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Russian City Ever Watchful Against Being Sucked Into Earth

Jeremiah Cornelius writes "Dmitry Rybolovlev bought the most expensive apartment ever sold in New York City — the $88 million penthouse at 15 Central Park West — and did much for local real estate values. But in Berezniki, the mining city where he made his fortune, properties have literally been plunging. 'Imagine putting a sugar cube in a cup of tea,' Mikhail A. Permyakov, the chief land surveyor for Uralkali, the company that owns the mine. 'That is what happened under Berezniki.' Berezniki is afflicted by sinkholes, hundreds of feet deep, that can open at a moment's notice. So grave is the danger that the entire city is under 24-hour video surveillance. In 2008 a government commission cleared Mr. Rybolovlev of wrongdoing, blaming past unsafe practices for the sinkholes. A senior official close to Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin says that Mr. Rybolovlev bears some responsibility, even though he sold the mine after the occurrence of the first great openings."

37 of 110 comments (clear)

  1. money talks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    if one thinks the US has problems with wealthy, influential people, just look to Russia to see how bad it can get.

    1. Re:money talks by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if one thinks the world has problems with wealthy, influential people, just look everywhere to see how bad it can get.

      FTFY

    2. Re:money talks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In my experience Unions are run by people who want to be Wealth influential people. They don't really care about the works they are supposed to represent.

    3. Re:money talks by MrKaos · · Score: 5, Funny

      In my experience Unions are run by people who want to be Wealth influential people. They don't really care about the works they are supposed to represent.

      Well your free to have your opinion Mr Murdoch.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    4. Re:money talks by RCourtney · · Score: 3, Interesting

      FTA: "The largest sinkhole appeared in 2007."

      I thinks its even worse than you think since the only reason this tycoon is being made an example of NOW is that he probably forgot to pay his dues and/or respects to soon-to-be-president-again Putin. At least that has been the narrative in the past when some wealthy Russian falls from grace.

      In Soviet Russia, the corrupt decorrupt you.

    5. Re:money talks by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In my experience Unions are run by people who want to be Wealth influential people. They don't really care about the works they are supposed to represent.

      Well your free to have your opinion Mr Murdoch.

      He's right though. If unions were about representing the worker, they wouldn't be so hard to leave or disband. Once they are created they care more about growing and consolidating their power and influence. I've seen firsthand the lengths unions will go to to try to stay in power. Harassing people at their homes, getting the NLRB to change rules to give them a better chance to get voted in, and complaining and charging interference when the company advertises to its employees when the vote is. Not who to vote for, just when it is. You cannot claim to represent the workers when you don't even want the workers to vote.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    6. Re:money talks by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The point is, it's the wealthy, influential people who are the problem.

      No, the point is it's the sociopathic people who are the problem. It just so happens that many of the rich happen to be sociopathic, but they can be seen in all strata of a society. They care only about themselves, and will enrich themselves at the expense of others. But it is unfair to say it is the wealthy that are the problem. Look at Warren Buffet, who advocates for heavy taxes on the wealthy, or Bill and Melinda Gates, who donate much of their money to charity. There are plenty of wealthy people that, while they still try to further their wealth (which is what "pursuit of happiness" originally meant), still believe they have social responsibilities to those less fortunate than them, or to the government.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    7. Re:money talks by drsmithy · · Score: 2

      In my experience Unions are run by people who want to be Wealth influential people. They don't really care about the works they are supposed to represent.

      Though, with that said, aligning yourself with the people who are at least pretending to help everyone is more likely to produce a positive result for you than aligning with the people just blatantly fucking everyone else over.

    8. Re:money talks by RodBee · · Score: 2

      Not every union acts the same way, you know. There are places with better unionist legislation where they work fine.

    9. Re:money talks by RodBee · · Score: 2

      At the same time, Mr. Gates mega-corporation wage patent wars with everyone. And promotes blatant monopolism (this word does exist? My spell-checker seems to disagree) in its product.

      The true problem isn't THE SINNERS. People are not essentially good or bad (even your so blamed psychopaths, for that matter) and are prone to make bad decisions (or even being oblivious to the bad decisions made in her name) from time to time. I don't know if Gates is a nice guy or is just trying to generate some good PR karma, and I won't pass judgment on it. The true problem is the system (damn, I didn't want to use the S-Word) tend do not consider the damage your actions make if they also result in more money, and you can always clean your bad name in the repentant media.

      People get a free pass to punch a town full of holes and get away from it with a bad name, which can be erased if you so much as try to help the same town with the money the town made you.

  2. Berezniki Real Estate by toygeek · · Score: 5, Funny

    Everything but the kitchen sinking!

  3. Centurion South Africa by flyingfsck · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sink holes are quite common in many places around the world. There are no mines under Centurion, yet a sink hole occurs multiple times per year in the dolomite areas.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  4. Re:Momma jokes by Professr3 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't quit your day job

    If you have one

  5. “We will fight the holes with science" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    “We will fight the holes with science,” the mayor, Sergei P. Dyakov, said in an interview.

    Meanwhile in America, we hold prayer vigils for rain.

  6. 2012 by mutherhacker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The year where an apartment in manhattan is sold for an amount that can feed a small country for a month.

    1. Re:2012 by MrKaos · · Score: 2

      The year where an apartment in manhattan is sold for an amount that can feed a small country for a month.

      It would probably build a fair portion of the city on the other side of the river 'where the bedrock is sound'

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    2. Re:2012 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The potash mines employed many people for years before Mr Rybolovlev started skimming the profits off for his personal benefit (the mines opened in the 1930s as a Soviet work camp). Putting it another way, this stuff probably would have been mined whether or not Mr. Rybolovlev got involved, and it was mined for decades. He was just fortunate enough (*cough* corruption *cough*) to buy the mines for cheap when the government practically gave them away in the 1990s. This is a lucky opportunist, not a particularly skilled entrepreneur who cares about their employees. I'd be surprised if all the employees in his former potash business earn as much as he made from the deal (he sold it for billions). He's more concerned with whether he'll lose his $100 million yacht in his divorce.

    3. Re:2012 by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I understand your point, however two other points to keep in mind: 1) The money didn't disappear, it just changed pockets. 2) If you tried to spend that money to feed a small country that needed to be fed it, would almost certainly end up arming a warlord's henchmen. Don't worry about #1, solve #2 first.

  7. Nothing to see here. by nyan.kitty256 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Didn't anyone inform them that things tend to disappear in Russia? In this case, the entire city.

  8. In the west by swamp_ig · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the west you sink money into mining investments, in russia money in mining investments sink YOU!

  9. Grave by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Funny

    So grave is the danger

    I see what you did there.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  10. We have the same problems in this country by Grayhand · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Corporate profits always come first. Coal fires are a problem in some areas and at least one town had to be abandoned since the fires can last for decades and possibly centuries. Many towns had to be abandoned over industrial pollution and yet I constantly hear it's government regulations that cause the problems. How much of the planet do we sacrifice to greed? I'm not talking about halting progress this is about people cutting corners to make higher profits. Coal companies were supposed to have phased in safe guards to limit mercury and other heavy metals from being released but they ignored the regulations and now want them thrown out. A lot of cheap power depends on ignoring the problems it causes. In coal country areas near power plants have cancer rates through the roof. There's a price of pain and suffering. Often in the end the government ends up picking up the bill for health care and clean up. So long as corporations are protected and the people that run them are safe from being held accountable this will continue to happen. Change the rules and bankrupt the owners and corporate heads of the companies and see how fast it all changes.

    1. Re:We have the same problems in this country by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Definitely looks like Russia has learnt the lesson of privatisation well. Privatise the profits and socialise the costs. How come when you buy an existing mine you get the profits but get to deny responsibilities for the mine, where exactly do they squeeze that nifty clause or is that just post contract corruption.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:We have the same problems in this country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ask yourself what is being done to the people that cause so much damage. Ask yourself why they are protected by regulations from actual restitution. Ask yourself why profit is defined not by the net value a company brings to society.

      When you hear people denouncing statist regulation as the source of these problems and championing voluntary and peaceful solutions, all you have to do to see that it is true is to look at the definition of a corporation: it is a government enforced legal shield from liability. No amount of regulation(even supposing it is well meaning) can replace what is lost when government violently restricts the people in a society from choosing who they want to be operating in a given market. Protectionism does just that, it protects executives from actually having to serve customers, from serving society. If you want people to decide what is best for themselves(which might not be what you or I think is best, by the way), let them actually choose rather than the politicians. Violent mandates like regulations are at best a flawed attempt to mimic this process. More often, they are designed to further shield these corporations from the masses.

    3. Re:We have the same problems in this country by DrKnark · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There are a few places in Sweden where entire towns are in the process of being gradually moved due to the expansion of neighboring mines. The thing is, these towns were built _because_ of those mines in the first place, generations ago. The citizens don't mind, they actually support it, since they know their towns would become ghost towns without the mines.

      That being said, from the sound of things this town should have undergone similar procedures a long time ago. But there is more than one side to this type of situation.

    4. Re:We have the same problems in this country by turkeyfeathers · · Score: 3, Informative

      Corporate profits always come first. Coal fires are a problem in some areas and at least one town had to be abandoned since the fires can last for decades and possibly centuries.

      Citation needed. The fire that eventually resulted in the abandonment of Centralia, PA, was started when a fire at the local garbage dump ignited a natural coal seam that lay near the surface. Evil mining companies had nothing to do with the fire. Don't blame job-creating business owners and corporations for natural disasters... blame your choice of either Mother Nature or God.

    5. Re:We have the same problems in this country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the town would not be on top of the mine, these sinkholes in town would not appear and this would be non-news.

      Guess why the town is on top of the mine? Because it was originally a Soviet labor camp and built on walking distance from point of prime interest, the mine in this case. It's quite hard to blame "privatisation" for this decision. Also, if these sinkholes would appear on a mine in the middle of Siberia with no population above them, nobody would care. Those wouldn't be even environmental issue - just holes in the ground.

    6. Re:We have the same problems in this country by moortak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Centralia is only the best known coal fire in the US. Some are not mine related, some like Laurel run PA are. Centralia is a mix. The fire was started at a landfill, but that landfill was located in an abandonded strip mine. The natural coal seam wouldn't have been near the surface had it not been for the mine.

      --
      Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
  11. Video surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "So grave is the danger that the entire city is under 24-hour video surveillance."
    I guess London must be on its way down as well.

  12. Libertarian utopia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    what's not to like?

    1. Re:Libertarian utopia by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      That's funny. Calling a town that was created as part of the Soviet gulag a libertarian utopia.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  13. Re:Sinkholes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    In areas where sinkholes occur naturally, mining can make the problem much worse. Gold mining on the Far West Rand in South Africa caused a drastic lowering of the water table in the dolomitic limestone overlying the rocks containing the gold reefs, and this reactivated more less dormant solution cavities and led to an increase in the rate of formation of sinkholes at the surface. One of the worst was at the West Driefontein mine, where the crusher plant and a number of workers were lost. eeg.geoscienceworld.org/content/7/3/281.abstract

  14. Centralia, PA, USA by bryan1945 · · Score: 2

    Sound likes Centralia, PA-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania
    Except without all the hellfire. And in Centralia they did do it to themselves by setting their own mine on fire. I didn't get enough info from TFA to have an opinion if the mines were done badly enough to reach criminal levels, especially since it's being caused by a natural process and they did try to stop it. If they do hold Rybo responsible, would it even be enough to help the town out?

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  15. Re:Sinkholes by datapharmer · · Score: 3, Informative

    As a Floridian, I can tell you this is made worse by water bottling operations, mining, bad agricultural practices and pollution. While they do occur naturally doing things that erode the limestone (acidifying the soil) or lower the water table (the water helps holds it all up!) really makes it more prevalent. Last year there were many sinkholes that opened up on the same day - all within about a 10 mile radius of the water bottling plant. Sure, you could say that could be a coincidence, but it isn't. This can be observed time and time again.

    --
    Get a web developer
  16. Re:You know it's coming... by MrKaos · · Score: 3, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, hole buries you!

    Shouldn't it be;

    In Soviet Russia, hole sinks you!

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  17. Mexico City... by tomhath · · Score: 2

    ...is the best/worst example of a city that's sinking. Too many people, too much water being pumped out from under it. And the Aztec Gods are still mad about what happened to their people.

  18. Really? by drainbramage · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That was the point?
    So, you get rid of the wealthy then everyone will be rich and there will be no crime?
    Do I get a pony too?

    --
    No brain, no pain.