First Full Observable-Universe Simulation

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First Full Observable-Universe Simulation

Posted by timothy on Sunday April 22, 2012 @10:42AM from the not-counting-the-big-blue-room dept.

First time accepted submitter slashmatteo writes "The goal of the DEUS project (Dark Energy Universe Simulation) is to investigate the imprints of dark energy on cosmic structure formation through high-performance numerical simulations. In order to do so, the project has conducted a simulation of the structuring of the entire observable universe, from the Big Bang to the present day. Thanks to the Curie super-computer, the simulation has made it possible to follow the evolution of 550 billion particles. Two other complementary runs are scheduled by the end of May. More details in the press release."

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FULL universe simulation by Narrowband · 2012-04-22 10:47 · Score: 5, Funny

When in the simulation does it reach the point where it starts simulating the Curie supercomputer simulating it?
1. Re:FULL universe simulation by zAPPzAPP · 2012-04-22 10:49 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  It's right there, in particle 4153341989.
2. Re:FULL universe simulation by GameboyRMH · 2012-04-22 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  Forget that, what happens when it starts simulating thousands of gaming machines running Crysis on Vista?
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
3. Re:FULL universe simulation by Enry · 2012-04-22 12:15 · Score: 1
  
  Don't you mean particle #39766205?
4. Re:FULL universe simulation by Sperbels · 2012-04-22 12:19 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Well I once heard that to have a real simulation of the universe, you would need to have a computer the size of the universe
  Not if we use winzip to compress it.
5. Re:FULL universe simulation by BSAtHome · 2012-04-22 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  The Thirteenth Floor, anyone?
  Recursion is a bitch.
6. Re:FULL universe simulation by c0lo · 2012-04-22 13:12 · Score: 1
  
  Forget that, what happens when it starts simulating thousands of gaming machines running Crysis on Vista?
  Bingo.
  The performance of universe rendering (a clever particle/wave algorithm) will start degrading.
  Now, our lead developer chose to degrade the rendering of the details in a proportional way with the distance to the observer (they call it Hubble constant)... Anyway, rendering the details far away will be done with lower priority, thus they'll see the results later; also, when considering the radiosity rendering part (the part that deals with wave nature of rendering), they'll see the light waves with a red-shifted frequency... (actually, we are generating them at a slower rate).
  Now, if they believe the speed of light is constant, they'll interpret the above as the universe in expansion, with the farthest region expanding faster. They'll come with the hypothesis of the dark energy to explain it and attempt to validate the hypothesis by simulating their simulated universe on a simulated Curie-supercomputer.
  They can't be helped, we coded the AI of their scientist to follow almost rational methods... they won't be able to comprehend that Macrosoft developed such a bloat as Vista.
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
7. Re:FULL universe simulation by jeffb+(2.718) · 2012-04-22 13:23 · Score: 2
  
  Could be. It's undecidable from within the simulation itself.
8. Re:FULL universe simulation by Nidi62 · 2012-04-22 13:47 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Is Jenny represented by particle #8675309?
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
9. Re:FULL universe simulation by flyingsquid · 2012-04-22 15:05 · Score: 2
  
  Look there- that one is petitioning his local school board to keep intelligent design out of the curriculum! Isn't that adorable? Let's simulate some lightning bolts and a flood and see what he does.
10. Re:FULL universe simulation by philip.paradis · 2012-04-22 15:44 · Score: 2
  
  The universe compresses so much better if you just pipe it to /dev/null, and if you want to get it back you just do the reverse.
  
  --
  Write failed: Broken pipe
11. Re:FULL universe simulation by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-22 17:10 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like you need the black hole edition. Best compression IMO
12. Re:FULL universe simulation by twdorris · 2012-04-22 18:44 · Score: 1
  
  Wow. That's bad. I mean real bad.
13. Re:FULL universe simulation by KiloByte · 2012-04-22 21:17 · Score: 1
  
  This is pretty similar to the information theory proof that if a god exist, he cannot simultaneously be omniscient and be a part of the universe. It still leaves the possibility of a god outside the universe (ie, lacking full self-awareness), like a programmer watching a simulation from outside a computer.
  
  --
  The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
14. Re:FULL universe simulation by michelcolman · 2012-04-22 22:25 · Score: 1
  
  Let's just hope that the kids who are playing our SimUniverse don't suddenly get called to supper and they click the quit bu
  We would never know anyway.
  And for all we know, they may well quit the game every day (whatever a day is for them) and then restart it afterwards to resume from the saved state. Maybe they'll even play certain parts over and over again. We would never be able to tell.
15. Re:FULL universe simulation by Nidi62 · 2012-04-22 23:39 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you, I try :)
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
16. Re:FULL universe simulation by RaceProUK · 2012-04-22 23:45 · Score: 2
  
  Well I once heard that to have a real simulation of the universe, you would need to have a computer the size of the universe
  Not if we use winzip to compress it.
  I prefer 7-Zip - smaller files when done right.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
17. Re:FULL universe simulation by jbengt · 2012-04-23 01:31 · Score: 1
  
  Did this information theory proof include rule out the possibility that the part of the universe that the omniscient god is is the whole universe?
18. Re:FULL universe simulation by durrr · 2012-04-23 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  We just do bulk simulations of everything when no one is looking at the details.
  Which means that we just need to simulate one really stupid human instead of an individual most of the time.
  We had somewhat of a crisis when genius scientists were around and people wanted to observe the universe and every second required several clock cycles. We solved that with a really nice optimization patch; all the visionaries and scientific geniuses died of pancreatic cancer, entertainment media got a lot better and most people got a lot more stupid, nowadays we do several years per cycle as opposed to just a few days.
  It almost got to the point where we had to simulate actual planetary bodies and celestial mechanics instead of just displaying a high-resolution animated skybox. Now of course if you start to measure it doesn't work out properly but it's not like anyone will have funding for doing anything accurate enough to blow our cover anytime soon.
  Meanwhile, we're watching you masturbate.
  Sincerely.
  The God Commitee.
19. Re:FULL universe simulation by Sam+Nitzberg · 2012-04-23 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  It's just going to come back with 42 anyway...
20. Re:FULL universe simulation by Nimey · 2012-04-23 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  /thread
  
  --
  Hail Eris, full of mischief...
  
  E pluribus sanguinem
21. Re:FULL universe simulation by Black+Parrot · 2012-04-23 17:08 · Score: 1
  
  Well I once heard that to have a real simulation of the universe, you would need to have a computer the size of the universe. So this is more a rough simulation of the the visible Galaxies.
  All models are simpler than the thing being modeled.
  However, you can think of the universe as a gigantic computer that is running a program to... compute its future states?
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I hope it isn't labeled by IndustrialComplex · 2012-04-22 10:47 · Score: 5, Funny

All we need is a pointer to Earth that says 'You are here.' and it's game over for us all!

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1. Re:I hope it isn't labeled by Sduic · 2012-04-22 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  It's all right, they used éclair instead of fairy cake.
  
  --
  *this space intentionally left blank
  "One of the four pointers saying 'come and see', and I saw, and beheld a white
DEUS... by Nrrqshrr · 2012-04-22 10:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

I didn't RTFA, but DEUS sounds like the perfect name for this project.
1. Re:DEUS... by thomst · 2012-04-22 18:18 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Nrrqshrr noted:
  
  I didn't RTFA, but DEUS sounds like the perfect name for this project.
  In fact, running on the Curie supercomputer makes it a DEUS ex machina!
  
  --
  Check out my novel.
2. Re:DEUS... by Black+Parrot · 2012-04-23 17:11 · Score: 1
  
  I didn't RTFA, but DEUS sounds like the perfect name for this project.
  DEMIURGE would have been better.
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Has someone asked it... by stox · 2012-04-22 10:52 · Score: 2

if there was a way to reduce entropy in the Universe yet?

--
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
1. Re:Has someone asked it... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-22 11:05 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Insufficient data for a meaningful answer
2. Re:Has someone asked it... by Sduic · 2012-04-22 11:19 · Score: 3
  
  I hear that Maxwell's got someone on it.
  
  --
  *this space intentionally left blank
  "One of the four pointers saying 'come and see', and I saw, and beheld a white
3. Re:Has someone asked it... by History's+Coming+To · 2012-04-22 11:27 · Score: 2
  
  +1 Demonic.
  
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4. Re:Has someone asked it... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-22 11:31 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  For all that don't know it,
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question
5. Re:Has someone asked it... by Genda · 2012-04-22 12:42 · Score: 2
  
  Only if parent adds wry comment by Richard Feynman...
6. Re:Has someone asked it... by scottrocket · 2012-04-22 13:16 · Score: 2
  
  Insufficient data for a meaningful answer
  It's ironic that AC should post that response...
7. Re:Has someone asked it... by michelcolman · 2012-04-22 22:40 · Score: 2
  
  And then have zillions of forks creating a true multiverse?
8. Re:Has someone asked it... by mhajicek · 2012-04-23 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  Yes: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27625/
9. Re:Has someone asked it... by Black+Parrot · 2012-04-23 17:13 · Score: 1
  
  if there was a way to reduce entropy in the Universe yet?
  Yes, put it in the fridge.
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
10. Re:Has someone asked it... by eriqk · 2012-04-24 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  I think I can safely say that no one would really understand that comment.
The Multiverse Apocolapse by NetFusion · 2012-04-22 10:55 · Score: 2

Gradually the multiverse calculations our universe spawns will become more complex and longer lived until the secret of a self sustaining calculation that uses the very fabric of space time as its compuational engine is found and grows rapidly with inflation to consume our universe and give birth to new ones. /tin foil
Only 550 billion particles? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-22 10:59 · Score: 5, Informative

From Wikipedia's page "Galaxy":
"There are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 × 1011) galaxies in the observable universe."
550 billion particles to simulate the observable universe means just over three particles per galaxy. I don't know exactly what they're doing but it doesn't sound like much of a simulation..?
1. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-04-22 11:15 · Score: 1
  
  It's a simulation; the map is not the territory.
2. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by Fluffeh · 2012-04-22 11:16 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  550 billion particles to simulate the observable universe means just over three particles per galaxy. I don't know exactly what they're doing but it doesn't sound like much of a simulation..?
  That really depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you are not interested in the interactions going on inside each galaxy, but rather the interactions between galaxies themselves as well as things like filaments and clusters and or superclusters, this is more than enough particles to use. In fact, if each particle is assumed to be a galaxy, then the surplus may well have been introduced to see failed galaxies or to find where initial seeds may not have turned into fully fledged galaxies. They may also account for a small portion of the vast numbers of dwarf galaxies to see how these interact with larger objects.
  
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3. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by gstrickler · 2012-04-22 12:37 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not impressed. Now, when they can run a simulation with more particles than the atoms in the computer, I'll be impressed. Heck, I'll make it easy, when they run a simulation more particles than transistors in their CPUs, I'll be impressed. Let's see, 92,000 CPUs @ ~ 2B/cpu = ~184T. Now that's a simulation.
  
  --
  make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
4. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by doshell · 2012-04-22 13:17 · Score: 1
  
  FWIW, "more particles than the atoms in the computer" would be impossible with current technology since (presumably) you'd need to store at least one bit of state per particle, and current computers need more than an atom to store a single bit.
  
  --
  Score: i, Imaginary
5. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by Danny+Rathjens · 2012-04-22 14:06 · Score: 2
  
  http://www.deus-consortium.org/a-propos/dark-energy-universe-simulation-full-universe-run/ says each particle has the mass of the Milky Way.
6. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by jovius · 2012-04-22 17:57 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps the most important question is that what are we doing with the particles/waves/quantum states that we've got in our disposal.
  I mean I'm able to run a perfect simulation by crunching it with my 4 core CPU: the crunching of a CPU with an object modeled from metal and wood.
7. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by michelcolman · 2012-04-22 22:48 · Score: 1
  
  Next thing you know, they'll come up with "Universal Warming" and create a new tax on space ships...
8. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by tehcyder · 2012-04-23 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  It's a simulation; the map is not the territory.
  No, but if you simplify a map too much it becomes useless. For example if you draw a big circle on a piece of paper and label it "the world", it's not going to help you circumnavigate the globe, although it's not actually wrong.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
9. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by AC-x · 2012-04-23 01:31 · Score: 1
  
  As another comparison an average grain of salt contains around 1.2x10^18 atoms verses this simulation's 5.5x10^11 particles. (source)
10. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by doshell · 2012-04-23 05:36 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed, you did not. Blame it on the ever decreasing quality of Slashdot comments; these days, some people here actually mean stuff like that when they say it. I do apologise for misjudging your intelligence.
  
  --
  Score: i, Imaginary
11. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by gstrickler · 2012-04-23 05:59 · Score: 1
  
  I actually had a concern as I typed it that including the second sentence would detract from the sarcasm, guess I should have left it off.
  Great sig.
  
  --
  make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
12. Re:Only 550 billion particles? by Black+Parrot · 2012-04-23 17:15 · Score: 1
  
  FWIW, "more particles than the atoms in the computer" would be impossible with current technology since (presumably) you'd need to store at least one bit of state per particle, and current computers need more than an atom to store a single bit.
  All you need is two bits. Map all the ones in your data to one location and all the zeros to the other.
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Disappointed. by Scorch_Mechanic · 2012-04-22 11:11 · Score: 1

I was lead to believe there would be faerie cake.

--
You should turn signatures off.
Recursion by Swampash · 2012-04-22 12:18 · Score: 1

Does the simulated universe contain intelligent lifeforms who have built universe-simulating supercomputers?
1. Re:Recursion by jim_deane · 2012-04-22 13:24 · Score: 1
  
  Why not? This one does.
2. Re:Recursion by user+flynn · 2012-04-22 17:06 · Score: 1
  
  Fortunately the universe is simulated on windo..... Wow, I didn't know the last thing I saw would be white writing on a blue background.
  In other news. I kind of doubt these muckabouts considered running the simulation with 4+ dimensional dark matter/energy.
  It's like they don't even know that non-3d matter cannot interact directly with 3d matter except through gravitation! Ric Romero reporting...
  
  --
  In the distance you hear an ominous moo.
3. Re:Recursion by Black+Parrot · 2012-04-23 17:18 · Score: 1
  
  Does the simulated universe contain intelligent lifeforms who have built universe-simulating supercomputers?
  Current replies:
  
  No why should it? This one dosnt either
  
  Why not? This one does.
  I suppose that covers all the bases.
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
And when it returns a response of... by cranky_chemist · 2012-04-22 13:52 · Score: 1

And when it returns a response of "42," Douglas Adams will die laughing...
no, wait...
I believe it is "Now" by Brad1138 · 2012-04-22 14:13 · Score: 3, Funny

(obligatory Space Balls reference)
You're looking at now, sir. Everything that happens now is happening now.
What happened to then?
We passed then.
When?
Just now. We're at now now.
Go back to then.
When?
Now!
Now?
Now!
I can't.
Why?
We missed it.
When?
Just now.
When will then be now?
Soon.

--
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Nice Machine by kramulous · 2012-04-22 18:04 · Score: 4, Interesting

Interesting to note that they didn't bother with too many gpu nodes. Reflects what we see with our users despite the abundance of marketing material from Nvidia.
5040 'standard' compute nodes: dual E5-2680 processors; 64GB RAM
360 'bulk' compute nodes: quad EX-X7560; 128GB RAM
144 GPU nodes: dual M2050
Another 90 'super' nodes on order: 128core, 512GB RAM
Cores: 103,680
GPUs: 288
Almost token GPU offering. These guys must do real work on it.

--
.
1. Re:Nice Machine by burning-toast · 2012-04-22 19:21 · Score: 1
  
  Unless of course you count the 896 GPU cores per GPU node ( 448 cores per card, x2 per box, x144 boxes, for a cool 129,024 GPU cores).
  Yeah, token GPU work... Seems to me like they appropriately sized the compute capabilities of what could be accellerated by cuda rather appropriately considering it's only a specific set of operations which can be accelerated by it in the first place.
  Take a look at what gets accelerated by BOINC projects on NVIDIA / ATI GPU cores. Some projects cannot be sped up at all by CUDA or OpenCL, others like PrimeGrid (some sub-projects) are accelerated heavily by it (20x+ speedup over CPU IIRC). It all depends on the specific work-load involved and the family of cards chosen.
  - Toast
2. Re:Nice Machine by kramulous · 2012-04-22 22:33 · Score: 2
  
  Sure. You can quote whatever numbers you like.
  CPU Cores: 103, 680
  GPU Cores: 129,024
  Total machine is 2PetaFlop and the GPUs contribute less than 10% of that.
  Look, I realise that for the right job, the GPU is superior. But it is not anywhere near what we are being led to believe (again, according to the marketing material). I sure the people commissioning this machine knew what they were doing and what they needed was raw x86_64 grunt.
  I'm not interested in a single program's performance on the GPU. I'm interested in the average use case. Specific cases will always require specific hardware. Even then, I don't believe it until I see the source code of each. Techniques people use on the GPU are somehow not used when it comes to the CPU.
  GPUs: "We must use single stride arrays."
  CPUs: "We must use templated codes where memory is fragmented on the heap cause stl performs error checks."
  I'm sick of it man. Sick of it :-)
  
  --
  .
Re:50 billion is like nothing by troon · 2012-04-22 18:54 · Score: 1

You're assuming they're using particles to represent atoms / quarks / whatever, in which case they'd be way short of simulating a speck of dust.
They're using a particle to represent a galaxy, which is a slightly lower resolution but still a valid simulation.

--
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So this is where DEUS begins... by Raved+Thrad · 2012-04-22 20:20 · Score: 1

...and now I'm on the lookout for a girl with purple hair named Miang.

--
Life, ultimately, boils down to the Four Fs: Fighting, Fleeing, Feeding, and Mating.
Re:Sounds a bit small... by KingofSpades · 2012-04-22 20:23 · Score: 2

The number of particles is not relevant.
You can do a one billion simulation of a single galaxy or of the whole universe. The purpose is different.
In this respect, a particle can represent a single star in one galaxy or a single galaxy in the universe. Large scale structures in the universe don't depend on the exact location of each star in each galaxy.
Re:First simulate a paperclip... by KingofSpades · 2012-04-22 20:27 · Score: 1

And that's not enough... if you want to simulate each quark individually (after all, you wrote "you take the number of particles").
If one of those particles is inside my body by Anonymousslashdot · 2012-04-22 21:34 · Score: 1

then they probably know where I'll be tommorow (just don't tell my girlfriend)
Is this real science? by TheMathemagician · 2012-04-22 21:46 · Score: 1

Is any genuine science being done here? Running simulations to model, say, the weather or ocean currents makes sense. You can calibrate them to past data and use them predictively. How does a simulation of the "universe" tell you anything?
1. Re:Is this real science? by Black+Parrot · 2012-04-23 17:23 · Score: 1
  
  Is any genuine science being done here? Running simulations to model, say, the weather or ocean currents makes sense. You can calibrate them to past data and use them predictively. How does a simulation of the "universe" tell you anything?
  Take the starting state and mechanisms suggested by theory, run it, compare the result to the actual universe now.
  
  --
  Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
let's say simulation produced a result by mapkinase · 2012-04-22 23:00 · Score: 1

How are they going to verify it experimentally?

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Re:Sounds a bit small... by jbengt · 2012-04-23 01:49 · Score: 1

Large scale structures in the universe don't depend on the exact location of each star in each galaxy.
Let's do a simulation to check your hypothesis! We'll only need a few billion more DEUSs.
I call BS by ILongForDarkness · 2012-04-23 05:28 · Score: 1

There are 3.34E22 molecules of H20 in one gram of water. That is a hundred billion or so times more particles that are in this simulation. Astro calcs have just been including more and more particles since the first one with 2 interacting particles. The number of (stars/solar systems/galaxies/clusters/super clusters etc) that each of those particles is supposed to represent has just been getting smaller as we have faster and faster computers.
Re:First simulate a paperclip... by Renraku · 2012-04-23 10:17 · Score: 1

We have a pretty good grasp on the physics of a paperclip, even at the subatomic level. Since we know most of the rules, we can simplify the interactions. Eventually this kind of simulation the article talks about will be able to be run on a desktop computer once we can 'compress' it enough.

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Re:50 billion is like nothing by __aaltlg1547 · 2012-04-23 14:13 · Score: 1

So intergalactic space is modeled as what, completely empty? And dark matter and dark energy are modeled as what?
But maybe more interesting than that is how do you model the boundary conditions? What's beyond the end of simulated space and how do you model that? How do you model the fact that the universe has no fixed frame of reference?