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HP To Certify Ubuntu 12.04 LTS For Its Proliant Servers
An anonymous reader writes with this dose of nice news (untranslated from the PR-ese) on the Linux-in-business front: "Mark Shuttleworth has announced at the OpenStack conference that Canonical has received a ringing endorsement from HP in the form of certification for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on the ProLiant server systems. Responding to customer demand, HP has decided to officially support the popular flavor of Linux giving sysadmins another flexible software option to leverage their current and future hardware."
They already support Debian so this won't be much of a stretch. Hooray! Now, if they would only officially support desktop linux on their laptops and desktops, including help make sure drivers work or driver docs are available...
Why is this even necessary?! Apparently, you can void your hardware warranty by installing software (from TFA):
it simply means that by installing Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on their current (or future) ProLiant hardware that they won’t nullify any kind of hardware warranty
But how does this even work? Also: as TFA notes, it's unclear who is endorsing who here, with HP being extremely profitable and all, but wouldn't it be cheaper for HP to just not be a little whiney kid about what kind of software you can or can't run?
And it fits my needs exactly as a server running XBMC or freenas. I'm still waiting for v8 of freenas to leave beta and I will have a full features ZFS server running. I love how the drivebays are on rails and can be easily removed. When you're installing/reinsalling the OS it's so handy to be able to instantly pull out the drives so that you can't accidently wipe them out. By certifying ubuntu with the proliant perhaps HP can ship the os with the machine. It beats people turning to windows server because it is the only os they know.
XBMC runs on ubuntu too.
Seriously, since when does a Linux user wait for a hardware vendor's permission to do anything?
Don't they already certify SUSE and RHEL?
Given the increasing popularity of Ubuntu on servers, I am sure HP thinks (and rightfully so) it's a good strategic move to test and certify the latest version on their machines.
HP already certifies other distributions and operating systems. They are adding Ubuntu 12.04 LTS to the list.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
If HP certifies an OS as working w/ any of their boxes, then it would seem that installing that OS wouldn't void any warranty. But it would seem smart for a customer to request that the certified OS be pre-installed before purchase. Unless we are talking here about switching OSs on an existing installation.
Ok, thanks. I somehow read the headline as Ubuntu being the preferred OS for the Proliant, which seemed strange.
I don't recall any other major company endorsing Ubuntu Linux.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Wow.. yet another example of how Microsoft controls the vendors and forces them not to use Linux ..
This is why Linux is unable to gain traction..
Dont phone manufacturers do the same?
That's also one of the points from TFA: they will not pre-install Ubuntu, just 'certify' it.
Who are these people who buy a server and need the hardware vendor to pre-install an OS on it? How are they capable of configuring and maintaining the OS if they can't even install it? Question applies to Linux and Windows equally.
Well they've got to have something to run on the Itanium
Small businesses mostly, less than 100 employees. They get a contractor to configure everything and come in to fix it if it breaks. They don't maintain anything really, in rare cases they have one person that does updates every month or so. Since the technician used for this gets paid by the task it is cheaper to get the OS installed from the factory.
Big box vendors and PC vendors and even common internet vendors sell commercial services like this to lots of small mom and pop shops.
Wasnt a previous beta /RC (or possibly release?) of Ubuntu a year or so ago capable of bricking onboard NICs of any machine with a specific intel chipset?
I dont recall the details, but the point is, the wrong software most certainly cause hardware issues.
I am the MIS for a small company, with around 75 employees that I support. I don't even remember the last time I ordered a server that even had drives in it. Call me crazy, but I hate spending $3 / GB for "certified HD's" when SSD's are cheap and fast and work well with Dell / HP's RAID cards. It would just feel wrong to me if I DIDN'T install the OS on any server I ordered.
Now if only Oracle, EMC, Dell, and the other big players would follow suit, my job would be a lot more enjoyable.
People who don't have the time to install one. People who work in a corporate bureaucracy where it takes months to get a copy of Windows Server whatever. People who need the hardware now and need it running as soon as it gets in the door. People who work where the OS install is the responsibility of another person who can't be bothered to do it quickly enough for you.
Who are these people who buy a server and need the hardware vendor to pre-install an OS on it?
People who set up software platforms in remote data centers and want to save on travel costs? So rather than having the server delivered to head-quarters, installing the software, and then shipping the servers to the data center where they are needed, they can now have the server delivered directly to the remote data center with OS pre-installed and install any additional software configuration via ssh.
Of course, HP-iLO makes this somewhat moot (if it can be made to work over a long-distance link).
I agree. We have about 400 employees and often do the same.
We however sell/middleman that service I talked about earlier and your company would be on the upper side of that market. Most are sub 10 employees.
This happened to my wife's machine. If you enabled suspend, it would shut down the NIC completely. It would not even function in Windows 7. It was as if the NIC did not exist. We warrantied the machine back to HP because of it. It turns out all you had to do was pull the power cord and wait a minute or 2. If there was still power to the system, the NIC vanished.
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
That's right. My HP server has always run CentOS, but you can only run with the full two DVD iso set.
Great Distro and my personal favorite glad it's being supported by big vendors. Ubuntu on the server and back track on the desktop for admins, Apple OSX for the users.
http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
(Former Intel contractor)
This is a known issue that happens, on occasion, with Intel NICs. It's "tribal knowledge" to pull the power when troubleshooting a vanished NIC. So, reading this didn't even flicker my emotions, despite how messed-up it is.
That's fine. How about they provide a working OpenView agent for Ubuntu. Until then, we're not using it.
While not HP, we have the same issue with NetBackup. Until there's a working agent, we're using Red Hat.
Or any other software that may not have a working Debian based agent.
(That's not to say there may not be a more current version that what we currently have installed that does support Ubuntu/Debian but our current install doesn't support it.)
[John]
Shit better not happen!
You must not have much server turnover or growth then. Otherwise you'd be spending tons of hours doing basic setups on servers.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I was not a member of that "tribe" when it happened. I don't think that it was an Intel NIC though, as the MOBO is an AMD chipset.
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
I'm curious to see if this will change anything in practice.
In the past, I've bought several pieces of hardware that were supposedly certified or supported for , to only discover later that no, IPMI didn't really work in linux, you could only get the temperature out of half the sensors, or to get the full features out of ACPI / TPM / crypto chip or to get things to work you had to install shady 3rd party drivers that hadn't really been updated until 5 versions ago of the linux kernel. Ah! and don't run that command or use that feature, otherwise for some unknown reason the system freezes, or start returning buggy numbers.
I don't have any recent experience with HP - but will they provide updated drivers if it doesn't work on Ubuntu? Will they clearly specify on their website what works and what doesn't? how difficult will be to replace a component just because a feature I needed doesn't work on linux?
I don't see "being ceritified" or "being supported" as a boolean, it's more like a grey area for which you have to clearly define boundaries for it to have any meaning. The end result is that I always have to spend a few hours to research a new piece of hardware before I'm comfortable buying it, and even so... what looks good on paper doesn't turn out to be good in practice.
(writing from a lenovo laptop with an intel 5350 wireless adapter, supported in linux, that has had a firmware bug that would cause the wireless to hang from time to time on 802.11n networks...)
Easy - software controls how hard the machines works to achieves the task. Fan speeds, temperature, etc. HP warranties that the OS supplied is covered for product lifetime X.
Warrantied OS's will also give log outputs etc that HP has set up the infrastructure to recognize on service calls.
You can get all tin-foil or easily-insulted if you want, but the decision has a very simple business basis. No need to whine, little kid.
Why hasn't this already been done?
There are plenty of tools to do unattended remote deployment with or without remote server management capability (though it really is helpful for assuring things work and kicking the server should something unexpected happen during deployment). Installing an OS at the same level as a vendor preload would be takes about 30 minutes to complete of which at most seconds requires a human to pay attention, depending on solution, some require no attention beyond plugging in the server and hitting the power button once.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Playing Devil's Advocate here - so if a user installs some software which causes the hardware to break, should the vendor still be expected to support it?
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
So another group does it too - that doesn't mean that it's right. Users should have the right to install whatever they want to, but they government won't protect them if they do that, so the vendor can write whatever terms they want.
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
Most servers would be running a VMware (or Other) hypervisor, so do does this really matter?
I run a plethora of virtual Ubuntu servers on our VMware host.
If software can break your hardware, then your hardware was already broken.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Yes and no. They may have thoroughly tested the hardware with everything the "certified" OSs are likely to throw at it, so feel relatively confident that they can offer a full replacement warranty under those circumstances.
I don't have a problem with such restrictions because it is possible to actually break some hardware using software. I remember way back when you could make CRT monitors die with the wring signals, and not so long ago there were a buggy network card that work fine with the official drivers but could be bricked (permanently put beyond use) by the driver in an alternative OS.
Of course hardware that breaks in such a way is faulty IMO, but legally speaking (in the UK at least, and by my understanding but don't take it as absolute truth as I'm no lawyer) they are covered as regulations stating that products should be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose do allow "reasonable" restrictions like this. There was a similar case a while back (sorry, can't find a link at the moment) of a car manufacturer refusing to repair/replace an engine because they found that the driver has tried some petrol additive and the warranty explicitly did not cover that sort of thing - I would consider this the same issue.
The standard (and correct IMO) defence against accusations that F/OSS licenses are in some way damaging could also be used as an analogy here: "if you don't like the license don't use the code and if you use the code without checking the licensing issues that is your due diligence failure not a problem with the license". In this case that would become "if you don't like the warranty terms don't buy the product and if you buy the product without checking the terms that is your due diligence failure not a problem with the terms".
And in the example of HP it isn't like this is a forced software vendor lock-in issue, which would have anti-compeittion law implications. They have certified some Linux variants not just some Windows ones.
Having said that I understand their position, I must say that if I were ever refuse warranty care because I ran the wrong distribution, or discovered pre-purchase that a company would not support Linux users in that way at all, then that would carefully considered as part of my decision making process regarding who to buy kit from than and in the future.
They are not saying it would not run without causing problems before, they just offered no assurance that it would be OK.
If they certify that kit running bare-metal VMWare, then yes it would be fine if only the hypervisor was touching the hardware. That is the case most of the time, but features that allow direct(ish) hardware access from within VMs such as VMDirectPath in VMWare and Xen's ability to offer direct access to GPUs muddy the waters quite a bit.
Well, Linux can update the microcode on a CPU for example.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds -- Albert Einstein
FTFY.
Why is this even necessary?! Apparently, you can void your hardware warranty by installing software (from TFA):
Sounds like the article is probably over-simplifying things by calling it a hardware warranty. These are business servers, and companies that use them generally have pricey service contracts. They aren't interested in the cost of a replacement hardware as much as they're worried about being able to continue using the system as quickly as possible after a problem.
Having official support for the OS becomes a lot more important in cases where it's not an obvious hardware fault, but things still aren't working right. For example, let's say the RAID array keeps degrading and rebuilding itself every day or two. Clearly not a good thing -- I/O performance is reduced while it's rebuilding, and a drive fault during the rebuild could mean having to restore from tape. Let's also assume that you've tried replacing all the drives with spares, and it's still happening. If you're using an OS that the manufacturer has certified as working with their hardware, you're a lot less likely to get the runaround of "Maybe it's a problem with your kernel."
HP can't provide software support for every distro on Earth is their only issue, not refusing warranty on hardware. They have been Linux fans for a long time - they donate the servers for kernel.org, for example and support drivers for almost all their printers.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
There is mention of warranty issues in some HP documentation and/or licences - people have mentioned them elsewhere in the discussion. I doubt HP would void a warranty for any such reason, but the text is presumably there for arse-covering purposes should some OS somewhere do something very odd with some hardware.
They have certified other distros for support purposes for quite some time, I know.
HP also can't warrant that your NetBSD driver (or whatever random distro) for their onboard SAS array controller functions properly as they haven't qualified it and couldn't troubleshoot it. They do however have their own Linux-based diagnostic utility to diagnose all the hardware on every single server, that you can download for free. And by all the hardware I mean all of it: every dimm, processor, timer, sensor, add-in card and so on. And if that diagnostic finds bad hardware, they can and do honor the warranty and replace the hardware - paying for onsite service if required if that's the warranty. Not only is what OS you're running on the hardware not relevant, the question is not even asked. If the hardware checks out you need to submit a bug report to your OS provider because it's not the hardware that's broken.
There are other levels of support, like Software support, where HP partners with the OS provider and if an issue is found they get the software fixed or update the driver. You're only going to get that on a certified OS with purchased software support. These problems are pretty rare. Usually the companies that buy this level of support are Fortune 1000 companies, government agencies and the like, or they have a business-critical application, or some bleeding-edge hardware. Almost all hardware and OS's have odd corner case quirks that only show up for one person in a hundred thousand, in one particular use case on one particular OS. Those are the most pernicious bugs, and it can take this level of Software Support to root them out. Sometimes they're never completely resolved before the equipment hits end-of-life or an OS update mysteriously disappears the problem. But those are rare. You can go a whole career and never find one because of the thorough validation processes that go on before the first server of the model even ships.
It wasn't so long ago that OEMs were deliberately bundling in things with proprietary hardware you not only couldn't get drivers for, but the responsible company that designed the chipset wouldn't even give the specifications for so the drivers had to be painstakingly reverse-engineered. HP is one company that fought that trend and stuck with industry standard, fairly open hardware and helped win that war on servers. In laptops and desktops they did dabble in the dodgy wifi, networking and audio chipsets though - and still do a little bit. But on the servers I believe they have always been pretty solid.
Mostly what I'm trying to avoid here is somebody taking away from this discussion the idea that if they run Distro X, HP will deny their warranty repair of genuinely faulty equipment. Because that is simply not true. And it wouldn't be legal if it was true.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Fair point, thanks.