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Google Shutting Out Rivals, Claims Russian Search Engine Yandex

Posted by timothy on from the red-in-tooth-and-claw dept.

suraj.sun writes "Ilya Segalovich, co-founder of Russia's leading search engine, Yandex, has accused Google of abusing its dominance to shut out competitors in cyberspace. Responding to comments made to the Guardian by Sergey Brin, the Google co-founder, about threats to the open internet, Ilya Segalovich described the U.S. search giant's popular smartphone platform, Android, as a 'strange combination of openness and not openness,' and its Chrome web browser as anti-competitive. Segalovich said that Brin should explain Google's 'semi-open' approach to search competitors before accusing others of endangering the unfettered internet, and suggested Google was guilty of foul play with its Chrome browser, which picks the company's own search engine as default for users, rather than offering a choice between rivals including Yahoo, Bing and Yandex."

25 of 170 comments (clear)

  1. Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's odd. On my machine I can open Chrome, go to Settings|Basics|Search and select from several search engines including Bing and Chrome will honor my selection. If the one you like isn't listed, you can add it yourself. Sure it starts out set to Google by default, it kind of has to be set to something, but that's hardly "shutting out the competition".

    1. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by icebike · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because your machine does not come with Google Chrome. You had to go fetch it.
      And when you install it for the first time it ASKS you which search engine you want.

      From then on it shows what ever you selected, and the list of choices is wider than any other browser.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Sancho · · Score: 2

      The bundling problem always had to do with Microsoft using a monopoly in one market (OS) to gain significant market share in another market (web browsers.) It had nothing to do with having to pay for unwanted bundles (at least in the US.) Otherwise, Microsoft might have needed to unbundle things like Notepad, Wordpad, Paint, etc. I sure know that I never would have wanted those, preferring WinVi and a real painting tool.

    3. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The bundling problem always had to do with Microsoft using a monopoly in one market (OS) to gain significant market share in another market (web browsers.) It had nothing to do with having to pay for unwanted bundles (at least in the US.) Otherwise, Microsoft might have needed to unbundle things like Notepad, Wordpad, Paint, etc. I sure know that I never would have wanted those, preferring WinVi and a real painting tool.

      So Google has turned Microsoft's game on it's head, they have gained a significant share in one market (Web Browsers) to sustain what is practically a monopoly in another (Internet Search). When I installed Chrome it did not pop up a window and offer me a choice of which search engine to use. How many people bother to click their way into the settings menu and pick a search engine other than Google whey they set up Chrome? I'd be surprised if they more than a small percentage. Chrome provides Google with a very powerful tool for gathering data on the browsing habits of millions of people that is rivaled only by those omnipresent Facebook buttons.

      Posting anonymously to avoid being modded down by legions of Googlebots furiously lecturing me on how none of this is really anything to worry about because Google isn't evil and would never ever abuse it's position unlike Microsoft which is the spawn of Satan.

    4. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think it might not in Russia (some AC below posted a link to a bug report that said they disabled the first-run search selector screen for Russian builds). However, it should be noted this is not a monopolistic practice. Yandex has 62% share in Russia, while Google only has a 25% share, so they can't really be "shutting out" Yandex: Yandex is by far the biggest player already. You can argue about what Google should do, but not offering a selection screen is hardly illegal, because Google isn't even close to the majority player.

      Also, Segalovich claims that "If you download an application [on Android] it does not work if it's not Android marketplace." Which is wrong, at face value (I've sideloaded apps all the time), so either a) this is just FUD or b) he isn't conveying his point very well (actually, b is certain, I read what he is claiming and I still don't know what he is trying to say).

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    5. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The story he was referring to was not about the ability to change the search engine in general, but rather about the dialog that pops up when you first run Chrome on a given machine and asks you to select the initial default search engine (kinda like that browser ballot box that Microsoft had to add in Windows to satisfy EU).

      Which is a nice thing - though not legally mandated in any way (but I bet it was a pre-emptive move by Google's legal department). Except that they then specifically disabled it if current locale is Russian. Legal, of course, but kinda sleazy to do this kind of market differentiation.

      All that said, the code seems to no longer be present in Chromium trunk.

    6. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by AngryDeuce · · Score: 2

      When I installed Chrome it did not pop up a window and offer me a choice of which search engine to use. How many people bother to click their way into the settings menu and pick a search engine other than Google whey they set up Chrome?

      Conversely, how many people install Chrome and reasonably expect some other search engine to be the default? I mean, If you're downloading the Google Chrome web browser, it would seem kinda obvious to me that the default search engine would be Google.

      The real question is; how many people would bother to change it even if it was a big pop-up window when you first ran the browser? I literally do not know anybody that does not solely use Google as their search engine. Of course that's not to say that those people don't exist, obviously, but I'd really doubt it's a sizable percentage based on my own personal observations. I mean, not sure if this is still true, but Bing was using Google's search results. Why fuck around with a middle-man?

      I'm no Googlebot, and I understand the privacy concerns that stem from the fact that they've got their fingers in literally every damn pie out there, but I think that there are some silly scenarios that come out of these complaints. Like the arguments against Google just returning the answer to a query at the top of a search rather than serving up a bunch of websites related to it if it can do so. Most people, when they search a question, are looking for a fucking answer, not 1,000 websites talking about the answer. If I type in "How tall is Tom Cruise?", I'm not wondering how tall IMDB specifically thinks he is, or Wikipedia, I just want to know how freaking tall he is...but there are people arguing that is an abuse of their position and should deliberately obfuscate the information to drive hits to competitor sites? Come on. Not saying this particular AC is saying that (before someone starts screaming Straw Man) just saying I've heard that argument before and it's always seemed weird to me.

      For the record, I never really agreed with the Microsoft anti-trust shit, either. I know it was fashionable to hate on them back then in "You Will Be Assimilated" era, but that was one thing that I felt Microsoft was totally within it's rights to do. If they prevented you from installing a rival browser, fine, or if they deliberately made a rival browser perform worse than their own, fine...but simply including it's own by default was fine with me. Apple includes Safari with OSX, you can't remove it...does Apple need an anti-trust suit?

    7. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by haruchai · · Score: 2

      It's been a long time since the IE-only browser issue but from what I vaguely recall, my issue with M$ stance was their claim that IE was an intrinsic part of the OS that couldn't be removed ( I believe the judge proved them wrong on the spot ). Since there were critical exploits, because of that IE-Windows integration, M$ was essentially and unnecessarily forcing users on a compromised platform when there were already viable ( arguably better ) alternatives that didn't compromise the entire OS.

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      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    8. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Z34107 · · Score: 4, Informative

      When I installed Chrome it did not pop up a window and offer me a choice of which search engine to use.

      You're either lying or blind, Mr. AC. I installed Chrome just now, and I was greeted with a search engine pop-up. If you miss that, you'll see it every time you right click on the URL bar.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    9. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by zlogic · · Score: 2

      I remember the time when IE dominated the web and it was not pretty. Most sites didn't bother testing compatibility with other browsers - when Firefox 1.0 was finally released, a lot of sites didn't work or display correctly. IE6 was synonymous with stagnation (a popup blocker appeared only in Windows XP SP2, 3 years after IE6 was released!). Most feature-rich or banking sites simply installed their own ActiveX controls or used flash because Javascript in IE was so poor.
      Futhermore, IE versions for Mac and Windows Mobile worked differently from the desktop version. I'd say it's remarkable that today you can expect 99% websites to work properly on any browser or device - a direct consequence of IE losing marketshare, forcing webmasters to care about compatibility with non-IE browsers.
      Although I do admit that IE introduced AJAX before others.

    10. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by JackieBrown · · Score: 3, Informative

      Android did not use to come with Chrome. In fact, it is not even available unless you are using Android 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich. Even then, you need to install it.

      https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.chrome&hl=en

    11. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He isn't blind. You've just stumbled across Google's underhandedness.

      Chrome actually behaves differently based on different things, such as country. IN the US, Chrome prompts you to chose a search engine because they KNOW you'll choose Google. In Russia they don't do this.

    12. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Clsid · · Score: 2

      I don't know about you, but if you look real close about what Chrome is doing, even if you have that instant search feature turned off, the browser will redirect even full urls that you type down like www.something.com to google.com with some unique user id belonging to whatever cookie you have and then finally showing you the website. If that isn't a case to get paranoid I don't know what is.

  2. Chrome DOES offer a choce by melted · · Score: 2

    When first installed, it lets you select between Yahoo, Google and Bing (so basically between Google and Bing, because Yahoo uses Bing for search).

    1. Re:Chrome DOES offer a choce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes. But not in Russia, which is what this story is about. Source: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=81578

  3. This man *is* a loser, period. by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Google was guilty of foul play with its Chrome browser, which picks the company's own search engine as default for users, rather than offering a choice between rivals including Yahoo, Bing and Yandex."

    The gentleman Ilya Segalovich must be a very interesting individual.

    I have a solution for him:

    I think the time is ripe for him to unleash the Yandex browser to the world, why not?

    Good luck my man!

    1. Re:This man *is* a loser, period. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      I think the time is ripe for him to unleash the Yandex browser to the world, why not?

      They do just that (and some more).

      But doesn't seem to be helping much.

  4. Wrong order by Haedrian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm quite sure that most people who use Google Chrome do so after finding out about it because they use Google as a search engine.

    So its basically the other way around.

    Moreoever, you can change the default search engine, so WOW, issue solved!

    Also the only reason I ever heard of Yandex was because I saw their scraper on my website. I had never heard about it before. I guess Google is doing a GREAT job choking them.

    1. Re:Wrong order by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      "Also the only reason I ever heard of Yandex was because I saw their scraper on my website. I had never heard about it before. I guess Google is doing a GREAT job choking them."

      Yandex is the most popular search engine in the xUSSR. It understands Russian (also Ukrainian and Belorussian) languages much better than Google. Besides, Yandex directly competes with Google Maps, Google Mail and other services in Russia. And quite successfully, in fact.

      For English-speaking people Yandex is not really useful (its homepage is not even completely translated into English). Personally, I use Yandex when I need to search for something in Russian and Google all other times.

  5. Most people use the default search setting by Animats · · Score: 2

    Google pays Apple $100 million a year to be the default search engine on the iPhone. Google pays Mozilla $125 million a year to be the default search engine on Firefox. Most Bing traffic comes from the default setting in Internet Explorer. Few people actually change their default search engine setting.

    This has some strong implications for the search industry. First, most users don't care which search engine they're using. Second, search has negative value - search engines are an ad medium that has to pay to be seen.

    1. Re:Most people use the default search setting by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 2

      search has negative value

      Your argument generalizes to the idea that any product for which the seller pays for shelf space has negative value. This occurs pretty much anywhere that distributor intermediaries have sufficient market power to abuse it, specifically where customers choose the distributor intermediary based on more considerations than solely which third party service (e.g. search engine) they offer.

      Kindly troll elsewhere.

  6. Re:Google Chrome asks you to choose a search engin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's because Google have restricted the ability to select your search engine in Chrome specifically if you have a Russian locale.

  7. Re:On a Mac, Chrome lets you choose a search provi by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Informative

    It does that on all platforms on first run. But there was a time when it did not do that if you had LANG="ru".

  8. Re:Google Chrome asks you to choose a search engin by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

    Note that this code is no longer present in the trunk (unless they moved it elsewhere)?

  9. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by hkmwbz · · Score: 2

    Just like nothing stopped other browser vendors from creating their own desktop OS to compete with MSIE?

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    Clever signature text goes here.