Slashdot Mirror
Software Engineers Remain Top US Job
D H NG writes "In a study by Careercast.com, software engineers retain their position as having the top jobs in 2012. The #1 and #2 positions remain the same from last year. One surprise entry was human resources manager in the #3 position. The worst job was lumberjack, beating out last year's roustabout."
The worst job was lumberjack...
I own some mountain property. Beetles, fire danger, blah, blah, blah. I play lumberjack a couple of weeks a year, and it is hell what it does to your body!
From the "toot my own horn dept"
I don't know about that worst job. I mean, I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.
... sys admins, DBAs, and network engineers have it so bad that they cannot even be mentioned by these types of surveys, apparently.
Working...
The article specifically mentions being a software engineer at a startup or startup like environment is a great job to have, because you get to sit in cafes with your macbook air all day.
As a software engineer at a startup, I understand that sentiment. I do have a lot of flexibility. I can work from anywhere, come in at any time, leave at any time. The work I do is fun, and considering that there the management hierarchy is essentially flat, I get to make important customer facing decisions AND implement them.
There is a big downside to this. There is a very high risk when you work into startups. You could be rolling in success one month, and the next month you could be forced to shutdown. TFA and most comments on startups looking inside out, don't often write about the stress that comes with this kind of risk. And you know what? We have a lot of fun, but we have plenty of 60 hour weeks too, when shit hits the fan.
Sorry.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
Being a lumberjack is ok!
It's not all lattes and coding in pajamas, though. If there's a glitch in a program's codes, Mr. Hilkert might be up past midnight searching for solutions.
Oh, the Humanity! Up past midnight looking for a bug in a program!
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Human Resources Manager wouldn't be a bad job if the pay wasn't so insulting. Outsourcing you overpaid, egotistical shits? Hell yes.
Not sure how it ended up at #3, won't bother reading the article to find out.
I started programming in High School thirty years ago and yes it was GW-Basic but it was programming. There is such a high demand for developers that companies are starting to hire junior developers with two years experience in .Net and C#. We need to start offering programming as an elective in all US schools, even it it is just html, javascript and css as a starter.
You start teaching High School freshman using Microsofts Express software, by their Junior year they will be interning at Fortune 500 companies and very likely will start working at graduation. Depending on their abilities and especially if they are a natural programmer, there is no limit on what they can make.
This should also be true for any other language currently being used in the business world.
"How do you know if you've never tried it?"
Researches, designs, develops and maintains software systems along with hardware development for medical, scientific, and industrial purposes.
Guess that's different. It's quite narrow. Maybe the rating is actually accurate for that niche. But the rest of the industry? Not a chance.
"Software Engineer" can mean so many different things. It could be heaven. It could be hell.
Best Job: Oligarch
Worst Job: Servant to Oligarch
P.S.: These are the only two jobs.
data is being created faster than it's being analyzed
(Kirk Luoto) .. "There were times when I thought maybe I should do something different," he says. But he quickly realized he wouldn't be happy in some of the higher-ranked jobs, especially the cubicle-based ones. "I don't like desks," he says.
There is a lot to be said about understanding what you like an don't like to do.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
...and I'm not surprised, given that they apparently laid off the ones who were supposed to handle this article. Anybody want to take a crack at correlating the category scores with the green-bar indicators?
I'd put in a good word for layabout as an enjoyable occupation, though.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
This is ironic, as the same day I am reading that the school I attended is looking to slash its Computer Science program. See link:
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=107291847&gid=87185&commentID=76608150&trk=view_disc&ut=3T3QmAZFiDn5c1
UF is shotting itself in the foot. Please visit this site http://saveufcise.wordpress.com/ to sign a petition to oppose the budget cuts!
"work environment" is completely subjective. Some people like busy active interaction, others like to work alone. Some like to talk to the public, others don't. Stress is also difficult to quantify: If an airline pilot screws up, hundreds of people die - but its really unlikely. If a software engineer screws up he gets fired - but he is much more likely to screw up than the pilot. As far as physical demands - some people would prefer a job where they get exercise working outdoors - being a lumberjack is OK
I wonder how porn star would rate on their list......how would you rate the "work environment".
What is interesting about software engineering right now is that we are at a point where someone, solo or with a couple of buddies, can realistically develop a product and reach an audience. We have not been able to do that very easily in a while.
In the stone ages of personal computers, the 1980s, a few guys working out of their garage could literally develop software, put a 5.25in floppy in a ziplock baggy with a xeroxed manual, and take it to the local mom-and-pop and brick-and-mortar computer shops that were around back then. Some friends and I *literally* did the above. You could talk to the manager, do a quick demo, he'd often buy a few put it on the shelf and after they sold give you a phone call to order some more. Repeat as necessary, increasing your geographic coverage.
Then came a couple of decades where the small computer shops were replaced by big chain stores and later online. During those times it was really difficult to reach customers. Even with the internet you were still largely limited to selling to a relatively small technically inclined niche. The general public did not get onboard until very recently.
Today with the general public largely accepting pure digital distribution via the various app stores the little guy(s) can actually reach a decent audience. For example Perpenso Calc for iPhone iPad, a calculator app offering RPN, scientific, statistics, business and hex functionality. A product like this shows up in a store search right next to HP and TI offerings. So yes, its a pretty good time to be a software engineer.
With so many so-called "software engineers", that explains why there is just so much bad software out there. Not everyone has the discipline to turn their software development practices into engineering work. In my experience a lot of software engineers are really just, well, ... coders... ?
There is so much variability in jobs that these types of lists don't really say a whole lot - except for maybe informing incoming college freshmen on what fields to stay away from. For example, I work in IT. I make more than a "Corporate Executive (senior)" and just less than "Military General" (well, with my variable bonus I actually get more than the General) according to this list. But I have no direct reports and a Technical Lead. Variability. Someone in a different location with a lower cost of living and maybe less experience doing what I do would make significantly less. Am I an outlier? Yes. I understand that the lists are trying for averages and shouldn't tempt people to go into a certain field by showing the highest possible pay.
I'm a software engineer, and I doubt it's the best job. I even doubt that there's much "science" in how they determined best.
I'd say my top 4 jobs would be:
4) company CEO
3) TV show host
2) professional athlete
1) lottery winner
And before you say that lottery winner isn't a choice/profession, just remember that the chance of a teenager becoming one isn't *that* different from the chance of becoming a mathematician or engineer.
I see what you are getting at. But those professions really depend on you hitting the lottery. The probability of being successful in those professions are extremely low, although there is no limit to how successful you can become.
For a person who wants to lead an essentially peaceful and happy life, I wouldn't recommend any of those.
If you graduated from Carnegie Mellon at the top of your class with an MS in Software Engineering, would you have it just as hard as someone who just got by with their BS from Susquehanna University, or would the field look really good?
You can see an interesting thing about infographics design at the NYT here.
...meaning top salary we want forced down by flooding the market with graduates.
And for the third year in a row the worst job is.....CRACK WHORE.
The companies that give the software engineer title to actual software engineers...of course they are happy and content. Their company probably doesn't try to screw them over. I'd like to note that many companies have programmer analysts doing the work of a software engineer just so they don't have to pay them what a software engineer gets paid.
Can't see why it would rank so high in stress when those are the factors. If I want to "get away" i can retreat to the cockpit and close the door: that removes "Working in the Public Eye" and "Meeting the Public" quite easily (depending on how those are defined), not that people stress me out. "Outlook/Growth Potential"- don't get me started on the age 60/65 retirement issue: it's been five years of stagnation on top of a bad economy and 9/11. "Environmental Conditions"- I do walkarounds in the winter, but I get to control the temp in my workspace to warm back up. Oh yeah, polar crossings are prohibited during solar events, but I do get the equivalent of a couple extra X-rays per year in cruise. If "Own Life at Risk, Life of Another at Risk" are considered important, maybe they could add a few dollars to my pay to sooth my nerves... a surgeon is paid 3-5 times what I make but he only holds one person's life in his hands at a time, I've got hundreds."Hazards Encountered"- that's fairly open ended. Maybe you should ask Clayton F. Osbon's copilot about that. "Physical Demands (stoop, climb, etc.)"- I'm not 20 pounds overweight from physical exertion, but lethargy is its own physical demand. "Deadlines"- I'll move when I'm damn well ready to, and not a moment sooner. At least safety is still both under the pilots control and his responsibility.
What stresses me out isn't even considered: 1) being paid half what I used to and working twice as much, and 2) not having had a pay raise for 9 years and 3) having managements tell employees "We're very committed to getting a deal with the pilots too. But it has to be fair; fair to them and fair to us." while they continue feed at the trough. Still love my work, just eager for some rewards to return to the profession.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
I'm working on a programmable chainsaw.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I started life as an oyster picker which I would rate down below logger. I can say with 100% certainty that I'm very glad I'm now a Software Engineer.
How come "Software Engineer" and "Actuary", both desk jobs according to their descriptions have different scores for "Physical Demand". Especially when the later is measured according to the weight one is expected to lift while performing his duties (ok, they say they also take "pulling, pushing, standing, walking, stooping, kneeling, crawling, climbing, crouching or reaching" into account, but still... click the "Jobs Rated Methodology" link). And what do the green bars mean? They don't seem to be scaled according to the scores...
I would like to add to and learn from the experience of your web
What a silly list with no basis in reality. I suppose if you have no ambition or drive that is a good place to start. Otherwise, do something you love. Besides, the #1 job in the world is CEO. Requires no skill, little formal training, and the pay is pretty good.
Lumberjack > Assistant Crack Whore
If you read the methodology page http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/2012-jobs-rated-methodology then a lot of the problems are obvious. One that stands out to me is that the stresses are almost all elements of other factors, especially work environment. The stress criteria are not what comes to my mind when I think about work stresses. I can see where they are legitimate but not if they are already reflected by other categories.
This article is so bad that I would label it spam. Please remove this crap. It's not remotely factual. Put it in Science-fiction, perhaps
Yeah, I know, there are some high paid IT jobs.
But I would not expect those jobs to last. Employers are offshoring as fast as they possible can, and the few jobs that cannot be offshored, are being filed by foreign visa workers. There is just no way for Americans to compete with third world wages.
China, and India, are cranking out about 600,000 tech degrees a year. And the US is not even able to place it's own tech graduates.
Remember how manufacturing was offshored? Well offshoring IT is far easier. With IT, you don't even have to ship anything, just zap files back and forth over the internet. Practically all IT jobs can be offshored, and that is clearly the trend.
You say your manager likes your work, and would never replace you with a foreign worker? When your department gets offshored, your manager will lose his/her job as well.
Sorry, but it's a no-brainer, offshoring work saves money. So what do you think US companies are going to do?
I've been a software engineer for nearly 30 years, as has my wife. We work in the medical device field. 60 hour weeks are common. Schedules are based on marketing wish fulfillment. Management is non-technical, they want it done quick and dirty. Until after launch, when quality and compliance are number one. V&V are considered quality filters, which can correct for any and all corner cutting during development.
In the medical device field, your work is governed by law - intentionally violate "the act" and you Mr/Ms SW Engineer can be convicted, losing your life savings, be imprisoned,and disbarred for life. Beside all that, your mistakes can kill patients.
Spend too much time worrying about regulatory compliance and safety - you will be fired for not cranking out product. Focus on cranking our product and you employer WILL scape goat you for not focusing on quality and compliance.
Any SW engineer who feels a low level of stress is overdoing the Prozac,
Say, that is interesting. I find it fascinating that someone can write Propenso Calc (tm) and that the public can find Propenso Calc (tm) in an online store, and can buy Propenso Calc (tm) (special half-off deal today only!) and can solve lots of interesting problems with Propenso Calc (tm). I don't know if there was any other time in history when Propenso Calc (tm) could have done as well as Propenso Calc (tm) has done.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
Offshoring is so 2005. It only took a couple of years for most businesses to figure out it was a disaster that cost more than they saved because they had to resource the people they layed of (or find new people) once they brought the (now badly broken) work back in-house.
And you can't place tech graduates? The unemployment rate for .Net and Java is close to 0% as is probably possible.
The mint has a humorous post on one of the worst jobs in that list.
Say, does anyone here know where I can procure a site license for Propenso Calc(tm), a calculator app offering RPN, scientific, statistics, business and hex functionality??
This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
Didn't I see the main actor, Woody Harrelson, using Propenso Calc(tm) during the engaging feature-film, RAMPART ?? I believe I did...
When I grow up, I want to have Christopher Walken hair.
Perpenso Calc(tm)... either a speling fail on my part, or it must have been one of those dirty, rotten, thieving, knock-off apps flooding the app store.
When I grow up, I want to have Christopher Walken hair.
>There is a big downside to this. There is a very high risk when you work into startups. You could be rolling in success one month, and the next month you could be forced to shutdown. TFA and most comments on startups looking inside out, don't often write about the stress that comes with this kind of risk.
After 19 years in industry including five full time startup jobs I don't think there's a quantitative difference in job stability between working at a startup and working at a big company. Only the details vary. Some details are important - how much warning you have and potential for a severance package in the unlikely event you don't retain "a" job. Some are less important - your project, perhaps team, and maybe office end when the product is "complete" and sent off-shore for sustaining engineering, a competing group with better political connections has your product slated for end of life, your group gets re-organized to deal with issues on other products, the company built the wrong product and/or sold it in the wrong way and/or had the wrong target market so it either pivots (most likely end of project) or runs out of money (read on).
I suspect keeping a job when a startup runs out of money isn't appreciably less likely than at a big company. Two out of five of the startups I worked for ran out of money and had substantially all of their assets acquired by larger companies (one was acquired for more than corporate debt and VC investments, one pivoted and has yet to run out of money, and the current one is doing well). You show up at work, are told you no longer have a job, and get an offer letter from the acquiring company (you can't actually sell people) with a raise.
>And you know what? We have a lot of fun, but we have plenty of 60 hour weeks too, when shit hits the fan.
That's a software industry problem that's not unique to startups. Software engineering groups almost never architect things in a way that facilitates testing and validation. Combined with insufficient automated testing that leads to release cycles that are both long and unpredictable. Feature sets often change without schedule changes.
All of that is completely unnecessary, but neither anecdotal evidence from personal experience, book cites, nor examples within the company are enough to convince people that the choice between quality and speedy delivery usually is both or neither not either.