Google Shutting Out Rivals, Claims Russian Search Engine Yandex

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Google Shutting Out Rivals, Claims Russian Search Engine Yandex

Posted by timothy on Saturday April 21, 2012 @06:19AM from the red-in-tooth-and-claw dept.

suraj.sun writes "Ilya Segalovich, co-founder of Russia's leading search engine, Yandex, has accused Google of abusing its dominance to shut out competitors in cyberspace. Responding to comments made to the Guardian by Sergey Brin, the Google co-founder, about threats to the open internet, Ilya Segalovich described the U.S. search giant's popular smartphone platform, Android, as a 'strange combination of openness and not openness,' and its Chrome web browser as anti-competitive. Segalovich said that Brin should explain Google's 'semi-open' approach to search competitors before accusing others of endangering the unfettered internet, and suggested Google was guilty of foul play with its Chrome browser, which picks the company's own search engine as default for users, rather than offering a choice between rivals including Yahoo, Bing and Yandex."

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Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Todd+Knarr · 2012-04-21 06:22 · Score: 5, Informative

That's odd. On my machine I can open Chrome, go to Settings|Basics|Search and select from several search engines including Bing and Chrome will honor my selection. If the one you like isn't listed, you can add it yourself. Sure it starts out set to Google by default, it kind of has to be set to something, but that's hardly "shutting out the competition".
1. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Hentes · 2012-04-21 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  Because IE was bundled with MS, thus you effectively had to pay for it whether you used it or not. Google, however, can be used from any other browser without cost.
2. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by icebike · 2012-04-21 06:30 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Because your machine does not come with Google Chrome. You had to go fetch it.
  And when you install it for the first time it ASKS you which search engine you want.
  From then on it shows what ever you selected, and the list of choices is wider than any other browser.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
3. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by firex726 · 2012-04-21 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  Yea sounds like recent claims by some other smaller browser makers made against IE.
  MS had to add a selection of browser in their EU release of Windows I think, and they included the bigger named ones; IE, Chrome, FF, Safari, Opera, etc... But then a buncha smaller ones got made because they were also not included.
4. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Sancho · 2012-04-21 07:20 · Score: 2
  
  The bundling problem always had to do with Microsoft using a monopoly in one market (OS) to gain significant market share in another market (web browsers.) It had nothing to do with having to pay for unwanted bundles (at least in the US.) Otherwise, Microsoft might have needed to unbundle things like Notepad, Wordpad, Paint, etc. I sure know that I never would have wanted those, preferring WinVi and a real painting tool.
5. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by ninetyninebottles · 2012-04-21 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  Yea sounds like recent claims by some other smaller browser makers made against IE.
  Here's where you seem confused. They made claims against Microsoft, not IE. Microsoft has dominance in the desktop OS market and used that to promote IE instead of letting it live or die based upon it's own merits in a competitive marketplace. Google may be guilty of similar leveraging of their dominance in online search and search related advertisement, but not in bundling things into their browser (which has relatively small market share). Google can bundle anything they want with Chrome. It's when they bundle things with Google search (you get them when you get search) that you run afoul antitrust law. When Google starts promoting their other services unfairly in search results (as they've done and been busted for) that's when Google is doing the same antitrust behavior as MS.
6. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Look the problem was not only that IE was included in Windows. One you could not remove IE. Two, IE had access to the underlying OS that was on purpose not allowed to be used in Netscape, thus, slowed it down on purpose. Three, Microsoft used its position with vendors to ensure that Netscape could never strike a deal with hardware vendors to include Netscape. Dell, HP, Gateway, IBM, and so on were all told that including Navigator would increase the license cost per machine. Finally, Microsoft used its partnership with Intel to ensure that Netscape couldn't band with someone else and make enough money to offset any kind of increase in license cost. If Netscape tried to get with IBM to make Netscape on the Cyrix processor. Intel could revoke the right for IBM to use the x86 instruction set.
  It was a systematic and well planned move to ensure that no matter how much money Netscape could pull together, Netscape was never to be put on a PC and any attempt to do so, should make said PC pay dearly. That's why their butts got hauled to court.
7. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by bhagwad · 2012-04-21 07:38 · Score: 1
  
  Personally, I could never understand why Microsoft got into trouble with IE. After all, you could always change browsers if you wanted to...like most of us did. To my mind, having something as a default as long as there was an easy way to override it should not be reasons for antitrust.
  
  Now if Windows had disallowed or otherwise hindered users from installing another browser, THAT would be a different matter altogether!
8. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 07:48 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The bundling problem always had to do with Microsoft using a monopoly in one market (OS) to gain significant market share in another market (web browsers.) It had nothing to do with having to pay for unwanted bundles (at least in the US.) Otherwise, Microsoft might have needed to unbundle things like Notepad, Wordpad, Paint, etc. I sure know that I never would have wanted those, preferring WinVi and a real painting tool.
  So Google has turned Microsoft's game on it's head, they have gained a significant share in one market (Web Browsers) to sustain what is practically a monopoly in another (Internet Search). When I installed Chrome it did not pop up a window and offer me a choice of which search engine to use. How many people bother to click their way into the settings menu and pick a search engine other than Google whey they set up Chrome? I'd be surprised if they more than a small percentage. Chrome provides Google with a very powerful tool for gathering data on the browsing habits of millions of people that is rivaled only by those omnipresent Facebook buttons.
  Posting anonymously to avoid being modded down by legions of Googlebots furiously lecturing me on how none of this is really anything to worry about because Google isn't evil and would never ever abuse it's position unlike Microsoft which is the spawn of Satan.
9. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by maroberts · 2012-04-21 07:55 · Score: 1
  
  Well I had mod points (until I commented here) and would have voted up because its a sensible statement of a possible anti-trust action.
  Microsoft may be the spawn of Satan, but there is no reason why Google cannot be persuaded to sell its soul and join the Dark Side.... :-)
  
  --
  Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
  Karma: Chameleon
10. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by maroberts · 2012-04-21 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  Chrome is getting to a stage where its share of the market could be regarded as significant.
  
  --
  Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
  Karma: Chameleon
11. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by ninetyninebottles · 2012-04-21 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  Personally, I could never understand why Microsoft got into trouble with IE.
  Read an economics textbook. Antitrust and bundling are pretty common terms. Anything written in the last century should cover it.
12. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Baloroth · 2012-04-21 08:00 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I think it might not in Russia (some AC below posted a link to a bug report that said they disabled the first-run search selector screen for Russian builds). However, it should be noted this is not a monopolistic practice. Yandex has 62% share in Russia, while Google only has a 25% share, so they can't really be "shutting out" Yandex: Yandex is by far the biggest player already. You can argue about what Google should do, but not offering a selection screen is hardly illegal, because Google isn't even close to the majority player.
  Also, Segalovich claims that "If you download an application [on Android] it does not work if it's not Android marketplace." Which is wrong, at face value (I've sideloaded apps all the time), so either a) this is just FUD or b) he isn't conveying his point very well (actually, b is certain, I read what he is claiming and I still don't know what he is trying to say).
  
  --
  "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
13. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-04-21 08:18 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The story he was referring to was not about the ability to change the search engine in general, but rather about the dialog that pops up when you first run Chrome on a given machine and asks you to select the initial default search engine (kinda like that browser ballot box that Microsoft had to add in Windows to satisfy EU).
  Which is a nice thing - though not legally mandated in any way (but I bet it was a pre-emptive move by Google's legal department). Except that they then specifically disabled it if current locale is Russian. Legal, of course, but kinda sleazy to do this kind of market differentiation.
  All that said, the code seems to no longer be present in Chromium trunk.
14. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by AngryDeuce · 2012-04-21 08:26 · Score: 2
  
  When I installed Chrome it did not pop up a window and offer me a choice of which search engine to use. How many people bother to click their way into the settings menu and pick a search engine other than Google whey they set up Chrome?
  Conversely, how many people install Chrome and reasonably expect some other search engine to be the default? I mean, If you're downloading the Google Chrome web browser, it would seem kinda obvious to me that the default search engine would be Google.
  The real question is; how many people would bother to change it even if it was a big pop-up window when you first ran the browser? I literally do not know anybody that does not solely use Google as their search engine. Of course that's not to say that those people don't exist, obviously, but I'd really doubt it's a sizable percentage based on my own personal observations. I mean, not sure if this is still true, but Bing was using Google's search results. Why fuck around with a middle-man?
  I'm no Googlebot, and I understand the privacy concerns that stem from the fact that they've got their fingers in literally every damn pie out there, but I think that there are some silly scenarios that come out of these complaints. Like the arguments against Google just returning the answer to a query at the top of a search rather than serving up a bunch of websites related to it if it can do so. Most people, when they search a question, are looking for a fucking answer, not 1,000 websites talking about the answer. If I type in "How tall is Tom Cruise?", I'm not wondering how tall IMDB specifically thinks he is, or Wikipedia, I just want to know how freaking tall he is...but there are people arguing that is an abuse of their position and should deliberately obfuscate the information to drive hits to competitor sites? Come on. Not saying this particular AC is saying that (before someone starts screaming Straw Man) just saying I've heard that argument before and it's always seemed weird to me.
  For the record, I never really agreed with the Microsoft anti-trust shit, either. I know it was fashionable to hate on them back then in "You Will Be Assimilated" era, but that was one thing that I felt Microsoft was totally within it's rights to do. If they prevented you from installing a rival browser, fine, or if they deliberately made a rival browser perform worse than their own, fine...but simply including it's own by default was fine with me. Apple includes Safari with OSX, you can't remove it...does Apple need an anti-trust suit?
15. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by MightyMartian · 2012-04-21 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  No kidding. This is not the same situation. Any way you look at it, getting Google to be the default search engine on a fresh Windows install takes more steps than Bing. In fact, it's a testament to how badly Microsoft is doing in the browser and search markets that it still can't get past distant second in search and people in increasing numbers are moving to Chrome.
  In other words it's not because of Google's monopoly that its search has been so successful but because Microsoft's monopoly is failing.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
16. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by reub2000 · 2012-04-21 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  When has throwing something in a box that a user might not want been illegal? Nobody complains when a pair of cables is thrown in with a DVD player, when the user might have their own set of cables already.
  Microsoft on the other hand got in trouble because they where leveraging their OS monopoly to take over web browsers. This meant that users had to put in extra effort if they wanted to use a competitors product.
17. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by bhagwad · 2012-04-21 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  It's about not understanding antitrust laws. It's about me not accepting the definition of antitrust in this particular case. Every side has more than one way of looking at it after all.
18. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by bhagwad · 2012-04-21 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  Wow - angry much? A simple clarification would have been enough!
19. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by haruchai · 2012-04-21 09:07 · Score: 2
  
  It's been a long time since the IE-only browser issue but from what I vaguely recall, my issue with M$ stance was their claim that IE was an intrinsic part of the OS that couldn't be removed ( I believe the judge proved them wrong on the spot ). Since there were critical exploits, because of that IE-Windows integration, M$ was essentially and unnecessarily forcing users on a compromised platform when there were already viable ( arguably better ) alternatives that didn't compromise the entire OS.
  
  --
  Pain is merely failure leaving the body
20. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Threni · 2012-04-21 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  Uh yeah, if by that you mean `it's the most popular browser`, which it apparently is from time to time (ie people are paid to use IE but opt to use Chrome in their spare time because it's shit-loads better).
21. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Z34107 · 2012-04-21 09:57 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  When I installed Chrome it did not pop up a window and offer me a choice of which search engine to use.
  You're either lying or blind, Mr. AC. I installed Chrome just now, and I was greeted with a search engine pop-up. If you miss that, you'll see it every time you right click on the URL bar.
  
  --
  DATABASE WOW WOW
22. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by zlogic · 2012-04-21 09:59 · Score: 2
  
  I remember the time when IE dominated the web and it was not pretty. Most sites didn't bother testing compatibility with other browsers - when Firefox 1.0 was finally released, a lot of sites didn't work or display correctly. IE6 was synonymous with stagnation (a popup blocker appeared only in Windows XP SP2, 3 years after IE6 was released!). Most feature-rich or banking sites simply installed their own ActiveX controls or used flash because Javascript in IE was so poor.
  Futhermore, IE versions for Mac and Windows Mobile worked differently from the desktop version. I'd say it's remarkable that today you can expect 99% websites to work properly on any browser or device - a direct consequence of IE losing marketshare, forcing webmasters to care about compatibility with non-IE browsers.
  Although I do admit that IE introduced AJAX before others.
23. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by JackieBrown · 2012-04-21 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  I get prompted as well when first using Chromium for which search engine I want to use. I believe the choices were Google, Bing, and Yahoo
24. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by JackieBrown · 2012-04-21 10:22 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Android did not use to come with Chrome. In fact, it is not even available unless you are using Android 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich. Even then, you need to install it.
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.chrome&hl=en
25. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 10:35 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  He isn't blind. You've just stumbled across Google's underhandedness.
  Chrome actually behaves differently based on different things, such as country. IN the US, Chrome prompts you to chose a search engine because they KNOW you'll choose Google. In Russia they don't do this.
26. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by thetoadwarrior · 2012-04-21 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  IE defaults to Bing and on a few occasions something I've installed in the past (an XP update) changed it back to Bing and in fact changed Firefox to use Bing. Google is happy to leave me using DDG.
27. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by thetoadwarrior · 2012-04-21 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  To be fair the problem came about more after they tied it into the system and made it impossible to get rid of. Nothing forces Chrome on you and it's happy to let you change search engines which I can't say is the same with MS. Perhaps they've changed but in the past one of their updates changed even my Firefox settings to use Bing without my permission. As far as I'm concerned that's an abuse of your position. Defaulting to your own search engine (or browser) isn't an issue if you let people get rid of it when they don't want it and don't actively try to shut out the competition.
28. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Clsid · 2012-04-21 12:18 · Score: 2
  
  I don't know about you, but if you look real close about what Chrome is doing, even if you have that instant search feature turned off, the browser will redirect even full urls that you type down like www.something.com to google.com with some unique user id belonging to whatever cookie you have and then finally showing you the website. If that isn't a case to get paranoid I don't know what is.
29. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Cyberax · 2012-04-21 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  According to Russian laws it IS an illegal practice (the threshold for special treatment is 30% of the relevant mark, Google is close to it).
  Besides, it's a rotten way to compete anyway.
30. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by RMingin · 2012-04-21 13:43 · Score: 1
  
  When I do a "new" install of Chrome (without signing in to a Google account), it ASKS me what search engine to default to. I believe it was Google, Bing, and Yahoo earlier tonight.
  
  --
  The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
31. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by tommy8 · 2012-04-21 15:02 · Score: 1
  
  I think MS was prohibiting OEMs like dell or gateway or whoever from putting Netscape on PCs
32. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by ninetyninebottles · 2012-04-21 15:10 · Score: 1
  
  It's about not understanding antitrust laws. It's about me not accepting the definition of antitrust in this particular case. Every side has more than one way of looking at it after all.
  The idea that there are two, equally valid sides to anything is one of most idiotic inventions of modern entertainment news. Antitrust has a meaning and a distinct purpose. The economics are clear and well demonstrated. The laws are clear in their restrictions and follow logically from the economics. The application of the law to Microsoft's actions is clear. Your acceptance is not needed.
33. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by ninetyninebottles · 2012-04-21 15:13 · Score: 1
  
  Chrome is getting to a stage where its share of the market could be regarded as significant.
  Not in terms of either the economics or legality of antitrust action. Chrome is hovering around 25%. It isn't even the front runner, let alone dominating the market to the extent that it could be used to undermine competition. 70% is a guideline often used by regulators for when to start investigating potential antitrust issues.
34. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 16:28 · Score: 1
  
  The judge coulsn't have proved them wrong, much less "on the spot". There was originally no difference between IE and WE, IE was in and of itself, the Windows 95 UI, which is what made things like Active Desktop possible, the built-in help system was all IE-based. It's very much like how OS X and KDE integrate WebKit/Core and KHTML everywhere. Besides that, there the whole Active-X security nightmare, which couldn't have been a ywhere near as bad as it was, had IE not been so deeply integrated into the system as it was.
  It's not as deeply integrated as it used to be, but for little more than the lulz, grab a copy of XPLite and remove all IE-related components from even Windows XP (and no cheating by leaving the rendering engine in place), and watch as all kinds of stuff starts acting strange or outright breaking in all kinds of weird ways, probably most noticibly, Windows Update.
  So in short, no, you recall incorrectly.
35. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by bhagwad · 2012-04-21 16:35 · Score: 1
  
  If it was so scientific, there wouldn't be a long drawn out court case with many reversals and appeals. Instead, we should all settle antitrust disputes using a simple computer program right? True, not all views are valid. That doesn't mean that there CAN'T be two views to an issue.
36. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 16:36 · Score: 1
  
  Javascript in IE... Poor?
  The things that were being done with DHTML and xmlhttprequest, at least from a UI perspective, where just nuts, some with longer, less hate-restricted memories could argue that the current web 2'0 hooplah is only just beginning to catch up to IE6. There are still things I can't do now, that I could with IE4-6 (free-form, chromeless UI design, being one, right-to-left orientation being another, and all those fun things you could do by plugging right into DX)
37. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by FreakyGreenLeaky · 2012-04-21 19:17 · Score: 1
  
  Sure it starts out set to Google by default, it kind of has to be set to something, but that's hardly "shutting out the competition".
  You're missing the point, google sycophant. Chrome should offer a choice during installation. Not doing so ensures an uneven playing field.
38. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure what your point is. His point is that Google is acting in a malicious manner. Do you deny that?
  
  --
  Clever signature text goes here.
39. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 22:57 · Score: 1
  
  The long drawn out court cases are there because it's possible to use the law to stall the process. That still doesn't change the simple, basic facts of the matter.
  
  --
  Clever signature text goes here.
40. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 23:00 · Score: 1
  
  70%? No, the limit is well below that. 30-40% or so, I think. And the point is that Chrome is growing fast.
  
  --
  Clever signature text goes here.
41. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by maroberts · 2012-04-21 23:33 · Score: 1
  
  There's no typo; my (ex) g/f chose it, and since his ancestry is black English on mummys side, I see little wrong in him having a name associated with African ancestry.
  I'm perfectly aware of Dante being the possible Italian/Latin original of the name. As I have a degree plus college level English I don't think spelling is a problem for me (with a few exceptions).
  As you've said, he's also got a perfectly sensible middle name (which I chose), and there's little wrong with shortening Donte to Don if he wants later. But having said that, having an unusual name also makes you memorable which can be an advantage.
  
  --
  Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
  Karma: Chameleon
42. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by aplusjimages · 2012-04-22 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  in chrome and firefox the address bar is also a search bar. Makes it easier than going to the actual site to type what you're looking for.
  
  --
  Can I bum a sig?
43. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by ninetyninebottles · 2012-04-22 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  If it was so scientific, there wouldn't be a long drawn out court case with many reversals and appeals. Instead, we should all settle antitrust disputes using a simple computer program right?
  
  The lengthy nature of MS's prosecution had something to do with money, money donated to politicians who replaced the judges on the case with those those beholden to them. Money has always undermined the US legal system to a significant extent and there is a huge body of scientific evidence for that as well if you actually care to be informed.
  
  Every side has more than one way of looking at it after all.
  The idea that there are two, equally valid sides to anything is one of most idiotic inventions of modern entertainment news.
  True, not all views are valid. That doesn't mean that there CAN'T be two views to an issue.
  No, there can be many valid perspectives and opinions on topics. I never said otherwise. There is not, however, always two equally valid opinions on a topic. Often one side of an argument is simply uninformed or irrational. Your implication that because there are multiple ways of looking at the antitrust issue in question, that disagreeing with a logical and factually supported analysis without providing and backing for it is fine... well that is a very popular sort of opinion these days and one I find repugnant and anti-intellectual. It's right up there with, "scientific studies reproduced across the globe show A, but irrational mystics also have an opinion based on their feelings. Lets spend an hour giving them a soapbox to promote their attack on reason and science."
44. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2012-04-22 04:25 · Score: 1
  
  I'd consider it *possibly* malicious (a) if Google were holding 60+% of the market and Yandex 25% rather than the other way round, and (b) if you couldn't download/install 3 or 4 other major browsers on all major platforms in localised versions, and (c) if you couldn't change the search provider in Chrome at all.
  My point is that his argument boils down to "ZOMG Google have 5/6 of the market share needed to trigger Russian anti-competitiveness laws" as though it's the same as having 6/6 of that amount, which it is not.
  Since Yandex have more than double Google's share, and since it's not like it's impossible even now to change search providers in Chrome.ru (we're talking a couple of extra clicks, no?) and *nobody is forcing anyone to use Chrome in Russia or anywhere else*, it sounds to me more like Yandex are just whinging because they actually have to compete in what they'd like consider their very own captive market. (At least until Google have increased their market share by another 20% of its current level.)
  On a personal note, I've used Yandex, and it seems pretty crappy (do they even know what SEO spam is, and how to filter for it?), and Google actually provides better Russian-language results AFAICT. Of course, I am not a native speaker, and YMMV in any case.
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
45. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by bhagwad · 2012-04-22 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  Congratulations on fitting me into one of your predefined stereotypes of people who assume that all arguments are valid like anti evolution crazy people or climate change deniers when I didn't mean what you imply at all. Do you get some kind of moral satisfaction by finding ways by which you can find yourself superior to other people?
46. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by reub2000 · 2012-04-22 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  Opera made a better browser, and had an uphill battle trying to get users to download it.
47. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by Bonobo_Unknown · 2012-04-22 17:47 · Score: 1
  
  Does it change any if you see Google Chrome essentially as a free tool that you can download in order to use the Google search engine?
  
  --
  We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
48. Re:Chrome doesn't offer a choice? News to me by psiclops · 2012-04-22 17:53 · Score: 1
  
  Are you sticking to you views despite the scientific evidence? Check
  which scientific evidence is he apparently 'ignoring'?
  
  --
  i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
Chrome is a choice by nurb432 · 2012-04-21 06:24 · Score: 1

Don't like what it does, don't install it.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Chrome DOES offer a choce by melted · 2012-04-21 06:25 · Score: 2

When first installed, it lets you select between Yahoo, Google and Bing (so basically between Google and Bing, because Yahoo uses Bing for search).
1. Re:Chrome DOES offer a choce by icebike · 2012-04-21 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  Once installed, you can also hit the Manage Search Engines button in settings and us any of dozens. (Some of which just offload back to Google, but that's their issue).
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
2. Re:Chrome DOES offer a choce by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 07:46 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Yes. But not in Russia, which is what this story is about. Source: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=81578
Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by Zero__Kelvin · 2012-04-21 06:26 · Score: 1, Interesting

Chrome is free. It doesn't cost a penny. Nothing (not counting incompetence) stops Yandex from creating their own free browser that defaults to Yandex. And for the M$ Weenies out there who will surely object prior to getting a clue, the right to use Explorer is purchased when you buy M$ garbage.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
1. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by peppepz · 2012-04-21 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  Google is a for-profit company that competes on the ad market. It makes money out of Chrome (proof of it is the fact that they're marketing it very aggressively through paid banners). The fact that they don't sell it directly is not relevant to the fact that they could attain a dominant position in the ad market. In that case they would be in the same situation as Microsoft in the OS market, so IMHO they could be forced to offer a "choice screen" when you install Chrome, just like Microsoft were forced to do with Windows.
  Many comments here say that Chrome already offers such a screen; if it's so, then I think they're already OK.
2. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 07:20 · Score: 1
  
  There is a choice screen when you install Chrome.
3. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by just_a_monkey · 2012-04-21 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  What is the worst part?
  
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4. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by swillden · 2012-04-21 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  Many comments here say that Chrome already offers such a screen; if it's so, then I think they're already OK.
  It does. Does IE offer a choice of search engines the first time you run it?
  
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5. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-04-21 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  It does.
  
  That depends.
  (that code is gone in more recent releases, but it's been there for several months)
  
  Does IE offer a choice of search engines the first time you run it?
  It does, but it's not straightforward - it basically asks you if you want to use Bing or "something else", and it will only show the selector if you pick the latter.
6. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by peppepz · 2012-04-21 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  There's a choice screen before installing IE itself, so the problem is solved at a lowe level.
7. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by chromas · 2012-04-21 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  They're long-distance calls. Also, it clogged my toilet last week.
8. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by Savage-Rabbit · 2012-04-21 08:36 · Score: 1
  
  There is a choice screen when you install Chrome.
  I just installed Chrome with a user account created specially for the occasion. I didn't see that choice screen. All I got was a nag screen asking me to make Chrome the default browser for this user, but at least Chrome gave me the option of saying 'no'. If you click your way into the Chrome settings menu Google does offer a very basic "Manage Search Engines..." wizard that comes with four pre-installed search engines, Google, Bing, Yahoo and a local engine that specializes in my native language. You can also add other search engines on your own if you are familiar with URL variables and printf style format strings. It's simple enough for a geek but I'm betting most non geeky users (which would be 99.99% of the Google Chrome using public) would not know how to add a search engine that isn't in that list by default.
  
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9. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by blackraven14250 · 2012-04-21 10:04 · Score: 1
  
  As you search other websites, it automatically adds them to that search engine listing. Mine has CNN, Pirate Bay, Amazon, Best Buy, and a slew of others available.
10. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by zlogic · 2012-04-21 10:07 · Score: 1
  
  Chrome collects search engines in "Manage Search Engines...". All you have to do is manually open a search engine and do one search, Chrome will then add it to the list.
11. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by GIL_Dude · 2012-04-21 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  It also seems to import some from Internet Explorer. I use Chrome, Firefox, and IE. At work, we have IE by default (and I need it for SharePoint), but I use Firefox for most stuff and Chrome once in awhile. At home, I use Chrome for most stuff, Firefox once in awhile, and I had to use IE to do my taxes (for some reason some add-in in Chrome blocked Turbo Tax from working so I used IE). Since I have Chrome sync my settings - it has imported search engines in my list that are internal to my work network. They can't be used at all at home - but there are three of them in my list on this Windows 8 beta machine (as I type this in Chrome). So it definitely brings them along from machine to machine. I've never used them in Chrome at work - so it had to grab them from IE.
12. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by swillden · 2012-04-21 13:19 · Score: 1
  
  It does.
  That depends.
  (that code is gone in more recent releases, but it's been there for several months)
  Very interesting. There's no explanation in the commit that added it, nor the commit review, nor the commit or review when it was removed. It was removed just a few days after someone posted a complaint on the review of the commit that added it.
  
  Does IE offer a choice of search engines the first time you run it?
  It does, but it's not straightforward - it basically asks you if you want to use Bing or "something else", and it will only show the selector if you pick the latter.
  I'm impressed they went that far. It's still a far cry from Chrome's three big buttons, making it look like changing the search engine is some obscure customization that only the knowledgeable or the adventurous should try, but better than I expected.
  
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13. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-04-21 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  It was removed just a few days after someone posted a complaint on the review of the commit that added it.
  It was still there in October 2011 (search for "ru"), just moved around a bit. Next revision from that is the one that removed it. So it was there from May till October.
  
  I'm impressed they went that far. It's still a far cry from Chrome's three big buttons, making it look like changing the search engine is some obscure customization that only the knowledgeable or the adventurous should try, but better than I expected.
  You'd be surprised at how efficient several billion dollars in fines is at making companies behave better. No-one wants to be that next guy whom they can point at saying "he's the one that made the decision that cost us that".
14. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 22:51 · Score: 2
  
  Just like nothing stopped other browser vendors from creating their own desktop OS to compete with MSIE?
  
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15. Re:Hello, Ilya McFly !!! by swillden · 2012-04-22 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  It was removed just a few days after someone posted a complaint on the review of the commit that added it.
  It was still there in October 2011 (search for "ru"), just moved around a bit. Next revision from that is the one that removed it. So it was there from May till October.
  October is when the complaint was posted on the review, and a few days later it was removed.
  
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This man *is* a loser, period. by bogaboga · 2012-04-21 06:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Google was guilty of foul play with its Chrome browser, which picks the company's own search engine as default for users, rather than offering a choice between rivals including Yahoo, Bing and Yandex."
The gentleman Ilya Segalovich must be a very interesting individual.
I have a solution for him:
I think the time is ripe for him to unleash the Yandex browser to the world, why not?
Good luck my man!
1. Re:This man *is* a loser, period. by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-04-21 08:31 · Score: 2
  
  I think the time is ripe for him to unleash the Yandex browser to the world, why not?
  They do just that (and some more).
  But doesn't seem to be helping much.
2. Re:This man *is* a loser, period. by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 22:49 · Score: 1
  
  Persecution complex? Google specifically disabled the selection screen in Russia. Are you saying everyone is imagining this?
  
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Wrong order by Haedrian · 2012-04-21 06:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm quite sure that most people who use Google Chrome do so after finding out about it because they use Google as a search engine.
So its basically the other way around.
Moreoever, you can change the default search engine, so WOW, issue solved!
Also the only reason I ever heard of Yandex was because I saw their scraper on my website. I had never heard about it before. I guess Google is doing a GREAT job choking them.
1. Re:Wrong order by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-04-21 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  You wouldn't know about Yandex unless you're in Russia - they're a locally dominant service, much like Baidu is for China, but they focus primarily on serving that market. So all that talk should really be taken in the context of Russian market alone, not global market.
2. Re:Wrong order by Cyberax · 2012-04-21 13:20 · Score: 2
  
  "Also the only reason I ever heard of Yandex was because I saw their scraper on my website. I had never heard about it before. I guess Google is doing a GREAT job choking them."
  Yandex is the most popular search engine in the xUSSR. It understands Russian (also Ukrainian and Belorussian) languages much better than Google. Besides, Yandex directly competes with Google Maps, Google Mail and other services in Russia. And quite successfully, in fact.
  For English-speaking people Yandex is not really useful (its homepage is not even completely translated into English). Personally, I use Yandex when I need to search for something in Russian and Google all other times.
Google Chrome asks you to choose a search engine. by miffo.swe · 2012-04-21 06:41 · Score: 1

Google Chrome has always asked me to choose a search engine for as long as i can remember. Maybe they should include more search engines, but it does not default to Google Search.
http://techhamlet.com/2010/09/google-know-about-the-other-search-engines/

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Most people use the default search setting by Animats · 2012-04-21 06:44 · Score: 2

Google pays Apple $100 million a year to be the default search engine on the iPhone. Google pays Mozilla $125 million a year to be the default search engine on Firefox. Most Bing traffic comes from the default setting in Internet Explorer. Few people actually change their default search engine setting.
This has some strong implications for the search industry. First, most users don't care which search engine they're using. Second, search has negative value - search engines are an ad medium that has to pay to be seen.
1. Re:Most people use the default search setting by therealobsideus · 2012-04-21 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  Curious, does Google pay the mobile carriers to keep the Android default search option as Google? Would be counter-intuitive, to me at least, as the phone integrates so perfectly with Google services.
2. Re:Most people use the default search setting by Anthony+Mouse · 2012-04-21 07:29 · Score: 2
  
  search has negative value
  Your argument generalizes to the idea that any product for which the seller pays for shelf space has negative value. This occurs pretty much anywhere that distributor intermediaries have sufficient market power to abuse it, specifically where customers choose the distributor intermediary based on more considerations than solely which third party service (e.g. search engine) they offer.
  Kindly troll elsewhere.
3. Re:Most people use the default search setting by gl4ss · 2012-04-22 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  Curious, does Google pay the mobile carriers to keep the Android default search option as Google? Would be counter-intuitive, to me at least, as the phone integrates so perfectly with Google services.
  no, they just strong arm them with access to early android builds and the ability to put google market& other google licensed wares on them.
  oh and there was this one android maker putting bing on their phones and now google is completing the process of buying them.
  integrates perfectly? the other services integrate just as well and that layer in which they do integrate isn't really core layer and why the fuck would it be..
  
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Google and Chrome are not open! by Lost+Found · 2012-04-21 06:49 · Score: 1, Funny

I demand they set the default search engine to my new project, ButtSearch, immediately!
Re:Google Chrome asks you to choose a search engin by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-21 07:00 · Score: 4, Informative

That's because Google have restricted the ability to select your search engine in Chrome specifically if you have a Russian locale.
Doesn't Chrome let you choose after installation? by schitso · 2012-04-21 07:05 · Score: 1

It's been a long time since I installed Chrome, but I thought I recalled a window popping up letting you choose one of three search providers as default?
Re:Russians are scum by BanHammor · 2012-04-21 07:31 · Score: 1

Yeah, because who screams loudest is obviously an average individual.
Re:On a Mac, Chrome lets you choose a search provi by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-04-21 08:19 · Score: 3, Informative

It does that on all platforms on first run. But there was a time when it did not do that if you had LANG="ru".
Re:Google Chrome asks you to choose a search engin by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-04-21 08:35 · Score: 2

Note that this code is no longer present in the trunk (unless they moved it elsewhere)?
Re:Yandex has different censorship rules than goog by Haedrian · 2012-04-21 08:38 · Score: 1

You're probably american.
Yandex is a good backup for the ever-increasing list of topics which "america" fears and feels it must "censor" in order to maintain the red-white-and-blue wall.
Incorrect. I'm Maltese.
Also are you suggesting that a russian website is less prone to censorship? What an interesting role reversal.
How about... by jimboindeutchland · 2012-04-21 10:20 · Score: 1

...you build your own free web browser and set your search engine as the default? Google don't have a monopoly on the browser market. Heul doch.

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1. Re:How about... by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 22:44 · Score: 1
  
  There's an issue here, and it's one Microsoft faced as well. It doesn't matter that Yandex would make a browser just like Google does if Google is abusing its dominance in one market to take over another. Microsoft abused its OS monopoly to take over the browser market, which was a violation of competition law.
  If Google's browser is dominant in Russia, and at the same time "forces" people to use Google's search engine in Russia, that could well be an example of anti-competitive practices.
  
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Yandex ? by Pop69 · 2012-04-21 10:46 · Score: 1, Interesting

They're the ones who seem to ignore my robots.txt.

Admittedly it may be someone posing as their spider, I blocked them anyway just to be on the safe side.
Yandex may have flipped their evil bit. by dweller_below · 2012-04-21 11:44 · Score: 1, Interesting

I have seen Yandex searching wide ranges of IPs for web servers. See: https://it.wiki.usu.edu/20111007_BeEvil You may want to give some thought to blocking the Russian Google-wanna-be Yandex. They may have have flipped their 'Evil' bit. In 2012, you should not find public web servers by scanning for TCP/80 and TCP/443. If you want to find public web servers, you spider the web. Or ask Google. If you scan the internet for TCP/80 and TCP/443, you will find private management interfaces. You find printers, routers, switches, control systems, web cams, network attached storage devices, and work-flow services. You will probably find more SCADA devices than actual public web servers. The results of this search are of great interest to the hacking community. It has very limited utility for anybody else. This is not trustworthy internet behavior.
1. Re:Yandex may have flipped their evil bit. by NynexNinja · 2012-04-21 13:31 · Score: 1
  
  It's pure paranoia to think that a web (HTTP) crawler is doing something malicious by looking for open HTTP servers. That is like saying that a SMTP crawler looking for open mail relays to add to a blacklist is doing something malicious by scanning networks looking for open SMTP servers.
Still WebKit, and still Google search by tepples · 2012-04-21 17:16 · Score: 1

Even if Android doesn't come with Google Chrome per se, it comes with Android Browser, which uses the same WebKit engine as Chrome. Android Browser on my Android device also defaults to Google search.
Re:On kubuntu it asks by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 22:46 · Score: 1

It specifically leaves out this option in Russia. You know... don't do evil?

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Re:Astroturfing. by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 22:54 · Score: 1

The co-founder of Yandex in Russia is doing astroturfing for Microsoft?

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Re:It Does Play Fair by hkmwbz · 2012-04-21 23:03 · Score: 1

The search selection screen was specifically disabled for Russia.

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Fuck the god damn popups. by AdamJS · 2012-04-22 07:33 · Score: 1

I would FAR rather have my browser NOT bug me about trivial shit that I can adjust at any time.
Is that yo Ilya? by Zero__Kelvin · 2012-04-22 08:54 · Score: 1

Did you even think before you typed? Ford could develop their own tires, but no matter how great those tires were, they wouldn't compete with a car, only other tires.

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1. Re:Is that yo Ilya? by hkmwbz · 2012-04-27 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  But what if Ford was competing in the tire market, and some car manufacturer with a monopoly decided to abuse its monopoly to destroy the tire market?
  
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Chrome doesn't offer a choice of Search? by dgharmon · 2012-04-22 15:47 · Score: 1

"Ilya Segalovich, co-founder of Russia's leading search engine, Yandex .. suggested Google was guilty of foul play with its Chrome browser, which picks the company's own search engine as default for users, rather than offering a choice between rivals including Yahoo, Bing and Yandex.

That's not true, at least on my version. The default is Google, and under that a popdown menu offering `Ask Jeeves', Yahoo or Bing. Unlike ms Internet Explorer which defaults to Bing and doesn't mention Google Search.

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