time, he might say "we don't need you to do that" because it's more polite than outright commanding them to stop. The meaning would be understood by everyone because that kind of understatement is part of standard conversational English.
[ Similarly, the statement "we don't need you to do that" is a friendly way of saying "don't do it." ]
911 dispatchers are trained to give orders. They are trained to deal with people in various excited emotional states, and their job is to convey instructions as clearly and loudly as is necessary. "Sir, STOP DOING THAT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? STOP FOLLOWING THE SUSPECT AND WAIT FOR THE ARRIVAL OF THE POLICE".
See how much more effective that is? If you listen to various recordings of 911 calls, you will know that's the language they know how to use and are trained for. This "you don't need to do that" does not convey a directive.
P.S. I'm responding to your comment, not the entire case, by the way.