The Digital Differences In Americans

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

The Digital Differences In Americans

Posted by samzenpus on Sunday April 15, 2012 @05:41AM from the no-surfing dept.

antdude writes "When the Pew Internet Project first studied the role of the internet in American life, there were big differences between those who were using the internet and those who weren't. Today, differences in internet access still exist, especially when it comes to access to high-speed broadband at home. From the article: 'Virtually every U.S. household with an annual income over $75,000 is online, but that’s only true for 63% of adults who live in a household with an annual income under $30,000. The numbers look quite similar for different education levels: 94% of adults with post-graduate degrees are online, but 57% of those without high school diplomas remain offline. Beside the obvious economic barriers to entry, though, the Pew poll also found that half of those who don’t go online do so because they just don’t think “the Internet is relevant to them.” One in five of those who are not online today think that they just don’t know enough about technology to use the Internet on their own.'"

214 comments

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

What a surprise! by memoreks · 2012-04-15 05:42 · Score: 4, Funny

People earning less cash can afford less things! Who'da thought it?
1. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 05:46 · Score: -1
  
  OH hey, mutha fucka! Your sarcasm is a real snore, bro! Verily, ye, ye cannot effectively use it. why dontchya just chill, brah? No one wants it here.
2. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 05:46 · Score: 0
  
  People earning less cash can afford less things! Who'da thought it?
  I think you missed the point.
3. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 05:53 · Score: -1
  
  There are economic class differences in access to the internet. OH, THE HUMANITY!!!
  Wealthier people have different lifestyles with regard to the internet as well as most everything else. OH, THE HUMANITY!!!
  Some people just don't see that the internet is relevant to their lives. OH, THE HUMANITY!!!
4. Re:What a surprise! by spire3661 · 2012-04-15 06:01 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Actually yes it is a big deal. After heat, internet is #1 need in the modern age. You can run a workstation, router and modem easily from solar. Maybe not all day, but enough to get a day of schooling in. I dont think you understand the importance of the internet in every home. EVERY HOUSE should have the option for affordable or free internet, its that important.
  
  --
  Good-bye
5. Re:What a surprise! by JoeMerchant · 2012-04-15 06:09 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Actually yes it is a big deal. After heat, internet is #1 need in the modern age.
  So, make sure to recycle those old P4 desktops into needy homes, heat and internet access in one package.
6. Re:What a surprise! by couchslug · 2012-04-15 06:11 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  People earning less manage beer, expensive rims for their donk, and plenty of other things according to their priorities.
  "Poor" in the US isn't anything like "poor" in Afghanistan.
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
7. Re:What a surprise! by Cheerio+Boy · 2012-04-15 06:11 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  First - the internet doesn't immediately rank as a survival item. Not even close.
  
  BUT I agree with your point that it should be very close after satisfying those needs.
  
  The problem is that a great many companies want to lock down what you can and can't learn on the Internet. They want you to be nice little servants and only learn those things that don't open the doors to you thinking about things other than those immediate survival things.
  
  The more you educate people in how to think and what's available outside their front door the more free they become. The more free they become the less they wonder why they should pay heed to those in power.
  
  And to those in power that's a dangerous thing. And until we fix the system (not likely any time soon) you will see them clamp down and clamp down hard on anything they consider a threat to their nice cushy positions.
  
  --
  
  "Bah!" - Dogbert
8. Re:What a surprise! by spire3661 · 2012-04-15 06:18 · Score: 2
  
  I qualified it with 'modern age' and prefaced it with implied shelter and then dashed it with bit of hyperbole. I didnt outright say it was a survival item but after heat, shelter, food, and love nothing else comes close.
  
  --
  Good-bye
9. Re:What a surprise! by Cheerio+Boy · 2012-04-15 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  The more free they become the less they wonder why they should pay heed to those in power.
  
  Sorry - meant "The more free they become the MORE they wonder why they should pay heed to those in power."
  
  --
  
  "Bah!" - Dogbert
10. Re:What a surprise! by rubycodez · 2012-04-15 06:21 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  a pampered product of a prosperous area, you have no idea what is important and essential. internet not even on the list. let me help you out. income, clothing, health are some other things in the top ten. Internet not even there, mostly a convenience and entertainment source for most people with plenty of alternatives.
11. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  The sad thing is Internet access in the US is very difficult to get:
  1: It can easily go over $100 a month for basic Internet services, since DSL or cable tack a bunch of fees.
  2: Other than cable or DSL, there isn't much available. Clear is around, but after all the fees, that is also around a C-note a month.
  3: Tethering is restricted or metered, which makes it not an option. I do some basic streaming on a phone, and there goes my allocation for the month, and I'm in the $10/gig range.
  4: Public Wi-Fi is few and far between due to abuse. Most of the coffee shops where I live that used to have it, have finally shut it down because people turned the tables into their offices, turning away paying customers. Most "public" Wi-Fi isn't free, and requires signing up. Other places sling ads at you, Phorm style.
  5: If you do find a Wi-Fi connection, it usually is saturated by people using it for P2P.
  6: Of course, there is the public library, but you have to fight your way past the bums fapping in order to get anything done.
  All and all, Internet access is very hard to get for a poorer person.
12. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  I don't know where in the U.S. you live, but no poor people I know have donkeys.
13. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:37 · Score: 0
  
  The story here is probably not that this effect is visible but, instead, how pronounced the effect is. If you look at other first-world countries, it's likely that the effect is smaller as a result of policies that ensure internet and mobile access at a reasonable cost. Meanwhile, here in the US where we've allowed the telcos to behave as obnoxiously as they do, having both services is beyond many poor people and they opt for mobile service over home service.
14. Re:What a surprise! by spire3661 · 2012-04-15 06:38 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Im sorry you see the Library of Alexandria at your fingertips to be a mere source of entertainment. I live in the reality of my time, internet is VITAL to surviving in the modern era. Cant even file your taxes in the U.S. except online now. We arent talking about hypothetical post apocalyptic eras. Im fully aware of the PRIORITY SHIFTING that would occur if we entered a mad max scenario. Even then id be working on long range radio, re-establishing packetized data transfer, and start work on a library that can be easily shared as soon as more basic survival needs were met.
  
  --
  Good-bye
15. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:41 · Score: 1
  
  Soooo... after everything else that is actually a "need", internet access is the #1 luxury.
  Good thing most of those people have local libraries with internet access.
  Glad we got that all cleared up.
16. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 07:00 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  First - the internet doesn't immediately rank as a survival item. Not even close.
  i think if you know what you are doing its the only thing you need.
  For a time my cousin went homeless. Facebook and a smart phone was her way to beg food and transportation, eventually finding her way to the right government assistance. She has an apartment and a job now. Her facebook has a chapter of all the pictures she took as she wandered the street for a few months.
17. Re:What a surprise! by ideonexus · 2012-04-15 07:16 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I'm sorry this display of ignorant prejudice got modded up as "insightful". I know there are unthinking people on slashdot like anywhere else, but I would expect the more thoughtful community members to down-mod such an offensive stereotype that has no basis in reality. If 13 percent of Americans are poor then, based on your idiotic generalization, there should be base-thumping rim-spinning Lexus cars all over the freakin' place.
  I accidentally bought a house in a poor neighborhood in Northeastern North Carolina because I naively didn't know segregation still existed in the South. The people who lived on my street owned old beat-up cars and a few lived without electricity, heating their homes with wood stoves. Yes, there were a few kids whose hobby was working on old Cadillacs to bling them out or whatever, but they were the exception and not the rule.
  When I got to know these families, I was constantly challenging them as to why they didn't get rid of their cable-TV service (shared between households) and not go in on a community internet connection with wifi? The answer, it took me forever to finally understand, is that the entire family can share watching a single cheap television, while a computer is something only one person can use and interact with at a time. When you have five kids, you can't get a computer for each and every one of them.
  Finally, I sold some stock and used it to buy every kid on my street a used laptop at $200 a head. I gave the kids the laptops on the condition that they take a series of classes from me about computing, which I blogged about, and everything seemed great. I opened our internet connection and put signal-boosters in some of the houses so everyone could enjoy it. I thought I was doing a good thing in this world.
  One year later, not a single one of those laptops was still functioning. One by one they succumbed to being stolen by neighborhood gang members or simply broke from the abuse they took at home (if you've ever been in a poor family's damp, cockroach-infested, ancient crumbling home, you'll understand this last statement completely). On the bright side, after the kids got on the internet for a little while, they craved more and I get to keep in touch with most of them on Facebook today as they will walk to the library to get online or have pooled their money together on a family computer.
  So when I read comments like those of the parent, it fills me with rage at their ignorance, and when I see people the statement up as "insightful" it breaks my heart.
  
  --
  i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
18. Re:What a surprise! by Azadre · 2012-04-15 07:17 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You can go to the Post Office and Local Library to file your taxes. The working world still exists primarily outside of the internet. Banking is the only industry that has truly become dependent on the internet because of NACHA. Yet cash still exists in our society.
19. Re:What a surprise! by magarity · 2012-04-15 07:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  EVERY HOUSE should have the option for affordable or free internet, its that important.
  Free internet service? How does that happen? Oh, you mean "paid for by someone else". Is it really that important?
20. Re:What a surprise! by MaskedSlacker · 2012-04-15 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  After heat, internet is #1 need in the modern age
  No one within a thousand miles of me needs a heater.
21. Re:What a surprise! by the+eric+conspiracy · 2012-04-15 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  Mod parent -1 'insensitive clod' please.
22. Re:What a surprise! by sourcerror · 2012-04-15 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Try to get a job without an e-mail address.
23. Re:What a surprise! by anagama · 2012-04-15 07:39 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Much of your post is just wrong.
  Regarding #1: DSL and cable aren't $100/mo -- I have comcast at home, which is expensive but my only choice, and it's $60/mo. I don't get cable TV or voip, just internet, but it is wrong to say that internet is $100/mo.
  #2: Clear used to be a better bargain, but I have a Clear for my boat and it's currently $50/mo, not $100. Netflix streams just fine with the basic account.
  #3: I have an unlimited unthrottled data plan with TMobile (which sadly they don't offer anymore), $70/mo and I could add tethering for $15/mo. As soon as I get around to it, I'll ditch Clearwire and do that, but for the most part, cell phone data plans do suck, so I'll give you this one.
  #4: Not sure where you live, but in my particular smallish-80k-person-town in the Pacific Northwest, you'd be hard pressed to find anyplace downtown where free wifi was NOT available. Every coffee shop and many restaurants offer so much overlapping coverage, there's never an issue with access. Granted, this may not be true everywhere, but in this region, free wifi is as expected as a free glass of water.
  #5: never had any trouble with saturated connections.
  #6: while plenty of homeless people do use the library computers, there's usually space available and if you have your own laptop, it doesn't matter due to the free wifi.
  You make it sound like getting on the net is hard or expensive -- in many places it isn't if a person can find $200 for a used laptop. Certainly my experiences will not be true for every place in the country, but you should realize that your experiences are also not ubiquitous.
  
  --
  What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
24. Re:What a surprise! by the+eric+conspiracy · 2012-04-15 07:44 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  What complete bullcrap. There are still some 40% or so of people who file by mail. And as far as reference libraries, less than one percent of the Library of Congress is online.
25. Re:What a surprise! by clang_jangle · 2012-04-15 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  I'm a poor person who has a donkey. He's cute, but useless -- kicks if you try to ride him, and he bites too!
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
26. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 08:02 · Score: 0
  
  Because we have credit cards. Take those away and I think our poor would be much more similar.
27. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 08:26 · Score: 0
  
  +5 for being a decent human being...
28. Re:What a surprise! by JosephTX · 2012-04-15 08:30 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  most things listed in the Bill of Rights don't help with survival either (except for the 2nd amendment... 200 years ago). Sheltered suburbanites need to stop saying "well they can SURVIVE without that."
  The simple fact is that, when most people have access to the internet, it leaves those without access at a SEVERE disadvantage--and most don't have that access because they're already at a disadvantage to begin with. And before people go all libertarian and say "that's their problem", it's not just theirs: It's also their kids' problems. Nobody can seriously expect a kid growing up in a poor neighborhood--most likely with one parent working afternoon shifts to pay bills instead of staying home to raise them--to somehow compete with all the other kids who can just google any subject they're having trouble with.
  A modern new bill of rights regarding the internet and computer science really is needed, and not just limited to giving everyone affordable internet access (which would require the prostitutes we call Congressmen to take back the telecommunications infrastructure they sold to Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon for a fraction of its cost in the 90s), but should also include guarantees such as net neutrality, privacy protection, and rights to any algorithms too basic to be patented.
29. Re:What a surprise! by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-04-15 08:40 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  After heat, internet is #1 need in the modern age.
  Spoken like someone who's never had to worry about having their fundamental survival needs met. You're assuming that every person in America already has the basics and that just isn't true.
  Water, food, and shelter come way before internet. Also heating your shelter, preserving your food, and preparing your food. That'd usually be done with electricity but that requires more expenditures of greater priority than internet. Fridge, electric heater, electric stove. Still don't have hot water yet, tho. It wasn't very long ago that it was common to rent a "cold water flat" where you heated water on the stove. So your next splurge will be a water heater.
  Those are the things poor people worry about. I can remember a time when my dad lived in a barn. If the internet had existed back then, getting a computer and going online would have been waaaaay down on the to-do list. It looked more like:
  Get a room in a house with a floor.
  And running water.
  HOT running water.
  And heat.
  And a fridge.
  Put food in fridge.
  Get a phone. (Today's version of the internet, I suppose.)
  Communication's way down the list of fundamentals.
30. Re:What a surprise! by pnot · 2012-04-15 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  I can only say: good on you.
31. Re:What a surprise! by evanbd · 2012-04-15 08:46 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  EVERY HOUSE should have the option for affordable or free internet, its that important.
  Free internet service? How does that happen? Oh, you mean "paid for by someone else". Is it really that important?
  It's really hard to get a job without an Internet connection. Sure, it can be done, but it's harder. It's almost as important as having a phone number and address. Would it be cheaper to subsidize Internet access than to pay unemployment benefits? Or to forgo the taxes that get collected from people who are employed?
32. Re:What a surprise! by YrWrstNtmr · 2012-04-15 09:10 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  buy every kid on my street a used laptop at $200 a head.
  
  I did similar in the late 90's. Bunch of ex-corporate laptops, given to kids who would otherwise not have one.
  
  One year later, not a single one of those laptops was still functioning.
  
  And I had exactly the same experience. All of them were toasted/stolen/pawned in short order.
33. Re:What a surprise! by serialband · 2012-04-15 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  All I can say is hats off to you.
34. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 09:43 · Score: 0
  
  OH hey, mutha fucka! Your sarcasm is a real snore, bro! Verily, ye, ye cannot effectively use it. why dontchya just chill, brah? No one wants it here.
  You're wrong. What no one wants here is your shitty lame ass attempt at being urban.
35. Re:What a surprise! by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2012-04-15 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  Seconded!
  
  --
  
  "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
36. Re:What a surprise! by Stiletto · 2012-04-15 09:57 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Wow, you gave a bunch of poor, crime-ridden people in a poor, crime-ridden neighborhood some semi-valuable luxury goods, and they soon get stolen or pawned. I didn't see THAT one coming!
37. Re:What a surprise! by lennier · 2012-04-15 09:59 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Water, food, and shelter come way before internet.
  
  I know it's only one data point, but let me give you a counterexample. I live in Christchurch, New Zealand, and as you may know we had a little earthquake last year. For nearly a week, in my part of town, power, water and sewerage were down, the roads had huge potholes - but I had a Blackberry with battery power, and the cellphone towers were up. With the web browser on my Blackberry, I was *literally* able to locate drinkable water - the local city council had a truck handing out free water bottles, but its location changed every night. They posted the location on their website and I learned about it from reading the site on my Blackberry. In this case, Internet access GAVE ME water.
  Second data point, is that we got electrical power back a week before we got tap water back, and when the tap water did come onstream, it had a boil notice (ie, it wasn't considered drinkable without boiling). You might not realise it, but electrical grid power has a HUGE survival advantage - unboiled water can make you sick, but boiled water is good. So in this case too, electricity preceded just "water" as a requirement: there was lots of "water" available, but converting it into "drinkable water" required electricity. (Or gas; so as well as a water cache, I've now stashed a disposable butane stove).
  Third data point: power and water didn't fail equally across the city, and petrol stations remained accessible. So cars became very important, and driving to friends and relatives to charge cellphones, fill water bottles, and take hot showers, quickly became a thing. Not what we expected, but there you are.
  What I've learned from the quake, and what I think isn't at all obvious to your average First World suburb-dweller (as I am), is that disaster scenarios (including economic collapse and poverty) are never a total all-or-nothing thing. You don't "go back to the Stone Age" in one hit, and you don't come back in straight line. Infrastructure tends to fail raggedly, in random order, and it doesn't recover in a strict linear Maslow hierarchy either. So it's very likely that you may have cellphone but no power, power but no drinkable water, Internet and TV but no phone... and so on.
  So don't laugh at people who think the Internet is up there with drinkable water. Use whatever you've got access to and leverage it. And information on "what services are near you" is very very very important in any scenario.
  
  --
  You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
38. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 10:01 · Score: 0
  
  Would it not also be equally as easy for these people to use the internet for free at many of our fine public facilities such as libraries?
39. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 10:18 · Score: -1
  
  The majority of the world's gainfully employed individuals do not have an email address. The world is larger than your mom's basement, gamefag
40. Re:What a surprise! by morari · 2012-04-15 10:26 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Is it really that important?
  Yes, it is.
  It's a vital utility in our modern society. It should be available everywhere, and should not cost the ridiculous fees it does. It, like all utilities, should not be run by for-profit companies. Your ISP, your electric, your water... they should all be socialized, or at the very least run as co-ops. Competition doesn't work as is. When you remove competition, as is the case with said utilities, it certainly will never work correctly or fairly.
  
  --
  "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
41. Re:What a surprise! by morari · 2012-04-15 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  Just think... we could have had all of this solved in 1944 with the Second Bill of Rights! Too bad the American public seems hell bent on beating itself with a stick, flogging away in order to make the rich richer.
  
  --
  "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
42. Re:What a surprise! by cynyr · 2012-04-15 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  they have the paper copies of the forms? and all the instructions for those forms for free? yes?
  
  --
  All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
43. Re:What a surprise! by demonlapin · 2012-04-15 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  I accidentally bought a house in a poor neighborhood in Northeastern North Carolina because I naively didn't know segregation still existed in the South.
  The two parts of that sentence - before the "because" and after - do not appear to have a relationship to each other. Did you mean that you accidentally bought a house in a poor black neighborhood, when you meant to get one in a poor white neighborhood? Or did you really accidentally buy a crappy house in a crappy neighborhood because you didn't even bother to look at the thing, or meet the neighbors, before buying it?
44. Re:What a surprise! by soundguy · 2012-04-15 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  1: Basic stand-alone internet and all fees is generally under $50 in most civilized locations (I pay $130 for a 35/35 FIOS business line. Consumer accounts are many times cheaper)
  2: Clear is $35 a month for no-contract service with user-owned equipment. (I have this as a backup) A 2 year contract is about $25 a month.
  3: Anyone on Slashdot should be geeky enough to know that most cellular towers and their backhaul are ridiculously inadequate and will never be a reasonable option for modern internet access until towers are 100 yards apart and each one has a 10gigabit fiber backhaul. Cellular internet service is for shelling into your network in an emergency and for stupid low-traffic crap like twitter. For anything else, see option 4
  4: You don't need to sign up for anything to use library computers.
  5: How dare you complain about the valiant information freedom fighters! Why do you hate America?
  6: Step1 - register "bumsfapping.com", step 2 - video tape bums fapping in public library, step 3 - profit. (the unspoken step 4 - Google buyout = insane profit)
  
  --
  Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
45. Re:What a surprise! by JosephTX · 2012-04-15 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  Not that I disagree with how useful an internet connection is, but homeless people aren't known for having either facebook pages OR smartphones.
46. Re:What a surprise! by godrik · 2012-04-15 12:02 · Score: 2
  
  Bullshit, I filled up my taxes by mail.
47. Re:What a surprise! by rubycodez · 2012-04-15 12:12 · Score: 1
  
  Tens of millions of people have done just that, and in this thread we are speaking of the jobs the poor get.
48. Re:What a surprise! by Totenglocke · 2012-04-15 12:14 · Score: 1
  
  Or the brilliant insight that senile - I mean senior - citizens who grew up when radio was the most technologically advanced thing don't have an interest in those newfangled computational contraptions.
  
  --
  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
49. Re:What a surprise! by rubycodez · 2012-04-15 12:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  clueless you be. We are talking the reality of 2012. Most human knowledge is still not found on the internet. The local library has plenty of current books that are not available free online, and even the poor can borrow them the same as my family does. You can file your taxes in the USA without the internet. At half a century old I have gone half my life with no cell phone, you probably think that a necessity too in your pampered delusional mind. You will NOT be building a packet radio network if civilisation fails, those plans are taking for granted too much of infrastructure that will be gone and resources that will dwindle away rapidly.
50. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 12:20 · Score: 0
  
  But they all have cigarettes.
51. Re:What a surprise! by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-04-15 12:47 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You weren't poor. You were inconvenienced during an emergency. Like comparing apples and elephants.
52. Re:What a surprise! by NemoinSpace · 2012-04-15 12:50 · Score: -1, Flamebait
  
  So when I read comments like those of the parent, it fills me with rage at their ignorance
  Your the guy that "accidentally" bought a crappy house, gives useless goods to poor people and THEN cops a holier than thou attitude and accuses other people of IGNORANCE?
  get off your high horse, the parent post wasn't that offensive and was actually fundamentally more humane than your bleeding liberal rant. I hope you feel better.
53. Re:What a surprise! by couchslug · 2012-04-15 13:01 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  "If 13 percent of Americans are poor then, based on your idiotic generalization, there should be base-thumping rim-spinning Lexus cars all over the freakin' place."
  I certainly didn't say "Lexus". I have lived in South Carolina for decades, and I'm a mechanic who has PLENTY of intimate exposure to what the poor drive while working on those vehicles at my buds car lot.
  There are blinged out junkers "all over the place", and it's common to see people piss away money decorating their dangerous, poorly maintained vehicles when they could be doing something much more beneficial to themselves.
  Like it or not, many of the poor cherish self-destructive behaviours. Meth doesn't buy itself, nor crack, nor booze and nicotine for that matter.
  Of course the TV is a babysitter. You don't have to interact with it.
  OTOH, while we have the frequently-degenerate local poor (many of whom wouldn't be poor if the females used birth control) there are many poor Mexican and Latin American immigrants who rapidly move out of poverty by working their butts off.
  They are refreshing to hang out with, and I must conclude the GOP bashes them out of envy. They choose not to be wretched. They hustle. Unlike many White folks who are bemoaning the "lack of opportunity", many Latinos (I'm not one, BTW) are out there creating it. I know of one brickyard owner who only hires (legal) Mexicans because they are so productive.
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
54. Re:What a surprise! by drsquare · 2012-04-15 13:26 · Score: 1
  
  Your opinion comes from a middle-class perspective whereby you take everything else for granted. What would you rather have, access to the Library of Alexandria, or to fix your car so you don't lose your job?
  Would you rather read wikipedia or pay for medication? Download ebooks or fix the boiler? Access your bank online, or make sure your electricity isn't cut off?
  You talk about basic survival being met as if it's something easy to get done in the first few days before you get on with the important business of playing around on the Internet, whereas it's something that millions of people struggle with every day, even in developed countries, never mind a post-apocalyptic scenario.
  You betray your class with the things you consider to be 'vital'. The millions of people who've done without the Internet all their lives don't appear to consider it vital. Surely by definition, if Internet access was vital, people without it would be dead. It may be inconvenient, it may cut you off from society, but being without the Internet is most definitely not vital.
55. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 13:41 · Score: 0
  
  You'd be suprised what a single mobile phone does for a poor village in Africa. People can suddenly keep in touch with relatives hundreds of miles away, call for a doctor, conduct business, etc.
56. Re:What a surprise! by drsquare · 2012-04-15 14:03 · Score: 2
  
  All your three points admit that water is more important. What use is your electricity and Internet without water to be distributed and boiled?
  You're still talking from the perspective of someone with access to drinking water. If those water trucks hadn't come, would you be crying out for the Internet and electricity?
57. Re:What a surprise! by Azadre · 2012-04-15 14:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, local state and federal forms.
58. Re:What a surprise! by LynnwoodRooster · 2012-04-15 19:22 · Score: 1
  
  Food, water, shelter, sanitation, basic medical care, transportation, basic education - I think those ALL rate quite a bit higher than "the Internet" in terms of needs. In fact, I dare say the Internet isn't even in a need, based upon travels and living over here in Asia - much of the 3.5 billion or so people living here have, in fact, no Internet access, yet lives seem to work fine - even modern I dare say.
  
  --
  Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
59. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 19:24 · Score: 0
  
  There is also question of relevance for those books.
  In library there is loads of crap. Technology matures and books get out of touch with reality. Books on cars/plumbing/electronics/computers/etc that were there 20-30 years ago are no longer relevant. Heck, why print book these day with all those computers and laptops and PDF readers? Libraries are pretty much outdated.
  And no, Internet can very well be first that every man needs.
  I traveled a lot in my life. First thigns i need in any house(i had some places simply empty), are bed, shower, internet(well, pc wi), washing machine, owen.(in that order)
  Well, bed and shower, are self explanatory. After 2 first comes internet!!!! Cause I don't want to be depressed/bored/information starved. Our mental health is as important as phisical one is. No internet - no calls to the family and just being bored, no basic type of entertainment.(and yes, ohter types of entertainment are availbele, typically require more money than cost for internet on montly basis and provide less value). Even free library is worse choice than internet, as library does not work when you need it(evening time, week ends, time when you most need entertainment), it has loads of outdated crap, and most needed stuff is already on the internet. So, FU, this sh** is important.
60. Re:What a surprise! by AlamedaStone · 2012-04-15 22:46 · Score: 1
  
  Not that I disagree with how useful an internet connection is, but homeless people aren't known for having either facebook pages OR smartphones.
  Welcome to the post-Keynes economy, in a segment Stephen Colbert will likely call, "Better Know You're Homeless".
  
  --
  "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
61. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 00:10 · Score: 0
  
  maybe if her piece of shit cousin would have let her stay on his couch, she would not have been homeless
62. Re:What a surprise! by Medievalist · 2012-04-16 01:30 · Score: 2
  
  First things i need in any house(i had some places simply empty), are bed, shower, internet(well, pc wi), washing machine, owen.(in that order)
  I don't think Owen is going to be pleased to learn how far down the list you've put him.
63. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 01:32 · Score: 0
  
  yes, local libraries still have these things.
64. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 01:38 · Score: 1
  
  After heat, internet is #1 need in the modern age
  No one within a thousand miles of me needs a heater.
  Let's hear you say that after we turn off the sun
65. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 01:46 · Score: 0
  
  He's cute, but useless -- kicks if you try to ride him, and he bites too!
  Who's up for donkey burgers? Fire up the grill!
  
  I'm a poor person
  
  s/grill/george foreman grill
66. Re:What a surprise! by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  "The local library has plenty of current books that are not available free online" Where do you live? My local library may have current fiction books, but their nonfiction books are mostly outdated, and even with the current ones all the information in them was already free online by the time they books were printed.
67. Re:What a surprise! by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  My local library has paper forms, but good luck to someone that isn't smart enough to earn $25 a month to pay for the internet on figuring out those instructions. I consider myself pretty intelligent, but I still need a computer to help me through filling out those crazy forms and checking for errors.
68. Re:What a surprise! by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  Heat isn't needed for survival either. I've lived in the northern US without it.
69. Re:What a surprise! by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:20 · Score: 1
  
  I think that instead of spending money on outdated, often wrong textbooks for public school students, we should instead spend that money on getting at least them internet access.
70. Re:What a surprise! by cayenne8 · 2012-04-16 02:28 · Score: 1
  
  Actually yes it is a big deal. After heat, internet is #1 need in the modern age
  Depends on where you live...down here in New Orleans, Air Conditioning is more important than heat.
  However, I'd tend to rate water, food and shelter as more important than comfort and internet....
  
  --
  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
71. Re:What a surprise! by tehcyder · 2012-04-16 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Where's the -1 wanker moderation option when you need it?
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
72. Re:What a surprise! by rubycodez · 2012-04-16 02:41 · Score: 1
  
  you are truly an ignoramus of the highest order. Your local library is loaded with useful information. every U.S. library I've ever seen constantly acquires new books. the most important thing in any field is learning basic principles. the library is awesome resource for that, especially as most human knowledge is of course NOT on the internet. plumbing? guess what pal, I do my own plumbing, the principles don't change every five years. Learn the basics and you are good for life. Ditto for household wiring, and your library will even have a new enough copy of the national electric code to be useful. you can learn the principle of circuit theory and go beyond being a mere "pc hobbyist" who plugs in boards and ribbons and think they have "built something" books can be borrowed for a couple weeks, over the evenings, weekends and time when you need entertainment.
73. Re:What a surprise! by tehcyder · 2012-04-16 02:44 · Score: 1
  
  EVERY HOUSE should have the option for affordable or free internet, its that important.
  No, it's not.
  
  You need water, food, shelter, clothing, access to medical help and education, the chance to earn some money, ideally some congenial good friends and family, and so on.. You do not need the internet.
  
  Apart from work use, most people could easily do without the internet entirely, your life will not end if you can't view videos of cats on YouTube, or be unable to post updates on your bowel movements for the day on facebook. Thirty years ago, people read newspapers or books, or watched TV to get the information they needed, it's really not difficult.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
74. Re:What a surprise! by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  Have you ever been poor? I have. I've been both "living in the ghetto, but have food, water and shelter" poor - which is the kind of poor most Americans are, since the government gives free food, water and shelter to anyone that is truly poor and chooses to take it. I have also been "not knowing if I'm going to have food and water that day, not knowing if I'm going to have shelter or sleep outside that night" poor.
  
  Internet access was vital to surviving and getting out of the latter situation. Being that kind of poor was quite similar to what he described. I had to find places to get food and water, places that provided shelter, places that would let me take a shower so I could go to a job interview, etc. It was my only way of communicating with friends and associates that weren't within shouting distance, which was important to survival in many ways (emails that said "x place is giving out free food/water till 1" were lifesavers a few times). The internet was the only way I managed to find a job, since by the time it was in the newspaper - if it ever was - it was already too late for me to have a chance.
  
  To be honest, I don't know if it is possible to survive that kind of poor in the US (I have only been poor in the US - all over it, though - and Japan, but even in Japan surviving was much different and could easily be done without internet access) with no internet access whatsoever anymore. All the homeless and that type of poor people I have ever met in the US have had internet access in some form. It's certainly possible to survive the "living in the ghetto on welfare" type of poor, but it's extremely difficult if not impossible to ever get out of that without internet access.
75. Re:What a surprise! by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  He'd probably just be drinking whatever water he could find, not realizing it wasn't safe.
76. Re:What a surprise! by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:56 · Score: 2
  
  Because that's a society that is set up to survive without the internet. The US is not really set up that way anymore.
77. Re:What a surprise! by tehcyder · 2012-04-16 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  Having access to the internet does not in itself teach you how to think critically. You really need a good teacher to give you that skill. The mere availability of information means very little, or else anyone who ever went to a school with a decent dead tree library would be well read and well informed about most things.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
78. Re:What a surprise! by tehcyder · 2012-04-16 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  Im sorry you see the Library of Alexandria at your fingertips to be a mere source of entertainment.
  Yes, because most internet traffic is people downloading Latin and Greek classic texts and engaging in philosophical discussions about neo-Platonism.
  
  Oh wait, no it's not, it's largely porn, TV series and twitterbook posts.
  
  The point is not that it isn't fantastic to have this wealth of information, simply that the vast majority of users never touch it so it's irrelevant if you're saying that the internet is vital to modern life.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
79. Re:What a surprise! by tehcyder · 2012-04-16 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  Books on cars/plumbing/electronics/computers/etc that were there 20-30 years ago are no longer relevant.
  The basics of electronics, plumbing and cars and lots of other things haven't changed that much in 30 years. Even computer science hasn't really.And until you know the basics, the latest cutting edge technology and theories are irrelevant anyway.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
80. Re:What a surprise! by tehcyder · 2012-04-16 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  Try to get a job without an e-mail address.
  You're thinking of jobs that you would apply for.
  
  Yes, it would be odd for someone applying to be a software developer or network engineer not to have an email address. No, it wouldn't be odd if you were applying to flip burgers or clean toilets..
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
81. Re:What a surprise! by Nethead · 2012-04-16 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  Dunno, do you consider a bunch of folks passing traffic via Morse code a packet network?
  
  --
  -- I have a private email server in my basement.
82. Re:What a surprise! by tehcyder · 2012-04-16 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  How does having a smartphone help you beg for food? I think if I saw someone with an iPhone begging I'd tell them to go and sell thieir fucking phone first.
  
  Perhaps I am missing something.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
83. Re:What a surprise! by operagost · 2012-04-16 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  They are refreshing to hang out with, and I must conclude the GOP bashes them out of envy
  
  No, the GOP bashes people who think we should have a policy that claims people must follow a needlessly convoluted immigration process while ignoring the hordes of anonymous people who make dangerous trips through lawless areas in order to sneak in.
  
  I know of one brickyard owner who only hires (legal) Mexicans because they are so productive.
  
  Again, as far as I can tell the GOP doesn't have a problem with legal immigrants. Are there prejudiced folks? Yup, in both parties (and neither).
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
84. Re:What a surprise! by operagost · 2012-04-16 04:38 · Score: 1
  
  Internet is definitely #1, after heat. So I guess it's #2. Except for drinking water... OK, that makes it #3. Except for sewage, which seems to make it #4. Except for refrigeration, which I guess makes it #5. So I guess that once you have a home, with heat, water, sewage, and refrigeration, you can use all the leftover tax dollars to give everyone free internet. It's that important.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
85. Re:What a surprise! by operagost · 2012-04-16 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  Again, we provide public access through our libraries. Internet access in your house still requires relatively expensive equipment and services, and is therefore a luxury. We're already paying for the telephone, water, heat, housing, sewage treatment, and food for the poor. Things like the 2nd amendment are rights that don't require us to take things from others. If the basic execution of a "right" requires that you take from others, it's not a right... at least not what philosophers would call a "natural" one.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
86. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 04:52 · Score: 1
  
  Librarian (law librarian, actually) here.
  Yes, most of the public libraries in our area (metro area in the upper Midwest) still have paper tax forms. However, our courts have - over the past few years - stopped accepting paper filings for many routine issues like divorce, child custody, etc. This is a significant burden for a lot of people I work with on a daily basis. In addition, filings for many types of public assistance are online-only nowadays.
  So, outside of mad max scenarios... yeah, Internet access is essential to being a productive citizen and for ensuring upward mobility in the modern, developed world.
87. Re:What a surprise! by Nethead · 2012-04-16 04:53 · Score: 1
  
  Every state employment office I've ever seen has a bank of winders boxes to hunt for jobs, write resumes, etc. and a staff willing to show you how to use them. The often offer computer classes to get you up to speed on the basic Windows stuff. In Washington State, Microsoft would even offer free on-line classes, with certs, on the Office suite. Not a bad cert for the average job hunter to have.
  
  --
  -- I have a private email server in my basement.
88. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  they have the paper copies of the forms? and all the instructions for those forms for free? yes?
  Yes. I file the old fashion way with paper, pen, and instruction books - at no cost whatsoever.
89. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 05:46 · Score: 0
  
  OK.
  Generalizing about Mexicans: bad
  Generalizing about GOP: good
  Thanks. What is your polticial affiliation so I can bash the fuck out of it?
90. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  If you
  * can't get welfare without going to the gov'ts website
  * can't get your heat turned on or change address without going to a website
  * can't pay your rent or sign up to a homeless shelter without going to a website
  * can't do banking without going to a website.
  * hence can't hold a job because you can't get a bank account.
  * can't do your taxes without access to the website.
  You're *FUCKED*. Modern societies require internet access to use their publically available services. If you get cut off you're effectively no better than a stray animal.
  If not now, wait another 4 years.
91. Re:What a surprise! by manaway · 2012-04-16 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  First - the internet doesn't immediately rank as a survival item. Not even close. BUT I agree with your point that it should be very close after satisfying those needs.
  For varying ranges of "close." ;D
  
  And to those in power that's a dangerous thing. And until we fix the system (not likely any time soon) you will see them clamp down and clamp down hard on anything they consider a threat to their nice cushy positions.
  If history is an indication, the "fix" has no ending but is instead immersing onself in an ongoing struggle. The greedy rich never stop being greedy; oh they miss opportunities once in a while but they don't give up their longterm self-interests. Just as the poor, despite setbacks, continue to make life better, and eventually more fair, for their family, friends, and neighbors.
92. Re:What a surprise! by JosephTX · 2012-04-16 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  My issue is with KIDS--most of whom need internet access more than their parents--being denied that access. And you can't exactly expect every kid to get to the library on his own, especially not a kid who lives in a poor neighborhood, where libraries aren't known for being located in. Telecommunications services are nowhere near as expensive in the rest of the world, since most other developed countries still have PUBLIC infrastructures. You can thank Congress for paying $70/month for that Comcast connection that rarely reaches the advertised download speeds, since Comcast (along with AT&T, Verizon, and Time Warner) took that public property away from you in the first place 15 years ago; so it seems kind of wrong to say that you'd be taking anything from them.
  In fact, while Comcast and AT&T actively campaign against public telecommunications and net neutrality in the US "because it's socializing our lines", they were some of the companies campaigning FOR the socialization of telecommunications in the UK, since they weren't the ones holding local monopolies there. And once the lines went public, the cost of services dropped dramatically.
  But while we're on the subject of "taking" from others, I'm also one of those crazy people who believes we should have publicly-funded roads, schools, airports, and other things (also universal health care) that involve "taking" money from the rich. But I have no problem with that, since CEOs don't actually work 400x harder than their employees despite making 400x their employees in this country.
93. Re:What a surprise! by Haoie · 2012-04-16 09:36 · Score: 1
  
  Just another good reason why, internet or not, you should continue to frequent your local library!
  
  --
  If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.
94. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 11:34 · Score: 0
  
  1) When you're choosing between the light bill and the water bill, $60 is still a sizeable amount of money. Finding $200 for a laptop? Have you been poor?
  4) It costs money to go downtown, either in gasoline or transit fare
  6) It costs money to go to the library, again with the transit fare and gasoline. Also, no, every time I've been to the library, the computers are all taken by children and the homeless, and have a time limit. You don't finish what you have to accomplish in the hour allotted? Too bad, you just wasted your time.
  Here, transit is 1.25 a trip, which makes it 2.50 per round trip. This is if you can find a route to your library, and if you're poor, transit time + library might be more time than you have available in your day. If the schedule is unreliable, this further restricts the time available and you might be using that $2.50 for what amounts to very little, and when you're poor every penny counts.
95. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 11:56 · Score: 0
  
  They can afford less but this does not nec. match whether they can/will go out of their way for a luxury item. Years ago (2000) I went to visit my family who were living in a different state to me. When I visited my sister, who was living in a 'poor' neighbourhood, one of my brothers pointed out that almost every house in the neighbourhood had Pay TV installed (we could see the connections to the houses). Yet, in his middle-class neighbourhood most people didn't have pay tv. When I quizzed my sister on it, it had to do with the 'poorer' people in the neighbourhood having an impression that 'everyone' had Pay TV, so they had to get it themselves. (ie they were trying to be like those richer than themselves). So, often poor people will skip on necessities in order to get a luxury item.
96. Re:What a surprise! by dontclapthrowmoney · 2012-04-16 15:07 · Score: 1
  
  I traveled a lot in my life. First thigns i need in any house(i had some places simply empty), are bed, shower, internet(well, pc wi), washing machine, owen.(in that order)
  So... does your wife know about Owen?
97. Re:What a surprise! by Hordeking · 2012-04-16 18:30 · Score: 1
  
  My local library has paper forms, but good luck to someone that isn't smart enough to earn $25 a month to pay for the internet on figuring out those instructions. I consider myself pretty intelligent, but I still need a computer to help me through filling out those crazy forms and checking for errors.
  That's why you get on the internet at the library and do your taxes there. Duh.
  
  --
  Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
98. Re:What a surprise! by nhat11 · 2012-04-17 00:27 · Score: 0
  
  Yes because people who don't have internet isn't surviving right now.... o wait...
99. Re:What a surprise! by ananthap · 2012-04-17 00:39 · Score: 1
  
  Get a room in a house with a floor.
  With a closed, private (not common) area for your daily toilet routines.
  And running water.
  And electricity
  HOT running water.
  And heat.
  And a fridge.
  Put food in fridge.
  Get a phone. (Today's version of the internet, I suppose.)
100. Re:What a surprise! by operagost · 2012-04-17 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  What is "working harder"? More hours? More lifting? Does time spent researching and learning count? Why does our President make five times the salary of the average family? Does he work five times harder than an office assistant that works 50 hours a week? How about investors? They may not work 50 hours a week, but they put large amounts of money at risk. What is risk worth? If you have the Marxist idea that only physical labor has value, I'm not sure why you're here.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
101. Re:What a surprise! by sourcerror · 2012-04-18 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe in the US it's so, but not where I live.
102. Re:What a surprise! by peawormsworth · 2012-04-24 20:05 · Score: 1
  
  My internet went down a couple days ago and I couldnt call the ISP because my phone uses VOIP. So I went to the library to use their internet to make my call. The library was filled with people on the computers and everyone had a laptop sitting at the desks with power. I couldnt get a seat... I had to wait. Now there were other people in the library looking at books and reading... but it was about 50/50. So I would guess that a large portion of those who frequent the library are there because they do not have internet at home and they are not there to check out books.
That can't be right by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2012-04-15 05:44 · Score: 2

If that's true, then who's misspelling the captions on all those cat pictures?
1. Re:That can't be right by Monkey-Man2000 · 2012-04-15 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  If that's true, then who's misspelling the captions on all those cat pictures?
  Your friendly neighborhood dog I suppose?
  
  --
  This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
2. Re:That can't be right by jpate · 2012-04-15 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  If that's true, then who's misspelling the captions on all those cat pictures?
  People who are smarter than 20% of Americans :-D
No internet at home? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 05:45 · Score: 1

How do these people get their pornography? Surely, they don't enjoy the librarians tutting at them when they use the free library computers to consume media of naked people.
1. Re:No internet at home? by uncanny · 2012-04-15 05:54 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Ever wonder why poor people have so babies?
2. Re:No internet at home? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:02 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  No, but I wonder why dumb people so many words.
3. Re:No internet at home? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:09 · Score: 0
  
  Because babies has the words. Like cat has cheezburger.
4. Re:No internet at home? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:10 · Score: 0
  
  "Hey girl, how baby do you wanna have?"
  "Sooooo baby!"
5. Re:No internet at home? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:39 · Score: 0
  
  so many babies, or such babies? 50% of people...are by definition below average intelligence.
6. Re:No internet at home? by Chrisq · 2012-04-15 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  so many babies, or such babies? 50% of people...are by definition below average intelligence.
  Possibly more. 50% assumes a perfect normal distribution. This may not be the case.
7. Re:No internet at home? by roman_mir · 2012-04-15 07:54 · Score: 1
  
  50 babies? I wonder if they have their livers with some fava beans and a nice Chianti?
  
  --
  You can't handle the truth.
8. Re:No internet at home? by realityimpaired · 2012-04-15 09:53 · Score: 0
  
  Somebody who writes a site to MSIE 4.0 or higher but isn't capable of having it render properly under Chrome or Firefox (and then has the gall to suggest I should download IE 4 or some other "modern" browser) isn't exactly the kind of person I'd take as an authority on intelligence distribution....
  Besides which, if IQ is calibrated properly, then it will have a normal distribution. That's why they recalibrate IQ tests every few years. While there will be aberrations on either side of the bell curve, it will, by definition, follow a normal distribution. That's also why most reputable IQ tests give a percentile, rather than a numerical value. (and I work with somebody who's easily +3 standard deviations, so can attest to the "aberrations" on either side of the distribution)
9. Re:No internet at home? by colinrichardday · 2012-04-15 10:38 · Score: 1
  
  The site was made in 2002; they probably weren't worried about Chrome. Also, what do you mean by calibrated "properly"? Should IQ be normally distributed?
10. Re:No internet at home? by Billly+Gates · 2012-04-15 15:01 · Score: 1
  
  And wrong you are realityimpaired!
  Time to get with the program.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
11. Re:No internet at home? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Because they can collect more at tax filing time than they pay in, plus free health care, WIC, etc?
I CAN HAZ THE INTERNET by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 05:49 · Score: -1

YOURS TRULY
JOHN
Botnet hosts by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 05:50 · Score: 0

Yay, botnet hosts who can't get the botnet clients because they're not using the means to do so. Need more people like them :)
50% of people... by hsthompson69 · 2012-04-15 05:50 · Score: 2

...are by definition below average intelligence.
Why would we think that 100% of people would be able to use the internet on their own? Or get a higher education for that matter?
1. Re:50% of people... by vlm · 2012-04-15 06:02 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  No, the definition is 50% are below median. The median doesn't necessarily have to equal the average, although for a typical bell curve like intelligence it usually is pretty close.
  Its not terribly hard to find a distribution where median and mean are not the same. Stereotypical heartbeat rate in a morgue. Video game level/skill/score.
  The almost blindingly obvious reason 1/5 of the population doesn't use the net is its almost impossible and fairly pointless if you're functionally illiterate. Which is probably a good description of about 1/5 the population. I had a former boss who "bragged" about not reading a book since high school... punchline was he had gray hair. Probably not a amazon/kindle customer, etc.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
2. Re:50% of people... by pablomme · 2012-04-15 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  50% of people...
  ...are by definition below average intelligence.
  True of the median, not of the mean. If you measure intelligence by IQ, which is designed so that the mean is 100 and the standard deviation is 15, it is perfectly possible that over 50% of the population scores above the mean. Or below it.
  
  --
  The state you are in while your HEAD is detached... - wait, what?
3. Re:50% of people... by Trepidity · 2012-04-15 06:18 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That hypothesis doesn't explain why 94% of people age 18-29 use the internet, unless intelligence and/or literacy rates have massively increased.
  A simpler hypothesis is that old people don't use the internet, and young people do, and other factors are minimal.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
4. Re:50% of people... by toejam13 · 2012-04-15 06:35 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I agree. I think that the huge influx of laypersons onto the Internet has been both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, having more people of all social, economic and education backgrounds has encouraged a more rounded environment. It has allowed websites to flourish which otherwise may have been little more than a niche sites back when it was mostly university geeks and researchers. But on the other, we have a subset of people who are more open to scams, who place a larger burden on support resources and who are unable to deal with issues such as compromised computers infected with Trojan horses.
  But the bigger and darker issue is that the Internet is much more about user feedback than at any time before. It is a place where every voice and opinion can receive an equal audience. What happens when you have millions of uneducated riff-raff joining in the conversation, especially when the topic is political in nature? It often drags the quality of the conversation down. You end up with people parroting their worldviews rather than thinking about the subject at hand. Unless that environment is heavily moderated, it will end up sullied.
  As to the groups of people who are underrepresented on the Internet, I'm relieved that is the case. While some of them may begin to change their worldviews from being exposed to more ideas, I think the benefit to society would be greatly outweighed by the damage such people would cause. But the genie is already out of the bottle. Costs will continue to drop and more services will simply require Internet access in order to procure them. Internet penetration will continue to climb. I think that it is inevitable that everyone will have access, and we as a society will just have to adapt to it, for better or worse.
5. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:49 · Score: 0
  
  What surprising is the number who don't think they could use it on their own. That sort of wisdom is lacking in so many (who ignore the fact and then use the intarwebs any way.) Given the laws being passed to protect people on the webs for those comparatively 'early' adopters by completely clueless law makers, lord help us when this '63% of households under $30,000' need protecting too.
6. Re:50% of people... by Hatta · 2012-04-15 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  The almost blindingly obvious reason 1/5 of the population doesn't use the net is its almost impossible and fairly pointless if you're functionally illiterate.
  Wait, you're telling me 1/5 of the internet using population isn't functionally illiterate?
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
7. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 07:07 · Score: 0
  
  Yahoo! Answer will make you hope it's just 20%.
8. Re:50% of people... by tomhath · 2012-04-15 08:09 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I prefer Miss South Carolina's explaination of why 20% of Americans aren't on the internet:
  “I personally believe, that U.S. Americans, are unable to do so, because uh, some, people out there, in our nation don’t have computers. and uh...I believe that our education like such as in South Africa, and the Iraq, everywhere like such as...and, I believe they should uh, our education over here, in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, for us.”
9. Re:50% of people... by MaskedSlacker · 2012-04-15 08:14 · Score: 2
  
  The distribution of IQ is defined (in modern tests anyway) as a normal distribution--the median is 100 w/ a sd of 15, and the median is equal to the mean. It is not even slightly possible to have over 50% on either side of the mean.
10. Re:50% of people... by clang_jangle · 2012-04-15 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Nonsense, many seniors are online and many kids are not. It's more an issue of education and class than age. We have a lot of people of all ages in the US who couldn't read a book or use a computer if their lives depended upon it.
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
11. Re:50% of people... by Trepidity · 2012-04-15 08:19 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  That's not what the statistics in the linked report show; they show a much bigger age difference than an education or class difference. 41% of people 65+ are online, whereas 94% of people 18-29 are online, a difference that completely swamps the other factors.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
12. Re:50% of people... by clang_jangle · 2012-04-15 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  When you can report that all the many studies done on this subject agree, you might actually have something. There are so many studies whose results contradict each other every day. This is why we need to learn to think critically, and not just swallow every bit of "information" we get from some "study". Do you think this particular study actually surveyed evey household in the US? :)
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
13. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 09:13 · Score: 0
  
  50% of people are by definition below average intelligence.
  s/average/median/
  It is perfectly possible (although not very likely) for 99% to be above/below average.
14. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 09:35 · Score: 0
  
  Care to point out any studies that contradict this one? Or are you just engaging in "cargo cult" critical thinking because someone told you it's a cool thing to do?
15. Re:50% of people... by vlm · 2012-04-15 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  Ask an old functionally illiterate guy like my long ex boss, if he reads books and he's all "f no". He did read a book once while 18 in high school, but he says "no"
  I do not think its possible to go thru high school in the 00s 10s and not use the internet. Ask a 19 year old supermarket cashier who hasn't used the internet since copying and pasting a wikipedia article into a high school book report, and she'll say "yes" because it was recent.
  Also I think functional illiteracy is in strong decline in the US, crazy as that opinion probably sounds. "when I was a kid" it was perfectly acceptable to go thru life without reading anything, especially in the lower social classes. That does not work in the era of facebook and texting.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
16. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 10:10 · Score: 0
  
  MY GOD that's one smart lady. Looks AND brains?? My heart is now taken.
17. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 10:53 · Score: 0
  
  Dammit... posting to undue errant "Troll" mod.
18. Re:50% of people... by colinrichardday · 2012-04-15 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  What is the distribution of reported percentages of seniors using the internet? Of 18-29 year olds?
19. Re:50% of people... by colinrichardday · 2012-04-15 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  Do you have a link to this?
20. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 11:15 · Score: 0
  
  No, 50% of people are below average. The quote doesn't state whether 'average' is supposed to be 'arithmetic mean', 'geometric mean' or 'median' or 'mode', but in context, it's clearly referring to the 'median'.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
  It's fine to be pedantic at times if you're right, but being pedantic and wrong is just sad.
21. Re:50% of people... by colinrichardday · 2012-04-15 11:34 · Score: 1
  
  But the GP said that we might not have average and median intelligence coincide, which is different from having average and median IQ scores coincide.
22. Re:50% of people... by clang_jangle · 2012-04-15 13:19 · Score: 1
  
  That depends upon whom you ask. I never claimed to be the One True Source with Definitive Numbers, I was simply questioning the person who essentially did make that claim.
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
23. Re:50% of people... by tomhath · 2012-04-15 13:25 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, she said map, not Internet. But her answer is just as true.
24. Re:50% of people... by colinrichardday · 2012-04-15 14:23 · Score: 1
  
  That depends upon whom you ask.
  This, and some of what you said in your previous leads me to believe that you were aware of multiple studies on this topic (of course, you might have just meant that there were conflicting studies in general). This is why I asked for a distribution. Did one study put the percentage of 18-29 years at 94%, and another at 89%, and yet a third at 95%?
25. Re:50% of people... by colinrichardday · 2012-04-15 14:28 · Score: 1
  
  I saw the link. Strictly speaking, it was Miss Teen South Carolina.
26. Re:50% of people... by clang_jangle · 2012-04-15 20:07 · Score: 1
  
  Those are your questions, not mine. Why must you insist others spoon-feed you? Where is your initiative? You are simply willfully ignorant, and are resistant to finding answers.
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
27. Re:50% of people... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  No, the definition is 50% are below median.
  Median is average, so is mean, even mode is technically an average. hsthompson should likely have specified, however, that by average he meant median as most people assume average means mean.
elderly are a large portion of it by Trepidity · 2012-04-15 05:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

If you remove the single largest factor for non-adoption (age), the rates are generally pretty high, and the other factors mentioned make less difference. That's why I wish these surveys focused more on multi-factor analysis instead of these easy-to-do but less-useful analyses where you just pull out single factors. Sure, people with lower incomes are less likely to be online, and people with lower educational attainment are less likely to be online, but those two factors also correlate strongly, and matter differently for different age cohorts. Which factors have independent effects after controlling for the others? That's the kind of analysis that would be more helpful...
So yes, 22% of Americans don't use the internet. But a large proportion of those are over 65: in that age group, 69% of people don't use the internet. That's just generational change.
If we look at young people, age 18-29, a full 94% use the internet. There is probably some education/income effect in there, but a much weaker one: only 6% of total young people, even including the poorest and least educated in the statistics, don't use the internet.
Note also that educational attainment isn't separate from the age effect, because going to college used to be less common in my grandfather's generation than it is today, so there are some confounds baked into those numbers, too.
In short: Where are the goddamn crosstabs?!?

--
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
1. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:08 · Score: 0
  
  ...so there are some confounds baked into those numbers, too.
  Pet peeve of mine: "confound" is not a noun!!!
2. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by OzPeter · 2012-04-15 06:14 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  If you remove the single largest factor for non-adoption (age), the rates are generally pretty high
  so you're suggesting Logan's Run as a solution to improving the rate of internet usage?
  
  Who are you? some kinda liberal/commie/lefty who embraces Obamacare and is just itching for the death panels to get up and running?
  
  --
  I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
3. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  Of course that is true, but at least he knows how to form plurals and possessives. I'm prepared to forgive a lot for that.
4. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by Trepidity · 2012-04-15 06:23 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Logan's Run is such a panacea, really. Not only would it increase internet adoption, but imagine the other statistical benefits: It'd raise our percentage of college graduates, increase the average physical fitness of both men and women, improve our per-capita GDP, and even decrease cancer rates.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
5. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by OzPeter · 2012-04-15 06:27 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Logan's Run is such a panacea, really. Not only would it increase internet adoption, but imagine the other statistical benefits: It'd raise our percentage of college graduates, increase the average physical fitness of both men and women, improve our per-capita GDP, and even decrease cancer rates.
  Damn you for taking my trolling post and converting it into a reasonable argument!
  
  --
  I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
6. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  Yup, bingo. I might add though that I'm in a modest income old apartment building with a lot of seniors. (I'm not far from qualifying myself.) I've been here over a decade; I know my neighbors pretty well. Near as I can figure, only one senior hasn't bothered with the net.
  It's a combination of email and pretty much everything being "check our website" now that made the conversion in the last five years. That said, literacy rate is pretty high here. In other sections of the country that may be a factor.
  The other missing crosstab, is how many of these people 'not on net' use it over a phone, and didn't realize that qualified? The cheapest prepaid Nokia has a web browser.
7. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by jimbrooking · 2012-04-15 06:55 · Score: 2
  
  You might want to watch the stereotyping. I'm the (volunteer) webmaster for a fairly affluent community of 2,000 or so mostly retired people. We require registration for our website to keep community information away from outsiders like Google and spammers. I personally approve each registration after verifying residence status. At the moment we have about half our community registered; around 250 are on the site weekly, another 100 or so lees frequently, and another 200 occasionally. My site does make provisions for vision-impaired people, but is pretty attractive for all. It's dynamic (changes a few times a week), and has lots of AJAX pages like directory lookups, bulletin board search etc.. We do have our share of problems, many related to lack of computer skills and knowledge, e.g., when users "can't login" or "can't find xyz page". With patience and some hand-holding, our users mostly find what they want with little hassle. So I submit that at least from my N=1 sample, you might find the computer usage among older demographic follows income and education as much as age. Oh - I'll be 73 in July.
8. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 08:54 · Score: 0
  
  Logan's Run is such a panacea, really
  
  Although I would increase the termination age to 50 or 55 years. So society gets the maximum value from a person as an employee, consumer, grandparent without the costs of old-age and generational stagnation; like in the 1920s.
  Why develop medicines that make old-age last longer? Those medicines lengthen the unproductive portion of our lives. Which causes the overall burden of welfare to increase while reducing its effectiveness (education, technological standard of living).
9. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by History's+Coming+To · 2012-04-15 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  Nope. I've got the cheapest prepaid nokia, it doesn't even have "data capability" according to nokia, if you want to use it to connect to the internet you need an old microphone/speaker based modem and a computer with a serial port.
  
  --
  Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
10. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by gmhowell · 2012-04-15 10:38 · Score: 1
  
  Logan's Run is such a panacea, really. Not only would it increase internet adoption, but imagine the other statistical benefits: It'd raise our percentage of college graduates, increase the average physical fitness of both men and women, improve our per-capita GDP, and even decrease cancer rates.
  Damn you for taking my trolling post and converting it into a reasonable argument!
  You did make a very modest proposal.
  
  --
  Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
11. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by gmhowell · 2012-04-15 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  So I submit that at least from my N=1 sample...
  You know, you could have put that first so that we could ignore everything else in that post.
  
  --
  Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
12. Re:elderly are a large portion of it by Formalin · 2012-04-15 17:15 · Score: 1
  
  The cheapest prepaid nokias here (since.. I don't know, 10 years I'd think) have web browsers. Maybe no 3G data (only GPRS), but they are capable.
  Now, the providers like to charge insanity like 5 cents a kB on prepaid, though. That's the problem, not the phone.
Hope they mentioned population density... by Nutria · 2012-04-15 05:57 · Score: 3, Informative

I've got family that live out in the country, and their dial-up service was so slow and noisy that they could only reach 14.4Kbps for 5 minutes at a time. Naturally they dropped service and haven't tried it since.

--
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
1. Re:Hope they mentioned population density... by Salgak1 · 2012-04-15 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. Income is not the only determinant: geography is a major factor. And in less-developed areas, broadband capability disappears quickly as you depart the city or town limits. As a personal example, I spent several years living in a small town in West Virginia. We actually checked with the local broadband provider BEFORE we signed an agreement to buy: 2 of the homes we preferred were beyond range of the local provider: our only other choices were dial-up or Satellite. Both houses were within 2 miles of the town border. . . .
2. Re:Hope they mentioned population density... by clang_jangle · 2012-04-15 08:34 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, the crap quality phone lines are a huge issue for those of us in outlying areas without broadband options. I relocated to such an area last December, and my average connection speed hovers between 1.5 and 5.2 kbps. It's painful, and I can see how the average person simply wouldn't bother. Using a smartphone isn't much better when you're more than 4 miles from the nearest tower, either. AT&T took all that tax money 2 or 3 years ago to "rollout broadband to rural residents", but they haven't done a damned thing about the problem. Our phone lines are probably the same ones they installed in the early 60s.
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
3. Re:Hope they mentioned population density... by History's+Coming+To · 2012-04-15 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed. I'm in the Scottish Highlands and we get anything from 15 to 128Kb/s. Ironically that's fine, because I work in web programming so it's mostly just text files and low res images, but for a "normal" person expecting to watch videos and read your average Flash-filled website it's going to be frustrating at best. (And before anyone suggests tethering a mobile, there's no mobile reception at all)
  
  --
  Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
TV should be good enough for poor people by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 05:57 · Score: 0

TV is for poorer, less educated people. The internet is for richer, higher educated people. Thought everyone knew that.
1. Re:TV should be good enough for poor people by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:22 · Score: 0
  
  I do not own a television but I sometimes watch a few TV shows via the Internet. What assumptions will you make about my levels of education and affluence?
Who needs the damn internet? by fustakrakich · 2012-04-15 06:00 · Score: 2

I get all the gossip I need from my neighbors, bartenders, and hair stylist

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
1. Re:Who needs the damn internet? by aix+tom · 2012-04-15 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  Quite the service from your bartender to post your opinions, too. ;-P
2. Re:Who needs the damn internet? by Grygus · 2012-04-15 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  Facebook is part of the Internet.
Upward mobility how? by tepples · 2012-04-15 06:03 · Score: 1, Interesting

Anonymous Coward wrote:

TV is for poorer, less educated people.
But then how are less educated people supposed to become more educated? NBC, ABC, CBS/CW, and My/Fox haven't been doing a lot of good in that respect IMO.
1. Re:Upward mobility how? by vlm · 2012-04-15 06:11 · Score: 2
  
  Anonymous Coward wrote:
  
  TV is for poorer, less educated people.
  But then how are less educated people supposed to become more educated? NBC, ABC, CBS/CW, and My/Fox haven't been doing a lot of good in that respect IMO.
  They're supposed to get federal government guaranteed loans for the maximum possible amount to attend training schools of course. Educational-industrial complex profit maximizing, etc.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Television vs Internet by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:16 · Score: 0

I know a few people who make under 30k a year. They all pay $100/mo for cable TV and complain they cannot afford paying for the Internet.
Priorities.
1. Re:Television vs Internet by rubycodez · 2012-04-15 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  that's funny, since in most the USA you can get basic cable plus internet for under $100 a month. they should drop some premium channels. then hook a $50 or less piece of shit PC running linux or bsd to the net. you remind me of the photo of our "poor" people (welfare queens) flocking Michele Obama with their iphones and $200+ footwear.
2. Re:Television vs Internet by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 11:14 · Score: 0
  
  Don't forget all those poor people who give 10% to their church.
3. Re:Television vs Internet by rubycodez · 2012-04-15 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  yeah, amazing multi-billion dollar art collection the Roman Catholic Church has built by centuries of contributions of the poor. probably augmented by some plundering from things like the crusades, too, or assets seized from "heretics".
4. Re:Television vs Internet by Formalin · 2012-04-15 17:35 · Score: 1
  
  I seem to recall the Vatican stumbling upon a decent amount of gold during WWII, also.
Also church goers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:25 · Score: 0

Perhaps they should just ask God and Jesus for internet access.?
Or maybe instead of spending all that time in church and reading the bible, they could be trying to get an education instead of studying about the Great Flood and first rainbow.
The poor in the USA, especially the south are the most uneducated bunch of religious, shit-kickers I've ever known. They truly believe the logical fallacy: "He's poor therefore wise." Yet insist in shoving money at TV preachers.
If you don't believe me, just check the demographics for Mississippi.
Time to create an "Eldernet" for the elderly ?? by dryriver · 2012-04-15 06:31 · Score: 1

Given that most of the people who are "permanently offline" are people aged 65 or over, who are simply too old the learn the ins & outs of the often times complex & confounding interwebs, maybe there should be a project to create a kind of "Eldernet" for older people? This would be an alternative, simplified internet with bigger text & images, text-to-speech functionality (for those who are vision impaired), much simpler navigation & search (maybe voice-commands like "how much does a lawnchair cost at the local Walmart" or "take me to the Bank of America customer services page"). Also, crucially, no advertising, pop-up windows, and other things that can clutter up the screen and make for mental confusion would be allowed. In short: A sort of easy-to-use Fisher-Price version of the Internet & browser (& maybe OS too), for those too old to deal with the complexity and nagging problems of, say, a Windows 8 Laptop running IE or Firefox. Another nice idea would be to offer free internet-access to people past retirement age, paired with elderly-user-friendly "Eldernet" functionality. It might make the world a more civilized place for all involved...

--
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
1. Re:Time to create an "Eldernet" for the elderly ?? by Salgak1 · 2012-04-15 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  The net is the net. What you think of as the "Eldernet" should really be a simplified client/OS aimed at Seniors. Think about what Microsoft tried for, and utterly failed at, with MS Bob.. Someone TRIED doing this on an all-in-one-platform with the "Telkin PC for Seniors", but failed on both a UI and a cost perspective. It was way too expensive for what it delivered, and both lacked essential functionality AND defacto "talked down" to its' users. . . . .
2. Re:Time to create an "Eldernet" for the elderly ?? by dryriver · 2012-04-15 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  The "Eldernet" I had in mind would make use of existing Internet infrastructure. An "Eldernet" certified website, however, would be visually simple, with larger text, easy to understand, and easier to get around (think site-navigation) than a regular webpage. A simplified browser/PC UI on its own wouldn't quite do the trick. The websites themselves would have to be designed for older people as well. The closest thing I've seen to a "Older User Friendly" computer is the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1" Android tablet. I've seen older users (aged 70 and above) get along pretty OK with it once the tablet is configured - email client and basic apps are setup and so forth - and the older person using it has had a few hours of basic instruction on how to get things done with it. Its definitely much, much easier to use than a typical Windows PC. The Samsung has a universal "back button" in the bottom-left corner of the screen, that you can simply hammer if you get lost in an application somehow. In 99% of cases, this will throw you back to a clean start screen, from where the task you want to carry out can be re-attempted from scratch.
  
  --
  Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
3. Re:Time to create an "Eldernet" for the elderly ?? by clang_jangle · 2012-04-15 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe you can sell the concept to what's left of AOL.
  
  --
  Caveat Utilitor
4. Re:Time to create an "Eldernet" for the elderly ?? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  Would it not be easier to simply wait 20 years?
5. Re:Time to create an "Eldernet" for the elderly ?? by fredgiblet · 2012-04-15 14:29 · Score: 1
  
  It's an interesting idea. The problem is the "no advertising" since that's where most companies make their money. So you're asking them to spend more money making and maintaining a second website that they will make less money off of. Even sites that don't make their money off of advertising (like say banking) would still be needing to maintain 2 seperate sites or at the very least dumb down one site.
6. Re:Time to create an "Eldernet" for the elderly ?? by Reservoir+Penguin · 2012-04-16 04:55 · Score: 1
  
  I agree, the elderly need something like Hypertext Vector Fidonet.
  
  --
  US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
spelling error by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:32 · Score: 0

The noun 'Internet' is capitalized. It appears in this article both with a lower case 'i' and a capital, so I guess the author wasn't sure....
such problems. by carpefishus · 2012-04-15 06:32 · Score: 1

first world problem.

--
Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
1. Re:such problems. by fredgiblet · 2012-04-15 14:25 · Score: 1
  
  Whenever I see people post that I want to punch them in the face.
2. Re:such problems. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-16 03:00 · Score: 0
  
  Whenever I see people post that I want to punch them in the face.
  Now *that's* a first world problem.
  
  <ducks>
Smartphones? by nurb432 · 2012-04-15 06:34 · Score: 1

Were they included? Most everyone i know in ALL economic segments have one.. and those are "online".

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
1. Re:Smartphones? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 07:02 · Score: 0
  
  Were they included? Most everyone i know in ALL economic segments have one.. and those are "online".
  You do not know the old or the indigent.
2. Re:Smartphones? by the+eric+conspiracy · 2012-04-15 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  You have a very narrow social group. The same Pew survey found smartphone penetration is only about 35% of the population.
3. Re:Smartphones? by nurb432 · 2012-04-15 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  They are wrong. My group spans from people that make millions, to people on disability.
  
  --
  ---- Booth was a patriot ----
Poor does exist in the US by nurb432 · 2012-04-15 06:35 · Score: 1

Just head to any major city and start looking for the homeless camps. It does exist.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
1. Re:Poor does exist in the US by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 06:51 · Score: 0
  
  Homelessness is a complicated issue. 39% of homeless have mental health issues. Even if you gave them a food, money, a computer, and weren't addicts they wouldn't be able to live normally anyway.
  http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/526/homeless-facts.html
  If you just look at "normal" poor people in the US many of them have cable, cellphones, etc.
2. Re:Poor does exist in the US by s0nicfreak · 2012-04-16 02:59 · Score: 2
  
  Homeless doesn't necessarily mean poor, and poor certainly doesn't necessarily mean homeless. Also, homeless people may not have internet access in their homes (since they don't have one) but they often do have access.
Internet access has passed cable TV in the US by Animats · 2012-04-15 07:05 · Score: 2

Only 44% of the residences which can get cable TV actually buy it. In comparison, 68% of US households have broadband access. (3% are still on dialup.) That's impressive reach for an industry that barely existed a decade ago.
Bear in mind that a significant fraction of the US population barely reads. 14% of the US adult population has "below basic literacy skills." They are not likely to find a computer very useful. Another 15% of Internet penetration and everyone who can read will be connected.
Measured by a different study, the most connected major countries are at 80%, +- 2%. The US and Japan are at 78%, Germany is at 80%, Korea is at 81%, and the UK is at 82%.
Poor People Tend To Be Idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 07:06 · Score: 0

Poor people are more likely to be idiots (why else would they remain poor and not figure out how to make money).
Idiots tend not to want to use the Internet as much (who wants to sit at a computer for fun? that's nerd stuff)
Case closed.
1. Re:Poor People Tend To Be Idiots by Chrisq · 2012-04-15 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  Poor people are more likely to be idiots (why else would they remain poor and not figure out how to make money).
  Idiots tend not to want to use the Internet as much (who wants to sit at a computer for fun? that's nerd stuff)
  Case closed.
  Not necessarily. They could be illegals, have chronic health problems, or not be interested in earning money (people who work long term for the Peace corps medical teams)
2. Re:Poor People Tend To Be Idiots by fredgiblet · 2012-04-15 14:23 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Idiots tend not to want to use the Internet as much
  You must be going to a different Internet than I have been.
In other breaking news... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 07:27 · Score: 0

The sky is blue, the moon is the major driving force behind the tides, and Slashdot makes car analogies.
Ignorance is a barrier to.. by Brickwall · 2012-04-15 07:28 · Score: 0

I not no how to uze internets, but me has gun and can drive the car to beer store.

--
What was once true, is no longer so
They have internet... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 09:02 · Score: 0

All the state/federal check recipeints that I know have internet if they want it and haven't worked a day in their lives, hell they are even getting free cell phones
698 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 09:55 · Score: 0

$698 is what someone on SSI (NOT SSDI) receives in one month. When 50 dollars is 7% of monthly income, those prices are out there.
1. Re:698 by soundguy · 2012-04-15 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  1 - Use the library.
  2 - Get some roommates. Divide price by number of roommates
  3 - Service plus wifi router with antenna on roof. Divide price by number of neighbors willing to split the cost. (the implication is that your neighbors are fairly close and not rich. Anyone on SSI is probably not living in Beverly Hills or Manhattan)
  
  --
  Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
2. Re:698 by hackwrench · 2012-04-15 11:22 · Score: 1
  
  I live in New Castle,IN, rent a room, not an apartent or house, though there was a point where I was on section 8 in an apartment. I don't drive and Medicaid pays for some services I get through Meridian Services which includes grocery shopping trips. I get internet access through Metronet. I go to food pantries to stretch my food dollar. Lifeline pays for my cell phone. With those caveats it's possible to get internet access and a used computer while only gettiing SSI, though the situation is unique.
3. Re:698 by anagama · 2012-04-15 11:30 · Score: 1
  
  I think that's the where the idea of using a cheap laptop and free public wifi has its best application -- 7% of income for four months (assuming $200 price) and nothing thereafter.
  But you are right -- at some point a person is so poor, even bus fare to the library to use a public terminal would be a burden. But that doesn't change the fact that for the vast majority of people, having net access is not such a financial hit as to be impossible to manage -- for most people who don't have net access, it is an issue of not seeing the internet as valuable to them personally. As a random example, I don't subscribe to Newsweek because it isn't valuable to me. My lack of interest has nothing to do with cost and a lot to do with the fact that the same material is available online in a less stale format. On the other hand, I do subscribe to National Geographic, even though their material is also online, because I like it and it has value to me over and above the digital experience.
  Anyway, at this point in time, I suspect that a good portion of the people without network access of some kind, don't have it because they don't value it, not because it is beyond reach financially.
  
  --
  What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
4. Re:698 by Reservoir+Penguin · 2012-04-16 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  I'm seriously considering giving you a pity fuck.
  
  --
  US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Useless statistics by loufoque · 2012-04-15 10:31 · Score: 0

In the US, most households earn between $30,000 and $75,000 and most people have degrees between high school diploma and phd thesis.
All the statistics given in the summary about irrelevant minorities.
Mr. Bauerlein would like a word with you by colinrichardday · 2012-04-15 10:58 · Score: 1

http://www.amazon.com/The-Dumbest-Generation-n/dp/B001JQ383K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1334530582&sr=8-2
Birth Control by bratwiz · 2012-04-15 14:34 · Score: 1

>> One in five of those who are not online today think that they just don’t know enough about technology to use the Internet on their own.'"
Curious, in that you can make the same statement regarding genitalia and birth control.
Free Internet Service Providers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-15 14:52 · Score: 0

Free Internet service providers like Netzero exist (though you do need to pay for a phone line to access them and it assumes they have a dial up access number in your area so that you can avoid long distance charges). Sure they are slow but they're better than nothing.
Having said that, I do agree that every home should have access to a basic, affordable internet connection with reasonable (though not necessarily high) speed. While I'm generally against government intervention this is one area where I don't mind the government intervening and either requiring ISP's to freely provide it to homes or for the government to provide it themselves. At the very least, the government should abolish it's government established communication infrastructure monopolies.
No monthly fee for OTA TV in USA by tepples · 2012-04-16 02:06 · Score: 1

Internet access has a monthly fee. Internet access at throughput capable of video has a higher monthly fee. The "farmer five" OTA channels in the United States have no such fee. The assumption that I detect is that poor people are more likely to consider broadband a droppable luxury service when trying to make ends meet.
sa iu hòa nm 2012 by suamaylanh84 · 2012-04-17 03:47 · Score: -1, Offtopic

ch vi 30p mt dch v sa iu hòa nhanh nht tin ích tn nhà bn trang vòng 30 phút chúng tôi có mt sua dieu hoa ngay ti gia ình bn ca công ty bách khoa chúng tôi, có công ty nào nhanh bng chúng tôi chúng tôi nhanh hn, vi i ng y kinh nghim khc phc ti nhà bn 24/24 c ngày l hay ch nht sua dieu hoa tai ha noi có mt nhanh sau cuc gi ca quý khách mc dù thi tit nng nóng hay mát m trong khi bn phi ngi ch dch v sua dieu hoa tai nha mt hàng ting ng h có khi c bui sáng ngi ch iu ó ã nói lên s thiu chuyên nghip ngay t bc bt u, chúng tôi vi dch v công ty bách khoa bn không phi ngi ch nh vy s chuyên nghip ngay t mt dch v c bt u ti sao chúng tôi dch v tt trong 30p ? th gii làm nhanh tay ngh gii ban bnh nhanh chóng i ng ông o vi hàng trm k s k thut viên c công ty chia u ra nhiu chi nhánh dch v gn bn an tòa lao ng cao t ch tín lên hàng u bo hành nhanh chóng kt thúc úng hn hng dn bn cách s dng ti u nht thay th linh kin chính hãng, các bnh thng gp i vi iu hòa: i vi các loi máy iu hòa gia ình các bnh thng xut hin thông thng nh iu hòa không lnh, kém lnh, báo li không nhn khin không chy cc lnh, không chy cc nóng không chy qut, chy nc... cách s lý trong 30p: i vi iu hòa kém lnh và không lnh kim tra gas có th phi thay th bo dng iu hòa cng cn phi làm vi mt máy ã s dng c 01 nm tr i. i vi iu hòa không chy kim tra bloc, t, ngun in trc tip t atomat không chy cc lnh c kim tra vi mch s lý không chy cc nóng mc dù in ã c cp ra kim tra t, bloc, dây in. i vi iu hòa chy nc kim tra ng thoát nc có b tc không lu thông nu nó quá bn lên bo dng. mt dch v tt c ca chúng tôi chính là 30 phút n nhà bn, 30 phút bt bnh và khc phc còn li nu bn sn sàng nghe chúng tôi t vn hng dn s dng thì cng ch 30 phút bn có th s dng tt nht. sa iu hòa 30 phút sua dieu hoa nhanh nht ch vi mt cuc gi ca quý v chúng tôi ã có mt kp thi khc phc ti nhà bn i vi chúng tôi c phc v khách hàng nhanh tt chính là nim t hào ca công ty chúng tôi, rt mong quý khách hàng kim chng chúng tôi bng mt dch v sa iu hòa vi 0VN ng Dây Nóng Hà Ni 27 Cát Linh: 85 87 33 81 28 Hai Bà Trng: 85 87 33 79 C4 Thanh Xuân: 85 87 33 78 95 Quang Trung (H): 85 87 33 80 78 Ngc Hi: 22 133 626 180 Tây Sn: 22 603 990 243 Cu Giy: 22 111 838 248 Gia Lâm: 66 75 77 58 42 Trn Duy Hng: 66 75 75 33 K9 Bách Khoa: 66 75 76 75